Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program
bringing you discussion,
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news, views, and information
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on religious liberty
events in the United States
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but around the world as well.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the
program is Greg Hamilton,
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President of the Northwest
Religious Liberty Association.
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Good to be with
you. In the Seattle area.
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Well, it's a little,
you're based a little south
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of that aren't you,
in Vancouver, Washington.
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Near Portland, Oregon, yeah.
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What are we gonna talk
about? What's on your mind?
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What we're gonna
talk about American,
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American Revolution
occurring on the streets today.
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Yeah. Now, I wanted to see
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if you had that
revolutionary fervor.
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But, there's so much going
on in the world at the moment.
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But we are really
sitting in the United States.
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Did you know that
we're part of the 99%?
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Have you heard that?
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That we're part of the 99%,
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that we're not part of the 1%
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and as if there is no such thing
as a middle class in America.
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That's what Occupy
Wall Street movement
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is telling us
these days. Yes, yes.
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Well, the
middleclass is under siege.
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Yeah. In the United
States, there's no question.
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But not that
much. No, not that much.
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But, you know, I've
lived in the United States
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for several decades.
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I won't even say how many.
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And I can see it
that this has turned in
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from largely a middle
class country to a great divide.
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Although, you
know many poor people
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could easily go
to the third-world
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and see what they're missing.
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It's not that
bad for most people.
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Yeah, Occupy Wall
Street, an incredible phenomenon
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and I've listened to many
of the right wing talk show
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hosts just
dismiss it out of hand,
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bunch of rebel rousers.
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Well, and in some respects
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they're correct
in this one sense.
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I mean, you've got anarchists
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coming from Eugene, Oregon
and elsewhere coming in there,
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just to create mayhem.
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And if there is any good purpose
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in the Occupy
Wall Street movement,
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although I can't see
much, if there is any,
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they're certainly
giving them a bad name. Yeah.
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If they, you know,
didn't have a bad name already.
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Well, and the Tea
Party movement was given
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a bad name by some
rebel rousers there,
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but we're
showing racists comments
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and very extreme
things that were disavowed,
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does not bring-- So I
think both these two movements,
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Tea Party and
Occupy Wall Street,
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have some undesirable elements.
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But they're both real movements
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and what do you think
we can read into this?
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Well. This, this is
a very real phenomenon.
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Here's what I see,
instead of a civil war.
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This civil war,
civil war paradigm or model
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is when you take a straight line
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and you've got
two opposing sides
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and they have,
they're absolutely
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opposed to each other.
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They literally
go after each other.
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That's the basis of a civil war.
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Whereas a revolution
is where you can have
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two divergent
viewpoints, who are completely
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at odds with each other,
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but their target is equally
the same and in this case,
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the target is big
government and Wall Street and--
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Occupy Wall Street is
against the prevailing
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economic order and--
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Correct, they're not
against big government.
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That's right,
they're for more socialist
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type approach to
things. That's true.
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but they're still
railing against government.
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For allowing this.
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For allowing the
cheats and the scam artists
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like Bernie Madoff and
the Ponzi scheme expert
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to getaway with such stuff
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and not even
penalizing them. So--
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I think many industrialists.
Including the Banking System.
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Many of the
citizenry have discovered
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that the entire national debt
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and national budget is a
bit of a Ponzi scheme too.
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And in the end,
usually one or both sides
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get something of something.
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I mean, I look at
the French revolution
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in which you had factions,
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various parties
really going at it.
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But had the same cause.
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They were both upset
with the Louis' so to speak
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and Marie Antoinette.
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And especially with the
Roman Catholic hierarchy.
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So they decided what was
the term that Voltaire used,
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Viva La Excre, something anyway,
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basically chop
off both their heads
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is what they were calling for.
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Then, of course, they
made it the French Revolution.
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But blood ran on the streets
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and what happened from
that was there was total chaos
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during 10 years Robespierre
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and the French Government
could not run the government.
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It was sort of
like Cromwell's England
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where once they got into power,
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they really couldn't do much.
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And they were a total
failure as a government.
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It got out of control.
There were several phase
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to the French Revolution.
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And so the people longed for,
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the people longed for a ruler
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to come back and restore order.
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And what did Napoleon do?
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He basically shot
cannon fire into the crowd
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and basically restored order
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and the people loved him for it.
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He became their
benevolent dictator.
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You see monuments to
him all around Paris.
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So, you have that and
you also have the fact
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that most all the
monuments in Paris
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are still to the Louis.
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Louis XIV the son
king, Louis XV, Louis XVI,
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Marie Antoinette, Versailles,
they're all celebrated.
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Napoleon's
celebrated but nowhere
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on our French walking tour,
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my wife and I took
a French walking tour,
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of the French
Revolution in Paris.
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And there is no monument
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to the French
Revolution in all of Paris.
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Why is that? And the
person giving the tour says,
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well, it's in the
hearts of the people.
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And I said, well,
yeah, but, you know,
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anywhere else in the world--
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La Marseillaise. Yeah.
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The French national
anthem is revolutionary.
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Yes, but they don't have,
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they don't have any
monuments. No statues--
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Well, it's because
it got out of control--
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This is what I'm saying.
