Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Dwayne Leslie
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000154
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00:22 Welcome to the "Liberty Insider."
00:25 This is the program for those of you 00:27 that regularly watch it. 00:29 This is the program that brings you 00:30 religious liberty news, views, discussion, and opinion 00:34 on breaking issues all around the world 00:36 and particularly in North America. 00:38 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:41 And my guest on the program is Dwayne Leslie. 00:45 Dwayne Leslie is legislative liaison 00:47 for the Seventh-day Adventist Church 00:49 to the U.S. government in Washington. 00:51 Thank you for having me here. It's my pleasure. 00:55 As well as that responsibility that I just outlined, 00:59 you also function 01:00 within the International Religious Liberty Association. 01:04 Yes, I'm the Deputy Secretary-General 01:06 for the International Religious Liberty Association. 01:08 And one of the things that we're planning 01:10 is world congress for the religious freedom 01:13 in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic. 01:15 Very good. That's what I was easing your toward. 01:17 You know, the IRLA and I have some, 01:19 some association with it too. 01:21 And I've been privilege to be involved 01:22 in many of its international events, 01:24 but the international religious liberty association 01:27 was established, I think even 01:30 a little bit before Liberty Magazine, 01:32 well over a century ago 01:33 by the Seventh-day Adventist Church 01:34 as a way to involve people of good faith 01:38 who believe in religious freedom, 01:40 but internationally. 01:41 So it's not really an Adventist organization, 01:44 but we have the leading role under it, I guess. 01:47 Now this, this event in Punta Cana, 01:50 does it have a theme? 01:51 Is there a reason why this is being convenient, 01:53 apart from to enjoy the beaches there? 01:55 Well, although it is a very lovely resort. 01:58 Wonderful spot, I think, But every five years, 02:00 the IRLA comes together to have a conference 02:04 that really is targeting 02:05 the promotion of religious freedom 02:07 on an international basis. 02:08 So we'll have speakers 02:10 from all across the world, from various faiths, 02:12 but all united for a common purpose 02:15 to promote and protect religious freedom. 02:17 So our theme for 2012 02:20 is the secular challenge to religious freedom. 02:23 So we'll be bringing in speakers 02:25 from various government officials 02:27 from all over the world to address the secular challenges, 02:30 but then also to talk about other issues of concerned 02:33 for the international community. 02:35 Good. How many people are we expecting? 02:37 We're expecting 800 to 1,000 people. 02:39 Wow. That's quite a crew. So it's-- 02:41 And it'll be in four different languages. 02:44 English, Spanish, French, and Portuguese. 02:47 And so whatever language people speak, 02:49 we'll be able to have translation equipment for them. 02:51 Now it's worth mentioning to our viewers 02:53 who are all around the world. 02:54 You know, 3ABN is not just broadcast 02:57 within the United States. 02:59 But I know within United States, 03:01 many people seem largely unaware of, 03:04 of Latin America in general, 03:06 and unaware that within South America, 03:08 Brazil, Portuguese speaking. 03:10 You mentioned Portuguese. 03:11 It's a larger land mass than the United States. 03:14 Yes. It's a huge country. 03:16 But and I think people may not even realize 03:18 that the growth of the Seventh-day Adventist Church 03:20 in South America is fantastic. 03:22 Absolutely, and church growth generally, 03:26 and Adventist growth in particularly 03:28 in Latin America is explosive too. 03:30 There's something stirring down there. 03:31 So I'm sure of those attendees a huge percentage 03:35 will be coming from that part of the world. 03:36 And that's one of the reasons 03:37 why we actually wanted to locate this particular 03:40 world congress in that region, 03:43 we wanted to recognize their incredible growth 03:46 not only to the church, 03:47 but just the opportunity to again be a witness 03:50 and a beacon to, for religious liberty. 