Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program
that brings you discussion
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and lot of
up-to-date news and information
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and background information
on Religious Liberty events
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in the United
States and overseas.
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Today on the program
I have with me is guest
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Alan Reinach from
the Church State Council.
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You're an attorney Alan,
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so I know you can
speak authoritatively
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on lot of the legal issues
relating to freedom of religion
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in the United
States particularly.
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You know the Post Office
has a bad reputation doesn't it?
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We've a saying, 'Going Postal'.
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Well, I was about to say that.
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I've been tempted to
go postal, go postal.
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I get so frustrated
working with the Post Office.
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As oppose to just
a figure of speech,
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they've been
some postal employees
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that have gone seriously postal,
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mail them or
mail them all around.
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I think it's just
reflective of how important
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this institution is or
this aspect of the government
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A lot of people work many hours
and under difficult conditions
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to get out an
increasing massive mail.
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And we have to admire
the dedicated workers who do.
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You know there's a
statement what is it?
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Neither rain nor hail nor sleet
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will stop the
postman from his, his rounds.
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And we depend on it, on, on,
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on religious
accommodation cases though,
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I've noticed that an
unusually large number
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of those
concern the Post Office.
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We have, the Post
Office is our best customer
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when it comes to having
problems with postal employees
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needing to keep the Sabbath.
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We've more problems
with the Post Office
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than probably the next ten
biggest employers put together.
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That must be for
two basic reasons,
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they've such a complex schedule
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and constant activity
that makes it difficult.
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But they seem
to be resistant to,
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to accommodating
someone by shuffling
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the schedules to allow,
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for in this case
Sabbath observance from Sunday,
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Friday, until
Sunday and Saturday.
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You have a very
arcane system that management
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and the Labor
Union has contrived
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that make it almost impossible
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to provide accommodation
for individual Adventist.
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Yeah, that's unfortunate.
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Now, there's a case
that you were sharing with me
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before the program in
Loma Linda, California.
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Well. A particular Post Office.
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Up until the month of
April of this year of 2011,
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there were three
communities in the United States
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all Seventh-day
Adventist communities,
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where there was no
Saturday mail delivery.
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Were because they
were predominantly
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Adventist
communities for generations.
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The mail has been
delivered on Sunday,
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those three communities
Collegedale, Tennessee,
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Angwin California,
Loma Linda, California,
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home to Adventist College Towns.
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In April, the Post
Office in Loma Linda
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began without any public comment
without any public hearings,
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or input of any kind,
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arbitrarily ended
Sunday mail delivery
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and went to
Saturday mail delivery.
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One of the ironic
things about this decision
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is it for several
years the Post Office
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has been pushing in Congress
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to eliminate Saturday
mail delivery entirely.
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This came to my mind
when you told me about this.
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This is backing
the trend, isn't it?
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Now, you know the community,
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the Adventist
community in Loma Linda,
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for the most part is
not all that concerned
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about whether they
get their mail on Saturday
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or they get
their mail on Sunday.
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That's not
really a huge emotional
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or spiritual issue for them.
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What has been lost in all
of the public debate in the,
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in the stories whether they're
from the local newspapers
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of even from the Adventist News?
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Is it, there are
four Seventh-day Adventist
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Sabbath observing mail
carriers in this Post Office,
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who you know, coveted
been able to work there
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so that they
could have Sabbath off.
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And now they're gonna have
to start working on Saturday.
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So as the conditions
were changed on them.
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It's not like they,
they walked in off the street
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and has to be employed
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and then immediately
had a Sabbath problem.
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It's been an arrangement that
they've been accommodated gladly
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for years and
suddenly the rules have changed
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on them, haven't they?
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The Post-Office,
whenever I've had dealings
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with the Post Office with
employees in Southern California
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and we're trying to
get them accommodated.
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What do the Post Office lawyers
and what do their people tell me
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Maybe we can
transfer them to Loma Linda.
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And I laughed because of
course I know that you know,
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typically there are no
openings in Loma Linda.
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But people, Adventists
who work for the Post-Office,
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in one case,
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one of the mail
carriers, Ruth Gomez.
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She had been working for 9 years
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in another Post Office
in Southern California,
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delivering mail struggling
to get as many Saturdays off
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as she could
using her vacation time
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and trying to
swap with other people,
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and doing everything
she could to avoid working
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on Saturday with some success.