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It's not right to see
the French Revolution--
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They're ashamed of it.
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As one event. It's
initial, the initial complaints
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that were act upon in
a revolutionary fervor
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were legitimate to a point.
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I mean, there
was cause and effect.
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But once began,
like a lot of revolutions
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that got out of
control and soon those
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that began the
revolution were consumed by it.
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Yes. And then began the terror.
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When any leader that popped
up they'd last a few months,
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then they'd be executed.
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Well, but here is why I
think there's chaos around.
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Here's why I think the
Occupy Wall Street movement
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will be short lived.
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Only because and I
have no proof of this.
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But I think the
economy will be restored,
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whether it's
under this President
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or the next
President or whatever,
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it's going to be restored.
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I don't think to
far off in the future.
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I think it will be restored.
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I think we're in an ebb and flow
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period and probably
in the ebb right now.
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But I really think that
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and many of our audience
members may disagree with this,
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but I think that
there's no reason
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for economic alarm or panic.
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There's an article in--
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Can I interrupt? Sure.
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We're in a frame of-- Yes.
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Line of discussion,
the French Revolution,
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and we need to insert
religion and religious freedom,
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is significant to us
from a prophetic point of view
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and as religionists because
out of the French Revolution
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came an outright
hatred of religion.
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Yeah. But, why?
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Well-- I need to
ask the question.
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Well, from my perspective,
it was because of the way
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they viewed the Catholic
Church as being manipulative.
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Church of the monarchy.
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Well this, the church was
so supportive of the state.
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Yes. But when
the people rose up,
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they saw them as
one and the same. Right.
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And I wonder in
our present situation
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and in another program
we spoke about religion
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in the Presidential election,
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that certain religious
factions run a grave peril
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if they've latched themselves
on to a losing cause that is,
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is then the victim of an up--
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spontaneous
upraising that made--
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In terms of a backlash,
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so then you're giving credence
to the Occupy Wall Street.
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I can see that, yeah.
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Definitely, but
let me share something
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with you that David Brooks
wrote in the New York Times
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about the Tea Party movement.
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And he titles
this, The Tea Party Teams
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and this was written
a little bit while ago.
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Not too long ago but
he says in the near term,
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the Tea Party tendency will
dominate the Republican Party.
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And it certainly has, in fact,
what did the recent poll say
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that was, well, it
was a few months ago,
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but it was like 49%
of the Republican Party
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is made up of the Tea Party.
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So, the party,
the Republican Party
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is definitely divided in half.
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He says it could be
the ruin of the party
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pulling it in a angry direction
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that suburban
voters will not tolerate.
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But he says don't underestimate
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the deep reservoirs
of public discussed.
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If there is and
these are certain factors
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that could happen in society
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that could cause a major
revolution in this country.
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He says if there is
a double-dip recession,
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which some thinks, some
people think we're already in,
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but I don't, I don't think
that, I don't believe that.
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A long period of stagnation
which is clearly happening,
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a fiscal crisis,
that's happening,
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a terrorist attack or
some other major scandal
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or event that's
already happened.
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The country could
demand total change.
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Does he mean total
constitutional change?
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Well, that's an
interesting question.
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And then, he
says creating a vacuum
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that only the Tea Party movement
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and its inheritors would
be in a position to fulfill.
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Now, you look at
Hitler. You look at Mussolini.
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You look at Lenin, who came up
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and rose in the
Communist Movement.
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You look at each of
those governmental paradigms
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and those
revolutionary paradigms.
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In each instance, they rose
when economy was in shambles.
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Absolutely that's what
I was fishing for earlier,
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the French Revolution.
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Remember the classic
statement of Marie Antoinette.
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Yes, yes. Didn't
have bread give them cake.
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There was an
economic crisis. Right.
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And there has to be
other forces at play
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but an economic
crisis will unleash
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this pent up dissatisfaction.
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Right. The revolutionary
spirit and so on. Right.
00:09:45.34\00:09:46.98
So it's just a fact of history,
00:09:46.99\00:09:50.38
is that we're entering into
a deep recession/depression,
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there will be civil unrest. Yes.
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And given that
we've good reasons for it,
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it just may not be so
easy to put back into the box.
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And that's why we have
a revolutionary paradigm,
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not a civil war paradigm.
00:10:04.05\00:10:05.22
We have some people say,
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we're on the
verge of a civil war
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because they're either
watching FOXNEWS network
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or MSMBC or FOXNEWS network
00:10:09.81\00:10:11.70
and CNN and they think this.
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When in fact the opposite
is happening as I see it.
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I see that the, that there
are two different movements.
00:10:16.58\00:10:19.89
There are other factions as well
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to the center
right and center left.
00:10:21.35\00:10:22.53
They both think
the system has failed.
00:10:22.54\00:10:23.99
Exactly, so they're
attacking the system,
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they're
attacking government. Yeah.
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That's, that's a
revolutionary model.
00:10:28.66\00:10:30.26
And none of us really
know where it will go,
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but I think,
you and I are agreed
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and we can explain to
most people good reasons
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for seeing this as
not just a time of unrest.
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This is incipient
revolutionary thinking.
00:10:39.61\00:10:43.34
They don't want the status quo
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and, you know, I
listen to all the surveys
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and well, what is the Congress.