03:52 You know, I attended an IRLA sponsored event 03:57 down there a couple of years ago, 03:59 where we had a rally, for want of a better word, 04:04 in a football stadium, 04:06 and they were 15,000 people as I remember and it was, 04:09 it was invigorating, let me tell you. 04:11 So I know that in that area, 04:13 there's a huge enthusiasm for religious freedom, 04:16 from the people, the attendees, 04:18 but then during the rest of the week 04:21 while I was there in another hotel, 04:22 not in Punta Cana, but in the Dominican Republic. 04:26 We heard presentations from government leaders 04:29 from within the Dominican Republic 04:31 and elsewhere in the area. 04:32 And I was impressed that the comprehension 04:35 of the importance of religious freedom. 04:38 When I was a kid growing up in Australia, 04:40 it impressed me mightily that several times 04:43 we were called to division wide, 04:46 which was area wide 04:47 for Australia and New Zealand prayer for Christians, 04:50 not just Adventist Christians in Latin America 04:52 who have been persecuted. 04:54 And the general root of the persecution 04:57 back then was after centuries 04:59 of direct control by the State Church, 05:02 which was Roman Catholicism. 05:05 People were trying to find their own way spiritually, 05:08 and they were being prosecuted 05:09 by the state because they were not-- 05:11 Right. Roman Catholic. 05:13 We're so far passed that now that as I heard the, 05:15 the representatives from the Dominican Republic say, 05:20 and they were in the process when we were there, 05:21 of drawing up a new constitution 05:24 that while they have a special relationship, 05:27 for want of a better term with the Roman Catholic Church. 05:30 You know, they've cut free 05:31 of that old model and are granting 05:33 full and free religious liberties to everybody. 05:37 So it's a new day. Now, it is. 05:39 And what's interesting is that as we travel 05:41 and talk to people in that part of the world, 05:44 again to see the lengths that people are willing 05:47 to go to promote religious freedom. 05:49 I'll give you one example in the country of Columbia. 05:53 One of the senators there, Charles Schultz, 05:55 who will actually be coming to the world congress to speak, 05:58 he took the lead in actually 06:00 changing the Columbian constitution 06:03 to specifically enact 06:05 protections for religious freedom. 06:07 And he did so tirelessly 06:10 and was able to actually have now countrified 06:14 religious freedom written in, 06:15 and now they have a very vibrant 06:19 chapter of the International Religious Liberty Association 06:22 in Columbia to protect freedoms. 06:24 Now you're closer to the scheduling 06:27 of this event than I am, 06:28 so I'll ask you in front of the camera 06:30 and you may not-- 06:32 as there are presentations planned to discuss 06:35 the ongoing problem in Chiapas in Mexico, 06:38 that's quite a-- Yes, we're actually going-- 06:41 I'm actually in charge of putting together 06:43 some of the breakout sessions. 06:44 And we'll be talking about 06:46 some of the specific issues in Mexico generally 06:50 and then other parts of the world 06:52 because obviously that's something 06:53 that is of great concern to our church. 06:54 Yeah, I just mentioned that because it's close by, 06:56 I mean, that's in the neck of the woods. 06:58 Now I think earlier 07:00 you gave the topic of the congress. 07:03 "The Secular Challenge to Religious Freedom." 07:05 The Secular Challenge, now that's interesting. 07:10 We'll talk a little bit in the second half of the program 07:13 about another aspect of that presentation, 07:15 but for Punta Cana, 07:19 is secularism really a challenge to Latin America, 07:22 that's interesting. 07:24 Well, it may not be a challenge specifically in Latin America. 07:26 But I think, when we look at it 07:28 from a global perspective, particularly in Europe 07:30 I think we see it. Absolutely. 07:32 As a particular issue where we, 07:34 the IRLA had a meeting of experts 07:37 in Australia this past year and where we touched 07:41 on some of the secular issues there as well. 07:43 And Australia is another country 07:45 as I'm sure you know, where secularism is-- 07:47 Well, that's what I wanted to discuss in-- 07:49 Oh, in the second half, but we'll, we can come to that. 07:51 But what, when I hear that topic 07:54 I think immediately of Pope Benedict 07:59 who in his Regensburg address 08:01 which caused a lot of trouble with Muslims, 08:03 and I think it not correctly, 08:05 I mean, it shouldn't have been so, 08:06 because he wasn't talking about Islam really. 