Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Melissa Reid
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000125
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00:22 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:24 This is the program that brings you news, views, 00:27 discussion, and just to update information on 00:29 religious liberty events around the world. 00:33 My name is Lincoln Steed, 00:34 Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:35 And our guest on the program is Melissa Reid, 00:38 who is Associated Editor for Liberty Magazine. 00:41 So, we're keeping it pretty much liberty 00:44 oriented for this program. Absolutely, 00:46 I can't think of a better way to do it. 00:47 Yes, a lot of our viewers know we do rotate 00:51 through any number of experts and other 00:52 religious liberty workers, yes, who have their 00:55 own different perspectives to add. 00:58 I want to discuss on this program blasphemy. 01:02 I don't want to indulge in blasphemy, 01:04 because anyone with the respect for religion 01:06 their own or someone else's will not knowingly 01:09 or would not want to offend by loosely or 01:14 outrageously presenting some of the concepts, 01:17 of course. The blasphemy has a long history, 01:19 doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. 01:20 Tell me if I'm wrong you know a little bit of 01:23 history too, but it seems to me there is an 01:25 apocryphal story on the Mayflower, 01:29 when they were coming across from England one of 01:31 the sailors ran to in drive and profanely 01:34 spoke of religion, like lightening. 01:36 Oh yes, descended on it, 01:38 I am pretty sure of that story. 01:40 I haven't heard that story. And that was the 01:42 popular view for many, for many hundred of 01:46 years back, and certainly in that era 01:47 that if someone took the name of the Lord in vain 01:51 or blaspheming against the holy things of the 01:54 church that you know heaven would strike them, 01:56 and if not heaven then it was the obligation of 02:00 the state and the religious authorities to 02:02 deal with such a person. 02:04 We certainly don't knowingly want to offend 02:06 another's religion, and we certainly know that we 02:08 are instructed by our Lord and Savior, 02:09 Christians not to speak blasphemy against God, 02:15 that said I agree we certainly have the history 02:18 of the government being involved, 02:20 and I think that's where we have the concern as 02:23 far as the blasphemy laws. 02:25 Since you have ever count a bit, 02:26 you know the Old Testament that 02:28 mandates this from blasphemy, 02:31 well yeah I, but that was the theocracy and 02:33 that's the wild card, it's not given, 02:37 it should not be given, and even in the Bible 02:41 it did not easily give the authority of the civil 02:44 state to execute things that were reserved for 02:48 the priest of, right right, and that was by 02:50 the first king of Israel got into such trouble, 02:52 he served that role. So and certainly in 02:55 our modern civil construct where we're keeping 02:57 church and state separate for the 02:59 protection of both. But it seem a blasphemy 03:03 law is very retrograde because almost by 03:06 definition it's setting out some sort of 03:09 favored form of religion, because you can't 03:11 say oh blasphemy. I mean we're probably 03:14 happy enough to "blaspheme" you know 03:19 the religion of we need the pew, you know some 03:24 could be some fantastic trivial thing, 03:26 right, right, and so it's not you know a 03:27 blanket thing, it would be used to support from 03:32 deformation a particular religious viewpoint, 03:35 right, right, and we don't believe the state 03:36 should be doing it. Right, and the reason why 03:37 we're talking about this topic, 03:38 today of course is the situation in Pakistan 03:41 who currently has a blasphemy law 03:44 on the books, and unfortunately we know 03:47 people have been in prison for it. 03:50 Yes, it's not really just on the books, 03:52 exactly; it's in the wall, and the roof of their 03:54 society. Yeah, I think, 03:55 I think they said last year, 03:57 it was a 110 people were accused of blasphemy in 04:00 Pakistan, and again so those situation haven been 04:02 accused you know that in the situation of the 04:06 housewife in that we in Punjab province, 04:11 in Punjab province, just a simple village woman, 04:13 yes, what it was she was out, 04:15 and she was a Christian woman in overwhelmingly 04:19 Muslim village, and the village 04:22 women decided that they would convert her 04:25 to Islam, right. So, while they are 04:27 fetching water I think it was, 04:29 they sort of set upon her, and barraged her with 04:33 request that you become a Muslim. 