Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program
that brings you discussion
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and news and inside information
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on religious
liberty developments
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in the United States
and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the
program is Elder Samuel Thomas.
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Welcome back, this is not
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the first program,
we've done, but it maybe
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the first to some of
our viewers have seen,
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and so by way of introduction,
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I'll say you've 3ABN connection.
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You used to be
pastor of the church,
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in the town here
in Thompsonville,
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but beyond that, you
are currently promoting
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or the lead promoter
for Message Magazine.
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That's correct,
Director of Marketing.
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And I've an
affinity with all magazines,
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because I've edited not
just Liberty, but few others.
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I worked with many magazines
and books over the years.
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And so, you know, I
want to promote the message,
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no problem of all publications
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that are getting
out a freedom message.
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And Message
Magazine is promoting
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the message of faith
in Jesus Christ, right.
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To a predominantly,
but not exclusively
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black
population. That's correct.
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But, why I like
it for this program
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is that I know
this from time to time,
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in fact more and
more as time goes by
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you are featuring
on church state issues
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and matters of governance
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and how we relate to
the state and society.
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It's necessary we
live in worst times.
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Can't avoid it. That's correct.
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And so, I don't
see any magazine is
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moving in on Liberty magazine,
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what I see is
Liberty's focal concerned
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is more and more picked
up by publications all over,
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not just church
publications, you know,
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whether it's Harper's Magazine
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or daily
newspaper, I see more and more
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that they have to
deal with these issues.
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You know, what I
want to discuss with you
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in a previous
program you'd mentioned
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the black community having,
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perhaps a different
attitude of tolerance toward
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practicing gays
even in church life
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than some in the
other Christian communities.
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This is a thorny
issue, the emerging gay rights
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model and how the Christians,
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how the biblically oriented
Christians relate to this?
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Well, I think
it's difficult for us
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and we're challenged by
balancing the love of Christ
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while confronting what the
Bible clearly defines a sin.
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What our
challenges are probably,
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where our challenges
are brought to a crossroad
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is when we trying
to put into practice
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lifestyle change, encouraging
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people to move in
a different direction
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while at the same
time embracing them.
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So because the
black community has
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in its roots the
understanding of impression
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and separation and all of that,
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then there is this
natural outgrowth of tolerance.
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But unfortunately
what some people have done
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is they have taken
that and then they have
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put a totally
different spin on it.
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So that we now have
this great surge of concern
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for gay rights to
the point of marriage
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which was never a
part of Gods design.
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Absolutely, there's
now way to get a Biblical
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or from the Bible to
get a pro-gay viewpoint.
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The best that I've
seen, Christian gay activists
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can manufacture
sort of drawing on coast
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for charity and
compassion. Right.
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To sort of enable their agenda,
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but there is no
pro-gay behavior mandate
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from the Bible
whatsoever. Right.
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But this gay movement
and how Christians relate to
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it can have some
really radical spin-offs.
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You know, Supreme
Court just recently
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brought then a
decision in the case of
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Westboro Baptist Church based
in Topeka, Kansas, I think,
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but they were
traveling around to as many as,
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I think 600 sites
around the United States
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after that military
funerals stridently haranguing
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the families of slain
soldiers with Anti-Gay Diatribes
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and so on it was
a relevant what the
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orientation of the soldier was,
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they just hated what was
going on in the military.
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And using as an excuse
to condemn in lurid language
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gay behavior to
condemn the United States to,
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you know,
damnation or destruction
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for embracing such behavior.
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And all in the
name of Christianity,
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all in the name of faith.
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But how do we address
that, since we are nation
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that tolerate
opposing views, I mean...
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Well, the Supreme Court
brought down the decision
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that even objection of
those speech is protected
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and they have upheld on a
free speech point of view.
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And that's fine
constitutionally,
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societally, I think its
going to have great load back,
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because many people find
that thoroughly objectionable,
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they find it
hateful, they find it,
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you know, an
abusive faith projection
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and many Christians
distance themselves from that.
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And I think it's going
to set the United States up
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for some later
point, actually restricting
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such speech
which will be very bad.
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Well, don't we have to
surrender to the reality
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that people will
have opposing views
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and at the same time suggest
that there is a way to voice
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an opposing view
and I think that's where
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people are
conflicted, or, you know,
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here they have a right to say.
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This is where we see
our nation going wrong,
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but at the same
time it is in such,
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as you stated
such a lurid level,
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it's beyond what's considered
in good sense or good taste.
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Well, I don't know that
it's really been settled.
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We can appeal to the Bible,
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I'm trying to figure
the text that flooded
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through my mind where
we esteemed the other--
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Or highly than ourselves, yes.