08:08 But he listed three severe challenges to the church 08:14 and he threw away one at the beginning, 08:15 the Protestant model of Sola Scripture, 08:19 you know, I'll discuss that another time, okay. 08:21 But the second two were variations of secularism. 08:23 He sees secularism 08:25 as a severe test for Christianity. 08:31 And so at the very least we should, 08:32 should have ready participation 08:34 for the Roman Catholic Church 08:36 in Latin America at this conference 08:37 because this is the, a clearly identified 08:41 area of threat according to Rome. 08:45 Now and-- Well, it's interesting 08:47 because the Catholic Church 08:49 has been very active in the field 08:51 of religious liberty as well too. 08:52 Yes, and-- You know, 08:53 I hope they're not swipes, 08:55 but I often mentioned the Catholic Church 08:57 because we have a-- 09:00 well, as Protestants we have historical issues, 09:02 but not-- We don't currently have issues 09:04 with the Catholic Church on religious freedom. 09:06 They are speaking very correctly 09:08 on the dynamic of religious freedom. 09:11 And Catholics as well as many other Protestant Christians 09:14 are being persecuted actively around the world. 09:16 They're not generally, 09:18 the persecutors in the modern world, so-- 09:21 Yeah, that's correct. 09:22 But back to the point 09:24 that the Catholic Church has raised, 09:25 that that we clearly share 09:27 and want to focus on in this conference, secularism. 09:31 An awful lot of, 09:32 of our discussion in Liberty Magazine 09:35 and on this program is about avert persecution of people 09:39 have faith in different countries of the world. 09:42 And I think that that's the major threat. 09:43 But secularism itself taken as a philosophical mindset 09:49 and how it expresses itself in societies 09:52 can be quite a threat to religious faith. 09:55 It can, but as we've talked about an other shows, 09:58 in some ways, secularism can sometimes 10:01 also be a friend to religious freedom 10:03 because what it does is, 10:05 it actually takes religion out of any church day combination. 10:10 Well, that's true. 10:11 And it shows with me that you and I agree very much. 10:14 So I'm reticent to make too much of secularism. 10:17 You can't dismiss it, because secularism contributes 10:21 to the modern cynicism about religion, 10:23 which even if it doesn't attack religion directly 10:26 can ultimately pull out 10:29 its support structure in a society. 10:31 Back to what I said in another program 10:33 about the Arab Spring. 10:35 Ultimately it's what society thinks about something 10:37 that determines where you go, 10:39 not what structure is imposed on you. 10:41 Right, because-- I agree. 10:43 So, but I found some of the recent 10:48 discussions on secularism interesting. 10:50 I don't agree, and I don't know what your view is. 10:53 I don't agree classifying secularism as a religion 10:56 because it appears to mimic religion in some structures 11:00 and how philosophically people sort of adhere 11:04 to it like a religious faith, 11:05 I think that's sort of a false-- 11:08 I don't agree that it's a religion. 11:10 But I think as you pointed out. 11:13 When you have too much secularism, 11:14 then there's an increasing cynicism about religion 11:18 and any sort of interjection into day-to-day society. 11:24 And so I think that the secular challenge 11:26 to religious freedom is when a society goes 11:28 completely secular, 11:30 then you may see the absence of religion. 11:33 Absolutely. I don't know if I have time before our break. 11:36 'Cause I want to take a break very shortly, 11:38 but when I was in Australia-- 11:41 And after the break, we will discuss this more fully. 11:43 We had an IRLA, 11:45 meeting of experts examining secularism 11:48 and its challenges. While I was there, 11:50 I got into an interesting discussion 11:52 with an Egyptian Coptic Christian 11:55 in a fish and chips shop. 11:57 So let's take our break now, 11:59 it might be a little bit early, but I'll take the break. 12:02 We'll be back to continue this discussion 12:04 of secularism and religious freedom. 