Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program that
brings you up to date news,
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views, information and
discussion on religious
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Liberty events around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
I'm Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the
program is Greg Hamilton.
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Greg, your among other jobs
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you're the
Director or the President
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of the Northwest
Religious Liberty Association.
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You do a
fantastic job in that area.
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We work hard to be effective.
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Not just with our
Seventh-day Adventist membership
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who you service for
religious liberty concerns.
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But in your dealings
with State Government,
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and now particularly
in the State of Oregon.
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You've had some
fantastic context of light.
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Maybe you want to
show our viewers a story
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that we ran
recently in Liberty Magazine.
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Well, it's a
story about the repeal
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of the religious dress bill
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or the prohibition
against religious dress,
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that it was a law that emanated
or began clear back in 1923
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and it was
influenced by the Ku Klux Klan,
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which believed
back then that ....
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Or white Christian America.
Or White Protestant America.
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That, that Communism
will infiltrate itself
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through religious institutions,
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specifically Catholic
Religious Institutions.
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Which I look back
at today and I said,
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I say to myself how? I mean
it seems totally far fetched,
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but nevertheless
that's what they believe.
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Well, they, the Ku Klux
Klan proceeded communism.
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They were always
White Protestant America.
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So, they were reflexly opposed
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to peripheral or
cast or fellowship.
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And it was American
exceptionalism run amok,
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because it really
didn't truly allow
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for true religious
freedom in America,
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which included
religious freedom for Catholics
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which they seem to
reject. Absolutely.
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So, there was a
case that when clear
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the Supreme Court called Pierce.
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Governor Pierce of
Oregon Vs Society of Sisters
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it was a Catholic
school in Portland.
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And that case went all
the way to US Supreme Court
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and in that case
they tried to outlaw
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all private religious schools.
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At then a ninth
to nothing decision
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Supreme Court says you're nuts.
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And rejected it and said
this is unconstitutional,
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so praise the Lord for that.
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But with that
there was a provision,
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a statute that
remained on the books
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that was on the
books in most states.
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And over 87 years most of the
states repealed those statutes
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and that was a prohibition
of wearing any religious dress
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while teaching in public school,
by public school teachers.
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And this was
significant because what it did
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is not only
disallow the teachers
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to wear Religious Garb.
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But it basically put forward
an extreme separation of church
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and state standard that,
that discriminated against
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Muslims from
wearing their hijab and,
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and from wearing their religious
burqas, a religion dress.
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In years, in recent
years, this has become obvious.
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In recent years
it became obvious.
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The goal of that
legislation was Catholic nuns.
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Nuns and priests to
some degree I think?
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But today that's,
that's what hit the wall
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in terms of court cases.
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Oregon was only
one of three states
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that still had
that statute left.
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Okay Nebraska,
Pennsylvania and Oregon,
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Pennsylvania is
not as problematic,
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Nebraska is pretty
bad and Oregon's was bad.
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But what happened
was when we passed
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the Oregon Work Place
Religious Freedom Act in 2009,
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in working with
speaker of the house Dave Hunt
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for the state of Oregon
who is now the Majority Leader
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for the Democratic Party.
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We have the privilege
of honoring him at a recent
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Liberty Insider in
Washington DC last year.
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In Washington DC last year,
yes and I thank you for that.
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And he
appreciates that to this day.
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But when it comes to the Oregon
Work Place Religious Freedom Act
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there was a provision
at the end of the bill
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that they had to keep in there.
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It was this very statute,
this prohibition against
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wearing religious
dress in public schools
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by public school teachers.
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If we had, if we
had not included that,
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the bill would have
been unconstitutional,
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the ACIU would've
proclaimed it as such
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and our Oregon
Workplace Religious Freedom Act
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would not have passed.
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So, we had to kill
two birds with one stone
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or maybe with two
stones. Not kill him, yeah.
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Free too but,
yes they're free too,
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there you go, that's
better. They're freeing too but.
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Better analogy,
but the point is,
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is that then we pledge to
go right back to the table
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and work with
religious minorities
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including religious majorities,
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who maybe
weren't as effected by it
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such as Christians
but clearly Hindus,
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Jews wear yamakas and Muslims
were deeply effected by this.
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And Sikhs also
were heavily involved in
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getting this statute repealed.
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So, we all came together
as a religious community
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for the whole
state, we helped spear that
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with along with
Ecumenical Ministries of Oregon.
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The National Sikh
Organization of Washington DC,
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we worked with the Muslim
Trust Organization in Portland
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which is the largest
Muslims Organization there
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with Wajdi and
the Attorney Saba.
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And that was fun
working with them and. And....
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It was very effective wasn't it?
