Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Greg Hamilton
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000130
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00:23 Welcome to the Liberty Insider. This is the program
00:25 that brings you news, views, discussion and up to date 00:28 information on religious Liberty Issues. 00:31 In the United States, and around world. 00:33 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:36 And my guest on the program Greg Hamilton. 00:39 Welcome Greg. Glad to be here. 00:41 You are the President 00:42 of the Northwest Religious Liberty Association 00:45 among other things, but that's very important work 00:48 that you carry on there. Thank you. 00:50 Now like all of us working with Religious Liberty 00:53 you're watching political events very closely in particularly 00:56 in the United States, because so much of what we do 00:58 relates to the US Constitution and separation 01:00 of church and state. Very important principle. 01:03 Now, President Obama came in at an incredible time, 01:07 the economy collapsing and then quickly, 01:11 great polarization of political viewpoints. 01:13 You know, he's been called a socialist, 01:15 a communist, a Muslim. 01:19 He definitely has an agenda. How do you see the developments 01:23 under his presidency and his agenda 01:26 and all relating to Religious Liberty? 01:28 Well, obviously circumstances come to him, 01:30 worldwide events come to him as they come. 01:32 But I think as we explain in another show 01:34 we have to look his childhood background. 01:36 In terms of his religion, what is he? 01:39 Or what religion is he? Absolutely. 01:43 By the way, I know, you know this very well, 01:46 but it's worth reminding our viewers, 01:48 that this is not a mystery, because twice that I know 01:51 of at a national prayer breakfast about a month ago. 01:53 And then in 2006 he gave long presentations 01:58 on his religious upbringing, he characterized himself 02:01 as very secular, his family is almost anti-religious. 02:04 But then he gave very ringing affirmation 02:06 of his religious commitment in recent years. 02:09 Yeah, that's what I wanted to address, 02:10 is that we have to look at his childhood specifically, 02:14 because his mother was an Atheist, 02:16 his real father was a Jack Muslim, 02:19 always getting in trouble with the Muslim authorities 02:21 in Canada, in Kenya. 02:23 And his stepfather, in Jakarta, Indonesia, 02:26 the same problem and they were both Jack Muslims. 02:29 So this idea that somehow Obama have developed Muslim 02:32 just because he attended a Madrassa School for life. 02:35 Is it not a Madrassa school? Well, yeah. 02:37 In, I need to qualify this, I've been to Indonesia, 02:42 by law there, Islam is taught in the schools 02:47 and there are a few non-Islamic schools 02:49 are Seventh-day Adventist church run schools. 02:51 But they are forbidden to teach Muslims. 02:55 So if one Muslim child comes to your school, 02:58 you have to hire a Muslim teacher to teach the... 03:00 Well, he had some prevailing... 03:03 I'm sure he had all Muslim teachers. 03:05 Right. For about a year and a half 03:06 and they didn't last long and but most of his education 03:11 was actually in Catholic schools, 03:13 which his grandfather, his grandmother were Catholic. 03:15 So, he had this eclectic mix. In fact he said prior 03:19 to winning for President, he says I felt confused, 03:22 even when he was a social coordinator in Chicago, 03:26 he a Community Organizer. Community Organizer, yeah. 03:29 He said that I felt lost, I felt like I didn't have 03:34 a faith and you can read this in Steve Mansfield's book 03:38 "Barack Obama's Faith" and it's a interesting book 03:41 because he says his faith is eclectic 03:44 and that's why young people can relate to him. 03:45 It's almost like anything goes. And when he decided upon 03:49 Pentecostal forms of Christianity 03:51 or Christianity itself. He says, Obama says, 03:55 I found myself, I found Jesus and I accept Jesus 03:59 as my personal Savior. Yes, this is gonna be. 04:00 So, I had a hard time with people who say 04:02 that Obama is a Muslim, actually he is a new ager 04:06 in a way because, you know, 04:08 all paths lead to heaven in Obama's thinking really. 04:11 Because that's where he comes from, 04:13 that's where he is at. And it leads to our discussion 04:18 of Obama's Olive Branch doctrine, 04:21 which I'd believe as his actual foreign-policy doctrine. 04:24 And it's centered around Interfaith, 04:28 Interfaith Alliances. And it actually is at the core, 04:32 its central to his overall foreign-policy, 04:36 as described in his speech both in Turkey and also in Cairo. 04:41 The one that everybody remembers is the June 2009 04:45 big speech before government leaders, 04:47 military leaders and religious leaders in Cairo, Egypt. 