04:35 Right. And she said no, 04:37 she believed in Christianity, 04:42 she didn't believe in Islam. She didn't not say 04:43 anything specifically to vilify Islam, 04:44 but she said that she didn't believe it, 04:47 right, right, and that was enough, 04:48 they went to the Imam complained to him a few 04:51 days later, yeah, then he took it to the 04:53 authority saying that Islam had been defamed, 04:56 that Mohammad had been defamed, right, right, 04:58 and that alone was enough to invoke the 05:01 death penalty. Right and then of course we know 05:04 that events spilled out of control there, 05:07 the gentlemen who was the governor of Punjab 05:10 at that time gave an interview with NPR 05:12 on the situation, and let me just read you 05:14 little quote from there. He said this gentlemen 05:17 Solomon Tarsier is his name, 05:19 and he says before this no one was prepared 05:21 to discuss this law, it will set the mullahs 05:23 at your throat and I said that she should be 05:26 pardoned, talking about miss Bibi, 05:31 and this is a travesty and a shame that a poor 05:34 woman like this who hasn't the means to defend 05:36 herself against summed up charges, 05:38 and in the country where your prime minister is 05:40 Muslim, your president is Muslim, 05:42 you are 95 percent Muslim, so she is obviously 05:45 the religious minority there with the Christian 05:47 beliefs, very much so. What is the need for laws 05:49 like this frankly is for God to decide whether I 05:52 am a Muslim or not, and not some literate mullah 05:55 to decide whether I'm a Muslim or not. 05:57 And well this is the late governor of the Punjab, 05:59 exactly, that made that comment. 06:00 Right very soon after making those sort of 06:03 comments speaking out against this law he was 06:06 assassinated by one of his bodyguard, 06:09 and bodyguard has said the reason why he killed 06:12 the governor was because he has 06:14 spoken out against this particular law. 06:17 And it's interesting again justice is being sort 06:18 of taken into the hands of the citizen, 06:21 you know we mentioned that about 110 people 06:23 were accused of blasphemy in Pakistan, 06:25 and then some of those were then given the death 06:29 penalty. But it's more common that those that 06:32 are accused are killed or who speak out against 06:37 the law are killed rather than going to the just 06:39 system, they are killed by individuals, 06:40 by the modern mentality situations like that. 06:45 Modern mentality to the point, 06:46 but it's the mentality of the religious 06:48 community, right. In the one of the news reports 06:52 an imam said that he wasn't that concerned 06:54 whether she was released through the 06:57 legal system, because any good Muslim would 07:02 gladly kill her, yes, and sooner or later she 07:03 would be killed. Yes. And Pakistan is 07:04 probably one of the more egregious societies like 07:08 that in the world at the moment. 07:10 They, populous would execute that sort 07:13 of thing, the honor killings of usually 07:17 daughters, yeah, continues unabated, 07:20 never once has the state intervened to stop that 07:23 and people just rise up and exact this vengeance, 07:27 and it's incredible, you know I wouldn't like 07:30 to say that Pakistan I mean it would be false 07:32 that Pakistanis lack the normal human 07:34 sensibilities, they are like other people. 