Welcome to the
"Liberty Insider."
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And welcome you to the
program that brings you
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up to date news,
views and discussion
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on religious liberty
issues around the world.
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My guest on the
program is Greg Hamilton,
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President ofthe Northwest
Religious Liberty Association,
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up near Ciato, Washington there,
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in the Northwest
of the United States.
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You and I have discussed many
things before on this program.
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And I hope that our viewers
can come along for the ride,
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because a lot of
this is very complex.
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Yes.
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But those that are familiar
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with American history
and the American mindset
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know that there's such a thing
as American exceptionalism.
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Yes.
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It's alive and well, isn't it?
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It's not just
something for the history book.
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Well, it's the idea
that America is favored
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by God to do good
things, to advance democracy,
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to advance liberal
notions of democracy,
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religious freedom,
human rights around the world.
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Which we talked
about in our last program.
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Now, I remember George
Bush, he made a statement
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that I laughed at, but
it really was in some ways
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the best expression of
modern version of this.
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He said, God has blessed
the United States and he says,
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and he couldn't have
blessed more deserving people.
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Yeah. George Bush said that.
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Yeah, well, you
know, and that's insulting
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to the rest of the
world community, that's true.
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But in the sense,
the world community
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also recognizes that we have
the leadership and the values
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to go with that, that
they want for themselves, okay?
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So they don't want
us to be selfish per se.
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So that's why, I always say,
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we as Seventh-day
Adventist Christians
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ought to be interested in
evangelism overseas because
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we're sharing what we
have with religious freedom,
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democracy, the
freedom to evangelize.
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They want that too, they
want that same kind of freedom,
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at least, we think they do.
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But I think when
it comes to America.
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Freewill. Yes,
there is this idea
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however in the world
that's called moral equivalents,
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and that is, if the
United States can go
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and take out terrorists,
then we can label America
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as terrorists like the
Ayatollah Khamenei in Iran
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does, and calls us terrorists.
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So therefore we can
attack America at will,
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we can do 0this and that.
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And so therefore why shouldn't
we develop nuclear weapons,
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why shouldn't we be
morally equivalent to Israel
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or the United States
or the rest of Europe
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to develop our own
nuclear missile system.
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And so the idea of
moral equivalence is a clash,
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is in conflict with
American exceptionalism.
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And it's a concept
that President Barack Obama,
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which is maybe a new concept
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to some here in the
listening audience today,
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and that is he
believes very strongly
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in American
exceptionalism. Despite the fact
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that he's been
called un-American.
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Even Newt Gingrich the other day
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said that he doesn't even know
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he is the
President of his own country.
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And Mitt Romney, who
says, he is Apologizer-In-Chief.
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Now I'm not
here to defend Obama,
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because clearly he has
not only made some missteps
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but he comes across
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as if he is
America's Apologizer-In-Chief,
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so don't miss
understand me there.
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But where I'm going
with this is simply this.
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Well sometimes it's
good to apologize and--
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Yes. I, it wasn't that long ago
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that Japan made some
very deep and public apologies
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for what they did to
Southeast Asia in World War II.
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You don't think
that was appropriate?
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But Japan was the not the leader
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of the then known
world, there is this,
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there is this axiom of
power that if you're powerful,
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you never apologize.
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In fact, that's one
of the 48 laws of power,
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written by
Nathan, not Nathan Greene,
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I forget his
name, but anyway he is--
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It's probably written in-- Yeah.
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Machiavelli's The Prince.
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Yeah, definitely
coming from that book,
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yes, from along ago, yes.
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But that's not necessarily
an abrogation of leadership,
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that could just be an
acceptance of reality.
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But I know where you're going
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with this and many
U.S Presidents said that,
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that they would never apologize
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for what America's done.
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While the rest of the world sees
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that a little differently.
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But the American exceptionalism,
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I think comes
with the turf and yes,
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Obama or even if
he's Obama Hussein,
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Barack Hussein Obama.
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You know, they
mock that in the right.
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It's clearly, as
the U.S. President
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he advances U.S.
interest and he is not coming
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from another
point of the compass.
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That's why every president
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because it
advances America's interest.
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Every president
from George Washington
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on has developed its own formula
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for what's call
"Just war theory,"
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which is interesting and--
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Catholic doctrine or let's be--
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let's prejudicial about
it, a medieval doctrine.
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Which
Protestants. For another year.
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Which
Protestants readily adopted
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and it comes from in
a Catholic tradition,
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St Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.
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And in book by Yale
Professor, Stephen L. Carter,
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he's written a book
called "The Violence of Peace,
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America's Wars in
the Age of Obama."