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Yes, and also our Jewish
friends and our Hindu friends
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and also Catholics,
evangelical Protestants.
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We all came
together united together
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and the Governor
gladly signed it.
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And, but in the process he said,
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he bit concerned
before he signed it was that
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we make sure that we
put in policy guidelines
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for each public school district
and in each public school.
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So, they invited me to
serve with some attorneys,
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including some ACIU Attorneys
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and heads of education in
the state, to state level,
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the Bureau of
Labor and Industries,
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the Labor Department is one
that headed up these meetings
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and we crafted out policy.
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Attorney Steven Green
from Willamette school of law,
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is the one that basically
hammered of the Language
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but in that policy meeting
there were some in the group
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and I won't name
names or organizations,
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that tried to steer it away form
the original intent of the bill.
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Okay, that would have
essentially destroyed it
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and would have
brought it up back,
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back to the courts that
would have automatically
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triggered it back to
the courts for them to say
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what you're doing
is unconstitutional.
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Was that in their
intend or were they just...
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I think it was their intent,
I think it was their intent
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and I made several
repeals and speeches.
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Steve Green and I
saw it the same way
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and fortunately
thank God for Steve Green.
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He rewrote
several provisions of it,
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there were other contributions
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by other people
that were very important.
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So, the Lord
brought me into a room
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where I can actually establish
State Policy for public schools,
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it was very exciting. So,
out of this ten year effort
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for Oregon Work Place
Religious Freedom Act,
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came this other bill effort
that coincided the next year
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and we did it in one month.
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We had a one month
short session of February
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to get this bill passed,
it seem like an impossibility,
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in fact many legislators
got up and when the bill was
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on the house
floor, the senate floor.
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They said, we
need to delay this.
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We need a better
look at this bill
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and to study it
longer for the more,
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the full session in 2011,
and speaker Dave Hunt says,
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you're just gonna
talk over the same things
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that you already know about.
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They just gonna give you
more time to kill the bill.
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This is an absolutely
necessary to reverse the ugly,
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the stain of history of
this prohibition against
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religious dress
on religious people.
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This violates the free exercise
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of religion
according to the constitution.
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You would have
thought, one would have thought
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that this would be a
fairly non controversial thing,
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but you did need to have allies,
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you did need to
push consistently
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toward it and it
succeeded in that.
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If we didn't handle this,
if we hadn't have repealed it.
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We received a letter from
the department of justice okay,
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from Obama's head of
the justice department
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saying that they were
going to look into this
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and make sure this was over
returned from the Federal level.
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So, we were glad that we're
able to handle our own business
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and clean up our own
books there in Oregon.
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Now, you alluded before to the
workplace religious free act.
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I'm trying to
think what the term was
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at the state level, same title.
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We call it ORWRFA, I said
if ORFA, we call it or WRFA.
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Well, the
Seventh-day Adventist church
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in coalition with about
thirty or fifty as many as
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fifty other churches and
civil rights groups has been
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trying to push that
through at the Federal level?
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Yes, but many, many
years with not much success.
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Yes, but you, you
got a similar version
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through at the state level.
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Well, and the reason why
we did is we eliminated the,
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the kitchen sink
approach to a bill.
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I mean, that was
basically the way
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the original federal bill was.
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This idea that we give
benefits to pharmacists
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who want to be exempt
from dispensing the plan B pill
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for abortions and
so on and so forth.
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And we understood that,
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we were for a
comprehensive bill.
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But we decided
that legislatively,
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politically we
couldn't get it pass that way,
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we had to face
political realities
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with a strongly democratically
controlled house incident
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and a strong
democratic governor,
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there is no way on earth that
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we could get
something like that passed.
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So, we had to look
up political realities,
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get rid of that
kitchen sink language,
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narrow it down to
just religious holy days,
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okay like Sabbath
keeping or Sunday keeping
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or Friday prayers for Muslims.
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This is in the work place
again, yes, in the work place.
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And, and also when it
came to religious dress
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in the work place, now
that's the general work place
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not public schools that's
why we had to do that gabbery
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appeal bill
following that the next year,
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because it didn't
effect public schools
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and you think we could
have lump that all in one bill?
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But that's what we got fought
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by the American
Civil Liberties Union.
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So, we had to approach
it in a two step process
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and it flummox the ACLU.
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It was a tactic that,
that speaker of the house
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Dave Hunt put forward,
he was a American Baptist.
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I think was truly a
champion for religious freedom,
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called for such a time as this.
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I mean I think the
Lord has truly led him to be
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a real champion
for religious freedom
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at the Oregon Legislature.
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And I wish that we as
Religious Liberty program
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nationwide could
foster that more fully
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at the State Legislature,
finding out who those people
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are that are
balanced, not far right wing
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extreme religious right or left.
