Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is our program
that gives you information
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and discussion and
live breaking news on
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Religious Liberty
events all around the world,
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and particularly in the
United States and Canada.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
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Editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And my guest on
the program is Attorney
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Alan Reinach, I was
thinking, hesitating
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for a moment to think,
what other title should
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I give you? You're
with the Church State
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Counsel right?
Executive Director of the,
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Executive
Director, I hesitated because
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you're not
president, Executive Director.
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The oldest
Religious Liberty organization
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in the West almost 50 years old
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churchstate.org is our website.
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And we hope that
people check up on it,
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because you're doing
a great work over there.
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I want to talk about
something that's very
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much integral to
Seventh-Day Adventist
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proclamation of
Religious Liberty.
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You well know and
our viewers may know
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who watched this
program before that
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Liberty Magazine goes
back about a 105 years now.
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And our Religious
Liberty work goes back
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to the 1880s. And,
it was really set on
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its way by an editor
of the Liberty Sentinel,
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Alonzo T. Jones
and his co-editor was
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J.H. Waggoner.
Within our church there's
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still a residual
role of controversy from a
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proclamation that A.T.
Jones gave in the 1880s.
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You remember
that school, the 1888
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message for some people.
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What was your understanding of
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that event because I
think it's very pertinent
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to what is
happening today in, in general
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events and perhaps even
in the Adventist church.
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Well you know,
within the Adventist church
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there's some grasp
that Jones ran a foul of,
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of some in church
leadership because
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of his emphasis on
righteousness by faith.
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You know, when the
early Advent believers
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discovered the
perpetuity of the law of God
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and that the Sabbath
was still the Sabbath
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and had never been changed.
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They got very excited
and of course this was
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something that
they naturally wanted
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everybody to appreciate and they
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began to emphasize
perhaps over emphasize
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the law of God
and began to neglect
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the Gospel itself.
And what Jones was doing
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was really returning
the law to it's proper
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perspective in
terms of the righteousness
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of Christ that after
all no one is saved by their
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own obedience, by
their own performance
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we're saved by the grace of God,
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the righteousness of
Christ is imputed to us.
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And, our
performance is not the basis of
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our salvation. Well,
he got a lot of people
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very upset by his
emphasis on righteousness
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by faith and the
righteousness of Christ,
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but he also got
people upset because of
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what he was doing
with religious freedom.
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Well, that's the
connection I want to make;
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you gave a fairly
good analysis of his,
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of the tenure of
his revival message.
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And I think it's not
much different than any
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other call to revival
emphasizing the holiness
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and greatness of God
and, how, we were only
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saved through Him
and, and we're his servants
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and we need to
honor him more powerfully
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in our lives and our
witness. But there is an
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antecedent to, those
messages he gave in 1880
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because he, had
been powerfully promoting
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Religious Liberty
through Liberty Sentinel
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and then to Adventist
telling them the prophecy
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was fulfilling. So, in
any number of developments
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in the United
States progression toward a
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time of controversy over
the Sabbath in particular,
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he was fighting
developing National Sunday Law.
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And as I read the
material in the history
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and the story of A.
T. Jones, he deduced
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that since these
things were fulfilling,
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since a conflict was imminent.
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Therefore God's
people need to rise up
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and re-dedicate
themselves and in essence have
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a revival. This was, it called
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the times called for revival.
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Right, and if that
was true then how much
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more true. That's my
point. Exactly, today if,
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leading me there, I
mean I know among Seventh-day
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Adventist that I talked
to there is this general
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sense that we are on
the borders of eternity,
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that this world is in
such chaos and turmoil
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and insecurity. The
status quo cannot continue
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indefinitely, but
surely Christ's coming
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as at hand, but frankly
if that's the case it is
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way pass time for the
church to rouse itself.
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Ellen White who wrote
many wonderful inspiring
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things to early
Adventist says a lot about this,
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and I read a quote
the other day that chipped
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me a little bit and
it goes against what I've
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been trying to
promote on the revival.
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She says that
the great performance
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and I think she
included both the,
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the biblical
reformers and those in the
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Reformation. You
know, reacted powerfully
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and let out and she
says, we will not be able
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to act like them until
the crisis comes upon us.
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Its a very interesting quote.
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I've actually
seen it the other way,
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I thought that we
needed to have a necessity,
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a revive to
prepare for the crises,
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but she seems to
say that the crisis
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itself creates
that dynamic of revival.
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I would like to see
that quote, I really would.