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And it's very
interesting because it details
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Obama's childhood, growing
up mostly in Catholic schools,
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most people don't know that,
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they assume that he is a
Muslim which is not true,
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okay. They assume--
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I think by the way as
far as the U.S Constitution,
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if it were true, it
still not a dis-qualifier.
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Yes, he's
grandmother was Catholic, okay.
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He is wife came out
of a Catholic tradition,
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then became an atheist.
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And so he went to school,
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Muslim schooling was in
Catholic schools in Ohio.
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And most people don't
realize that as Stephen Carter
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brings out that
Obama "Just war theory"
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is very much
predicated on catholic views
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of "Just war
theory" which is this.
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And it's the idea that if
there is a humanitarian crisis
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anywhere in the world.
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Let's say, Obama had
been Bill Clinton in the 90s,
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he would have gonna into Rwanda,
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for example, into Africa
and consider that a just war.
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What Obama has done essentially
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in the name of "Just war theory"
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has gone way beyond
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even the threshold of
George W. Bush after 9/11.
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And that's this
idea that anywhere
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there is humanitarian
crisis were dictator
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or a system in a country
is persecuting its own people
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the United States
has an obligation,
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even as duty, a right
to go in and intervene
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and take out those dictators,
those leaders like in Libya.
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I think what you're describing
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it's obvious to
all us that observe
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the American system
and these two Presidents,
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George Bush was more
doctrine and special interest.
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Yes. Oil and so on.
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Right. And Obama applies
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a sort of a
moral, a more abstract,
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moral judgment on world affairs.
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But he said, and I've
read the speech in great detail
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in Chicago before the
outbreak of the Iraq war.
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He said, he said,
I'm not against war,
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I'm against stupid wars.
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Well, that-- And so
he made a very clear
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that he is not opposed to war.
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But he also-- So,
you misread him on Iraq.
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He just opposed it 'cause
it was for the wrong purpose
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and militarily seen
silly at the time to him.
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But Obama's really
not that much different
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than Bush in the
sense. Not in the,
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at the end results. And
that's what Stephen Carter
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argues. This Yale Law Professor
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whose specialty
is in foreign policy
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and human rights
and "Just war theory".
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Obama says, "there
are those in the world
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who are not
amenable to reason," okay.
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So, if there were those
who are not amenable to reason,
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especially
dictators who are persecuting
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and killing their own people.
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Then he argues that we
have an obligation to go in.
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Now that is pretty
scary when you think about it.
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What happened in Libya,
sure it was a weak target.
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But we went in
there, we led from behind
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with Europe sort
of supposedly taking
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the lead and in
reality, the technology
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and even the drones is
what won the day in Libya
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and arming the rebels in Libya.
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But Hillary Clinton follows
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on the heels of
Obama's thinking,
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because in the Clinton
administration she was,
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of course, the first lady
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for those eight
years for those two terms.
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And she saw what
happened in Rwanda
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and even Bill
Clinton himself says,
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"The biggest mistake I
ever made in my presidency
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was not intervening in Rwanda."
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Well, it was the moral lapse
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I think by the
most of the free world,
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whether or not it
should have been a war.
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But they could have,
they were many interventions
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in Rwanda that would
have fallen short of war,
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they could have
sent armed forces
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into extract or to protect
people, it wouldn't have.
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I don't think Rwanda
even with a full blown
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intervention
would have been war.
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We're doing that in Nigeria,
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we're doing
that in Sierra Leone,
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and we're doing that in
all different places in Africa.
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The Rwanda would
have been a police
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keeping proposition
rather than a war, an invasion.
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Hillary Clinton in a article
in the Foreign Policy magazine
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called "What Ails America,"
which is an interesting title.
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But she has an article in here
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called
"America's Pacific Century,"
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about the Pacific Rim
and dealing mainly with China
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and Indochina and
India and Micronesia,
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Indonesia and all those areas,
the Philippians and so on.
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And she says, "The
future of geopolitics
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will be decided in Asia,
not in Afghanistan or Iraq,
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and the United
States should be right
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at the center of the action."
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What she argues is as
we have to place ourselves
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not only in this
strategic position
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to make China abide
by international norm,
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sort to speak in this democratic
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liberal world order
that Obama and Hillary
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have sort to develop along
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with many
presidents before them.
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But she also
extrapolates and explains
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why humanitarian
intervention is so necessary.
