Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Dwayne Leslie
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000149
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00:23 Welcome to "The Liberty Insider."
00:25 This is the program that brings you 00:26 up-to-date news, views, information, and discussion 00:29 on religious liberty events 00:30 in the United States and around the world. 00:33 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:37 And my guest on the program is Dwayne Leslie. 00:41 Dwayne, welcome. Thank you. 00:42 And I need to tell our viewers what you do. 00:46 Your work for the Seventh-day Adventist Church 00:48 World Headquarters in Washington DC 00:50 and you're the legislative liaison 00:52 to the U.S., Congress basically. 00:55 That's correct, yes. I, being in the-- 00:58 padding up the legislative affairs 00:59 for the world church, I'm in Washington. 01:01 And I represent the church to the administration, 01:04 to Capitol Hill and then also to the diplomatic community. 01:07 Very good, I'd be remiss if I didn't make 01:10 a liberty connection not with you 01:11 but the position you're holding. 01:14 The Seventh-day Adventist Church 01:15 has long been interested in religious freedom 01:18 and in liaison to Washington 01:20 and the first editor of our religious liberty journal, 01:23 Alonzo T. Jones, had a lot of dealings with Congress, 01:28 gave congressional testimony 01:29 on in Cyprian Sunday Law in his day. 01:31 All right. Back in the late 1880s. 01:34 Tell me what you've discovered already 01:36 in the hectic few months 01:38 that you've been working in Washington. 01:42 Do we have a ready ear with some of these Legislatives? 01:44 Do they want to talk about religious freedom? 01:46 Well, it's interesting I think we're seeing 01:48 much more of an up-take right now 01:50 as we head into the election season, 01:53 but the issues that I think of particular interest are 01:56 what's going on all over the world internationally, 01:59 much less so domestic issues. 02:01 In prior congresses, there were specific domestic issues 02:04 that really rallied the community together. 02:06 What we're finding is that 02:08 there are a lot of anti-religion laws 02:10 being passed all over the world. 02:11 And so what we're doing in our department 02:14 is trying to work with U.S. resources 02:16 and State Department or the embassies 02:18 to try to put some international pressure 02:21 to protect religion everywhere. 02:22 That's interesting, you bring up the anti-religion 02:24 measures on this program. 02:26 We'd discussed not too long ago 02:29 the United Nation's initiatives 02:30 that have been spearheaded by a number of countries, 02:33 most of them Islamic, where they were bringing in 02:37 guidelines called "Anti-Defamation Laws" 02:39 where they were really making it an international crime 02:43 of sorts to speak ill of their religion. 02:48 And I know this troubled the western powers. 02:50 Has anything happened on that? 02:52 I believe that it was a resolution from the U.N. 02:54 but how formal that was and whether it's possible 02:58 to revoke that I don't know. 02:59 Well, I know that there has been quite a bit of discussion 03:01 with the United Nations on the Anti-Defamation Law 03:04 but I've really-- because we have someone who is 03:07 from the church, who actually is in New York, 03:09 who's been more focused on that. 03:10 I've been really looking at from the other end 03:13 with the protection of the rights of religious minorities 03:16 because Pakistan is a classic example 03:18 where they had a defamation law, 03:20 but then there was political persecution 03:22 for people who would speak out against that. 03:25 And that's something that we're really concerned 03:26 about because we wanna make sure 03:28 that religious minorities are protected all over the world. 03:32 And my observation on Pakistan is, 03:34 yes, because of the strong Islamic society 03:38 and some extreme elements they invoke 03:41 this defamation of Islam often with scary results, 03:45 where people are subject to the death penalty. 03:47 But nearly always there is a political reason 03:51 why they've invoked that. 03:53 There is a political agenda and the religion 03:56 is invoked to serve a political cause. 03:58 And it just reminds me that we need to be always pushing 04:02 for the separation of church and state. 