Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Jon Gratz
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000162
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00:22 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:25 This is a program that's designed 00:26 to bring you breaking news, information 00:29 and explanatory discussion about religious liberty 00:33 events in the United States and around the world. 00:35 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine 00:38 and the guest on this program is, Dr. John Graz. 00:42 Hi, Lincoln. Welcome, John. 00:43 Very pleased to be with you, Lincoln. 00:45 Every time I have you on this program 00:47 which has been several times before, 00:48 I hesitate on how to introduce you, 00:50 because you have too many titles to say quickly, 00:52 but you are the, the Director for this world's 00:54 headquarters of the Seventh Adventist Church 00:56 for Religious Liberty. 00:58 And public affairs. And public affairs and-- 01:00 as well as that the. Secretary General--Secretary 01:03 International Religiously Liberty Association, 01:06 that's they are my, my two main hats. 01:09 Now one of your associates has, has almost a full time 01:14 responsibility to interact with the United Nation I know. 01:17 United Nation yes, but now it's a Dr. Ganune Diop. 01:20 And I, when I think about that, I think about sort of-- 01:22 universal absolutes that they're trying 01:24 to present and, and I, I think of history and, and on law, 01:29 you know, people refer back to so long and his, 01:31 his rulership many year ago. 01:35 Yeah, yeah. Think about the laws of Hammurabi, 01:37 the code of Hammurabi, the-- Magna Carta, the Magna Carta. 01:42 The Ten Commandments of course. 01:44 Ten Commandments. Ten Commandments 01:45 Absolutely. Which are really the basic-- 01:47 Yeah, and when you talk about the United States, 01:49 you think about the constitution 01:51 and the legal absolutes that is brought down. 01:54 But when I think about the United Nations, 01:57 I don't think about its charter per say. 01:59 I'm talking about something 02:01 called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights-- 02:04 Human Rights, I think that is, is the shining center peace 02:07 of what they are trying to project on the world. 02:09 Yeah, and-- of course you know, 02:10 lot of people in America doesn't know that they even 02:13 don't know what is the United Nation, 02:15 but they have to remember that it was really created 02:18 under the influence of the American, Wilson, 02:22 and Ileana Wilson was really the one who worked almost as a, 02:28 you know, leader of the-- commission which produced-- 02:31 Even, Ileana Roosevelt. 02:32 Ileana Roosevelt, Wilson was before. 02:35 I think the Wilson was a-- historical slip of the tongue, 02:39 because I connect the United Nations 02:41 to the League of Nations. 02:42 Yeah, which was President Wilson, 02:44 that was his dream to unite the world. 02:47 And Lincoln, if you go to Geneva, 02:49 you have still, you know, a big building 02:51 which is called the Palais Wilson well, 02:54 you know, you have the committee of human rights, 02:58 United Nation Committee of Human Rights. 03:01 And I sometime think, President Wilson 03:03 got a bad rap, because just because 03:05 the League of Nations didn't survive, 03:07 I don't think its proof that his whole efforts 03:09 were frustrated, because the United Nations 03:11 is the natural outgrowth to that type of thinking. 03:14 And the idea came after the Second World War. 03:16 Absolutely. And specially because, you know, 03:18 when people saw the, the result of such a war 03:22 that 100 million people were killed between the war 03:25 and during the war and that was, you know, 03:28 they said that we have to do something, 03:29 we cannot just let things going like 03:32 that centuries after centuries. 03:34 Well there were too many million, 03:35 this talk still of six million Jews killed in by Germany, 03:39 but I know they were 20 million Russians 03:41 killed in the war, correctly. 03:43 In the war and between the war, 20 more millions-- 03:45 So you add up all of the casualties civilian 03:48 and military of World War Two, 03:50 it's an immense amount and so-- 03:51 And also, you know, this-- wiliness to destroy people like 03:55 the Jew people just because they were different. 