Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
This is a program bringing you
00:00:22.91\00:00:26.08
up-to-date news, views and
discussion on religious liberty
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events, not only in the U.S.
but around the world. My name is
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Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty
magazine and my guest on this
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program is Dr. John Graz. You've
got several hats, John. Yeah.
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The one that I want to emphasize
here today on this program is
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that you are the director for
the Seventh-day Adventist Church
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of the Public Affairs and
Religious Liberty Department at
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our world headquarters. As
such you and I work very closely
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together; our offices are
not far apart. But that said, I
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don't see you that much. You're
traveling an awful lot. Yes.
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What are some of the things
you are doing as you travel the
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world. Well I am Secretary
General of the International
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Religious Liberty Association,
which has been chartered in
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1893. You know sometime we
talk about the tradition about
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religious freedom. The Adventist
Church has a very strong
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tradition from the beginning
of the church. They were very
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sensitive about the issue of
religious freedom and they were
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always on the side of defending
and promoting religious freedom,
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not just for them, but as a
principle and for all people.
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That's very interesting.
And they started to have an
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association which will give
them the possibility to include
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people from other beliefs or
faiths, keeping focused on the
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same principle, this very strong
principle of religious freedom
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for all as a principle
and working with other people
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Absolutely. The IRLA is not
exclusively Adventist. We've
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taken a lead in establishing
it but most of the major office
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holders are not
Seventh-day Adventists.
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Yeah, several of them and
especially among our team of
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experts. We have, you know,
a board of experts. Fortunately
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probably the best experts in the
world are members of the team of
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experts and in this team
of experts the majority is not
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Adventist but they really
share our vision about religious
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freedom. Freedom for all, you
know, the freedom to choose your
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faith, to have or not to have a
faith and that's very important.
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It has to be of course according
to your own conscience. That's a
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a strong principle and we have
been very strong as a church and
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I think that now many churches
recognize that the Adventist
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church is one of the leaders.
But it's going to change because
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now you know more and more the
Catholic church is very involved
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in defending religious freedom
because of problems in the
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middle east. When you have
members in every part of the
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world: Middle east or China
who are persecuted, of course,
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you want to
defend religious freedom.
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Now why do you think though,
I've never discussed this on
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this program, what was the
dynamic that really directed
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Adventists outward so quickly
with the IRLA. You know, I have
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often said, and I think on this
program in other sessions, that
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when there were only about
25,000 Seventh-day Adventists
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in the United States, which
was their limit at that point,
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nearly a thousand of them
had run afoul of blue laws with
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fines some imprisoned
and some even on chain gangs,
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because of their
particular problems.
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You would think
that they would be
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incredibly focused on their
own religious liberty problems
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rather than
efforts to defend others.
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No because they saw the
principle for all. The freedom
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to choose your religion is for
all. You cannot really believe
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in a God who loves people and
at the same time coerce people,
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force people. It means, you
know, religion has to be and
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to stay a matter of choice.
You have to choose. You choose
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according to your conscience.
And as you say, you know, the
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religious freedom in the center
of the 19th century of among
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Adventists was very strong.
We were just a small group of
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people, but you know they
collected more than 250,000
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signatures against the blue laws
and they have at this time a
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magazine published every
two weeks. We are still back
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comparing to them in the 19th
century. At the end of the 19th
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century, beginning of the
20th century the Adventists were
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very, very strong in defending
and promoting religious freedom.
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In fact, one of the major forces
at that time. In fact, most of
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the other religious forces to do
with church/state issues, they
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we're going the wrong direction
weren't they? They were anxious
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to use the power of law to
uphold their Christian faith,
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which is a bad dynamic when
you're talking about universal
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religious freedom.
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Yeah, of course we can say
it's because we were a minority.
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That's true, but you know it's
more than that. It's because
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we believe in the
principle of free choice.
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What I was thinking when I even
asked the question was I think
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it's an outgrowth of the
eschatology of Seventh-day
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Adventists that believe that
at some point at the very end of
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time there will be a universal
attempt to compel people to a
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certain form of worship and they
even believe that the United
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States will be part of that,
in fact, play a leading role so
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from the get go Seventh-day
Adventists saw all people being
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involved, not just
their little group.