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You know and Dave,
that's what Dave Hunt was.
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He was bound...
00:10:58.68\00:10:59.65
North American
Religious Liberty Association
00:10:59.66\00:11:01.19
took an action
recently to do that.
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It's the state level's
problem. Whatever possible.
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We urged the
North American division
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to establish
government relations programs
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in every state in United States
and every province in Canada
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and also in
Bermuda. And the reason being
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is because we
only have essentially
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six bonafide
government relations programs
00:11:19.60\00:11:22.04
in the North American division.
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That means, think about that,
that means forty four states
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with no
government relations for us.
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Which government, Canada
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and the United
States and Bermuda.
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Well, I'm speaking just
the United States right now,
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states, out of fifty states.
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But when you say the
North American Division
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some of our
viewers might not know.
00:11:34.58\00:11:35.90
That's true. The
area you're talking about.
00:11:35.91\00:11:36.88
Okay. Administratively is Canada
00:11:36.89\00:11:38.96
and United States and Bermuda,
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but you're really narrowing it
even more in the United States.
00:11:40.19\00:11:42.46
In the United States
we have fifty states.
00:11:42.47\00:11:44.62
In the United States
we only have six bonafide
00:11:44.63\00:11:47.00
Government
Relations Programs okay.
00:11:47.01\00:11:48.99
We need more. And
forty-four without,
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we have, we have eight
in the Southern Union area,
00:11:51.34\00:11:55.24
eight states that have programs
that are just started okay
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and they're in the
process of being more
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organized and better trained.
00:12:01.87\00:12:03.90
But what our program is
a Capital Pastor Program
00:12:03.91\00:12:07.17
where we ask conference
presidents to cooperate with us
00:12:07.18\00:12:11.21
in having a pastor who happens
to serve at a capital church
00:12:11.22\00:12:16.47
have that built into
the actual resume job
00:12:16.48\00:12:20.39
description for that church.
00:12:20.40\00:12:22.18
So he takes a
particular interest
00:12:22.19\00:12:23.74
in connecting
with the legislature.
00:12:23.75\00:12:25.49
No, why he doesn't have
to look over his shoulder
00:12:25.50\00:12:26.83
as to whether he is
doing evangelism or whatever.
00:12:26.84\00:12:28.89
And we find that
proactive pastors
00:12:28.90\00:12:30.95
who were really good
at doing many things well,
00:12:30.96\00:12:34.08
work well in those situations.
00:12:34.09\00:12:35.86
It's a wonderful
opportunity to witness I think
00:12:35.87\00:12:37.90
and communicate
our Religious Liberty
00:12:37.91\00:12:41.02
and a particular churches
view point to the Legislators.
00:12:41.03\00:12:44.30
We'll be back
after a short break
00:12:44.31\00:12:46.68
to continue with Greg
Hamilton and discussing how he
00:12:46.69\00:12:51.24
in his area and
church leaders everywhere
00:12:51.25\00:12:53.27
can communicate
with government leaders.
00:12:53.28\00:12:55.30
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:13:03.63\00:13:07.42
much less publish a
magazine, but this year Liberty,
00:13:07.43\00:13:11.31
the Seventh-day Adventist
voice of religious freedom,
00:13:11.32\00:13:13.97
celebrates one hundred years
of doing what it does best,
00:13:13.98\00:13:17.64
collecting,
analyzing, and reporting the ebb
00:13:17.65\00:13:20.73
and flow of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:20.74\00:13:23.74
Issue after issue.
00:13:23.75\00:13:25.60
Liberty has taken on
the tough assignments,
00:13:25.61\00:13:28.01
tracking down
threats to religious freedom
00:13:28.02\00:13:30.00
and exposing the
work of the devil
00:13:30.01\00:13:31.65
in every corner of the globe.
00:13:31.66\00:13:33.91
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:33.92\00:13:36.55
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:13:36.56\00:13:39.30
sequestered within the
church community itself
00:13:39.31\00:13:41.58
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:41.59\00:13:44.70
Liberty exists for one
purpose to help God's people
00:13:44.71\00:13:48.30
maintain that all important
separation of Church and State,
00:13:48.31\00:13:52.04
while recognizing the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:52.05\00:13:55.97
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:13:55.98\00:13:58.58
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:13:58.59\00:14:02.09
Thanks to the
inspired leadership
00:14:02.10\00:14:03.81
of a long line of
dedicated Adventist Editors,
00:14:03.82\00:14:06.50
three of whom represent
almost half of the publications
00:14:06.51\00:14:08.95
existence and the foresight of
a little woman from New England.
