Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program
that brings you up to dates,
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news, views and discussion
on Religious Liberty events.
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My name is Lincoln Steed
editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the
program is Greg Hamilton.
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And you're the
President of the North West
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Religious
Liberty Association. Yes.
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And a Religious Liberty Director
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for the
Seventh-day Adventist church
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in the North West region.
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And as well as that I know,
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an expert and a
well read expert on
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Religious Liberty issues,
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church state issues and so on.
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You and I are
both following events
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with great
interests at the moment.
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I think as Seventh-day Adventist
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and you too are a
Seventh-day Adventist.
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We can't help but
see prophecy fulfilling
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in some of these current events,
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what's your take on this?
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How would you characterize
the cataclysm events
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in the Middle East
and of course then Japan,
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with their literal cataclysm?
What does all this say to you?
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Well, Christ said once that,
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the very rocks would cry out
if we didn't absolute present
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the map that
exists so obvious to us.
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The world generalist,
state leaders, world leaders,
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kings, monarchs. They
all see what's happening
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and they're fearful, the
Stock Market, Wall Street.
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Events are happening so fast,
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ever since 9/11 that
we can't keep up with it.
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It is, we are in
fact even Hillary Clinton
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is going to step down
after four years serving
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in the state department
self serving two terms.
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Because she is so
worn out after two years,
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it even shows,
it's visible. Okay.
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It, with the
tsunamis, earthquakes,
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nuclear meltdown,
economic meltdown.
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You name it, unrest.
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All we're missing at the moment
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is a global
pandemic and of course
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that will come around again,
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unrest in the Arab middle,
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Muslim Middle East,
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which Nuclear War is a
possible threat with Iran.
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And when you look at it,
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the
destabilization of Saudi Arabia,
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Bahrain and Iran's
ability to influence
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some of those
countries, even possible Egypt.
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It's not an easy
situation for Barack Obama
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to come into as President,
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which he did two years ago.
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But even more so, the challenges
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are mounting up like no
other president in history.
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And this not to say I agree
with everything Obama does,
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because I don't.
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And you'll see that
in a minute very clearly.
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But I really
believe that our leaders
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need to be prayed for,
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regardless of
whether we agree with him
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or disagree with him.
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Because these are times in which
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clearly to anyone of us,
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the Lord is coming
and I believe possibly,
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Lincoln, we maybe
facing or heading down the road
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of a little time of
trouble and possibly a literal,
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as well as a
spiritual Armageddon.
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Absolutely, I think
there's good reasons
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for a Christian to think that
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these things are eminent.
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And Jesus told
the Pharisees He said,
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you can decide on the seasons,
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why can't you?
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You see the
times that we live in.
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And it must apply today.
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I really believe
we're on the cusp
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of something really big.
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What I've often said
in afternoon meetings
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when we talk about
this type of the thing.
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I say that I can't
know and I don't think
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you're saying you
know definitely that...
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that the world will come
to that moment of Christ,
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you know on such and such a day.
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I know there is a well
known radio program that's,
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what it said in May, isn't it?
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You know we're not to do that,
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but I tell people, I said,
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I am certain that
the world that we know
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as we know it is
about the pass away.
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We're at a shifting point,
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and every single thing,
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whether it's the
economy or the environment,
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the political situation,
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it's the
possibility of pandemics,
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they're all just
swarming in on us.
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Something big is
about to happen, isn't it?
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Oh, absolutely and I
think we could no longer afford
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to say that we
believe in the life of Christ
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or the doctrines
of Bible prophecy.
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And yet shelve them from Sabbath
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to Sabbath in our sermons.
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I think if there is
ever a time to be awake,
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it's now to preach
The Three Angels message.
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Messages that were said
through Jesus Christ alone
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and not through any man
made means to save himself.
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The world is at a crisis
that its never seen before.
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And I think it is
high time that we wake up
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and preach the message.
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In fact, so much so
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that we have
nothing to be ashamed of.
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What was it just
the three days ago,
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the USA Today Newspaper,
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the second largest
newspaper in the country
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outside of New York Times,
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with Wall Street Journal
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and Washington Post
following 3rd and 4th.
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They said that the
Seventh-day Adventist church
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is the fastest
growing denomination
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in the United
States. Now that was awesome,
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now obliviously
there's a little bit of,
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we have to clarify that.
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And that is that...
that 2 percent growth
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which doesn't say much compared,
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you know obviously,
the other denominations
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aren't doing so well.
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Yeah, we could
wish them together.
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Yes, but it is because
of the growth of Hispanics
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in our church, which
is a very dynamic group
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And the other factor is
that they said that because
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our church is so
multi ethnic that people
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that come across
the border from Mexico
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or from other countries,
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they feel so at
home in our churches.
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And I think that
because our churches booming,
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I think that it's
ever more than the reasons
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why we should not be ashamed
of our prophetic message.
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Absolutely, and I
believe it will boom
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even more as
Adventists focus again
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on what we're all about? Yes.
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We're not a
nice comfortable club
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which we are on one level.
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But the whole purpose is,
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Ellen White speaking
to early Adventists said,
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it's in our name.
Seventh-day Adventists. Yes.
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We'd have to call people back to
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the Seventh-day
Sabbath and God's law. Right.
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And the varsity of God's word.