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This is what in our point
of view there is a very strong
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prophetic dimension in defense
and promotion of religious
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freedom. Why? Because we believe
that will be the last battle.
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It means we cannot say now
we are at rest; we don't need to
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defend religious freedom
any more because we have freedom
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in many countries. We believe it
will be an issue until the last
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day and that will be the
last battle between God and the
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opposing and the enemy of
God who are not for religious
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freedom. You know the beast, the
false prophet, the dragon, what
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are they doing? Yeah, Yeah, they
persecute people. What are they
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all doing? They persecute people
They force people. In a position
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the people of God
respect freedom of conscience.
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Yeah, and you well know
traveling the world, while there
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are many positive signs and
some significant portions of the
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world have adequate religious
freedoms under existing law,
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many, many countries
have problems. Was it the Pew
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Foundation, I think, recently
did a survey; 70% of the world's
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population lives in
countries where there are severe
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restrictions.
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Severe restrictions and there
are eleven countries in the
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world where according to their
constitution, to their law, if
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you change your religion
you will be executed. About 50
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countries in the world, if you
change you religion you may have
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a serious problem. You may
be arrested or you may be killed
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by your family. You will be
persecuted for sure. We receive
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letters, testimonies, of people
who became Christian or changed
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their religion and they say
that they had been rejected from
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their family. They had a lot of
problem. When they are a woman
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they lose their children and
so on. That's terrible. And we
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cannot just say oh that's going
on; well that's not our problem.
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Part of the dynamic that I've
learned firsthand in dealing
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with religious liberty is that
when you look at one of these
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countries that may restrict
all but state religion or a
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generally accepted societal
or cultural religion, it's not
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enough to even get freedom for
your church, or Adventists, or
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some missionary be free to
operate unless all religions
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and all religious practices
are accepted. That really is
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selective persecution.
That's not much better.
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Yeah sometimes they are laws
like now in Hungary. You can
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imagine. In Hungary the Seventh-
day Adventist church has been
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recognized for more than
one century, even during the
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communists they recognized our
church. Now they passed a new
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law where the church is not
recognized. Only 14 churches
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and religious groups are
recognized. But they say okay,
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probably in the next round you
will be recognized. Probably.
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Probably. But we are
against this law even if we were
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recognized because we are
defending the principle of
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religious freedom for all and we
don't believe in discrimination.
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Registration is a subtle way to
discriminate and keep religions
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on the margins, isn't it?
Because you can have maybe 10
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religions that the state accepts
but everybody else is out of
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luck. When we
discuss with people from
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the government and they
say, there is no problem. Being
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recognized we'll not give
anything more except probably
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some money. But if you are not
you will be still able to have
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your worship and even to build
a big church where you want,
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but you know in practice
it doesn't work like that.
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At the very least it's
state sponsored prejudice
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And imagine you go to an
administration and you say we
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would like to build a big church
in town. The first question they
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will ask: Who are you?
You are even not a church.
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Yeah, you're not registered.
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And you are not registered.
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This is sort of out in
left field, but do you think the
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United States is heading toward
some sort of registration of
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religion with this explosion
of many different religious
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entities? I don't
know. There is probably
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a temptation. But it's not
according to the tradition of
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the U.S. to do that really. But
in many other countries where
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before having religious
pluralities you have just one
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church, it's more in their mind
to say okay we have to control.
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There are too many churches,
too many religious groups, we
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have to control them. And you
try to control, and you start to
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discriminate. I've
always thought and I've
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said in other discussions that
back a few years when the faith
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based initiative was brought
into the United States by
00:10:09.22\00:10:11.92
President Bush, for many of us
it seemed like a very calculated
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step across the line of the
constitutional separation of
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church and state. But in
so doing, giving money to the
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churches in the way that they
hadn't before I thought that
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they were almost certain to
develop a list of acceptable
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churches; a back door
registration, not really
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overtly registering churches but
government entities have decided
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ahead of time which churches are
above board in their view and
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worthy of government trust.
