Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program
that brings you discussion
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and up to date news,
views and information
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on religious liberty
events and developments
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around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
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Editor of Liberty
Magazine and my guest
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on the program is Samuel Thomas,
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who's had a number
of roles in the past
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including pastoring a church
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just near 3ABN, few years ago.
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But currently you
are working as a promoter
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for, what of a better term,
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for Message
Magazine. Correct. And...
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we had a program
already where we discussed some
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of the common issues
that the message treats
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that Liberty
Magazine is always treating.
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Let us talk about
Religious Liberty,
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big surprise on Liberty Insider,
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but you're not just
promoting the magazine
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you're integrally
involved with projecting
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it's message. Correct.
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And no pun again.
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Religious liberty
is something you can't
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really ignore
nowadays or religious freedom
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issues in the war
on terrorism. Right?
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We've been faced
in the United States,
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but the whole world since 9/11,
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with religious
forces on the move.
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Do you see, continuing evidence
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in the United States,
that the religious freedoms
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are perhaps had become a
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casualty of the
war on terrorism?
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I think people have
accepted that freedom or
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liberties as we have known them
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are sacrificial, you
know, for lack of a better term,
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for what we need to experience
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in the face of these threats.
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Security, it hasn't
made up the greater value.
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And unfortunately I think that,
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it's because it's a
spontaneous response,
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it's a natural human reaction.
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A few responses as well.
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It is, it is,
because little has been done
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to evaluate what we
can actually live with,
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why do we have to
have these particular
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intrusions into
our person as well as a
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diminished value of liberty
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as we have know
them historically.
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Do you think that
the underlining attitude
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of what religious
freedom itself has suffered some
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damage? Oh, undoubtedly.
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Undoubtedly, if we
go to the first major
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law enacted after
9/11, The Patriot Act,
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all the way to
where we are today.
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We can see this constant erosion
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and whether it's
justified or not.
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Okay, only time will tell,
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but one thing is for sure,
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people covet their
way of life uninterrupted,
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undisturbed and
that is the greatest
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significance to them.
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Then theoretical.
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Then theoretical. Freedom.
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Exactly freedom of liberty.
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And it really, it
really smacks off an
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indifference to what
liberty really means.
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Now you're getting
closer to what I was
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fishing for. Yeah.
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I think peoples...
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base comprehension of the
issues of play has changed.
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They don't, even at
this late point I don't think
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the average person
see's great issues that play.
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There are incrementalisms,
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there's an
immediate response, discovery,
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immediate threat and
this is the response.
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They're not looking
at the big picture and in
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Liberty Magazine of course,
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we're decrying the
fact that a radical
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intolerant form of
Christianity is even
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being empowered in
the aftermath of 9/11.
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Well, let me put
a question to you.
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In the scope of
the work and in travels
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and information that
comes across your desk
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and that you have to
become imminently involved
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with, have you ever
seen a working definition
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of a terrorist. No.
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Thank you, you're
asking the questions to me
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and bringing out one
of my, I think it's a very
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loosey-goosey term
and of course we probably
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had to disavow
some of our national
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in the United States, some
of our own national powers.
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Because I can
remember when good upstanding
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many of them Roman
Catholics in the United States
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were happy to send
their money to fund
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the IRA in Ireland. Certainly.
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That was a conflict that had
religious overturns and then.
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Government was fine with that.
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In other cases, the
US has directly funded
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insurgencies in
different countries
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against those governments.
Established governments.
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Yes, but now we've
pretty much embraced
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the idea that
any armed insurgency
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that the government objects
to it will call it terrorist.
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Any freedom fighter.
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This is how I've
projected it in often
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in sermons that we have a
religious face to terrorism.
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So what comes to
mind is Islamic extremists
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dressed in particular way,
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brandishing some
particular military
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apparatus or something.
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But at the end of the day that's
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a religious face to terrorism.
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We have not really
step back and looked
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at this critically and said,
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what keeps it from
being a different religion?
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What we've really
done is back off from
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recognizing 9/11, it
was one particular faith
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that it informed
the terrorist actions.
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Obviously Islam,
which is not beside that all
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of the Islam
would have done that,
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but we've been
careful I think from
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our government on
down to try to say that
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we're not opposed to all
Muslims in the Islamic world.
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And so we moved
fairly consistently
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toward the present point.
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Where now it's
expressed if you think back on
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what the government is saying
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is we're condemning
religious extremism.
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And now there's my
next question my following
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question has to be,
what is religious extremism?
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Because unless you...
That's the dangerous... Yeah.