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But, but not, you know,
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still having to work
Saturdays from time to time.
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Finally, finally after 9 years,
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she gets
transferred to Loma Linda
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and she shows up
there, and she has told that
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they're going to start
delivering mail on Saturday.
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So, the timing is
very close on this,
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you hadn't been their alone.
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As soon as she got there,
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she gets the
letter that in one month.
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Cruel order isn't it.
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Now, Art
Cortina, who is an elder
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in his church in
Fontana I believe it is.
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Art has been a mail
carrier for 25 years.
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He's been at the
Loma Linda Post Office
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for more than a decade.
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And has, he's very
active in his local church,
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he's had to resign
his teaching as you know
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Sabbath school teacher and
a number of other positions
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in the church, because he
cannot in good conscience,
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teach the young
people to observe the Sabbath
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and the teachings of the
church when he knows that
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he's gonna have to now
go in and work on Saturdays
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and deliver mail.
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He just can't do it, it
has, had a devastating impact
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on these
Adventist mail carriers.
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Well, you know
that's a personal issue
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whether he would continue
to work or resign his job.
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But it seems very...
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After 25 years, you gonna
tell somebody to quit their job,
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loose their home you know
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I'm not gonna tell him about.
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but, I'm trying to
bring it back to the employer,
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it seems that a
government agency,
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of a government that says,
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it respects religious
commitment of citizens
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and there is a
accommodation promised,
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they just sort of cut
them off with the pass,
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this is not right,
this is antithetical
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to the principles of
the constitution, isn't it?
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Absolutely,
and, and what's more?
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And has there been a
good faith effort to try
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to arrange some accommodation
for these employees.
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Okay, look, at the low level,
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we've them filed their
EEO complaints right away
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and a lawyer gets assigned.
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And they'd say, okay,
here's how the system works
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and you can do
this, you can do that,
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you can try to swap,
you can use vacation time
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and all that, great.
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So you can avoid working
some Saturdays, it's true.
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But there's no way that
you can fully accommodate
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in their system, one
mail carrier much less four.
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So it's
inevitable that by changing
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from Sunday to Saturday
delivery either these folks
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are gonna start
working on Saturdays
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or they're gonna get
fired. Or transferred?
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No, if you get transferred,
you loose all of your seniority
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within that Post Office
that's the bizarre thing
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about the way the
Post Office works.
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And so if you're transferred,
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you've less chance of getting
Saturday off, not more chance.
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Well, I was about to
say that seniority per se
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that might be the
cost of your faith.
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But if it means that it's
harder to get the accommodation
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then there's a
double, double trouble.
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This system is
designed against giving people
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accommodation
and that's bizarre.
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And I do here
because many of these cases
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someone can't get it because
they're not senior enough. Right
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And that's, that's unfair
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from the point of
religious accommodation.
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Not necessarily
for the rights within,
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I think seniority concept
is good for loyal workers
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within an
organization but it's working
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against religious accommodation.
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In this case, my basic
premise is that the decision
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to change from Sunday
to Saturday mail delivery
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was itself discriminatory
and it cannot stand.
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Yeah, that's a dangerous,
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it might be true but that's
a very troubling situation.
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It had a desperate,
it had a desperate impact
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on Seventh-day
Adventist workers.
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The Post Office knows Loma Linda
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is a Seventh-day
Adventist community,
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it's well known, they know,
that it attracts Adventists
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who don't want to work on
Saturday for religious reasons.
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The decision was
clearly discriminatory,
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if the Post Office was
subject to punitive damages,
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this is a punitive damages case
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if ever there was
one, it was blatant.
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Now, this is only in Loma Linda,
not at Collegedale or not at....
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Right, only in Loma Linda.
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Now, you know, the
Post Office claims,
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that there are two reasons
why they wanted to do this,
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one is for an
improvement in service
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and that's get a little bit
sticky as far as how that works
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but it would be very
insignificant improvement.
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And the other is to save money
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which is also rather
insignificant cost savings.
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My postal workers
pointed out to me,
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that the Post Office
has been funding NASCAR,
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they funded Lance
Armstrong, you know,
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the champion
cyclist for many years.
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They spend millions
and millions and millions
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of dollars on
NASCAR, and Lance Armstrong.
