Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program
bringing you discussion,
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news and up to date
views on religious liberty
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in the U.S. and
around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And my guest on the
program, Gregg Hamilton,
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President of the Northwest
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Religious Liberty Association.
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Good to be with you, Lincoln.
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There's a lot we can talk about
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but I'm gonna launch off
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with a T.V.
program called Jeeves.
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You've ever watched?
Jeeves, no I haven't.
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I remember that was
a crazy British comedy.
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You know one point there was
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a rather eccentric young man
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who wanted to
propose to a woman.
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He lost his nerve
and he instead descended
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to discussing his
hobby which was keeping
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newts and salamanders.
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And the statement was,
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it was lost the minute
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he started talking about newts.
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Well, U.S. presidential campaign
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is in that same phase.
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Newt Gingrich is
suddenly is top of the heap.
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Yeah he's risen to the polls,
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he's even
topping Mitt Romney now,
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which is amazing
comeback for this guy.
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But to me it
represents a scary sign.
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The entire
Republican pack wasn't trusted
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by the Republican
electorate and Mitt Romney
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who has been holding steady
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and kind of the leading the pack
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is not an enthusiastic candidate
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in the minds of tea partiers
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or conservative Republicans
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or of the
fundamental evangelical right.
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Yeah, why is it,
is it think it's but--
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I'll answer my question.
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I think Newt's
religious affiliation
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is the stumbling block
for too many people, isn't it?
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Well, because he's
a Lauderdale Saint,
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a "Mormon," that's
problematic for some people.
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And I can understand
some of their reasoning
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but I would have to say that,
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when I look at
Article VI Section 3 of
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U.S. constitution
where it says basically--
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No religious test--
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No religious test
should be applied to anybody
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appointed to public office,
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or running for public office,
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to me that's very significant.
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So, I mean, the
same thing occurred
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when Jack Kennedy was
running for president.
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Now, many Seventh-day Adventist
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of course were troubled back in,
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when Jack Kennedy was running
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because we saw
prophetic fulfillment.
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But constitutionally
we need to be very plain.
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When we stand
for religious freedom
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in the United States,
we can't object someone
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just because of
their religion, yes.
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We can draw a construct
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because of their
religious activities that
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maybe something's going on.
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And we've an article
coming up in Liberty Magazine
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by Jonathan
Turley a law professor
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George Washington University,
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and he wrote an article for us
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and similar material in
a Washington Post Column,
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where he pointed out the extreme
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and usually
inappropriate use of religion
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in this current
presidential campaign.
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And that's really
where we're starting from,
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Isn't it. I had a--
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There's a
religious, very clear religious
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dynamic that's, that
makes you a little troubled.
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Why I even had a church member
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write me one time
and say, you know,
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we should demand
that no Catholics,
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no more Catholics be
on the U.S. Supreme Court.
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I said, well I
said, constitutionally
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that would be wrong,
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I said, have you ever
read Article VI, Section 3.
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He hadn't, so when I
shared that him I said,
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we can't object to a Catholic
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serving on U.S. Supreme Court.
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There are 6 Catholics and 3 Jews
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on the U.S. Supreme
Court right now, yeah.
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There's no Protestant,
but that doesn't mean
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that they don't
have a right to serve
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or even to be appointed.
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I consider it a major
sign of times, mind you.
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Absolutely, it may signal that
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there's a significant
shift in society, yes.
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And the aspirations of
different religious groups,
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but it's not a
constitutional problem,
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nor directly a
religious freedom problem.
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I read in this one
economist magazine,
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they-- it was in
reference to Catholics
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rising in the Supreme Court.
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And it was an
economist in the Lexington
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section of Economist Magazine.
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And in there it was
quoting, oh, what's his name,
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Dr. Noll from Notre Dame
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anyway he wrote the
book several years ago
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The Scandal of
the Evangelical Mind.
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He says, the scandal is that
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there is no evangelical mind.
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And that's the problem he says,
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if you look at
the Catholic schools
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from elementary
school all the way up
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to the university,
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they got a
wonderful educational system,
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they're very astute.
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It's like
Protestantism is dead--
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essentially buried.
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And so the
intellectuals aren't coming up
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through the protestant world,
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they're coming up through
which is basically agnostic
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and all most humanist
and atheistic these days.
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But as everybody is rising up
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through the Catholic ranks
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and so their influence is seems
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almost like
superman so to speak.
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But in fact it is
real and it is a sign
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of the times in this country.
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And but we, I should say that
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it's not
necessarily at this point
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a monolithic way of thinking.
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Because of those, six
Supreme Court justices,
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they're not all of the
same political persuasion.
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So it's not a-- Correct.
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Justice Kennedy is a moderate
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and he's a Catholic
and that helps, yeah.
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So and we'll talk
about that in the minute.
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But I do think it derives from
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any number of encouragements
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that system is
being given, given
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for the members to
move in the public life
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and to even on the Dies Domini,
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it said that they should work
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for laws that
uphold Sunday worship.
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I'm one who's just--
This is not by chance.
