Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Melissa Reid
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000145
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00:22 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:24 This is the program that brings you up-to-date 00:26 news, views and discussion on religious freedom issues 00:30 in the United States and around the world. 00:32 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:36 And my guest on the program is 00:38 Melissa Reid, Associate Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:40 Yes, it's pleasure to be here with you today-- 00:43 So we often know what the others 00:45 working on and thinking, 00:46 but for the benefit of our viewers 00:48 I'm gonna point you toward a topic 00:50 for this program. Okay. 00:52 Not too long ago, 00:53 there was a very special program held by 00:55 the International Religious Liberty Association. 00:57 Yeah. In Sydney, Australia. 00:59 Yes. You were there, I was there. 01:01 There were about 20, 25 other people. 01:04 It was the meeting of experts 01:06 organized by the IRLA. Right, right. 01:08 It was such an opportunity for me to be able to attend. 01:11 I was appreciative of that. 01:13 It made me feel like I wanted to go back to school 01:16 to be involved in that sort of-- 01:17 It was held at the Law Building at the University of Sydney. 01:21 Right, right. 01:23 So it did have a school environment, didn't it-- 01:25 Yes, yes, and papers were presented 01:28 and anything like that so it was, I really enjoyed it. 01:32 I remember when I first started working with Liberty Magazine. 01:36 I think it's been about eight years ago now. 01:38 We had an event down in Richmond, 01:40 which was similar as far as papers being presented 01:42 and whatever and that was to me 01:44 just a really great crash course 01:47 into the issues of religious freedom, 01:50 it reminded me of that again. 01:52 Well, you know, I have to say something, 01:54 you know, I look at the camera 01:55 and I see a young guy, even see hair on. 01:58 But it was a little off putting together 02:01 University of Sydney and to walk there in the quadrangle, 02:05 in front of the building and I would think 02:07 who are all these preteens. Yes. 02:10 Well if makes you feeling like that, 02:11 I thought the same thing. Yes. 02:13 I commented to other people and they reminded me 02:15 'cause, like you said we were on the law school campus, 02:17 but they reminded me and as Australia, 02:19 you probably can affirm this, 02:21 that you actually don't do undergraduate, 02:23 and then do law school, you go straight to law school, 02:26 so they actually were a little bit younger than-- 02:28 Well, they weren't all law students there, 02:29 the law university students-- Yes, yes-- 02:31 And, you know, together with the airline pilots 02:34 and the bus drivers and so on, 02:35 they've got inordinately young of life. Yes, yes-- 02:38 But it was good to be in that environment 02:40 to sort of latch on to the energy, university campus. 02:45 And yes as an Australian, that's where I grow up, 02:48 live there till I 16 and then work there a little later, 02:51 it was good together back 02:52 and sort of re-culturated again. Right. 02:57 To make up a word. Right. 02:59 But I think it was a good choice and been another others, 03:03 in fact the last meeting of experts was in Jordan, 03:07 as I remember, so Dr. John Grats 03:09 organizing the IRLA is held these very diverse places. 03:14 Yes, yes. 03:15 And he always has various themes. 03:17 And so what was theme with this one? 03:18 Right, right, well, it was the threat of secularism 03:22 on religious freedom. 03:23 And the effect and it was really interesting 03:26 as you mentioned there was about 25 presenters 03:28 and I think they represented like 12 different countries. 03:31 And it was really interesting to hear 03:34 sort of the effect of secularism on, 03:37 you know, religious freedom within various, 03:40 and varied regions or continents even. 03:45 And there was a certain irony, 03:46 I presented something really wasn't secularism, 03:51 per se, it was security in the United States, 03:57 post 9/11. Yes. 03:58 And I know that very well, 04:00 but there was a certain irony of Australia, 04:01 in Australia talking about American situation. 