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Because unless
you really know that
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religion, unless
you know the boundaries
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of that religion who
defines it as extremism?
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Absolutely, and if
you're a secular person
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or a nominal
Christian or even Islam.
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It owns you as a society apart
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from you just believe system.
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But certainly a
nominal Christians will find
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regular church goers
and people that order their
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daily life
after Biblical example
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will that find
that person extremist.
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I can tell you even
within the Seventh-day
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Adventist Church,
it's gotten to the point
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if you go to a meal
and you're careful not to
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have any meat or you
wouldn't drink alcohol
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and so on you might be
seen as a extremist Adventism.
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Extremist Adventist.
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So this is a very
dangerous terminological
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development in my view.
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In the interim, we talk issue
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with fundamentalist.
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And Liberty Magazines
even had articles on this.
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These are
Islamic fundamentalists,
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Christian fundamentalists
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are dangerous too.
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And the term is
being used to escape people
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away from being
as they should be,
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fundamentally dedicated
to Biblical Principles.
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A Fundamentalist in
it's best sense means that
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I bought into
these constructs of God's
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word, I will order
my life back at root,
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fundamentally I'm
committed to that.
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And I appreciate
you giving us a working
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definition
because that's in contrast
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of fanaticism, you
know which fanatical view.
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And even fanaticism
of course can be very
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subjective, but it's
probably a better away
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of coming up, what's going on.
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But I think the
fundamentalist thing,
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cast dispersions on
any group that was seen as
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sort of narrow minded
and not flexible enough
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to be in the real world.
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And now extremist,
that just means that yes,
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all beliefs are acceptable.
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Where we're
pluralistic enough in the world,
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we'll allow the
existence of belief systems.
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But if they act on it.
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If they believe it, if
it's a visceral commitment?
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No that's extremism
and we don't want to.
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And I believe
it's leading inexorably
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toward a synchronistic religious
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construct in the world.
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Which is not
illogical for globalist
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pretensions because
in the world community
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there is more and
more interconnected,
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where religion has
been spoiling dynamic then
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often erupting into violence.
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If we can tone it down
to where they co-exist,
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don't trouble each other,
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then all will be fine...
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So let's talk
about, what is Syncretism?
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Syncretism is mixing
different belief systems
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in a combination
with either meet their
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beliefs or take on
attributes of others.
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And there's not distinctive,
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in the case of Christianity
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you wouldn't have a distinctive
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doctrinal postition.
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You'll be loosey-goosey
and accepting of other
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faiths even in
your own practice.
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And when I reach
into grand prophecy then
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and that's sounds
like Babylon to me.
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Absolutely, because now
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you're into fundamentalist
speak here. Oh my! Oh my!
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I mean, there are
many in our own church
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that would look sort of
bridal, you know, Babylon.
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And unfortunately,
we've had the experience
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of some extreme hysteresis
types that would start
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to call the
Church itself Babylon.
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Right, which we're not to do.
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But Babylon historically
and in the Bible analogy
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was a, you know,
that city that system
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that built itself
up in opposition to God
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but it was
characterized by confusion,
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and that's what syncretism is.
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Syncretism is
basically confusion.
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So where do we go
with this understanding of
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Well, I don't know where we,
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we're in every
regard how we deal with this
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but I believe that
it is the looming threat
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and it's the way this war
on terrorism is leading us.
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It's redefining what
it is to hold any faith
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and how we socially and legally
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allowed to act on them.
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And it's an inhibition to
real religious commitment.
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So what does that mean?
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Just unpack it
a little bit more.
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What I think it means is that,
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what would be characterized from
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the Bible as
persecution is probably,
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if not here already imminent.
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Because of the intolerance.
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The system that
exists in the case of US,
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it's a democratic
people driven system.
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It's not dictatorial in the
sense if you got to seize it.
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But even the system
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in a country
like the United States
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is prepared and
may already be actually
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doing it, prepared to prosecute
00:11:17.66\00:11:19.47
those that act of their faith.
00:11:19.48\00:11:21.54
And I'm not saying in
a violent way bringing
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their buildings
down. Sure, sure.
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But in ways that are
socially unacceptable
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and the scene is
inherently dangerous.
00:11:26.96\00:11:30.86
Are we really ready for that?
00:11:30.87\00:11:32.27
I don't think
any of us are ready.
00:11:32.28\00:11:34.69
I'm just speaking
for myself through
00:11:34.70\00:11:36.87
intellectually I
can see it coming.
00:11:36.88\00:11:39.29
But how it will
come when I'm restricted
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as a Editor of Liberty Magazine,
00:11:43.67\00:11:45.10
it's not impossible. That's...