04:04 Absolutely. We can't change the nature of religion. 04:07 It's not our business, is it? 04:08 Not all. As Christians we can project our religion 04:11 in the most winsome way possible, 04:14 but I don't think it's the business of those 04:16 in the religious liberty circles 04:18 to denature any religion from its claims. 04:21 All right, because I think what government 04:23 should hopefully realize is there is a certain benefit 04:25 to having diversity of religion. 04:27 And just, unfortunately when certain groups 04:30 have power it's very easy to trample upon the rights 04:33 of those that are smaller in number. 04:35 Yeah, I got the idea the other day. 04:39 You and I actually attended a meeting 04:43 near the White House where we heard some feedback 04:47 from what's going on and I got the distinct impression 04:50 that the United States has been able to, 04:53 if not turn back and maybe moderate this U.N. initiative. 04:57 Well, I think it remains to be seen, 04:59 but I think there is definitely interest in bringing 05:01 sort of a global pressure to do this because this is, 05:05 this is something which is a very serious issue 05:07 and we're concerned about it. 05:09 What do you see coming up on the horizon 05:11 within the U.S. through the government? 05:14 Are there legislative proposals 05:17 that might have religious implications 05:19 or religious liberty implications? 05:21 In terms of U.S. Legislation that-- Yeah. 05:25 Well, I think right now this has been 05:27 a bit of a quiet period, but I think we're gonna 05:29 start to see some things heat up. 05:31 I think one area that's been a bit of a political fight 05:34 is the reauthorization of the U.S. Commission 05:36 on International Religious Freedom. 05:38 And so what we're finding is we have 05:41 that which is there in essence a watchdog agency 05:44 but you also have the State Department 05:46 International Religious Freedom Office 05:47 and some time they're with each other. 05:50 And as it's going through the process 05:52 we found that there have been some people 05:55 that want to actually diminish their standing for that 05:58 and even though sometimes those groups 06:00 don't always work in context with each other. 06:02 We still would hate to see one of the bodies charged 06:05 with promoting religious freedom to actually 06:08 either be go away or reduced in stature. 06:10 We need to explain for our viewers, 06:12 what is the U.S. Commission on religious freedom. 06:15 Sure. How is it set up for example? 06:17 Well, the U.S. Commission was established, 06:20 in essence to be a watchdog agency 06:22 but unfortunately with the way it's actually been implemented 06:27 sometimes it's a little unclear 06:28 as to who has the proper authority internationally. 06:31 But what they do is they look at countries around the world, 06:34 they issue an annual report that identifies countries 06:38 that are not doing, that are not promoting 06:40 religious freedom and they work with other, 06:46 with the government basically to protect religions. 06:49 Yeah, that be nine commissioners-- 06:50 That's correct. As I understand 06:51 and an executive director and I believe, 06:55 in fact, I know in reality, they've reported pretty must 06:59 to the U.S. Ambassador for religious freedom 07:01 or at least informed him. 07:05 Well, actually not reported to the U.S. Ambassador, 07:08 is actually an ex-officio member of the Commission 07:11 but the U.S. Ambassador actually-- 07:13 Yeah, brings it, brings it. That's true. 07:16 Because that position actually works 07:17 with the State Department. 07:21 Yeah, and it's worth mentioning that James Standish 07:25 who once held your opposition for a short time was actually 07:29 the executive director of the U.S. Commission. 07:31 That's correct. So we've had some direct involvement, 07:37 by extension from our church. 07:39 I must tell you and the viewers 07:42 what's stuck in my mind about the U.S. Commission 07:44 was once in New York I sat in a meeting 07:46 where one of the members, a young woman, 07:50 a Buddhist I believe was her religious affiliation, 07:53 but one of the commission members gave a report 07:56 on what the commission had been doing 07:58 in Iraq and Afghanistan. 08:01 And she was scandalized and did not hold back in 08:05 giving her cautions on the fact 08:07 that in both those countries we had allowed somehow, 08:12 not been able to prevent the adoption of constitutions 08:16 that put the Qur'an as the reference point 08:20 for all the lawyers there. 