04:06 But secularism sort of probably in a way, 04:09 what was your take on this discussion? 04:11 Is there a real threat from secularism? 04:13 Well, I thought that it was interesting 04:16 and may be a little sad, 04:18 that the majority of the conversation 04:20 dealt with Islam and Secularism. 04:23 And I think that's because 04:25 Islam is a sort of the vibrant religion 04:28 as far as growth right now. 04:29 At least in Europe, and we talked a bit about it 04:34 as far as Australia, but it didn't seem like 04:38 it was so much threat Christianity 04:39 because unfortunately Christianity doesn't seem 04:41 to have the growth. 04:42 Well, I still from another program 04:44 where I want to about to talk about this. 04:46 One day, well, I was in Australia, 04:49 I went to one of the beach resorts 04:51 and I struck up a conversation 04:52 with a Coptic Egyptian woman, obviously from Egypt. 04:58 And we talked about Islam and Coptic Christians 05:01 the old Christian community in Egypt. 05:05 Now any about 20% of the population, 05:07 but they used to be the majority 05:08 before Islam. Right. 05:10 And they have great antagonisms with Islam 05:13 and she made an interesting comment. 05:15 She told me what you noticed that 05:17 Islam is growing relatively, rapidly in Australia, 05:21 I mean, it's still 05:22 an extremely small minority of the population. Right, right 05:25 But in years slightly proceeding 9/11 05:28 to the present has been an explosion of the numbers. 05:32 And I said, you know, 05:33 what's the appeal of Islam to, 05:38 for want of a better word, indigenous or at least not, 05:40 they're not really indigenous, 05:42 but the Australians. Sure. 05:44 Which are mostly English 05:46 if not European background. Right. 05:49 And she said, well, she said, 05:50 "Here religion is being destroyed, 05:52 these people have no real religious point 05:55 of reference anymore, 05:56 it's just a secular society." Yes. 05:58 And she says, "they're very vulnerable 06:02 to any new religion coming along." 06:05 And that, so they don't have, which is good on a level, 06:07 they don't have prejudice. Yes. 06:09 But they don't have knowledge to judge it correctly, 06:11 so they're believing into it rapidly. Yeah. 06:14 You know, we're dancing on the knife edge 06:16 here on this program. 06:17 We're not opposed to Islam. Right. 06:19 Now more than the United States government 06:23 exemplified recently by President Obama says, 06:26 "America is not a war with Islam, 06:27 we're at war with no religion." Right. 06:30 But there's no question 06:32 that when we talk about religious liberty, 06:34 there's an inordinate amount 06:35 at the moment of Islamic countries 06:37 and Islamic societies 06:38 that are acting in very prejudicial, 06:41 even violent ways toward non-believers. Right. 06:44 And that shouldn't be allowed, 06:46 I'm not gonna give them a pass on that. 06:47 Right. I think that's wrong. 06:49 No, no, no I guess it was interesting to me 06:52 or disappointing to me, because as a Christian, 06:55 I really believe that, you know, my faith, 06:58 my beliefs are-- Of course. 07:00 Are correct-- And we grant that to Muslims 07:02 and Buddhists and so on. 07:04 Everybody has to be, in fact what's the statement, 07:07 persuaded in their own mind. Yes, yes. 07:10 And we're called as followers of Christ 07:13 to share those beliefs with others. Absolutely. 07:14 So I, it's just a bit discourage-- 07:16 And it's problematic in a normally Christian culture 07:19 to see people living in large numbers 07:22 to anything else. 07:24 Certainly in a Muslim society, 07:25 they get ballistic when they see 07:26 people moving away. Right. 07:28 So what explains it, and this, I think 07:30 that was as good an explanation as any. 07:31 So in a certain way, 07:33 secularism is the culprit there. Yeah, yeah. 07:36 Secularism is denatured there, 07:38 sensibility to really critically evaluate. 07:43 Right. As they once did. 07:44 Well, and as visiting Australia 07:46 as an American, it was also interesting, 07:49 I mean, our nation, you know, whether or not 07:52 we were founded as a Christian nation. 