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And Adventists,
we're here to proclaim
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that Christ is coming soon. Yes
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And if we ever called
to proclaim such a thing.
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Now, it's multiplied
many times over. Yes.
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It's so apparent and you know,
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you mentioned
this Apocalypse now.
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Yeah, Newsweek
magazine, Apocalypse now.
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Tsunamis, earthquakes,
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nuclear meltdowns, revolutions,
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economies on the brink.
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And then what the
blank is next? You know.
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And they keep saying,
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and it's unfortunate because
it's maligning the Bible.
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But you know disasters
of Biblical proportions.
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I keep hearing that.
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what they really mean is that
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these remind
even a secular person
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that maybe something
bigger than them going on.
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Maybe, what Christ said
about evil working it's way out.
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In preparatory to
His coming kingdom.
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Maybe that there is some
truth in this. Oh absolutely.
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And I think this is the
moment of opportunity for us
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to explain to a wondering world.
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Even these leaders if we
do with Liberty Magazine.
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Explain to them that
there is some meaning here,
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it isn't as
chaotic as it appears.
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What I mean by a
relationship with Jesus Christ
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specifically is this,
relationship is very important
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but what do we
mean by relationship?
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Many time when we
when we talk about
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a relationship
with Jesus Christ.
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Many times it sounds
like a warm, fuzzy, cozy,
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relationship with
Jesus, without knowing anything
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about the political
hardships He went through,
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the social issues,
the cultural issues
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He went through.
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All those factors
we seem to leave out,
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we get stuck in a
theological lock box of which,
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somehow that's all we know.
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If ...if, you know we
don't consider all the things
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that Christ had to go through.
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We often say
well, all we need is
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a relationship with
Jesus, but we don't need
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to have any knowledge.
Knowledge isn't important,
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or knowledge cannot
save you, that's true,
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knowledge cannot save you.
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But knowledge
divorced from a relationship
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with Jesus Christ is a
deceptive relationship.
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Absolutely. It is
a false relationship,
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and that's what I
call Evangelical drift
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that happens to
me to be occurring
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within the Christian world
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and even in the
Seventh day Adventist church.
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And it's, we've got
to do what we can do.
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And everything we
can do to try to restore
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our uniqueness as
Seventh-day Adventist church.
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Absolutely, even
after the meeting,
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a couple of weeks ago.
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And talking about same
sort of stuff and afterwards,
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this very nice 30 years
woman came up and she says,
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oh, I'm troubled by
lot of these she says,
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I always thought that
when that Christ has came,
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it would just be
like our neighbors
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would talk badly about us.
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And the woman next to her said,
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oh I want to live
with your reality.
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The reality is that
we're probably very close
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to the times that Jesus said,
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that be so severe that
if they were not shorten,
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no flesh would survive.
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So we shouldn't undersell it,
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but at the same
time, if we're with Christ,
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if we've
identified our, our very being
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with His purposes and goals,
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there is a certain
protection offered.
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But beyond that,
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you know there's
an eternity of bliss.
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So it's not really a bad
times for God's followers,
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but it's like testing time.
This is the finals, isn't it?
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And I really believe we've got
to sort ourselves out quickly,
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not internally but I mean
sort ourselves in the sense of
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get our priorities straight.
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And we've have to
realize that Christ needs to be
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the center and His agenda.
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And this is the moment
of opportunity as I see it.
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You know, if we
market in Christ,
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if the
Seventh-day Adventist church
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was brought into being to
proclaim the second coming,
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this is the moment. Yes, it is.
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Lets go for it, not
well; you know, maybe it is,
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we know, we thought
so, when Turkey fell.
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You know... we were bothered
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when Turkey fell
in World War two.
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And you know Hitler Communist,
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well, you know why now?
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I think there's many reasons
that this an extraordinarily
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different moment
and far more likely
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to be a final crisis. You know
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I was to going to
get motivated seminar,
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which is put on by
Zig-Ziglar and Colin Powell.
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And Rudolph Giuliani were there.
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Rudolph Giuliani in Portland,
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Oregon just a
couple of weeks ago,
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said that we're
facing chaos in the world,
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because people are becoming
followers and not leaders.
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And he said the reason that is,
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is because they're
not readers anymore,
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we don't read anymore.
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In fact, he says,
communication has bowled down
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to a three word
sentence on Twitter.
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Okay, it's the
Twitter generation,
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the Facebook
generation that is basically
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taking us down
to dumb and dumber.
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And.. and what I mean by
that is that people really
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aren't thinking
substantively anymore.
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And as a result of that,
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you're seeing more
and more unrest, chaos.
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Yes, cry for the
democracy in the Middle East,
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but in fact what
we're seeing is chaos.
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That I believe is
leading to a time of trouble
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that we've never seen before.
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People, you talk
about world peace,
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there is no peace peace.
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Well, what does this Bible say?
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There's peace peace
and sudden destruction
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comes over.
Yeah, there's nothing,
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I mean there's no such
thing as peace anymore, hardly.
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I mean world leaders can
hardly contain themselves
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because they have no means
to bring about world peace.
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They have a sense of
helplessness right now.
00:10:58.61\00:11:01.47
There's a wonderful quote that
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I'll try to
remember by Ellen White
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at the beginning of
a compilation recently
00:11:04.92\00:11:07.28
put together by our
church on last day events.