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I am one who is
just as concerned about
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President Obama as
I am the Republican
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primary pack-- the candidates
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that are running for nomination,
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become nominated to be President
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or the Presidential Candidate
for the Republican side.
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I'm quite upset with both sides.
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Because as I'd
explained earlier about Obama's
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International
Religious Freedom policy.
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In other program, he's approach
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to religious
freedom is just as harmful
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as the religious rights program,
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because it
focuses on this whole idea
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that you've a right to
peacefully coexist especially
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in the third-world countries
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and especially
Arab Muslim world.
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He hasn't adopted that motto
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for U.S.
constitutional law for sure
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or even the western world.
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But never the less,
his approach assumes
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this approach of,
that we need to return
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to religious
tolerance not the full guarantee
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of religious freedom,
enshrined by the constitution
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and so that's,
that's problematic.
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But on the right you have people
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that are off the charts radical.
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And so really
whoever becomes the nominee
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for president, it becomes a--
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on the Republican ticket.
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Becomes a problem,
it puts all of us voters
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between a rock and a hard
place, let me explain why.
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Mitt Romney, the
would be frontrunner
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who isn't anymore,
his constitutional adviser
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that he's hired on is failed
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Supreme Court
nominee Judge Robert Bork.
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Now what does
Robert Bork believes,
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well Robert Bork
believes the same thing
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that Newt Gingrich believes
who's now ahead in the polls.
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And that's the idea
that constitutionally
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the First Ten
Amendments or the Bill of Rights
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only apply in their thinking
to the Federal Government.
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So therefore state
should be able to do anything
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they want, in
terms of civil rights,
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human rights even
going as far as to establish
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or reestablish
churches through local taxation.
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Now that's, that's
the pretty extreme.
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Now, but it's not that
they understand something
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that other people
don't quite see it.
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It's a philosophical
shift where they're really
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refusing to accept the
results of the civil war
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and what the 14th--
14th Amendment, yeah.
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Because it's not a
question that originally
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those rights
were really only to do
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with the Federal
Government, right.
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And this was the United States
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was a correlation of 13.
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Right. Original colonies. Right.
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They would've to
be sovereign states,
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united states.
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It's not united provinces,
these were national states.
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But they forget that
the states on their own
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at that time during
the American founding,
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even prior to even the
constitutional dimension
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1787 already began
disestablishing there.
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Oh yes, the argument of history
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is on our side that
that's where it was going.
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Right. That's why they
adopted that national law.
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Right, but the
facts are and these types
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seem to want to overturn it.
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Right. But
there was a civil war.
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Right, that the
whole dynamic between
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states and the
Federal Government shifted
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and laws
regularly now are projected
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through to the states
from the federal level.
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What happened is
the Supreme Court
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was basically what
came about later actually
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in U.S.
constitutional jurisprudence
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in the early twentieth century
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and that was called
the incorporation doctrine.
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That is the Bills
of Rights empowered
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the Federal Government
to regulate the states
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especially when it
came to blacks having
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the right to not only
be citizens but to vote,
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citizenship is in
the 14th Amendment,
00:09:25.96\00:09:28.11
the Right of Vote is
in the 15th Amendment.
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Emancipation of
course which freed them
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was the 13th Amendment,
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the Emancipation
Proclamation Act by Lincoln.
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So you have those 3
civil war amendments.
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But the
incorporation doctrine says that
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the due process
clause, the religious
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and immunities clause,
the equal access clause
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all apply to the states
by the Federal Government.
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So, that's huge and
that's what they want to ignore
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or eviscerate or even
undo and that's problematic.
00:09:53.54\00:09:57.30
So this is a--
we're looking at not just
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a few campaign promises.
00:10:00.24\00:10:01.52
These are serious
radical shifts in the way
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the constitution
itself is regarded,
00:10:05.22\00:10:07.72
in a practical
way for people living
00:10:07.73\00:10:09.37
in those individual states.
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I've heard something
on the news the other day
00:10:11.16\00:10:12.74
that I think
illustrates the thoroughly
00:10:12.75\00:10:15.03
the appropriate
way religion has been
00:10:15.04\00:10:16.70
banded around as a play.
00:10:16.71\00:10:22.08
Rick Perry, the other
day, famously was about
00:10:22.09\00:10:25.82
to deteriorate
his 3 main points.
00:10:25.83\00:10:27.70
The things that he
would do away with.
00:10:27.71\00:10:29.01
Yes, like, you
would think that will be
00:10:29.02\00:10:31.20
important of the candidate,
00:10:31.21\00:10:32.18
couldn't remember the last one.
00:10:32.19\00:10:33.17
Yeah, and that
seems to have sent him
00:10:33.18\00:10:35.56
down on the polls.
00:10:35.57\00:10:36.72
So one wag on a comedy
show said that Rick Perry
00:10:36.73\00:10:42.12
was at trouble
with the religionists,
00:10:42.13\00:10:43.96
which you don't
want to be right now.