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So we respect them
as a fellow creature
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and God loves them and
so, of course, but, you know,
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what about the Jeremiah's
and the others who stood
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at the public
place and railed against
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the corruption in
the state and in society.
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John the Baptist,
who Jesus said, you know,
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there was no greater among men
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and but this was
not homosexuality,
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but he condemned the
public immorality of Herod.
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Certainly! For
which he lost his head.
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Yeah, absolutely, so
I'm inclined to think
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that someone of
faith on occasions has to
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speak out in
unpalatable way to society
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but they should
take the consequence.
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I don't think its
reasonable to expect,
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if you have a moral
viewpoint that civil
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society is
going to empower that,
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because it's terms of
reference are different,
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that there is gonna
be times when society
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cannot, will not give
you a pass on what you
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by conscience compel
to say and you say it
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and you take the consequence.
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But doesn't it go
back to the whole issue of
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where we see our beginning.
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If we describe
our beginning to God
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versus evolution, then we,
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how we look at life,
it's totally different.
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But you are
bringing in some thing that
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we didn't even discuss,
but I just...what are your
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thoughts in
Christian institutions
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across the United
States, more and more
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we're finding
that biblically based
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viewpoints on origins
and not routinely enforced
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or repeated and secular ideas
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on evolution and
so on are slipping in.
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How can a church
maintain integrity of message
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even within its own circles?
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All right, I think
that there are some
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elements of or
aspects, I had to say,
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elements with
some certain aspects of
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theology and doctrine
that are not debatable.
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Unfortunately,
because we live in an age
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where we think
that everything is open
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for discussion, whether we do it
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under the clause
of academic freedom,
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otherwise we open the
door to this novel idea.
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Then we can
somehow through open dialog
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come to some common,
come some common ground.
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But that erodes
the very, the very
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bedrock of
scripture, it's authoritative.
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You gave a good
answer, because this is what
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I was hinting at broadly,
but maybe not getting it
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what I was trying to get
across when I was saying,
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you take the
penalty in society at large,
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even in like the United States,
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where we have liberal democracy
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and there is freedom of speech.
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All things are not permissible.
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There are restrictions,
there are necessary
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boundaries drawn in a church
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or a civic organization,
there are rules of behavior,
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there are
foundational principles
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that you would hear to,
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if you depart from
that, there is a penalty.
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It could be
expulsion from the organization
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and so a church is
not, every just because
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the church
believes in free choice
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and we're all equal under God.
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It doesn't mean, you
can do and say anything,
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even those
things that are opposed
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to the principles of the church.
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One of the things
that we find in this debate
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is the challenge of
Revelation and Inspiration,
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that's one of the key pieces.
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If I don't
believe that scriptures
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God's reveal will through man.
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If I don't believe that
they are divinely inspired.
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If I don't believe in certain
00:10:15.18\00:10:17.38
core values of God
in His sovereignty.
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Then a lot of the
rest of this whole dynamic,
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this energy that
surrounds the debate,
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really, it gets muddled.
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And so you have
Christians saying,
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where they believe
in aspects of their sin,
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but they don't believe
that and so we're not here
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as scientists trying
to, you know, partially,
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you know, what might
have occurred in certain
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protract the
processes, you know,
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through the course of time.
00:10:45.95\00:10:47.24
But from a theological
standpoint, we can't say,
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either we believe the
word of God or we don't.
00:10:50.31\00:10:53.95
And when it comes to that
then we really need to find
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a little bit less
negotiable position
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concerning that, I
mean, we wouldn't have
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the reaffirmation
truthfully Lincoln.
00:11:04.21\00:11:06.65
If we had not had men who
said, I stand on the Bible.
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Now did they do
everything that the Bible said,
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I mean, where
there are some things
00:11:13.05\00:11:14.20
in the Bible
that they hadn't yet
00:11:14.21\00:11:15.40
grasped or accepted certainly.
00:11:15.41\00:11:17.95
But at the
cornerstone the bedrock
00:11:17.96\00:11:20.98
of their movement was the Bible.
00:11:20.99\00:11:24.35
Conscience inform by the Bible.
00:11:24.36\00:11:26.76
Correct, correct.
00:11:26.77\00:11:28.06
And not illusive, I think
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you are directly
alluding to. Certainly.
00:11:29.84\00:11:32.18
Early on he
thought that he could
00:11:32.19\00:11:33.61
inform his church, you
know, it would correct itself,
00:11:33.62\00:11:35.71
but he clearly recognized.