00:11:07.29\00:11:09.91
And she says, "Thinking
men and women of all class,
00:11:09.92\00:11:12.63
rulers, statesmen have
their attention fixed upon
00:11:12.64\00:11:15.72
the events taking
place about us. Yes.
00:11:15.73\00:11:17.81
They observe the intensity
that is taking position
00:11:17.82\00:11:20.61
of every earthly element.
00:11:20.62\00:11:21.97
And they see
that something great
00:11:21.98\00:11:24.26
and decisive is
about to take place.
00:11:24.27\00:11:26.60
Absolutely. That the world is
00:11:26.61\00:11:27.99
on the verge of a
stupendous crisis."
00:11:28.00\00:11:31.25
Yeah, I mean.
00:11:31.26\00:11:32.23
That's clearly where
we live at this moment.
00:11:32.24\00:11:34.15
Worldwide Economy
collapse is incredible.
00:11:34.16\00:11:36.01
Even the European Union
can't even come together
00:11:36.02\00:11:39.23
as to determine whose
going to take the lead
00:11:39.24\00:11:42.45
in the effort
in Libya right now.
00:11:42.46\00:11:43.92
I mean it's, it's
such a small decision,
00:11:43.93\00:11:46.60
but egos get in the way.
00:11:46.61\00:11:47.99
You know egos
always get in the way.
00:11:48.00\00:11:49.94
Well, let me in part
discuss a little bit,
00:11:49.95\00:11:52.77
we've got to be aware of if
you're a political discussion,
00:11:52.78\00:11:55.45
but Libya is an
interesting dynamic.
00:11:55.46\00:11:57.17
What's going on here?
00:11:57.18\00:11:58.17
Why so late in the process
that will's last super power
00:11:58.18\00:12:02.43
and arguably the
last imperial power.
00:12:02.44\00:12:04.74
I'm meddling there.
What's funny because,
00:12:04.75\00:12:07.11
well Daniel 11,
Libya is mentioned
00:12:07.12\00:12:10.06
in Daniel 11 ironically.
00:12:10.07\00:12:11.51
That's what we
need to get on to.
00:12:11.52\00:12:12.67
We'll be back after a break
00:12:12.68\00:12:14.43
with this
interesting discussion.
00:12:14.44\00:12:16.12
There's so much to discuss,
00:12:16.13\00:12:17.70
I want you stay
with us as we continue
00:12:17.71\00:12:20.28
this after a break.
00:12:20.29\00:12:21.26
One-hundred years,
00:12:29.84\00:12:31.36
a long time to do anything,
00:12:31.37\00:12:33.31
much less publish a magazine,
00:12:33.32\00:12:35.15
but this year Liberty,
00:12:35.16\00:12:37.18
the Seventh-Day Adventist
voice of religious freedom,
00:12:37.19\00:12:39.90
celebrates one hundred years
of doing what it does best,
00:12:39.91\00:12:43.54
collecting, analyzing,
00:12:43.55\00:12:45.38
and reporting the ebb
00:12:45.39\00:12:46.92
and flow of religious expression
00:12:46.93\00:12:48.43
around the world.
Issue after issue.
00:12:48.44\00:12:51.41
Liberty has taken on
the tough assignments,
00:12:51.42\00:12:53.95
tracking down
threats to religious freedom
00:12:53.96\00:12:56.14
and exposing the
work of the devil
00:12:56.15\00:12:57.54
in every corner of the globe.
00:12:57.55\00:12:59.43
Governmental interference,
00:12:59.44\00:13:01.07
personal attacks,
corporate assaults,
00:13:01.08\00:13:03.59
even religious
freedom issues sequestered
00:13:03.60\00:13:05.89
within the
church community itself
00:13:05.90\00:13:07.47
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:07.48\00:13:10.23
Liberty exists for one purpose,
00:13:10.24\00:13:12.72
to help God's people
maintain that all important
00:13:12.73\00:13:16.14
separation of Church and State,
00:13:16.15\00:13:17.88
while recognizing the dangers
00:13:17.89\00:13:19.95
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:19.96\00:13:21.49
During the past century,
00:13:21.50\00:13:23.33
Liberty has experienced
challenges of its own,
00:13:23.34\00:13:25.76
but it remains on the job.
00:13:25.77\00:13:27.91
Thanks to the
inspired leadership
00:13:27.92\00:13:29.98
of a long line of
dedicated Adventist editors,
00:13:29.99\00:13:32.42
three of whom represent almost
00:13:32.43\00:13:33.98
half of the
publications existence
00:13:33.99\00:13:35.61
and the foresight of a
little woman from New England.
00:13:35.62\00:13:38.93
One hundred years of struggle,
00:13:38.94\00:13:41.22
one hundred years of victories,
00:13:41.23\00:13:43.48
religious freedom isn't
just about political machines
00:13:43.49\00:13:46.84
and cultural prejudices.
00:13:46.85\00:13:48.16
It's about people fighting
00:13:48.17\00:13:50.62
for the right to
serve the God they love
00:13:50.63\00:13:53.06
as their hearts and
the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:13:53.07\00:13:56.65
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:13:56.66\00:13:58.74
of Seventh-Day
Adventists everywhere.