07:53 We were certainly founded by Christians 07:56 and we have a very Protestant sort of, 07:58 you know, jumping off point as far as our, 08:00 you know, our laws and our, 08:02 you know, dominant religion and things like that. 08:04 Where as Australia, you very much in that society, 08:09 it seems like, you're making room for religion, 08:12 you know, it's the exception rather than the rule. 08:15 And so I certainly saw that, 08:18 one of the very interesting presentations 08:21 that we saw was the Attorney General, Greg Smith 08:23 from New South Wales came 08:24 and gave a very interesting sort of history lesson. 08:28 And he is a person of some open faith, I mean. Yes. 08:32 He was not neutral on this, 08:33 but he gave a good historical explanation-- 08:35 Yeah, yeah, and I just really felt like 08:37 that was so interesting, it was such a contrast 08:38 to United States as far as, you know, really, 08:43 you know, that secular emphasis and-- 08:47 Well, you know-- Dominance. 08:48 I'll come to the defense, 08:49 not that you're attacking Australia, 08:50 but you can come across to Australia 08:52 as not got the right attitude toward religion 08:56 or could be a suspect attitude. 08:58 He did say, or I think he said, 09:00 but, I know, it was said during the conference 09:02 pointed out the Australian constitution 09:05 has the guarantee of religious freedom 09:07 and separation of state and those clauses 09:10 in that constitution were directly lifted 09:12 from the United States constitution. Okay, yes, yes. 09:15 And there's also an interesting history 09:17 that I can't give fine details of at the moment, 09:20 but I know that when that was being formulated, 09:23 it was Seventh-Day Adventist, who helped push that home. 09:28 Because Adventists in the United States 09:30 had already battled that through 09:32 and were comfortable with the first amendment 09:35 guarantee of separation of church and state-- 09:37 Yes, no and I felt like, 09:39 you know, the Australian constitution 09:41 absolutely provides religious freedom 09:45 for its citizens, but I just thought 09:46 it was an interesting sort of the perspective was different 09:49 as far as where they were coming from rather-- 09:51 The perspective is mostly sociologically by view, 09:55 the society has turned against religion 09:58 as default setting. Yes, yes. 10:02 They don't persecute religion 10:04 in any form or affect-- Right. 10:05 In some ways I think they are more legal supports 10:09 for religious institutions and practices in the US. 10:14 But the society thinks religion 10:17 should be kept in its place, you know, it's fine, 10:19 you expect it to a certain level, 10:21 but I don't need it. Right, right. 10:22 And our society will go ahead 10:24 just fine with that. Right. 10:25 So there's almost, it's not an indifference, 10:27 it's almost an antagonism 10:29 to an intrusion of faith in the society. 10:32 Yes, that's exactly what I noticed. 10:34 And then we have presenters from, from Europe, 10:38 a couple from Europe, I mean, 10:40 from Spain and one from France. 10:43 And I always find that so interesting 10:45 for readers of Liberty Magazine, 10:47 we know that we've covered several situations 10:51 and laws with Europe, and going back to the Muslims 10:56 and the headscarf situation, the minarets in Switzerland 11:01 and really seeing religious freedom diminished, 11:05 I think would be a fair word to use. 11:07 Now even as you're recounting what we heard there, 11:10 I certainly realize that 11:12 secularism probably wasn't the right way 11:14 to express that discussion. 11:16 Because, I know, they've mentioned again in France, 11:18 they have the concept of laicite. 11:23 But that's not really the same as secularism, 11:26 it's more religion in its place and a society, 11:30 that functions without the, 11:33 they get a little bit like Australia, 11:34 the intrusion of religion. 11:35 But that is not the same as secularism, 11:38 because what I see in secularism 11:40 is its problematic form 11:42 from a point of religious practice. 11:44 It's something a modern analogy 11:46 to the French Revolution, where they exalted 11:48 the God of reason and cast down religion. 11:52 What I think the secularism, that Australia exemplifies 11:57 that they should have been talking about 11:58 was really an indifference to faith. Yes. 12:02 And that is problematic, it's not an eminent danger 12:06 because it's not persecution, you know, it's not even 12:09 a legal exclusion necessarily, 12:12 but it's the worse thing, 12:14 which we should actually sometimes exemplify 12:17 when there's an argument. 