00:11:35.72\00:11:39.12
I think by the times
of the Diet of Worms,
00:11:39.13\00:11:41.17
he clearly
recognized that he was gonna
00:11:41.18\00:11:43.09
have to go his own way
00:11:43.10\00:11:44.07
that the church was
not gonna accept it.
00:11:44.08\00:11:47.23
And that he would have to leave,
00:11:47.24\00:11:50.66
reformation is one
thing with because, you know,
00:11:50.67\00:11:53.03
reformation implies that they
00:11:53.04\00:11:54.25
were reforming
the Christian Church.
00:11:54.26\00:11:56.17
But they could not reform
00:11:56.18\00:11:57.39
the Catholic Church adequately,
00:11:57.40\00:11:58.98
so they left and
form their own group.
00:11:58.99\00:12:01.62
The Catholic Church
had a counter reformation
00:12:01.63\00:12:03.79
where it cleaned the shop.
00:12:03.80\00:12:07.12
But I, this issue of
freedom and how we relate
00:12:07.13\00:12:10.24
not just to the
state but to the church,
00:12:10.25\00:12:12.08
is one that I think is
hardly ever investigated
00:12:12.09\00:12:14.92
and we need to
recognize that yes,
00:12:14.93\00:12:16.64
we're not to
compel other people as the
00:12:16.65\00:12:19.43
Medieval Church did
within, sure, you know,
00:12:19.44\00:12:22.07
not just enforce compliance,
00:12:22.08\00:12:24.12
it would punish non-compliance.
00:12:24.13\00:12:26.81
That's not
biblical, but the idea
00:12:26.82\00:12:28.83
that within the belief system,
00:12:28.84\00:12:30.29
within a given
church, people can indulge
00:12:30.30\00:12:33.38
views that are directly contrary
00:12:33.39\00:12:34.67
to the foundational principles
00:12:34.68\00:12:35.96
and still call
themselves a member
00:12:35.97\00:12:37.92
of that church is nonsense,
high standing nonsense.
00:12:37.93\00:12:42.05
Let's pursue
this discussion that
00:12:42.06\00:12:43.66
I'm really
enjoying after the break.
00:12:43.67\00:12:45.71
Please stay with us,
we will be back shortly.
00:12:45.72\00:12:47.82
One-hundred
years, a long time to do
00:12:57.59\00:13:00.55
anything much less
publish a magazine,
00:13:00.56\00:13:03.31
but this year Liberty,
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:03.32\00:13:06.46
voice of religious freedom,
00:13:06.47\00:13:08.03
celebrates one hundred years
00:13:08.04\00:13:09.84
of doing what it does
best, collecting, analyzing,
00:13:09.85\00:13:13.30
and reporting the ebb and flow
00:13:13.31\00:13:15.18
of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:15.19\00:13:17.88
Issue after issue,
Liberty has taken on the
00:13:17.89\00:13:20.77
tough assignments,
tracking down threats
00:13:20.78\00:13:23.09
to religious
freedom and exposing
00:13:23.10\00:13:24.63
the work of the devil in
every corner of the globe.
00:13:24.64\00:13:27.84
Governmental interference,
00:13:27.85\00:13:29.18
personal attacks,
corporate assaults,
00:13:29.19\00:13:31.79
even religious
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00:13:31.80\00:13:33.78
within the
Church community itself
00:13:33.79\00:13:35.66
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:35.67\00:13:38.62
Liberty exists for one purpose
00:13:38.63\00:13:40.95
to help God's
people maintain that
00:13:40.96\00:13:43.08
all important
separation of Church and State,
00:13:43.09\00:13:45.98
while recognizing the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:45.99\00:13:49.94
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:13:49.95\00:13:52.49
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:13:52.50\00:13:56.04
Thanks to the
inspired leadership
00:13:56.05\00:13:57.76
of a long line of
dedicated Adventist Editors,
00:13:57.77\00:14:00.51
three of whom
represent almost half of the
00:14:00.52\00:14:02.34
publications
existence and the foresight
00:14:02.35\00:14:04.80
of a little
woman from New England.
00:14:04.81\00:14:07.19
One hundred years of struggle,
00:14:07.20\00:14:09.30
one hundred years of victories,
00:14:09.31\00:14:11.41
religious
freedom isn't just about
00:14:11.42\00:14:13.46
political machines
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:13.47\00:14:16.20
It's about people
fighting for the right to serve
00:14:16.21\00:14:19.69
the God they
love as their hearts
00:14:19.70\00:14:22.16
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:22.17\00:14:24.45
Thanks to the prayers
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00:14:24.46\00:14:26.70
Seventh-day
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00:14:26.71\00:14:28.82
Liberty will continue
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00:14:28.83\00:14:31.27
of providing timely information,
00:14:31.28\00:14:33.13
spirit filled inspiration,
00:14:33.14\00:14:34.68
and heaven sent encouragement
00:14:34.69\00:14:36.32
to all who long to live and work
00:14:36.33\00:14:39.52
in a world bound
together by the God
00:14:39.53\00:14:42.03
ordained bonds of
religious freedom.