07:37 But the hold of this sense of religious 07:40 outrage is so strong on that society that people 07:43 will actually take what amounts to vigilantly 07:45 actions, so we got a double problem with this 07:48 law in Pakistan, it is a bad law. 07:50 But I think if the law disappear tomorrow, 07:54 we will still have the same phenomenon, 07:56 right, right, and we so we need to educate people 07:58 in this case in Pakistan, 08:00 even in the United States. I will jump across the 08:06 way people might not imagine many Christians 08:09 who are dealing with this gay marriage phenomenon 08:14 all the rest which is clearly in front to 08:16 Christians sensibilities need to be careful that 08:19 they don't make unduly inflammatory remarks, 08:22 and they don't react in the wrong way when 08:25 some of these non believing usually, 08:30 people make some rather very rude remarks about 08:32 faith, right, right. It can easily spiral into 08:35 the same vigilantly thing, would jump to another 08:38 connection that I can make. 08:40 I think this is not different from these 08:43 fundamentalist Christians in the Untied States 08:46 who shot an abortion doctor recently, right. 08:48 Sense of religious outrage but he 08:50 is going to take violent action to satisfy God, 08:53 right, I don't think God has called; 08:56 any God has called on us to do that individually. 08:59 Right, well you and I both have the privilege the 09:02 other evening of attending the first 09:03 freedom dinner down in Richmond, Virginia. 09:06 And one of our colleagues was honored, 09:09 we can talk about that little bit later, 09:11 but the lady who received the international award 09:15 you will remember her name better than I will, 09:17 but she is, Asmar Jahangir. 09:19 Yeah, this is special repertoire to the 09:21 Untied Nations for religion and belief. 09:23 You had been, had been, she is, 09:24 and she was not able, she was a Pakistani lady, 09:27 she was not able to attend, but her daughter 09:30 came and spoke on her behalf, 09:31 and I think I'm just moving, 09:33 moving speech she has been, she is in attorney 09:38 and she has worked in human rights cases in 09:39 Pakistan for the last 20 years. 09:40 So, she has been vocal, quite vocal about these 09:45 exact kind of situations she referenced in her 09:47 speech the other evening, the situation of the 09:51 blasphemy. And as we know people that speak 09:54 out of against blasphemy just look 09:55 at the governor of Punjab situation are 09:58 killed and so to have the courage and the 10:01 strength and the conviction to be 10:03 able to speak out in that manner, 10:06 and it's interesting one thing she said that 10:08 really struck me as representatives of 10:10 different religions we always encouraged this 10:12 inter faith dialogue you know we respect each 10:14 others comment, differences, 10:16 but we wanna discuss others comment, 10:17 commonalties. And she said in Pakistan it's just 10:20 not possible, there is not the climate to be able 10:22 to do that unfortunately between because you know 10:25 this one very dominant religion, 10:27 and then the minority religions. 10:29 That's fatigue, yeah, you were counting 10:32 that I was thinking yes dialogue is fine, 10:34 and most people like to or don't mind talking 10:37 with another religion in the larger sense, 10:41 and we have very good dialogues, 10:44 and you and I been part of them for some of these 10:47 with Muslims, with Mormons and 10:52 Scientologists you know you can go on and on, 10:54 Baptists even. Now there are some who are very 10:57 good friend, yes. You know, 11:01 we agree on that level, but when you got the 11:02 society that is overwhelmingly one 11:05 group or another, yeah they might talk 11:07 with someone else within their group, 11:09 they really don't have pluralism, 11:12 then the test is lot harder to pass. 11:15 And I think the U.S. has a great advantage 11:19 in that regard that till this point there has 11:21 been no one group that's had even large enough 11:25 minority to dictate to the others right. 11:28 So, it forces the pluralism, 11:30 forces the dialogue, right, but it raises the 11:33 stakes higher when one any one group is able 11:35 to get political advantage, they will then 11:37 revert I think to what is human nature as well 11:40 human nature in regard to religious activity. 11:43 Yeah, yeah, and I do want to also say we are 11:46 speaking specifically of Pakistan and situations 11:48 there, but in the article that I was reading on 11:50 this particular case, I did want to point out 11:52 there are several other countries that has 11:55 blasphemy laws still on the books there. 