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You know there's always
been a tension between state and
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church. It means the churches
wanted to be independent from
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the state but on the other
side the states always wanted to
00:10:54.37\00:10:58.72
control the churches. And
its like a tension and a kind of
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game; who will dominate the
other. And of course they are
00:11:03.14\00:11:06.88
price. This is why more and
more we can see around the world
00:11:06.91\00:11:11.17
a kind of alliance between some
churches and the state. But for
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us it's not good because
you know the church has to keep
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their message and their mission.
00:11:19.10\00:11:21.06
And as you describe it, it's
sort of a natural human tendency
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whether you're in government
or in the church, that you want
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to protect your turf and gain
the most benefits of the stance.
00:11:27.60\00:11:30.75
I think it's less likely any
time soon in the United States
00:11:30.78\00:11:34.44
because there is no one single
church. The best you can come up
00:11:34.48\00:11:38.11
with is a monolithic coalition,
if you like, of a certain
00:11:38.14\00:11:42.04
religious viewpoint that
merges politics and religion.
00:11:42.08\00:11:45.95
That could come about.
00:11:45.98\00:11:47.35
And this is one of the
principles of the association
00:11:47.38\00:11:50.14
is really to maintain and
to develop and promote the
00:11:50.18\00:11:52.99
separation between church and
state. Because there is no way
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you now. As you said if
you start to combine church and
00:11:56.55\00:11:59.80
state you will have to
discriminate others and that's
00:11:59.84\00:12:03.02
not really religious freedom.
We cannot deal with that. And at
00:12:03.06\00:12:06.49
the end it's not good for the
state and it's not good for the
00:12:06.52\00:12:09.92
church. That's
right. And in promoting
00:12:09.95\00:12:11.65
religious liberty, I'm glad you
brought that out, we're not in
00:12:11.69\00:12:15.44
any country suggesting something
that will disadvantage the
00:12:15.48\00:12:19.20
secular state. It actually
creates for a more secure
00:12:19.23\00:12:23.27
environment for the state
and the civil security of it's
00:12:23.31\00:12:27.28
citizenry and the spiritual life
of anybody who wants to practice
00:12:27.32\00:12:31.15
religious faith. It's been
proven by many examples, hasn't
00:12:31.18\00:12:34.46
it, that this is the most
harmonious way to carry this
00:12:34.50\00:12:37.73
forward. There's a lot to
discuss with Dr. Graz. We'll be
00:12:37.77\00:12:41.15
back after the break to further
this discussion of his work
00:12:41.19\00:12:44.74
globally for religious liberty
and the IRLA as a representative
00:12:44.78\00:12:48.30
of the
Seventh-day Adventist church.
00:12:48.33\00:12:50.22
¤ ¤
00:12:50.25\00:12:59.65
One hundred years, a long time
to do anything much less publish
00:12:59.69\00:13:03.77
a magazine. But this
year Liberty, the Seventh-day
00:13:03.80\00:13:07.59
Adventist voice of religious
freedom celebrates 100 years
00:13:07.63\00:13:11.50
of doing what it does
best, collecting, analyzing, and
00:13:11.53\00:13:15.33
reporting the ebb and flow of
religious expression around the
00:13:15.37\00:13:18.41
world. Issue after Issue
Liberty has taken on the tough
00:13:18.44\00:13:22.57
assignments, tracking down
threats to religious freedom and
00:13:22.61\00:13:25.91
exposing the work of the devil
in every corner of the globe.
00:13:25.95\00:13:29.22
Governmental interference,
personal attacks, corporate
00:13:29.25\00:13:32.46
assaults, even religious freedom
issues sequestered within the
00:13:32.50\00:13:35.76
church community itself
have been clearly and honestly
00:13:35.79\00:13:38.79
exposed. Liberty exists for one
purpose: To help God's people
00:13:38.83\00:13:43.20
maintain that all important
separation of church and state
00:13:43.24\00:13:47.22
while recognizing the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:47.26\00:13:50.91
During the past century liberty
has experienced challenges of
00:13:50.94\00:13:54.56
its own but it remains on
the job thanks to the inspired
00:13:54.59\00:13:57.99
leadership of a long line
of dedicated Adventist editors
00:13:58.03\00:14:01.20
three of whom represent
almost half of the publication's
00:14:01.24\00:14:04.34
existence and the foresight of
a little woman from New England.