00:10:48.36\00:10:51.07
I think their acceptance
is like one or two percent,
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I mean, it's at to
the vanishing point.
00:10:53.75\00:10:55.37
Yeah, I remember when I was in,
00:10:55.38\00:10:56.81
in Community College years ago,
00:10:56.82\00:10:59.70
yeah, at
Portland Community College
00:10:59.71\00:11:01.73
in Washington County
in Beaverton, Oregon.
00:11:01.74\00:11:05.81
I'll never forget the,
it was Congress was rated
00:11:05.82\00:11:10.20
at something like
23% approval rating
00:11:10.21\00:11:13.91
and we thought that
was really low. Yeah.
00:11:13.92\00:11:16.11
Now, it's virtually zero.
00:11:16.12\00:11:18.33
Single digit, I know it's,
I'm pretty sure it was two,
00:11:18.34\00:11:20.71
it's was either
one or two percent.
00:11:20.72\00:11:21.78
That's pretty sad
when you think about it.
00:11:21.79\00:11:23.23
Because if you think about it,
00:11:23.24\00:11:24.82
we're told by Sister White,
00:11:24.83\00:11:26.62
which is Ellen G
White this one statement,
00:11:26.63\00:11:29.52
the fifth volume of
Testimonies, page 451,
00:11:29.53\00:11:31.46
she says, in order to
secure popularity and patronage
00:11:31.47\00:11:35.60
legislators will
yield to the demand
00:11:35.61\00:11:38.43
for a Sunday Law.
00:11:38.44\00:11:39.87
Will yield, what
do they yield to?
00:11:39.88\00:11:41.97
First of all, we have to
define who legislators are.
00:11:41.98\00:11:44.12
Hold on to power.
Who are legislators?
00:11:44.13\00:11:46.03
Legislators are the
congressional branch
00:11:46.04\00:11:48.35
and the executive branch.
00:11:48.36\00:11:49.98
Because the
executive branch can veto laws
00:11:49.99\00:11:52.32
or sign them into
laws, or execute them.
00:11:52.33\00:11:54.13
I think, she really
is-- Carry them out.
00:11:54.14\00:11:55.29
Probably talking Congress
rather than the President.
00:11:55.30\00:11:58.47
Well, I think it's
both, because the President
00:11:58.48\00:12:00.85
has the bully puppet
to get Congress to do
00:12:00.86\00:12:03.61
what it wants to do,
although this President
00:12:03.62\00:12:05.09
hasn't been very
successful at that.
00:12:05.10\00:12:06.72
President
Obama, I'm speaking of.
00:12:06.73\00:12:08.39
So when you look at
it, it's my whole point
00:12:08.40\00:12:10.80
is that it's not a
hierarchical thing.
00:12:10.81\00:12:13.25
It's we the people, the
fickle will of the people
00:12:13.26\00:12:16.84
is what causes
Revolutionary Movements.
00:12:16.85\00:12:18.82
It's a temporary thing
that creates instability
00:12:18.83\00:12:22.65
in society and as a
result what do they demand,
00:12:22.66\00:12:25.94
they demand that
legislators yield
00:12:25.95\00:12:27.88
to the demand for Sunday Law.
00:12:27.89\00:12:29.40
The revolutionary
paradigm or model is right there
00:12:29.41\00:12:32.17
in the fifth
volume of Testimonies,
00:12:32.18\00:12:33.22
page 451 by Ellen White.
00:12:33.23\00:12:34.89
And the enabling
shift in the United States
00:12:34.90\00:12:36.83
and I've spoken about
it on this program before.
00:12:36.84\00:12:39.85
Is that this was founded
as a representative government
00:12:39.86\00:12:42.64
by a bunch of not
old men but men of old
00:12:42.65\00:12:46.59
who had a deep
fear of the people.
00:12:46.60\00:12:49.15
Yes, they did.
00:12:49.16\00:12:50.24
They, or the
crowd or the majority
00:12:50.25\00:12:52.75
and we've seen the shift.
00:12:52.76\00:12:54.26
I've seen I wouldn't date
it much more than 10 years ago.
00:12:54.27\00:12:57.38
That it caught hold
in the United States
00:12:57.39\00:12:59.26
that if the majority
wants something it should go.
00:12:59.27\00:13:01.72
We've come to
majoritarian thinking.
00:13:01.73\00:13:04.43
That's exactly
what James Madison
00:13:04.44\00:13:06.29
wrote in a book that
I didn't bring with me.
00:13:06.30\00:13:07.95
But it's his documentation
of the first U.S. Congress
00:13:07.96\00:13:11.61
in 1789 regarding
the Bill of Rights.
00:13:11.62\00:13:13.97
And he wrote in there that
it was the fear of the people,
00:13:13.98\00:13:17.38
we the people, the
fickle world of people
00:13:17.39\00:13:19.66
getting out of
control. Absolutely.
00:13:19.67\00:13:21.16
That would create another
revolution that would undo,
00:13:21.17\00:13:23.77
undo the existing revolution.
00:13:23.78\00:13:25.40
That's my question that
they had a fear of that.