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I, I should have
brought it with me, but it.
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But, I think you know,
I'm still sort of shaken
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a little from it.
The point, the point
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that I think you and
I are, are really seeing
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together is the
importance of religious freedom
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and revival going
hand in hand. Absolutely.
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And you know one thing
it seems to me Lincoln,
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our own Adventist
church along with many other
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churches puts
within Protestantism puts a
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great emphasis on
the personal relationship
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with Christ. And it's
easy for us to see revival
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and reformation in
almost narcissistic
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self-centered terms,
it's all about my renewing,
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my relationship with
Christ. But you know,
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I like to tell
church audiences you know
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I'm a lawyer, but I
get to preaching that there
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are more important
things in this world then
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you're eternal
destiny. Now, grant it it's real
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important to me
whether I'm going to heaven
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or hell, my
destiny is important to me,
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but there's a bigger
picture and as Christians
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we owe allegiance
to the Almighty Creator
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and His character
and reputation are being
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maligned in this
world. Right, both believers
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and unbelievers are
alike are saying terrible
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things about God. And
are we prepared to defend
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the reputation and the
character of the Creator
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before a culture
that's increasingly cynical,
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increasingly blasphemes
and sacrilegious in its
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attitudes towards the Creator.
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To me that's far
more important than
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my worrying about,
oh did I make a mistake?
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Did I do the right
thing? Am I reading my Bible
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enough? Am I praying enough,
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I'm I you know the
things what I'm doing
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you're not doing it can
be very not our religion
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can be very narcissistic instead
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of outreach oriented.
Even closer to the topic
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that represent in this
program, is it possible
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that our, the way
we, present Religious
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Liberty is narcissistic
and, and devoid of the
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real Spirit of what it
should be carried forward.
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I've heard too many
Church leaders define
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Religious Liberty
as you know making more
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time for us to
preach the Gospel,
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it's very selfish,
it's very narcissistic.
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Religious
Liberty is just you know,
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protecting our own
interest, no it's the
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golden rule, it is
the Gospel, Christ died
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to save the, all of humanity.
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And He's given
everyone the freedom to think
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and to believe and to
worship because a loving
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God gives freedom, love
and it can't be converse.
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In promoting the
true principles of
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Religious Liberty. We
in essence and this is
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A. T. Jones, are
preaching the character
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the Gospel, of
preaching the Gospel.
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It's, not a little
add on, this is it.
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No, it is, it's the
golden rule, exactly.
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You know we and,
and, and the golden rule
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is not so much
about coveting people,
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people's respect
and treatment of us.
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It's really other
centered, it's about okay,
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well of course you
don't want to be treated
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like that, so why are
you treating other people
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that way. You know
we know that we value
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the ability to worship
God the way we understand
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God in our own Church
culture, why shouldn't
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we extend that
same freedom to others.
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Yeah so you know, back
to the little history that
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I was trying to recap.
I think it was a golden
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moment where
Adventism which had began
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in a certain sense,
sort of narcissistic
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individuals
preparing themselves to,
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you know to stand on
their, no Adventist stood
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on Ascension Rock,
but you know they came out
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of those people that
you know, it was just them
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to prepare and
then the Church was,
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was fairly introspective
in those early days,
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but I think with
A.T. Jones it became a
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broader vision. A much,
it's a much broader vision.
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And so Religious Liberty
I think can lead the way,
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not only to revival,
but to a broader vision
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by the Church. And,
and I've been little
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troubled as I looked
around the some of the
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things that our Church has done.
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They're very self-serving,
the idea that we can,
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we would do it
anyhow, but that that we exist
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just to solve
problems of particular
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Adventists in the
workplace that we sort
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of like an insurance
policy for us, or even
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worse that we can be
the early warning men
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to tell our own members
well certain troubles are
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coming and now you
can shape up, you can
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hither to your
own, sleep, right,
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but this is the moment
you're supposed to come
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awake. Now I think
we should always be the
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watchmen on the
walls of Zion as the Bible
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uses that
figure. But, we should be
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proclaiming loudly as
Jesus said in Nazareth,
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the principles of the
Kingdom, release of the
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captive to set at
liberty those who are oppressed.
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That was Christ's first
sermon wasn't it? Exactly.
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At the synagogue
quoting from Isaiah 61,
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"The Spirit of
the Lord is upon me;
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he's anointed me to
preach good tidings,
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liberty to the
captives, the opening of the
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prison of them that are bound."
00:11:00.99\00:11:02.81
Liberty is fundamental
to the Gospel itself.