00:14:04.38\00:14:08.36
One hundred years of struggle,
100 years of victories.
00:14:08.39\00:14:12.30
Religious freedom isn't just
about political machines and
00:14:12.33\00:14:16.17
cultural prejudices, it's about
people fighting for the right to
00:14:16.21\00:14:20.98
serve the God they love as
their hearts and the Holy Spirit
00:14:21.01\00:14:24.62
dictate. Thanks to the
prayers and generous support of
00:14:24.65\00:14:28.26
Seventh-day Adventists
everywhere, Liberty will
00:14:28.29\00:14:31.02
continue to accomplish its work
of providing timely information
00:14:31.06\00:14:34.47
Spirit filled inspiration
and heaven sent encouragement
00:14:34.50\00:14:37.72
to all who long to live and work
in a world bound together by the
00:14:37.76\00:14:43.22
God ordained bonds
of religious freedom.
00:14:43.25\00:14:47.92
¤ ¤
00:14:47.95\00:14:57.07
Welcome back to The Liberty
Insider. Before the break, I was
00:14:57.11\00:15:00.62
talking with my guest, Dr. John
Graz. First of all, I introduced
00:15:00.66\00:15:04.14
you as the world director
for the Seventh-day Adventist
00:15:04.17\00:15:07.45
church of the Public Affairs
and Religious Liberty Department
00:15:07.49\00:15:10.86
and then we got to talking about
the IRLA, and then we got into
00:15:10.89\00:15:14.23
philosophy which is the whole
reason we do this. But now I
00:15:14.26\00:15:18.25
want to bring it back more
particular again. I edit Liberty
00:15:18.29\00:15:22.28
Magazine; our viewers know
that. That's a magazine that our
00:15:22.32\00:15:26.24
church began about 106 years ago
now. But you have a publication
00:15:26.28\00:15:30.98
out of the headquarters that's
not competitive to Liberty, in
00:15:31.01\00:15:35.93
fact we help you in some ways
produce this but maybe you could
00:15:35.96\00:15:41.69
hold that up to show our viewers
It's called... and it's really
00:15:41.73\00:15:48.10
to target the intellectual,
the scholars, the more academic.
00:15:48.14\00:15:52.73
Because you know when you are
defending religious freedom you
00:15:52.76\00:15:57.40
need to work on several levels.
You know at the level of the
00:15:57.43\00:16:01.29
people: This is why we organize
big meetings like Festival of
00:16:01.32\00:16:05.29
Religious Freedom. Then you need
also to reach the scholars who
00:16:05.32\00:16:09.47
are already working on similar
topics. Then you need to reach
00:16:09.51\00:16:14.28
to the highest among the scholar
who are writing, thinking,
00:16:14.31\00:16:19.16
making research about religious
freedom because when people
00:16:19.19\00:16:24.01
want to change a law they
have to read a lot about it.
00:16:24.04\00:16:26.50
Yeah, I know a lot of
the articles in this annual
00:16:26.53\00:16:30.15
publication are actually
presentations by some of the
00:16:30.19\00:16:33.48
experts at IRLA and
events that you've organized.
00:16:33.52\00:16:36.74
This journal is read in the best
universities around the world
00:16:36.78\00:16:40.94
and those who are writing in
this journal are also the best
00:16:40.98\00:16:44.94
experts around the world. And
it helps a lot. You know when we
00:16:44.97\00:16:49.23
are visiting ambassadors or
people from the government and
00:16:49.26\00:16:53.31
so on, that's very good as
an association we can show them
00:16:53.34\00:16:57.32
that we are not just talking but
we are supported by a group of
00:16:57.36\00:17:02.31
very good experts and this is
why it's a very good tool for us
00:17:02.34\00:17:07.32
And I'm sure they read it and
this coherent, well thought out,
00:17:07.36\00:17:12.31
well researched... We
have a great signature.
