Welcome to the
"Liberty Insider."
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This is the program
that brings you up-to-date
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news, views,
information, and discussion
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and my opinion on
religious liberty issues.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the program is
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Melissa Reid, Associate Editor
for Liberty Magazine. Yes.
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We can have rotating
guest but was come full circle
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and we're back to
our Liberty team today.
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You know, we're looking
not too far down the line
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and I don't know
exactly when this will be aired,
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but a year or more ahead we've
got our presidential elections
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coming up, the
funny season. Yeah.
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It wasn't called election,
the funny season. Oh really?
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But I haven't heard that
term but it makes perfect sense.
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People certainly
go a little crazy,
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but already in some of
the media I hear comments
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from different
figures expressing themselves
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on church and state in essence,
giving a sort of view point
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on whether America is a
Christian nation and so on.
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Have you heard anyone say that?
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Yes. Oh sure, you know, I think,
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right now as we're taping
this we're seeing the Republican
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primary candidate
sort of, you know--
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Testing the
field. Testing the field,
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exactly, exactly
and I think Republicans
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generally are more comfortable
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or I think that
their base appreciates more
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when they have
conversations about
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religion or their
faith in particular.
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But it's still sort of may
be sit up and pay attention
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at the 9/11 commemoration
at the Kennedy Center,
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the president got
up and gave a speech.
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First thing he said was
to read a Bible text. Yes.
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And I thought that's
appropriate but he can't be
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unaware that that sort
of stakes out the ground
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that he's an orthodox Christian.
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So in some ways,
even though I thought
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it was appropriate
that didn't offend me
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on the separation of
church and state. Right.
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It was a clearly
calculated religious--
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I'm trying to think
how to characterize it
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without
misrepresenting him. Yes.
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He was really staking
out a position on religion.
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Yes. It was a
deliberate action on his part.
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So we're seeing a
lot of that going on.
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What I wanted
to launch off with,
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and you haven't read
it, but I'll share it
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with you and our readers.
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As I saw a repeat-- a
report in the recent paper
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that came by my desk
on Billy Graham. Oh, okay.
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And his political activities.
I'm not familiar with.
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He goes way back
almost when I was very young
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and I know you probably you're
a little bit younger than me,
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I'll give you the
benefit, a good benefit.
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But, you know, I'm
sure when Billy Graham,
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do you mostly like
most of our viewers say,
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he is sort of figure
of yesteryear. Right.
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His highlight of
his political activities
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really goes back
to the Nixon era.
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So, I mean,
that's way back. Sure.
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But Billy Graham was reported
recently as saying something
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that just was in this
article that made me sit up.
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I'll read it so I
don't misrepresent him.
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It says here reading the author
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but then Billy
Graham's statement.
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It says, "Graham replied
that he wished he had spent
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more time with his
family." That's standard. Sure.
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Then he added, "I also would
have stayed clear of politics.
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I'm grateful for the
opportunities God gave me
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to minister to
people in high places,
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people in power have
spiritual and personal needs
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like everyone
else, and often they have
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no one to talk
to but looking back,
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I know, I
sometimes crossed the line
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and I wouldn't do that now."
That's an incredible admission.
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Yes. And then
they gave some evidence
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which I remember
myself at the time that he was
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such a partisan supporter
of the Nixon administration
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that at one
stage Sargent Shriver
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who was wanting to
run had called and asked
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Billy Graham to
pray, which would seem
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very innocuous
for a minister. Sure.
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And that was so
perplexing to Billy Graham
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that he called the
Nixon White house and said,
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would that be okay.
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Now to me that's
the evidence that
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he was a minister of
religion thoroughly entangled
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with the political
arrangements of his time
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that rather than
speaking truth to power
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or spirituality to power, right,
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he was part of
their very structure. Yes.
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And then following on from
that, they quote a memo from
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a Nixon aid to Nixon saying that
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Graham wanted to
appear bipartisan
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at least until about October.
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And then it says,
"that Graham had vowed to
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'do nothing to
hurt the president
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or to help my government.'"
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So, you know, an interesting
record of good Billy Graham
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who I have
wonderful feelings toward him.
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Right. Because
as a young fellow,
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I didn't so much watch all
of his political activities,
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but as a young fellow I remember
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being stirred in Australia,
when I saw a broadcast
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from the US, Billy Graham
in one of his crusades. Yes.
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And those sermons were
galvanizing back in his,
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in his early days.
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They were
thoroughly biblical sermons
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that made you sit up in
the seat and think, you know,
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am I committed to
God? You know what?
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What does my
spirituality require of me,
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is just sort of, you
know, read the Bible quietly
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or do I stand up and
proclaim and to do and to dare,
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I mean, it was very
challenging stuff. Yes, yes.