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She argues that essentially
humanitarian intervention
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is necessary because it
puts a check on dictators
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and any nation that
refuses, and she says,
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it's even a more
powerful check than even
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what the U.S. Commission on
International Religious Freedom
00:10:18.27\00:10:20.86
or even its own,
her own state department
00:10:20.87\00:10:23.35
could do in calling for
human rights reforms and so on.
00:10:23.36\00:10:28.82
But what's the
difference between that mindset
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and what the Soviet
Union had, which for itself
00:10:31.23\00:10:34.24
is a custodian of socialist
aspirations of the common man?
00:10:34.25\00:10:40.14
What's the difference
between where they thought
00:10:40.15\00:10:42.07
that they should intervene
in any number of freedoms
00:10:42.08\00:10:45.36
struggles, where
people are rising up
00:10:45.37\00:10:46.94
against usually disputes.
00:10:46.95\00:10:48.59
And the explanation
is simple, it comes back
00:10:48.60\00:10:50.36
to American
exceptionalism, the idea.
00:10:50.37\00:10:52.55
Right, it comes back to an
assumption of exceptionalism.
00:10:52.56\00:10:55.88
Yes, And from a point
of religious freedom and--
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The idea that
they denounce to God
00:10:59.63\00:11:02.45
but we have accepted God
00:11:02.46\00:11:03.89
and therefore God
is leading our nation.
00:11:03.90\00:11:05.61
Well, you and I might feel
that the United States worships
00:11:05.62\00:11:07.96
the one true God but
every system feels that.
00:11:07.97\00:11:11.66
I'm saying that's the paradigm.
00:11:11.67\00:11:12.97
Yeah, communism
felt that it worshiped
00:11:12.98\00:11:14.74
the one true God
of human progress.
00:11:14.75\00:11:18.29
Yeah, In Saudi Arabia,
they feel, they worship Allah,
00:11:18.30\00:11:21.27
the one true God and
Mohammad is his prophet
00:11:21.28\00:11:23.68
and so got right on their side--
00:11:23.69\00:11:25.33
But I'm saying that's the model,
00:11:25.34\00:11:26.41
that's the paradigm,
Yeah, that is the model.
00:11:26.42\00:11:27.52
But I think we're
entering into enchanted ground,
00:11:27.53\00:11:30.03
to agree with the
American exceptionalism,
00:11:30.04\00:11:32.95
it's a historical
fact but it's theological,
00:11:32.96\00:11:35.79
it's theologically suspect.
00:11:35.80\00:11:37.93
Because even if
God did once favor
00:11:37.94\00:11:40.16
as He did once favor Israel.
00:11:40.17\00:11:43.01
At a time of national apostasy
or deviance from those norms,
00:11:43.02\00:11:46.75
you can think that you're
God's agent, you could be doing
00:11:46.76\00:11:48.91
the very evil thing as
we know at the very end
00:11:48.92\00:11:51.08
of prophecy compelling
people to a false worship.
00:11:51.09\00:11:54.31
Yes, Well, and yes, and that's
taking this to the end game
00:11:54.32\00:11:58.10
scenario which is what
we're talking about it--
00:11:58.11\00:12:00.82
So we should be
suspicious of this
00:12:00.83\00:12:02.14
and I know you agreed with this.
00:12:02.15\00:12:03.89
But when Hillary Clinton
advocated that we enter Libya,
00:12:03.90\00:12:07.08
Obama at first opposed
it, and one of the things
00:12:07.09\00:12:10.19
that Hillary said is
that we can lead from behind.
00:12:10.20\00:12:13.25
Let Europe take the
front, let America look good
00:12:13.26\00:12:16.00
in the eyes of the
world, let's restore our image
00:12:16.01\00:12:19.95
in the world as being
benevolent and not somebody
00:12:19.96\00:12:23.78
that wants to
just come in with boots
00:12:23.79\00:12:26.52
on the ground and
take over countries.
00:12:26.53\00:12:28.44
Because that's essentially
the message that Bush
00:12:28.45\00:12:31.56
sort of sent to
Iraq and Afghanistan
00:12:31.57\00:12:33.50
when he first entered.
00:12:33.51\00:12:34.76
And essentially why
Obama wants to extract
00:12:34.77\00:12:37.25
our country out of
Afghanistan and Iraq.
00:12:37.26\00:12:42.33
You know, I have a
strong -- you and I share
00:12:42.34\00:12:46.08
strong views on
religious liberty.
00:12:46.09\00:12:47.67
Right, But we probably
have greater divergence
00:12:47.68\00:12:50.42
on describing political actions.
00:12:50.43\00:12:52.42
It seems to me that
the West took on Libya
00:12:52.43\00:12:55.20
for very different reasons
00:12:55.21\00:12:56.80
than why it took
on other countries.