00:14:42.04\00:14:44.93
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:14:55.35\00:14:57.62
My name is Lincoln Steed,
00:14:57.63\00:14:58.98
Editor of the Liberty Magazine
00:14:58.99\00:15:00.41
and my guest is Sam Thomas.
00:15:00.42\00:15:03.18
Now we were
tackling some heavy stuff
00:15:03.19\00:15:05.41
before the break, talking about
00:15:05.42\00:15:08.27
attitudes toward
gay behavior or gay,
00:15:08.28\00:15:12.43
well, it wasn't
just gay behavior,
00:15:12.44\00:15:13.55
we're talking
about gay's behavior and
00:15:13.56\00:15:17.51
the stance that they
take on their lifestyle.
00:15:19.90\00:15:22.78
In the black
community, then we got on to
00:15:22.79\00:15:24.58
how this relates
to freedom of choice
00:15:24.59\00:15:27.33
and freedom of dissention
within a church community.
00:15:27.34\00:15:32.68
Now, in the break,
you and I were talking
00:15:32.69\00:15:35.30
little further and
I should point out,
00:15:35.31\00:15:37.00
because I've had
lot of discussion about
00:15:37.01\00:15:38.61
this gay marriage thing,
ever since Liberty Magazine,
00:15:38.62\00:15:41.16
came out with an
entire issue on it
00:15:41.17\00:15:43.31
and this is one of the reasons
00:15:43.32\00:15:45.03
I was happy to
have you on the program,
00:15:45.04\00:15:46.60
because the
article in that issue
00:15:46.61\00:15:48.18
that I thought
had the most traction
00:15:48.19\00:15:50.92
in discussing
the whole gay rights
00:15:50.93\00:15:52.62
and gay marriage issue
00:15:52.63\00:15:54.14
was to question
a basic assumption
00:15:54.15\00:15:56.98
that's now unquestioned
to compare gay rights
00:15:56.99\00:16:01.63
to civil
rights, or to, you know,
00:16:01.64\00:16:04.75
the civil
rights movement rather.
00:16:04.76\00:16:06.77
And I think that's syllogism.
00:16:06.78\00:16:08.51
I think they are not the same.
00:16:08.52\00:16:10.65
Well, they are not the same,
00:16:10.66\00:16:12.02
but I think the other
piece that we need to clarify
00:16:12.03\00:16:14.86
because we have
batted this about
00:16:14.87\00:16:18.12
for few minutes
now and that is the
00:16:18.13\00:16:20.02
proclivity versus
practicing. Absolutely.
00:16:20.03\00:16:22.52
You know, there is a
distinction and so when
00:16:22.53\00:16:24.37
we're talking about
gays in its true form
00:16:24.38\00:16:28.11
are premises really practicing.
00:16:28.12\00:16:30.77
They are those
who have a proclivity,
00:16:30.78\00:16:32.03
but they are not
practicing and that,
00:16:32.04\00:16:34.28
of course, there is no
condemnation in scripture.
00:16:34.29\00:16:37.31
This is my point, you know,
00:16:37.32\00:16:39.18
we're talking about gay
behavior which the Bible
00:16:39.19\00:16:41.87
clearly condemns unequivocally.
00:16:41.88\00:16:44.74
In the Old and
the New Testament.
00:16:44.75\00:16:47.26
And those that the
Christian community
00:16:47.27\00:16:49.96
that argue for the acceptance
00:16:49.97\00:16:51.19
of gay behavior,
try to find traction
00:16:51.20\00:16:54.52
in calls for
charity and understanding.
00:16:54.53\00:16:58.37
Well that's fine,
but they can't do away
00:16:58.38\00:17:00.12
with these direct
statements condemning
00:17:00.13\00:17:01.99
homosexual behavior and in the
00:17:02.00\00:17:04.14
Old and the New Testaments,
00:17:04.15\00:17:05.42
they were given at the time
00:17:05.43\00:17:06.68
when it was socially acceptable.
00:17:06.69\00:17:09.48
You know, those were
inclined to interpret
00:17:09.49\00:17:11.01
the Bible in a
historical context
00:17:11.02\00:17:15.45
or a cultural context
which is true to the point,
00:17:15.46\00:17:19.25
but can be misused.