08:22 Well, but in a situation like that though again where, 08:26 where religious power equates the political power 08:29 and you don't have representation 08:30 or protection of religious minorities, 08:32 then you're gonna have those situations. 08:34 Yeah, well, here was a case where the commission, 08:37 I think clearly identified the problem 08:39 but they didn't have the direct political power to-- 08:42 Right. To push the government to intervene. 08:46 I mean it might not have been proper for the U.S. 08:48 to intervene so directly as to prohibit those constitutions 08:53 but we certainly as an occupier of Iraq 08:57 and a big partner with the Afghan government. 09:00 We had more than some little influence to direct 09:04 how those constitutions were formulated. 09:06 And I think that there is actually, 09:08 you ask about growing trends. 09:09 I think there is an increasing trend right now 09:12 to look at the protection of religious freedom 09:15 as a component of U.S. formed policy. 09:18 And so we think that's something 09:20 that could actually hopefully be beneficial. 09:22 Yeah, that's good. And you know, 09:24 all American citizens and I think the citizens 09:27 of other countries around the world 09:28 that value religious freedom can be encouraged 09:31 that the United States is consistently 09:34 taken the task of sort of being a watchdog 09:38 on religious liberty around the world. 09:40 I mean, the U.S. cannot be the world's policeman, 09:42 I think that's a bit of a misnomer. 09:44 Absolutely. But it's a large enough country 09:46 and you can debate its influence I think in the world 09:50 that it might be a little bit on the wane at the moment 09:52 but still a predominant country 09:54 and so if the U.S. speaks favorably 09:57 and forcibly for religious freedom, 09:58 I think that carries a lot of weight. 10:00 Now, I completely agree and it's the right thing to do 10:04 and it sets a good example for some of the other countries 10:08 that are not as progressive on that front. 10:11 So in another program, in other time I'd like to talk 10:15 about religion during the political season, 10:18 yeah, the presidential season 10:20 but I know at the moment things are sort of frozen. 10:24 Right. But looking ahead what do you see, 10:27 some of the-- maybe rather than 10:30 what you see coming up legislatively. 10:32 What opportunities do you think we have to participate 10:36 in the dynamic in Washington for religious freedom? 10:40 You know, what entities we can make with 10:43 and who were some of the major players 10:45 that have impressed you? 10:46 Well, I think what viewers should really understand 10:50 is that they can actually make a difference 10:51 because even in Washington, 10:53 even though regardless of the problems that they might have, 10:57 they still want to know what's happening 10:58 at the grassroots level. 10:59 And so when issues of religious freedom 11:02 or other things that are important to you come up 11:04 you should absolutely not hesitate 11:06 to contact your representative and make your voice be heard. 11:10 That's a good point. You know, the dealings 11:13 I have had now that you've found it out. 11:14 They pay big attention and often in different meetings 11:17 they'll quote just a handful of letters 11:19 that they've got in, it catches their attention. 11:21 They really do because what happens 11:22 is that people will write and you might get a standard 11:25 formal letter back but people, 11:26 they actually really do track that 11:28 because they really wanna have a sense 11:30 for what's going on with their constituency 11:32 and if something upsets you, you should absolutely call, 11:34 write, email and they really will take that seriously. 11:37 Yeah, very good. Now I'm sure already 11:41 you're being in, you're becoming involved 11:43 in a bunch of maybe not so much formal committees 11:50 or anything but there are a lot of advisories 11:52 and avenues for someone like yourself to become 11:56 involved in the Washington seat right. 11:59 Well, one of the things, that's very useful 12:01 is working with other people who have similar interest 12:04 in protecting religious freedom 12:06 and so representing our church and our interest to say that, 12:09 well, we wanna protect the rights of religion everywhere, 12:13 but also to make sure that within our own church 12:15 that we have a voice and a seat at the table. 