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It was public
relations, isn't it?
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And they're gonna save,
you know, a few shackles,
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a few pennies by on the
back of these Adventist.
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Money spend on
Lance Armstrong and others
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that's for public
relations to put a good image.
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And here, they're
working in a manner
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calculated to bring
poor public relations.
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So, may be a little
expense they would be well spend
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to carry favor
with the community.
00:10:46.84\00:10:49.84
But it could
make, if for few reasons
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you and I don't understand
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is decided to almost
offend this local community.
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Well, now that gets into
speculation that I'm not,
00:10:58.52\00:11:01.51
I'm not prepared to deliver.
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Good loyally response,
but we hope that's not true.
00:11:03.08\00:11:05.75
We hope that there
is on going respect
00:11:05.76\00:11:07.91
in this particular location
as it should be anywhere for,
00:11:07.92\00:11:11.26
for deeply held religious faith.
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Well, one of the reasons
why I wanted to do this topic
00:11:13.61\00:11:17.10
with you is because
the media has lost sight
00:11:17.11\00:11:20.81
of these four
individuals whose lives,
00:11:20.82\00:11:24.88
who are suffering greatly
because of this decision.
00:11:24.89\00:11:28.27
You know, I'm not concerned
about whether there are citizens
00:11:28.28\00:11:33.13
who live in Loma Linda who
are upset or not upset about
00:11:33.14\00:11:37.50
whether they're gonna get
their mail on Saturday or Sunday
00:11:37.51\00:11:40.74
that to me is
not a crucial issue.
00:11:40.75\00:11:45.71
But when Art Cortina,
when Ruth Gomez are told
00:11:45.72\00:11:50.08
that you either
violate your faith,
00:11:50.09\00:11:52.39
or you're out on the
street with out a job.
00:11:52.40\00:11:55.03
This, and I know, and
I've spend time with them.
00:11:55.04\00:11:58.69
I know what
they're going through.
00:11:58.70\00:12:00.41
I know how much pain this is
causing them and their families,
00:12:00.42\00:12:04.03
that's where my
heart goes out to.
00:12:04.04\00:12:06.60
And frankly, I want to
urge those watching this program
00:12:06.61\00:12:10.20
to pray about this
situation because you know
00:12:10.21\00:12:13.65
we've got to get
this decision reversed.
00:12:13.66\00:12:16.15
They've got to go back
to the Sunday mail delivery
00:12:16.16\00:12:20.21
as long as they
are gonna have weekend.
00:12:20.22\00:12:22.39
Or some charitable arrangement
within the postal system
00:12:22.40\00:12:25.99
where they're not forced
to compromise their faith.
00:12:26.00\00:12:28.05
The system won't
accommodate four mail carriers
00:12:29.16\00:12:31.88
in a Post
Office, they just won't.
00:12:31.89\00:12:34.44
That's a shame, a country that
guarantees religious freedom,
00:12:34.45\00:12:38.50
by constitution, by history
and really by common agreement
00:12:38.51\00:12:42.83
with most people, even
those that are uncomfortable
00:12:42.84\00:12:44.74
with State Aid for religion.
00:12:44.75\00:12:46.64
They believe this is a
country of religious freedom.
00:12:46.65\00:12:49.07
We'll be back after the break
to discuss a little bit more
00:12:49.08\00:12:51.96
about not just this case but
what is the plight of workers,
00:12:51.97\00:12:55.86
in the work place on
religious freedom issues.
00:12:55.87\00:12:58.06
One hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:13:06.62\00:13:10.44
much less publish a
magazine, but this year Liberty,
00:13:10.45\00:13:14.22
the Seventh-day Adventist
voice of religious freedom,
00:13:14.23\00:13:16.95
celebrates one hundred years
of doing what it does best,
00:13:16.96\00:13:20.74
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00:13:20.75\00:13:24.22
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00:13:24.23\00:13:26.73
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00:13:26.74\00:13:30.90
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00:13:33.64\00:13:36.55
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:36.84\00:13:39.68
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:13:39.69\00:13:42.30
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00:13:42.31\00:13:44.66
have been clearly
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00:14:20.53\00:14:23.53
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00:14:43.56\00:14:47.59
and work in a
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00:14:47.60\00:14:50.22
by the God ordained
bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:50.23\00:14:54.01
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:15:04.46\00:15:06.09
Before the break I was talking
with guest Attorney Alan Reinach
00:15:06.10\00:15:09.01
about an unusual
case with the Post Office
00:15:09.02\00:15:12.69
in Loma Linda, California.