12:18 You know, it takes two to argue, 12:19 the fight stops instantly if one just won't participate 12:22 and that's what frustrates religionists. Yes. 12:24 The secular, the secularist, 12:27 the secular society more and more 12:28 is indifferent to religion. 12:30 So, in that regard it's a threat, 12:33 but it is not an antagonist toward religion like, 12:38 competing religions or prejudiced attitudes 12:41 can be in a religious community. 12:43 They're not persecuting another. 12:45 Right, right, right. 12:47 We'll be back right after a break, 12:49 to continue this discussion of secularism 12:51 and the meeting of experts in Australia. 13:02 One-hundred years, a long time to do anything 13:06 much less publish a magazine, 13:08 but this year Liberty, the Seventh-Day Adventist 13:11 voice of religious freedom, celebrates one hundred years 13:15 of doing what it does best, collecting, analyzing, 13:18 and reporting the ebb and flow 13:20 of religious expression around the world. 13:23 Issue after issue. 13:25 Liberty has taken on the tough assignments, 13:27 tracking down threats to religious freedom 13:29 and exposing the work of the devil 13:31 in every corner of the globe. 13:33 Governmental interference, personal attacks, 13:36 corporate assaults, even religious freedom issues 13:38 sequestered within the church community 13:40 itself have been clearly and honestly exposed. 13:44 Liberty exists for one purpose, 13:46 to help God's people maintain that 13:48 all the important separation of Church and State, 13:51 while recognizing the dangers inherent in such a struggle. 13:55 During the past century, 13:56 Liberty has experienced challenges of its own, 13:59 but it remains on the job. 14:01 Thanks to the inspired leadership 14:03 of a long line of dedicated Adventist editors, 14:05 three of whom represent 14:07 almost half of the publications' existence 14:09 and the foresight of a little woman from New England. 14:12 One hundred years of struggle, 14:14 one hundred years of victories, 14:17 religious freedom isn't just about political machines 14:20 and cultural prejudices. 14:21 It's about people, fighting for the right 14:24 to serve the God they love as their hearts 14:27 and the Holy Spirit dictate. 14:30 Thanks to the prayers and generous support 14:32 of Seventh-Day Adventists everywhere. 14:34 Liberty will continue to accomplish its work 14:36 of providing timely information, 14:38 spirit filled inspiration, 14:40 and heaven sent encouragement to all 14:42 who long to live and work in a world 14:45 bound together by the God 14:47 ordained bonds of religious freedom. 15:00 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider, 15:02 before the break, I'm with guest Melisa Reid. 15:06 We were remembering some of the events 15:08 and presentations in Sydney, Australia 15:11 at the Sydney University Law School at the IRLA, 15:16 Meeting of Experts, which was convened 15:18 under the general topic of secularism 15:21 as a threat to religious freedom. Right. 15:23 Now even during the break, I was telling, 15:25 I don't see secularism as the threat. 15:28 It is clearly a negative dynamic, 15:31 when you talk about religious expression because 15:33 it sort of freezes out religious initiative. 15:36 Right. It's largely indifferent. 15:39 I don't see other than radical communism 15:42 that secularism is usually aggressively opposed. 15:46 Well, that was actually one of the, 15:47 one of the presenters, his paper was, 15:49 you know, is secularism a neutral force. 15:52 And-- And what did you think the conclusion? 15:54 I felt like his conclusion was that no it isn't. 15:58 And I think I agree with that. 15:59 I think he convinced me of that with his paper. 16:02 I think-- Which person was this? 16:04 This was the gentleman from, from New Zealand, 16:07 the law professor from New Zealand. 16:11 I was the one in charge of taking notes 16:12 for that presentation so I remember it most specifically-- 16:14 Yeah, we have to, remember 16:15 I said to summarize that. Yes. 16:17 I summarize one and I, 16:18 I say this is a melange of ideas. 