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So to me it's
problematic to read and to hear
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at the decline of his
life, Billy Graham looks back
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and says I shouldn't
have done that sort of stuff.
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Speaking to power is one thing
but I should not have inserted
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myself into those
political activities.
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Right, what's
interesting in my childhood,
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a very prominently religious
figure that I remember is
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Dr. James Dotson
focused on the family.
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And we know that he made
a very deliberate decision
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to become even more
involved in politics,
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actually started a
political action group.
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Well, do you
remember why he did that?
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You know I do.
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I think he wanted
to be more influential
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and feel more comfortable and--
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but the tipping point was
that the IRS started to suggest
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that his political activities
already was threatening
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the tax free status of his
religious organization. Yes.
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So since he had that
desire, he actually was forced.
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Yes. At least in the
tax exemption organization.
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But it's interesting that
he decided to go even further
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rather than
backing away from it.
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Yes, no, he made that faithful
choice that Billy Graham,
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yeah, clearly I think he used
the term, crossing the line.
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Yeah, for me, you
know, I remember being--
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I was not impressed that
he was--I was disappointed
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that he's
continued on in that manner.
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Because I felt like
he was such a--you know
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that his ministry
focused on the family
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offered such a
benefit to Christian families.
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And so to see him sort of
almost be lured by politics
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and the power and the influence.
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There it was disappointing.
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Well, I think
you've used the right word.
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May be you'll
have the same kind of,
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you know, looking
back in life and--
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You know, even if
it's not wrong always
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I think looking at it from a
purely Christian perspective,
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it's ill-advised
and it's compromising
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and it sets someone up to
be a facilitator of things
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that may actually
be directly opposed
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to the Kingdom of God.
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There was a book that
I never read to be honest
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but I read many
excepts, but it stuck in my mind
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because I went along
to an interview years ago
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with Chuck Colson,
yes, and he was promoting,
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actually pre-promoting because
it hadn't been get printed,
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his upcoming
book the Two Kingdoms
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I think it was called. Okay.
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And he dealt
amazingly with the same topic.
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There is the Kingdom of God,
and there is the secular kingdom
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and how does a person of
faith relate to the two. Yes.
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And if anyone would
know the problems that to be
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Chuck Colson, who admittedly
was not publicly Christian,
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I mean he was a
nominal Christian,
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but he had a
conversion in prison.
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You know, his
political activities
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really got him
in prison. Yes, yes.
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As a lawyer, he
should have known
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better but he
compromised his morality
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to such a degree
that it was a crime.
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And then on the
other side of the prison
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there's a born again
Christian, he could look fairly
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dispassionately on this issue
and I liked his conclusions.
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It wasn't that you
cant speak to both,
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obviously
Christianity is in the world,
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but not of the world. Right.
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But he saw this very
clear danger of someone
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who's nominally
dedicated to the Kingdom of God
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getting enmeshed
in the kingdom of man.
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Sure, you can't
serve two masters,
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isn't that what they say. Yeah.
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I wanted to point
out, I have been thinking
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in our conversation we have
this religious liberty dinner
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on Capitol Hill every
year and one of the things
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that we do is, if
a political figure
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has been vocal or, you know,
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about preserving
religious freedom,
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you know, in a
legislative process,
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then we like to
honor them at the event.
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And we usually have a
keynote speaker that's,
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you know, involved
in politics in someway.
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We are, I know that
we are very deliberate,
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first of all, we
make sure to alternate
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between political parties as
far as who we invite to the--
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I think it's a
good cause so that we
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don't unduly
appear partisan. Right.
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I mean, we're not
really on a quota system,
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but you're right.
We need to tell people
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that's part of what we do
to stay clear of favoritism.
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But even more important I
think is at the event itself,
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we make sure and let
people know we're honoring
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this individual for
this particular reason.
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We're not endorsing
them for their overall,
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you know, belief
system or whatever.
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We're just happy
that they have supported
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religious
freedom in this manner.
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And I think that,
you know, as a church,
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Seventh-day Adventist can be
really proud that we really do
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respect that line between
separation of church and state.
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Yes, and I think that's an
appropriate way to look at this.
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We need to recognize that
particular activity because,
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you know, Ellen
White who I refer to often
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in this program who was a
visionary and early Adventist.
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She warned
Seventh-day Adventists
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if they in a blanket way
supported a certain politician
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they would be responsible
for everything that was done,
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in essence in their name. Sure.
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And who of us would be
comfortable if someone says,
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you know, I agree with you,
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I like you and no matter
what you do, I agree with that.
00:11:01.90\00:11:06.07
Without having any sort of
00:11:06.08\00:11:07.19
control over
than what takes place.