11:58 And Greece was the one that stood majority, 12:01 yeah, Greece, Poland, Indonesia, Egypt, Malaysia 12:03 Algeria, other countries. The US used to, right, 12:07 or at least the colonies used to have blasphemy 12:09 law, right. And all of Europe once did moved 12:13 somewhat away from that, but I think in some ways 12:17 the trend is moving back to it even though most 12:19 of this the rest of the world is affronted by 12:22 what's happening in Pakis, well in some most, 12:24 a lot of the rest of the world is affronted by 12:26 that. In essence we are tending to move back 12:30 toward at this recent resolution of the 12:33 Untied Nations about the defamation of religion, 12:36 yes, leads very quickly to this sort of maybe not 12:39 the death penalty, but to this sort of dynamic, 12:42 right, that would inhibit people speaking freely 12:44 about religion or holding and promoting their own 12:47 religion. Right, right, when he was talking about 12:49 just what exactly is blasphemy, what would, 12:52 what would fall under these particular laws. 12:56 And it says it's illegal in Pakistan for example 13:01 it's illegal to insult the Prophet Mohammad 13:03 or defile the Koran. Yeah that so often, 13:06 so often ended, it's just a way it gets. 13:07 Certainly we will come back after the break and 13:10 continue this. There are so many ramifications 13:13 on this topic, we will be back. 13:23 One-hundred years, a long time to do 13:26 anything much less publish a magazine, 13:29 but this year Liberty, the Seventh-day Adventist 13:32 voice of religious freedom, 13:33 celebrates one hundred years of doing what it 13:36 does best, collecting, analyzing, and reporting 13:40 the ebb and flow of religious expression 13:42 around the world. Issue after issues, 13:45 Liberty has taken on the tough assignments, 13:47 tracking down threats to religious freedom and 13:50 exposing the work of the devil in every corner 13:52 of the globe. Governmental interference, 13:54 personal attacks, corporate assaults, 13:57 even religious freedom issues sequestered within 14:00 the church community itself have been clearly 14:02 and honestly exposed. Liberty exists for one 14:05 purpose, to help God's people maintain that all 14:09 the important separation of Church and State, 14:11 while recognizing the dangers inherent in such 14:14 a struggle. During the past century, 14:17 Liberty has experienced challenges of its own, 14:19 but it remains on the job. Thanks to the inspired 14:23 leadership of a long line of dedicated Adventist 14:25 editors, three of whom represent almost half of 14:28 the publications' existence and the 14:30 foresight of a little woman from New England. 14:33 One hundred years of struggle, 14:35 one hundred years of victories, 14:37 religious freedom isn't just about political 14:40 machines and cultural prejudices. 14:42 It's about people, fighting for the right 14:45 to serve the God they love as their hearts and 14:48 the Holy Spirit dictate. Thanks to the prayers 14:51 and generous support of Seventh-day Adventists 14:53 everywhere. Liberty will continue to accomplish 14:56 its work of providing timely information, 14:59 spirit filled inspiration, and heaven sent 15:01 encouragement to all who long to live and work 15:05 in a world bound together by the God 15:08 ordained bonds of religious freedom. 15:18 Welcome back to Liberty Insider. 15:20 Before the break I was talking with Melissa Reid 15:23 about the blasphemy laws, and one of the current 15:27 situations in Pakistan. But it's worth going back 15:30 on blasphemy I think just to remember that while 15:34 this is egregious situation, 15:36 the concept of blasphemy has been 15:38 around for long time. And you know 15:39 Jesus Christ basically was executed for 15:43 blasphemy, right, right, when he was before 15:45 the Sanhedrin, they asked Him whether He is 15:48 a son of God. And the high priest, 15:50 when Christ said yes, he was so affront, 15:53 he ripped his robes, which under Jewish law 15:57 was mandated death for the priest himself, 16:00 high priest himself to do that. 16:01 But that was such an affront that taking away 16:04 should die and we can look from that point on not 16:09 just in Judaism, but in Christianity in Europe. 