00:17:12.34\00:17:15.07
I know when you organize
congresses and symposium, people
00:17:15.11\00:17:18.16
want to be published and you
give them the opportunity to be
00:17:18.19\00:17:21.21
published. I've
been to a number of the
00:17:21.24\00:17:23.00
congresses that you've organized
They've been wonderful. The one
00:17:23.04\00:17:26.02
that I'll never forget was
in South Africa, in Cape Town.
00:17:26.05\00:17:29.99
Now you have another one
coming up not too far away.
00:17:30.02\00:17:33.03
Yeah, it will be our seventh
world congress on religious
00:17:33.06\00:17:38.05
freedom and there will be in
April 26-28, 2012. Then after
00:17:38.09\00:17:42.39
the congress we will have a big
festival in Santo Domingo. But
00:17:42.43\00:17:46.74
the congress will become an
event in the world of religious
00:17:46.78\00:17:50.56
freedom. It will not be just in
the Adventist world but in the
00:17:50.60\00:17:54.36
world of religious freedom. The
best experts will come and the
00:17:54.39\00:17:58.12
problem we have now, Lincoln,
we have too many speakers,
00:17:58.15\00:18:01.87
top level speakers. I am in
charge of the program; I am the
00:18:01.90\00:18:06.01
general coordinator and I asked
me, I said, but how can I put
00:18:06.04\00:18:10.12
all these people.
They are excellent people.
00:18:10.15\00:18:11.91
Have them speak less. My father
used to organize ICPA, the
00:18:11.95\00:18:18.01
International Commission for the
Prevention of Alcoholism, world
00:18:18.05\00:18:21.02
congresses very similar and
he had people coming from all
00:18:21.05\00:18:24.74
around the world and
some of them just a 15 minute
00:18:24.77\00:18:26.62
presentation. Oh
yeah, that's terrible. They
00:18:26.65\00:18:28.84
are coming from the other side
of the world and you ask them
00:18:28.88\00:18:32.23
to speak 15 minutes! But that's
the way we organize congresses.
00:18:32.26\00:18:35.58
You need to have people, you
know, at congresses, you need
00:18:35.61\00:18:38.82
to be sure that you have a kind
of authority in inviting people
00:18:38.86\00:18:42.84
who are really the best experts
in the field. Of course, when
00:18:42.87\00:18:46.82
you have these people, the
governments are interested.
00:18:46.85\00:18:49.30
Then first you have to face the
problem of too many speakers,
00:18:49.34\00:18:53.95
then after people, official
people, they want to come too.
00:18:53.99\00:18:58.42
Prime minister, president of
the senate, they want to come
00:18:58.45\00:19:02.81
because they say oh there are a
lot of people there, we want to
00:19:02.85\00:19:05.68
come and you have another
challenge; where are you going
00:19:05.71\00:19:08.02
to put them. I know
that this has a direct
00:19:08.05\00:19:10.29
influence on the governance in
many countries, but particularly
00:19:10.33\00:19:13.77
where you hold those conferences
You and I were at that one not
00:19:13.80\00:19:17.21
too long ago in Dominican
Republic which was a precursor
00:19:17.24\00:19:21.96
to the one coming and I remember
some of the legislators, their
00:19:22.00\00:19:25.88
reporting on ongoing efforts
to rewrite their constitution.
00:19:25.92\00:19:29.77
So there was a give and
take with the attendees that I
00:19:29.80\00:19:33.88
believe was directly informing
their active constitutional
00:19:33.91\00:19:37.96
development. And
that is also one of the
00:19:37.99\00:19:39.36
positive sides of the congress.
We encourage people who are
00:19:39.39\00:19:42.89
really fighting for religious
freedom, for more religious
00:19:42.93\00:19:46.18
freedom. You know in countries
like Peru, at the end of all
00:19:46.22\00:19:50.08
these activities, festival,
congresses, symposium, they
00:19:50.11\00:19:53.90
passed new legislation and our
church is now recognized as a
00:19:53.94\00:19:58.94
church.