00:14:08.96\00:14:13.07
One hundred years of struggle,
one hundred years of victories,
00:14:13.08\00:14:17.44
religious
freedom isn't just about
00:14:17.45\00:14:19.50
political machines
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:19.51\00:14:22.32
It's about people fighting
for the right to serve the God
00:14:22.33\00:14:26.33
they love as their hearts
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:26.34\00:14:30.63
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:14:30.64\00:14:32.62
of Seventh-Day
Adventists everywhere.
00:14:32.63\00:14:34.79
Liberty will
continue to accomplish
00:14:34.80\00:14:36.92
its work of
providing timely information,
00:14:36.93\00:14:39.13
spirit filled inspiration,
and heaven sent encouragement
00:14:39.14\00:14:42.31
to all who long to live and
work in a world bound together
00:14:42.32\00:14:47.18
by the God ordained
bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:47.19\00:14:51.49
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:15:01.38\00:15:03.30
Before the break
with guest Greg Hamilton,
00:15:03.31\00:15:06.31
we were talking about, in
fact we were almost celebrating,
00:15:06.32\00:15:10.34
some of the
fantastic stuffs that happened
00:15:10.35\00:15:12.09
in your area and
particularly in Oregon,
00:15:12.10\00:15:14.79
with the passage of this
religious garb legislation
00:15:14.80\00:15:18.81
and then the Workplace Religious
Freedom Act for Oregon.
00:15:18.82\00:15:23.60
What I really would like
to talk as we go on from this,
00:15:23.61\00:15:26.47
is explain a little bit to
our viewers that difference
00:15:26.48\00:15:29.75
between what
not on this program,
00:15:29.76\00:15:31.88
this particular
segment but on this program
00:15:31.89\00:15:34.50
before we condemned
syncretistic religion
00:15:34.51\00:15:37.25
and ecumenical
movement that sort of blends
00:15:37.26\00:15:40.37
all religions
together and compromises.
00:15:40.38\00:15:42.71
We believe in having
an eucmenical spirit.
00:15:42.72\00:15:45.50
But it doesn't necessarily
mean that we've to join them
00:15:45.51\00:15:49.22
on numerous issues, we
got to keep our integrity.
00:15:49.23\00:15:51.66
Yes, that's what
I want to bring out,
00:15:51.67\00:15:53.31
when we're in
coalition as you were
00:15:53.32\00:15:55.58
on the religious garb issue,
which is definitely something
00:15:55.59\00:15:59.55
that the freedom,
freedom of religion
00:15:59.56\00:16:01.33
and upholding the
constitution would come on,
00:16:01.34\00:16:03.55
we united there
on a common principle
00:16:03.56\00:16:06.21
that benefits all
and compromises nobody.
00:16:06.22\00:16:08.35
Yes. So, I think
00:16:08.36\00:16:10.08
it's our Christian
duty as well as our Charter
00:16:10.09\00:16:12.61
and Religious
Liberty to be involved
00:16:12.62\00:16:14.07
in the government relations.
00:16:14.08\00:16:15.37
Our purpose for government
relations is to provide
00:16:15.38\00:16:18.30
a public ministry that
literally in the public eye
00:16:18.31\00:16:22.21
and in the public
realm so to speak,
00:16:22.22\00:16:26.34
defends and advances
Religious Freedom for all
00:16:26.35\00:16:29.34
people of faith, not just
for Seventh-day Adventists.
00:16:29.35\00:16:31.59
If we were just to
represent our church.
00:16:31.60\00:16:34.86
in fact I'll never
forget, I'll never forget there,
00:16:34.87\00:16:37.63
I went to the Oregon
Legislature thirteen years ago,
00:16:37.64\00:16:40.34
David Leslie, I met him
at the Oregon Legislature
00:16:40.35\00:16:42.66
and gave him my
business card and he says
00:16:42.67\00:16:44.85
oh! so you're here to defend
00:16:44.86\00:16:47.30
the Religious Freedom
of Seventh-day Adventists.
00:16:47.31\00:16:49.01
I said no, we're here to
defend the Religious Freedom of
00:16:49.02\00:16:52.26
all religions in
the state of Oregon.
00:16:52.27\00:16:54.88
And I said that's
our mission and purpose,
00:16:54.89\00:16:57.48
he says really, well
that's essentials our purpose
00:16:57.49\00:17:00.00
is to defend religious
freedom and civil rights.
00:17:00.01\00:17:02.64
so we've had a common,
00:17:02.65\00:17:04.83
friendly working
relationship ever since.