00:11:45.11\00:11:46.72
I'll be careful, I
don't want to live under
00:11:46.73\00:11:49.13
a persecuting conflicts.
00:11:49.14\00:11:50.54
But I can see a
dynamic where what we do could
00:11:50.55\00:11:53.78
come under some from
either society or some entity.
00:11:53.79\00:11:59.10
Because more and more
00:11:59.11\00:12:00.10
we're at odds with
where the society is going.
00:12:00.11\00:12:02.73
So how do we prepare,
I mean, as Christians?
00:12:02.74\00:12:04.79
Well, as Christians
our preparation has to be
00:12:04.80\00:12:07.27
spiritual, we need to, you know,
00:12:07.28\00:12:10.24
the Seventh-day
Adventist Church, at the moment,
00:12:10.25\00:12:11.52
our new General
Conference President,
00:12:11.53\00:12:13.10
has emphasized
Revival and Reaffirmation.
00:12:13.11\00:12:17.03
We need that which
is a prelude to then
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intellectually
coming to groups with
00:12:19.71\00:12:21.79
the challenge that
maybe looming and decide
00:12:21.80\00:12:24.08
that we will be inflexible
00:12:24.09\00:12:26.52
in defending our
faith in our God.
00:12:26.53\00:12:28.38
I'd made a
commitment personally for
00:12:28.39\00:12:30.71
Revival and Reaffirmation,
I think it is important
00:12:30.72\00:12:32.28
for all of us to
do that. Wonderful.
00:12:32.29\00:12:35.05
I'm sure all of you
watching this program
00:12:35.06\00:12:39.08
will know that we're
in serious times and that
00:12:39.09\00:12:41.35
we need to decide
what it is that we believe
00:12:41.36\00:12:44.27
in and to be able to act on it.
00:12:44.28\00:12:46.13
Stay with us, we'll
be back after the break
00:12:46.14\00:12:48.17
to discuss this
more fully. Thank you.
00:12:48.18\00:12:51.73
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:13:01.68\00:13:05.19
much less publish a
magazine, but this year Liberty,
00:13:05.20\00:13:09.29
the Seventh-day Adventist
voice of religious freedom,
00:13:09.30\00:13:11.88
celebrates one hundred years
of doing what it does best,
00:13:11.89\00:13:15.69
collecting,
analyzing, and reporting the ebb
00:13:15.70\00:13:18.85
and flow of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:18.86\00:13:21.95
Issue after issue,
00:13:21.98\00:13:23.30
Liberty has taken on
the tough assignments,
00:13:23.31\00:13:25.86
tracking down
threats to religious freedom
00:13:25.87\00:13:28.15
and exposing the
work of the devil
00:13:28.16\00:13:29.69
in every corner of the globe.
00:13:29.70\00:13:31.63
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:31.64\00:13:34.38
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:13:34.39\00:13:37.40
sequestered within the
church community itself
00:13:37.41\00:13:39.48
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:39.49\00:13:42.73
Liberty exists for one purpose
00:13:42.74\00:13:44.65
to help God's people maintain
00:13:44.66\00:13:46.91
that all important
separation of Church and State,
00:13:46.92\00:13:49.91
while recognizing the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:49.92\00:13:53.53
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:13:53.54\00:13:56.73
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:13:56.74\00:13:59.76
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line of
00:13:59.77\00:14:03.07
almost half of the publications
00:14:05.39\00:14:07.11
existence and the foresight
00:14:07.12\00:14:08.98
of a little
woman from New England.
00:14:08.99\00:14:11.31
One hundred years of struggle,
00:14:11.32\00:14:13.59
one hundred years of victories,
00:14:13.60\00:14:15.39
religious
freedom isn't just about
00:14:15.40\00:14:17.36
political machines
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:17.37\00:14:20.34
It's about people fighting
00:14:20.35\00:14:22.74
for the right to serve the God
00:14:22.75\00:14:24.46
they love as their hearts
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:24.47\00:14:28.39
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:14:28.40\00:14:30.65
of Seventh-day
Adventists everywhere.