00:13:58.75\00:14:00.92
Liberty will
continue to accomplish
00:14:00.93\00:14:03.04
its work of
providing timely information,
00:14:03.05\00:14:05.13
spirit filled inspiration,
00:14:05.14\00:14:06.68
and heaven sent encouragement
00:14:06.69\00:14:08.56
to all who long to
live and work in a world
00:14:08.57\00:14:12.43
bound together by
the God ordained bonds
00:14:12.44\00:14:15.24
of religious freedom.
00:14:15.25\00:14:18.04
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider,
00:14:24.24\00:14:25.90
before the break,
00:14:25.91\00:14:26.88
I was talking with guests,
00:14:26.89\00:14:27.97
Greg Hamilton about
the cataclysm events
00:14:27.98\00:14:32.01
that are taking place around us.
00:14:32.02\00:14:33.39
As Newsweek magazine says,
00:14:33.40\00:14:35.89
Apocalypse now,
00:14:35.90\00:14:37.09
and the Seventh-day Adventist,
00:14:37.10\00:14:38.77
can we ignore this?
00:14:38.78\00:14:40.36
Is this
prophetically significant?
00:14:40.37\00:14:41.83
You and I are
both absolutely agree
00:14:41.84\00:14:43.99
that we are
living in...in not just
00:14:44.00\00:14:45.73
prophetic times
maybe the final times.
00:14:45.74\00:14:48.45
Never has the Untied States been
00:14:48.46\00:14:50.26
in three wars at the same time,
00:14:50.27\00:14:52.66
simultaneously
ever in its history.
00:14:52.67\00:14:54.98
And that's the
most derivative that
00:14:54.99\00:14:56.36
the military
world is said to petrify
00:14:56.37\00:14:58.42
three wars simultaneously.
So what about a fourth?
00:14:58.43\00:15:00.98
Well, I mean we're
told that in Matthew 24
00:15:00.99\00:15:03.58
there be wars, and wars of wars?
00:15:03.59\00:15:05.79
But what is the real
significant thing going on?
00:15:05.80\00:15:08.55
Evangelicals
today are really excited
00:15:08.56\00:15:11.10
about what's going
on in the Middle East,
00:15:11.11\00:15:12.50
because if they believe
that a democratic reform
00:15:12.51\00:15:15.08
could take
place, then the Gospel
00:15:15.09\00:15:17.60
or if democratic
reform could take place.
00:15:17.61\00:15:19.29
The Gospel can open up,
Evangelism can take place.
00:15:19.30\00:15:22.59
And that 10 40
geographical window
00:15:22.60\00:15:25.44
from the Middle East
clear over to Central
00:15:25.45\00:15:27.82
And South East
Asia would be opened
00:15:27.83\00:15:30.30
to them to evangelize.
00:15:30.31\00:15:31.55
And so they see
this as the big sign,
00:15:31.56\00:15:34.69
the big thing coming.
00:15:34.70\00:15:35.68
And so, they
applaud the military action,
00:15:35.69\00:15:38.58
the use of force
to then eventually
00:15:38.59\00:15:41.48
be able to spread the Gospel.
00:15:41.49\00:15:42.97
Well that to me is ironic.
00:15:42.98\00:15:44.42
Yeah, it is ironic,
00:15:44.43\00:15:45.46
and it's also one
of the great ironies,
00:15:45.47\00:15:47.24
because well this is
not a political program.
00:15:47.25\00:15:49.49
We've discussed
political developments
00:15:49.50\00:15:52.32
and I saw a lot
to be troubled with,
00:15:52.33\00:15:54.93
about the last administration,
00:15:54.94\00:15:56.89
not least use of
force against Iraq.
00:15:56.90\00:16:00.69
But I have to say,
you'd have to be blind
00:16:00.70\00:16:04.38
to events, not to see
at what's happening now.
00:16:04.39\00:16:07.48
Part of the
dynamic begun by that...
00:16:07.49\00:16:09.28
that forcible
election that broke up
00:16:09.29\00:16:11.38
the old models there.
00:16:11.39\00:16:13.17
And as
President Bush used to say
00:16:13.18\00:16:14.71
the idea was to bring
democracy to the Middle East,
00:16:14.72\00:16:17.39
in a certain
bizarre way that did start
00:16:17.40\00:16:19.93
the nine pens or
the ten pens falling.
00:16:19.94\00:16:23.70
But I think it's a
lot more than that,
00:16:23.71\00:16:25.95
I said and I written already
on our blog and our website.
00:16:25.96\00:16:31.44
I think we've to recognize that
00:16:31.45\00:16:33.09
this wasn't the
spontaneous as it appears,
00:16:33.10\00:16:35.77
there are Antisedans,
00:16:35.78\00:16:36.95
there's the religious agitation
00:16:36.96\00:16:38.88
of the Muslim brotherhood
00:16:38.89\00:16:40.92
and conservative
Muslim activists.
00:16:40.93\00:16:42.99
But I think Al
Jazeera, which a new.
00:16:43.00\00:16:47.58
It's been a big
thing, a big factor.