00:11:02.82\00:11:07.29
And I think the time
is right, but it's always
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been right, but it's the
fullness of time now for,
00:11:09.85\00:11:14.04
for our church
and indeed all people
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of good faith that
might watch this program
00:11:16.13\00:11:18.91
to recognize the times demanded.
00:11:18.92\00:11:21.27
We're in a time
that's drifting toward
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the abyss on many
fronts, certainly as
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we said in another
program, even in the
00:11:25.86\00:11:27.42
United States
that certain antagonism
00:11:27.43\00:11:29.32
toward true faith, the
practice of true faith.
00:11:29.33\00:11:32.28
Why not as we
speak Religious Liberty
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work toward a
revived Spirit of concern
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and care for our
country, for our fellows,
00:11:37.16\00:11:39.48
proclamation of
Christ's soon return,
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it's an exciting
moment. This should be
00:11:41.48\00:11:44.50
surrounding our
message of Religious Liberty.
00:11:44.51\00:11:46.69
Okay, but there's,
there's a basic, basic almost
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kind of a
schizophrenic tension between on
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the one hand with
Churches that emphasize
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the need for
repentance and holiness before
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the coming of Christ,
or we want to separate
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from the world, we
don't want to contaminate
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ourselves, we want
come apart and be pure
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and Holy and
overcome sin and be righteous,
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but on the other
hand we have an obligation
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to prepare the world
for the coming of Christ.
00:12:16.36\00:12:20.12
And maybe the Cross
that we have to take up
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and if Christ gave
His life to save us,
00:12:23.41\00:12:26.44
we may have to give
up our own pretensions
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of holiness and risk
contamination to actually
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go out into all the
world as Christ has given us
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the great
commission for a witness.
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And proclaim the love of Christ,
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I mean how can we
sit apart as it were
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in our Churches,
tell people to come to us
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and hear about
the love of Christ,
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but don't contaminate us.
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It's, was that parable of Jesus.
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You know the,
the invitation of the
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weddings stuff, you
go out to the highways
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and byways bring
them in, that's right.
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The regular guests are
not that stirred about it,
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but there's people
out there that if we can
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just invite them
that's something significant.
00:13:07.79\00:13:10.09
I, I'll jump to the
area that you might not have
00:13:10.10\00:13:13.55
thought of, but I
believe we're in a,
00:13:13.56\00:13:15.04
an area of world's,
the world's history when
00:13:15.05\00:13:17.64
some of the old
struts to human thinking
00:13:17.65\00:13:21.00
like Statism.
Communism, capitalism,
00:13:21.01\00:13:25.04
you name it.
Those don't hold as much
00:13:25.05\00:13:27.57
confidence for
most people as before.
00:13:27.58\00:13:29.42
Well, so even though
the world seems secular
00:13:29.43\00:13:32.56
and it's
probably is the secular as
00:13:32.57\00:13:34.25
it's ever been. The
openness to something
00:13:34.26\00:13:37.90
new people just
want something to
00:13:37.91\00:13:40.32
grab hold of, I
don't think it's never been
00:13:40.33\00:13:42.13
more evident then
now. Let me put it in a
00:13:42.14\00:13:44.47
different, as a
great need, let me put it
00:13:44.48\00:13:46.10
in a little different
philosophical context,
00:13:46.11\00:13:48.43
but I think we're
coming to the same conclusion.
00:13:48.44\00:13:50.28
For more than two
centuries the enlightenment
00:13:50.29\00:13:53.81
theory of progress of
human progress and the,
00:13:53.82\00:13:57.07
and human perfectibility
this posed a grave
00:13:57.08\00:14:01.29
challenge to Christianity.
And for two centuries
00:14:01.30\00:14:05.14
Christianity failed
to knock enlightenment
00:14:05.15\00:14:08.38
off our, off its
mark. That's true we,
00:14:08.39\00:14:12.68
we need to
comeback after a break
00:14:12.69\00:14:14.32
and continue this,
it's so engrossing that it's
00:14:14.33\00:14:16.41
hard to stop, but
we'll be back to talk more
00:14:16.42\00:14:18.31
about revival and
the enlightenment.
00:14:18.32\00:14:20.36
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:14:29.38\00:14:32.90
much less publish a
magazine, but this year
00:14:32.91\00:14:35.95
Liberty, the Seventh-
Day Adventist voice of
00:14:35.96\00:14:38.57
religious freedom,
celebrates one hundred
00:14:38.58\00:14:41.05
years of doing what
it does best, collecting,
00:14:41.06\00:14:43.99
analyzing, and
reporting the ebb and flow of
00:14:44.00\00:14:47.01
religious
expression around the world.