00:15:12.70\00:15:13.93
And we got talking what
generally about religious
00:15:13.94\00:15:17.29
accommodation in
the United States
00:15:17.30\00:15:19.74
and I want to bring it
even more close at hand.
00:15:19.75\00:15:22.52
We're in clearly in the
middle of an economic downturn
00:15:22.53\00:15:25.39
whether it's, still,
added to turn up a little.
00:15:25.40\00:15:28.75
But these
are...these are tough times.
00:15:28.76\00:15:31.28
We've lost 8 million
jobs, I don't care how well
00:15:31.29\00:15:34.29
the stock market is
rallying, we still are,
00:15:34.30\00:15:38.45
it's very tough times
for many, many Americans.
00:15:38.46\00:15:41.08
Absolutely, and what that
means is that the employee
00:15:41.09\00:15:43.77
is in a tighter
situation in their work place,
00:15:43.78\00:15:47.19
there scene is expendable.
00:15:47.20\00:15:49.52
And more and
more work employees,
00:15:50.95\00:15:52.96
employers rather
are more likely to say,
00:15:52.97\00:15:55.67
well if you don't
do what I say go out.
00:15:55.68\00:15:57.42
And I'm sure you're seeing more
cases of this discrimination.
00:15:57.43\00:16:03.55
I'm buried Lincoln. I'm weary,
I'm buried, we're overwhelmed
00:16:03.56\00:16:07.78
with a number of people
not just Seventh-day Adventists
00:16:07.79\00:16:10.99
but of many faiths
who are being fired
00:16:11.00\00:16:14.85
because of their religion.
00:16:14.86\00:16:17.24
People being fired for
their religious expression,
00:16:17.25\00:16:20.30
but especially if
you can't work 24/7,
00:16:20.31\00:16:23.54
there's a problems
in the hiring process.
00:16:24.85\00:16:27.07
Increasingly we're
seeing online applications.
00:16:27.08\00:16:30.94
We saw one where
if you didn't say yes,
00:16:30.95\00:16:33.38
you know, are
you available 24/7?
00:16:33.39\00:16:35.41
The application
program terminated. Yeah.
00:16:35.42\00:16:38.02
You were terminated.
00:16:38.03\00:16:39.35
Yeah, Will Matus refined
this but I think it's spreading.
00:16:39.36\00:16:42.29
To a fine art. Yeah,
and it's turning back,
00:16:42.30\00:16:45.20
it in my view Labor
Laws up to a century ago
00:16:45.21\00:16:50.45
not just
threatening people's religious
00:16:50.46\00:16:52.53
accommodation but now, now....
00:16:52.54\00:16:54.05
People of any faith, if
you wanted to go to church,
00:16:54.06\00:16:56.25
I don't care, if it's
Friday, if it's Saturday,
00:16:56.26\00:16:59.14
if it's Sunday.
00:16:59.15\00:17:00.16
If you want to be a part
of a regular weekly worship
00:17:00.17\00:17:02.74
service more and more companies
will refuse to hire you
00:17:02.75\00:17:06.63
or will fire you.
00:17:06.64\00:17:07.91
Yeah. It's
outrageous, we think we have
00:17:07.92\00:17:10.17
religious
freedom in this country.
00:17:10.18\00:17:11.75
And we can't even keep our
jobs and practice our faith.
00:17:11.76\00:17:16.10
Well, this country is codified
religious freedom very nicely.
00:17:16.11\00:17:19.72
But there's always
been a tension between that
00:17:19.73\00:17:22.18
and business interest, because
this is a capitalist country,
00:17:22.19\00:17:24.98
apart from a Democratic
Representative Government
00:17:24.99\00:17:28.95
but it's founded on capitalism.
00:17:28.96\00:17:30.67
Isn't that the religion of
the Public Religion of America,
00:17:30.68\00:17:33.89
there's the almighty dollar?
00:17:33.90\00:17:35.28
We're getting into philosophy.
00:17:35.29\00:17:36.43
Now for a number of years
the Seventh-day Adventist...