00:12:56.81\00:12:59.24
We'll be back after the break
to continue this discussion
00:12:59.25\00:13:02.02
because this is the
dynamics stuff that's concerned
00:13:02.03\00:13:04.40
with today's new headlines.
00:13:04.41\00:13:05.80
We'll be right back.
00:13:05.81\00:13:07.42
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00:13:15.91\00:13:19.54
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00:13:19.55\00:13:22.59
Liberty, the
Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:22.60\00:13:24.77
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00:13:24.78\00:13:28.13
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00:13:28.14\00:13:31.57
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00:13:31.58\00:13:34.67
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00:15:00.35\00:15:03.49
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:15:13.87\00:15:15.43
Before the break with
our guest Greg Hamilton,
00:15:15.44\00:15:18.46
we were talking
about a lot of things
00:15:18.47\00:15:20.17
and we settled on Libya.
00:15:20.18\00:15:21.75
Recent events in
Libya, and it reminds me
00:15:21.76\00:15:23.77
that when we talked
about American exceptionalism,
00:15:23.78\00:15:27.69
the new Republic which
was distinctly isolationist
00:15:27.70\00:15:30.97
ironically actually had a
military adventure to send
00:15:30.98\00:15:34.96
a naval expeditionary force
against the Barbary pirates,
00:15:34.97\00:15:39.04
that ended inclusively.
00:15:39.05\00:15:40.65
But then it was ended
with the treaty of Tripoli,
00:15:40.66\00:15:43.14
which is the capital
of present day Libya.
00:15:43.15\00:15:46.24
And in spite of that
treaty, as you well know,
00:15:46.25\00:15:48.57
we've featured at Liberty
and we -- a number of us talk
00:15:48.58\00:15:51.08
about it regularly.
00:15:51.09\00:15:52.31
It said, there
that the United States
00:15:52.32\00:15:53.89
is in no wise founded upon
Christianity and it's equally
00:15:53.90\00:15:57.59
for the Muslim
and the Christians
00:15:57.60\00:15:59.69
and so on, and Jews, Right.
00:15:59.70\00:16:01.55
But, you know, this
thing with modern day Libya
00:16:01.56\00:16:04.49
is very problematic to
me and I -- Yes, you know,
00:16:04.50\00:16:08.62
Gaddafi is the bad boy
of international politics
00:16:08.63\00:16:12.59
and dictator was hated
by the other dictators.
00:16:12.60\00:16:15.56
Who is now dead.
00:16:15.57\00:16:16.90
And said that he would
die in his own country,
00:16:16.91\00:16:20.16
which he did.
00:16:20.17\00:16:21.28
At the hands of his own people.
00:16:21.29\00:16:24.73
Yes, you know, he was leaving
with a convey of ten vehicles
00:16:24.74\00:16:32.10
and predators
picked them all off,
00:16:32.11\00:16:34.50
killed 95 of his 100 bodyguards
00:16:34.51\00:16:37.83
and then he was
picked up by a mob.
00:16:37.84\00:16:41.30
It was rather
predictable the way it went.
00:16:41.31\00:16:43.53
But I think we can easily
see that the NATO and U.S.
00:16:43.54\00:16:48.32
were involved into deal
with that because with Libya,
00:16:48.33\00:16:51.11
because of the oil.
00:16:51.12\00:16:52.51
And they're not quite so
bold in dealing with Syria
00:16:52.52\00:16:54.45
because there is no
special interest there,
00:16:54.46\00:16:57.63
other than it's
proximity to Iraq.
00:16:57.64\00:17:00.06
People, very few
people seem to look at the map
00:17:00.07\00:17:02.46
and we see that were
encircling Iran for example
00:17:03.13\00:17:08.94
and that we're
picking off what the Neocons
00:17:08.95\00:17:11.74
used to have as their
list of countries to take over.
00:17:11.75\00:17:14.15
So there is a global
agenda clearly being carried on
00:17:14.16\00:17:16.83
it's for the old way we
used hegemony for control,
00:17:16.84\00:17:21.10
and I think tying up
some of the assets which most,
00:17:21.11\00:17:25.03
which can be summarized in oil.
00:17:25.04\00:17:27.34
I don't think it
will be long before
00:17:27.35\00:17:30.40
we intervene even in
Syria -- Oh, no, probably.
00:17:30.41\00:17:32.22
For humanitarian
reasons, the same way
00:17:32.23\00:17:34.16
we went into Libya.