00:17:04.84\00:17:06.95
So, that's been a blessing
and we've to remember that
00:17:06.96\00:17:10.29
if we're just here to
defend Religious Freedom
00:17:10.30\00:17:13.04
for Seventh-day Adventists
alone and Christians alone,
00:17:13.05\00:17:16.54
okay then we're forgetting that
00:17:16.55\00:17:18.67
if we do not defend the
rights of religious minorities
00:17:18.68\00:17:22.08
then we may be next. Right.
00:17:22.09\00:17:25.44
And that's the problem
that I see is that there is
00:17:25.45\00:17:28.03
so much this idea of Religious
freedom is being defined
00:17:28.04\00:17:31.48
and classified by
harmful religious elements.
00:17:31.49\00:17:36.16
That essentially seeks to narrow
that definition to only them
00:17:36.17\00:17:40.44
and not certain
religious minorities.
00:17:40.45\00:17:42.37
In fact if you think about it,
if we were doing what you said
00:17:42.38\00:17:44.55
like just pushing to
get a law to benefit us
00:17:44.56\00:17:47.36
or our members in, in a
certain work place situation.
00:17:47.37\00:17:50.56
If we were pushing
that we got to threw
00:17:50.57\00:17:52.14
a certain administration,
and then later when
00:17:52.15\00:17:54.18
there is change
of administration,
00:17:54.19\00:17:55.37
another church would come
in and push to get this may be
00:17:55.38\00:17:59.09
and to get rid of ours.
Then it would be them against us
00:17:59.10\00:18:03.06
and who ever your patron is
00:18:03.07\00:18:04.53
and it would just full
apart into religious warfare.
00:18:04.54\00:18:06.89
That's why we have
to be non partisan.
00:18:06.90\00:18:08.29
Now, what I
mean by non partisan,
00:18:08.30\00:18:09.69
when we go about our
government relations services
00:18:09.70\00:18:12.52
with working with legislators.
Our Capo Pastors in Alaska,
00:18:12.53\00:18:16.14
Idaho, Montana,
Oregon, and Washington,
00:18:16.15\00:18:18.43
including our
Attorney our team of Attorneys.
00:18:18.44\00:18:20.73
Our goal is to make
sure that they understand
00:18:20.74\00:18:24.20
this is just business,
that we've got to go in there
00:18:24.21\00:18:27.81
and when we meet
with them we may be siding
00:18:27.82\00:18:30.45
on the right on
a particular issue.
00:18:30.46\00:18:32.83
Okay like the bill that
we had in the other program
00:18:32.84\00:18:35.34
I told you about,
Forced Unionization
00:18:35.35\00:18:37.47
of all Child Care Centers
including private and religious,
00:18:37.48\00:18:41.12
not just public and state owned.
00:18:41.13\00:18:43.30
So, when we went in
there we were definitely siding
00:18:43.31\00:18:46.14
with the right or
the Republican right
00:18:46.15\00:18:47.85
for the most part except
for five Republican Senators
00:18:47.86\00:18:51.47
that were dead set and
they were all Catholics
00:18:51.48\00:18:54.84
in supporting this
Forced Unionization Bill.
00:18:54.85\00:18:57.21
But we're issue oriented,
we could be siding with them
00:18:57.22\00:18:59.54
on that issue and
maybe with their political
00:18:59.55\00:19:02.26
counterparts on another issue.
00:19:02.27\00:19:03.87
Correct and so some call it
the strange bedfellows analogy,
00:19:03.88\00:19:08.13
but I don't like to use
that I really believe its called
00:19:08.14\00:19:10.35
standing up for what is
right because it is right.
00:19:10.36\00:19:12.41
Standing up for
truth and finding a broad
00:19:12.42\00:19:15.14
based coalition and even if
it's only a narrow coalition,
00:19:15.15\00:19:18.19
making your argument persuasive.
00:19:18.20\00:19:20.75
For not only a moral
cause but a just cause
00:19:20.76\00:19:23.76
and that's the
essence of what we do.
00:19:23.77\00:19:25.98
And the only complication I can
see not of what you did there,
00:19:25.99\00:19:29.37
but there was a case recently
00:19:29.38\00:19:32.31
in California
proposition 8. Oh! Yes.
00:19:32.32\00:19:34.48
Now, sometimes things
are little bit more complex
00:19:34.49\00:19:37.68
then just pushing our
view with a particular party.
00:19:37.69\00:19:40.43
Right. We could by promoting,
00:19:40.44\00:19:43.37
in that case it was
a moral view point on,
00:19:43.38\00:19:47.17
it was in a
larger context. Right.
00:19:47.18\00:19:49.01
By pushing that
particular thing,
00:19:49.02\00:19:50.58
I believe we're at
risk of inadvertently
00:19:50.59\00:19:53.54
empowering a larger agenda,
00:19:53.55\00:19:55.99
that was perhaps
more problematic for us.