00:11:07.20\00:11:08.26
That's a burden that I
wouldn't want to accept
00:11:08.27\00:11:10.23
for someone else, and
in reality all human beings
00:11:10.24\00:11:12.62
are fallible and the
church would not endorse
00:11:12.63\00:11:16.64
such behavior really and
Christ certainly doesn't say,
00:11:16.65\00:11:19.52
you know, you're my followers
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but whatever you
do just I accept you.
00:11:20.51\00:11:23.25
Some people
think Christ does that,
00:11:23.26\00:11:24.66
but He expects
certain behavior. Yes.
00:11:24.67\00:11:26.85
But I think in that
church and state dealings,
00:11:26.86\00:11:30.13
it's very
reasonable to as you say,
00:11:30.14\00:11:32.31
recognize a particular good
stance that this public person
00:11:32.32\00:11:36.80
has taken in this dynamic.
00:11:36.81\00:11:39.41
And the long point
I'm trying to build
00:11:39.42\00:11:41.70
to is that the
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:11:41.71\00:11:43.65
in the early days
fighting against alcohol. Yes
00:11:43.66\00:11:47.52
Which ended up with
the probation amendment.
00:11:47.53\00:11:52.04
Allied itself with the Women's
Christian Temperance Union,
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spoke very well
of them even though
00:11:54.78\00:11:56.40
on another part
of their activity
00:11:56.41\00:11:57.75
they were pushing for the
Sunday Law which we buzzed.
00:11:57.76\00:12:00.63
So we have to acknowledge
the good part of what
00:12:00.64\00:12:05.03
someone's doing and yet
we're not like Billy Graham,
00:12:05.04\00:12:08.70
unfortunately then, you know,
00:12:08.71\00:12:10.05
we're not part of
partisan that we just put
00:12:10.06\00:12:12.91
the cloak of religiosity
over everything. Yes.
00:12:12.92\00:12:18.24
That some organization may do.
00:12:18.25\00:12:20.96
I found a quote recently,
that I would like to share
00:12:20.97\00:12:23.98
after the break
with our viewers.
00:12:23.99\00:12:26.10
But a quote that really
talks about this challenge
00:12:26.11\00:12:28.91
that comes to a lot of people.
00:12:28.92\00:12:30.83
Billy Graham and
other public officials
00:12:30.84\00:12:34.96
placed themselves in a
position of great influence
00:12:34.97\00:12:37.15
but they often
cross that line between
00:12:37.16\00:12:39.89
influencing others and
being a false influencer
00:12:39.90\00:12:43.45
or combining
with the wrong forces.
00:12:43.46\00:12:46.64
So right after the
break, we'll be back
00:12:46.65\00:12:49.23
and I want to read a quote
and see what you think about it.
00:12:49.24\00:12:53.36
So stay with us,
we'll be right back.
00:12:53.37\00:12:54.98
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything,
00:13:03.98\00:13:07.79
much less publish a
magazine, but this year Liberty,
00:13:07.80\00:13:11.67
the Seventh-day Adventist
voice of religious freedom,
00:13:11.68\00:13:14.40
celebrates red years of
doing what it does best,
00:13:14.41\00:13:18.06
collecting,
analyzing, and reporting
00:13:18.07\00:13:20.66
the ebb and flow of
religious expression
00:13:20.67\00:13:22.77
around the world.
00:13:22.78\00:13:24.27
Issue after issue,
00:13:24.28\00:13:25.90
Liberty has taken on
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00:13:25.91\00:13:28.25
tracking down
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00:13:28.26\00:13:30.39
and exposing the
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00:13:30.40\00:13:31.94
in every corner of the globe.
00:13:31.95\00:13:34.11
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:34.12\00:13:36.90
corporate assaults,
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00:13:36.91\00:13:39.70
sequestered within the
Church community itself
00:13:39.71\00:13:41.87
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:41.88\00:13:44.80
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00:13:44.81\00:13:47.33
to help God's people
00:13:47.34\00:13:48.70
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00:13:48.71\00:13:52.49
while recognizing the dangers
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00:13:52.50\00:13:56.26
During the past century,
00:13:56.27\00:13:57.74
Liberty has experienced
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but it remains on the job.