00:17:34.17\00:17:35.56
And the reason why I say that--
00:17:35.57\00:17:36.76
That's on the
list, it was on the list
00:17:36.77\00:17:38.07
of countries
that George Bush had.
00:17:38.08\00:17:39.49
The reason I say that
because there is one element
00:17:39.50\00:17:42.43
here that we haven't look at
00:17:42.44\00:17:44.16
and that is the transformation
of the Arab League.
00:17:44.17\00:17:47.01
The transformation of
the Arab League so much
00:17:47.02\00:17:48.96
so that the Arab League led
basically by Saudi Arabia says,
00:17:48.97\00:17:53.36
"We can do business with
Israel, but we will not do
00:17:53.37\00:17:55.56
business with Hamas,
we will not do business
00:17:55.57\00:17:57.59
with Hezbollah, we will
not do business with Syria."
00:17:57.60\00:18:00.80
And the reason being is
because they're all tied
00:18:00.81\00:18:03.28
to Iran and the Muslim--
00:18:03.29\00:18:06.08
the Shiite
Muslims whom they hate.
00:18:06.09\00:18:08.31
You see the rest of the world.
00:18:08.32\00:18:09.68
That Saudi Arabia are Sunni.
00:18:09.69\00:18:10.86
The rest of the Muslim
world including Indonesia
00:18:10.87\00:18:13.05
are all Sunni, the
Muslims, so it represents 80%
00:18:13.06\00:18:17.36
of all the Muslim world
are Sunnis and it goes back
00:18:17.37\00:18:21.01
to the whole dispute
00:18:21.02\00:18:22.01
as to who's the
rightful heir of Mohammad.
00:18:22.02\00:18:24.36
So and which is -- It's more
than a doctrinal difference,
00:18:24.37\00:18:27.21
it goes to the
legitimacy of the Saudi regime,
00:18:27.22\00:18:31.13
because they
claimed to be custodians
00:18:31.14\00:18:33.20
of the holy place so they're
tracing their lineage back.
00:18:33.21\00:18:36.64
But this is the key
because the Arab League
00:18:36.65\00:18:38.59
is the first one to
really given that huge signal,
00:18:38.60\00:18:42.11
urging the United
States and the United Nations
00:18:42.12\00:18:44.63
through the
U.N. Security Council
00:18:44.64\00:18:46.00
and its allied powers
with NATO, the European powers,
00:18:46.01\00:18:51.32
to come in and intervene
in this humanitarian crisis.
00:18:51.33\00:18:54.31
The people in Libya are being
persecuted by the dictator,
00:18:54.32\00:18:56.56
they're gonna be annihilated,
00:18:56.57\00:18:57.67
especially the
one town, Misrata.
00:18:57.68\00:18:59.86
And so Hillary Clinton urged
00:18:59.87\00:19:03.23
Barack Obama to intervene, okay.
00:19:03.24\00:19:05.95
And he did, but
he was very reluctant
00:19:05.96\00:19:07.86
and didn't want
to do it at first.
00:19:07.87\00:19:09.14
And so Hillary
Clinton, when Gaddafi was killed
00:19:09.15\00:19:12.91
and everything was restored
so to speak with the rebels
00:19:12.92\00:19:16.25
ruling the country and trying
00:19:16.26\00:19:17.63
to get their
constitutional act together.
00:19:17.64\00:19:19.45
She waltzed in and was
received like a hero in Libya.
00:19:19.46\00:19:24.04
Even, I mean, she
had protection by CIA
00:19:24.05\00:19:26.56
and other people, personnel
and secret service detail.
00:19:26.57\00:19:29.68
But when she was
surrounded by rebels,
00:19:29.69\00:19:32.06
they could have
killed her in the spot,
00:19:32.07\00:19:33.14
but she was welcomed back
like that conquering hero.
00:19:33.15\00:19:35.71
Yes, I noticed that moment.
00:19:35.72\00:19:37.26
Yeah, and it was very
interesting because usually
00:19:37.27\00:19:39.01
that's only
reserved for presidents,
00:19:39.02\00:19:40.61
but it was interesting
that the Secretary of State
00:19:40.62\00:19:42.64
Hillary Clinton took
on that role because--
00:19:42.65\00:19:45.34
Was an analogist with little
or no right there in Bosnia,
00:19:45.35\00:19:48.87
wasn't it, yes,
appeared with the troops.
00:19:48.88\00:19:51.02
Correct, And so it's like
Hillary Clinton is getting
00:19:51.03\00:19:55.68
most of the credit for
this, which I find interesting.