00:13:25.41\00:13:27.30
We'll be back after the break
to continue this discussion,
00:13:27.31\00:13:29.83
there's something very important
at play here. Stay with us.
00:13:29.84\00:13:33.42
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything,
00:13:41.81\00:13:45.38
much less publish a magazine,
00:13:45.39\00:13:47.51
but this year, Liberty,
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:47.52\00:13:50.69
voice of religious freedom,
celebrates one hundred years
00:13:50.70\00:13:53.93
of doing what it does
best, collecting, analyzing,
00:13:53.94\00:13:57.45
and reporting the ebb and flow
00:13:57.46\00:13:59.43
of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:59.44\00:14:01.81
Issue after
issue, Liberty has taken
00:14:01.82\00:14:04.76
on the tough assignments,
tracking down threats
00:14:04.77\00:14:07.19
to religious
freedom and exposing
00:14:07.20\00:14:08.86
the work of the devil in
every corner of the globe.
00:14:08.87\00:14:11.87
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:14:11.88\00:14:14.54
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:14:14.55\00:14:17.42
sequestered within the
Church community itself
00:14:17.43\00:14:19.59
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:14:19.60\00:14:22.61
Liberty exists for one
purpose, to help God's people
00:14:22.62\00:14:26.37
maintain that all
important separation
00:14:26.38\00:14:28.87
of Church and State,
while recognizing the dangers
00:14:28.88\00:14:31.92
inherent in such a struggle.
00:14:31.93\00:14:34.10
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:14:34.11\00:14:36.66
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:14:36.67\00:14:40.34
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line
00:14:40.35\00:14:42.93
of dedicated Adventist Editors,
00:14:42.94\00:14:44.53
three of whom represent almost
00:14:44.54\00:14:45.95
half of the
publication's existence
00:14:45.96\00:14:48.02
and the
foresight of a little woman
00:14:48.03\00:14:50.14
from New England.
00:14:50.15\00:14:51.37
One-hundred years of struggle,
00:14:51.38\00:14:53.37
one-hundred years of victories,
00:14:53.38\00:14:55.52
religious freedom isn't
just about political machines
00:14:55.53\00:14:58.64
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:58.65\00:15:00.30
It's about people
fighting for the right to serve
00:15:00.31\00:15:03.91
the God they
love as their hearts
00:15:03.92\00:15:06.25
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:15:06.26\00:15:08.60
Thanks to the
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00:15:08.61\00:15:10.77
of Seventh-day
Adventists everywhere.
00:15:10.78\00:15:12.92
Liberty will continue
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00:15:12.93\00:15:15.46
of providing timely information,
00:15:15.47\00:15:17.22
spirit filled inspiration,
00:15:17.23\00:15:18.77
and heaven sent encouragement
to all who long to live
00:15:18.78\00:15:22.71
and work in a world
bound together by the God
00:15:22.72\00:15:26.11
ordained bonds of
religious freedom.
00:15:26.12\00:15:29.44
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:15:39.34\00:15:41.07
Before the break,
with guest Gregg Hamilton,
00:15:41.08\00:15:43.52
we were talking about fear
00:15:43.53\00:15:46.73
of the framers
of the constitution,
00:15:46.74\00:15:49.40
the founding fathers,
really a fear of the people
00:15:49.41\00:15:52.03
or a majoritarian
view, the mob rule.
00:15:52.04\00:15:55.36
They did not want the mob rule
00:15:55.37\00:15:56.53
and the American
system in my view is designed
00:15:56.54\00:15:59.54
to put many, many
barriers between reflex response
00:15:59.55\00:16:02.89
from the electorate.
00:16:02.90\00:16:05.07
Well, they want it
worked up methodically,
00:16:05.08\00:16:06.89
but not just sort
of people to rise up
00:16:06.90\00:16:08.86
in the streets
and demand something.
00:16:08.87\00:16:10.77
There's, there are
basically two views
00:16:10.78\00:16:12.55
that arose out of the founding,
00:16:12.56\00:16:13.88
from the founders and
that is Jefferson's viewpoint,
00:16:13.89\00:16:16.89
which is that the
people, the will of the people
00:16:16.90\00:16:19.97
or the people know best.
00:16:19.98\00:16:21.11
And therefore
they're pro-revolutionary,
00:16:21.12\00:16:23.35
or he loved the
French Revolution.
00:16:23.36\00:16:26.07
Whereas they're to be trusted
00:16:26.08\00:16:27.92
and so
therefore let a revolution
00:16:27.93\00:16:30.48
occur every 19 years.
00:16:30.49\00:16:31.89
Let blood run
through the streets.
00:16:31.90\00:16:33.52
That was Jefferson's viewpoint.
00:16:33.53\00:16:35.27
However, there was
John Adams' viewpoint,
00:16:35.28\00:16:37.88
the
Federalist's party viewpoint,
00:16:37.89\00:16:39.33
Alexander Hamilton's viewpoint,
00:16:39.34\00:16:40.58
George Washington's viewpoint,
00:16:40.59\00:16:41.84
and even Madison's
for a time that people
00:16:41.85\00:16:45.90
were fickle and easily
worked up over nothing.
00:16:45.91\00:16:49.33
And usually over
something that's false,
00:16:49.34\00:16:51.39
don't have full
information over something.