Seventh-day Adventists were not
00:19:58.97\00:20:01.31
recognized
until fairly recently?
00:20:01.34\00:20:02.95
No, you know in many countries
we are not legally recognized.
00:20:02.99\00:20:05.52
We are legally recognized
as an association, religious
00:20:05.55\00:20:09.65
organization and so on, but not
as a church. But they have to
00:20:09.69\00:20:12.94
change the law in many places
to recognize you as a church.
00:20:12.97\00:20:16.19
Of course it makes a lot
of difference. When you are
00:20:16.22\00:20:18.78
recognized as a church you
can build a church, you can also
00:20:18.82\00:20:23.26
build a religious school without
giving explanation and so on.
00:20:23.30\00:20:27.71
It changes your status
and it's very important.
00:20:27.74\00:20:31.36
Now Peru, for those Seventh-day
Adventists watching, we have a
00:20:31.40\00:20:35.10
huge membership there.
Isn't it about half a million?
00:20:35.13\00:20:37.53
More or less,
yeah, more or less, yeah.
00:20:37.56\00:20:39.03
Incredible. In fact the other
day I was thinking about it. As
00:20:39.07\00:20:42.38
we film this it's near Christmas
time and as I go into some of
00:20:42.41\00:20:45.69
the international food shops
they've got these panettone's,
00:20:45.72\00:20:49.16
this Italian star Christmas cake
and this year particularly as I
00:20:49.20\00:20:53.74
look at them, I see they're
not coming from Italy, they're
00:20:53.77\00:20:55.72
coming from Peru. They
come from the Seventh-day
00:20:55.75\00:20:58.85
Adventist University bakery.
They are the number one in the
00:20:58.89\00:21:03.59
country. So it's
not religious liberty,
00:21:03.62\00:21:05.42
but a little interesting sign of
an activity in a country that's
00:21:05.46\00:21:08.61
far away in the minds of
most Americans but very active
00:21:08.64\00:21:12.43
Seventh-day
Adventist Church there.
00:21:12.46\00:21:15.35
You still see that in many
countries in Latin America, the
00:21:15.39\00:21:18.76
government and people are more
and more open about religious
00:21:18.79\00:21:22.35
freedom. It was not the case 40
years ago, but now they are more
00:21:22.39\00:21:25.66
so. And that's interesting to
see that the restrictions have
00:21:25.70\00:21:29.43
been in many countries, but in
some countries of Latin America
00:21:29.47\00:21:33.12
we have more freedom today and
the church and all the churches
00:21:33.15\00:21:36.77
are more recognized today
than it was 20 or 30 years ago.
00:21:36.80\00:21:40.88
This is the irony, and we can
talk about it again but from the
00:21:40.92\00:21:43.69
beginning of this program I've
brought in my sermons years ago
00:21:43.73\00:21:47.14
used to emphasize an example
I got from a piece of literature
00:21:47.18\00:21:52.61
you know, The Tale of Two Cities
by Charles Dickens. He says at
00:21:52.65\00:21:55.35
the beginning, "it was the best
of times and the worst of times"
00:21:55.38\00:21:58.05
It was the best of
times and the worst of times.
00:21:58.08\00:22:00.29
And for religious liberty I
think that's very true isn't it?
00:22:00.33\00:22:04.02
Some of the things that
are happening in these middle
00:22:04.05\00:22:08.21
eastern countries where they
will actually execute you for
00:22:08.25\00:22:11.41
changing your religion. It's
just incredible. But at the same
00:22:11.45\00:22:14.55
time in Latin America and else
where I think there's a greater
00:22:14.59\00:22:17.50
and greater religious freedom.
I think the world is sort of
00:22:17.54\00:22:20.89
shaking off its torpor of the
previous years and seeing that
00:22:20.93\00:22:24.25
individuals have rights.