04:49 And I think that those speeches had a lot to do with at least 04:53 creating a climate for this radical movement 04:57 within the Middle East recently. Yeah, in fact Thomas Friedman 04:59 in New York Times gave just that endorsement. 05:02 He said that people forget about his 2009 speech in Cairo, 05:06 which attempted to distance himself 05:08 from the Bush administration, which was in your face 05:12 democratic reform, you know, or else. 05:14 And he is saying no, we're not gonna force 05:17 you politically or religiously to adopt Americas ways 05:21 or our ways of thinking whether it's Christian or otherwise. 05:24 Now, the Right Wing Republicans mostly criticized him 05:29 for apologizing for America, I didn't really see it that way. 05:33 But they feel that we should be like Bush in your face. 05:35 That is psychologically as far as a human approach, 05:40 I think this is more likely to be feat isn't it? 05:43 But what is a feat, can we agree? 05:44 Well. What with where this is heading? 05:46 The problem is when it comes to Religious Freedom 05:49 and this is the problem, is Religious Freedom 05:52 is being acquainted with religious tolerance 05:54 in many of President Obama's speeches. 05:57 Well, he is, he changed the term right? 05:59 From freedom of worship, not changed that but 06:02 there was shift to mostly using freedom of worship 06:05 rather than freedom of religion. Correct. 06:07 And we know that there is world of difference between, yes, 06:09 how you apply those. Yes, and the difference 06:11 is basically this. And this is the problem 06:14 with Interfaith Movement that I see everywhere including 06:17 Interfaith Alliance in Portland, Oregon where I belong, 06:19 oh! I remember that, and that is you have, 06:22 you know, we can talk about religion, 06:25 we can talk about our individual faith. 06:27 And respect one and another. That's otherwise call 06:30 peaceful coexistence in Indonesia under the 5 point 06:34 philosophical bases of Indonesia's Constitution 06:38 it's called Pancasila. And it', it's otherwise known as 06:41 peaceful coexistence, you have a right to share 06:44 your faith as long as it, it's agreed to by 06:49 the other person and not forced up on him. 06:51 But you do not have a right to evangelize them 06:53 nor do you have a right to convert okay 06:56 and that's flies in the face of article 18 07:00 of the Universal declaration of human rights 07:01 in the covenants. And that's problematic, 07:05 it also flies in the face of the US Constitution idea 07:08 of equality of all religions under the law. 07:12 And so, now I'm not saying that Obama means that to be 07:16 bases of Religious Freedom here in America not at all. 07:19 He's now willing to tackle that mindset where it exists. 07:22 He's saying, I want to meet Muslims 07:23 where they're at. Because this is probably 07:25 the only realistic destination we can arrive at, 07:29 in terms of democratic reform and Religious Freedom 07:31 in those worlds. I mean, 07:33 can you imagine in Saudi Arabia, the whole idea 07:35 of the American model of Religious Freedom 07:38 probably wouldn't happen. But, what it does mean 07:40 is that he is not troubling within those countries 07:43 like Egypt some what and uncertainly Saudi Arabia 07:47 where it's against the law to convert. 07:49 Like just before the uprising in Egypt a survey was taken. 07:54 And I think it was 80 plus percent of that survey said 07:59 that they would support the law even the death penalty 08:01 on the law against conversion. So the whole mindset 08:05 in that whole country is against changing religious identity. 08:09 Lot of people don't realize that even 08:11 the Bush administration and the Obama administration 08:13 is basically saying the same thing, 08:15 it didn't originate with Obama. But, they are basically saying, 08:18 as with Condoleezza Rice, the Former Secretary of State 08:21 and George W. Bush. There was this idea 08:23 that Sharia law can be compatible 08:27 with democratic reform, which I think 08:30 is wholly nonsense. Yeah. And nevertheless, 08:34 that is their mindset and this is coming out 08:38 in the news quite a bit, by from very credible 08:40 foreign policy experts, not on the far right 08:42 but credible people like Fareed Zakaria, 08:47 you name it, even the Defense Secretary 08:49 Robert Gates. Well, the way its floating. 08:51 And I've heard a number of discussions is that we keep 08:53 our western law, or constitution 08:55 and all that goes with it. But in day to day matters 08:58 people be subject to a Sharia law court. 09:00 But they don't realize that there is an essentially 09:03 incompatibility between the two. So you can't have this operate 09:06 and then the regular civil law kick in at a certain level. 09:10 These will be in conflict from day one even on matters 09:14 of marriage and divorce and so on... 09:15 Well, women's right. Instantly, they would 09:17 be deprive to civil rights that the constitution. 