03:57 They say we have to, to think differently, 04:00 we have to accept the different you know, 04:03 we accept, we have to accept that people 04:05 can have all, I know their religion 04:08 and not to persecute them because they are different. 04:11 Yeah, I also in the mindset that let this establish 04:15 with the United Nations. 04:17 I've never read this, but I did use this for my 04:19 study of history that even the victory, 04:22 the victors the United States and its allies, 04:24 I think were so good by what they had done. 04:27 Yeah. I think the United States 04:29 dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki 04:32 at good military Russian 04:34 all at the time but it was shocking. 04:35 Yeah. That's why now the US leads 04:37 the way in nonproliferation of nuclear weapons. 04:41 I think the carpet bombing of Germany, 04:43 where they were bombing civilians. 04:45 At the end of it, I thought we can't, 04:47 can't let this happen-- We cannot do that yet, 04:49 we cannot do it any more, yeah. 04:51 It wasn't that President Lincoln 04:53 refer to our better angels, they wanted to, 04:56 to pull men kind of back and it wasn't 04:58 the religious movement, but in the humanisticway 05:03 draw people and countries up to better behavior. 05:05 Yeah, but you know, they were also influenced by Christian, 05:09 we can say about by the gospel in some ways. 05:12 I think-- Specially their leaders, you know, they, 05:15 they you had these concept behind. 05:17 Well, gospel is one thing, but the Biblical concept 05:20 is there to this day, is it around the side, 05:23 there's a statue of a man in forging with metal and it says, 05:29 they shall beat their swords into plowshares, 05:31 you know, that text is from Ezekiel. 05:33 Yeah, I think its. Its an-- Old Testament text that it, 05:36 its really referring to the kingdom of God, 05:38 but where the ways of men and war in that way you see which-- 05:41 Yeah, it became a very important 05:42 text for the United Nations. 05:44 That will change the, the weapons of war 05:46 into weapons of production. 05:47 That was a dream yeah, 05:48 and I think that we have to understand 05:51 that the wiliness of people trying to say, 05:54 you know, instead to fight each other, 05:56 we have to talk each other. 05:58 And if we have a problem, 06:00 lets talk and try to find the best way, 06:02 that was really at the origin and, 06:05 and we have this is the positive side 06:07 and the United Nation also in spite of many, many 06:10 weaknesses, you know, its the only place 06:12 in the world were you can talk openly about human right 06:16 without being arrested, were you can talk about 06:19 religious freedom, you know, every meeting 06:21 of the Universal of the Council 06:23 of Human Right in Geneva, 06:26 you have an item about religious freedom. 06:29 You have people who are sending different countries 06:32 to monitor the state of religious freedom 06:35 and they comeback and, Lincoln, 06:37 even more we as association and as a church, 06:42 we can speak before you know, 06:44 all the representative of the government of the world-- 06:47 We have access, we have three minutes 06:49 on every item, it means we can give the position 06:52 of the Adventist Church and-- we can also give the position 06:55 of the international religious liberty association, 06:59 now just think about you know, 07:01 someone who can speak toward all the government 07:04 of the world its almost prophetic. 07:06 Absolutely. You can say this is as an Adventist, 07:10 this is what we believe. 07:11 And, and you're underscoring in reminding us 07:13 of this what I put in the 2012 promotional campaign 07:18 for Liberty magazine that goes out mostly 07:20 to our own church members, but we've done it under 07:22 the title this year of a world of opportunity 07:26 and United Nations is the world forum 07:28 and I think there is open doors for us to talk about 07:31 freedom as never before even though and by many markers 07:35 you know, its in trouble in lots of the world but, 07:38 but they open this for discussion 07:39 as there is never before. 