00:22:24.28\00:22:25.73
And you know which is happening
now in several countries in
00:22:25.77\00:22:29.30
Latin America is the number of
evangelicals is really growing,
00:22:29.34\00:22:32.80
growing up and in some countries
they are close to being the
00:22:32.83\00:22:36.83
majority. It means things
are changing, but you know the
00:22:36.86\00:22:40.54
concept of religious freedom
is perceived as the best way to
00:22:40.58\00:22:45.11
have peace in the country.
Because if you discriminate a
00:22:45.14\00:22:49.17
group of churches and you
give all the privileges and
00:22:49.20\00:22:53.16
advantages to just one church
of course it's not the best way
00:22:53.20\00:22:57.03
to deal with peace.
00:22:57.06\00:22:58.43
Let me throw an idea at you.
I've been studying this like you
00:22:58.46\00:23:01.70
and watching it and I do think
generally speaking throughout
00:23:01.73\00:23:05.18
the whole world, even in
countries that haven't yet given
00:23:05.21\00:23:08.59
way, they don't reject but they
grudgingly, some of them, accept
00:23:08.63\00:23:12.61
the concept that yes people have
a right to determine their own
00:23:12.65\00:23:16.60
religious identity. I
think that's on the ascendency.
00:23:16.63\00:23:19.92
What I think is in the decline,
and that's an interesting
00:23:19.96\00:23:24.75
contradiction is a democratic
concept of the rule of the
00:23:24.78\00:23:29.67
people and sort of the
enlightenment view of democracy;
00:23:29.71\00:23:34.53
I think that's on the decline.
Even in the west we're heading
00:23:34.57\00:23:37.92
toward autocratic representative
type government and at some
00:23:37.95\00:23:41.27
point I think the still
emerging religious liberty view
00:23:41.30\00:23:46.44
point is going to be in conflict
with the ever tightening statism
00:23:46.48\00:23:49.89
You know Lincoln this is
why also the association is
00:23:49.92\00:23:53.27
defending religious freedom
and human rights and we are
00:23:53.31\00:23:56.59
defending religious freedom
in the context of human rights,
00:23:56.63\00:23:59.56
because you know we see that
there are a lot of challenges
00:23:59.60\00:24:02.55
against human rights today.
And of course it will affect
00:24:02.59\00:24:05.51
religious freedom. We're
sailing on and we need to
00:24:05.54\00:24:09.76
have some more programs. But
when we're talking about Punta
00:24:09.80\00:24:12.98
Cana and this upcoming event
I think it would be good for us
00:24:13.01\00:24:15.75
to watch a little video that you
prepared that gives us a bit of
00:24:15.78\00:24:18.49
an idea what's going so let's
take a break. We can watch it
00:24:18.52\00:24:21.63
and our viewers can see this too
00:24:21.66\00:24:23.25
The world's foremost voices
in championing religious freedom
00:24:23.29\00:24:26.71
will gather in Punta Cana,
Dominican Republic in April 2012
00:24:26.75\00:24:30.76
for the 7th IRLA World Congress.
They will explore the secular
00:24:30.79\00:24:34.68
challenges to the expression of
religious faith. If you have a
00:24:34.72\00:24:37.99
passion for religious freedom,
you will want to participate in
00:24:38.03\00:24:41.27
one of the world's most
informative conventions on the
00:24:41.30\00:24:43.89
subject. Scholars and advocates
whose careers are dedicated to
00:24:43.93\00:24:47.24
seeking religious harmony in the
modern society will share their
00:24:47.28\00:24:50.56
research and discuss with
you how to make the world a more
00:24:50.59\00:24:53.34
peaceful place. Space is
limited so register now at
00:24:53.37\00:24:56.81
www.IRLA.org. Please
join us for this unique
00:24:56.84\00:25:03.26
opportunity to meet religious
and political leaders from
00:25:03.30\00:25:06.91
around the world. Join us to
show you love religious freedom.
00:25:06.95\00:25:11.95
And stand for it. I am looking
forward to welcoming you to the
00:25:11.98\00:25:16.95
Dominican Republic in April 2012
00:25:16.98\00:25:21.46
Well that was an interesting
presentation John. I can tell
00:25:21.50\00:25:23.69
it's going to be a great time,
not just beach time although
00:25:23.72\00:25:26.11
anybody seeing that think will
man those beaches look good.