00:14:30.66\00:14:33.05
Liberty will
continue to accomplish
00:14:33.06\00:14:34.99
its work of providing
00:14:35.00\00:14:35.97
timely information,
spirit filled inspiration,
00:14:35.98\00:14:38.76
and heaven sent encouragement
00:14:38.77\00:14:40.38
to all who long to live and work
00:14:40.39\00:14:43.35
in a world bound
together by the God ordained
00:14:43.36\00:14:46.70
bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:46.71\00:14:49.40
Welcome back to Liberty Insider,
00:14:59.76\00:15:01.66
thank you for
returning and I'm sure before
00:15:01.67\00:15:04.48
the break like I see
you're drawn into the topics
00:15:04.49\00:15:07.29
and we were talking
about religious Liberty
00:15:07.30\00:15:11.01
changes and the war
on terrorism that had
00:15:11.02\00:15:12.75
diminished if not the
legal right of religious
00:15:12.76\00:15:16.71
expression that some of the
00:15:16.72\00:15:18.27
social allowances
that we've gotten in.
00:15:18.28\00:15:20.12
I think we're
heading inexorably to a point
00:15:20.13\00:15:22.11
of conflict where
anybody with a deeply held faith
00:15:22.12\00:15:25.09
that must share
and express yourself
00:15:25.10\00:15:27.80
publicly is
going to be inhibited
00:15:27.84\00:15:29.55
in somewhere another.
00:15:29.56\00:15:31.55
And you brought up I
think the fact that our
00:15:31.56\00:15:35.20
Seventh-day
Adventist Church is calling
00:15:35.21\00:15:36.84
for Revival and Reaffirmation.
00:15:36.85\00:15:38.19
I think this is a
necessary preparation
00:15:38.20\00:15:40.42
for this oncoming
dynamic, isn't that?
00:15:40.43\00:15:43.13
Well, spiritually if
we're not prepared for
00:15:43.14\00:15:45.27
what's coming and
that's not our attempting to
00:15:45.30\00:15:48.54
anticipate it, but
just spiritually on guard,
00:15:48.55\00:15:51.58
alert and improved,
in our walk with God.
00:15:51.59\00:15:55.56
And it's
troublesome, because already
00:15:55.57\00:15:57.76
I was just reading as
recently as a week ago.
00:15:57.77\00:16:01.76
We're hungry as
already started proposing a law
00:16:01.77\00:16:05.46
or has proposed a law
to limit its classification
00:16:05.47\00:16:09.58
and of religions
and that's potentially
00:16:09.59\00:16:12.85
a reclassification
of existing religions
00:16:12.86\00:16:15.03
depending upon
size and the duration
00:16:15.04\00:16:17.89
of existence in their country.
00:16:17.90\00:16:20.00
Well, that's
troublesome, that's troublesome.
00:16:20.01\00:16:22.84
Yeah, we've had whole
programs on Liberty Insider
00:16:22.85\00:16:27.09
on this and it fits within
00:16:27.10\00:16:29.14
and are
reinstated by Global vision.
00:16:29.15\00:16:31.75
I see, as I've absorbed
these events for a long time
00:16:31.76\00:16:36.24
now in my present job
00:16:36.25\00:16:37.67
but even before
that I was looking at it.
00:16:37.68\00:16:39.09
You know we in
modern history we've gone
00:16:39.10\00:16:42.77
through the
colonial period, the nation,
00:16:42.78\00:16:45.37
states and so on.
00:16:45.38\00:16:46.52
The Nationalist aspiration
00:16:46.53\00:16:47.94
really ruled a lot of history.
00:16:47.95\00:16:50.68
But I think we're
now in a post nationalist
00:16:50.69\00:16:53.11
phase, we're in
the postism stage.
00:16:53.12\00:16:55.36
Capitalism is discredited much
00:16:55.37\00:16:58.08
as those of United
States might wish otherwise
00:16:58.09\00:17:00.18
is discredited around the world.
00:17:00.19\00:17:01.67
Communism is
largely discredited,
00:17:01.68\00:17:03.96
materialism is
burning itself out because
00:17:03.97\00:17:08.95
people since 2008
don't have access to it.
00:17:08.96\00:17:12.57
What I'm saying, the
rise of people groupings
00:17:12.58\00:17:17.03
often ethnic but usually
with the religious marker.
00:17:17.04\00:17:22.61
These are religious groupings.
00:17:22.62\00:17:25.73
And in Europe,
which everybody said was
00:17:25.74\00:17:28.38
a secular
collection of secular states,
00:17:28.39\00:17:32.22
and certainly secular mindsets,
00:17:32.23\00:17:34.27
but we're finding
out that they define
00:17:34.28\00:17:38.53
themselves more and
more by a religious identity.
00:17:38.54\00:17:40.82
And the majority
religious group are in
00:17:40.83\00:17:43.73
the process of
empowering that group
00:17:43.74\00:17:46.96
and are they
registering or dis-empowering
00:17:46.97\00:17:49.80
any other
competing religious factions.
