Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), John Graz
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000116
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00:21 Welcome to the Liberty Insider, this is the
00:24 program that brings you up-to-date news, views, 00:27 information, discussion on religious 00:30 liberty questions. My name is Lincoln Steed, 00:33 Editor of Liberty Magazine 00:35 and my guest on the program is Dr. John Graz. 00:38 Yes. Dr. Graz, I wanna talk a little bit about 00:41 the United Nations with you. 00:44 I'll give you a chance to explain, but let me 00:46 give you an interesting illustration. 00:49 United Nations for many in the United States 00:52 and I can't speak for much of the rest of the world, 00:55 but in the United States more and more is just seen 00:57 as a bunch of talking heads that say something 00:59 very irrelevant to what goes on 01:01 in the country at large. But recently people's 01:04 attention was caught by Ahmadinejad from Iran 01:08 going on and on about his private, yeah, 01:12 Prophetic Utterances of Islam. You know 01:17 is that really the role of the United Nations? 01:19 You know United Nations is the Nation together. 01:23 It means people come they represent their 01:25 country and they can speak. They can speak 01:28 about, it's a forum isn't it, people forget that. 01:29 Yeah, exactly, it's a forum. Of course there are 01:32 many programs you know run by the United Nations. 01:36 Some are very, very positive, you know 01:38 a program to help people, refugees and so many, 01:41 many humanitarian programs. 01:43 There is also a program which is important is the 01:45 defense and the promotion of human rights. 01:48 You know if you go to Geneva, three times a year 01:52 you have The Council of Human Rights. 01:54 It's a meeting where all countries are there and 01:57 as NGOs, It means Non Governmental Organization. 02:01 We have the right to speak and we have the right to 02:05 defend and to promote religious freedom before 02:08 the government of the world. That, it gives us 02:11 a fabulous privilege. We have the right 02:14 to make these points. And you go through. 02:16 Yeah we go, we attend, we attend you know 02:18 my Associate James Standish. Then now my 02:22 Associate Barry Bussey represent us at the 02:25 United Nation. It means when he speaks you know 02:28 he speaks before all the Nation of the world 02:31 and after you have the possibility to meet 02:33 Ambassadors, Representatives and talk 02:37 about some case and you can help really. You can, 02:40 when you speak you know you speak about 02:42 religious freedom. You can say that 02:44 people are persecuted in this country. 02:46 And after the country, most of the time 02:49 the countries mentioned will answer, will say 02:51 no its not true or most of the time they will say 02:54 it's not true, but you know before they will ask 02:57 their government. What about this case 03:00 and it means you'll start, you open a dialogue 03:03 with them and they are aware 03:05 that people are looking at them. 03:06 And I'm sure there are some cases where they 03:08 are not really that sensitive to what's 03:10 happening and when it's explained in the way that 03:13 we see it, they might then be more inclined to go 03:15 back and re-examine the treatment of the segment. 03:18 Exactly they have to do that, because they want 03:19 to give a rational answer. Yes. And it means you 03:22 know you cannot do what you want to do, but 03:25 of course the other side is you know most of these 03:28 Nation represented at the Human Right Council 03:31 are not really respecting human rights. 03:35 And they are the majority most of the time 03:37 and also sometime they can propose a very dangerous 03:42 low or not low, but regulation or resolution. 03:45 What recent deformation of religion. 03:47 Yeah which can become low. You know this question 03:50 about deformation of religion. It was proposed 03:53 in 1990 before the year 2000 by the 03:57 Islamic Organization. A conference of Islamic. 04:00 And Islamic the major Islamic Organization. 04:03 And what they wanted. They wanted to propose 04:06 to protect Islam against critics and attacks, 04:12 verbal attacks and they proposed these resolutions 04:16 and of course people were aware that you cannot 04:19 have a resolution just to protect Islam. 04:22 You have to, yeah to protect religion, 04:25 but it was mainly all the Muslim countries which 04:28 were behind. It means you know it was a 04:30 coalition of more or less 50 countries. 04:33 A very strong coalition at the United Nation. 04:38 And apparently it seems to be a good resolution 04:42 because it wants you know the resolution wants 04:44 to defend religious religions to protect 04:47 religion against attack. But of course. 