09:20 And the whole concept of the roles of church 09:21 and state, it would be very problematic. 09:24 Well, it doesn't accept it, there is no separation. 09:25 Right, Well, there is a separation 09:27 in one sense. In the Sunni system they believe 09:29 that cleric should not rule, where as in the Shiya system 09:32 which is in Iran. They say that clerics absolutely 09:36 must rule. So, that's the clear difference 09:38 between the two. Well yes, 09:39 that's the custom but in... from the Quran they do not 09:43 acccept that the religious affairs to be separate 09:47 of civil affairs. Right, that's right. 09:49 And the religious economy rules the State. 09:51 And there is, these optimistic reports even 09:53 by various Muslim professors that teach at Harvard 09:56 and else where. They are saying that, 09:58 there is no problem. There will be separation 10:02 of church and state. You know, 10:03 I'm hearing this all the time. 10:04 Yeah, I don't know why they are saying. 10:06 I don't know why? Either they're thoroughly 10:07 deluded and you hope not, because then you wonder 10:09 about their intelligence or they're being disingenuous. 10:12 And I think there is an effort not so much to deceive people 10:15 but they see an inevitability in this, 10:17 they want to sort of rationalize, 10:19 well it will be okay. But I think 10:21 it's an intellectually dishonest way to carry the argument. 10:24 So, where does this take U.S Foreign Policy, 10:27 I mean, the whole Arab unrest seems 10:29 to be reshaping United States International 10:34 Religious Freedom policy. And I think it's going down 10:38 a road that it is almost as harmful 10:41 to true Religious freedom, as the hard right 10:44 approach is that. Well unless you accept 10:47 democratic reform, we're gonna put 10:50 economic sanctions on you. And if you don't reform after 10:53 a certain amount of years, we're going to attack you. 10:55 I mean, you know, the idea of religious force 11:01 is... abomination. So, you have these two factors, 11:06 you got the crusade mentality, you got the Jihadist mentality. 11:09 The two extremes and Obama is trying to reach the middle 11:12 but where does this lead. Well, in some ways, 11:15 I mean in leads in many different directions. 11:17 But in some ways it's prepared to do to the world what politics 11:21 has done for a long time, divide it up into 11:23 spheres of influence? And as long as 11:25 the Islamic Philosophy can have interaction with 11:29 the Christians Philosophy, but don't meddle 11:31 with the prerogatives of one area over the other. 11:34 Barack Obama points to Indonesia as the model 11:38 for Religious Freedom for the rest of the, 11:40 or for the Arab-Muslim world. Indonesia being in the... 11:44 It's one of the best cases, it's not an ideal situation. 11:48 Yeah, exactly and so this peaceful coexistence 11:51 or Pancasila that's always being referred to by President Obama. 11:55 The problem with it is that, I'm reading in the news 11:57 constantly that the persecution of Christians and especially 12:01 by Generals who are rising up, I just read the report 12:04 two days ago. Generals rising up 12:06 and supporting the extreme Islamic fundamentalists, 12:09 the Islamists in Indonesia. Indonesia is starting 12:12 to tip backwards as we speak. That's my take. 12:15 Towards major all out civil war and revolution again. 12:19 And so, this model that's being proposed is short sighted. 12:24 Yes, absolutely. And there is no question 12:28 that the US in some ways acts like a baby in the war zone 12:31 on international religion, religious affairs. 12:34 And it's possible that this President with good intentions 12:38 is pursuing a dangerous course on Religious freedom 12:41 and the separation of church and state. 12:42 We'll be back after a short break 12:44 to continue this discussion, a very interesting one 12:47 on how US policy in matters of Religious Freedom 12:50 impacts Religious Freedom here and abroad. 13:03 One-hundred years! A long time to do anything, 13:06 much less publish a magazine, but this year Liberty, 13:10 the Seventh-Day Adventist voice of Religious Freedom, 13:13 celebrates one hundred years of doing what it does best, 13:17 collecting, analyzing, and reporting the ebb 13:20 and flow of religious expression around the world. 13:23 Issue after issue, Liberty has taken 13:26 on the tough assignments, tracking down threats 13:28 to Religious Freedom and exposing the work 13:30 of the devil in every corner of the globe. 