16:13 Blasphemy was accounted as capital offense not 16:16 taken lightly, and I think any true believer of 16:21 faith in there in itself knows that is one of the 16:24 worst things, you know the Bible says don't take 16:26 the name of the Lord in vain, exactly. 16:28 But we are not given to be the; the enforcer! 16:33 Yeah the enforcer or the agents of vengeance 16:35 for any faith, yes, right, and I think a 16:39 Christian particularity knows that the day of 16:42 God's vengeance is reserved for God, right, 16:44 and "I will repay says the Lord vengeance 16:47 is mine", right and of course, and under the 16:49 constructive religious freedom, 16:50 a civil construct we have to operate within the 16:53 laws of civility, and nonviolence. 16:56 Right, right, and unfortunately it looks 16:58 like in this contemporary times more and more 17:01 these are situations for individuals are being 17:03 set up. Well that's what it lends itself to very, 17:07 very easily, right, of course. 17:08 And with the vague sort of and you were talking 17:10 before the break about United Nations and the 17:13 defamation of religion situation there. 17:16 And I think lets explain a little bit to 17:18 our viewing audience. Again when we say these 17:21 things you know that it sounds like well 17:24 of course you know we're against people saying 17:26 good thing, bad you know defaming our creator or 17:29 redeemers, we think about as Christians, 17:31 but it's been interesting we as a 17:33 Seventh-day Adventist Church has spoken out 17:35 against these defamation of religion situations, 17:39 because and so have many protestant religions. 17:42 It's primarily been Muslim countries, 17:46 or organizations that have really pushed to have 17:48 these laws because again they are so very big, 17:51 the reason why we've been, you know spoken out 17:54 against them is because they have been so vague, 17:57 so broad, and it really does lend itself to. 18:00 Well that's why that even that they exist, 18:03 they shouldn't exist at all while they are 18:05 doubly bad, yeah, because their execution is bad. 18:07 But no, they shouldn't exists even I'd been 18:10 opposed to such a law even if it was $20 penalty, 18:15 right. It's still inappropriate, right, 18:17 for the state to be administering some 18:21 punishment for how you think or speak about 18:23 religion, your own or someone else's for that 18:25 matter. Right, right exactly. 18:27 So the lady that we mentioned earlier that 18:30 received the award the daughter attended. 18:32 She was one that was again very vocal on that 18:34 particular statement. And she had good reason 18:37 of course whether it's whole so of the cart as a 18:41 special repertoire for the United Nations. 18:44 In other word she is an emissary that goes 18:46 around investigating religious freedom 18:50 situations and reporting to them on what's 18:53 going on. I guess she was in that role because 18:57 she had a sensitivity before but particularly 19:00 dealing with so many around the world than 19:03 your own country she is doubly aware that this 19:07 is just not proper, yes, and very much in power 19:10 to speak at against it, and you have to admire 19:12 her and all like her, and there are many like her 19:14 around the world, yes. So, we tend to forget, 19:16 yes. It's easy to sit here on television and even 19:19 say something a little edgy which we are, 19:21 I hope we don't do too much, 19:22 but you know the consequences almost nil. 19:26 It's the worst generally as the people might stop 19:28 watching it, turn the channel, 19:30 the program might disappear, right. 19:32 But when someone like Asma Jahangir speaks out, 19:36 her life is on the line, right. 19:38 And her daughter was there in Richmond a 19:41 few days ago to receive the award for mother who 19:43 is because of legal concerns unable 19:47 to leave the country at that time. 19:49 But, how she will survive I don't know. 19:55 Even the prime minister of that country was 19:57 assassinated recently. So no one is above this 20:00 retribution, right, and her daughter we 20:02 heard had been abducted some years earlier, 20:06 and the mother had gone to the home, 20:07 and with others I think climbed over the fence, 20:10 and gotten her back from the abductees. 