00:16:51.40\00:16:54.20
And they're rushing headlong,
00:16:54.21\00:16:55.70
dumb and dumber into something
00:16:55.71\00:16:56.97
they don't
understand what they're doing.
00:16:56.98\00:16:58.46
So there's two
perspectives of government.
00:16:58.47\00:17:00.45
Now, you want me to tell
you something really radical?
00:17:00.46\00:17:02.37
Well, let me, let me,
let me share some with you.
00:17:02.38\00:17:04.11
It's Rush Limbaugh says
this on the radio all the time.
00:17:04.12\00:17:07.07
He says that all
the government just,
00:17:07.08\00:17:09.27
those liberals just want
you to think that you're stupid.
00:17:09.28\00:17:12.05
And that you guys
don't know anything.
00:17:12.06\00:17:13.92
And that you're dumb
and dumber when you're not.
00:17:13.93\00:17:15.74
And so the
republican right wing focus
00:17:15.75\00:17:18.93
is very much a
Jeffersonian perspective,
00:17:18.94\00:17:21.21
is that the people know best.
00:17:21.22\00:17:22.91
And right now the
liberals are painted
00:17:22.92\00:17:25.20
in the same
brushstroke as George Washington
00:17:25.21\00:17:27.71
and Alexander
Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin,
00:17:27.72\00:17:31.01
James Madison and John Adams,
00:17:31.02\00:17:33.34
that the people
are not to be trusted.
00:17:33.35\00:17:35.87
The people, yes,
are smart but many times
00:17:35.88\00:17:39.69
are worked up
through false information
00:17:39.70\00:17:42.57
and misleading information that
works them up into a lather.
00:17:42.58\00:17:46.02
And so there is, these
two, these two perspectives
00:17:46.03\00:17:49.43
so to speak that still
are with us to this very day.
00:17:49.44\00:17:52.02
Yeah, I agree with you.
00:17:52.03\00:17:53.00
The thing I wanted to
throw in and get your reaction,
00:17:53.01\00:17:55.06
because you probably overreact.
00:17:55.07\00:17:57.18
But I think it's
a fact of history
00:17:57.19\00:17:59.23
one of the reasons they thought
00:17:59.24\00:18:00.62
that is they had seen firsthand
00:18:00.63\00:18:02.60
how they could
manipulate the people.
00:18:02.61\00:18:05.46
I think the United States
00:18:05.47\00:18:06.84
probably would've
had a parting of the way,
00:18:06.85\00:18:08.49
sooner or the later
and it might have been
00:18:08.50\00:18:12.53
headed on the
track for violence.
00:18:12.54\00:18:13.82
But there's no
question when it happened.
00:18:13.83\00:18:16.21
A number of
these revolutionaries
00:18:16.22\00:18:18.13
with vested interests really
stirred the pot and polarized
00:18:18.14\00:18:22.02
the situation before a
lot of people really knew
00:18:22.03\00:18:24.65
what was
happening. You know. I've..
00:18:24.66\00:18:25.97
And that was
their whole goal to sign
00:18:25.98\00:18:27.93
the declaration of independence
00:18:27.94\00:18:29.10
to sort of cut the bridge
00:18:29.11\00:18:30.28
so that everyone would be
on their side of the river.
00:18:30.29\00:18:32.96
I've read a new
book by Joseph Ellis
00:18:32.97\00:18:34.66
that discounts that.
00:18:34.67\00:18:35.70
He actually says
that it was very difficult
00:18:35.71\00:18:38.03
to even get the
Continental Congress
00:18:38.04\00:18:40.94
to even agree,
the leading parties
00:18:40.95\00:18:43.14
from each of the
colonies to come together.
00:18:43.15\00:18:45.74
When they came together,
00:18:45.75\00:18:47.40
could not agree to go
to war against Britain.
00:18:47.41\00:18:49.94
They had the hardest time
00:18:49.95\00:18:51.22
even coming
together in a consensus--
00:18:51.23\00:18:53.29
to write a
declaration of independence.
00:18:53.30\00:18:54.75
So a number of
them did certain things
00:18:54.76\00:18:56.79
that basically
manipulated people
00:18:56.80\00:19:00.12
into a false either or situation
00:19:00.13\00:19:04.24
and then cutting the things
outside that the tie was cut.
00:19:04.25\00:19:07.06
what I'm trying to say is
most of the American people
00:19:07.07\00:19:09.22
were against a
revolution against Britain, yes.
00:19:09.23\00:19:11.62
And it was John Adams' speech
in the Continental Congress.
00:19:11.63\00:19:14.77
That really won the day saying
00:19:14.78\00:19:17.39
that we have to go
to war with Britain
00:19:17.40\00:19:19.81
if we are going to
form our own government
00:19:19.82\00:19:22.73
and be truly independent.
00:19:22.74\00:19:23.82
He says, this is
what it boils down to.
00:19:23.83\00:19:25.27
He says it's not about
differences in governing style.
00:19:25.28\00:19:28.11
He says really
we're one in the same cut.
00:19:28.12\00:19:30.30
We are the same people.
00:19:30.31\00:19:31.34
He says that's not the issue.