16:22 So I won't even try to come up with-- Yeah, yeah. 16:24 But that's true, secularism is not good, 16:29 but both from religious freedom point of view 16:31 and just a point of view of the dynamic of any faith. 16:34 Secularism is nominalism, 16:36 it's indifferent to the reality of faith. Right. 16:40 But I'm still not so convinced, 16:42 for example in the Untied States, 16:45 many politically activist, 16:47 conservative religious people are trying to say 16:50 that secularism mimics the models of faith 16:53 and it should be listed as a religion. Yeah. 16:56 What they're trying to do, if you really analyze it, 16:59 is even though they don't believe 17:01 in the separation of church and state. 17:03 Which is, we're often talking about 17:06 in Liberty Magazine and on this program. 17:08 They have misguidedly seen 17:11 the separation of church and state 17:12 as restricting their expression of religion 17:15 and a normally Christian Country. 17:17 So they argue against the separation 17:18 of church and state, but in dealing with secularism, 17:21 which they don't like and I understand that, 17:23 I don't care for secularism myself. 17:26 They want to define that it is a religion 17:28 so under the model of separation 17:30 of church and state, they can exclude secularism 17:33 from a civil path. Yeah. 17:36 That's what they're trying to do. Right. 17:38 And I think it's wrong on two count. 17:41 They're mixed up on the separation of church and state 17:43 and just because, I know, what's that saying, 17:47 if it quacks like a duck, 17:48 and waddles like a duck, it is a duck. 17:50 But I think, this regard that's just a syllogism 17:53 because you're not talking about 17:54 the same sort of thing. Right, right. 17:56 You're not talking about a religion, 17:58 even if it's modeling it because religion, 18:01 if you really chase it to ground, 18:03 I think is an expression of the God shape 18:07 void in human beings 18:08 and there's a patterns of behavior and, 18:10 and group thing and, 18:12 and organizing groups of fellow thinkers and so on. 18:16 That's how a church develops. Right. 18:19 Well, when they're doing any shared comment 18:23 and they all mimic some of the same patterns, 18:25 but it's not a religion, 18:27 secularism is not a religion-- Right. 18:31 Like Madlyn O'Hair, the, the infamous agnostic 18:37 or atheist, she was one variety, 18:41 but I'm sure you would not find most secularists 18:43 willing to sign up under that banner 18:45 so they're not all the same thing. Right. 18:47 No, no, no it's not a monolithic-- 18:48 Oh! Yes and I there is you know, 18:49 we know there is a difference between 18:50 a secularist and an atheist as well-- Absolutely. 18:54 But I absolutely agree with you, 18:55 that it is not the greatest threat to religionist, 18:59 at least, well, specifically 19:01 I always have a North American mindset, 19:03 it's certainly not within the United States. 19:06 And we've talked before about actually even you know, 19:11 as you say nominal Christians 19:12 or Christians that don't understand, 19:17 or who want to legislate their beliefs 19:20 or enforce their beliefs through, 19:22 through legislation, or through the government 19:26 I feel like that is a much greater threat. Absolutely. 19:29 On our, you know, freedom of religion-- 19:31 And I base a lot of my, not opinions 19:34 but my underline awareness of this both 19:38 on what the Bible says, prophecy is very plain, 19:40 it's not secularism that comes is the great enemy 19:44 it's a false form of worship, 19:46 it's usurping the authority of God 19:48 under the guise of religion. 19:51 And then historically I looked through 19:53 most of the persecution through the ages and yes, 19:57 I can allow communism you know, secular state, 20:01 Nazism, those were overtly secular states 20:05 and they did persecute some Christians not all of them, 20:08 you know, Nazi's have an alliance 20:10 with the major Christian groups, 20:12 so people forget that. 20:13 Yeah, I don't know how much they forget it, 20:15 they choose to ignore it. 20:17 Well, I think a lot of people didn't know it 20:18 to start with. Yeah, yeah. 20:19 Not so much forget, 20:20 but culpably we've forgotten. Yes. 20:22 But most individuals have not been aware of it. Right. 20:26 So there are some exceptions, 20:27 but generally when you look through history, 20:29 the great persecution the religions wars 20:32 were between religions. Of course. 