04:50 Against deformation, against deformation, 04:51 but you have to understand that it will 04:53 give a strong limit, strong restriction 04:56 to the freedom of expression. Yeah. 04:58 And now you have two things. 04:59 You want to protect religions against attack 05:03 or do you want the freedom of expression and the 05:05 right to say we disagree with this religion. 05:08 We don't believe what this religion is teaching 05:12 and that's a very important point, because 05:14 if you say okay we have to protect religion, 05:17 that's a good point. But it means that 05:19 what kind of religion will be protected. 05:21 Probably not the small one. Right yeah. 05:24 The big one and it will be used. And it's in a 05:26 prejudicial way, I mean in reality to then other 05:30 religious viewpoints. Yeah. But we, this is a 05:33 very bad development, but the United Nations 05:36 has been to the forefront with its universal 05:39 declaration of human right. Yeah. Which is, 05:41 And that is a good statement in some ways 05:43 equal, well I shouldn't say better, but certainly 05:46 equal to the principles laid down in the U.S. 05:48 Constitution of freedom of religion. 05:50 Yeah, you know the influence of the Western 05:52 countries and especially the democracy after 05:55 the second world war was essential. 05:58 It was done by the U.S., the England 06:01 and the other Allies. You know it would be 06:04 very difficult today to have such a document. 06:07 It was almost the perfect documents at this time 06:10 and today these document, these declaration 06:13 is attacked, of course from the universal 06:16 declaration of human rights, you had several 06:18 other very important document taking the 06:21 syntax like you know about religious freedom. 06:25 You have convention. You know International 06:27 Convention you have many many of the documents 06:30 taking Article 18 and in many constitution in 06:34 several countries you know you have Article 18 06:38 in their own constitution and Article 18 is the best 06:43 definition of religious freedom. But today 06:46 you know today several governments attack these 06:50 Article 18 and universal declaration of human 06:53 rights and of course the United Nation is the place 06:57 where you know you have to be to protect and 07:00 to defend these human rights declarations. 07:02 So you're comfortable with the organization. 07:05 You don't see it as anti-critical just as 07:08 civil religious liberties. No I think we 07:09 cannot have, yeah we can a lot of critics 07:11 and a lot of criticism about the organization. 07:14 You know it's too big, they spend too much money. 07:17 And it's a man made convention or man made 07:20 organization. It's not very efficient, but as a 07:23 forum that's a very important point. 07:27 It is worth reminder some of our viewers 07:29 who incline toward conspiracy theories. 07:32 The United Nations, while it has plenty of troubles 07:35 and some of the voices that we hear 07:38 there are troubling at times. 07:40 The United Nations doesn't really answer to the 07:42 conspiracy theories vision of the sinister 07:46 worldwide controlling organization. 07:48 It's much weaker than it would like to be. 07:50 Oh! Yes. Then it's founders intended. 07:53 But it's unequal forum for the nations 07:56 to talk together. Yes, exactly, exactly. 07:57 You should attend the meeting there to see 07:59 the diversity and we are far away from United body. 08:04 You know that's incredible. It's a place 08:06 where people are very different. They are 08:08 opposing all the time, most of the time you 08:11 know and but for us you can imagine for us 08:16 a small group, you know having the possibility 08:19 to speak to the world nations. You know its 08:24 United Nation for us. That's a fabulous 08:26 opportunity and we have to take it. 08:30 We have to take advantage of it. We made people 08:32 imagine just a place where you have maybe 08:35 400 people and these 400 people represent all the 08:40 government of the world. It's amazing. And you are 08:43 in and you have the right to talk with them. 08:46 You have the right to talk about religious freedom. 08:49 You have the right to talk about your church, 08:51 you have the right to visit the Ambassador. 08:53 Most of them they expect it. They expect, 08:55 they expect, they respect you. You know when you 08:58 go there, they don't say who are you. They will say 09:01 hey how are you doing. That's we NGO credentials. 09:05 Mr. Ambassador or Mr. Minister, 09:06 Mr. Ambassador. I represent 09:08 the Adventist Church. I represent the 09:09 International Religious Liberty Association 09:12 and we have some problems in your country. 