00:10:43.97\00:10:45.88
And people are
making great professions
00:10:45.89\00:10:47.74
of orthodoxy or in
one case one candidate
00:10:47.75\00:10:51.17
Michele
Bachmann actually changed
00:10:51.18\00:10:52.82
her religious affiliation
to be more acceptable
00:10:52.83\00:10:55.53
than what she thought
was the vote of block.
00:10:55.54\00:10:57.66
And they said, well, Rick Perry,
00:10:57.67\00:10:59.27
you know he
remembered the father
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and the son but if
he got the holy ghost.
00:11:00.59\00:11:02.40
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:02.41\00:11:04.83
It's a rude sort of a statement
00:11:04.84\00:11:06.46
but it's become that important
00:11:06.47\00:11:08.44
for these
candidates to be acceptable
00:11:08.45\00:11:10.45
to what they see as the
conservative religious base.
00:11:10.46\00:11:13.40
Well, but it even goes
to more extreme than that,
00:11:13.41\00:11:16.23
I mean, God bless
her but Michele Bachmann
00:11:16.24\00:11:19.87
is into a luminary
conspiracy theories,
00:11:19.88\00:11:22.56
John Birch Society
conspiracy theories
00:11:22.57\00:11:25.28
and you know there is,
00:11:25.29\00:11:28.66
the Trilateral
Commission's coming to get you.
00:11:28.67\00:11:31.03
You know, the
Illuminati is coming
00:11:31.04\00:11:32.25
to get you, type mentality.
00:11:32.26\00:11:34.00
And I know that may
seem fair to some of you
00:11:34.01\00:11:36.09
in our audience
but if you really
00:11:36.10\00:11:37.66
checkout their background.
00:11:37.67\00:11:40.83
You will discover this,
not from extreme left-wing
00:11:40.84\00:11:43.60
sources but from
mainstream credible sources.
00:11:43.61\00:11:46.37
And people who
are concerned even
00:11:46.38\00:11:48.49
on the evangelical
right, that don't want
00:11:48.50\00:11:50.95
to see a Michele
Bachmann presidency.
00:11:50.96\00:11:53.87
And Karl Rove himself, who was
00:11:53.88\00:11:55.76
George Bush's lead adviser.
00:11:55.77\00:11:57.90
Who thinks that some
of these people are real
00:11:57.91\00:11:59.82
looney tunes
especially Rick Perry,
00:11:59.83\00:12:01.78
according Karl Rove,
who can't stand him so.
00:12:01.79\00:12:04.66
But the point I'll make and
I hope you'll agree with me.
00:12:04.67\00:12:08.46
I don't want to
give chapter and verse
00:12:08.47\00:12:09.79
but I know studying U.S. history
00:12:09.80\00:12:11.50
there are been some people
00:12:11.51\00:12:12.88
with some personal
looney views, oh yes.
00:12:12.89\00:12:15.54
On religion and other
conspiracies or whatever,
00:12:15.55\00:12:18.89
that have made their
way to the top office.
00:12:18.90\00:12:20.64
Yes, but they've not offered
00:12:20.65\00:12:23.99
or been allowed the
chance to mix that into the--
00:12:24.00\00:12:26.64
They were chalked.
00:12:26.65\00:12:28.15
But we've this
election as much as any
00:12:28.16\00:12:30.72
and its been
happening for the last few
00:12:30.73\00:12:32.86
is that these
things are put out in about
00:12:32.87\00:12:35.12
and they're publicly
debated and in some cases
00:12:35.13\00:12:37.69
they even play on it
because it has a constituency.
00:12:37.70\00:12:40.90
That's the improper
use of religion. Right.
00:12:40.91\00:12:44.69
I don't think
that would, you know,
00:12:44.70\00:12:45.97
no religious test I
think means hopefully
00:12:45.98\00:12:48.64
that the intelligent
electorate would look
00:12:48.65\00:12:50.92
at all of that person
does and if their personal
00:12:50.93\00:12:53.44
religious views are
submerged they're not,
00:12:53.45\00:12:56.21
you know, mixing
it in an avert way
00:12:56.22\00:12:59.80
with their public actions.
00:12:59.81\00:13:03.24
Then it's not
really a concern. Yeah.
00:13:03.25\00:13:05.87
But the church
and state have been
00:13:05.88\00:13:09.09
thoroughly mangled
during the campaign.
00:13:09.10\00:13:11.59
We'll back after the break
to discuss this little bit more.
00:13:11.60\00:13:15.51
What's happening in
the election campaign
00:13:15.52\00:13:17.36
in the United States
and proper and improper use
00:13:17.37\00:13:20.16
of religion and
religious affiliation.
00:13:20.17\00:13:24.23
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything,
00:13:32.03\00:13:35.90
much less publish a
magazine, but this year,
00:13:35.91\00:13:38.87
Liberty, the
Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:38.88\00:13:41.03
voice of religious freedom,
celebrates one hundred years
00:13:41.04\00:13:44.41
of doing what it does
best, collecting, analyzing,
00:13:44.42\00:13:47.86
and reporting the ebb and flow
00:13:47.87\00:13:49.71
of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:49.72\00:13:52.42
Issue after
issue, Liberty has taken
00:13:52.43\00:13:55.06
on the tough assignments,
tracking down threats
00:13:55.07\00:13:57.62
to religious
freedom and exposing
00:13:57.63\00:13:59.20
the work of the devil in
every corner of the globe.