00:19:56.00\00:20:01.86
but generally speaking what
you say is absolutely right to,
00:20:01.87\00:20:04.92
to put our view to any
party on this particular issue
00:20:04.93\00:20:09.91
is not being a bad fellow.
It's witnessing the power,
00:20:09.92\00:20:14.33
yes, what pulled in absolutely
as he got appeared before
00:20:14.34\00:20:19.83
Felix and Agrippa and
Caesar, that's our obligation.
00:20:19.84\00:20:23.83
Yeah, we've to be
careful of jumping
00:20:23.84\00:20:25.41
into things all hard,
we've to be careful pick
00:20:25.42\00:20:28.33
and choose our
issues very carefully.
00:20:28.34\00:20:30.41
And that's what we seek to
do, that's what we strive to do.
00:20:30.42\00:20:33.07
In our
government relations work,
00:20:33.08\00:20:35.88
one of the
things we strive to do
00:20:35.89\00:20:37.91
is to come to the
rescue of other religions even
00:20:37.92\00:20:40.84
if that single religion is,
that religion is singled out.
00:20:40.85\00:20:44.69
Let me give you an
example in Oregon again,
00:20:44.70\00:20:47.00
Bob Bestani, who used
to be, is retired since,
00:20:47.01\00:20:49.69
but I just loved
working with him.
00:20:49.70\00:20:51.65
He was the attorney and lobbyist
00:20:51.66\00:20:54.31
for the Oregon
Catholic Conference
00:20:54.32\00:20:55.88
that answered to
the US Conference
00:20:55.89\00:20:57.37
of Catholic
Bishops in Washington DC.
00:20:57.38\00:21:00.09
And there was a situation where,
it was right around after 9/11
00:21:00.10\00:21:04.51
and homeland security
bills were been proposed
00:21:04.52\00:21:06.81
by Governors all
across the nation
00:21:06.82\00:21:08.40
in different
states and all the states.
00:21:08.41\00:21:10.91
And it was no
different in Oregon,
00:21:10.92\00:21:12.95
the Governor
Kulongoski at the time said that
00:21:12.96\00:21:16.67
he put forward a bill
that basically allowed
00:21:16.68\00:21:21.36
the co-optation of all
private and religious schools
00:21:21.37\00:21:25.09
and churches and
gymnasiums and so on.
00:21:25.10\00:21:28.30
In case there is an
attack on the nation okay.
00:21:28.31\00:21:32.11
And in the bill though
it made no exemptions for,
00:21:32.12\00:21:36.74
especially for
Catholic schools and churches,
00:21:36.75\00:21:39.66
for the
performing of abortions okay,
00:21:39.67\00:21:42.77
for blood
transfusions that sort of thing.
00:21:42.78\00:21:45.69
Yet, it wanted that exemption.
00:21:45.70\00:21:48.05
And he said, I just
happen to walk into the capital.
00:21:48.06\00:21:50.86
I knew nothing about the bill,
00:21:50.87\00:21:52.15
should have known
about the bill but I didn't.
00:21:52.16\00:21:54.20
And he said are
you aware of this bill
00:21:54.21\00:21:56.59
it's just been popped in
on us, it's a surprise bill
00:21:56.60\00:22:00.05
that the
Governor has put forward
00:22:00.06\00:22:02.04
and they're having a hearing
00:22:02.05\00:22:04.24
in twenty minutes
and I need you there.
00:22:04.25\00:22:06.55
So he had a
chance to go through it?
00:22:06.56\00:22:07.98
He said, he said I
just found out about it.
00:22:07.99\00:22:09.26
I have no notes,
you have no notes,
00:22:09.27\00:22:11.78
but we're gonna
sign up to testify.
00:22:11.79\00:22:13.95
Bob was a strong Italian fellow,
00:22:13.96\00:22:16.17
but a fun fellow, I used to
have a lot of lunches with him.
00:22:16.18\00:22:18.34
And he was one of those
guys that can literally,
00:22:18.35\00:22:20.53
is so well respected
because he had worked there
00:22:20.54\00:22:21.97
at the Oregon Legislature
for like thirty years.
00:22:21.98\00:22:23.98
But he literally
blow by a receptionist
00:22:23.99\00:22:26.97
at a Legislature's office,
blow by a Legislative aid
00:22:26.98\00:22:30.14
and walk right in and even
open the door of a Legislator.
00:22:30.15\00:22:33.39
He was that well
respected, nobody said no to Bob
00:22:33.40\00:22:36.57
and he would march in and
basically tell the Legislator,
00:22:36.58\00:22:39.22
how high to jump or you know
00:22:39.23\00:22:41.27
he is the Queen
Esther of the court.