12:14 One hundred years a long time to do anything, 12:18 much less publish a magazine, but this year "Liberty," 12:22 the Seventh-day Adventist voice of religious freedom 12:25 celebrates 100 years of doing 12:27 what it does best, collecting, analyzing, 12:30 and reporting the ebb and flow 12:32 of religious expression around the world. 12:35 Issue after issue, Liberty has taken 12:37 on the tough assignments. 12:39 Tracking down threats to religious freedom 12:41 and exposing the work of the devil 12:42 in every corner of the globe. 12:44 Governmental interference, personal attacks, 12:47 corporate assaults, even religious freedom issues 12:50 sequestered within the church community itself 12:52 have been clearly and honestly exposed. 12:55 Liberty exists for one purpose to help God's people 12:59 maintain that all important separation 13:01 of church and state while recognizing 13:04 the dangers inherent in such a struggle. 13:07 During the past century, 13:08 Liberty has experienced challenges of its own, 13:10 but it remains on the job. 13:13 Thanks to the inspired leadership 13:14 of a long line of dedicated Adventist editors, 13:17 three of whom represent almost half 13:19 of the publications' existence and the foresight 13:21 of a little woman from New England. 13:24 One hundred years of struggle, 100 years of victories, 13:28 religious freedom isn't just about political machines 13:31 and cultural prejudices. 13:33 It's about people fighting for the right to serve the God 13:37 they love as their hearts and the Holy Spirit dictate. 13:41 Thanks to the prayers and generous support 13:43 of Seventh-day Adventists everywhere. 13:46 Liberty will continue to accomplish 13:48 its work of providing timely information, 13:50 spirit filled inspiration, 13:51 and heaven sent encouragement to all 13:54 who long to live and work in a world 13:57 bound together by the God 13:59 ordained bonds of religious freedom. 14:12 Welcome back to the "Liberty Insider." 14:14 Before the break, I was talking with guest, 14:16 Dwayne Leslie about-- 14:21 Well, about secularism in general, 14:22 but I want to tell you a story. 14:23 When I was in Australia-- I'm originally from Australia, 14:26 so I feel like at home there. 14:27 And part of my coming home experience 14:31 since last time was between meetings, 14:34 and we were at meeting of experts for IRLA. 14:36 Between meetings, I went to 14:39 a fish and chips shop at a beach one day. 14:44 You know, they have many things 14:45 besides fish and chips, 14:46 but that's the indigenous one. It's not indigenous. 14:49 I think it came from Ireland. It actually did. 14:51 The fish and chips, and of course, the chips. 14:53 The chips came from South America, 14:56 but that's a complex story, it's a different shop. 14:59 And I went to this shop 15:00 and here's a woman with quite an Australian accent, 15:03 but I'm becoming more sensitive to accents, 15:06 and there's a little twist to her accent. 15:07 So I said, "Where are you from?" 15:09 And she says, "Oh, I'm from Egypt." 15:12 She says, "I'm a Coptic Christian." 15:15 And so that lead to a long discussion. 15:18 Had a very interesting discussion. 15:19 And I told her, "I was with Liberty Magazine. 15:21 I'm working for religious freedom." 15:23 And she kept saying, "I wish my husband were here. 15:25 He has so many opinions on this. 15:26 He would love to talk to you." 15:28 You know, she was really energized. 15:30 And apart from other topics, 15:32 we finally got onto talking about Australia 15:34 and its secular mindset. 15:36 And she says, "This country is so secular." 15:38 She says, "Religion doesn't matter here." 15:40 She says, "They don't know, 15:41 what it's like in my family, and my country." 15:44 She says, "Well, I was persecuted for my faith." 15:46 And she says, "They're so secular here." 15:49 She said that, 15:50 "They are actually vulnerable to offbeat 15:54 sort of religious sentiment." 15:56 And I had never thought of it that way. 15:57 She says, "They're like naive to religion." 16:00 And then I remembered something. 16:04 In fact, I discussed it with her 16:05 that I had seen on the TV 16:06 in Australia a little bit earlier, 16:08 a bizarre happenstance. 16:12 On TV, we saw the actual event 16:14 where a policeman stopped a woman from speeding. 16:19 And he asked her to get out of the car. 16:20 She was an Australian. 