00:14:47.02\00:14:49.24
Issue after issue.
Liberty has taken on the
00:14:49.25\00:14:52.46
tough assignments,
tracking down threats
00:14:52.47\00:14:54.67
to religious freedom
and exposing the work
00:14:54.68\00:14:56.57
of the devil in
every corner of the globe.
00:14:56.58\00:14:59.22
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:14:59.23\00:15:02.10
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom
00:15:02.11\00:15:04.45
issues
sequestered within the church
00:15:04.46\00:15:06.08
community itself
have been clearly and
00:15:06.09\00:15:08.36
honestly exposed.
Liberty exists for one
00:15:08.37\00:15:11.66
purpose to help
God's people maintain that
00:15:11.67\00:15:14.77
all important
separation of Church and State,
00:15:14.78\00:15:17.62
while recognizing
the dangers inherent in
00:15:17.63\00:15:20.07
such a struggle.
During the past century,
00:15:20.08\00:15:22.82
Liberty has
experienced challenges of its
00:15:22.83\00:15:24.87
own, but it remains on the job.
00:15:24.88\00:15:27.35
Thanks to the
inspired leadership of a long
00:15:27.36\00:15:30.05
line of dedicated
Adventist Editors,
00:15:30.06\00:15:32.03
three of whom
represent almost half of
00:15:32.04\00:15:33.82
the publications
existence and the foresight
00:15:33.83\00:15:36.45
of a little
woman from New England.
00:15:36.46\00:15:38.55
One hundred years of struggle,
00:15:38.56\00:15:40.80
one hundred years
of victories, religious
00:15:40.81\00:15:43.61
freedom isn't just
about political machines and
00:15:43.62\00:15:46.30
cultural
prejudices. It's about people
00:15:46.31\00:15:49.50
fighting for the
right to serve the God
00:15:49.51\00:15:51.93
they love as their
hearts and the Holy
00:15:51.94\00:15:54.42
Spirit dictate.
Thanks to the prayers and
00:15:54.43\00:15:57.39
generous support of Seventh-Day
00:15:57.40\00:15:59.06
Adventists everywhere.
Liberty will continue
00:15:59.07\00:16:01.68
to accomplish its
work of providing timely
00:16:01.69\00:16:03.96
information,
spirit filled inspiration,
00:16:03.97\00:16:06.26
and heaven sent
encouragement to all who
00:16:06.27\00:16:09.04
long to live and
work in a world bound
00:16:09.05\00:16:12.32
together by the God ordained
00:16:12.33\00:16:14.14
bonds of religious freedom.
00:16:14.15\00:16:17.10
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:16:27.27\00:16:28.90
Before the break
with Attorney Alan Reinach
00:16:28.91\00:16:31.37
we were talking
about Revival, Alan
00:16:31.38\00:16:33.42
and you were
making a point about the
00:16:33.43\00:16:36.26
enlightenment
and how the views are
00:16:36.27\00:16:38.89
changed since
then. What Christianity
00:16:38.90\00:16:40.68
failed to do in
dethroning the enlightenment
00:16:40.69\00:16:43.15
in two centuries of conflict.
00:16:43.16\00:16:45.14
Christianity
essentially caved into modernism
00:16:45.15\00:16:47.97
and adopted Greek
ways of thought, reason,
00:16:47.98\00:16:51.14
logics and, and accommodated
00:16:51.15\00:16:53.88
itself to
secularism and in many respects
00:16:53.89\00:16:56.42
post-modernism has
absolutely demolished
00:16:56.43\00:17:00.01
and dethroned
enlightenment concepts
00:17:00.02\00:17:03.39
of human progress,
of reason as the basis
00:17:03.40\00:17:07.45
for meaning and purpose in life.
00:17:07.46\00:17:10.10
And, and the
human perfectibility.
00:17:10.11\00:17:13.32
That's true and I
think that. And because,
00:17:13.33\00:17:14.39
but post-modernism
has essentially said,
00:17:14.40\00:17:17.09
there is no
absolutes, there is no objective
00:17:17.10\00:17:20.66
basis for meaning and purpose.
00:17:20.67\00:17:22.50
And by depriving
people of any real foundation
00:17:22.51\00:17:27.49
it has created this
vacuum of meaning and
00:17:27.50\00:17:30.76
purpose in people's
lives that the Gospel
00:17:30.77\00:17:34.09
is designed to fill.