09:14 You know what you could have done to reach 09:17 to the same result outside of the United Nations 09:20 and this is why we need them. 09:22 I think it providential that we have that. 09:24 Exactly, it's providential. 09:25 We need to have, to understand that. 09:29 That's a fabulous opportunity it may not 09:31 last all the time. The organization is far away 09:34 to be a perfect organization. There are 09:36 many, many weak point, weak aspect of these 09:40 organization, but it gives us the possibility to talk 09:45 with the representative of the Nations of the world, 09:48 about us and about religious freedom. 09:51 Exactly, for those who don't know the history 09:54 it seems to me from my reading of history that 09:56 President Wilson's grand idea the League of Nation 10:01 was far more what people accuse United Nations 10:05 of wanting to be. It was a league, 10:08 a political league for control of 10:11 some of the activities of the nations. 10:12 The United Nations was designed 10:15 to create a forum. Yes. And somewhere I think 10:19 it's not as prominent as it should be, 10:21 as that statement about they shall beat 10:22 these swords into plashes and so on. 10:24 So it was a pessimist egalitarian vision 10:28 that they have there. Lincoln, it was the answer 10:30 to the two world wars. Yeah. You know the first 10:33 world war, people say we should do something. 10:37 We should speak together when we have a problem 10:39 instead to fight and the result is million, 10:42 million, million people are killed. 10:44 You know the first world was terrible about that. 10:47 Right. It kills Europe. We should talk together, 10:50 we should find a place where people can talk 10:52 together and the second world war was almost 10:56 the worst you know. Yeah. We put all the world 10:59 upside down and they said no, 11:01 now we have to talk together. 11:02 We have to avoid this kind. 11:05 But my point is the first one the league 11:07 was between the two wars. Yeah. 11:08 The League of Nations and I think it was a 11:10 continuation of what caused world war one, 11:14 unbridled alliances, it's the great power. Yeah. 11:17 It's thinking they can order the world and now 11:19 we're gonna bring them all into one organization, 11:21 the League of Nations. Yeah. 11:22 It was the Alliances that caused it. 11:24 But after the total destruction of 11:26 world war two, I think then it was wow, 11:29 the world's fallen down around areas. 11:31 Let's have a real forum for discussion. 11:33 That was the only place where some countries 11:36 have the possibility to talk together. 11:38 Even if they oppose, if they attack each other 11:41 they still have the possibility to 11:43 to talk to each other. Yeah and unfortunately 11:48 some of the constituency in the U.S. 11:50 now and then say well Cuba or some one they 11:52 shouldn't talk there, but why not. 11:54 It's precisely because we have got these 11:56 enemies or these people that really 11:58 logically opposed, why not give them the chance 12:00 where we can see them face to face and explain 12:03 our viewpoint here, because often 12:05 communication is needed. And you can imagine the 12:07 role of a country like the U.S. defending human 12:10 rights before all the government of the world 12:13 saying the human right is important, religious 12:16 freedom is important. It's a very important role 12:19 and responsibility. Exactly, exactly 12:22 and I'm so glad that we have a full time 12:24 or very close to a full time representatives 12:26 there from your office Barry Bussey, yeah, 12:30 is gonna carry on this liaison which is in 12:32 New York and in Geneva. Yeah. So that there are 12:36 many things to cover and I know you do it too 12:39 of course, but that's his lead role. After the 12:43 break we'll come back and discuss a little bit 12:45 more some of these important global issues, 12:47 but thank you for staying with Liberty Insider. 13:01 One-hundred years, a long time to do anything 13:05 much less publish a magazine, but this year 13:08 Liberty, the Seventh-Day Adventist voice of 13:11 religious freedom, celebrates one hundred 13:13 years of doing what it does best, collecting, 13:16 analyzing, and reporting the ebb and flow of 13:19 religious expression around the world. 13:21 Issue after issues, Liberty has taken on the 13:25 tough assignments, tracking down threats 13:27 to religious freedom and exposing the 13:28 work of the devil in every corner of the globe. 13:31 Governmental interference, personal attacks, 13:34 corporate assaults, even religious freedom 13:37 issues sequestered within the church community 13:39 itself have been clearly and honestly exposed. 13:42 Liberty exists for one purpose to help 13:45 God's people maintain that all the important 13:48 separation of Church and State, while recognizing 13:51 the dangers inherent in such a struggle. 