00:22:41.28\00:22:42.79
He basically gave
them their marching orders,
00:22:42.80\00:22:44.64
that's how powerful he was.
But on this particular occasion,
00:22:44.65\00:22:48.67
on this particular bill I saw
the light of what he was saying,
00:22:48.68\00:22:51.30
and so we testified it together.
00:22:51.31\00:22:53.17
And it was funny because
I'll never forget the chairman
00:22:53.18\00:22:55.90
and the vice chairman
of the committee hearing.
00:22:55.91\00:23:00.27
They said oh! A Catholic and an
Adventist testifying together.
00:23:00.28\00:23:05.94
They knew I was an Adventist,
the Legislators know that
00:23:05.95\00:23:07.97
I'm an Adventist
there. I don't hide that fact
00:23:07.98\00:23:09.81
even though we present ourselves
00:23:09.82\00:23:11.10
as the North West
Religious Liberty Association.
00:23:11.11\00:23:13.33
But we testified and they
said, wow! That is wonderful
00:23:13.34\00:23:18.84
to see that kind of harmony
and, and, and we didn't even
00:23:18.85\00:23:23.03
think about this, the
governor must not have
00:23:23.04\00:23:24.66
thought about that,
and when it came back
00:23:24.67\00:23:27.71
they tabled the bill,
they didn't even vote it out
00:23:27.72\00:23:29.94
of the
committee to go the floor.
00:23:29.95\00:23:31.39
They tabled it, it
came back rewritten through
00:23:31.40\00:23:34.18
Legislative counsel
with that exemption language,
00:23:34.19\00:23:37.49
and it protected
all people of faith
00:23:37.50\00:23:39.51
who happen to be
against blood transfusions
00:23:39.52\00:23:42.92
and other things like that.
00:23:42.93\00:23:44.29
And so opposed to
abortion and other things,
00:23:44.30\00:23:46.58
so it was a
wonderful opportunity.
00:23:46.59\00:23:48.53
So, that came into
fruition, the bill was passed,
00:23:48.54\00:23:52.11
no problem, governor signed it.
00:23:52.12\00:23:54.46
And it was a great
opportunity to hold hands
00:23:54.47\00:23:57.52
even with the Catholic Church.
00:23:57.53\00:23:58.92
And I was gonna say a
little early but you gave me
00:23:58.93\00:24:00.82
the perfect illustration,
obviously on this program
00:24:00.83\00:24:04.07
which is not just Religious
Liberty as the legal construct,
00:24:04.08\00:24:08.06
we're presenting our churches
view point on prophecy and so.
00:24:08.07\00:24:12.11
We often have said things
about problems areas there
00:24:12.12\00:24:15.41
in the Roman Catholic
Church, Islam and so on as well.
00:24:15.42\00:24:17.74
Right. We've deep
doctrine differences.
00:24:17.75\00:24:19.83
Oh! Absolutely.
00:24:19.84\00:24:20.81
When we're dealing
with the religious freedom
00:24:20.82\00:24:24.21
for all in the society very
often in fact most of the time
00:24:24.22\00:24:29.92
we're in coalition with groups
like Roman Catholic Church.
00:24:29.93\00:24:33.98
Sometimes, but on religious
Civil Religious Liberty,
00:24:33.99\00:24:38.15
depends on the issues.
Yeah. When I say it very often,
00:24:38.16\00:24:40.86
I didn't say always.
Yes, yes, yes that's good,
00:24:40.87\00:24:43.39
there are differences
that pop up from time to time.
00:24:43.40\00:24:45.38
Yes. But of recent
years, we have a similar concern
00:24:45.39\00:24:49.45
to enable Religious Liberty
and I'm thinking globally
00:24:49.46\00:24:51.75
not just the
United States. Yeah.
00:24:51.76\00:24:53.30
More and more and we said
earlier in another program
00:24:53.31\00:24:56.66
you know Christians
have become a persecuted,
00:24:56.67\00:24:58.76
yes, probably the most
persecuted group in the world.
00:24:58.77\00:25:01.28
So, we find ourselves in
alliance with churches like the
00:25:01.29\00:25:04.84
Roman Catholic church pushing
00:25:04.85\00:25:06.11
for a basic
principle of freedom for all.
00:25:06.12\00:25:08.22
And you never know because,
00:25:08.23\00:25:09.37
this is another
interesting point,
00:25:09.38\00:25:10.65
the Oregon Catholic Conference
they had an official stand
00:25:10.66\00:25:13.89
on the separation
of the church state
00:25:13.90\00:25:15.05
that's almost identical
to ours. And in contrary to
00:25:15.06\00:25:19.38
the US Conference
of Catholics Bishops,
00:25:19.39\00:25:20.76
apparently they
allow their local state
00:25:20.77\00:25:23.75
conference establishments
and their lobbing organizations
00:25:23.76\00:25:28.47
to come up with
different language,
00:25:28.48\00:25:29.81
to be somewhat autonomous. I
thought that was interesting,
00:25:29.82\00:25:32.19
I never known that before,
I thought that they all walked
00:25:32.20\00:25:34.02
in lockstep but apparently not.