00:14:00.29\00:14:02.45
Thanks to the
inspired leadership
00:14:02.46\00:14:04.18
of a long line of
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00:14:04.19\00:14:06.84
three of whom
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00:14:06.85\00:14:08.61
of the publications existence
00:14:08.62\00:14:10.11
and the foresight of a
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00:14:10.12\00:14:13.57
red years of struggle,
00:14:13.58\00:14:15.61
red years of victories,
00:14:15.62\00:14:17.91
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00:14:17.92\00:14:20.91
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:20.92\00:14:22.71
It's about people
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00:14:22.72\00:14:25.63
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00:14:25.64\00:14:28.54
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00:14:28.55\00:14:30.95
Thanks to the
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00:14:30.96\00:14:32.94
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00:14:32.95\00:14:35.33
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00:14:35.34\00:14:37.69
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00:14:37.70\00:14:39.51
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00:14:39.52\00:14:41.15
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00:14:41.16\00:14:45.01
and work in a world
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00:14:45.02\00:14:48.42
ordained bonds of
religious freedom.
00:14:48.43\00:14:51.62
Welcome back, before the break
00:15:01.85\00:15:04.16
those of you that were watching
before, welcome back if not.
00:15:04.17\00:15:07.06
Before the break I had
suggested I was going to read
00:15:07.07\00:15:09.01
a quotation that I think bears
on the test that some of these
00:15:09.02\00:15:12.11
public officials
are very publicly born,
00:15:12.12\00:15:14.91
but in reality
all of us have a test.
00:15:14.92\00:15:18.18
This is a quote from
a book by Ellen White,
00:15:18.19\00:15:22.17
who I mentioned
periodically in this program.
00:15:22.18\00:15:24.53
She informed a lot of
the religious liberty work
00:15:24.54\00:15:27.14
for the
Seventh-day Adventist church--
00:15:27.15\00:15:28.49
Absolutely yes. As you know.
00:15:28.50\00:15:30.40
And in this book on--
it's called the Testimonies,
00:15:30.41\00:15:34.11
she says this, and I think
00:15:34.12\00:15:36.37
speaking with a
prophetic insight.
00:15:36.38\00:15:39.12
But anyone could
say this but she says,
00:15:39.13\00:15:41.21
"the time is not far
distant," so then warning us
00:15:41.22\00:15:44.62
that we're in end of time.
00:15:44.63\00:15:46.47
"The time is not far
distant when the test will come
00:15:46.48\00:15:50.28
to every soul,"
and that sobers me.
00:15:50.29\00:15:53.55
I don't feel
particularly tested now,
00:15:53.56\00:15:56.31
now and then it
worked, things don't go right
00:15:56.32\00:15:58.73
we feel very
tested. But, you know,
00:15:58.74\00:16:00.13
in reality it's
easy to be a Christian
00:16:00.14\00:16:01.94
in North America and
Australia and England and--
00:16:01.95\00:16:04.84
Yes. And many other countries
00:16:04.85\00:16:06.64
not just western countries,
there are some very hard
00:16:06.65\00:16:08.92
but for most
Christians not too hard
00:16:08.93\00:16:11.27
and at least in
the developed world.
00:16:11.28\00:16:15.03
But she says,
"the test will come,
00:16:15.04\00:16:17.00
the mark of the beast
will be urged upon us."
00:16:17.01\00:16:19.94
I saw an evangelist on
3ABN, actually this morning,
00:16:19.95\00:16:23.13
and he was sort of
saying, don't worry
00:16:23.14\00:16:25.41
about the Mark of the Beast.
00:16:25.42\00:16:26.50
You know, let's just talk
00:16:26.51\00:16:27.56
about accepting
what Christ has done.
00:16:27.57\00:16:30.58
Well, he was very correct
but the Mark of the Beast
00:16:30.59\00:16:33.39
is something we need
to understand what it is.
00:16:33.40\00:16:35.28
And it is false, a mark
of false allegiance. Yes.
00:16:35.29\00:16:40.35
Certainly epitomized
by worshiping on the day
00:16:40.36\00:16:42.76
that God has not recommended
but it's more than that.
00:16:42.77\00:16:46.58
The end of time you
take the Mark of the Beast
00:16:46.59\00:16:48.50
by accepting the
authority of a false system
00:16:48.51\00:16:51.45
rather than the
authority of God. Right.
00:16:51.46\00:16:53.45
And she says,
"The Mark of the Beast
00:16:53.46\00:16:54.46
will be urged upon us."
00:16:54.47\00:16:56.03
And I like that because
not enforced at first. Yes.
00:16:56.04\00:16:58.12
Certainly be encouraged. Yes.
00:16:58.13\00:16:59.54
She says those
and this is here with,
00:16:59.55\00:17:01.37
this quite comes to the crunch,
00:17:01.38\00:17:03.54
"those who have step by
step yielded to worldly demands
00:17:03.55\00:17:09.76
and conform to worldly
customs will not find it
00:17:09.77\00:17:14.41
a hard matter to yield
to the powers that be."