13:33 Governmental interference, personal attacks, 13:36 corporate assaults, even Religious Freedom issues 13:39 sequestered within the church community itself have been 13:41 clearly and honestly exposed. Liberty exists for one purpose, 13:46 to help God's people maintain that all important 13:49 separation of Church and State, while recognizing the dangers 13:53 inherent in such a struggle. During the past century, 13:56 Liberty has experienced challenges of its own, 13:59 but it remains on the job. Thanks to the inspired 14:03 leadership of a long line of dedicated Adventist Editors, 14:06 three of whom represent almost half of the publications 14:08 existence and the foresight of a little woman 14:11 from New England. One hundred years of struggle, 14:14 one hundred years of victories, Religious Freedom isn't just 14:18 about political machines and cultural prejudices. 14:21 It's about people fighting for the right to serve the God 14:26 they love as their hearts and the Holy Spirit dictate. 14:30 Thanks to the prayers and generous support 14:32 of Seventh-day Adventists everywhere, 14:34 Liberty will continue to accomplish its work 14:37 of providing timely information, spirit filled inspiration, 14:40 and heaven sent encouragement to all who long to live 14:44 and work in a world bound together 14:47 by the God ordained bonds of Religious Freedom. 15:01 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider. 15:03 Before the break, I was talking with guest 15:05 Greg Hamilton about Religious Liberty 15:08 as relates to US foreign policy under President Obama. 15:11 They've been some big changes both in foreign policy 15:15 and in global events, so Religious Liberty 15:17 is front and center, it's not just something 15:20 that you can sort of ignore, but big things are happening 15:23 out there. Oh absolutely. 15:24 And during the break I was talking to you about 15:27 Samuel Huntington. He's the founder 15:28 of Foreign Policy Magazine. He died not long ago, 15:31 you were telling me too. Yeah, he died just 15:33 a couple of years ago but he is the one that wrote 15:35 that famous article in Foreign Affairs Journal 15:37 called "The Clash Of Civilizations" 15:40 and then he later rewrote into a book format 15:43 "The Clash Of Civilizations And Remaking Of World Order." 15:45 I heard him giving a lecture not too long before he died. 15:48 Fascinating, very fascinating then I asked 15:50 him a few questions with I wanted to found out 15:53 if he thought that his philosophy applied to Iraq 15:57 and all of those events. If all of the foreign policy 15:59 experts his philosophy or his point of view 16:03 is still pretty much on track. The only where, 16:06 the only place he differs. Well, he didn't like the idea 16:09 in some ways he didn't like to see it is a full-blown clash. 16:13 Well, he predicted that Islam in the long run would trump over 16:19 Christianity worldwide in terms of dominance of Germany 16:22 and all that stuff. And his obviously 16:26 I think he's wrong, Philip Jenkins in his book 16:28 "The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity" 16:30 Who now is a Professor at Baylor University said 16:34 that this is nonsense, he said actually Christianity 16:37 is growing half, half as fast, if not faster, 16:41 ah well faster but half more faster, 16:45 how are we gonna say that then Islam and that by 2050, 16:49 we will still be ahead of Islam, there is no way Islam 16:52 is ever gonna catchup. And Huntington says 16:55 that Islam will dominate because of birthrate 16:58 that they evangelize or they attempt to conquer 17:03 the world by having numerous and numerous children 17:06 where as Christians try to convert through pure 17:09 persuasion and evangelism. And so he says, 17:11 Christianity losses. And Philip Jenkins says, 17:14 no, actually the sense of Christian revival 17:17 and evangelism around the world especially in the small, 17:22 the home churches in China is enormous 17:25 it's overtaking the world. But, where, Huntington is, 17:28 his as right as less on a violent military clash 17:33 then people shifts and changes demographic shifts. 17:36 And what he was talking about I think we see it played 17:39 out before our eyes in Europe, 17:40 we have those immigrant populations... 17:44 it's not so much breeding, but they're multiplying 17:46 and holding their culture and they're just making in roads 17:51 into indigenous culture. Samuel Huntington is the one 17:54 who emphasize in his book 17:56 "The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order" 17:58 that we ought to take a step back from the American ideal 18:00 of championing true Religious Freedom or the American idea 18:04 of Religious Freedom guaranteed by our constitution. 18:07 That is religious equality in the law, 18:08 and take a step back to religious tolerance because. 18:11 I don't realize that. Oh, yeah, 18:13 I've read this stuff that. Yeah. 18:15 Now that would be a dangerous shift. 18:17 Exactly, exactly, so he said that we have to move 18:20 towards international consistence and uses the word 18:24 in that consistence, we have to learn to tolerate 18:27 each other, okay. And he goes on and talks about 18:30 religious tolerance but he said that basically is the model 18:33 that Muslims, the only model that Muslims 18:37 are gonna understand to a certain point. 