00:19:55.69\00:19:58.28
Now, whether she
runs for president or not,
00:19:58.29\00:20:00.16
she says, she's not.
00:20:00.17\00:20:01.46
She would have
to make a bold bid
00:20:01.47\00:20:02.92
against Barack Obama.
00:20:02.93\00:20:04.24
Some of my friends
back on the West coast,
00:20:04.25\00:20:07.62
including my
friend Richard, who --
00:20:07.63\00:20:09.64
I won't name his last name.
00:20:09.65\00:20:11.31
I really believe -- has
this theory, he really believes
00:20:11.32\00:20:13.32
that Hillary Clinton
is gonna throw in her hat
00:20:13.33\00:20:15.61
after January and
actually run for presidency.
00:20:15.62\00:20:18.64
And I've just to be a
devil's advocate I said, no,
00:20:18.65\00:20:22.31
I don't think she is.
00:20:22.32\00:20:23.71
But I find it
interesting because--
00:20:23.72\00:20:25.26
It would be bad form,
00:20:25.27\00:20:26.36
usually the sitting
president gets the nomination.
00:20:26.37\00:20:29.84
Here's the
elements I'm talking about,
00:20:29.85\00:20:31.46
Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai
in his speech to the loya jirga
00:20:31.47\00:20:35.78
advocated a stronger
alliance with the United States
00:20:35.79\00:20:39.56
and even western
powers, which is an irony,
00:20:39.57\00:20:43.30
because over the
last couple years
00:20:43.31\00:20:44.76
he's been
denouncing the United States.
00:20:44.77\00:20:46.67
Well, yes and no, remember,
Karzai is in some ways,
00:20:46.68\00:20:51.48
to use a rough
word, a western plant,
00:20:51.49\00:20:53.45
he was a lobbyist for
one of the old companies.
00:20:53.46\00:20:55.53
So he represents
the global oil interest.
00:20:55.54\00:20:59.54
But you have, you have all
of these Middle East countries
00:20:59.55\00:21:01.83
lining up and
starting to behave.
00:21:01.84\00:21:03.64
You have Jordan calling
for Syria's President Assad
00:21:03.65\00:21:06.94
to step down and Turkey
00:21:06.95\00:21:08.05
calling for Assad to step down.
00:21:08.06\00:21:10.56
Saudi Arabia calling
for ecumenical revival.
00:21:10.57\00:21:15.21
We're in a
revolutionary movement.
00:21:15.22\00:21:17.13
Yes, The world is
influx greater than any time
00:21:17.14\00:21:20.52
in our life times, I
can assure you on that.
00:21:20.53\00:21:23.05
If you look at
history, you've got to go back
00:21:23.06\00:21:25.26
hundreds of years to
see anything like it.
00:21:25.27\00:21:28.25
Hillary Clinton has
been pressuring Egypt
00:21:28.26\00:21:31.17
to get its
constitutional system in order,
00:21:31.18\00:21:34.97
saying, you need to
decide with the people,
00:21:34.98\00:21:36.69
your military order
is, is running amok,
00:21:36.70\00:21:40.40
you need to let the people
have their way and their say.
00:21:40.41\00:21:43.10
She saying the
same thing to Pakistan
00:21:43.11\00:21:45.06
with the Haqqani network.
00:21:45.07\00:21:46.78
She's pressuring Iran
with their nuclear ambitions.
00:21:46.79\00:21:51.55
But the big key
here is the Arab League
00:21:51.56\00:21:54.75
jumping into
this whole scenario.
00:21:54.76\00:21:56.93
They have become more
Pro-West than I've ever seen
00:21:56.94\00:21:59.54
them before and I
think, I think that key.
00:21:59.55\00:22:02.30
I don't think they're Pro-West
but they're playing along.
00:22:02.31\00:22:05.23
But they used to be Pro-Soviet
Union during the Cold War,
00:22:05.24\00:22:09.29
those ties are gone
and forever eviscerated,
00:22:09.30\00:22:12.85
they had the hardest
time releasing themselves
00:22:12.86\00:22:16.46
from the control
of the Soviet Union.
00:22:16.47\00:22:18.68
The only place that Soviet Union
00:22:18.69\00:22:21.19
still has a place is with Iran
00:22:21.20\00:22:24.10
and the Shiite
influence with Hezbollah,
00:22:24.11\00:22:26.45
with Hamas in the Gaza strip
00:22:26.46\00:22:29.88
that keep
giving Israel problems.
00:22:29.89\00:22:32.29
And that's the only
place and it's still
00:22:32.30\00:22:34.53
a very much of a problem.