00:17:14.42\00:17:17.83
And I think of
Billy Graham. Yeah.
00:17:17.84\00:17:19.36
It was step by step. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:19.37\00:17:20.91
That he made no grand decision
00:17:20.92\00:17:22.21
to be a
political operative. Yes.
00:17:22.22\00:17:24.52
She says, "Those who have"
00:17:24.53\00:17:25.53
and I'll repeat this
because it's a long sentence.
00:17:25.54\00:17:27.86
"Those who have step by
step yielded to worldly demands
00:17:27.87\00:17:31.06
and conformed to
worldly customs will not find it
00:17:31.07\00:17:34.23
a hard matter to yield
to the powers that be."
00:17:34.24\00:17:37.65
Yielding, that's a
fairly voluntary thing.
00:17:37.66\00:17:41.85
"Yielding to them rather
than subject themselves,"
00:17:41.86\00:17:46.69
and I like that,
this is an amazing quote
00:17:46.70\00:17:48.77
because she's got
it absolutely right.
00:17:48.78\00:17:50.75
Because you by
yielding if gone along with it.
00:17:50.76\00:17:56.77
But if you don't yield
you actually then consciously
00:17:56.78\00:18:00.60
knowingly have asked to get
the consequence of not yielding.
00:18:00.61\00:18:04.49
You bring it on
yourself in a certain sense.
00:18:04.50\00:18:06.38
You should rather than
subject themselves to derision.
00:18:06.39\00:18:13.29
Yes. That's the first thing
people may make fun of you. Yes.
00:18:13.30\00:18:17.10
Insult, that's when it becomes
more offensive to society.
00:18:17.11\00:18:21.29
Threatened imprisonment,
doesn't say imprisonment
00:18:21.30\00:18:24.19
but where this, the law starts
to move against you, and death.
00:18:24.20\00:18:29.22
Very seldom in these
great issues of conscience
00:18:29.23\00:18:33.47
of religious
freedom, there's right out
00:18:33.48\00:18:35.45
of the gate someone
say, now do this or else.
00:18:35.46\00:18:38.10
Of course. You know, you might
have the capital punishment.
00:18:38.11\00:18:40.50
Yes. No, no, no.
00:18:40.51\00:18:41.48
It creeps up in you and in
essence you start that process
00:18:41.49\00:18:44.91
by a conscious decision
to stand this way versus
00:18:44.92\00:18:49.47
the requirement to
act another way. Yes, yes.
00:18:49.48\00:18:52.48
This reminds me
exactly of the story of
00:18:52.49\00:18:55.69
Daniel and the
three Hebrew boys.
00:18:55.70\00:18:57.70
And sort of the test that they,
00:18:57.71\00:18:59.85
you know, sort of the
small test, that they had.
00:18:59.86\00:19:02.95
At first, you know,
where they're going to eat
00:19:02.96\00:19:05.18
the food that was, you
know, blessed by the idols.
00:19:05.19\00:19:07.79
Were they going to, you
know, live a certain lifestyle?
00:19:07.80\00:19:10.42
Were they going
to-- and did they yield.
00:19:10.43\00:19:11.79
You know, and if they had
yielded in those small tests,
00:19:11.80\00:19:15.32
I think the fiery
furnace would have been
00:19:15.33\00:19:17.32
a much different situation.
00:19:17.33\00:19:18.68
I think they would
have melt, you know,
00:19:18.69\00:19:20.71
to the statue
like everyone else.
00:19:20.72\00:19:24.18
And that little test
while it was a smaller matter
00:19:24.19\00:19:26.68
than the final one,
really by showing that
00:19:26.69\00:19:29.65
they could pass that one,
00:19:29.66\00:19:30.74
they set themselves
up for the big test. Yes.
00:19:30.75\00:19:32.95
They would likely
have failed the big test
00:19:32.96\00:19:35.26
if they hadn't
been careful on that.
00:19:35.27\00:19:36.73
Exactly, and I think
that's the case with all of us.
00:19:36.74\00:19:39.60
I think unfortunately
a lot of times, you know,
00:19:39.61\00:19:41.89
we Seventh-day
Adventists are--you know,
00:19:41.90\00:19:44.98
we're
strengthening ourselves for when
00:19:44.99\00:19:46.41
we're tested by the Sunday law.
00:19:46.42\00:19:48.24
Meanwhile we have
test on a day to day basis
00:19:48.25\00:19:50.43
that we fail miserably.
00:19:50.44\00:19:52.00
Absolutely and that's
sobering but we could change
00:19:52.01\00:19:55.73
and God could
strengthen us. Of course, yes.
00:19:55.74\00:19:57.48
So it's just because
someone is a total flop
00:19:57.49\00:19:59.37
on the little things. Yes.