00:17:49.81\00:17:51.67
And that's what
this thing in Hungary is,
00:17:51.68\00:17:53.00
we're seeing in
the Soviet Union or in
00:17:53.01\00:17:55.27
Russia, which used
to be the focal point
00:17:55.28\00:17:59.12
of thepower of the Soviet Union,
00:17:59.13\00:18:00.50
Russia under the influence
00:18:00.51\00:18:02.07
of the Eastern-Orthodox, Church.
00:18:02.08\00:18:04.07
They've come into
power and they defined being
00:18:04.08\00:18:06.71
a Russian is being a
Eastern-Orthodox follower.
00:18:06.72\00:18:09.05
And all other
religions are monitored,
00:18:09.06\00:18:11.44
controlled or regulated
out of existence. What?
00:18:11.45\00:18:17.23
This is
happening in United States.
00:18:17.24\00:18:19.00
I alluded it a
little earlier I think.
00:18:19.01\00:18:20.75
Where these
Christian nation concept,
00:18:20.76\00:18:23.30
you know, Christian America.
00:18:23.31\00:18:25.33
This is basically a way to draw
00:18:25.34\00:18:27.63
the barricades around us.
00:18:27.64\00:18:29.87
We're Christians and outside
00:18:29.88\00:18:31.88
is the threatening other world
00:18:31.89\00:18:33.68
and the other
religions and so on.
00:18:33.69\00:18:35.23
Is this intentional?
00:18:35.24\00:18:36.65
Do you think it's intentional?
00:18:36.66\00:18:37.65
Yes, I think a lot
of it's intentional.
00:18:37.66\00:18:39.18
Some of it's just being
00:18:39.19\00:18:40.68
accelerated by current events.
00:18:40.69\00:18:43.16
But people, groupings, nations,
00:18:43.17\00:18:45.74
if you want to use that term.
00:18:45.75\00:18:46.94
They need to define
themselves and the old
00:18:46.95\00:18:51.10
ways aren't working any more.
00:18:51.11\00:18:53.20
And United States
is a classic case.
00:18:53.21\00:18:55.12
But Europe is
facing it where are these,
00:18:55.13\00:18:56.87
there is so many
groups and population centers.
00:18:56.88\00:19:04.02
Where, you know,
people are coming from so many
00:19:04.03\00:19:05.64
countries with so
many different cultural
00:19:05.65\00:19:08.00
and social and ethnic ideas.
00:19:08.01\00:19:09.83
What's the common
denominator? Religion.
00:19:09.84\00:19:12.65
Religion more and more.
00:19:12.66\00:19:15.99
Goodness knows you can't even
00:19:16.00\00:19:17.06
have a cultural
in the United States.
00:19:17.07\00:19:19.02
Because someone in
Oklahoma and someone
00:19:19.03\00:19:20.78
in New York city, they... Sure.
00:19:20.79\00:19:22.60
Believe me they're more
different than I'm as an
00:19:22.61\00:19:25.63
Australian
coming from Australia.
00:19:25.64\00:19:28.17
But with an
existential religious threat
00:19:28.18\00:19:30.90
from outside it suddenly
00:19:30.91\00:19:32.08
forces us to define ourselves.
00:19:32.09\00:19:34.75
And if you're one of
that majority religion,
00:19:34.76\00:19:36.52
there is not restriction
on your religious practice.
00:19:36.53\00:19:40.40
It's an empowerment
but when you're talking
00:19:40.41\00:19:42.21
about religious
prosecution it's almost
00:19:42.24\00:19:44.62
instantaneous, if
you're one of the groupings
00:19:44.63\00:19:47.13
outside, you're marginalized
00:19:47.14\00:19:48.51
and perhaps been persecuted.
00:19:48.52\00:19:50.72
You know if for some reason
00:19:50.73\00:19:51.82
what you're saying
resonates with the book I read,
00:19:51.83\00:19:54.55
it's been a while, Dr.
Francis Schaeffer's book
00:19:54.56\00:19:57.30
Yes. How should...
00:19:57.31\00:19:58.28
I already read that many
years ago. Yeah, I read it...
00:19:58.29\00:20:00.57
It formed a lot of my thinking.
00:20:00.58\00:20:02.25
Well, it's
interesting that he forms
00:20:02.26\00:20:05.93
the premise that
of course Christians,
00:20:05.94\00:20:08.58
when they were
killed in the Roman Empire.
00:20:08.59\00:20:10.21
We are not done,
they're not done in,
00:20:10.22\00:20:12.45
they weren't
martyred because of their
00:20:12.46\00:20:15.66
commitment to a different God.