00:22:34.54\00:22:36.23
But those key areas I
think are instrumental
00:22:36.24\00:22:40.73
in helping us to see
that a global western alliance
00:22:40.74\00:22:44.54
is widening and
especially in the Middles East.
00:22:44.55\00:22:47.35
It's globalism, Yes,
Where I saw the change
00:22:47.36\00:22:50.32
on the Arab League
was during the Bush era,
00:22:50.33\00:22:54.57
Cheney flew to Riyadh,
met with King Abdullah.
00:22:54.58\00:23:00.36
And he read the right act
on Iranian nuclear aspirations
00:23:00.37\00:23:04.28
and immediately he left, they
ordered up a nuclear program
00:23:04.29\00:23:07.71
and shifted their behavior.
00:23:07.72\00:23:09.62
I think that's the movement.
00:23:09.63\00:23:11.17
They realized
there is a mortal threat
00:23:11.18\00:23:12.52
within their region and
that they need to play along
00:23:12.53\00:23:16.19
with the U.S. interest.
00:23:16.20\00:23:17.90
But I don't think
that they're Pro-West.
00:23:17.91\00:23:19.90
The other wildcard
and I think you might
00:23:19.91\00:23:22.06
have been mentioned in outside
00:23:22.07\00:23:23.78
discussion before this program.
00:23:23.79\00:23:26.70
The Pope of Rome has made some
00:23:26.71\00:23:29.95
incredible statements of late.
00:23:29.96\00:23:31.84
His speech at Regensburg,
which went horribly awry,
00:23:31.85\00:23:34.49
I think was designed to create
00:23:34.50\00:23:36.17
some sort of
common ground with Islam
00:23:36.18\00:23:38.55
as well as
condemn the reformation.
00:23:38.56\00:23:41.95
But recently he
said that's his life goal
00:23:41.96\00:23:44.95
to bring some
sort of rapprochement
00:23:44.96\00:23:47.94
between Islam and Christianity.
00:23:47.95\00:23:49.80
Yes, absolutely, So
there is something afoot.
00:23:49.81\00:23:53.37
We never quite
know the Vatican's
00:23:53.38\00:23:56.01
methods because
they're largely secret
00:23:56.02\00:23:58.21
but they're very
active, very active.
00:23:58.22\00:24:00.30
And this global
alliance is taking shape
00:24:00.31\00:24:03.88
in many other ways too.
00:24:03.89\00:24:05.08
You look at Pakistan
in the Atlantic Monthly.
00:24:05.09\00:24:08.93
There is an article about
what to do about Pakistan.
00:24:08.94\00:24:12.93
The worst possible ally.
00:24:12.94\00:24:14.11
Yeah, the worst possible
ally, and it's interesting
00:24:14.12\00:24:17.63
because it seems like
00:24:17.64\00:24:18.95
whether it's Pakistan,
Afghanistan, Jordan, Turkey,
00:24:18.96\00:24:21.71
all of these countries through
U.S. influence in a love,
00:24:21.72\00:24:25.71
hate relationship, so to speak,
00:24:25.72\00:24:27.32
are coming around so to speak.
00:24:27.33\00:24:29.54
And when you talk
about American exceptionalism
00:24:29.55\00:24:31.77
and America
being in this hegemony,
00:24:31.78\00:24:34.62
I don't think that
it's influence is lessening,
00:24:34.63\00:24:36.70
what I think that's
happening is happening,
00:24:36.71\00:24:38.89
it's influence is actually
growing and it's decided
00:24:38.90\00:24:42.65
to take a so called
lesser role taking out
00:24:42.66\00:24:45.73
more of a diplomatic role
00:24:45.74\00:24:46.85
while others do
the heavier lifting.
00:24:46.86\00:24:48.63
Yeah, that's true of necessity
00:24:48.84\00:24:50.08
and I think also it's Obama's
-- President Obama's style.
00:24:50.09\00:24:54.88
Peace making and at the same--
00:24:54.89\00:24:57.80
He's disarmed a
lot of the opposition
00:24:57.81\00:24:59.35
by his conciliatory manner even,
00:24:59.36\00:25:02.86
you know, was it Teddy Roosevelt
00:25:02.87\00:25:05.96
walks softly and
carry a big stick.
00:25:05.97\00:25:08.54
Yes, That's
absolutely Obama's style.
00:25:08.55\00:25:10.57
Well, and if you look
at the "Just war theory"
00:25:10.58\00:25:13.50
that Obama has in
Stephen Carter's book
00:25:13.51\00:25:16.03
"The Violence of
Peace America's Wars
00:25:16.04\00:25:17.60
in the Age of Obama."