00:13:59.21\00:14:02.32
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:14:02.33\00:14:05.09
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:14:05.10\00:14:07.80
sequestered within the
Church community itself
00:14:07.81\00:14:10.20
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:14:10.21\00:14:13.22
Liberty exists for one
purpose, to help God's people
00:14:13.23\00:14:16.74
maintain that all
important separation
00:14:16.75\00:14:19.21
of Church and State,
while recognizing the dangers
00:14:19.22\00:14:22.25
inherent in such a struggle.
00:14:22.26\00:14:24.40
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:14:24.41\00:14:26.96
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:14:26.97\00:14:30.54
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line
00:14:30.55\00:14:33.26
of dedicated Adventist Editors,
00:14:33.27\00:14:34.98
three of whom represent almost
00:14:34.99\00:14:36.29
half of the
publication's existence
00:14:36.30\00:14:38.39
and the
foresight of a little woman
00:14:38.40\00:14:40.17
from New England.
00:14:40.18\00:14:41.58
One hundred years of struggle,
00:14:41.59\00:14:43.71
one hundred years of victories,
00:14:43.72\00:14:45.95
religious freedom isn't
just about political machines
00:14:45.96\00:14:49.11
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:49.12\00:14:50.77
It's about people
fighting for the right to serve
00:14:50.78\00:14:54.25
the God they
love as their hearts
00:14:54.26\00:14:56.57
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:56.58\00:14:59.03
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:14:59.04\00:15:01.10
of Seventh-day
Adventists everywhere.
00:15:01.11\00:15:03.38
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work
00:15:03.39\00:15:05.76
of providing timely information,
00:15:05.77\00:15:07.64
spirit filled inspiration,
00:15:07.65\00:15:09.08
and heaven sent encouragement
to all who long to live
00:15:09.09\00:15:12.99
and work in a world
bound together by the God
00:15:13.00\00:15:16.48
ordained bonds of
religious freedom.
00:15:16.49\00:15:20.68
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider
00:15:30.07\00:15:31.75
before the break
with guest Gregg Hamilton.
00:15:31.76\00:15:34.85
We were talking about
the presidential election
00:15:34.86\00:15:37.29
which had an early beginning
it seems to be the cycle.
00:15:37.30\00:15:41.60
But there's a lot
of talk about religion
00:15:41.61\00:15:43.99
and candidates are rising
and falling for many reasons.
00:15:44.00\00:15:47.61
You know, sexual
harassment one of them,
00:15:47.62\00:15:49.79
but also their acceptability
00:15:49.80\00:15:52.39
with different
religious factions
00:15:52.40\00:15:53.78
is playing a big pardon.
00:15:53.79\00:15:55.01
This is true, Newt Gingrich
00:15:55.02\00:15:56.39
who's marital
past speaks for itself,
00:15:56.40\00:15:58.60
but his book
Rediscovering God in America,
00:15:58.61\00:16:01.40
Reflections on the Role of Faith
00:16:01.41\00:16:02.92
in Our Nations' History
in Future, is very clear
00:16:02.93\00:16:05.97
what he intends for
the future of this country.
00:16:05.98\00:16:08.40
And that is, he
advocates in this book
00:16:08.41\00:16:12.19
that the Supreme
Court should be banned
00:16:12.20\00:16:14.44
through constitutional
amendment from hearing,
00:16:14.45\00:16:17.59
making any rulings
on the free exercise
00:16:17.60\00:16:21.56
and establishment
clauses of the First Amendment.
00:16:21.57\00:16:23.74
In fact he goes as far as to say
00:16:23.75\00:16:26.07
along with
Justice Clarence Thomas
00:16:26.08\00:16:29.51
on the U.S. Supreme Court.
00:16:29.52\00:16:31.42
And he gets these ideas
00:16:31.43\00:16:33.21
a lot of them from David Barton.
00:16:33.22\00:16:34.89
Yes, I've heard many
in the religious right
00:16:34.90\00:16:37.05
have been pushing this idea.
00:16:37.06\00:16:38.39
They don't like
the activist judges
00:16:38.40\00:16:40.71
particularly Supreme Court
00:16:40.72\00:16:41.76
legislating from the bench. Law.
00:16:41.77\00:16:42.80
They just want to cut
them off at the knees.
00:16:42.81\00:16:44.29
They're
ignoring the constitution
00:16:44.30\00:16:46.98
and the balance of power,
00:16:46.99\00:16:48.30
that were purposely
put into the system.