00:16:47.59\00:16:49.64
Media phenomenon,
00:16:49.65\00:16:50.62
which has being
targeted to the Middle East,
00:16:50.63\00:16:53.16
giving them a type of news
00:16:53.17\00:16:54.61
that we don't get
that is very sensational,
00:16:54.62\00:16:56.67
very Arab oriented.
00:16:56.68\00:16:57.91
And for people, many of them
00:16:57.92\00:16:59.67
who haven't had
access to any media,
00:16:59.68\00:17:02.22
let alone that. To imagine them
00:17:02.23\00:17:04.52
as I've seen them
in different countries
00:17:04.53\00:17:06.03
and that part of the world.
00:17:06.04\00:17:07.01
Probably in a coffee shop
00:17:07.02\00:17:08.18
where they don't
have a TV at home,
00:17:08.19\00:17:09.63
they're certainly
sitting there in a group,
00:17:09.64\00:17:11.03
they're watching
on a screen stuff
00:17:11.04\00:17:12.82
that is so shocking.
00:17:12.83\00:17:13.80
And it immediately bubbles up
00:17:13.81\00:17:15.71
in their society and
they're sort of cold to arms,
00:17:15.72\00:17:18.55
they're cold to action.
00:17:18.56\00:17:19.53
Yeah, it's not just the Twitter
00:17:19.54\00:17:20.51
and Facebook revolution.
00:17:20.52\00:17:21.49
I don't believe it that
it's Twitter and Facebook.
00:17:21.50\00:17:23.26
It's also the Al
Jazeera revolution,
00:17:23.27\00:17:24.54
Al Jazeera
revolution. Twitter or Facebook,
00:17:24.55\00:17:26.76
I believe is significant in how
00:17:26.77\00:17:28.53
they organize once they develop
00:17:28.54\00:17:29.99
this sense of dislocation,
00:17:30.00\00:17:32.52
that's sort of the final moment.
00:17:32.53\00:17:34.57
But with not cause
by Twitter or Facebook.
00:17:34.58\00:17:36.73
Well the Facebook revolution is,
00:17:36.74\00:17:38.41
there is a huge element,
00:17:38.42\00:17:39.71
a factor that is credible
00:17:39.72\00:17:41.26
and that is that
they're able to organize.
00:17:41.27\00:17:43.49
And actually get people out,
00:17:43.50\00:17:45.13
and to help other people
00:17:45.14\00:17:47.62
or to educate other people
00:17:47.63\00:17:48.87
as to their point of view.
00:17:48.88\00:17:50.17
I mean, yes, with
the advent of the blog
00:17:50.18\00:17:52.36
and then of course now
Facebook, Twitter, Al Jazeera.
00:17:52.37\00:17:56.14
I mean you name it,
00:17:56.15\00:17:57.22
all of these factors Googled
00:17:57.23\00:17:58.67
they all come together
00:17:58.68\00:17:59.71
to what form the
unrest that we have.
00:17:59.72\00:18:02.62
And one thing that I
don't think is remarked on
00:18:02.63\00:18:04.77
and we'll see how it
develops as far as civil
00:18:04.78\00:18:06.64
and religious freedoms.
00:18:06.65\00:18:07.83
I think by and
large well there's
00:18:07.84\00:18:10.02
a sense of self-determination
that Al Zajeera
00:18:10.03\00:18:13.40
and these other
elements have created
00:18:13.41\00:18:14.95
to give a sense of dislocation
from their governments,
00:18:14.96\00:18:18.07
and what were the governments
identified with, the West.
00:18:18.08\00:18:20.79
I don't think that this
is a pro western uprising
00:18:20.80\00:18:24.43
in the
slightest. And I don't think
00:18:24.44\00:18:27.18
it's pure Arab Nationalism,
00:18:27.19\00:18:29.53
'cause we've been
in that route before,
00:18:29.54\00:18:30.99
that had burnt itself out.
00:18:31.00\00:18:32.23
If anything Hosni
Mubarak was the ghost
00:18:32.24\00:18:34.65
of Arab Nationalism, finished.
00:18:34.66\00:18:37.10
I think this is sort of
just an area of self-determinism
00:18:37.11\00:18:40.95
that probably
cultural things like
00:18:40.96\00:18:42.88
religious
identity will kick these.
00:18:42.89\00:18:44.49
I think its generation too,
00:18:44.50\00:18:45.47
I think it's the young people
00:18:45.48\00:18:46.45
who are tired of the same
old autocrats and monarchs.
00:18:46.46\00:18:49.32
Okay, yes,
absolutely and what we'll see,
00:18:49.33\00:18:51.81
and this is, we're
getting back to prophecy,
00:18:51.82\00:18:53.52
we'll see whether
just a breaking of
00:18:53.53\00:18:56.46
all the historic and
social restrains of the past.
00:18:56.47\00:18:58.82
Whether that will
create an openness,
00:18:58.83\00:19:00.66
to a new idea, a new religion,
00:19:00.67\00:19:02.92
a religious awareness
that Islam can't have had.
00:19:02.93\00:19:06.29
When we're talking
about a Christian explanation
00:19:06.30\00:19:09.80
of Christ in tenth of the world
00:19:09.81\00:19:12.53
and it's prophetic.
00:19:12.54\00:19:13.98
Well, that's a mixture you see,
00:19:13.99\00:19:15.20
you see a secular
moment of some of these
00:19:15.21\00:19:17.68
young people, many of them,
00:19:17.69\00:19:18.75
a vast majority of them.