16:22 And I was gonna say, indigenous, but that's not true. 16:25 The indigenous Australia are aborigines. 16:27 But she was a true blue Australian as they say. 16:30 Very heavy, almost cockney Australian accent, 16:34 but she had a Burqa on. 16:37 A full one and her face was covered. 16:39 And the minute she gets out of the car on the police camera. 16:42 She's just swearing at him. 16:45 Blue murder. Just calling him everything under the sun. 16:48 You so and so and all this. 16:50 And he says, "Madam, will you please--" 16:51 He asked for the license. 16:53 He says, "Will you please take off your, your--" 16:57 The Burqa. Burqa. 16:59 He didn't say Chador, but it was more like a Chador. 17:01 It was a full ankle length. 17:04 And no, I will not, shouted are you so and so. 17:07 You're police brutality. 17:08 He hadn't laid a finger on her. 17:10 And so he booked her and arrested her. 17:15 Then it went to court. And can you believe? 17:17 And this is where I saw it on TV, 17:18 it was just after the court case. 17:20 The judge released her because it could not be proven 17:24 that she was the person that he arrested 17:26 since they had never seen her face. 17:29 So she never took off the Burqa. 17:31 No, no, but that there were new riots in the streets. 17:38 Not so much by Australians, but by her supporters. 17:40 Just viciously attacking the authorities 17:43 and pushing and shoving and religious persecution, 17:46 and all the rest. 17:48 And then other Australians are just looking on blindly. 17:51 This woman made the comment. I think she's correct. 17:53 That you know, Islam is, is Islamist, 17:56 not a matter of the Islam is wrong, 17:58 but the worst elements in this particular religion 18:01 seem to be attracting some of these people. 18:03 'Cause they had no point of reference. 18:06 from any religion. 18:07 They were not Christian. They were post-Christian. 18:08 They didn't care for any religion. 18:10 But the quaintness of the Burqa in this case, 18:14 I think attracted this woman, 18:15 who underneath was just a tough inner city woman 18:18 who was not spiritually minded at all. 18:21 So what you're saying is that the secularism is being 18:27 so infused in society made them 18:30 not really sensitive to religiously-- 18:32 Religiously naive. Right. And very vulnerable to-- 18:36 I use, I shouldn't use the word extremist, 18:38 but you know, an oddball application 18:40 of a particular religion. 18:43 And I've to admit, but that's probably true in Australia. 18:47 And you saw it when you were down there. 18:49 It's not necessarily antagonism, open antagonism to religion, 18:53 but it's an indifference to religion. 18:54 Religion doesn't matter day, 18:57 for the daily life of the country. 18:59 'Cause I think that there's a difference 19:00 in certain places in Europe. 19:02 I think there's an actual overt antagonism. 19:04 Yes. Where as in Australia. 19:05 No, I don't think it's an antagonism. Right. 19:07 People are just there more focused like religion 19:09 has no bearing in my life, yeah. 19:11 I don't want to even deal with it. 19:13 But if you want to, that's fine, 19:15 but don't talk to me about it. 19:17 And I must say, and this doesn't further 19:18 our discussion of secularism. 19:19 But I had interesting discussions 19:21 when I was there after that and a few others like it. 19:24 When I went to the markets and other places, 19:25 I start asking people. "Where are you from?" 19:27 Because Australia is like the U.S 19:30 and could argue even perhaps 19:31 more than the U.S, a melting pot. 19:35 There are Greeks and more people, 19:42 Italians and people from all throughout 19:44 the Middle East and Europe. 19:46 And I found that there are bunch of Turks. 19:48 They were-- What about the groups. 19:52 It's very diverse. 19:53 In northern Turkey, in northern Iraq 19:55 The Kurds. The Kurds. 19:57 I came across a number of Kurdish 19:59 people running convenient stores, 20:02 and they told me the story of persecution 20:04 and again in Turkey with Kemal Ataturk. 20:07 He'd come in and try to bring secularism. 20:09 And I remember one fellow said, 20:11 "Kemal Ataturk, he told us good things. 20:13 But when the country was established, 20:15 he told the Kurds, 20:16 for the good of the nation, you keep quiet. 