07:40 It is fabulous. And for church people I accept-- 07:43 And then what happen you know, 07:44 you will receive my associate Dr. Diope, 07:47 will tell you the story when you give a speech 07:50 you have three minutes, very most of the time after 07:52 you have people from different government 07:54 they come and they ask you text 07:56 and you start to talk with them. 07:58 When you have a problem with the church you know, 08:01 like we had in some countries 08:03 you go to the human right commission 08:05 you meet the ambassador of these countries 08:08 and this is the fabulous place to talk about 08:10 religious freedom, you know, you don't need them 08:13 in the economic form were they don't care-- 08:15 That's their business, they get in first, yeah. 08:17 You need them in a place where people are talking about 08:20 defending and promoting human right 08:21 and you sit with them, there is a problem 08:23 in your country we're from minority. 08:25 And of course they are more open 08:27 that if you met them, if you had met them somewhere else, 08:30 it means there is a fabulous opportunity to, 08:34 to be there and to work to defend freedom there. 08:37 Now even as you're talking about this, 08:39 it hit me that many people may not quite understand 08:42 what you threw in. 08:43 United Nations, those American particularly, 08:47 you still remember it and see the pictures 08:50 and you open up that, iconic building 08:52 next to the Hudson River. 08:53 Yeah. But we have enough as you were mentioning Geneva-- 08:57 Geneva yes, everything which is connected 09:00 with human rights is in Geneva, 09:02 this is why for us Geneva is very important. 09:04 So it still the United Nations but in Geneva, Switzerland, 09:07 and the human rights element there enough 09:10 to drive them past and around, there's quite a compound. 09:12 Yeah. It's a huge presence, 09:13 its not just did a little quiet corner. 09:15 No, that's the big, the big building. 09:18 Switzerland was and-- still is it in many ways 09:21 the diplomatic center of world activities. 09:24 Yeah, exactly. So New York is were the headquarter is, 09:28 but Geneva, Switzerland, is very important. 09:29 Yeah, and you know, the decision which have been 09:31 which will be taken in Geneva, 09:34 of course brought to New York and presented before the-- 09:39 General assembly. General assembly and vote it, 09:41 but the work is done about human right in Geneva. 09:44 Yeah, it is not just ask they can talk there 09:50 I don't think many people who watch the news 09:52 quite understand when how many, it gets up 09:54 in the General Assembly 09:55 or some years ago I remember for their Fidel Castro when, 09:58 when the USA recently invaded this country or tried to, 10:03 still there is a, there is a neutral forum where they, 10:05 the leaders can travel and say there piece. 10:08 Exactly. It's a wonderful testament 10:10 to the, the, the, the-- yearning toward 10:12 in open free society in the world. 10:14 You know, these people came also to Geneva 10:16 to the human right council and of course you know, 10:19 after we have the right to react 10:21 and we have the right to say, you know the United Nation 10:24 is well known for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. 10:27 Yes. Or Universal Declaration of Human Right 10:30 article 18 say that everyone has the right of freedom 10:34 and the freedom of religion and the thought everyone. 10:39 Its an incredible statement, now you have a book 10:41 that you've written on issues of faith and freedom. 10:44 Yeah. And I know there is a chapter 10:46 in there about this Universal Declaration. 10:48 Yeah, I can read if you want-- 10:49 Can you read the declaration or b this article? 10:51 I think that's so important-- 10:53 Its really one of our guiding principles apart 10:55 from Biblical truth and Revelation 10:58 as far as seeing its very, very simple directions its clear-- 11:01 Article 18 it states, everyone 11:02 has the right to freedom of thought, 11:04 conscience and religion, everyone you know, 11:07 they don't say every family, or every group, 11:10 or every tribe, everyone individual, 11:12 and this right includes freedom to change, 11:18 which is so important you know,-- 11:20 to change his religion or believe, 11:22 you are free to change if you want and freedom either alone 11:26 or in community with others in public or private 11:30 to manifest his religion or believe in teaching, 11:35 practice, worship and observant you know, 11:39 there're right to preach the Gospel, 11:41 there're right to share what you believe 11:43 and these right of course today is very challenge, 11:45 because in many countries, several more and more 11:47 countries you know, the government 11:49 or the religious institutions say-- 11:51 Don't allow you to change your identity. 