00:19:31.35\00:19:32.80
The issue is not
the Tea Party protest
00:19:32.81\00:19:36.20
or the Stamp Act or the,
00:19:36.21\00:19:38.65
you know, all
those different taxes
00:19:38.66\00:19:41.03
that were placed upon them.
00:19:41.04\00:19:42.16
That wasn't a real issue.
00:19:42.17\00:19:43.51
The real issue
is they definitely
00:19:43.52\00:19:45.19
wanted to be free and
independent from Britain.
00:19:45.20\00:19:47.14
It's a legitimate movement.
00:19:47.80\00:19:48.95
And one that the western world
00:19:48.96\00:19:50.23
and the British world
particularly was moving toward.
00:19:50.24\00:19:54.37
But even, I've read that
recently with my son schoolwork,
00:19:54.38\00:19:58.47
the language is
rather out of sync
00:19:58.48\00:20:00.86
with the reality
at least in the issues
00:20:00.87\00:20:03.59
that led up to the
American War of Independence.
00:20:03.60\00:20:06.52
You know, they called,
00:20:06.53\00:20:07.95
they talk about
tyranny and all the rest of it.
00:20:07.96\00:20:10.81
In a little hind
side, I think we know that,
00:20:10.82\00:20:13.57
that was
relatively speaking not so.
00:20:13.58\00:20:15.90
Their perception
became more and more that,
00:20:15.91\00:20:17.98
that was so and there
were good reasons to separate.
00:20:17.99\00:20:20.58
But my point is that,
I think that they swayed
00:20:20.59\00:20:24.06
the sensibilities of
the populus fairly easily
00:20:24.07\00:20:26.84
and they did not want
that to happen to them.
00:20:26.85\00:20:29.14
And the alien and sedition acts
00:20:29.15\00:20:31.62
as a further proof
to my argument that,
00:20:31.63\00:20:33.79
that they didn't.
They wanted to cut it off
00:20:33.80\00:20:36.27
when it was their case.
Yes, that, that is true.
00:20:36.28\00:20:38.45
But that was a very
small segment up in Vermont.
00:20:38.46\00:20:40.65
I mean that, that
was not a predominant
00:20:40.66\00:20:44.03
feeling across the country.
00:20:44.04\00:20:46.25
George Washington,
just wanted to make them--
00:20:46.26\00:20:47.91
Well, ask
Canadians. There is an awful
00:20:47.92\00:20:49.05
lot of Canadians
drifted up there.
00:20:49.06\00:20:50.35
George Washington
wanted to make them an example.
00:20:50.36\00:20:52.97
And he did a
very good job of that.
00:20:52.98\00:20:54.65
It was a chase rebellion.
00:20:54.66\00:20:55.85
Chase Rebellion,
Whiskey Rebellion and that's,
00:20:55.86\00:20:58.33
that's Hamilton is
the one that urged that
00:20:58.34\00:21:00.43
upon Washington,
and Washington agreed.
00:21:00.44\00:21:02.30
So he took it upon himself,
00:21:02.31\00:21:03.53
to crush that little
tiny revolt up there.
00:21:03.54\00:21:05.94
Yeah, but that was brought.
00:21:05.95\00:21:08.46
But they were problematic even
during the American Revolution.
00:21:08.47\00:21:11.25
They did not fight hardly for--
00:21:11.26\00:21:13.71
the American Revolution,
They were the one of the biggest
00:21:13.72\00:21:17.35
what you call it when people cut
and run from a war, deserters.
00:21:17.36\00:21:21.86
They were some
of the biggest now.
00:21:21.87\00:21:22.88
You people from Vermont,
00:21:22.89\00:21:24.18
if you're offended I apologize
00:21:24.19\00:21:26.31
but the
historical record is clear.
00:21:26.32\00:21:27.93
Well, it's so far
in the midst of history
00:21:27.94\00:21:30.39
that though individual
can take personal onwards.
00:21:30.40\00:21:32.62
Yes. But, there's
a dynamic of history
00:21:32.63\00:21:34.74
and in most revolutions
then and now the same.
00:21:34.75\00:21:39.25
It's a PR battle as
much as it is a literal one
00:21:39.26\00:21:42.96
against the
force you're opposing.
00:21:42.97\00:21:44.17
And, again my
point, I think that they,
00:21:44.18\00:21:47.57
they saw the dangers of a
constituency being manipulated
00:21:47.58\00:21:52.87
and they wanted to
create a stable system.
00:21:52.88\00:21:56.06
It was not a, I don't
think it was cynical thing.
00:21:56.07\00:21:58.79
They wanted a stable government
00:21:58.80\00:22:00.16
that was not subject to
this constant ebb and flow of--
00:22:00.17\00:22:03.87
Let's face America was founded
00:22:03.88\00:22:06.12
in a very
providential prophetic way
00:22:06.13\00:22:07.85
because, in terms of outcome,
00:22:07.86\00:22:09.91
there's no way Americans
00:22:09.92\00:22:11.11
should have won
the revolutionary war.
00:22:11.12\00:22:13.63
I mean, they were
out gunned, out manned.
00:22:13.64\00:22:15.53
They didn't have the
technology that Britain had.