20:13 So this is the wild and wily, yeah, 20:15 western somewhat. Right, right, 20:17 now we certainly are blessed as Americans to be 20:20 able to speak so freely about our beliefs and our 20:23 convictions, and it's incredible like you said 20:26 you know to interact with individuals or to 20:28 hear about these stories. I mean this poor woman 20:31 in Pakistan who is now, who is currently still in 20:34 prison there. The governor was executed as we 20:36 mentioned but Miss Bibi is still in prison, 20:40 I think she has four or five children, 20:41 she is forty five years old. 20:42 Now this is a poor village woman. 20:45 Yes, that's the super tragedy that many people 20:51 would means or social connections can escape 20:54 this, but it's usually the poor people, right, 20:58 I use the word advisedly, but the ignorant 21:00 person, yeah, that get sucked up on with the 21:02 innocent. And now it's has become sort of 21:05 this national, you know there is this national 21:07 awareness around it, it's even I think more 21:09 troubling for her faith, because on the one 21:12 hand you know think that those that are 21:16 interested in forcing this law whether it's 21:18 through the law or like you said at the hands of 21:21 individuals who are passion about it. 21:23 I just, I certainly pray for this woman and her 21:25 family, because it doesn't seem to me like 21:28 it's going to be, have a good ending. 21:30 Let me throw in an interesting analogy 21:32 from an old film that I saw recently and 21:36 Dr. John Graz and I've been discussing it a bit, 21:40 you heard about it too. There is a film that was 21:43 well received many, many years ago 21:45 called the Seventh Seal by the playwriting 21:48 Ingmar Bergman, legendary Swedish playwright, 21:52 and it's almost like a morality play. 21:54 It wouldn't really pass muster under modern movie 21:57 conventions because it's really is a morality 22:00 play where a knight come back from the 22:03 Middle Age, in the Middle Ages from the Crusades 22:05 comes back to Sweden I think it is, 22:07 and it's in the grip of the plague, 22:09 and religious, prejudice, and natives religious 22:15 expression is running among. 22:16 People are believing that God is punishing them 22:18 with the plague, they are flagellating 22:20 themselves, and at one point he comes to a 22:24 little village, and here they are burning a 22:25 witch, but she is just a young village girl 22:28 who doesn't know anything and this guy looks in 22:30 the face, and he says have you seen the devil, 22:32 and she looks the demon uncomprehendingly 22:35 and babbling about Garbo protector, 22:38 and he says you know this poor little girl, 22:40 she doesn't have anything, and the rough soldiers 22:42 they are hoisting her up, inviting the fire, 22:44 and visually they are illustrated what was 22:47 clearly the fact that the Middle Age was 22:49 superstition run amuck, these cunning in-laws 22:52 where maybe on an interaction, 22:55 but more likely just some neighbor whispered, 22:57 didn't like this young girl, right, and here she 22:59 is hoisted up. And I really believe that this 23:01 is what is almost certainly happened to 23:03 this woman. The law is bad, right, 23:05 but the situation is egregious. 23:07 Right, it sounds like a neighborhood woman sort 23:09 of took advantage of the situation they had 23:11 some sort of falling out, or they didn't, 23:12 they didn't like that she want to maintain her 23:17 Christian faith, and so this is now 23:19 where it has gone. Our hearts certainly 23:21 goes out to her. Now we need to 23:26 make our viewers aware that this same occasion 23:28 in Richmond, yeah. This is the first freedom 23:31 foundation which is a very reputable religious 23:35 liberty organization based in Richmond, 23:37 of course Virginia, the home state of 23:40 Thomas Jefferson, and that's why it's 23:42 called the First Freedom, yes, connecting it to 23:44 Thomas Jefferson. They also honored 23:47 Dr. John Graz who has appeared on this program 23:49 many times before, right, several times, 23:52 and will appear again shortly. 23:53 We work closely with him; he is not only leading 23:58 the religious liberty for our well church of 24:00 Seventh-day Adventist, but he heads up the 24:02 Christian world commission as what's his title. 