00:16:48.31\00:16:50.18
Their argument essentially
is that the Federal Government,
00:16:50.19\00:16:55.04
the first 10 Amendments
were only intended to bar--
00:16:55.05\00:16:58.46
were intended to bar
the Federal Government
00:16:58.47\00:17:00.56
from regulating the
states for having them
00:17:00.57\00:17:02.72
apply at the state level.
00:17:02.73\00:17:03.81
And we talked
about that earlier.
00:17:03.82\00:17:05.54
But here he's saying
that the Supreme Court
00:17:05.55\00:17:07.86
should be barred for
making any ruling on any issue
00:17:07.87\00:17:11.19
having to do with
religious freedom.
00:17:11.20\00:17:13.03
Now that's-- That's a bizarre.
00:17:13.04\00:17:14.44
That's pretty
radically is also advocated
00:17:14.45\00:17:16.51
that the Ninth
Circuit Federal Appeals Court
00:17:16.52\00:17:19.39
should be done away with.
00:17:19.40\00:17:20.67
Okay, should be disbanded.
00:17:20.68\00:17:22.50
Which is really radical.
00:17:22.51\00:17:23.87
I mean it is, it is
almost authoritarian
00:17:23.88\00:17:27.75
and it's pretty scary
if you ask me because--
00:17:27.76\00:17:29.94
It would be taking in this area,
00:17:29.95\00:17:32.01
effectively taking out
00:17:32.02\00:17:33.24
one-third of the
governmental system.
00:17:33.25\00:17:36.10
You know these
three arms of government
00:17:36.11\00:17:37.80
that are in some
opposition on purpose,
00:17:37.81\00:17:41.01
which was to limit.
00:17:41.02\00:17:42.17
It limit a
government, without one
00:17:42.18\00:17:44.18
or certainly without two
you've got a dictatorship,
00:17:44.19\00:17:46.37
either, you know, it
could be the president
00:17:46.38\00:17:48.53
or the legislature or judiciary.
00:17:48.54\00:17:51.57
So under the
claim that the judiciary
00:17:51.58\00:17:53.84
have been acting
unilaterally to take them out
00:17:53.85\00:17:57.10
creates the
likelihood that they'll be more
00:17:57.11\00:17:58.91
unilateral action from
the other parts, right? Yes.
00:17:58.92\00:18:01.96
But here's is-- one
of the main examples
00:18:01.97\00:18:05.10
he gives in the book
it's called Santa Fe versus,
00:18:05.11\00:18:07.69
Santa Fe School District
versus Bush in the year 1988,
00:18:07.70\00:18:11.68
which the case
was finally decided
00:18:11.69\00:18:13.70
ruled upon in 2000 by
the U.S. Supreme Court.
00:18:13.71\00:18:16.92
And in that case
the Supreme Court
00:18:16.93\00:18:19.31
ruled on a case
involving prayers by students--
00:18:19.32\00:18:22.68
prior to football games.
00:18:22.69\00:18:24.19
The Supreme Court
had a hearing on it,
00:18:24.20\00:18:25.68
they did an investigation,
00:18:25.69\00:18:26.77
they discovered that the
kids that were doing the prayers
00:18:26.78\00:18:29.61
before the football
were doing a voluntarily--
00:18:29.62\00:18:32.01
were not doing it voluntarily,
00:18:32.02\00:18:33.87
they were encouraged
and organized by the staff
00:18:33.88\00:18:36.61
or the administration
of the school. Okay.
00:18:36.62\00:18:38.92
Thus making it a
violation of the establishing
00:18:38.93\00:18:41.02
clause of the
1st Amendment. Okay.
00:18:41.03\00:18:42.90
So, so many talk
show hosts Rush Limbaugh,
00:18:42.91\00:18:46.45
Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly,
00:18:46.46\00:18:49.01
all these guys got on the radio,
00:18:49.02\00:18:50.80
Glenn Beck on T.V. says,
00:18:50.81\00:18:52.27
"look, they've thrown God
out of public school again."
00:18:52.28\00:18:55.02
And they didn't
bother to read the opinion
00:18:55.03\00:18:57.38
that was rendered
by the Supreme Court.
00:18:57.39\00:18:59.38
And the Supreme Court
clearly said in the opinion
00:18:59.39\00:19:01.60
and in the investigation that
we've ruled on many occasions
00:19:01.61\00:19:04.92
that if its student
led and it's voluntary.
00:19:04.93\00:19:08.12
It's done
voluntarily by the students
00:19:08.13\00:19:10.32
that it is not unconstitutional.
00:19:10.33\00:19:12.48
But what happens. But
what they consistent--
00:19:12.49\00:19:13.56
But what
happened, what happened?
00:19:13.57\00:19:15.41
All the
newspapers across the South
00:19:15.42\00:19:17.22
and different
parts of the U.S. says,
00:19:17.23\00:19:19.12
we're going to protest
this Supreme Court ruling
00:19:19.13\00:19:21.46
because we think this is wrong
00:19:21.47\00:19:23.33
and they throwing God
00:19:23.34\00:19:24.33
out of the public
school is against it.
00:19:24.34\00:19:25.50
We're gonna protest
this ruling by doing prayers,
00:19:25.51\00:19:27.75
having prayers before
football games anyway.