20:18 We don't, we can't accommodate you." 20:20 And as very often the case, 20:21 you know, an ethnic subset in a country 20:24 often comes with a, 20:26 if not a different religion entirely, 20:28 a different religious practice. 20:30 So there's always an element 20:32 of religious persecution there. 20:35 And in Australia though that there, 20:36 but there's a certain degree of tolerance 20:38 for religion, isn't there? 20:39 There's tolerance for religion, 20:41 there's not much tolerance for religious talk. 20:43 I was running close to the wind and these people, 20:46 you know, I figure, you know, I chose my marks well. 20:48 But I've actually seen it in Australia. 20:50 If you start to talk religion to a person in the street, 20:53 they might swear and curse at you, 20:54 they don't want it. 20:56 And you'll rarely get that in the United States as you know. 20:59 People have a more of an innate respect for religious talk. 21:02 So is there much active 21:04 evangelism in there, in Australia? 21:06 There is, but it's not traditional evangelism. 21:09 And it's-- Now that's another question, 21:11 but those in Australia, 21:14 especially my own church watching. 21:17 Be aware. But it is more complex there. 21:22 And to some degree, as Paul said, 21:24 you have to, said, when he went to Athens, 21:28 you have to contact people where they are. 21:31 But I believe in evangelistic fashion, 21:33 you take them from the common denominated 21:35 point quickly to what you're about. 21:37 You just don't leave it on sort of 21:39 a feel good relationship where, 21:41 because you haven't challenge their assumption. 21:45 You know, they're not threatened 21:46 by your religious viewpoint, right. 21:48 At some point, you have to interject it. 21:51 What did you take away from 21:52 from that discussion now secularism in Australia? 21:54 It was, it was pretty free ranging, wasn't it? 21:56 Now it was, I mean. 21:57 And again, one of the things 21:59 that the meeting of expert does being sort of a small, 22:02 high level academic conference, 22:04 to really get a chance to dig in to, 22:06 not only the academic, 22:07 but some of the practical implications from it. 22:10 And one, it was interesting to actually, 22:11 as we've just discussed, what's going on, 22:14 on the ground in Australia. 22:16 But again to look sort of at the more subtle issues, 22:19 in terms of how secularism 22:21 impacts not only our political life, 22:24 but as we go into an electoral season, 22:27 and then also what's going on in Europe to the extent 22:29 that secularism impacts the laws 22:31 that are being drafted to possibly 22:34 impact the rights of religious minorities? 22:37 Yeah. You know, we're talking, 22:39 I remember saying that you wouldn't 22:43 automatically think could be applied here, 22:44 but if you heard that comment. 22:46 "There are no atheists in the trenches." Right. 22:51 How true it is, I don't know, what I mean is, 22:53 I'm sure that there are some hard-bitten cynics 22:55 that even faced with dead, 22:57 they're not gonna give it all the way 22:58 and cry out for a deity. 23:00 But most people generally and extremists 23:03 wanted some spiritual support before back 23:06 and what the society or their parents told them. 23:09 I really think we're about to see 23:11 that worked out corporately. 23:13 Wherein Europe, they're collapsing economically. 23:17 The United States is suffering similarly 23:19 and whole world will feel the shocks of this. 23:22 As these natural supports, and of course, 23:24 secularism highly depends upon 23:26 a comfortable standard of living 23:29 and you know, not the myriad stresses 23:32 that other generations have known. 23:34 I myself think that secularism can evaporate very quickly, 23:40 faced with a lack of its supports 23:43 and it will move quickly into what in Europe 23:46 used to the traditional religious alliances. 23:49 If you're in Germany, reflexly Lutheran. 23:52 If you're in Italy, reflexly Roman Catholic. 23:55 I think those things are gonna kick in. 23:57 Well, I think you're right. 23:58 Because I think people, people don't often focus on the fact 24:01 that secularism typically thrives 24:03 in good economic times, yeah. 24:05 But when things are not going well, 24:07 we're going to see. 24:08 Like I said, people finding 24:10 that what they're used to is suddenly crumbling. 24:12 And they're gonna be looking for other, other alternatives. 