And that's what I was
00:17:34.10\00:17:37.15
gonna point out and
I think that's why some
00:17:37.16\00:17:38.75
people have taken the
same that we're not in
00:17:38.76\00:17:40.94
a postmodern era we beyond that
00:17:40.95\00:17:42.52
we're in the post-Christian era.
00:17:42.53\00:17:44.04
Well, Europe is post-Christian,
00:17:44.05\00:17:45.77
United States is
not the same way.
00:17:45.78\00:17:49.14
The United States
is a conundrum and we,
00:17:49.15\00:17:51.95
you know, we spend
lot of time discussing it,
00:17:51.96\00:17:54.25
many books are written.
I think it's structurally
00:17:54.26\00:17:56.95
very religious and,
and I try to make the
00:17:56.96\00:17:59.56
distinction in
liberty all the time.
00:17:59.57\00:18:01.15
I'm not so sure that
if spirituality which
00:18:01.16\00:18:04.11
is an understanding
and an exemplification
00:18:04.12\00:18:06.95
of the deeper
values of religion that
00:18:06.96\00:18:09.40
America has greatly
ahead of other places,
00:18:09.41\00:18:12.51
but the respect
for the institution
00:18:12.67\00:18:15.07
of religion runs deep here.
00:18:15.08\00:18:16.74
Its integration and
what it is to be an American
00:18:17.69\00:18:20.64
is rather unique at
least in the western
00:18:20.65\00:18:22.62
world and that's
state, but I think this
00:18:22.63\00:18:26.01
post-Christian
dynamic as it's present
00:18:26.25\00:18:28.66
in the United
States is elsewhere.
00:18:28.67\00:18:30.34
Well, there is no
question. It's the
00:18:30.54\00:18:32.21
consumer society,
it's the, it's the,
00:18:32.22\00:18:34.90
a culture where you
don't know your neighbor,
00:18:36.04\00:18:37.66
and so your a
psychological island
00:18:37.67\00:18:40.76
rather than part of a community.
00:18:41.10\00:18:42.33
All of this has
cut us off from history
00:18:42.52\00:18:44.54
and from the spiritual moorings
00:18:44.94\00:18:48.34
that gave people
even in desperate times
00:18:48.35\00:18:51.04
in the past, a
little sense of being that
00:18:51.05\00:18:53.85
they still knew who they were.
00:18:53.86\00:18:55.10
If you look at the
statistics and George
00:18:55.33\00:18:57.55
Barna has done a
good service to the
00:18:57.56\00:18:59.73
Church by consistently
surveying especially
00:18:59.74\00:19:04.94
Christians. And what we find is
00:19:04.95\00:19:07.09
Christians in
America today are a number
00:19:07.50\00:19:09.75
one Biblically
illiterate to great extend.
00:19:09.76\00:19:13.08
And number two,
they don't have a
00:19:13.36\00:19:14.63
biblical or a
Christian worldview,
00:19:14.64\00:19:17.16
their world views
are shaped to a great
00:19:17.48\00:19:20.90
extend by
FoxNews, not by the Bible.
00:19:20.91\00:19:23.71
Yeah,
absolutely. And it may come
00:19:23.72\00:19:26.27
as a shock to our listeners,
00:19:26.28\00:19:27.78
but there is a difference.
00:19:27.97\00:19:29.41
Yeah, now there,
I see there is many
00:19:29.42\00:19:31.82
surveys
including Barna's and it's,
00:19:31.83\00:19:34.63
it's amazing you
know, Bible characters
00:19:34.64\00:19:36.84
like Goliath and
that you can never count
00:19:36.85\00:19:40.59
on even a
majority of Christians even
00:19:40.60\00:19:42.35
recognizing those
simple things let alone
00:19:42.36\00:19:44.38
comprehending
concepts like the new
00:19:45.50\00:19:48.83
birth and so on.
So, it's not a question.
00:19:48.84\00:19:52.75
And this is true
even of those who
00:19:53.13\00:19:54.55
claim to be born
again. That's what I mean,
00:19:54.56\00:19:56.40
yeah. And yes,
it's true even those
00:19:56.41\00:19:58.73
that understand that or at least
00:19:58.74\00:20:00.45
understand what,
what it means to a
00:20:00.46\00:20:01.93
pointing of claim
to be a born again.