00:19:27.76\00:19:30.00
But by their very act
of doing it voluntarily
00:19:30.01\00:19:32.89
they were actually upholding
00:19:32.90\00:19:34.04
the very
supreme courts decisions
00:19:34.05\00:19:35.48
that had been handed
out and they didn't know it.
00:19:35.49\00:19:37.88
It was like one--
Lot of disinformation.
00:19:37.89\00:19:39.98
It was like one
sheep going over the cliff
00:19:39.99\00:19:41.86
after another sheep
into the sea to their death.
00:19:41.87\00:19:44.69
And they don't realize
00:19:44.70\00:19:45.85
that they don't know
what they are talking about.
00:19:45.86\00:19:47.41
Yeah, we've had many programs
00:19:47.42\00:19:49.74
or topics on this
program dealing with this
00:19:49.75\00:19:52.05
and this is what I think
00:19:52.06\00:19:54.11
most people don't understand it.
00:19:54.12\00:19:55.72
And that there is
a clear distinction
00:19:55.73\00:19:57.24
fact it's the
distinction to make
00:19:57.25\00:19:59.60
between
religious activity required
00:19:59.61\00:20:02.77
or organized by the state/school
00:20:02.78\00:20:05.94
and the right of
the individual, student
00:20:05.95\00:20:08.45
or otherwise even teacher
00:20:08.46\00:20:10.62
for religious
expression in their own right.
00:20:10.63\00:20:13.47
Newt Gingrich has
been so influential
00:20:13.48\00:20:15.91
that he's actually
encouraged Congress,
00:20:15.92\00:20:17.58
I was reading an article
from the new republic magazine
00:20:17.59\00:20:21.13
regarding this very thing
00:20:21.14\00:20:22.99
in fact it even
accuse liberals of wanting to
00:20:23.00\00:20:25.20
amend the
constitution so to satisfy
00:20:25.21\00:20:27.62
their own political agenda.
00:20:27.63\00:20:29.06
But let me talk to
you one of the reasons
00:20:29.07\00:20:31.55
why I have a
concern, some people assume
00:20:31.56\00:20:35.65
that just because
you're a Republican,
00:20:35.66\00:20:40.86
they assume that
we're Republicans
00:20:40.87\00:20:42.46
as Seventh-day
Adventist Christians
00:20:42.47\00:20:43.58
because we're
against labor unions.
00:20:43.59\00:20:45.75
Okay, traditionally
that has been somewhat true.
00:20:45.76\00:20:49.89
The problem I have with
that thinking these days is
00:20:49.90\00:20:53.23
if you watch the
Tea Party convention.
00:20:53.24\00:20:55.49
The very first one in Nashville,
00:20:55.50\00:20:56.92
Sarah Palin got up to
speak and for about 5 minutes
00:20:56.93\00:20:59.49
she made this huge appeal
to unemployed, blue collar,
00:20:59.50\00:21:05.95
labor union members to
come join the Tea Party okay.
00:21:05.96\00:21:09.42
Percentage wise
according to David Brooks
00:21:09.43\00:21:11.29
in the New York Times
12% of the Tea Party today
00:21:11.30\00:21:14.75
is labor union members.
00:21:14.76\00:21:16.70
Proof of that is
Wall Street Journal,
00:21:16.71\00:21:19.03
when Scot Brown
took Ted Kennedy's seat
00:21:19.04\00:21:22.58
in the U.S. senate,
very powerful senator, okay.
00:21:22.59\00:21:25.84
When he ran as a
Tea Party candidate
00:21:25.85\00:21:27.56
and won that election,
00:21:27.57\00:21:29.10
the Wall Street Journal
in one of its headlines,
00:21:29.11\00:21:31.73
"union households
gave boost to GOP's Brown,
00:21:31.74\00:21:35.05
Republican Party, Scot Brown."
00:21:35.06\00:21:36.88
And what did they say in there,
00:21:36.89\00:21:37.88
59% of the AFL-CIO
voted for Scot Brown.
00:21:37.89\00:21:42.44
Now what does it say?
00:21:42.45\00:21:43.72
It says this, that
you cannot rely on party
00:21:43.73\00:21:47.54
if you think that just
because you're Republican
00:21:47.55\00:21:50.68
and I'm a Republican mind you,
00:21:50.69\00:21:51.97
maybe that's here
nor there. You don't to.
00:21:51.98\00:21:53.89
I know but I did,
but my point is that
00:21:53.90\00:21:56.68
when I lobbying in Olympia
00:21:56.69\00:21:58.42
regarding this in Washington
00:21:58.43\00:22:00.19
for this against this
forced unionization bill.
00:22:00.20\00:22:03.10
Olympia is the
capital State in Washington...
00:22:03.11\00:22:04.26
Olympia is the
capital in Washington.
00:22:04.27\00:22:06.44
But it was the
forced unionization
00:22:06.45\00:22:07.89
of all child care centers,
00:22:07.90\00:22:10.26
public as well as
private and religious.