11:53 No you have no right to change, 11:54 or you have no right to share what you believe 11:57 in the public setting you have to stay into 12:00 your private church or private group. 12:02 Well even as you say that a country that I haven't 12:04 spoken of on this program for long time, 12:06 several years ago you and I were in Laos. 12:08 Yeah. Cambodia and there is a apparent freedom 12:11 of worship we went to the, to the Adventist Church 12:13 and others, but on the Sabbath, 12:15 we've sympathy Sabbath we went to the Adventist Church 12:17 and they worship like we do anywhere in this country 12:19 or most western countries. 12:22 But we found out that if you shared a Bible 12:25 track or Bible witness out in the villages, 12:27 you'll almost certainly be arrest-- 12:29 That's illegal. Yeah. And-- You can be arrested. 12:32 As much as 25 years in jail. 12:34 Yeah, O, yeah, that's incredible, 12:35 there are many countries like that around the world 12:37 and you know, which is important 12:39 is to have an official document. 12:41 It means when we are defending religious freedom 12:44 the universal declaration of human right, 12:46 but there are also many over they're article. 12:49 Yeah. It's on the outside. Let's talk about some of those 12:51 after the break. We need to take 12:53 a quick break and we'll be right back. 13:03 One hundred years, a long time to do anything, 13:07 much less publish a magazine, but this year "Liberty," 13:10 the Seventh-day Adventist voice of religious freedom 13:13 celebrates 100 years of doing what it does best, collecting, 13:18 analyzing, and reporting 13:19 the ebb and flow of religious expression around the world. 13:23 Issue after issue, Liberty has taken 13:26 on the tough assignments. 13:27 Tracking down threats to religious freedom and exposing 13:30 the work of the devil in every corner of the globe. 13:33 Governmental interference, personal attacks, 13:36 corporate assaults, even religious freedom issues 13:38 sequestered within the Church community 13:40 itself have been clearly and honestly exposed. 13:44 Liberty exists for one purpose, 13:46 to help God's people maintain that all important separation 13:50 of church and state while recognizing the dangers 13:53 inherent in such a struggle. 13:55 During the past century, 13:56 Liberty has experienced challenges of it's own, 13:59 but it remains on the job. 14:01 Thanks to the inspired leadership of a long line 14:04 of dedicated Adventist editors, three of whom represent 14:07 almost half of the publications' existence 14:09 and the foresight of a little woman from New England. 14:12 One hundred years of struggle, 100 years of victories, 14:17 religious freedom isn't just about political machines 14:20 and cultural prejudices. 14:21 It's about people fighting for the right to serve the God 14:26 they love as their hearts and the Holy Spirit dictate. 14:29 Thanks to the prayers and generous support 14:32 of Seventh-day Adventists everywhere. 14:34 Liberty will continue to accomplish its work 14:36 of providing timely information, 14:38 spirit filled inspiration, and heaven sent encouragement 14:42 to all who long to live and work in a world bound 14:46 together by the God ordained bonds of religious freedom. 15:00 Welcome back to The Liberty Insider, 15:02 before the break with guest Dr. John Graz. 15:05 We were talking about something 15:07 that his as they say his accent portrays him, 15:09 you are Swiss, aren't you? 15:11 Yeah. And, and that's the layer of the Swiss-- 15:14 I have two passports Swiss and French. 15:16 Well, the Swiss and the French language 15:18 that's the language of diplomacy. 15:20 Yeah. And I know you're very diplomatic. 15:23 I'll try. But out of your office, 15:25 you have an associate that work directly 15:27 with the United Nations-- 15:28 The United Nations, I used to do this work to it mean I-- 15:31 Oh, I know you used to work with them, of course. 15:32 Time to time I go to Geneva and-- 15:34 So Geneva and New York. 15:36 So we gotten to talking about 15:39 the Universal Declaration of Religious Freedom. 15:42 Yeah, this is what I said, Lincoln, 15:44 you know, when you have this document 15:45 because you have the universal 15:46 which is really the basic document. 