00:20:15.67\00:20:17.84
But because they would not
00:20:17.85\00:20:19.62
give obeisance to Caesar. Right.
00:20:19.63\00:20:21.89
And so do you see the
state ultimately rising
00:20:21.90\00:20:25.87
up as the highest
order of loyalty in America.
00:20:25.88\00:20:31.38
Yes, but in the
way that he was saying.
00:20:31.39\00:20:35.20
I'll mention an
episode that I saw in TV
00:20:35.21\00:20:38.16
that I think speaks to this.
00:20:38.17\00:20:39.97
Jerry Falwell before he died.
00:20:39.98\00:20:43.36
He was on TV
once with Al Sharpton,
00:20:43.37\00:20:45.63
and there was something else,
00:20:45.64\00:20:47.12
I'm gonna
forget the other guest.
00:20:47.13\00:20:48.37
They were
discussing abortion and more
00:20:48.38\00:20:52.86
fundamentalist
right wing leaders
00:20:52.87\00:20:55.76
and you know
that was litmus test
00:20:55.77\00:20:57.30
of how they
related to the society.
00:20:57.31\00:20:59.67
Al Sharpton though
on that occasion defend,
00:20:59.68\00:21:02.62
he thought abortion
wasn't the only issue
00:21:02.63\00:21:05.61
and he tried to
interject concern
00:21:05.62\00:21:08.26
for civil
rights and in that city
00:21:08.27\00:21:12.02
and you know that whole thing.
00:21:12.03\00:21:13.18
And Jerry Falwell took exception
00:21:13.19\00:21:14.77
and he turned to him.
00:21:14.78\00:21:15.80
And I memorized
exactly what he said.
00:21:15.81\00:21:17.79
He said that, if you
believe that, he said,
00:21:17.80\00:21:19.78
you're not a Christian,
you're not an American,
00:21:19.79\00:21:24.74
you are a terrorist.
00:21:24.75\00:21:26.79
That's
compelling. I mean it's...
00:21:29.32\00:21:31.53
Because it's the
quick deduction, so if...
00:21:31.54\00:21:34.88
going back to
another example that if more
00:21:34.89\00:21:39.45
and more America
defines itself as sort of this
00:21:39.46\00:21:41.72
Christian nation concept.
00:21:41.73\00:21:43.41
That we are, you know,
that the holy crusaders and...
00:21:43.42\00:21:47.37
You know the manifest
destiny and all of this
00:21:47.38\00:21:50.04
is wrapped up in a,
you go against that,
00:21:50.05\00:21:53.68
it's not so much
you're against the state
00:21:53.69\00:21:55.58
but you're against
its divine charter.
00:21:55.59\00:22:00.33
You're the spiritual other.
00:22:00.34\00:22:04.17
So is that while we
see the pardon parcel
00:22:04.18\00:22:08.06
of this movement
for America to have this
00:22:08.07\00:22:13.21
dominant unity with
its Christian roots.
00:22:13.22\00:22:17.42
There's this
constant referral back to some
00:22:17.43\00:22:21.27
of the founding fathers,
00:22:21.28\00:22:22.27
who by the way were
not even Christians.
00:22:22.28\00:22:23.64
I don't know what people.
00:22:23.65\00:22:24.62
Well, not in the traditional
sense. Orthodox sense.
00:22:24.63\00:22:28.47
No, you know they're
deists. They're deists.
00:22:28.48\00:22:30.30
And I often said on
this program deism in my view
00:22:30.31\00:22:33.01
was an acceptable way at
that time to be a unbeliever.
00:22:33.02\00:22:36.43
Exactly,
because a deist accepted
00:22:36.44\00:22:38.61
that their was some prime cause.
00:22:38.62\00:22:40.40
Some creator who
then sort of disappeared,
00:22:40.41\00:22:43.90
left it all I'm
saying, unwilling.
00:22:43.91\00:22:45.40
In some ways that's thoroughly
00:22:45.41\00:22:48.26
compatible with evolution.
00:22:48.27\00:22:49.32
And it really came
out of age of reason.
00:22:49.33\00:22:51.26
But I think that where
I want to go with this is,
00:22:51.27\00:22:56.02
how do we respond to
this overwhelming momentum?
00:22:56.03\00:22:59.83
Because it's moving.
00:22:59.84\00:23:01.01
Well, it's on a
personal level and I think there
00:23:01.02\00:23:05.35
has to be spiritual preparation,
00:23:05.36\00:23:06.67
or else you know why is
there an informed person
00:23:06.68\00:23:11.19
of a religious
propensity any better
00:23:11.20\00:23:13.01
than a secularist if
they're just trying to
00:23:13.02\00:23:14.68
just order the world
to their satisfaction.