00:22:15.54\00:22:18.56
We were suppose
to fail at every turn
00:22:18.57\00:22:20.41
and we were
practically wiped out
00:22:20.42\00:22:21.87
by the third-battle
and Washington held them
00:22:21.88\00:22:24.81
at Valley Forge and of
course, the rest is history.
00:22:24.82\00:22:27.27
The comeback
was slow and gradual
00:22:27.28\00:22:29.29
but then magic
happened at York Town,
00:22:29.30\00:22:32.25
which my
relative, Alexander Hamilton
00:22:32.26\00:22:34.96
won the last battle
taking out the last two readouts
00:22:34.97\00:22:38.17
and the French ships
blocking off the river there,
00:22:38.18\00:22:41.50
the entryway there,
00:22:41.51\00:22:43.85
and the British
troops could not escape.
00:22:43.86\00:22:46.37
And you and I both
agree from that study.
00:22:46.38\00:22:48.83
So that's providential.
00:22:48.84\00:22:50.39
From our study of prophecy,
00:22:50.40\00:22:51.52
there's a easily
read interpretation
00:22:51.53\00:22:56.64
as the United
States as a land prophesied
00:22:56.65\00:23:00.29
as a new land that
would protect freedom. Yes.
00:23:00.30\00:23:04.21
That's not the same as
American exceptionalism
00:23:04.22\00:23:07.23
or that it's everything
that it does is God's will.
00:23:07.24\00:23:10.40
But I think it fits
into the scheme of prophecy
00:23:10.41\00:23:13.04
and it did carry on.
00:23:13.05\00:23:15.44
And it goes back to
the puritan founding,
00:23:15.45\00:23:17.33
which is different from
the constitutional founding.
00:23:17.34\00:23:19.39
With the
constitutional founders,
00:23:19.40\00:23:20.56
but John Winthrop's
famous speech about this land,
00:23:20.57\00:23:24.05
we're to represent
God as if we were sitting
00:23:24.06\00:23:28.11
on a hill shining to
the rest of the world.
00:23:28.12\00:23:30.26
I mean, the
experimentation of freedom
00:23:30.27\00:23:33.00
really started with the puritans
00:23:33.01\00:23:34.39
even though they
handled it quite badly.
00:23:34.40\00:23:36.09
Ann Hutchison was--
Yes, was his downfall.
00:23:36.10\00:23:37.93
They handled it quite badly.
00:23:37.94\00:23:39.69
Him and John
Cotton and some others.
00:23:39.70\00:23:41.38
Specially the way
they treated Roger Williams
00:23:41.39\00:23:43.12
and Mary Dyer and some others
00:23:43.13\00:23:45.80
but yeah, Ann Hutchison.
00:23:45.81\00:23:47.93
But what you
have is a progression
00:23:47.94\00:23:50.25
towards
enlightenment and understanding
00:23:50.26\00:23:52.66
with the first
grade of awakening.
00:23:52.67\00:23:53.85
The second grade, or
the constitutional founding,
00:23:53.86\00:23:56.21
there is a second grade
of awakening in this country.
00:23:56.22\00:23:58.30
And of course,
then in the civil war,
00:23:58.31\00:24:00.10
I mean, it wasn't
without its fits and starts,
00:24:00.11\00:24:02.72
and lots of bloodshed.
00:24:02.73\00:24:04.60
And so I guess
when we talk about
00:24:04.61\00:24:06.98
revolutionary
paradigm or models,
00:24:06.99\00:24:08.88
versus civil war models,
00:24:08.89\00:24:10.99
what I think
we're looking at here
00:24:11.00\00:24:12.44
is far more dangerous
than a civil war model,
00:24:12.45\00:24:15.72
which was very dangerous.
00:24:15.73\00:24:16.73
I mean, how many
people died in that war.
00:24:16.74\00:24:18.78
Something like six
hundred thousand or something.
00:24:18.79\00:24:21.53
You know I mean--
close to a million.
00:24:21.54\00:24:23.11
Close to a million more
than any of the worse fought
00:24:23.12\00:24:25.35
combined any of
our theater and so.
00:24:25.36\00:24:29.06
You look at the
situation right now
00:24:29.07\00:24:31.28
and maybe we're panicking but--
00:24:31.29\00:24:33.64
Well, there's a
revolution of ideas.
00:24:33.65\00:24:35.92
There is. Yeah.
00:24:35.93\00:24:37.55
And there might
be a little violence.
00:24:37.56\00:24:38.93
But predominantly
I think it's a shift
00:24:38.94\00:24:41.43
in thinking about the country.
00:24:41.44\00:24:42.99
What it means?
What it'll do and so on.
00:24:43.00\00:24:45.11
And since we've
accepted that the strength
00:24:45.12\00:24:47.92
of the United
States is its high ideals,
00:24:47.93\00:24:50.43
its protection
of civil liberties,
00:24:50.44\00:24:52.37
religious
liberty, any rethinking
00:24:52.38\00:24:54.66
of its founding
principles will have huge
00:24:54.67\00:24:57.16
ramifications for
religious freedom.
00:24:57.17\00:24:58.99
And the stagnation
and the unwillingness
00:24:59.00\00:25:03.21
it seems to the federal
government especially Congress
00:25:03.22\00:25:05.49
to get the job done or
get things done economically.