00:20:01.94\00:20:03.63
And I think it
gives meaning to what
00:20:03.97\00:20:05.19
Jesus said, you
know I think in a
00:20:05.20\00:20:07.20
darker moment and these earthly
00:20:07.21\00:20:08.92
ministries says,
"When the Son of Man comes,
00:20:08.93\00:20:10.79
will he find faith
on the earth?" Yeah.
00:20:10.95\00:20:13.24
And we probably
can't expect a massive
00:20:14.57\00:20:17.35
coming home of a large
part of the population,
00:20:18.25\00:20:21.04
but still there are
those that Christ wants
00:20:21.44\00:20:23.82
and will be
receptive when a message
00:20:23.83\00:20:26.14
has given. And, and we should
00:20:26.15\00:20:27.90
place it before them.
00:20:27.91\00:20:28.90
Well, when faith
become so shallow
00:20:29.54\00:20:32.81
it becomes very
difficult for the culture
00:20:33.93\00:20:36.08
to respect religious freedom.
00:20:36.09\00:20:37.85
'Cause when faith is
that trivial and that
00:20:37.86\00:20:39.88
shallow those who
actually hold convictions
00:20:39.89\00:20:44.07
so strenuously that
they will not compromise
00:20:44.32\00:20:48.97
say and work on
Sabbath or you know
00:20:48.98\00:20:51.90
take off a cross
or a Yamaka as part of
00:20:51.91\00:20:57.00
a business dress
code that become strange,
00:20:57.01\00:21:01.51
peculiar, and unacceptable in
00:21:01.52\00:21:05.59
our society. How dare you think
00:21:05.60\00:21:07.53
that you can
practice your faith when
00:21:07.54\00:21:09.78
you come to work
in your real life?
00:21:09.79\00:21:12.53
Now, faith is
for you private life,
00:21:12.54\00:21:14.49
go to Church and have faith,
00:21:15.08\00:21:16.37
but you come to
work and you leave
00:21:16.69\00:21:17.99
your faith at
home. Yeah, and that's
00:21:18.00\00:21:20.01
increasingly the,
the attitude that,
00:21:20.02\00:21:22.11
that we're
seeing in our businesses
00:21:22.12\00:21:24.11
in our courts.
Now, on a previous
00:21:24.12\00:21:27.74
program I have
mentioned something
00:21:27.75\00:21:29.45
that is
encouraging to me in my Church.
00:21:29.46\00:21:32.72
Recently at
general, World General
00:21:33.94\00:21:36.11
Conference Session elected a new
00:21:36.12\00:21:37.44
president, Dr. Ted
Wilson and to his credit
00:21:37.45\00:21:42.24
pretty much from
day one he has been
00:21:42.69\00:21:43.98
talking up revival
and need for revival
00:21:43.99\00:21:46.28
in the Church. And I
can't say that in a, a,
00:21:46.29\00:21:51.20
a grand scheme
of things that we've
00:21:51.21\00:21:53.18
had it here, but I
see many good signs
00:21:53.19\00:21:55.45
that it may
happen. And certainly any
00:21:56.66\00:21:58.21
religious leader
that talks, dedication,
00:21:58.22\00:22:01.48
renewal, and
reformation is doing
00:22:01.49\00:22:05.35
the Lord's business.
And I think something
00:22:05.36\00:22:07.11
very good will come of that.
00:22:07.12\00:22:08.69
But, when I related
again to Religious Liberty?
00:22:09.09\00:22:11.01
You mentioned the way defending
00:22:11.48\00:22:12.90
the rights in this case
of Seventh-day Adventist,
00:22:12.91\00:22:15.13
but we would
argue for the rights of
00:22:15.14\00:22:17.07
any person of
any faith Christian
00:22:17.08\00:22:19.07
or other wise to
practice that in the
00:22:19.08\00:22:21.18
workplace in
their life and so on.
00:22:21.19\00:22:22.89
And so, when we're
dealing with Adventist
00:22:23.35\00:22:24.99
where we arguing
and defending them,
00:22:25.62\00:22:28.17
that's fine, but
if the vast majority
00:22:29.51\00:22:32.17
in their daily lives are not so,
00:22:32.18\00:22:34.75
you know their
name is on the books,
00:22:35.05\00:22:36.75
but they're not
really that concerned,
00:22:37.27\00:22:39.00
they'll do
anything on the Holy day
00:22:39.53\00:22:41.23
that feels good to
them rather than what
00:22:41.86\00:22:43.09
the Bible says. They go to,
00:22:43.10\00:22:45.37
to Church on
Sabbath, but during the week
00:22:45.72\00:22:47.35
they're indistinguishable.