18:38 And whether that's true or not, remains to seen, 18:42 I don't believe that you can even get that far with it. 18:45 But in terms of moderate Islam and this is real question. 18:50 What's a difference between moderate Islam 18:52 is there such a thing between moderate Islam and Islamist 18:55 or fundamentalist extremists. And that distinction is always 19:00 been made and I think that distinction is true 19:03 to a certain point. I think it's a cultural 19:05 distinction not a religious. Yes, I agree. 19:07 There are people who are moderate 19:09 but they're not moderate Islam. Then the term I would rather use 19:13 is nominalist. There are many nominal Muslims 19:16 just as there are many nominal Christian or Catholics 19:19 because which is the model of behavior that I... 19:22 Right. Because Catholicism has medieval. 19:25 Right. Constructs that brings with it. 19:29 But yes, I think we're in for a clash 19:30 in going back to Huntington. I think he was very correct 19:34 into identifying this before it was self evident 19:36 for most people. And it may not with me 19:39 that he saw, he was pushing us toward 19:43 more of accommodationist view with other religion. 19:45 But it may not be a clash after all, in my thinking. 19:48 The reason why Religious Liberty is harmed, 19:50 the American idea of religious freedom, 19:52 if it takes a step backwards both internationally 19:55 and eventually, nationally, domestically. 19:57 Then what happened is you have this interfaith model 20:00 that supersedes this American idea of religious equality 20:04 under law. That is the ability in free 20:07 marketplace of ideas in capitalistic forms of democracy. 20:12 The ability to preach, teach, evangelize 20:16 and to change religions whenever an individual wants to. 20:21 That's not allowed in the interfaith construct 20:25 or model. And this is the model 20:28 that Samuel Huntington champions. 20:30 The problem I have with that model 20:32 which is what President Obama seems to be championing, 20:35 is yet to be seen, I mean he may change course 20:39 and who knows. I'm not sure that he has 20:42 a real solid international religious freedom policy expert 20:46 in his cabinet. But, nevertheless, 20:49 it seems that the way it's going, 20:51 as you see a convergence of away from religious freedom 20:56 is the model towards religious tolerance, 20:58 that we tolerate each other in a state of peaceful 21:02 coexistence. That international model, 21:04 I'm afraid will end up being the national model. 21:07 And it maybe the only rational way in which ecumenically 21:13 unity occurs. We even see this with 21:15 Pope Benedict the 16th and his latest rounds 21:20 of talks in his discussions with Muslims. 21:23 Well communism from the very beginning has always frowned 21:25 upon proselytization. Sheep stealing. 21:28 Absolutely, and so it does, 21:31 it has tended to see as I said before religious communities 21:35 is like race, its something that you have, 21:37 that you are and you stay. And you can dialogue 21:41 with someone else, but you never shift from it. 21:43 Yeah. And yes, I think you are right certainly 21:46 about Obama's foreign policy. Its predicted on clearly 21:51 not on violence in spite of the no fly zone at the moment. 21:55 I think it sort of world that may, 21:57 that can sort of make do and you down stir this group 22:02 that might be aggressive. You don't have 22:05 radical Christianity that bothers Islam. 22:07 You don't have Buddhism bothering. 22:08 So, it would tend towards sort of a passive religious 22:12 live and let live arrangement. Earlier I referred 22:15 to Indonesia and Pancasila, within Pancasila or this idea 22:21 of peaceful coexistence that forms the basis 22:23 of Indonesia's constitution, which is 5 point pillars, 22:27 or basis of their constitution. You've got Secular Government, 22:31 you've got Sharia Law, mixed in with the idea 22:35 of Pancasila. So, you've got all three wedged 22:38 in together. I may state them earlier about 22:41 Indonesia that they don't allow others to convert. 22:45 They do allow conversion reluctantly, 22:49 and I wanna state this carefully, 22:51 they allow it reluctantly, but not without cultural 22:55 and severe implications and persecution. 22:59 If...If... Like I've said on this program before, 23:02 I remember very plainly when I was in Indonesia. 23:06 Reading in the newspaper story of a Hindu couple 23:12 that divorced and got into a custody battle 23:15 over their children and the wife converted to Islam, 23:18 because instantly that meant by law the children 23:22 had to go to her, because you cannot take 23:24 the children from an Islamic person. 