00:17:19.26\00:17:21.12
Their point is
wrong, because you can't say
00:17:21.13\00:17:24.27
well, Paul, who
condemned homosexuality because
00:17:24.28\00:17:27.99
that was just the
attitude of his day,
00:17:28.00\00:17:29.63
no the attitude of his day
00:17:29.64\00:17:30.76
was to accept
it, not to reject it.
00:17:30.77\00:17:33.32
So we had to have a
higher moral viewpoint.
00:17:33.33\00:17:36.31
But he was
talking about the behavior
00:17:36.32\00:17:38.27
which God's call
holds us very culpable
00:17:38.28\00:17:40.29
for what we do,
what we act up on.
00:17:40.30\00:17:42.56
But we're all
damaged human beings.
00:17:42.57\00:17:45.89
And sin gives the
bias, or Adam's first sin
00:17:45.90\00:17:49.81
in our inherited
behaviors, I mean, you know,
00:17:49.82\00:17:52.70
through our
ancestors and our own practice,
00:17:52.71\00:17:55.34
our own upbringing
gives us an easy bias
00:17:55.35\00:17:58.43
to do the wrong things
and mind gives rise to that.
00:17:58.44\00:18:01.40
But we're not condemned until
00:18:01.41\00:18:03.35
we indulge the
certain act on it.
00:18:03.36\00:18:05.95
And so it to me from
a church perspective,
00:18:05.96\00:18:09.52
proclivity or a bias
toward certainly moral behavior,
00:18:09.53\00:18:15.42
that's between
that person and God.
00:18:15.43\00:18:17.31
When they act on it,
we can speak against that,
00:18:17.32\00:18:20.44
we can say that's wrong,
00:18:20.45\00:18:21.79
that's not following God's men.
00:18:21.80\00:18:24.08
As we can against
a thief, or murderer,
00:18:24.09\00:18:27.16
absolutely, or an adulterer.
00:18:27.17\00:18:29.14
Remember Paul says,
00:18:29.15\00:18:30.93
enumerating all of these things,
00:18:30.94\00:18:32.01
he says some of
these you once were.
00:18:32.02\00:18:33.82
That's correct. Once, yes,
00:18:33.83\00:18:35.29
a Christian is called to change,
00:18:35.30\00:18:37.69
but a Christian is
not called to condemn
00:18:37.70\00:18:40.14
the world for
all of its behaviors,
00:18:41.18\00:18:42.43
those are all automatically
00:18:42.44\00:18:43.51
it depends on the
works of darkness.
00:18:43.52\00:18:45.50
But a Christian is
called to be charitable to the
00:18:45.51\00:18:48.36
non-believer and to encourage
them to come to the light.
00:18:48.37\00:18:51.69
So, you know, I
think as far as Christians
00:18:51.70\00:18:53.47
relating to the
whole gay movement,
00:18:53.48\00:18:54.89
we can't
condemn them whatsoever.
00:18:54.90\00:18:58.53
They haven't made
the profession of Christ,
00:18:58.54\00:19:02.77
then they have many
things in their life that
00:19:02.78\00:19:04.43
need to be illuminated by
the light of God's leading.
00:19:04.44\00:19:07.88
But within the
Christian community,
00:19:07.89\00:19:10.08
I think we're
on dangerous ground
00:19:10.09\00:19:11.57
if we think that
we can enable behavior
00:19:11.58\00:19:14.61
that is condemned by the Bible.
00:19:14.62\00:19:16.73
So we need to see
again back to this point,
00:19:16.74\00:19:19.80
wee try to bring it,
practice and proclivity.
00:19:19.81\00:19:23.20
Proclivity, we can't
condemn people, right,
00:19:23.21\00:19:26.07
within or without the church.
00:19:26.08\00:19:27.22
But the church
should not embrace worldly
00:19:27.23\00:19:29.52
practices of any
type in this whole gay,
00:19:29.53\00:19:32.27
open gay movement is embracing
00:19:32.28\00:19:34.07
the worst of the
world's behavior.
00:19:34.08\00:19:35.93
One of the thing that
I want to interject here
00:19:35.94\00:19:37.79
is that Paul directly
communicates to Timothy
00:19:37.80\00:19:42.58
that he said, I want you to know
00:19:42.59\00:19:44.10
how to behave
yourself in the church,
00:19:44.11\00:19:47.02
which is the pillar
and ground of truth.
00:19:47.03\00:19:49.68
Well, when we're not
assure and when we don't have
00:19:49.69\00:19:53.88
those established
absolutes like truth.