00:25:17.61\00:25:18.84
You begin to understand
that his whole Catholic
00:25:18.85\00:25:21.38
background
regarding "Just war theory"
00:25:21.39\00:25:23.50
follows St.
Augustine's the closest.
00:25:23.51\00:25:25.85
If you remember the
Donatist issue in North Africa
00:25:25.86\00:25:28.89
during the time
of St. Augustine,
00:25:28.90\00:25:31.08
where they were absolutely
determined that Jesus Christ
00:25:31.09\00:25:36.79
human nature did not fit
into a Trinitarian scheme
00:25:36.80\00:25:40.53
that the Catholic Church
had come up within its councils.
00:25:40.54\00:25:44.42
And Augustine says,
they must be reformed
00:25:44.43\00:25:47.39
and if they will
not be reformed through
00:25:47.40\00:25:50.31
preaching and teaching,
then like a good shepherd,
00:25:50.32\00:25:53.27
we should also
require the state to come in
00:25:53.28\00:25:56.27
and spank them, so to speak,
00:25:56.28\00:25:58.18
force them at
the point of a sword.
00:25:58.19\00:26:00.62
We're headed back to
the future, isn't it? Yes.
00:26:00.63\00:26:02.55
We're heading in that direction.
00:26:02.56\00:26:03.78
And that's what we see, yeah.
00:26:03.79\00:26:05.46
We've had a very good
article, series of articles
00:26:05.47\00:26:08.00
in Liberty Magazine
recently on persecution,
00:26:08.01\00:26:10.29
the prosectorium
pulse, By David Trim.
00:26:10.30\00:26:12.07
Prosectorium pulse.
00:26:12.08\00:26:13.44
He's now a
Facebook friend of mine.
00:26:13.45\00:26:15.03
Good, So, you know, the history
00:26:15.04\00:26:18.64
doesn't absolutely repeat
itself but certain attitudes
00:26:18.65\00:26:21.11
of these major players,
who in the case of the Vatican
00:26:21.12\00:26:24.70
goes back a long, long
way, they have not changed.
00:26:24.71\00:26:27.73
And we've seen these things
00:26:27.74\00:26:28.76
worked out with
the speed of light.
00:26:28.77\00:26:30.51
Ellen White
speaking to Adventists
00:26:30.52\00:26:32.25
of the last
movements will be rapid ones.
00:26:32.26\00:26:34.53
I think, I think what we
see as a movement towards
00:26:34.54\00:26:37.00
establishing religious
freedom and human rights
00:26:37.01\00:26:39.78
almost in the name of force.
00:26:39.79\00:26:41.36
And I think that's
dangerous for the future
00:26:41.37\00:26:43.81
for the world and I
think it's prophetic.
00:26:43.82\00:26:47.92
About sixty miles South
of Baghdad are some ruins.
00:26:48.72\00:26:52.74
Many centuries ago those
ruins were the city of Babylon,
00:26:54.19\00:26:57.93
the biblical city of Babylon.
00:26:57.94\00:27:00.01
The historic city of Babylon
that was the greatest city
00:27:00.02\00:27:03.06
then known on upon the earth.
00:27:03.07\00:27:05.34
Today it's a ruin,
today it may even be a place
00:27:05.35\00:27:09.41
where no one can live
because of the depleted uranium
00:27:09.42\00:27:12.39
from the war
that the United States
00:27:12.40\00:27:15.67
felt forced to wage
against modern day Iraq.
00:27:15.68\00:27:20.69
When I think of
what's happened there and see
00:27:20.70\00:27:22.92
the continuing
actions of the United States,
00:27:22.93\00:27:25.25
not always through war,
but through diplomatic means,
00:27:25.26\00:27:28.66
I'm reminded that this lamb like
00:27:28.67\00:27:30.63
beast of Revelation 13
is to be reckoned with.
00:27:30.64\00:27:35.04
It may not have
edifice of Ancient Babylon,
00:27:35.05\00:27:38.11
but it is a modern
power exercising civil power.
00:27:38.12\00:27:42.63
And behind it lies a
religious sensibility.
00:27:42.64\00:27:46.44
At some point in the
future, like ancient Babylon,
00:27:46.45\00:27:50.64
the United States may well
fall victim to the temptation
00:27:50.65\00:27:54.85
to compel people to behave
00:27:54.86\00:27:58.60
and to worship in a certain way.
00:27:58.61\00:28:02.77
This is Lincoln
Steed for Liberty Insider.
00:28:02.78\00:28:06.94