15:48 We always talk about 15:50 the Universal Declaration of Human Right 15:52 and you can say it you know, when you are persecuting, 15:55 discriminating a group, because he has, 15:58 or they have another religion, 16:00 it's a no position to one of the foundation-- 16:04 Absolutely. Of the United Nation, 16:05 you are strong you know, 16:07 it means the light is on your side. 16:10 Those who are not following wind that 16:11 are on the other side, on the wrong side. 16:14 Actually it seem lightly countries that find himself 16:16 out of step with the thinking of the United Nations, 16:20 I don't condemn this, but they can even be 16:22 severe military action the whole world's 16:24 gangs up on a country that defies these new norms-- 16:27 And it's so true that you know, 16:29 many countries today are challenging 16:32 the concept of human rights 16:34 and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. 16:36 But they're using, doing intellectually, 16:37 aren't they? It's not the flow of history. 16:40 No, no, no but they do that still and they would like 16:42 to change, because they say that its a western philosophy, 16:46 it has nothing to do with us because its a individual right, 16:49 it means we recognize 16:51 with the Universal Declaration of Human Right 16:53 that every individuals, everyone you know, 16:57 as I said its not every family, or every tribe, 17:00 or every country, everyone. 17:02 It meant you have the right as individual 17:05 to make your own choice and that's make, 17:08 it makes a big problem in many places around the world. 17:11 Absolutely. Because people don't expect 17:13 that you change, you have to follow the tradition. 17:15 And there are challenges to this and we'd had 17:17 a program on it in the past but if the United Nations 17:20 I think within the last year there was an effort lead 17:22 by several less than open in this religious sense 17:29 open states where they wanted some sort 17:32 of United Nations declaration against the deformation 17:35 of religion that would serve to restrict 17:37 your religious statement- 17:38 Yeah, its still, still on they would like to control 17:41 what you are saying about any kind of religion, 17:44 it means you cannot speak freely, openly about religion, 17:48 you have to follow some rules. 17:49 And that's really against freedom of expression. 17:52 Absolutely. And when we talk about religious freedom, 17:54 we talk about the freedom of association. 17:57 There is no religious freedom, 17:59 there is no freedom of association. 18:01 If there is no religious freedom, 18:03 there is no freedom of expression, 18:05 it means really it's a core-- 18:07 Again, we can't untangle these rights, 18:08 they're all sort of intermix. 18:09 Exactly, this is why you know in, in commentary 18:12 of the universal declaration and after in I know 18:16 there are treaty which is-- called international convenient 18:19 on political and civil and political right 18:22 in the commentary it is said that religious freedom 18:25 should not be changed even in case of emergency. 18:28 It means its so important religious freedom 18:31 that even if you have the big crisis in the country, 18:35 you should not change religious freedom. 18:37 That's, that's worth reminding many civil government 18:39 even in the-- United States since 9/11. 18:41 I've seen a tendency with the panic of the moment 18:44 to sort of set aside some very real freedom. 18:47 And in the United States, 18:48 I've often as I traveled around reminded 18:51 them that in the civil war the Supreme Court 18:53 say something very similar in, 18:55 in a case of detainment and the Supreme Court 19:00 got involved and they said the constitution 19:02 has in itself everything necessary to defend liberties 19:06 even in times of stress and to take them away 19:09 at a time of stress they say is to invite despotism. 19:12 Yeah. You know, it's a clear cut. 19:15 Maybe people may think that its you know, 19:18 its technical and sort but not, you know, its our right. 19:22 Absolutely. Its in the constitution, 19:24 its in the Universal Declaration of Human Right, 19:27 it is in many Treaties of the United Nation. 19:30 It means when you are defending and asking 19:32 for religious freedom you are on your right that, 19:36 that's makes a lot of difference, 19:38 when we are visiting countries where people are persecuted, 19:41 we are not the guilty side, they are the guilty side. 19:44 Absolutely. And he makes, you don't come just to say, 19:46 okay, please I beg you, could you respect this right-- 19:49 Right, honor it. You say hey, you remember 19:51 if you sign the document-- 19:53 How far as most Christians feeling 19:54 we have the moral arm of the universe, 20:00 Martin Luther King said on aside 20:02 but we have international law, 20:03 but at last night I read through again 20:06 on the universal declaration is something struck me, 20:08 I guess I knew it but to see it written at in full, 20:10 and its a lot more than article what 18, isn't it? 20:13 Yeah, 30 article I guess. But its 18 is the-- 20:17 It is the religious freedom. 