00:25:05.50\00:25:08.43
To agree on anything or
to even compromise in anyway.
00:25:08.44\00:25:11.06
That, that, that clearly is
a sign of revolutionary fervor.
00:25:11.07\00:25:15.14
The more they stall
and the more they disagree,
00:25:15.15\00:25:17.55
the more the American
people are angry at them. Okay.
00:25:17.56\00:25:20.80
Which you'd think
that was a civil war
00:25:20.81\00:25:22.80
with the congressional
leaders banging heads
00:25:22.81\00:25:24.96
in their partisanship,
00:25:24.97\00:25:26.33
but in fact it's more
of a revolutionary model
00:25:26.34\00:25:29.36
where all sides on both left
00:25:29.37\00:25:31.55
and right are made
at the government. Yeah.
00:25:31.56\00:25:33.65
And so it was dangerous
to draw these parallels.
00:25:34.75\00:25:36.67
But I do think to Rome,
00:25:36.68\00:25:39.86
they entered into
their most dangerous phase
00:25:39.87\00:25:41.86
when the senate became
incapable of reelection.
00:25:41.87\00:25:44.46
Yes. In their case
it wasn't revolution
00:25:44.47\00:25:46.82
but it was a
strongman that inserted himself.
00:25:46.83\00:25:48.80
But something will
happen when you've got this--
00:25:48.81\00:25:50.77
You're kind of
Julius Caesar. Yes.
00:25:50.78\00:25:51.99
When you have this
legislative deadlock,
00:25:52.00\00:25:54.86
something has to break it.
00:25:54.87\00:25:56.17
Yes. It could be--
00:25:56.18\00:25:58.24
Dictatorship. A
violent overthrow of the body
00:25:58.25\00:26:00.45
or of a strongman
inserting himself instead of it.
00:26:00.46\00:26:03.53
Some charismatic
leader and, you know,
00:26:03.54\00:26:05.16
that wouldn't be
surprising to me.
00:26:05.17\00:26:06.82
And I feared dictatorship
for the longest time.
00:26:06.83\00:26:09.24
And there are certain candidates
that are alive and well
00:26:09.25\00:26:13.38
running in this
Presidential candidate.
00:26:13.39\00:26:15.06
We better not name them,
but there's always that--
00:26:15.07\00:26:16.24
They are candidates
that certainly have earmarks
00:26:16.25\00:26:19.49
of dictatorship or
potential for dictatorship
00:26:19.50\00:26:21.79
and it's pretty scaring.
00:26:21.80\00:26:22.77
And as always, we need to
pray that God will overrule.
00:26:22.78\00:26:26.67
If not overrule then
guide in the affairs of nations,
00:26:26.68\00:26:29.12
every nation in particularly
00:26:29.13\00:26:30.51
the United States
election at this crucial period.
00:26:30.52\00:26:34.50
Absolutely and so let's remember
00:26:34.51\00:26:36.94
the difference between a
civil war and a revolution.
00:26:36.95\00:26:39.60
I think we're in a
revolutionary mode.
00:26:39.61\00:26:41.32
Lincoln does too.
00:26:41.33\00:26:43.13
So, when you have
all factions going
00:26:43.14\00:26:44.85
after the
government, we clearly have one.
00:26:44.86\00:26:47.50
John Milton
wrote his Paradise Lost
00:26:49.34\00:26:52.55
quite some years ago.
00:26:52.56\00:26:54.64
But sometimes when I
listen to current events
00:26:54.65\00:26:57.44
I can hear
echoes of what he wrote.
00:26:57.45\00:27:00.32
It was said at the time
that one of his characters,
00:27:00.33\00:27:03.50
Lucifer, Satan
was almost the hero
00:27:03.51\00:27:06.60
of the story where he
was cast out of heaven
00:27:06.61\00:27:09.37
after open war
against the Most High.
00:27:09.38\00:27:13.11
When he gives those
speeches it's rousing
00:27:13.12\00:27:15.71
where he says that
it's better to be free
00:27:15.72\00:27:19.81
in hell than serve in heaven.
00:27:19.82\00:27:22.81
We need to be careful in
the Judeo-Christian society
00:27:22.82\00:27:25.66
in a democratic
society that we don't,
00:27:25.67\00:27:28.29
prayed our security
and our well thought out
00:27:28.30\00:27:32.28
constitutional protections
for sort of a Luciferian freedom
00:27:32.29\00:27:36.82
where we challenge everything
00:27:36.83\00:27:38.40
and bring
everything down upon our heads.
00:27:38.41\00:27:40.55
We live in dangerous
time, there's no question.
00:27:41.61\00:27:44.56
And whether it's Tea
Party or Occupy Wall Street.
00:27:44.57\00:27:47.99
All of these things
can be very self indulgent,
00:27:48.00\00:27:51.14
very opposed to
rule of law and order
00:27:51.15\00:27:54.56
and ultimately by
their ramifications
00:27:54.57\00:27:56.99
oppose to freedom of will,
00:27:57.00\00:27:58.60
freedom of conscience
and freedom of religion.
00:27:58.61\00:28:01.80
This is Lincoln
Steed for Liberty Insider.
00:28:03.06\00:28:06.24