00:22:47.36\00:22:48.61
Alright, from their
peers, where does that
00:22:48.99\00:22:50.84
leave this whole Religious
00:22:50.85\00:22:52.06
Liberty revival dynamic?
00:22:52.07\00:22:53.75
What I'm, what I'm
saying Lincoln is this,
00:22:53.76\00:22:55.66
revival and
reformation in the context
00:22:55.87\00:22:59.06
of the coming of
Christ, with Christ coming
00:22:59.07\00:23:02.23
at hand must
include more than a personal
00:23:02.24\00:23:07.45
reformation of
our own morals, of our
00:23:07.46\00:23:09.74
own personal
spiritual disciples,
00:23:09.75\00:23:13.14
Bible study prayer
etc. It has to encompass
00:23:13.15\00:23:16.85
the final
proclamation of the Gospel
00:23:17.19\00:23:19.27
to the world.
And The Three Angels
00:23:19.28\00:23:21.30
of Revelation 14,
that we as Adventist hold,
00:23:21.31\00:23:25.06
hold dear. Where
the First Angel talks
00:23:25.07\00:23:27.70
about proclaiming
and everlasting Gospel,
00:23:27.71\00:23:29.84
but the Second
Angel, creator God,
00:23:29.85\00:23:31.93
the Second Angel
is a warning against
00:23:31.94\00:23:34.93
Church and State
uniting and becoming
00:23:35.40\00:23:38.27
oppressive and the
collapse of civilization
00:23:38.28\00:23:41.58
Babylon's fall
results from the Union of
00:23:41.59\00:23:44.68
Church and State.
The Religious Liberty
00:23:44.69\00:23:47.05
message is integral to the final
00:23:47.06\00:23:51.22
proclamation of the Gospel.
00:23:51.23\00:23:52.76
So, you can't
separate Religious Liberty
00:23:53.03\00:23:55.35
and the Gospel,
and you can't separate
00:23:55.36\00:23:56.99
the revival is
designed for us to give
00:23:57.00\00:24:00.15
these messages. And of course
00:24:00.16\00:24:01.88
the Third Angel's
message. But what I was
00:24:01.89\00:24:04.21
saying, that's
right. Religious Liberty
00:24:04.22\00:24:07.52
by definition is a
pointless exercise to be
00:24:07.86\00:24:13.32
advancing a right
for a people who are
00:24:13.33\00:24:15.44
not requiring
it, if you understand
00:24:15.45\00:24:18.84
what I've said,
if people are only
00:24:18.85\00:24:21.20
nominal that they're
not really concerned,
00:24:21.21\00:24:24.08
say what they,
and how they behave
00:24:24.09\00:24:26.51
themselves compare
to the, the principles
00:24:26.52\00:24:29.56
they adopt. What
dynamic is there that we
00:24:29.57\00:24:33.15
go and argue for
it and demanded it
00:24:33.16\00:24:35.03
of the state and proclaim it,
00:24:35.04\00:24:36.86
there has to be
these things have
00:24:36.87\00:24:38.58
to come in line. So, and that's,
00:24:38.59\00:24:40.12
if you hear
anything, but you're really
00:24:41.03\00:24:42.63
have Religious
Liberty coming into it's own,
00:24:43.72\00:24:46.33
it should be in
tandem with the people
00:24:46.34\00:24:48.48
who understand liberty
and are active about it,
00:24:48.49\00:24:51.32
what has to be a revival?
00:24:51.33\00:24:53.30
I think what I
hear you're saying is,
00:24:53.31\00:24:55.00
there's no point of
having laws that protect
00:24:55.65\00:24:57.33
their right to
not work on Sabbath,
00:24:57.34\00:24:59.62
if we're gonna go
work on Sabbath anyway,
00:24:59.63\00:25:01.68
right. That we obviously need to
00:25:01.69\00:25:04.93
first of all
internalize and value
00:25:04.94\00:25:07.49
the principles of our own faith.