00:22:10.27\00:22:12.70
In fact, the service employees'
00:22:12.71\00:22:14.18
international union at
the time was pushing this.
00:22:14.19\00:22:16.58
So it had gone through the house
00:22:16.59\00:22:18.11
we caught the bill
late in the senate.
00:22:18.12\00:22:19.93
I testified in the
senate labor committee hearing
00:22:19.94\00:22:24.33
and we got it to the
Ways And Means Committee,
00:22:24.34\00:22:26.86
urged the Republican
senator to put cost on the bill.
00:22:26.87\00:22:30.69
Thus putting it into
the Ways And Means Committee
00:22:30.70\00:22:32.45
where we can
hopefully kill it, we thought.
00:22:32.46\00:22:34.96
But when we heard
that it was very much alive
00:22:34.97\00:22:36.79
and well and that it would get
00:22:36.80\00:22:38.56
past through the
Ways And Means Committee.
00:22:38.57\00:22:40.68
I decided that I
got to go up there
00:22:40.69\00:22:42.57
to the Washington
capital and I've got to spend
00:22:42.58\00:22:45.09
you know twelve hour
to eighteen hour days.
00:22:45.10\00:22:46.99
Lobbying senators on
both sides of the aisle
00:22:47.00\00:22:49.42
against this bill.
00:22:49.43\00:22:51.25
My most receptive audience
was 10 conservative Democrats
00:22:51.26\00:22:55.55
who essentially
helped me kill the bill.
00:22:55.56\00:22:57.86
Five Republicans out of
the nineteen Republicans
00:22:57.87\00:23:00.81
that were there
were for this bill
00:23:00.82\00:23:03.51
and all of them, and
God bless her hearts,
00:23:03.52\00:23:06.67
but all of them were Catholic,
00:23:06.68\00:23:08.98
Tea Party supporters, senators.
00:23:08.99\00:23:11.28
One of them who
was my own senator
00:23:11.29\00:23:13.43
in Clark County in Vancouver,
Washington, all right.
00:23:13.44\00:23:16.27
He was one of the
leading proponents.
00:23:16.28\00:23:17.71
In fact when it got
around to the Republican caucus,
00:23:17.72\00:23:21.04
that 5 of their own
members were pushing this bill,
00:23:21.05\00:23:23.67
heads were revolving,
00:23:23.68\00:23:24.73
people were really
upset but the work paid off
00:23:24.74\00:23:28.03
we were able to kill the bill.
00:23:28.04\00:23:29.50
But it was a very
eye opening thing to me
00:23:29.51\00:23:31.64
to see that, you know,
00:23:31.65\00:23:33.20
despite what some might say
00:23:33.21\00:23:35.60
and with the growing influence
00:23:35.61\00:23:36.75
of the Catholic Church
in terms of political might
00:23:36.76\00:23:40.57
and power within our system,
00:23:40.58\00:23:42.02
both at the state
and federal level.
00:23:42.03\00:23:44.02
It set volumes to me
that the labor unions
00:23:44.03\00:23:47.51
are going find a way to comeback
00:23:47.52\00:23:49.17
and their avenue is
through the Catholic Church.
00:23:49.18\00:23:52.02
Well again,
quoting from the document
00:23:52.03\00:23:54.38
I've mentioned
several times in this--
00:23:54.39\00:23:56.37
well, not yet here,
but in other programs
00:23:56.38\00:23:58.39
it was caritas in veritate,
Pope Benedict is quite plain.
00:23:58.40\00:24:03.11
That they are taking up
00:24:03.12\00:24:04.11
the schedule
for the union cause,
00:24:04.12\00:24:06.78
under the rubric of
justice for the worker.
00:24:06.79\00:24:12.60
The problem I think with
this law is the cohesion,
00:24:12.61\00:24:15.82
isn't it. Yes.
00:24:15.83\00:24:17.17
And that root is why
Seventh-day Adventists
00:24:17.18\00:24:20.70
have historically
been more than cautious
00:24:20.71\00:24:24.50
believe that unions
are inherently wrong
00:24:24.51\00:24:27.16
and will at some
clear point in the future
00:24:27.17\00:24:31.46
be a mechanism to
restrict religious activity.
00:24:31.47\00:24:35.39
And I'm often trying on
this program to use history
00:24:35.40\00:24:38.40
to show that we can't
reflexly be against unionism,
00:24:38.41\00:24:42.60
because unionism
is sort of a carry on
00:24:42.61\00:24:45.10
from the battle
between capital and labor
00:24:45.11\00:24:47.05
in this country
in the United States,
00:24:47.06\00:24:49.06
that at one point had people
working for almost nothing
00:24:49.07\00:24:51.71
it had been subject
to the employer in wage
00:24:51.72\00:24:55.67
and living conditions and so on.
00:24:55.68\00:24:57.33
The employees hired
the Pinkertons after them.
00:24:57.34\00:24:59.78
Yeah. It was not good.