00:19:18.76\00:19:19.83
But there is still
that strong element of
00:19:19.84\00:19:22.13
Islamic fundamentalism
that comes through
00:19:22.14\00:19:24.56
in the unrest over in
the Arab-Muslim Middle East.
00:19:24.57\00:19:28.08
And to me it's a
significant factor,
00:19:28.09\00:19:30.05
because when you
put the two together,
00:19:30.06\00:19:31.48
you've got sort
of the mix as to why
00:19:31.49\00:19:35.69
they like Barack Obama.
00:19:35.70\00:19:37.77
Barack Obama
represents to them someone
00:19:37.78\00:19:41.14
who grew up with his
eclectic religion, yes.
00:19:41.15\00:19:44.25
I mean his
mother was an Atheist,
00:19:44.26\00:19:45.64
his grandmother and
grandfather were Catholics,
00:19:45.65\00:19:48.68
he went mostly
to Catholic schools,
00:19:48.69\00:19:50.36
so this idea that
somehow he's a Muslim
00:19:50.37\00:19:52.47
is a pure nonsense.
00:19:52.48\00:19:53.56
He converted to Pentecostal
forms of Christianity,
00:19:53.57\00:19:57.81
okay, and when he
finally ran for president,
00:19:57.82\00:20:01.72
he said to himself, you know,
00:20:01.73\00:20:03.11
I've got to identify
with one particular religion.
00:20:03.12\00:20:05.51
So he became a
Pentecostal Christian
00:20:05.52\00:20:07.28
just prior to that,
but it's significant,
00:20:07.29\00:20:09.82
because when you mix all
those religions together.
00:20:09.83\00:20:12.48
Okay, even his
father and his stepfather
00:20:12.49\00:20:16.46
were both jack Muslims,
00:20:16.47\00:20:17.96
what I mean by that,
00:20:17.97\00:20:18.94
they were
constantly getting arrested
00:20:18.95\00:20:20.25
by the police in Kenya
and then over in Jakarta,
00:20:20.26\00:20:23.81
his stepfather,
because they were constantly
00:20:23.82\00:20:25.48
denouncing Islam, yeah.
00:20:25.49\00:20:26.89
So, but if you take all
those eclectic religions
00:20:26.90\00:20:29.52
together then what do you get?
00:20:29.53\00:20:30.81
You get a sort of a
new age type president,
00:20:30.82\00:20:34.29
okay, all religions are good.
00:20:34.30\00:20:36.32
Let's peacefully co-exist,
00:20:36.33\00:20:37.77
let's get along together,
00:20:37.78\00:20:38.92
and that's... and that's
what he strives for, and so.
00:20:38.93\00:20:41.69
And I'm glad that
you brought this up
00:20:41.70\00:20:42.76
and I haven't really
thought this through,
00:20:42.77\00:20:45.22
not much myself lately,
00:20:45.23\00:20:46.40
this lies closer to
what we're told in the Bible
00:20:46.41\00:20:49.73
to expect at the
end of the time. Right.
00:20:49.74\00:20:51.88
It's really just
not a biblical word
00:20:51.89\00:20:53.82
but the word
that people should use
00:20:53.83\00:20:55.76
Syncretistic religion. Yes, yes.
00:20:55.77\00:20:57.53
That's the
characteristic of anytime
00:20:57.54\00:21:01.03
of great denial of the God,
00:21:01.04\00:21:03.15
you know when Israel
was most of its desperate
00:21:03.16\00:21:06.96
when they were sacrificing
children to idols and that.
00:21:06.97\00:21:09.14
They were still worshiping God,
00:21:09.15\00:21:10.27
but were Syncretistic
that melted it all together.
00:21:10.28\00:21:12.42
And we're told that at the
end of time they'll be having
00:21:12.43\00:21:15.09
a form of godliness
but denying the path along.
00:21:15.10\00:21:17.45
You can't just
point to Islamic extremism
00:21:17.46\00:21:19.49
as the great
threat or to new age
00:21:19.50\00:21:21.97
or to Evangelical
right or the interfaith
00:21:21.98\00:21:25.35
left or any of these factors.
00:21:25.36\00:21:27.74
You'll also have to
look at the new age factor,
00:21:27.75\00:21:30.48
the Syncretistic factor,
00:21:30.49\00:21:32.97
you have to look all these
factors because it's not just,
00:21:32.98\00:21:36.92
you can't just
isolate from one religion
00:21:36.93\00:21:39.33
and look at fanatics and say,
00:21:39.34\00:21:40.89
oh they're the big
threat, you just can't do that.
00:21:40.90\00:21:43.75
Well as they, maybe
we can talk about this
00:21:43.76\00:21:46.96
in another program.
00:21:46.97\00:21:47.94
But just a few days
ago now in Washington,
00:21:47.95\00:21:50.40
they started some
hearings on the role of Islam
00:21:50.41\00:21:53.33
in this religious
and terrorists threats.
00:21:53.34\00:21:57.14
They call it McCarthyism,
00:21:57.15\00:21:58.12
a new form of McCarthyism.
00:21:58.13\00:21:59.10
Yeah, I don't see it as
that but I see a lot of play.