00:19:53.89\00:19:56.66
Then we have the
challenge of what do we believe,
00:19:56.67\00:19:59.72
well this is acceptable or
well that's not acceptable.
00:19:59.73\00:20:02.50
But there are some very fixed
00:20:02.51\00:20:03.97
boundaries in the word of God.
00:20:03.98\00:20:05.90
And I keep
going back to creation
00:20:05.91\00:20:08.03
and I'm hammering that premise,
00:20:08.04\00:20:10.48
because if you have that clear
00:20:10.49\00:20:12.74
of heterosexual created beings
00:20:12.75\00:20:16.01
or created beings
who are heterosexual,
00:20:16.02\00:20:18.19
then you have a premise on
God's approach to humanity.
00:20:18.20\00:20:23.02
You start there
and how were they to,
00:20:23.03\00:20:26.83
how are they to
fill the earth through
00:20:26.84\00:20:29.08
sexual
interaction and of course,
00:20:29.09\00:20:31.27
they can procreate,
which does not occur
00:20:31.28\00:20:34.76
within a homosexual relationship
00:20:34.77\00:20:37.20
or practicing, we use that term.
00:20:37.21\00:20:38.40
Well, that's a logical argument,
00:20:38.41\00:20:40.17
but it's not really a
theological argument to see.
00:20:40.18\00:20:42.40
And we're in a
brave new world of
00:20:42.41\00:20:46.39
test tube babies and
artificial insemination.
00:20:46.40\00:20:50.71
So I think,
there's an analogy there
00:20:50.72\00:20:54.11
that underscores the
truth, but from the beginning,
00:20:54.12\00:20:57.70
God has and I'm
inclined to think its really
00:20:57.71\00:21:00.77
ferments or aren't
good, it's not necessarily
00:21:00.78\00:21:02.59
that there is a
higher morality per say,
00:21:02.60\00:21:05.59
but God created us, He
knows what is good for us
00:21:05.60\00:21:09.33
and premarital sex for example
00:21:09.34\00:21:11.71
and things like that
destroy the human capacity
00:21:11.72\00:21:17.15
to relate
correctly, it bring in jealous,
00:21:17.16\00:21:19.37
even this just many
levels of disruption.
00:21:19.38\00:21:21.82
So God for our protection has
00:21:21.83\00:21:24.57
mandated the
marriage arrangement.
00:21:24.58\00:21:27.35
He has condemned
aberrations like homosexuality
00:21:27.36\00:21:31.68
that destroy the whole thing,
00:21:31.69\00:21:33.89
that's that I think
we've got to look at
00:21:33.90\00:21:36.40
it from that
perspective that He had,
00:21:36.41\00:21:37.96
God has laid this down just like
00:21:37.97\00:21:40.12
clean and
unclean meats. Certainly.
00:21:40.13\00:21:41.71
You know, the
world has gotten very
00:21:41.72\00:21:43.95
dismissive of that,
but it sort of obvious,
00:21:43.96\00:21:45.71
if you look at
that the unclean meats
00:21:45.72\00:21:48.69
most times are scavengers
and dangerous creatures.
00:21:48.70\00:21:53.19
Well, it's given down as
a religious prescription,
00:21:53.20\00:21:55.16
but God put it
for our protection.
00:21:55.17\00:21:57.03
And the Bible says
that over and over,
00:21:57.04\00:21:58.44
I've said before
you life and death.
00:21:58.45\00:22:00.02
And here, you know, choose this,
00:22:00.03\00:22:01.62
do the right
thing and you will live.
00:22:01.63\00:22:04.59
And you will lay non
of the diseases upon you
00:22:04.60\00:22:08.18
and it's amazing, I'm
gonna say something that people
00:22:08.19\00:22:11.61
are being condemn for before.
00:22:11.62\00:22:12.85
But I don't think
from a Christian morality
00:22:12.86\00:22:16.76
point of view, you
can separate the whole
00:22:16.77\00:22:19.64
AIDS scourge
from the gay movement.
00:22:19.65\00:22:24.57
It's not a
punishment of God, that's wrong,
00:22:24.58\00:22:27.86
you know, the idea of
God has inflicted this,
00:22:27.87\00:22:30.06
but I think it underscores
00:22:30.07\00:22:31.44
that God's prescriptions
have a cause and effect.
00:22:31.45\00:22:34.35
You disobey God and in this case
00:22:34.36\00:22:37.16
the whole gay
community and it was not
00:22:37.17\00:22:39.30
hundred percent
confined to them,
00:22:39.31\00:22:41.33
but they were exposed to
a cause and effect penalty.