00:23:14.69\00:23:16.59
But really it's
about spirituality and you
00:23:16.60\00:23:19.86
and I have to deal
with that personally.
00:23:19.87\00:23:21.63
But I can call people
to spiritual preparation,
00:23:21.64\00:23:25.87
beyond that what I
more and more trying
00:23:25.88\00:23:28.18
to encourage our
Liberty relatives
00:23:28.19\00:23:29.92
in the promotion for next year
00:23:29.93\00:23:32.39
to Seventh-day Adventist.
00:23:32.40\00:23:33.44
I want to really emphasize.
00:23:33.45\00:23:34.61
Yes, these things
are happening and easy
00:23:34.62\00:23:37.48
to document a great
procession of things
00:23:37.49\00:23:39.77
in the United
States and the world.
00:23:39.78\00:23:42.86
That signal a tightening
of religious expression.
00:23:42.87\00:23:48.28
But in a wonderful way
what that means is here
00:23:48.29\00:23:52.67
is the opportunity of
a lifetime of the century
00:23:52.68\00:23:56.28
if you like, to
proclaim freedom as citizen in
00:23:56.29\00:23:59.73
Christ, to proclaim
the inherent dignity of man
00:23:59.74\00:24:03.81
and the rights to order
your spiritual identity.
00:24:03.82\00:24:07.69
Since these questions
are now so in your face,
00:24:07.70\00:24:10.85
may be with the
negative connotation.
00:24:10.86\00:24:13.00
But this is the moment to speak
00:24:13.01\00:24:14.44
about it naturally, other times
00:24:14.45\00:24:15.62
they wouldn't
have listened to us.
00:24:15.63\00:24:17.62
And with Liberty
Magazine was sending
00:24:17.63\00:24:19.07
the magazine out to, you know,
00:24:19.08\00:24:21.58
presidents and
congressmen and senators
00:24:21.59\00:24:24.12
and so on, you
know, all the way down,
00:24:24.13\00:24:25.93
all these thought leaders.
00:24:25.94\00:24:27.78
They're going to read
perhaps as never before
00:24:27.79\00:24:30.48
some of our answers
to these challenges.
00:24:30.49\00:24:33.61
This is a moment of opportunity.
00:24:33.62\00:24:36.05
How do we get people to support?
00:24:36.06\00:24:37.20
I mean do we just subscribe
to it or do we sponsor?
00:24:37.21\00:24:41.25
I mean, what do we need
to do, to get the part of it?
00:24:41.26\00:24:43.13
Well, we need to target audience
00:24:43.14\00:24:44.11
with Liberty Magazine,
thank you for leading me,
00:24:44.12\00:24:47.74
I don't know if
I introduced you as
00:24:47.75\00:24:48.92
the promoter
for Message Magazine
00:24:48.93\00:24:50.97
but you know
promotion. Thank you.
00:24:50.98\00:24:53.63
With Liberty Magazine
somebody has to pay to
00:24:53.64\00:24:56.65
send the magazine to
just target individual,
00:24:56.66\00:24:58.86
a government functionary
or lawyer or judge or
00:24:58.87\00:25:03.82
something like that.
00:25:03.83\00:25:05.08
We can't expect them
to volunteer the money,
00:25:05.09\00:25:07.50
but we give appeals
to our Church members
00:25:07.51\00:25:10.35
in the magazine itself.
00:25:10.36\00:25:11.33
We're appealing for
people to send the money
00:25:11.34\00:25:13.32
either to subscribe
themselves or to send it
00:25:13.33\00:25:15.53
to someone else.
00:25:15.54\00:25:16.71
So it's as much as sponsorship
00:25:16.72\00:25:18.23
as a direct subscription.
00:25:18.24\00:25:19.37
But yes, those that have
00:25:19.38\00:25:21.07
a burden they get the word out.
00:25:21.08\00:25:22.35
This is again
their opportunity for,
00:25:22.36\00:25:24.34
what $6 a year to
get a magazine in front
00:25:24.35\00:25:27.27
of a thought leader.
00:25:27.28\00:25:28.26
So it's a wonderful
dynamic and as never
00:25:28.27\00:25:31.82
before I think the prime
00:25:31.83\00:25:33.53
recipients are
ready to read this.
00:25:33.54\00:25:35.12
They may not agree
with any, everything,
00:25:35.13\00:25:36.63
that's up to the
dynamic of their mind and our
00:25:36.64\00:25:39.42
presentations and so on.