00:19:59.38\00:20:00.64
They shouldn't
say well you know--
00:20:00.65\00:20:02.17
No, of course.
00:20:02.18\00:20:03.15
Because God can strengthen
us, but we need to I believe
00:20:03.16\00:20:06.29
ahead of time as it says here,
00:20:06.30\00:20:08.21
decide what
we'll do in the test,
00:20:08.22\00:20:10.50
instill ourselves
spiritually and mentally. Yes.
00:20:10.51\00:20:14.34
And proceed on.
I'm trying to think
00:20:14.35\00:20:15.32
of the text I think
it's in Ezekiel it says,
00:20:15.33\00:20:17.16
"You haven't, if
you haven't been able
00:20:17.17\00:20:19.20
to run with the, or
keep up with the crowd now,
00:20:19.21\00:20:21.92
how will you run with
the horseman?" Oh, yeah.
00:20:21.93\00:20:24.06
It's, you need to
think of the here and now
00:20:24.07\00:20:27.41
rather that
impossible test. Yes.
00:20:27.42\00:20:29.95
And I've grown
up most of my life,
00:20:29.96\00:20:31.67
well all of my life as
a Seventh-day Adventist
00:20:31.68\00:20:33.34
and most of it,
expecting a time of trouble
00:20:33.35\00:20:35.82
and a huge test in the
Mark of the Beast and so on,
00:20:35.83\00:20:38.21
which I think is
demonstrably way closer
00:20:38.22\00:20:41.87
and perhaps even imminent.
00:20:41.88\00:20:43.80
But still, it's
the here and now.
00:20:43.81\00:20:45.99
That, that's such a
huge thing way ahead of us,
00:20:46.00\00:20:51.33
but here and now
there are real challenges.
00:20:51.34\00:20:53.24
Right, right well
it's also and, you know,
00:20:53.25\00:20:54.98
you think of the train up a
child in the ways that were,
00:20:54.99\00:20:57.36
you know, he--And I
think that's the case if this,
00:20:57.37\00:20:59.81
you know, we're
immature in our faith
00:20:59.82\00:21:01.75
I think a lot of times
and we continue to grow
00:21:01.76\00:21:05.53
in a certain or
develop in a certain manner.
00:21:05.54\00:21:07.90
And so I think
those, you know, those,
00:21:07.91\00:21:09.89
the faithfulness is
important at these times.
00:21:09.90\00:21:12.07
Now, the example I've used
on this program and sermons
00:21:12.08\00:21:15.60
and I've heard others
Jews, is that, you know,
00:21:15.61\00:21:17.83
you can become conditioned
to a situation unless you have--
00:21:17.84\00:21:21.47
well, back to Daniel.
00:21:21.48\00:21:22.72
It says, Daniel determined in
his heart to hold this position.
00:21:22.73\00:21:26.65
And unless you got that statue,
00:21:26.66\00:21:28.57
you won't recognize the
test as it comes upon you.
00:21:28.58\00:21:31.27
You know the
example that I'm referring
00:21:31.28\00:21:32.79
is often given
as a frog, you know,
00:21:32.80\00:21:34.63
in the slowly
boiling water. Yes, yes.
00:21:34.64\00:21:37.24
Gonna see it
until, it's so innovating
00:21:37.25\00:21:39.35
that it just goes
flaccid and he's cooked. Yes.
00:21:39.36\00:21:41.99
This thing's now that we should
know that really qualifies--
00:21:44.52\00:21:48.50
I think it was the title
of Winston Churchill's book,
00:21:48.51\00:21:50.52
A Gathering Storm.
00:21:50.53\00:21:52.73
The storm is gathering,
the test hasn't yet come
00:21:52.74\00:21:55.97
but we should be fore
warned and wise to see
00:21:55.98\00:21:58.82
that what's coming instill
ourselves, not to compromise.
00:21:58.83\00:22:03.07
And you and I and
others in our circuit dealing
00:22:03.08\00:22:06.66
with religious liberty, I
hope that we got it straight
00:22:06.67\00:22:09.23
that when we're
making government contacts,
00:22:09.24\00:22:11.58
it's not even to make friends
00:22:11.59\00:22:14.16
and it's certainly not to
make us look good in their eyes.
00:22:14.17\00:22:18.30
And I know one
colleague, good guy,
00:22:18.31\00:22:21.62
but I think he
insinuated himself into the
00:22:21.63\00:22:26.93
political structure and became
00:22:26.94\00:22:28.31
the partisan
operative at one part.
00:22:28.32\00:22:31.08
Great for his personal
career, but as he basically left
00:22:31.09\00:22:35.36
his calling to
represent truths to power.