20:33 You know, the crusades that. Yes. 20:35 That lies somewhat at the root of the antagonism 20:38 of the Islamic world. Yeah. 20:39 I've never forgotten that. Yeah. 20:41 That was a purely religious war between Islam 20:44 and the Christian West. 20:47 Yeah, liberties had some great series, on-- 20:50 Yes, I think they've been very good, 20:51 we've got good feedback on those. 20:53 Yes, so for those of who watching at home 20:56 if you haven't seen, 20:57 or if you haven't read those series, 20:58 go to our web site which is libertymagazine.org. 21:01 And I think the most recent one 21:02 we had was Christianity and persecution. 21:04 The persecutory impulse. 21:07 Impulse yeah, and then we had 21:08 several on the English reformation 21:10 and things like that. 21:12 So David Trim is an author 21:14 and he's been guest on here before too, 21:16 he's a historian and an archivist. 21:17 And I would really encourage you 21:20 readers to-- our viewers to go 21:22 and check this series out if you haven't-- 21:24 He was a great discovery of liberty some years ago 21:27 and I've hunted for few others 21:30 but I have a burden to tell the history 21:33 of not just Protestantism but religion through the years 21:36 and then in particular 21:38 the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 21:39 how we've come at our view points on religions liberty. 21:43 You know, history doesn't tell you everything, 21:44 but it tells you most that you need to know 21:46 in looking to the future. Oh! Sure, yeah. 21:49 Now, so I absolutely enjoy the discussion or-- 21:54 I was very trustable in Australia. 21:56 In Australia, yeah, 21:58 just really interesting perspectives, 22:00 like I said, it made me 22:02 you know, when you give a little taste, 22:05 first of all of a world view or you know, a world dynamic 22:12 I was just talking to someone the other day 22:13 and talking about how watching 22:15 even just the nightly news in the United States 22:17 is completely different than watching it 22:19 anywhere else in the world, just the slant that you know, 22:21 that's given or whatever and someone occur-- 22:23 So did you watch the news in Australia? 22:25 Well someone, someone encouraged me 22:26 to watch Al Shazeera or whatever the-- Al Jazeera. 22:30 Yes, and which I don't, I don't have a television so, 22:34 I get the news from radio or the Internet. 22:37 But anyway just absolutely you know, hearing the world 22:40 perspective of how secularism is 22:43 influencing the other societies, 22:45 which is absolutely fascinating to me. 22:47 And I really appreciated it. 22:48 I felt like Sydney law school was 22:50 just such a consummate host for us 22:53 and really made us feel welcome-- 22:54 No, they were very, very hospitable 22:56 and you mentioned the Attorney General 22:58 because part of the university, 22:59 the part of the state government. Yes. 23:03 But, but was it the second day of the, 23:06 the three day event. 23:07 We had a reception hosted by the vice-chancellor 23:10 effectively the CEO of the university. 23:12 Yes, yes, yes. 23:13 And that was very much appreciated-- 23:16 Yeah, they made us feel very much as, as if you know, 23:19 we were an important group to be there 23:21 and so that was very kind of them. 23:23 Which we were. 23:26 Well, we certainly are important in our minds, 23:28 but and it's funny because you know, 23:29 every time I tell people about the event 23:30 it's called the meeting of experts. 23:32 So it makes you feel like just kind of a jerk 23:34 saying that that's what you were at. 23:35 But anyway one thing 23:38 I didn't want to a mention too was this, 23:39 this meeting or this topic 23:41 is also a jumping off point for an event 23:44 that the International Religious Liberty Association 23:47 is holding in the Dominican Republic, 23:50 if you want to get-- No, it's not 23:52 so this is January, isn't it? 23:55 It's in-- I thought, anyhow next year. Yes. 23:58 And we will bring more news on other programs, 24:02 early next year the 24:03 International Religious Liberty Association 24:05 which the North American Religious Liberty Association 24:09 that you take a lead, are all about, 24:10 and I'm Vice-President of it 24:12 and that's integrated into all that we do with liberty. 