20:19 Religious freedom, but there are many of them, 20:20 but as I read through them. 20:22 To me its amazingly parallel 20:25 to the Declaration of Independence 20:27 and the US Constitution with its Bill of Rights 20:29 in particular, so you know, those people take quick shots 20:33 at the UN has its problems, but I think its ideal 20:37 that its adopted a very high and loadable. 20:40 Yeah. And as long as it can maintain this, 20:42 I think there is some hope for mankind 20:44 and for the freedom of religion and expression. 20:47 This is why you know, when people say 20:48 that you that's a just a way the western countries 20:51 are using to interfere in other country, 20:55 that's not true because it took 1000 years 20:57 in the western country to get this right. 20:59 You know look at the Middle Age or during the Roman time, 21:03 you did not have this right, 21:05 this kind of right was not recognized. 21:07 It means people died for this right and it took a long, 21:11 a long, a long series of persecution, 21:14 battles to at the end have this right and this right 21:18 is still very fragile, it means if we say that, 21:21 oh, that's a natural, one day we will loose, 21:24 one day we will loose our freedom. 21:26 And if we do nothing to protect 21:29 and to defend our religious freedom, 21:31 we in fact we don't deserve to have freedom. 21:35 Well, I think it was James Madison 21:37 said that its right to take alarm 21:39 at the first in position on our liberties, 21:42 so its not that the first time something happens 21:45 that the full extent of the problem is evident, 21:47 but to wait until that's really happened, 21:51 its sometimes too late, so we should be very jealous, 21:53 I think to protect civil liberties 21:56 particularly religious liberty, 21:58 since it has a transcending quality, doesn't it? 22:00 You're dealing with, with, with universal absolutes 22:03 with divine imperatives. 22:06 Yeah, and, and when you believe that you know, 22:08 you are the creator of God, God created us-- 22:11 A divine imperative. 22:12 Yeah, and the God create us with the, 22:14 the faculty and to choose His fabulous possibility 22:19 to decide according to your conscience and it means 22:22 that's a gift from God also for us as a believer. 22:25 We believe that religious freedom 22:27 is not the just a right, it's a far beyond that, 22:31 it's a gift from God. 22:32 Yeah, it's a good time to bring up something 22:36 that used to bemuse me, during the, 22:38 was it during the Vietnam War, but its during the, 22:40 the Cold War, the Soviet Union which was a humanistic state 22:46 that it denied the existence of God in some formal way-- 22:50 And in many ways human rights too. 22:52 Yes, well, they didn't practice them adequately. 22:54 But in, in some of their tussles with the west, 22:57 iI remember several time I was like, this is not right. 23:00 What did they told me about, 23:01 what was this moral absolute that they're referring 23:03 to and I think as the Bible says you know even though 23:06 people don't understand God, they sort of innate awareness 23:10 of what is right and wrong that they can inherit that, 23:13 that they know this and, and, and before 23:16 when you're talking about the foundation 23:17 of the United Nations, people had died 23:19 to establish this principles, they truly did. 23:22 But I think many things on a global scale 23:25 have happened that just an honest onlooker 23:27 is led to deduce that we need to move this direction. 23:30 Yeah, I think-- It's just help, obvious. 23:33 Yeah, coming back to United Nation 23:35 in the 1981 they voted a declaration against 23:38 all kind of discrimination on the religion and so on. 23:42 It became really very important text for those 23:46 who are defending religious freedom. 