00:17:37.75\00:17:39.41
Protestant work ethic.
00:17:39.42\00:17:40.57
The Seventh-day
Adventist church has expended
00:17:40.58\00:17:42.49
a lot of energy and
direct expense through,
00:17:42.50\00:17:46.31
through employees in trying
to argue with the coalition.
00:17:46.32\00:17:49.43
Now I think of
a 50 other groups.
00:17:49.44\00:17:51.27
Right. For I think
about six, seven years now,
00:17:51.28\00:17:54.02
for the work place is called a
Workplace Religious Freedom Act.
00:17:54.03\00:17:57.20
I have to say, it's not
going anywhere very quickly
00:17:57.21\00:18:00.67
on a federal level but
did you want to discuss
00:18:00.68\00:18:03.07
this because it seems
to me this is more needed
00:18:03.08\00:18:04.84
than ever before.
00:18:04.85\00:18:06.04
It is crucially
needed that we have
00:18:06.05\00:18:08.91
the Workplace
Religious Freedom Act.
00:18:08.92\00:18:10.41
And frankly because
we've not had much success
00:18:10.42\00:18:14.61
convincing Congress.
00:18:14.62\00:18:16.38
There has been more
and more energy devoted
00:18:16.39\00:18:18.60
to taking a new
look at State Laws
00:18:18.61\00:18:21.25
and tweaking State
Laws to make them stronger.
00:18:21.26\00:18:24.56
And that will
work in some states,
00:18:24.57\00:18:27.21
it won't work universally.
00:18:27.22\00:18:28.97
But the law generally provides
for what's known as a reasonable
00:18:28.98\00:18:35.28
accommodation short
of an undue hardship.
00:18:35.29\00:18:38.17
Well, that's a fine
balance except the Supreme Court
00:18:38.18\00:18:41.05
going back to a TWA
case in 1977 neutered
00:18:41.06\00:18:46.40
the undue hardship requirement
00:18:46.41\00:18:48.00
and said it really
doesn't amount to very much.
00:18:48.01\00:18:50.94
Any, any sort of
hardship really is enough
00:18:50.95\00:18:55.16
for the company to deny
the religious accommodation.
00:18:55.17\00:18:58.51
And so this
proposed Legislation,
00:18:58.52\00:19:01.88
the Workplace
Religious Freedom Act
00:19:01.89\00:19:04.35
would turn the
obligation the other way round.
00:19:04.36\00:19:07.10
That you get it
unless they could show why...
00:19:07.11\00:19:09.81
A genuine, the burden
ought to be on the company
00:19:09.82\00:19:14.22
to provide you the
accommodation unless it would be
00:19:14.23\00:19:17.93
a real hardship, significant
difficulty or expense.
00:19:17.94\00:19:22.00
That's what the standard
should be, that standard
00:19:22.01\00:19:25.04
was written into the
Americans with Disabilities Act.
00:19:25.05\00:19:27.97
And it has meant that literally
00:19:27.98\00:19:30.55
thousands and
thousands of Americans
00:19:30.56\00:19:32.75
with various disabilities
have been able to either obtain
00:19:32.76\00:19:36.79
or retain jobs that they
would otherwise have lost.
00:19:36.80\00:19:41.46
As I've seem some of the cases,
00:19:41.47\00:19:43.56
it seems to me
they're very similar
00:19:43.57\00:19:44.90
to this post office.
00:19:44.91\00:19:45.88
Often an employer
will, will accommodate say
00:19:45.89\00:19:51.78
Seventh-day Adventist
who want Sabbath's off.
00:19:51.79\00:19:53.53
They will give
them one, or maybe two,
00:19:53.54\00:19:55.84
or three Sabbath's
off but not the others.
00:19:55.85\00:19:58.13
Now, if that's your
principle, if that's your,
00:19:58.14\00:20:00.77
your deeply held conviction.
00:20:00.78\00:20:03.09
It's really not helping
you much to give you some,
00:20:03.10\00:20:05.45
right, as the issue is,
is your overall practice,
00:20:05.46\00:20:09.10
it isn't, you know,
it's not, like, like the view
00:20:09.11\00:20:13.07
that the Catholics have
storing up made in heaven,
00:20:13.08\00:20:15.28
you know, with some indulgences.