00:22:35.37\00:22:39.05
That's what we're doing.
00:22:39.06\00:22:40.30
And we need to keep
a real focus on that
00:22:40.31\00:22:42.89
because otherwise we
may find these quiet friends
00:22:42.90\00:22:45.28
that we found
there, they're bringing
00:22:45.29\00:22:47.17
pressure on us to come
inline with the new law.
00:22:47.18\00:22:51.57
They might try to
co-opt us to along with
00:22:51.58\00:22:53.72
some group opinion
that's compromising.
00:22:53.73\00:22:56.15
And we need to be
careful but the viewer too,
00:22:56.16\00:22:58.59
somebody who has a
concern for religious liberty
00:22:58.60\00:23:01.45
they need to watch this program,
00:23:01.46\00:23:04.15
read God's word, know what
the issues are and act on them.
00:23:04.16\00:23:08.55
Like if separation of church and
state is important you cry fowl
00:23:08.56\00:23:13.18
when you see it being muddied,
particularly by your own group.
00:23:13.19\00:23:16.78
Yes, yes, yeah I think it's
interesting, you see, you know,
00:23:16.79\00:23:21.70
just in the quote that you were
reading there from Testimonies.
00:23:21.71\00:23:25.47
You see
politicians, the--you know,
00:23:25.48\00:23:28.95
when they are
involved in some sort,
00:23:28.96\00:23:30.70
they sort to get
their hands, you know,
00:23:30.71\00:23:32.00
hands caught in the
cookie jar sort of situation.
00:23:32.01\00:23:34.24
And it's so obvious, I mean,
00:23:34.25\00:23:35.90
just the evidence
is mounted, mounted,
00:23:35.91\00:23:37.87
mounted that these
people are up to no good,
00:23:37.88\00:23:39.75
they've done something
wrong and yet they continue to
00:23:39.76\00:23:42.17
deny, deny, deny.
00:23:42.18\00:23:43.33
And I wonder, you
know, that even just,
00:23:43.34\00:23:45.85
you know, as you were showing
00:23:45.86\00:23:46.83
the progression of
things that happen.
00:23:46.84\00:23:48.71
But I think that public
derision or the embarrassment
00:23:48.72\00:23:51.26
is just of strong-motivator
to begin with, it just.
00:23:51.27\00:23:54.27
Many people it's almost
worse than the imprisonment of--
00:23:54.28\00:23:56.44
Yes, yes, it's
their whole, you know,
00:23:56.45\00:23:58.53
their public persona
and they will argue to that,
00:23:58.54\00:24:01.73
they will compromise so
much in order to save ways.
00:24:01.74\00:24:03.89
I want to name the name
but it's sort of obvious
00:24:03.90\00:24:06.10
but there's a
certain public official
00:24:06.11\00:24:07.61
wanting to run for president,
that clearly by previous
00:24:07.62\00:24:11.32
and continuing
statements has religious agenda
00:24:11.33\00:24:15.26
based on their identification.
00:24:15.27\00:24:17.99
But as a political expediency
00:24:18.00\00:24:19.60
they actually resign
their church. Yes, yes.
00:24:19.61\00:24:23.09
And I think,
man, I might not agree
00:24:23.10\00:24:25.82
with that church
stands for, but at least have
00:24:25.83\00:24:28.96
the conviction of your,
your identification there.
00:24:28.97\00:24:33.94
But to turn it all over because
without that you can make--
00:24:33.95\00:24:37.17
Way better
politically, it's not good.
00:24:37.18\00:24:40.03
I'm going, you know,
00:24:40.04\00:24:41.15
you know there's something
wrong if you're measuring
00:24:41.16\00:24:43.31
your faith or
basing your faith based on,
00:24:43.32\00:24:45.39
you know, what the polls say,
00:24:45.40\00:24:47.77
you know, is this make
sense for me politically.
00:24:47.78\00:24:50.12
So, so you know, this
test, this matter of a test,
00:24:50.13\00:24:53.67
I could get a--reach back
into Adventist eschatology
00:24:53.68\00:24:57.49
in the sense of a coming crisis.
00:24:57.50\00:24:59.75
But really, every
Christian need to think
00:24:59.76\00:25:02.82
about a test to their
principles and indeed everyone
00:25:02.83\00:25:07.19
even if they're not a Christian,
00:25:07.20\00:25:08.17
even if they're not
religious, they have to have
00:25:08.18\00:25:11.33
a guiding
principle in their life,
00:25:11.34\00:25:13.29
you can't stand for nothing.