12:18 Yeah, and I'm sure you'll always make it clear 12:21 to these contacts that you're representing 12:23 the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 12:24 Absolutely. I'm still a little bit mused 12:27 a few years ago and I won't name the individual 12:29 but there is fairly prominent Seventh-day Adventist. 12:35 Who was actually socially involved 12:37 in the Washington area 12:38 and knew some of the very high level people 12:40 and I quizzed him publicly once. 12:42 I said, do these people know you're a Seventh-day Adventist 12:45 and he couldn't give a definitive answer on that. 12:47 Well, now, well, that's-- Yeah. 12:49 That's not something that I'm trying to do. 12:50 No, I know. That I'm just bringing it up 12:52 because I know that you're very upfront. 12:56 You know, there's one thing to be personally 12:58 connected into the network, which you will become. 13:02 But the bottom line on this is to witness, 13:05 witness for Christianity and the values, 13:09 the dignity of an individual, the worship 13:11 or not worship God as they moved. 13:13 Right. I mean obviously it's a disaster 13:17 for that individual if they choose not to acknowledge God 13:19 but we can't force them into it. Absolutely. 13:22 But we need to create the environment where-- 13:25 And to be an effective witness-- 13:27 So the people when they hear Seventh-day Adventist 13:29 and they hear what we're doing 13:31 that we provide a positive witness to the world. 13:33 We'll be back after a short break 13:35 and I'll continue this discussion with Dwayne Leslie. 13:47 One hundred years a long time 13:49 to do anything much less publish a magazine. 13:52 But this year Liberty the Seventh-day Adventist voice 13:56 to religious freedom celebrates 100 years 13:59 of doing what it does best. 14:01 Collecting, analyzing, and reporting 14:03 the ebb and flow of religious expression around the world. 14:07 Issue after issue, Liberty has taken 14:10 on the tough assignments, tracking down threads 14:12 to religious freedom and exposing the work of the devil 14:15 in every corner of the globe. 14:17 Governmental interference, personal attacks, 14:20 corporate assaults, even religious freedom issues 14:22 sequestered within a church community itself 14:25 have been clearly and honestly exposed. 14:27 Liberty exists for one purpose. 14:30 To help God's people maintain that all important 14:33 separation of church and state while recognizing 14:36 the dangers inherent in such a struggle. 14:39 During the past century, Liberty has experienced 14:41 challenges of its own but it remains on the job. 14:45 Thanks to the inspired leadership 14:47 of a long line of dedicated Adventist editors. 14:49 Three of whom represent almost half 14:51 of the publication's existence 14:53 and the foresight of a little woman from New England. 14:56 One hundred years of struggle, 100 hundred of victories. 15:00 Religious freedom isn't just about political machines 15:03 and cultural prejudices it's about people 15:07 fighting for the right to serve the God they love 15:10 as their hearts and the Holy Spirit dictate. 15:14 Thanks to the prayers and generous support 15:16 of Seventh-day Adventists everywhere. 15:18 Liberty will continue to accomplish its work 15:20 of providing timely information, 15:22 spirit-filled inspiration and heaven sent encouragement 15:25 to all who long to live and work in a world bound together 15:30 by the God ordained bonds of religious freedom. 15:45 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider. 15:47 Before the break I was talking with guest Dwayne Leslie 15:50 about his work in Washington. 15:52 And you're the legislative liaison 15:54 for the Seventh-day Adventist Church 15:56 World Headquarters to Washington. 15:59 Let's go sort of globally for the moment. 16:01 You know, there some global issues 16:03 that definitely come up in discussion in Washington 16:07 even though the congress and senator, 16:09 intensively you're dealing with U.S. governance, 16:11 it's amazing how much of the concern is international. 