00:24:59.79\00:25:01.16
So unionism
created fair conditions
00:25:01.17\00:25:05.56
really in essence created
00:25:05.57\00:25:07.34
or in a--was part
of the enabling dynamic
00:25:07.35\00:25:10.11
for a middle class
America. Sure, sure.
00:25:10.12\00:25:11.93
But that said, carried to
its limit it's not good. Right.
00:25:11.94\00:25:15.77
Because it works
against the individual choice--
00:25:15.78\00:25:18.75
the choice of the individual
00:25:18.76\00:25:20.37
and can lead to a
monopoly of the unions
00:25:20.38\00:25:23.50
just as surely as there
was a monopoly of the workers.
00:25:23.51\00:25:26.19
Well, you probably
heard of the state level,
00:25:26.20\00:25:29.27
the controversies
over labor union benefits
00:25:29.28\00:25:31.43
and scaling the back by Governor
00:25:31.44\00:25:34.67
Scott Walker in
Wisconsin and by John Kashutch,
00:25:34.68\00:25:38.11
the Governor in Ohio.
00:25:38.12\00:25:39.60
And how both of those,
00:25:39.61\00:25:41.12
well, in Wisconsin
the Republicans won.
00:25:41.13\00:25:44.27
In Ohio, during
the November election
00:25:44.28\00:25:47.72
on the state wide level,
00:25:47.73\00:25:50.39
that was turned back in
Ohio just a couple of weeks ago.
00:25:50.40\00:25:55.02
So this is crucial.
00:25:55.03\00:25:56.68
I think you're on to something,
00:25:56.69\00:25:58.29
because clearly more than
00:25:58.30\00:25:59.55
anytime in the several decades,
00:25:59.56\00:26:01.17
unionism is a matter
of the public discussion
00:26:01.18\00:26:03.38
in the United States
and there's a lot at stake.
00:26:03.39\00:26:06.43
Well, I think that
we have to be careful
00:26:06.44\00:26:09.00
if we assume for some
reason that we're Republican,
00:26:09.01\00:26:12.47
that we're Republican
because we're anti labor union.
00:26:12.48\00:26:15.31
You got another thing coming.
00:26:15.32\00:26:16.84
When it comes to both
Democrats and Republicans,
00:26:16.85\00:26:20.07
I really believe that
this is an issue an avenue,
00:26:20.08\00:26:23.66
labor unionism as
an issue is a big issue
00:26:23.67\00:26:27.51
that I find
Republicans and Democrats
00:26:27.52\00:26:30.54
finding unity over in the future
00:26:30.55\00:26:32.64
and I think union
will find a comeback.
00:26:32.65\00:26:35.57
I also believe that
the Republican primary,
00:26:35.58\00:26:37.95
the elections right now,
00:26:37.96\00:26:39.36
be careful because
unions are growing powerful
00:26:39.37\00:26:42.49
and there's unconstitutional
movements taking place.
00:26:42.50\00:26:44.85
Jesus had some very hard things
00:26:45.71\00:26:47.96
to say about the
pharisees who loved to pray
00:26:47.97\00:26:50.34
and be seen of
people in the public places.
00:26:50.35\00:26:53.33
During presidential
elections in the United States,
00:26:53.34\00:26:56.12
I sometimes
wonder if the candidates
00:26:56.13\00:26:58.05
might not obey and pay attention
00:26:58.06\00:27:00.49
to what Jesus said,
00:27:00.50\00:27:01.95
particularly with
the First Amendment,
00:27:01.96\00:27:04.27
prohibition on
church and state uniting
00:27:04.28\00:27:07.95
and religion being
exercised in a political manner.
00:27:07.96\00:27:11.96
I saw a cartoon some years ago
00:27:11.97\00:27:13.56
with opus the
penguin running for office
00:27:13.57\00:27:16.90
and he got up there and he says,
00:27:16.91\00:27:18.19
I believe in religion
more than my nearest opponent,
00:27:18.20\00:27:21.75
20% more than my
nearest opponent.
00:27:21.76\00:27:24.16
And then someone
from the audience said,
00:27:24.17\00:27:25.63
do you believe in walrus angels,
00:27:25.64\00:27:28.08
and he said, certainly,
00:27:28.09\00:27:30.01
and the next thing
he's kicked off the stage.
00:27:30.02\00:27:32.40
And then he says, you know,
00:27:32.41\00:27:34.60
conspicuous religiosity
is such a dangerous thing.
00:27:34.61\00:27:39.38
We need to be careful as voters
00:27:39.39\00:27:42.14
and as those
seeking public office
00:27:42.15\00:27:43.85
that we have deep held,
deeply held faith views.
00:27:43.86\00:27:47.98
But we need to
be just as certain
00:27:47.99\00:27:50.06
that we don't mix
those with the public order
00:27:50.07\00:27:53.32
and the way that
government projects
00:27:53.33\00:27:55.83
itself on those who
think differently than we do.
00:27:55.84\00:27:58.82
This is truly religious freedom.
00:27:58.83\00:28:02.85
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:02.86\00:28:05.64