00:22:41.34\00:22:45.25
The natural world turned on them
00:22:45.26\00:22:48.46
and we need to recognize that
00:22:48.47\00:22:52.01
and while we look
to salvation beyond,
00:22:52.02\00:22:55.09
a lot of the benefits
of becoming a Christian
00:22:55.10\00:22:58.66
or follower of God and
obeying the divine precepts.
00:22:58.67\00:23:01.89
A lot of the
benefits are here in now.
00:23:01.90\00:23:04.42
In peace of mind, in of health,
00:23:04.43\00:23:07.02
in a more secure
social environment.
00:23:07.03\00:23:10.32
Well, the benefits of serving
God always out way the cost.
00:23:10.33\00:23:14.33
I mean there is a real negative
00:23:14.34\00:23:16.07
and in religious
liberty we talk about it.
00:23:16.08\00:23:18.09
It also God says,
"All who live a godly life
00:23:18.10\00:23:20.75
will suffer persecution".
00:23:20.76\00:23:22.17
All, because you
are in conflict with the
00:23:22.18\00:23:25.79
contrary viewpoint,
the world for one of our
00:23:25.80\00:23:28.23
better term that not
that it doesn't accept God,
00:23:28.24\00:23:30.85
but rejected the demon
and as antagonist toward him
00:23:30.86\00:23:34.76
and inspired by
Satan that world will clash
00:23:34.77\00:23:37.24
with the Christian viewpoint.
00:23:37.25\00:23:38.22
And is supposed to. Absolutely.
00:23:38.23\00:23:39.89
It clashed with
Christ and so Christ was not
00:23:39.90\00:23:42.45
in the business
of making the world
00:23:42.46\00:23:44.14
a better place to live and stay.
00:23:44.15\00:23:46.85
He was making it
a tolerable place
00:23:46.86\00:23:49.23
in the areas where He
was teaching principles
00:23:49.24\00:23:51.56
on how we
interact with each other,
00:23:51.57\00:23:53.26
but it was always about
serving Him to live here.
00:23:53.27\00:23:55.80
Right, but there servant
on the mountain points out,
00:23:55.81\00:23:57.75
that there's an
immediate benefits
00:23:57.76\00:23:59.09
to become a part
of God's kingdom.
00:23:59.10\00:24:01.69
Benefits that will be fulfilled,
00:24:01.70\00:24:03.17
absolutely when
the eternal kingdom
00:24:03.18\00:24:05.52
is inaugurated as his return.
00:24:05.53\00:24:07.46
But you know, I'm
giving a bit of vibe,
00:24:07.47\00:24:09.00
what am I serving?
00:24:09.01\00:24:10.09
But the servant on
the maintain of God said,
00:24:10.10\00:24:11.60
the kingdom of
God is here among you,
00:24:11.61\00:24:13.95
He was bringing it
in with its guidelines
00:24:13.96\00:24:17.85
and it's rewards and
it's obligations immediately.
00:24:17.86\00:24:21.45
And that's what God
wants us to do, I mean,
00:24:21.46\00:24:23.18
God wants us to
live the kingdom of God
00:24:23.19\00:24:25.72
in our
communities, in our homes,
00:24:25.73\00:24:28.31
in our respective churches.
00:24:28.32\00:24:30.71
Let's also mention
this fact that an attack
00:24:30.72\00:24:33.64
on marriage, well, back up.
00:24:33.65\00:24:37.20
The promotion of gay
marriage will it becomes
00:24:37.21\00:24:40.68
an attack on
marriage and when it becomes
00:24:40.69\00:24:42.54
attack on marriage, it
becomes an attack on society.
00:24:42.55\00:24:45.29
And on God's way of
order in human behavior.
00:24:45.30\00:24:47.95
Exactly and
that's where I'm going,
00:24:47.96\00:24:49.59
so it's a much bigger
issue than we choose to
00:24:49.60\00:24:54.33
want to sometimes embrace.
00:24:54.34\00:24:55.75
Now, there is something,
we're running out of time
00:24:55.76\00:24:57.54
for this
program, but I should say,
00:24:57.55\00:25:00.01
from the beginning, I've seen
00:25:00.02\00:25:02.15
and others have
seen a moral issue
00:25:02.16\00:25:04.46
and the need for Christians to
00:25:04.47\00:25:06.12
speak with clarity on this,
00:25:06.13\00:25:07.53
not condemnation, but clarity.
00:25:07.54\00:25:09.44
But on a
religious liberty level,
00:25:09.45\00:25:10.99
there is a developing, dynamic,
00:25:11.00\00:25:12.49
it's more and more problematic
00:25:12.50\00:25:13.84
where this new found right,
00:25:13.85\00:25:15.73
gay right is
being used to restrict
00:25:15.74\00:25:18.41
and attack the rights
of religious expression.