00:20:15.29\00:20:16.76
Now, you have to obey God,
God gives requirements for...
00:20:16.77\00:20:20.92
practice of religion
and now you worship Him.
00:20:22.48\00:20:24.54
And He doesn't say, you
know, honor me a little bit here
00:20:24.55\00:20:27.24
but you can
dishonor me another time,
00:20:27.25\00:20:28.89
so they have consistently.
00:20:28.90\00:20:30.56
We, first of all, we have,
we have a, an illusion that
00:20:30.57\00:20:34.53
somewhere in large
companies, somebody actually
00:20:34.54\00:20:38.45
understands the law.
00:20:38.46\00:20:39.73
For the most part
that simply not true.
00:20:39.74\00:20:42.30
I've taken the testimony of
human resources professionals,
00:20:42.31\00:20:47.14
and I've asked
them, have you ever had
00:20:47.15\00:20:49.33
any training on religion,
religious discrimination
00:20:49.34\00:20:51.88
or religious accommodation?
00:20:51.89\00:20:52.90
No. Do you have any
books that you refer
00:20:52.91\00:20:56.24
to when this problem arose?
00:20:56.25\00:20:57.85
Did you consult with anything?
00:20:57.86\00:20:59.67
No. so, they don't
consult with their lawyers,
00:20:59.68\00:21:02.59
they don't have the manuals
and the books to tell them
00:21:02.60\00:21:06.16
what they're supposed to do.
00:21:06.17\00:21:07.35
They have no clue, and
so companies typically think
00:21:07.36\00:21:10.76
well reasonable
accommodation, okay, that means,
00:21:10.77\00:21:13.48
we can give you off
sometimes on Saturday
00:21:13.49\00:21:16.38
but we don't have to
give you every Saturday off
00:21:16.39\00:21:18.50
that would be
unreasonable in their mind.
00:21:18.51\00:21:20.86
And this is what they're doing,
00:21:20.87\00:21:22.09
this is what I
was trying to explain.
00:21:22.10\00:21:23.07
Exactly, exactly.
00:21:23.08\00:21:24.30
And it's, and it may
even if it's well intentioned,
00:21:24.31\00:21:26.28
it's not really giving the
accommodation that should be.
00:21:26.29\00:21:29.68
Now look, the political
problem is very basic, okay.
00:21:29.69\00:21:33.97
The Republicans for all
that they mouth off about,
00:21:33.98\00:21:38.35
you know, being family
values and pro-religion,
00:21:38.36\00:21:42.69
they're in the
pocket of business
00:21:42.70\00:21:44.85
and they will
sacrifice religion.
00:21:44.86\00:21:47.97
It is so. Okay, you
can say whatever you want,
00:21:47.98\00:21:51.58
they'll put business interest
ahead of religious interest
00:21:51.59\00:21:54.26
every time.
00:21:54.27\00:21:55.24
The Democrats on the
other hand, you know,
00:21:55.25\00:21:58.14
they have expressed
awareness of the need
00:21:58.15\00:22:01.92
to build bridges with the
faith community but guess what?
00:22:01.93\00:22:04.94
They don't, you know,
they professed to be in favor
00:22:04.95\00:22:07.50
of civil rights, except
for religious freedom rights.
00:22:07.51\00:22:10.53
So, you know,
we've had sponsorship
00:22:10.54\00:22:13.25
from both parties but
the reality is neither
00:22:13.26\00:22:15.88
party cares enough.
00:22:15.89\00:22:17.32
Well, there you're
getting to the nitty-gritty,
00:22:17.33\00:22:19.04
and I've said on
this program before that
00:22:19.05\00:22:21.19
the Workplace
Religious Freedom Act,
00:22:21.20\00:22:22.85
didn't just have a big
coalition of religious groups
00:22:24.10\00:22:26.80
pushing it, it had
good bipartisan support.
00:22:26.81\00:22:29.27
It has had very strongly.
00:22:29.28\00:22:30.77
And for a long time, I couldn't
figure why doesn't they go
00:22:30.78\00:22:32.63
through we?
00:22:32.64\00:22:33.79
And these were not just,
you know, middle or lower level
00:22:33.80\00:22:36.73
ranking people, they were
the top party leaders, Lincoln.
00:22:36.74\00:22:38.98
I think you put your finger on
it that they have some interest
00:22:38.99\00:22:43.16
but not a conviction to follow
through on it on both parties.