00:21:59.11\00:22:02.39
And what I've heard already
00:22:02.40\00:22:04.09
and I've listened
to it a lot of it.
00:22:04.10\00:22:05.32
I think they're in
the process of... of,
00:22:05.33\00:22:08.25
yes not vindicating but
at least deflecting too much
00:22:08.26\00:22:13.50
paranoia toward Islam.
00:22:13.51\00:22:14.58
But the net effect is
that now all activist religions
00:22:14.59\00:22:18.93
are a suspect,
not just the radical
00:22:18.94\00:22:21.60
form of Islam that
gave direct rise to 9/11.
00:22:21.61\00:22:24.45
But to avoid, categorizing
00:22:24.46\00:22:29.20
or you know demonizing Islam
00:22:29.21\00:22:32.16
now they're
casting the guys around.
00:22:32.17\00:22:34.05
And so any religion,
whether it's Adventist
00:22:34.06\00:22:36.29
or some other group
that, that have an agenda,
00:22:36.30\00:22:39.32
end time agenda,
something specific to say
00:22:39.33\00:22:41.16
and we'll beat if
they say that the state
00:22:41.17\00:22:43.63
is headed it in
the wrong direction.
00:22:43.64\00:22:45.16
I think you very easily
now can be characterized
00:22:45.17\00:22:47.83
as an enemy of all
that this new global Pan
00:22:47.84\00:22:51.61
religious society
wants to accomplish.
00:22:51.62\00:22:54.10
I have a friend named
Gulzar Ahmed in Portland,
00:22:54.11\00:22:57.07
Oregon. And he's part of
the Oregon's interfaith alliance
00:22:57.08\00:23:00.61
which I'm also a member of.
00:23:00.62\00:23:02.10
And he's said it repeatedly;
00:23:02.11\00:23:04.62
you know these
hearings are actually good
00:23:04.63\00:23:06.36
for Islam because
it'll help moderate us.
00:23:06.37\00:23:09.29
It's exactly that what we need,
00:23:09.30\00:23:10.53
why fight it, it only
makes us look more extreme.
00:23:10.54\00:23:12.91
He's one for moderation
and he wants to present Islam
00:23:12.92\00:23:17.30
in the best possible light.
00:23:17.31\00:23:18.43
And I think that's good,
00:23:18.44\00:23:19.51
and I think that when
you have people like that
00:23:19.52\00:23:22.85
who are rational, it only helps
00:23:22.86\00:23:24.82
in that discussion that we
need here in America. Yeah.
00:23:24.83\00:23:28.88
Now, it's true, so your
point is certainly valid,
00:23:28.89\00:23:32.57
we shouldn't be so
focused on Islam because
00:23:32.58\00:23:34.53
on 9/11 this
country got a shock.
00:23:34.54\00:23:36.11
Prophecy does mention Islam
00:23:36.12\00:23:38.67
or arguably it mentions it
00:23:38.68\00:23:40.12
that the issue would play for
00:23:40.13\00:23:42.03
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:23:42.04\00:23:43.01
and for
Christians is loyalty to God,
00:23:43.02\00:23:44.62
preparation for
coming for the coming
00:23:44.63\00:23:46.48
of Jesus Christ.
00:23:46.49\00:23:47.49
And you and I
believe is Revelation 13,
00:23:47.50\00:23:50.77
there's a clear
indications that a nation,
00:23:50.78\00:23:53.47
that the U.S. answers the
description pretty closely,
00:23:53.48\00:23:56.83
a nation will actually
enforce a religious edict
00:23:56.84\00:24:02.37
or a series of
edicts probably that are...
00:24:02.38\00:24:04.44
that are contrary to
God's will at the end of time.
00:24:04.45\00:24:06.67
And singling out
one religion like Islam
00:24:06.68\00:24:09.85
is only a further
sign of the ties because
00:24:09.86\00:24:12.18
when all religions
come and unite together
00:24:12.19\00:24:15.63
on the bases of interfaith
ecumenism or interfaith unity,
00:24:15.64\00:24:20.09
then it would be
easy for them to target
00:24:20.10\00:24:22.45
one religion they
disagree with. Right.
00:24:22.46\00:24:24.37
And to me, it's a pattern,
00:24:24.38\00:24:25.92
it's a trend that won't
reverse itself overtime.
00:24:25.93\00:24:29.02
And you know, I need to say,
00:24:29.03\00:24:30.37
we make comments about
globalism now and then.
00:24:30.38\00:24:35.00
And lot of Christians
are opposed to globalism,
00:24:35.01\00:24:37.64
because we know
that it plays a factor
00:24:37.65\00:24:40.38
in end time prophecy.
00:24:40.39\00:24:41.75
But globalism
per-say is not illogical
00:24:41.76\00:24:44.13
or even inherently evil.
00:24:44.14\00:24:45.36
I think a world
that is being shrunk
00:24:45.37\00:24:48.91
by information
and interdependence
00:24:48.92\00:24:50.69
is naturally
heading toward that.
00:24:50.70\00:24:52.89
It's...it's, if what,
if there weren't a God,
00:24:52.90\00:24:54.91
globalism would be the
only survival of the race.
00:24:54.92\00:24:57.21
So, there's
logic and a necessity
00:24:57.22\00:25:01.63
to this global coming together.