00:25:07.50\00:25:09.40
And I'll give a secular example
00:25:09.41\00:25:12.86
which is in verse
you know it's fine
00:25:12.87\00:25:15.97
to talk about civil
liberties and protections
00:25:15.98\00:25:18.32
under the constitution,
if people are living
00:25:18.33\00:25:20.72
as slaves and if
they're willing to let
00:25:20.73\00:25:23.88
the government tell
them to do whatever,
00:25:23.89\00:25:25.61
doesn't matter
what difference what
00:25:26.53\00:25:28.48
the law says,
they're comfortable
00:25:28.49\00:25:30.00
with the most
repressive regime because
00:25:30.01\00:25:32.13
they don't have a concept in
00:25:32.14\00:25:33.64
themselves of
freedom. And people of faith
00:25:33.65\00:25:36.42
truly need to
live that life of faith
00:25:36.96\00:25:39.32
and proclaim Religious Liberty
00:25:39.98\00:25:41.29
or else it's just an abstraction
00:25:41.30\00:25:42.84
that is of no value to them.
00:25:42.85\00:25:43.94
Well, but
Religious Liberty is also
00:25:44.26\00:25:46.95
key to revival and to the final
00:25:46.96\00:25:50.37
proclamation of the Gospel,
00:25:50.38\00:25:51.67
because frankly
people don't care
00:25:51.68\00:25:55.07
what you know
until they know how much
00:25:55.08\00:25:57.44
you care? Right, and with our
00:25:57.45\00:25:59.83
Religious Liberty
work we are showing
00:25:59.84\00:26:02.28
the love of Christ
to people of different
00:26:02.29\00:26:04.57
faiths and building bridges
00:26:04.58\00:26:06.58
and
opportunities for them to come
00:26:06.59\00:26:08.82
to appreciate the
Jesus that we love
00:26:08.83\00:26:11.16
and serve. But,
it's not just per say
00:26:11.68\00:26:14.05
the love of Christ
it's I believe Religious
00:26:14.06\00:26:17.60
Liberty gives us an
expectation on the other,
00:26:17.61\00:26:21.26
behalf of the
others for to explain
00:26:21.27\00:26:23.62
ourselves and that explaining is
00:26:23.63\00:26:25.94
presenting the love of Christ.
00:26:25.95\00:26:27.25
Well and, and more
than just explaining
00:26:27.42\00:26:29.57
the love of
Christ when we work for
00:26:29.58\00:26:32.21
religious
freedom, we're proclaiming
00:26:32.22\00:26:33.68
something very
basic about the character
00:26:33.69\00:26:35.81
of God that the
Creator has created
00:26:35.82\00:26:38.52
the mind of men
free, and we're defending
00:26:38.87\00:26:41.53
everyone's rights
because of who God is,
00:26:41.54\00:26:44.87
so we're
proclaiming something very
00:26:45.12\00:26:47.27
fundamental to the identity
00:26:47.28\00:26:48.94
and character of God.
00:26:48.95\00:26:50.25
When speaking about revival it's
00:26:52.34\00:26:54.48
usually correctly
asserted that true
00:26:54.49\00:26:57.54
Religious Revival
should not just depend
00:26:57.55\00:27:00.00
upon emotion. I
look in the Bible
00:27:00.01\00:27:03.57
and read there
that King Josiah when he
00:27:03.97\00:27:06.69
came into office
after several wicked Kings
00:27:06.70\00:27:10.71
had ruled before
him, including his father,
00:27:10.72\00:27:12.48
inquired of the temple that it
00:27:15.86\00:27:16.83
should be clean,
cleansed and as they
00:27:16.84\00:27:17.92
cleansed it they
found the book of the law.
00:27:17.93\00:27:20.16
But, it's usually
thought of as antithetical
00:27:21.79\00:27:23.17
to revival, when
the words of the law
00:27:23.18\00:27:25.69
were read to
him, he rent his robes
00:27:25.70\00:27:28.02
and called upon
the people to seek
00:27:28.59\00:27:30.10
the Lord the result
was a great revival.
00:27:30.11\00:27:33.65
Today, we have separation of
00:27:34.58\00:27:35.65
Church and State, no theocracy,
00:27:35.66\00:27:37.56
but I think a true
national revival must
00:27:37.81\00:27:41.32
have start with spirituality and
00:27:41.33\00:27:43.93
reformation at the Church level
00:27:43.94\00:27:45.93
and the leaders,
true Godly leaders need
00:27:46.99\00:27:49.77
to seek the Lord,
re-institute through
00:27:49.78\00:27:53.56
worship and
recognized that their power
00:27:53.57\00:27:56.59
and the power of
the temple is separate
00:27:56.98\00:27:58.57
and the God's
spirit can move upon all
00:27:58.99\00:28:01.26
people throughout the land.
00:28:01.27\00:28:03.17
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:05.54\00:28:08.29