00:25:39.43\00:25:40.54
But we at least
put it in front of them
00:25:40.55\00:25:42.27
as discussion matter
they can be engaged on and
00:25:42.28\00:25:46.64
make up their mind
based on their conscious and
00:25:46.65\00:25:49.89
the evidence that we put there.
00:25:49.90\00:25:51.08
But certainly we
don't raise the discussion,
00:25:51.09\00:25:52.29
people don't have
the opportunity to learn.
00:25:52.30\00:25:54.92
But these are more
theoretical prophetic
00:25:54.93\00:25:56.57
type things from years ago.
00:25:56.58\00:25:58.31
But now it's an in
your face issue. Yes, it is.
00:25:58.32\00:26:00.45
And you don't need to reach
00:26:00.46\00:26:02.61
into Revelation to
bring up the point.
00:26:02.62\00:26:04.68
You reach it in the
last Supreme Court decision.
00:26:04.69\00:26:07.16
They see these things.
00:26:07.17\00:26:08.89
Well that's why
I became supporter,
00:26:08.90\00:26:10.42
you know I don't know
if I can reject that your.
00:26:10.43\00:26:12.22
You brought it up for
now I'll confirm it, yes.
00:26:12.23\00:26:15.31
You and many, many
others are financial
00:26:15.32\00:26:19.68
supporters of what we're
doing with Liberty Magazine.
00:26:19.69\00:26:21.81
We thank you, we
thank those of our viewers
00:26:21.82\00:26:24.55
who've been moved to
support financially as
00:26:24.56\00:26:27.40
well as with their prayers with
00:26:27.41\00:26:28.38
what Liberty Magazine is doing.
00:26:28.39\00:26:29.66
And it is important for
us to support the cause,
00:26:29.67\00:26:32.16
because by supporting
the cause we're actually
00:26:32.17\00:26:34.76
purposely
turning our minds toward
00:26:34.77\00:26:36.60
what Liberty stands for
00:26:36.61\00:26:38.56
and what this
magazine does by going out.
00:26:38.57\00:26:40.76
Partners'
partnership and building that
00:26:40.77\00:26:44.09
relationship is
what it's all about,
00:26:44.10\00:26:45.99
so that the word can forward
00:26:46.00\00:26:47.60
and the message can get out.
00:26:47.61\00:26:48.93
You know, it's pretty
easy when you're talking
00:26:51.00\00:26:52.55
about religious
freedom today to cast horrible
00:26:52.56\00:26:57.94
threatening poll over
many of the developments.
00:26:57.95\00:27:02.64
We can never take
Religious Liberty for granted.
00:27:02.65\00:27:05.23
But we must always keep in mind
00:27:05.24\00:27:07.48
that when you're
talking about religious liberty,
00:27:07.49\00:27:09.67
it's not a legal construct.
00:27:09.68\00:27:11.66
It's not a necessity
of winning an argument
00:27:11.67\00:27:14.27
passing a law to
support your faith.
00:27:14.28\00:27:16.64
Religious freedom ultimately
00:27:16.65\00:27:18.39
is the opportunity to
present a reason for our faith.
00:27:18.40\00:27:24.16
In the New
Testament, in the book of Acts,
00:27:24.17\00:27:25.84
Peter and John
were brought before
00:27:25.85\00:27:28.02
the authorities for
their faith threatened,
00:27:28.03\00:27:30.06
told that they
would be imprisoned
00:27:30.07\00:27:31.93
or worse if they're persistent.
00:27:31.94\00:27:34.18
And they went
back to the believers.
00:27:34.19\00:27:36.21
They told them
what had happened,
00:27:36.22\00:27:37.77
they prayed to God.
00:27:37.78\00:27:39.11
And in the
prayer to God they said,
00:27:39.12\00:27:40.93
look upon their threats
00:27:40.94\00:27:43.80
and they didn't say protect us.
00:27:43.81\00:27:46.15
They said grant to
your servants all power
00:27:46.16\00:27:50.47
to witness, to heal
00:27:50.48\00:27:52.56
and to speak
powerfully in your name.
00:27:52.57\00:27:55.57
And the record says
that when they finished
00:27:55.58\00:27:57.15
praying, the room was
shaken and they went out
00:27:57.16\00:27:59.31
and did those things.
00:27:59.32\00:28:00.93
So to you today,
all these threats
00:28:00.94\00:28:02.96
to religious Liberty
mean that the opportunities
00:28:02.97\00:28:05.15
have never been better.
00:28:05.16\00:28:08.02
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:08.03\00:28:11.12