16:15 But I'd like to talk with you for a moment about a trend 16:19 that we've seen going back some decades now 16:22 in France for example, 16:23 where we had a minister of religion 16:25 who had very clear cut prejudiced ideas 16:28 on some other religions beyond his own. 16:31 And they started registering all the religions 16:34 or sects as they call them. S-E-C-T-S. 16:39 And Seventh-day Adventist were registered. 16:41 Some like Jehovah's Witnesses were deregistered. 16:44 And that had huge implications for the real 16:48 everyday freedom of religions to operate. 16:51 Is that phenomenon finished? 16:53 No, actually I think what we're actually seeing 16:55 is that's being exported to other countries in Europe. 16:58 Now, some people say, it's done on a coordinated basis. 17:01 Some say it's a coincidence, 17:03 but what we're finding is that the same, 17:06 if you look at the laws in France, 17:08 which have now go over to Belgium. 17:10 You have a very similar law over there 17:12 and what we're seeing are many laws 17:14 that are one anti-sect and two anti-religion in general. 17:18 And that's something in our office we're very concerned 17:20 about and we're watching and we wanna speak out against it. 17:23 And in some ways, I mean, it can be discussed 17:26 from several angles but I almost see 17:28 this is a backdoor way to have 17:30 an established government authorized church 17:33 because hugely this is a religious majority 17:35 or religious entities that the church, 17:39 that the state looks favorably upon. Right. 17:41 And then I start to showing others 17:44 that they suspect for any number of reasons. 17:47 But the end effect is that one group 17:49 or at best a few groups are very favored 17:53 by the government and others are restricted. 17:56 Right, 'cause I think we would be very concern 17:57 in some case it's economic issue 18:00 because where you have, in some countries 18:02 where there is economic support given, 18:04 they don't want people to leave 18:05 because that's lesser money that they would get. 18:07 Yes, and this is something 18:09 that we'd mentioned on this program before 18:10 but people need to realize religious, 18:13 well, religious liberty in its pure 18:15 theoretical form is truly spiritual. 18:17 But how it's administrated in countries, 18:21 religious persecution is the, you know, 18:22 is the antithesis of religious freedom. 18:25 But it's usually not as simple as, I hate your religion, 18:28 I'm going to punish you. 18:30 It is usually political considerations. 18:33 It is usually economic things. 18:34 There's geopolitical things, maybe patterns of immigration-- 18:41 Right. Can sort of stir off religious sentiment 18:44 against our former group. 18:46 Because you see that sometime's 18:47 anti-proselytizing legislation-- 18:50 which is often closely tied to anti-sect 18:53 because when you read some of the specifics 18:55 of these legislations you'll see them talk about, 18:58 you know, brainwashing or mental manipulation 19:02 and anything that would sort of take people away 19:05 from the majority religion of that state. 19:08 Well, I remember in Sri Lanka a few years ago 19:10 with Dr. John Grates, who, you know, with his associate-- 19:13 Yeah. He and I visited Sri Lanka 19:15 and they were in the process of passing a law 19:17 which I don't think ever truly got ratified. 19:20 It was declared unconstitutional at one point. 19:23 But it was actually imposing at it's maximum point 19:25 a death penalty for a coercion or coerced conversion, 19:31 but everything rode on what was coercion. 19:34 Well, right, because if you were to have 19:36 an evangelistic crusade and people come in 19:38 and were to get baptized and convert over. 19:41 Is that coercion? Is it not? And-- 19:43 Yeah, in the way we read it, 19:45 yes, they would say it was coercion 19:47 because you had been offered enticements. 19:49 If you were enticed and we like to think-- 19:53 And it's often seen that someone 19:55 that comes out of a new religious background 19:57 maybe with Seventh-day Adventist Church 20:00 has good health reform principles-- 20:02 Right. So when they change their lifestyle 20:04 as well as their religious allegiance 20:06 they usually improve their personal state. 20:08 They're more responsible. 20:10 They often improve themselves economically. 20:12 Well, in Sri Lanka that would be just proved positive 20:15 that you had been offered an enticement 20:17 to a wealthier way of life to leave your-- 20:21 the religion of your birth-- 20:22 And that's-- And in that country 20:24 the religion of your birth was seen to be synonymous 20:26 with the integrity of the state. 