00:22:43.17\00:22:45.84
Probably the most significant
Supreme Court decision
00:22:45.85\00:22:49.70
in recent memory was a
case called Citizens United
00:22:49.71\00:22:52.96
that held the
corporations or persons,
00:22:52.97\00:22:56.40
their free speech
rights are protected
00:22:56.41\00:22:58.69
and therefore they
can donate as much money
00:22:58.70\00:23:00.98
as they want to
political campaigns.
00:23:00.99\00:23:03.55
What the Supreme Court did, was
essentially validate corporate
00:23:03.56\00:23:08.43
ownership of our
political system.
00:23:08.44\00:23:10.62
That's the most unfortunate
decision of the Supreme Court
00:23:10.63\00:23:14.01
in recent years in my view.
00:23:14.02\00:23:15.19
It is very unfortunate
decision, you bet, you know,
00:23:15.20\00:23:20.36
the old line from
Rowan and Martin's Laugh,
00:23:20.37\00:23:23.18
and you bet your sweet
bippy that our politicians
00:23:23.19\00:23:25.98
are bought and paid for, by
the large corporate interest.
00:23:25.99\00:23:29.19
And if you think they
can afford to, to you know,
00:23:29.20\00:23:33.42
counter those interests
and they need particular very,
00:23:33.43\00:23:37.55
very difficult.
00:23:37.56\00:23:38.82
You know, as we're
sitting here today,
00:23:38.83\00:23:40.34
the Senate next, the
efforts to reign in tax benefits
00:23:40.35\00:23:46.30
for the big oil companies that
are hurting us with you know,
00:23:46.31\00:23:51.48
gouging us with their
prices at the gas pump.
00:23:51.49\00:23:55.13
And we're subsidizing them
to gouge us, that is so insane.
00:23:55.14\00:24:00.61
Yeah, these are the
matter of public policy
00:24:00.62\00:24:02.53
that we may or may not
differ with on this program.
00:24:02.54\00:24:05.59
But when you compare it
to what's done on religion,
00:24:05.60\00:24:08.21
I think there it's very telling.
00:24:08.22\00:24:09.52
There's a clearly
demonstrated lack of concern
00:24:11.65\00:24:15.20
about the deep moral
issue of religious accommodation
00:24:15.21\00:24:18.11
and yet business
interest sort of trump.
00:24:18.12\00:24:20.74
And that's unfortunate
regardless of whether or not
00:24:20.75\00:24:23.44
business controls
the government maybe
00:24:24.73\00:24:26.28
that's the
choice of the citizenry,
00:24:26.29\00:24:27.82
maybe that's the
way it always has been.
00:24:27.83\00:24:29.35
But it's wrong when,
when, when people's convictions
00:24:29.36\00:24:32.55
are sort of swept aside
in favor of a big of money
00:24:32.56\00:24:35.62
and favor shown else where.
00:24:35.63\00:24:37.56
You know, at the risk of
appearing two partisan here
00:24:37.57\00:24:42.25
But we're not partisan, we need
00:24:42.26\00:24:43.76
Well, we, we, no we we're not.
00:24:43.77\00:24:46.00
To equal opportunity criticizes.
Criticize both the parties.
00:24:46.01\00:24:49.48
It's not the group
party, it's a matter of
00:24:49.49\00:24:50.95
and we wouldn't even
have this conversation perhaps
00:24:50.96\00:24:53.74
in some other countries,
whether you have a country
00:24:53.75\00:24:56.37
as the United States
that has a certain history
00:24:56.38\00:24:59.61
but then in it's founding
document, the constitution,
00:24:59.62\00:25:02.96
it's enshrined to principle,
not just a religious worship
00:25:02.97\00:25:08.17
and that's another
program we heard the President
00:25:08.18\00:25:11.18
saying in our
freedom of worship.
00:25:11.19\00:25:12.56
Now, Religious Liberty
means that the government
00:25:12.57\00:25:15.05
will not fund it and
you're free in your practice
00:25:15.06\00:25:17.44
of that religion.
00:25:17.45\00:25:18.60
But look, you pointed
out maybe, you know, maybe,
00:25:18.61\00:25:20.98
we wanted this
way as far as having
00:25:20.99\00:25:23.05
corporate domination in America.