00:25:18.42\00:25:21.95
And I've said, the
number of times on this program
00:25:21.96\00:25:24.79
that in Canada, where the
00:25:24.80\00:25:25.97
gay movement is more advanced,
00:25:25.98\00:25:28.37
there is an
expectation that we would
00:25:28.38\00:25:29.96
soon see
restriction of ministers
00:25:29.97\00:25:33.86
or requirement of ministers
00:25:33.87\00:25:35.14
to perform gay
marriages and if they didn't,
00:25:35.15\00:25:37.51
they would be forbidden
to function as ministers.
00:25:37.52\00:25:40.25
Well, the signs
just heard recently
00:25:40.26\00:25:43.20
that in Saskatchewan,
they maybe actually
00:25:43.21\00:25:45.80
putting that into practice,
00:25:45.81\00:25:46.83
but we've expected in
Canada, this would be.
00:25:46.84\00:25:49.34
This is a direct
attack on the practice of
00:25:49.35\00:25:52.49
religion, not, you
know, that's not the gay issue
00:25:52.50\00:25:58.24
per say, but this
right is being used against
00:25:58.25\00:26:01.97
the right of
Christian expression.
00:26:01.98\00:26:03.74
So how do we
stand in these times?
00:26:03.75\00:26:06.25
These are difficult times,
00:26:06.26\00:26:07.54
but we need to
decide that we will speak
00:26:07.55\00:26:10.93
as we should speak and
take the consequence in my view.
00:26:10.94\00:26:14.03
Well if we're gonna
take the consequences,
00:26:14.04\00:26:16.13
we must know the
word of God and we hope
00:26:16.14\00:26:17.93
that you will take the
time to learn the word of God.
00:26:17.94\00:26:20.85
Being a part of
Liberty is not just
00:26:20.86\00:26:23.04
matter of promoting it,
but it is also living it
00:26:23.05\00:26:26.40
and living it in truth
00:26:26.41\00:26:28.05
and God's word is
the bedrock of truth.
00:26:28.06\00:26:30.89
So we encourage you
to take the word of God
00:26:30.90\00:26:33.19
seriously, read
it, study it, pray,
00:26:33.20\00:26:36.36
build your
relationship with God.
00:26:36.37\00:26:38.09
And as you do, you
will discover the truth
00:26:38.10\00:26:41.38
is a wonderful bedrock
of comfort and security.
00:26:41.39\00:26:46.62
There is a certain
irony that the framers
00:26:48.25\00:26:51.63
and the founders of
the American Republic,
00:26:51.64\00:26:54.28
while they were
emphasizing individual rights
00:26:54.29\00:26:57.35
were dazedly afraid of
the tyranny of the masses.
00:26:57.36\00:27:00.66
The irony is evident today,
00:27:00.67\00:27:02.11
because we're seeing
certain special interest groups
00:27:02.12\00:27:05.65
standing for new found rights
00:27:05.66\00:27:08.73
pushing so hard
that there is a risk
00:27:08.74\00:27:11.82
that all the established rights
00:27:11.83\00:27:13.94
and obligations
will be diminished,
00:27:13.95\00:27:15.93
to see this memorable evidence
00:27:15.94\00:27:17.78
and in the Gay Rights Lobby.
00:27:17.79\00:27:19.79
Now most Christians
and many other people
00:27:19.80\00:27:22.29
of religious faith are unsettled
00:27:22.30\00:27:25.20
to see what their
regard is something condemned
00:27:25.21\00:27:28.10
in their holy
writings so openly practiced.
00:27:28.11\00:27:31.07
But that must be
under the separation of
00:27:31.08\00:27:32.89
church and state
where there is a danger,
00:27:32.90\00:27:36.27
is where these new
found rights are used to
00:27:36.28\00:27:38.62
push against the
practice of religion.
00:27:38.63\00:27:41.92
We're seeing that and
we must object to that,
00:27:41.93\00:27:45.31
because our
religious rights are above
00:27:45.32\00:27:48.00
all of the constructs
of the secular society,
00:27:48.01\00:27:52.40
legitimate or
otherwise from a biblical,
00:27:52.41\00:27:55.24
moral point of
you, biblical morality,
00:27:55.25\00:27:58.46
practical faith must supersede.
00:27:58.47\00:28:01.64
And I hope we never get to see
00:28:01.65\00:28:03.57
religion restricted by a right.
00:28:03.58\00:28:07.42
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:07.43\00:28:09.77