24:05 I don't know but, General, is he a 24:08 Secretary General, Secretary General, yes, 24:09 Secretary General, and the 24:10 International Religious Liberty Association, 24:11 and the International Religious 24:13 Liberty Association which is slightly older 24:16 vintage, even the Liberty Magazine 24:18 well over the 100 years. And is a Swiss 24:23 citizen still, he is very much the diplomatic 24:27 model of presenting religious liberty around 24:30 the world. So it was good from the point of 24:32 view what we're all doing for religious liberty, 24:34 and our shared commitments Seventh-day Adventist 24:37 to see him about this. Oh absolutely, 24:39 regulation, he is so, he was the national, yes, 24:41 award for their freedom award. 24:44 Yeah, he is so deservingly certainly that's why 24:46 wanted to make sure, show solidarity, 24:49 show solidarity yes. John, Dr. Graz, 24:53 one of the situation, one of the things that 24:54 he has feels encouraged to do is to travel around 25:00 the world. And I think he has been able to 25:01 attend some of these, because he holds these 25:03 festivals religious freedom all over the 25:05 world, and he not only you know do we like to 25:09 highlight, or do we feel it's necessary to 25:12 highlight situations where there is religious 25:15 discrimination, or religious persecution. 25:17 We also like to visit countries, and thank them, 25:20 and right, for the religious freedom that they 25:23 show their citizens are there. 25:24 It's a very you know public officials sometimes 25:26 come to different events that we organize, 25:28 but even when they don't come to such an event, 25:31 whether it's, one that he and I last, 25:33 I was last with him, that was in the 25:36 Dominican Republic and there were, 25:37 I think 20,000 or so people in the stadium 25:41 mingling around outside and all just yelling at 25:45 the innocent, you know thank you 25:46 for religious freedom, thanks you and it's 25:49 certain that the officials in that country would 25:51 pay attention, and that time when we were in 25:53 the country, they were in the process of 25:55 rewriting their constitution, alright. 25:57 And we heard from the minister of religious, 26:01 I think he was saying that they were consciously 26:03 writing in the separation of church and state 26:05 and the guarantee for full religion, 26:07 religious freedom. Oh praise the Lord. 26:08 Yeah, so that dynamic when people are publicly 26:11 showing their approval for religious freedom, 26:14 of course that reinforces the positives in that 26:16 country, and that's what we need. 26:19 Right, well congratulation so 26:20 much to Dr. Graz, and we feel honor to 26:23 call him our colleague, and we've certainly 26:26 enjoys ideas of your and Lincoln as the host 26:29 of the show, enjoy having him as 26:31 participate apparently certainly is a scholarly 26:34 man and well deserving of the honor, 26:36 and so we're just so grateful to be call 26:39 him colleague, and a friend. 26:44 This is sure blasphemy is a very troubling one. 26:47 It is true that in the Old Testament it says that 26:52 we're not take the name of the Lord in vain. 26:54 But also says vengeance is mine, 26:57 I'll repay says the Lord. The real issue is not 27:07 whether there is some consequence to taking God 27:08 or religion lightly, and speaking badly of it. 27:11 The issue is whether the state is to take it upon 27:14 itself to punish such miscreant or whether a 27:19 single religious group is to punish another for 27:23 speaking ill of their particular religion. 27:25 The security for all should surely lie in the 27:29 separation of church and state. 27:31 It should lie in the recognition that any 27:33 religion must be one that sinks the best of 27:37 fellow men, thinks the best of our fellows, 27:41 and represents the best in the higher values that 27:45 DAT represents to those around us. 27:49 Blasphemy, yes blasphemy exists, 27:52 but it is ultimately the highest blasphemy to 27:56 kill and persecute our fellows, because we do not 27:59 like the way they talk about what we ourselves 28:02 believe. For Liberty Insider, 28:05 this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17