20:28 Right, and that's, that's really one of the problems 20:31 because again that's-- most religions, 20:34 that's how they often bring new people in. 20:36 And that's really protection, 20:40 protection of religious freedom, 20:42 because we can't have a situation 20:43 where people don't have the freedom to go 20:46 from one religion to the next. 20:47 Absolutely. Now you're starting to give examples 20:51 of where we see this registration 20:53 process working unfavorably. Right. 20:55 What's one of the more recent cases 20:56 that you can bring them out? 20:58 one of the things that is of great significant right now 21:01 is what's going on in the country of Hungary. 21:03 Hungary passed a law that was very anti-religion 21:07 and resulted in the deregistration of 344 churches 21:13 and religious groups including 21:14 the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 21:16 We're very concerned about it. 21:17 And the net result is that only 14 religions maintain 21:21 their legal status and now those that were "deregistered" 21:25 now have to submit an application, 21:27 a quite vigorous application and then that application 21:31 must get voted on by the Hungarian Parliament. 21:34 Now what is some of the-- let's just look at it closely. 21:37 They're deregistered, what does that mean 21:38 immediately what happens? What other things-- 21:40 Well, the law is passed but they are still, 21:44 it's not completely enacted just yet 21:46 and so that's why in interim we're trying to-- 21:48 Okay. Put some political pressure. 21:49 Let say, say the deregistration continues 21:52 and under the law you're not recognized anymore 21:55 as an official religion what would that mean? 21:58 Well, one of the first issues really would be 22:01 what we call tax exemption here. 22:04 And then you would also have certain limitations 22:06 on your freedom of assembly. 22:09 In this country obviously recognized churches 22:11 have the ability to do certain things 22:13 but if you're not a recognized church. 22:15 Again back to the evangelism, 22:16 the state could very easily say, 22:18 you can't hold a public meeting 22:22 because you're not a recognized entity. 22:24 Well, they probably would say that, 22:25 very few people realize even in the United States 22:29 that there are quite severe restrictions 22:31 on large meetings if you don't have 22:34 an accepted meeting place or if you don't have parking-- 22:38 Right. There's so many regulations 22:39 we've had many articles in Liberty 22:41 where just Bible studies in homes 22:43 if they've seen negatively by the neighbors 22:45 they can invoke any number of laws 22:47 that can drive you out of existence. 22:48 Exactly, and you wanna have those protections 22:50 that are in place because if you don't have any status, 22:54 then you really have no rights. 22:55 So, basically you're legally marginalized. 22:57 Exactly. On any number of fronts. 23:00 In the workplace some of the members of that church would, 23:03 could be, well, they could be acted against 23:08 in a prejudicial way, sort of marginalized 23:10 and treated as a prier. 23:12 So very soon, we've seen in number of countries that, 23:15 well, it may not be that they're rounding people up 23:18 or putting them in prison, but over a number of years, 23:21 people just sort of drift away 23:22 and the organization ceases to exist. 23:24 Right. And it's unfortunate because Adventist Church 23:26 in Hungary has been in existence for over 100 years. 23:30 While it's small, about 5,000 members 23:33 and the government has assured us that, 23:35 oh, you know, we're not really targeting you, 23:38 you'll be okay but the problem is 23:41 we're still a minority religion 23:42 and we've to stand for the rights 23:43 of other minority religions in their country. 23:45 Who are they targeting? 23:46 What do you thinks behind the Hungary situation? 23:49 But again I think it's very similar 23:50 to what we're saying in France and Belgium. It's the "sects." 23:54 The small religions that they feel are possibly subversive 23:58 and their stated goal is that many of their religions 24:01 that got approved status were really shammed 24:04 or ways for people to get a financial or tax break. 