00:25:01.64\00:25:03.11
But when you think prophecy,
00:25:03.12\00:25:04.94
when you think biblical truths,
00:25:04.95\00:25:06.39
and to see it all
mix into this big pot,
00:25:06.40\00:25:08.90
that's very problematic.
00:25:08.91\00:25:09.92
That's why our calling
as Seventh-day Adventist
00:25:09.93\00:25:11.64
Christians is to
defend, protect and advance
00:25:11.65\00:25:14.44
and defend the religious freedom
00:25:14.45\00:25:17.32
of every religious faith.
00:25:17.33\00:25:18.67
And that's very
important that we represent
00:25:18.68\00:25:21.75
the equality of
all religious faiths,
00:25:21.76\00:25:23.80
because if we don't go
and seek to protect them,
00:25:23.81\00:25:26.79
then what do we
have to say in the end
00:25:26.80\00:25:29.49
when they come after us.
00:25:29.50\00:25:30.47
We've got to be
totally balanced,
00:25:30.48\00:25:33.26
we've got to speak the
truth as it is in Christ,
00:25:33.27\00:25:36.70
but at the same time defend
our constitution to the hilt,
00:25:36.71\00:25:40.11
to protect their freedom.
00:25:40.12\00:25:41.53
We need to
defend the constitution
00:25:41.54\00:25:43.33
and never back off on that,
00:25:43.34\00:25:44.72
but as you well
know the Seventh-day
00:25:44.73\00:25:46.80
Adventist Christians,
00:25:46.81\00:25:48.07
God's word is the promising.
00:25:48.08\00:25:50.62
And it's a wonderful
concurrence of history
00:25:50.63\00:25:53.60
that the constitution in regard
00:25:53.61\00:25:55.07
to the separation
of church and state,
00:25:55.08\00:25:56.56
and the allowance
of free and unhampered
00:25:56.57\00:25:58.86
religious
expression, it guarantees that.
00:25:58.87\00:26:01.07
But the Bible is
the source of that.
00:26:01.08\00:26:03.34
Well, we definitely
face a world of unrest
00:26:03.35\00:26:05.80
and I think
that a, when you look
00:26:05.81\00:26:08.25
at all of the transpiring
events were coming down
00:26:08.26\00:26:11.51
the road to a time of trouble
00:26:11.52\00:26:15.36
such as we've never seen.
00:26:15.37\00:26:16.72
Now that maybe a
long distance off
00:26:16.73\00:26:18.74
or that maybe a
short distance off,
00:26:18.75\00:26:20.17
but I really
believe that a little time
00:26:20.18\00:26:22.94
of trouble is clearly before us.
00:26:22.95\00:26:25.41
Now how that is defined?
00:26:25.42\00:26:27.19
I don't know, I have no idea
00:26:27.20\00:26:29.10
but we have to
remember that as we strive
00:26:29.11\00:26:32.85
to have a relationship to Jesus,
00:26:32.86\00:26:34.72
let's remember
that protecting people's
00:26:34.73\00:26:37.22
religious freedom
and having a knowledge
00:26:37.23\00:26:39.12
based religion is all important.
00:26:39.13\00:26:41.32
Some of the
greatest changes in history
00:26:44.63\00:26:46.75
while they may seem
inevitable in retrospect
00:26:46.76\00:26:49.61
at the time are
barely explainable.
00:26:49.62\00:26:52.33
That certainly is
the case with the changes
00:26:52.34\00:26:55.53
that have been
going for sometime
00:26:55.54\00:26:56.82
now in the Middle East.
00:26:56.83\00:26:57.80
There's been a
spontaneous up swelling
00:26:57.81\00:27:01.29
of interests and demonstrations
00:27:01.30\00:27:03.52
of self determination,
00:27:04.04\00:27:05.42
mostly by young
people but not just
00:27:06.27\00:27:08.19
by young people.
00:27:08.20\00:27:09.17
Mostly by men, not just by men,
00:27:09.91\00:27:12.65
it appears that even in heavily
00:27:13.19\00:27:15.45
Islamic Middle
Eastern countries,
00:27:15.46\00:27:17.85
they want the self determination
00:27:18.26\00:27:20.45
that the Western world has.
00:27:20.46\00:27:22.15
This could be a great
moment for religious openness
00:27:23.14\00:27:26.26
which surely won't mean
the immediate conversion
00:27:26.97\00:27:29.29
to any other
religious view points,
00:27:29.88\00:27:31.10
but it may mean an
openness for dialogue
00:27:31.11\00:27:33.65
that we haven't
seen for for a long term.
00:27:33.66\00:27:35.09
We can hope that
even though this event
00:27:35.75\00:27:37.96
and other
cataclysmic events in the world
00:27:37.97\00:27:41.01
appear to signal the imminent
count of the Apocalypse.
00:27:41.02\00:27:44.30
At the same time it may
signal that God is about to move
00:27:44.69\00:27:48.73
powerfully to
open people's minds,
00:27:48.74\00:27:50.64
to a retelling of the
great story of salvation
00:27:51.32\00:27:54.54
and the wonderful
opportunity yet before people
00:27:55.27\00:27:57.71
while time lingers.
00:27:57.72\00:27:59.20
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:01.64\00:28:03.68