00:25:23.06\00:25:25.13
And you know, we've always
had this philosophy, you know,
00:25:25.14\00:25:28.18
what's good for General
Motors is good for America that,
00:25:28.19\00:25:30.65
that we want to do
what's good for big business.
00:25:30.66\00:25:33.86
I've wondered, well how it
is, that right on the heels
00:25:33.87\00:25:38.41
of Wall Street
ripping off Main Street
00:25:38.42\00:25:41.42
and trashing our economy
that we've a populist movement
00:25:41.43\00:25:45.71
known as the Tea Party that's
essentially doing the bidding
00:25:45.72\00:25:49.09
of Wall Street at the expense
of their own self interest.
00:25:49.10\00:25:53.22
And what I've come to understand
is it there is a very strong
00:25:53.23\00:25:57.77
affinity in American
religion for capitalism
00:25:57.78\00:26:01.53
as an expression of American
as part of his religion.
00:26:01.54\00:26:04.33
It's a whole different
program and I think that's a
00:26:04.34\00:26:05.72
great fallacy, a grand
fallacy that people bought into.
00:26:05.73\00:26:08.59
But somehow
Capitalism is Biblical.
00:26:09.78\00:26:11.73
Communism, Capitalism,
right, Holisms, a man structures
00:26:11.74\00:26:15.78
some better than others
perhaps in a logical sense
00:26:15.79\00:26:18.22
or humanistic sense.
00:26:18.23\00:26:19.31
But God's system, the
system of freedom of conscience
00:26:19.32\00:26:22.60
is above all of
them and it should trump.
00:26:22.61\00:26:24.28
Liberty of conscience should
trump but sadly it doesn't.
00:26:24.29\00:26:28.47
And the freedom of
workers to practice their faith
00:26:28.48\00:26:32.20
and keep their
jobs has been sacrificed
00:26:32.21\00:26:35.22
to the interest of corporations.
00:26:35.23\00:26:36.80
And frankly this is the
critical religious freedom issue
00:26:36.81\00:26:41.41
in America today, is the rights
of workers to keep their faith
00:26:41.42\00:26:45.84
Workplace Religious Freedom.
00:26:45.85\00:26:47.30
The Bible gives a
number of clear markers that
00:26:49.49\00:26:52.41
we would expect to see
at the very end of time
00:26:52.42\00:26:54.60
just before the
return of Jesus Christ.
00:26:54.61\00:26:56.88
One of those predictions is
for massive economic collapse.
00:26:56.89\00:27:01.22
And I don't know
about you but what we saw
00:27:01.23\00:27:03.92
a couple of years ago
when the global economy took
00:27:03.93\00:27:06.96
a more than a nosedive, a
swan dive off the precipice.
00:27:06.97\00:27:11.34
That economic collapse has
put a great deal of tension
00:27:12.56\00:27:16.09
between capital and labor.
00:27:16.10\00:27:18.07
It has put a great
deal of stress on those
00:27:18.08\00:27:21.04
in the
workplace, who're attempting
00:27:21.05\00:27:22.42
to stand for their faith.
00:27:22.43\00:27:24.30
Even though the law
may defend them as it does
00:27:24.31\00:27:27.40
in the United
States in particular.
00:27:27.41\00:27:28.99
There's often social pressures,
there's often marginalization
00:27:29.00\00:27:32.26
and the threat that, yes
indeed you may loose your job
00:27:32.27\00:27:36.42
because of your religious faith.
00:27:36.43\00:27:38.01
Somehow, we need to look
to God's spirit as well as
00:27:38.02\00:27:42.34
to the law.
00:27:42.35\00:27:43.58
And realize that it's
important to win this battle,
00:27:43.59\00:27:46.58
it's important
to remain faithful.
00:27:46.59\00:27:48.61
It is not just a
passing phase, this is something
00:27:48.62\00:27:52.28
that may indeed characterize
capital and labor issues
00:27:52.29\00:27:56.82
right until the
very end of time.
00:27:56.83\00:27:58.58
And as always through the ages,
00:27:58.59\00:28:00.95
it's important for
God's people, people of faith,
00:28:00.96\00:28:04.05
to remain faithful and true.
00:28:04.06\00:28:05.90
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:07.38\00:28:10.04