24:08 You've got me. Even I read pretty much on these things 24:12 but I can't, thinking back on the articles I've read, 24:14 I can't remember that Hungary particularly is suffering 24:17 under the recent immigration 24:20 from the Middle East and other countries. 24:22 Is that what's troubling them? 24:24 I don't think that what it is. 24:25 I think what happened is there was a shift politically 24:27 in the country and so the new government 24:29 they came in and the political party 24:32 is much more conservative 24:34 and there's a strong Catholic influence-- 24:36 Well, that's what I was fishing for. 24:37 It's either an established church influence 24:39 or a fear of immigration of another religious entities, 24:44 so this it. Right. 24:45 And you know it's not confined to the Catholic Church. 24:47 Another area is the Eastern Orthodox 24:50 which has always, often had a, 24:52 before communism particularly in Eastern Europe 24:55 had a cozy relationship with the state. 24:56 It's sort of coming now into a new sense of power. 25:00 You know, we're the privileged church 25:01 and we'll restrict the others-- 25:02 Right. And so they moved into the government 25:04 and the next thing deregulate 25:07 or deregistering other churches. 25:09 Yeah, and to now go through that process 25:11 and to submit a form and basically have 25:14 government officials and members of parliaments. 25:15 So now it's politicized, making, you know, 25:19 what is an appropriate religion 25:21 and that's really unfortunate. 25:22 So I think the best, one of the best things 25:24 that we can do at least theologically 25:26 or philosophically is to explain to these countries 25:29 the value to the citizenry to accept this general principle, 25:35 the individual has the right and should have the right 25:38 and are most free when they can accept 25:41 or reject any religious identity on their own, 25:44 not have the government or even another church tell him. 25:47 Absolutely and so one of the things 25:49 that we're doing on that front is meeting 25:51 with representatives of the Hungarian Government 25:53 both at the United Nation, U.N. Mission 25:56 and then also with their embassy here. 25:58 I've had meetings with the State Department 26:00 talking to the about our concerns 26:02 both from our church's prospective 26:04 and then also for the other church's-- 26:05 So we have ongoing dialogs 26:07 that really can make a difference in this situation. 26:10 Right, because in that situation 26:11 that's one of the things I really try to do 26:13 is to go out and talk on behalf of our church, 26:17 so that we can, people can hear 26:20 what's going on internationally. 26:21 I can explain our concerns and really try to make it 26:26 so that everyone understands 26:27 that the protection of religious freedom 26:29 is of the utmost importance, 26:31 because it's a fundamental right 26:33 and it also degrades Hungary's status internationally 26:38 as a country that really should be standing 26:40 for human rights and the protection 26:42 of religious freedom for everyone. 26:44 And so we're gonna be very busy 26:46 in our department trying to dig that. 26:50 Of all of the fantastical stories 26:52 that I find in the Bible, none is more amazing 26:55 than the story of Daniel. 26:57 How this man could be the trusted confidant 27:01 of a succession of kings, despots, 27:03 rulers of the known world and not just different individuals 27:08 but different regimes, whole different people, 27:10 the Medes and the Persians 27:11 came in and replaced the Babylonians. 27:15 How did he do this? It seems to me he did this 27:18 because he was true to himself 27:19 and to his God, not just a, 27:22 yes ma'am to whatever the political entities require. 27:26 We have that same need today as people relate 27:29 on behalf of faith entities, on behalf of a church 27:33 such as the Seventh-day Adventist Church 27:34 and we have a liaison in Washington. 27:37 Dwayne Leslie is the man at the moment 27:40 and Dwayne and his predecessors 27:42 and those like him will succeed 27:44 only if they are true to the faith imperative. 27:48 They're not there to conspire with secular leaders. 27:52 They are there to present their faith to these leaders 27:55 who need to know what faith is all about. 27:58 They need to know that the same God can help them 28:01 and they need to know that the person 28:02 they're dealing with is a man of integrity. 28:06 This is Lincoln Steed for Liberty Insider. |
Revised 2014-12-17