24:15 But the NRLA, IRLA. IRLA. 24:22 The IRLA, no the National Religious Liberty Association. 24:25 So there is NRLA-- 24:26 There is a subsidiary of the IRLA. Correct, yes. 24:29 Which on an international forum 24:32 is organizing in Punta Cana, 24:34 Dominican Republic for next year. Yes. 24:37 A major seminar not, you know, 20-25 people 24:42 I think they're aiming for about a thousand people. 24:44 Yes, it's a conferences actually the world congress 24:46 which they hold every five years. 24:48 And I would really encourage you, 24:50 we've been promoting it in Liberty Magazine 24:52 for those that are interested in attending. 24:54 Again, this is not an academic conference 24:55 it's more open to you know, those interested, 24:58 you know, us lay people 25:00 that are interested in religious freedom. 25:01 Well, it's a combination, somethings are more teaching, 25:04 others are bringing information, 25:06 others are sharing what they're doing 25:07 in different parts of the world so, 25:09 all in all if anyone that has the slightest interest 25:12 in religious liberty there will be something for them-- 25:14 Right, right. At this conference. 25:15 So go to their website-- 25:16 And anyone that likes to swim on the side. 25:19 Yeah, the beautiful location doesn't hurt, I don't think. 25:21 And also I think it's, from what I understand, 25:23 I haven't look it up, but I think airfare is actually 25:25 pretty inexpensive and, 25:27 I think the conference registration fee 25:29 is not very expensive either but www-- 25:31 You don't wanna sell this on low cost, 25:33 because if someone believes in something, 25:36 any reasonable expense is worth paying to participate-- 25:38 Oh, sure absolutely, no, 25:40 but I just want to give the website which is-- Okay. 25:41 www.irla, International Religious Liberty Association 25:45 is what it stands for, irla.org. 25:48 We'll have information about that congress 25:49 there in Dominican Republic, 25:51 which is a continuation of this topic 25:53 and so if you are finding our conversation interesting, 25:55 which I hope that you are. 25:57 Then I would encourage you to, to take a look at that. 25:59 We have many regular viewers of this program. 26:01 I meet them almost every weekend 26:03 when I go somewhere. Yes. 26:05 To take way on, on this thing in Australia for me at least, 26:08 even though I'm an Australian 26:09 I think it's just further verification 26:12 that religious liberty is a global concern. Yes. 26:15 It's not just in the United States, 26:16 it's not just concern with the U.S. Constitution. 26:19 People of many faiths, many nationalities 26:23 have dynamic issues today. 26:25 I mean the news is swelling round us 26:27 and it was great to see them 26:28 coming together as experts in Australia. 26:30 Yeah, it is, it is, I find it 26:33 as a Christian encouraging sometime 26:35 here in the United States, I'm a little discouraged 26:38 because I don't see Christianity growing like 26:41 I'd love to see it growing. 26:43 And so this conference to me 26:46 was just to see religion alive 26:48 and well in the world was just really encouraging. 26:53 At the height of the French Revolution 26:55 the crowd held up a woman on a platform 26:58 and paraded her though the streets. 27:01 Literally worshiping her 27:02 as the epitome of wisdom or reason. 27:06 That really was a low point 27:09 in how a population looked at religion. 27:12 Because they were dismissing religion as illogical 27:14 and they would worship reason. 27:17 You know, God in the Bible says to man, 27:19 come, let us reason together. 27:22 So there's not a question that in thinking about faith 27:25 we're to use intelligent analysis. 27:30 In our modern world many people have 27:32 gotten confused on this dynamic and thought secularism 27:36 or rational thought is in some opposition to faith. 27:40 I don't see secularism in itself an enemy of faith. 27:44 But secularism practice to the exclusion of religion 27:47 can be very detrimental to the practice of faith 27:51 and ultimately can unable distinct attacks against faith, 27:56 ultimately might even enable persecution. 27:59 We need to work as we did in Australia to inform 28:02 and to create a climate that encourages faith. 28:06 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17