24:15 Well, and I need to qualify it a little bit more. 24:17 I know that life is fairly complex. 24:19 I think as a generality, 24:20 people will fallback on their innate religious assumptions. 24:24 Those that don't, 24:26 will fall toward extreme solutions, 24:29 and that's where socialism 24:30 and militant communism gained its strength, 24:33 where, you know, revolutionary fervor. 24:35 But as I always felt the little observation, 24:38 direct observation I had of communism, 24:40 it clearly was a religion of man, 24:42 but it-- I don't believe that secularism 24:45 per se is a religious contact or a religious model, 24:48 but communism was very much-- Right. 24:50 Structured like a religion and man's own perfectibility. 24:55 So we maybe enabling, if not communism 24:57 that same sort of revolutionary dynamic. 24:59 Well, I think the next couple of years 25:01 are gonna be very interesting, no question. 25:03 Because as we go through again the electoral cycle here. 25:07 I think a lot of issues are gonna play out. 25:09 We've talked about on this various shows too, 25:12 but just as we look 25:14 at the economic condition of the world, 25:15 and I think that a lot is happening. 25:18 And as Seventh-day Adventist Christians, 25:21 I think that we really have to pay close attention 25:24 to what's going on in the world. 25:25 And so that kind of leads us 25:27 to why this conference is so important 25:29 because as we look to what's going on in the world, 25:32 we want to be able talk about the issues in Europe, 25:34 in South America, in the United States. 25:37 And be able to hopefully 25:38 provide some sort of framework to individuals 25:42 who are interested in that. 25:44 So they can help to understand. 25:45 They can understand world events better, 25:47 but then also to see what's coming down the pipe. 25:50 Absolutely, and this is an indispensable role of the IRLA 25:53 that it brings together disparate individuals 25:56 and groups, and belief systems. 25:58 And we can share, we can learn from each other, 26:00 and if we have truth, 26:02 it will out in that sort of a context. 26:04 We're not forcing anyone on anyone, 26:06 anything on anyone. 26:07 But I think there's an educational process, 26:09 a dynamic that is very positive 26:11 from all the work of the IRLA. 26:13 And I know with you, I really hope that 26:15 this conference in Punta Cana is a great success. 26:18 And that's really our goal. 26:19 One of the things that we want to do as I said to, 26:21 is to educate and to have people, to have, 26:23 really have an opportunity to sit down 26:26 and talk with people of all face 26:28 from all over the world, to learn. 26:30 And we can hopefully provide them 26:32 with requisite tools and information, 26:35 a chance to network, 26:37 and to also enjoy themselves in a nice location. 26:40 And so, at the end of the day, 26:42 we really want to focus on providing religious freedom 26:45 and bringing people together to support that cause. 26:49 When I was much younger 26:51 and not so believing of the faith certainties. 26:53 I remember debating once with a minister friend, 26:57 and after about an hour of jesting with him on 27:00 whether or not this was true 27:01 and giving philosophical answers to this or that. 27:04 He said, the trouble is-- 27:05 He says, "You just won't believe." 27:07 Well, that really is what it is with the secularists today. 27:11 There are as many reasons to believe in God 27:14 and to have faith as ever before 27:16 with the collapsing world economy 27:17 and the changing certainties to, 27:21 certainly uncertainties of modern life. 27:24 You could argue that the secularist 27:26 perhaps is a dying breed. 27:28 But as the Bible says, "He that cometh to God 27:31 must first believe that He is." 27:34 It's the challenge of those 27:35 of faith to bear with those secularists. 27:39 We're in a modern world. 27:40 There are very many secular concerns, 27:43 but we need to be concerned 27:45 that those secularists are not avoiding 27:48 and denying themselves the very true reality of faith 27:52 and the certainty that comes from knowing a God, 27:55 serving a God, 27:56 and demanding as religious liberty activists do, 27:59 that all of that frame of wine be empowered 28:01 and authorized to believe so. 28:05 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17