00:25:13.30\00:25:15.26
And you know, I'll say something
00:25:15.27\00:25:17.65
almost theoretical,
I've no time for Al Qaeda
00:25:17.66\00:25:21.01
and those type of operatives
but on a certain level
00:25:21.02\00:25:24.52
I have to respect he's someone
that believes in something
00:25:24.53\00:25:27.61
so fervently that
they'll carry it through.
00:25:27.62\00:25:30.54
Misguided. Right.
00:25:30.55\00:25:31.68
But that's the
tragedy in their case.
00:25:31.69\00:25:33.19
Sure. But. And at the
detriment of someone else.
00:25:33.20\00:25:35.93
Right, I mean,
it's not defensible
00:25:35.94\00:25:38.58
but really we have to
decide in life and faith
00:25:38.59\00:25:41.67
brings it to the
most sharpest contrast.
00:25:41.68\00:25:44.73
If we believe
in something surely
00:25:44.74\00:25:47.00
it's worth falling through with,
00:25:47.01\00:25:48.50
it's worth living for
and maybe in some cases
00:25:48.51\00:25:51.37
at the end of the
day worth dying for,
00:25:51.38\00:25:52.96
not you know as
a suicide. Right.
00:25:52.97\00:25:57.61
But to put your
life on as it says
00:25:57.62\00:25:59.70
in Christian context
that altar of sacrifice.
00:25:59.71\00:26:01.98
Right, right. I
think what you're
00:26:01.99\00:26:03.73
describing is what the
church that we see in Laodicia
00:26:03.74\00:26:06.70
in Revelation and I
really would urge our viewers
00:26:06.71\00:26:11.16
to take a moment to pray for us,
00:26:11.17\00:26:14.08
to pray for each other
and to pray for ourselves.
00:26:14.09\00:26:16.60
Because this is
really is a testing time,
00:26:16.61\00:26:18.79
we all will have
this time in our lives,
00:26:18.80\00:26:21.03
where we will
be tested our faith
00:26:21.04\00:26:22.62
and our allegiance
to God will be tested.
00:26:22.63\00:26:26.83
And, you know,
through prayer and Bible study
00:26:26.84\00:26:30.19
is really how we're
going to be able to maintain
00:26:30.20\00:26:33.93
our allegiance and our
faith and our trust in God.
00:26:33.94\00:26:36.62
And so I really
encourage all of us
00:26:36.63\00:26:39.08
to spend some time
affirming one and other.
00:26:39.09\00:26:45.09
There was a time
when the Kings of Israel
00:26:45.10\00:26:48.25
and Judah decided to go to war.
00:26:48.26\00:26:50.52
You could read
about it in the Bible
00:26:50.53\00:26:52.32
and it's very interesting
that as the moment approached
00:26:52.33\00:26:55.51
one of the them said let's,
let's inquire about a prophet,
00:26:55.52\00:26:58.65
prophet of the Lord.
00:26:58.66\00:27:00.53
And other King said,
well there is such a prophet,
00:27:00.54\00:27:03.02
but I don't like Him, because
he doesn't speak well of me.
00:27:03.03\00:27:07.51
And they got that
prophet and as expected
00:27:07.52\00:27:09.65
He didn't say what
they wanted to hear.
00:27:09.66\00:27:11.98
You know, there's no question
00:27:11.99\00:27:13.80
that today is no
different than then,
00:27:13.81\00:27:16.29
that even religious figures
brought into context of--
00:27:16.30\00:27:20.29
into the context of politics
are under great pressure
00:27:20.30\00:27:23.73
to say the right
thing rather than
00:27:23.74\00:27:25.94
to speak in spiritual reality.
00:27:25.95\00:27:28.50
We've discussed in
this program how even
00:27:28.51\00:27:30.69
as iconic figure is Billy
Graham in retrospect realizes
00:27:30.70\00:27:34.29
that he crossed that line.
00:27:34.30\00:27:37.31
I look back into
the Old Testament
00:27:37.32\00:27:39.26
of the Bible and
read there about Daniel
00:27:39.27\00:27:42.23
and the quotes
of Nebuchadnezzar,
00:27:42.24\00:27:45.17
Darius the Mede,
and then Belshazzar.
00:27:45.18\00:27:48.54
Somehow he was able to
maintain his integrity,
00:27:48.55\00:27:52.34
serve the Lord that
he honored at the expense
00:27:52.35\00:27:56.24
even of his life, when
he was thrown to the lions,
00:27:56.25\00:27:58.59
and keep such an integrity
that a moment of great crisis
00:27:58.60\00:28:01.76
he could be
called upon to advise
00:28:01.77\00:28:04.05
a King about to be deposed.
00:28:04.06\00:28:06.99
This is Lincoln
Steed, for Liberty Insider.
00:28:07.00\00:28:10.21