23:27 And, by law as I remember someone cannot be allowed 23:33 to convert from Islam. Well. 23:34 Islam is the protected religion. Islam is the benchmark. 23:38 That's the way they make do. Okay. 23:40 So, it's not really reading exchange 23:41 of Religious Prerogatives. I'm really, 23:44 I am reading conflicting sources then because 23:46 from what I understand is that there is a profession 23:49 of that you know you can convert quietly. 23:55 Well, yes. Otherwise you will be persecuted. 23:57 Yes, well I mean the same in Saudi Arabia. 24:00 You're going to be beheaded if you convert from Islam, 24:04 but I don't doubt that now and then someone has done it 24:06 without telling anyone. But that's like any law, 24:09 you can disobey the law generally and unless it's known 24:12 and then the penalty dissolves. Then what you are saying 24:15 then complies or comports with my other research 24:19 which is a the basis of my paper. 24:21 That going down this Interfaith path is peaceful coexistence 24:24 of model is very harmful to religious freedom as we know it. 24:30 And, because if you're not allowed to convert, 24:32 which seems to be clear in the Indonesian model, 24:35 then why does President Obama sight it as the model 24:38 for the rest of Islam. It could be problematic 24:40 and I wrote an editorial in Liberty discussing 24:43 this religious freedom versus freedom of worship. 24:46 And I gave them a pass, I thought maybe it was just done 24:50 not recognizing the import of the terms and worst with just 24:56 a desire to placate some of these mostly Islamic countries, 25:00 but if it's actually a calculated policy, 25:02 it's very dangerous, very dangerous. 25:04 Well. Because religious freedom of worship 25:07 is absolutely that, you happen just 25:10 freedom of worship was what the communist allowed. 25:13 And, they hated religion, they wanted it to die up. 25:16 Earlier on they were prepared to send people to the Gulags, 25:19 but once that settled down. It was enough, 25:20 you believe in religion? Well we'll give a church, 25:23 we'll give you a time, you worship here, 25:26 you pray here, but don't dare go out 25:28 and try and spread it, don't give it to your kids. 25:29 And, eventually you'll die and that's the end of it. 25:32 What does it suggest about the future of the unrest 25:34 in the Middle East right now? It would suggest 25:36 the democratic reform could take the path 25:39 in unsitting monarchs and autocratic Presidents 25:42 and dictators, could take the path of actually 25:46 paving the way it with good intentions, 25:50 the path toward Sharia Law dominated in governments 25:53 and Islamist extremist governments. 25:55 Absolutely there you are on the same page with me. 25:58 I think well it may not happen in the first step, 26:00 I think we are on a irrevocable path toward that sort 26:04 of the construct. Yes, and it maybe possible 26:07 to have an International Coalition dealing with such 26:10 governments on reasonable terms of reference. 26:12 You're right, with a lip service 26:14 to your religion but don't bring it here. 26:17 So, that in self only is a self fulfilling prophecy 26:23 as Samuel Huntington's clashes of civilizations. 26:25 Absolutely. In a clash of civilizations 26:27 with Samuel Huntington, we have this idea that all 26:31 civilizations should learn to tolerate each other. 26:33 But, where does it that take us in terms of religious tolerance 26:36 as opposed to the American constitution idea 26:39 of religious freedom, which is the idea 26:42 of religious equality for all under the law. 26:44 It was suggest that two choices we have takes us down road 26:49 of the delimiting religious freedom all together. 26:52 Freedom of Worship is such a comforting sounding term. 26:56 But, for those of us that work with religious liberty, 27:00 we know that freedom of religion is another thing entirely 27:05 from freedom of worship. Of course we all want to worship 27:09 and acknowledge God and every one needs to be 27:13 convinced and committed in their own heart and serve God 27:16 with their mind. But when we are talking about 27:19 a civil construct and how we put that into practice. 27:23 Freedom of religion embraces everything, 27:25 that embraces public prayers, private prayers, 27:28 that embraces teaching my children about religion, 27:31 that embraces public witness, that embraces telling someone 27:35 else about God and bringing them to a conviction and a faith 27:39 action of their own. Freedom of Worship 27:42 can be as simple as just worshiping God 27:45 in a designated place and at a designated time. 27:48 We need leaders who understand that distinction and argue 27:52 for it not just in this country, the United States, 27:54 but across the world and in any system and in any place, 27:58 freedom of religion is primary. We must serve God. 28:06 For liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17