23:48 And from this declaration of 1981 you know, 23:52 the people of the United Nation 23:54 has the right to send delegates 23:57 or there is a special Rawporter 23:59 at the United Nation for religious freedom- 24:01 And I know you worked very closely with-- 24:03 And many years, he has the right to visit countries 24:05 and they visit countries and they visit countries 24:07 and they comeback and they give a report, 24:09 and the report is presented 24:11 at the United Nation General Assembly and several time, 24:15 because we had a so good relation 24:17 with them several time when Adventist 24:19 were persecuted in one country, 24:21 I know there it was in the report 24:24 before the General Assembly. 24:26 And of course the government reacted 24:28 and they wanted to know why 24:30 you are so small movement 24:32 and so it's how can you do that, how is it possible, 24:36 now your name is mention at the United Nations. 24:39 You have important friends. Yeah, we have important friends. 24:42 Well, you remember when you and I were in Indonesia 24:44 once we spoke to a very successful businessman 24:47 who started off with very little and he went to the, 24:50 to this company that he wanted a huge loan 24:52 from in a business agreement and he says, 24:54 the says my father is wealthy and he wants me to do it. 24:58 Yeah, I remember that. 25:00 That was his father in heaven. 25:01 Who is your father? We have important friends, 25:03 God is on our side and it says if God be with us, 25:06 who can be against us. And it doesn't 25:07 hurt to have the special reporter. 25:09 Absolutely. And note your case and pass it on- 25:11 And then they're very open, I have to say that you know, 25:14 these people at the-- United Nation are very open, 25:17 you can meet them you know, 25:19 when you had all these fighting a battle against 25:22 sect and cult in Europe, those who are very open to us, 25:26 we have people at the United Nation specially 25:28 this special reporter, 25:29 he understood and he was very helpful. 25:31 It means we have to work with them and of course 25:34 we cannot say that everything is perfect, 25:37 there are many things which are not perfect, 25:39 but you know, our world is not perfect, 25:41 you have to take the opportunity 25:43 and to make friend were we are. 25:45 And these special reporters, you know, 25:49 they're not doing the easy thing. 25:51 At a recent even we heard 25:53 was Asma Jahangir from Pakistan-- 25:56 From Pakistan. In her own country she is under 25:59 some personal threat for what she said about-- 26:02 You know, several people, official, 26:03 minister of government and-- governor were assassinated. 26:06 Yeah. You know, in the world of today 26:08 I think that it's very important to know what 26:11 we are doing something like defending religious freedom. 26:14 As a believer, as Adventist, I'm defending 26:17 religious freedom because it's a gift of God. 26:20 But I am very, very-- please and I should says 26:22 that its a blessing from God to see that also other people 26:26 are defending these great values and this gift from God 26:30 and the others people you can find them almost 26:33 everywhere in the Government, in international organization 26:37 and we can also find them at the United Nation. 26:41 Those people who are supporting 26:42 and defending the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. 26:48 Any talk of Universal Rights 26:50 really must be put in the historical context, 26:53 for most of recorded history rights were not easily granted, 26:58 they were kept to the-- King perhaps to his nobles, 27:01 perhaps to a few powerful warlords, 27:03 rights were not something that were easily given 27:06 or even recognized does needing to be given 27:09 to the average worker itself or unimportant individual. 27:14 Its really only in the modern world 27:16 the modern era what I believe 27:18 the spread of spiritual values that derive from God 27:22 given rights and also an educate populous 27:25 that logically and humanistically 27:28 look at the dignity of a human being, 27:31 that universal application those has become possible. 27:34 United Nations is a fallible human instrument to be sure, 27:38 but its annunciated very well and weighs 27:40 reminiscence of the U.S. Constitution 27:43 and indeed reminiscent of some of the principles 27:46 that have come from our creative God. 27:48 Why all people should have universal rights 27:50 in particular religious liberty 27:53 is a valuable and indispensable and now internationally 27:58 advance principle that we can support, 28:00 must support, and we'll support. 28:03 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17