00:25:34.03\00:25:35.97
So, they were, Bob was very much
00:25:35.98\00:25:38.60
for the separation of
church and state and very much
00:25:38.61\00:25:41.95
along the lines
that we believe in.
00:25:41.96\00:25:43.42
You know, I'll make
a passing statement,
00:25:43.43\00:25:45.26
we don't have much
time left but just as Islam
00:25:45.27\00:25:49.27
at root doesn't really
believe that the state should be
00:25:49.28\00:25:52.50
free of
religious control. Right.
00:25:52.51\00:25:55.15
At root, the
church is the state.
00:25:55.16\00:25:57.06
Yeah, the Roman Catholic Church
has a view on the subsidiarity
00:25:57.07\00:26:00.17
where the ultimate
authority is the church,
00:26:00.18\00:26:03.69
but they're not anymore at
least in the west interested
00:26:03.70\00:26:06.50
in having the church
move in on the stake.
00:26:06.51\00:26:08.31
So, under that model
we're under perfect agreement
00:26:08.32\00:26:11.05
to argue for laws
that equally protect
00:26:11.06\00:26:13.77
all religions and
their practice of faith.
00:26:13.78\00:26:16.58
And in that note it's
very important to remember
00:26:17.26\00:26:19.37
that when it come to religious
freedom we are for protecting
00:26:19.38\00:26:22.76
the freedom of
all people of faith.
00:26:22.77\00:26:24.97
That's important
concept that's why we're called
00:26:24.98\00:26:27.31
the North West
Religious Liberty Association.
00:26:27.32\00:26:29.48
It's also the
charter and declaration
00:26:29.49\00:26:32.75
of principles of
Liberty Magazine.
00:26:32.76\00:26:34.88
It's the charter
and principles of
00:26:34.89\00:26:36.40
the Seventh-day
Adventist Church worldwide,
00:26:36.41\00:26:38.55
from the general
conference on down.
00:26:38.56\00:26:40.38
So, I'm proud to be a part of
the Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:26:40.39\00:26:43.67
in championing religious
freedom for all people of faith.
00:26:43.68\00:26:47.30
If we don't my friends, what did
we really have to speak about,
00:26:47.31\00:26:50.95
we don't have much of a ministry
in the real world if we don't.
00:26:50.96\00:26:54.45
If we do not defend others,
how can we defend ourselves?
00:26:54.46\00:26:57.42
Whenever I think of
witnessing to legislators
00:26:58.55\00:27:02.07
and dealing with
laws that have effect on
00:27:02.08\00:27:04.77
how we practice our Christianity
and indeed our conscious
00:27:04.78\00:27:09.34
before other
people. I must think of Paul
00:27:09.35\00:27:12.88
before the
legislators of his time,
00:27:12.89\00:27:15.44
I mean they were
ruling more by direct rule,
00:27:15.45\00:27:17.45
there was King
Agrippa, Governor Felix.
00:27:17.46\00:27:20.93
But the reality is that
against the leaders of his time
00:27:20.94\00:27:24.99
Paul was quite
prepared to stand up
00:27:25.00\00:27:27.46
and speak out for truth.
We need to do the same today
00:27:27.47\00:27:31.13
particularly in a democracy
through the representative
00:27:31.14\00:27:35.18
forms of
government, it's out privilege,
00:27:35.19\00:27:37.25
our duty as
Christians to speak to them,
00:27:37.26\00:27:40.88
sometimes through
agents like Greg Hamilton,
00:27:40.89\00:27:43.91
sometimes directly ourselves.
00:27:43.92\00:27:45.81
But always, we
should argue for truth,
00:27:45.82\00:27:49.00
we should not
compromise our beliefs,
00:27:49.01\00:27:51.01
we should not
accept to some are saying
00:27:51.02\00:27:52.92
that well we can talk about
religion, we can't convert,
00:27:52.93\00:27:57.05
we can't change
other people's religion,
00:27:57.06\00:27:59.14
of course we can
change. Of course we should
00:27:59.15\00:28:01.81
expect full religious
freedom and of course always
00:28:01.82\00:28:04.83
we should speak honestly
about the God that we serve.
00:28:04.84\00:28:07.87
This is Lincoln
Steed for Liberty Insider.
00:28:09.62\00:28:12.75