00:25:26.15\00:25:28.56
I know there are going to be
some serious lectures and some
00:25:28.59\00:25:30.97
of them, I'm sure, will
find their way into Fides.
00:25:31.00\00:25:33.61
I think we are expecting more
than 600 participants, maybe 800
00:25:33.65\00:25:37.99
and it means that that
would be the largest congress on
00:25:38.02\00:25:41.35
religious freedom during the
year. It will be a world event,
00:25:41.39\00:25:44.57
not just for
us, the world event.
00:25:44.60\00:25:47.10
I know I'm planning on being
there and I know some of our
00:25:47.14\00:25:49.60
religious liberty leaders from
north America are going. We're
00:25:49.63\00:25:52.06
hoping a couple of hundred.
00:25:52.09\00:25:54.25
Of course they can visit our web
site where they will see all the
00:25:54.29\00:25:57.01
information. www.IRLA.org.
00:25:57.04\00:26:04.33
Very good. Well, thanks for
being a guest on this program
00:26:04.37\00:26:08.19
and you know what do you
want to say in conclusion?
00:26:08.22\00:26:09.94
Just sum up the
work of the IRLA.
00:26:09.97\00:26:12.41
Sometime people ask why are you
organizing such an event like a
00:26:12.45\00:26:17.36
symposium, congresses, and so
on to promote religious freedom?
00:26:17.39\00:26:21.63
You know, let things doing
and even if we are persecuted we
00:26:21.67\00:26:25.88
will be persecuted and
maybe Jesus will come earlier.
00:26:25.91\00:26:28.90
You know, that's not a way
of thinking. I think we are
00:26:28.93\00:26:31.63
promoting and defending
religious freedom because it's
00:26:31.66\00:26:34.29
a prophetic mission, because
it's a gift from God and we want
00:26:34.33\00:26:38.74
to say that these gifts are for
everyone, everyone around the
00:26:38.77\00:26:42.69
world and when we are doing that
we are a sign of the kingdom of
00:26:42.72\00:26:46.61
God. Defending
religious liberty is
00:26:46.64\00:26:50.09
a little bit more than just some
good articles in a magazine like
00:26:50.13\00:26:54.45
Liberty and I'm the editor of
Liberty so believe me, I think
00:26:54.48\00:26:58.05
that's quite important.
It's also a little bit more than
00:26:58.09\00:27:01.59
defending someone in a court
of law, as important as that is.
00:27:01.63\00:27:05.96
Defending religious liberty
is even more important than
00:27:05.99\00:27:09.87
speaking out in your community.
Defending religious liberty goes
00:27:09.91\00:27:14.46
way back. I can think of
Paul standing before Felix and
00:27:14.49\00:27:19.04
Agrippa and ultimately Cesar.
I can think of Luther standing
00:27:19.08\00:27:23.62
before the emperor at the
Diet of Worms and defending his
00:27:23.66\00:27:27.92
actions as a representative
of Christ and reform of the true
00:27:27.95\00:27:32.36
gospel. But I also think today
that people like Dr. John Graz
00:27:32.39\00:27:36.77
and many others who are
traveling the world speaking out
00:27:36.80\00:27:40.19
for religious liberty and the
principles of truth that they
00:27:40.23\00:27:43.61
know so dear. It means sometimes
speaking to other religious
00:27:43.64\00:27:46.99
leaders, it means speaking
to heads of state, it means
00:27:47.02\00:27:50.58
speaking to those who are
affected by a lack of religious
00:27:50.62\00:27:54.79
freedom, but always it means
standing tall and true for a
00:27:54.82\00:27:58.58
faith that is worth defending
and worth speaking out for
00:27:58.61\00:28:02.34
vigorously. For Liberty
Insider this Lincoln Steed
00:28:02.37\00:28:06.94
¤ ¤
00:28:06.97\00:28:25.17