13:54 During the past century, Liberty has experienced 13:56 challenges of its own, but it remains on the job. 14:00 Thanks to the inspired leadership of a long line 14:02 of dedicated Adventist Editors, three of whom 14:05 represent almost half of the publications 14:07 existence and the foresight of a little 14:09 woman from New England. 14:11 One hundred years of struggle, 14:13 one hundred years of victories, 14:15 religious freedom isn't just about political 14:18 machines and cultural prejudices. 14:20 It's about people fighting for the right to serve 14:23 the God they love as their hearts 14:26 and the Holy Spirit dictate. 14:28 Thanks to the prayers and generous support 14:30 of Seventh-Day Adventists everywhere. 14:33 Liberty will continue to accomplish its work of 14:35 providing timely information, 14:37 spirit filled inspiration, and heaven sent 14:39 encouragement to all who long to live and work 14:43 in a world bound together by the God 14:46 ordained bonds of religious freedom. 14:57 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider, 15:00 before the break we were talking, 15:01 I was talking with Dr. John Graz about the 15:03 United Nations and the opportunity that that 15:06 organization provides for us, our church for 15:09 religious liberty representatives to 15:11 dialogue with representatives from 15:13 countries all over the world. It's a fantastic 15:16 organization. Yeah, I don't, I will not say 15:19 it's a fantastic organization. 15:20 I will say it's a fantastic opportunity. 15:22 Exactly I thought any number of people 15:25 would criticize. Yeah because, 15:27 we are not sure that it's a fantastic. 15:28 But what I mean is it provides a fantastic 15:30 opportunity. It provides oh yeah, oh yeah. 15:31 You know it has never happened in all history 15:35 to have all the countries together for civil 15:37 meetings and so on talking to each other. 15:40 That's also something very interesting. 15:42 And it has to be a grand aspiration of mankind. 15:44 Yeah, but now you know those who represent that 15:46 these countries are together, they are united 15:48 and they want to dominate the world. 15:51 That's not where it is today. Well. 15:53 A lot of division, a lot of conflict, 15:55 a lot of. It's not quite to say you know 15:57 some of these fanciful Science Fiction Movies, 15:59 they always have a global council. 16:01 It maybe the dream of some people. 16:03 You know probably you know some people are 16:05 dreaming about you know if I could be the leader. 16:09 The great leader of such organization, but its far 16:13 more complicated than that. Exactly. 16:18 You don't know what I'm going to bring up next, 16:20 but I'd like to hear your comment on 16:23 part of the world not quite a united part, 16:26 but it's under the European Union, 16:27 so they are trying for their union. 16:29 In the European Union we've seen a phenomenon 16:32 where countries that once were very religious, 16:36 but now seem quite secular. Secular yeah. 16:39 But spontaneously, we'll see how spontaneously, 16:43 but popping up in different countries 16:45 has a been a call for a 16:47 sort of a national day of rest. 16:49 A family day of rest. Yeah, yeah it means 16:52 you know it was, there is a story behind. 16:55 In Europe, in most of the country you have what 16:58 we call the Sunday Law. It means normally in most 17:01 of the European country, you don't work on Sunday. 17:04 Even in some countries like Switzerland 17:07 where I lived ten years you know in Bern. 17:10 The Canton of Bern. You know you have no right 17:13 to make, to garden on Sunday. 17:15 You have no right to use your vehicle on Sunday. 17:19 They have many restrictions on 17:20 on many many things, but people go to the 17:23 you know winter station, a resort or they do many 17:26 many other things and it is not against to those 17:29 who don't work on Saturday. It means it 17:32 doesn't affect us. You know it means just don't 17:36 work on Sunday and you will have peace, you will 17:38 have no problems on Saturday, but you know 17:41 some of the countries try to change that. 17:44 And especially the business world. 17:46 They would like to have Sunday open for any 17:50 kind of business. Because now in some countries 17:54 except Sunday. The exception is, 17:55 if you are living in a touristic place 17:58 you can have a shop open on the Sunday, 18:01 but if you are not you cannot. 18:03 It means in the city like Lausanne, if your shop 18:07 is close to the beach or not to the beach 18:09 to the lake it listed as a touristic place. 18:13 You can open and of course you make a lot of 18:15 money, but the other one just the opposite 18:18 you know just you cross the street your shop 18:21 is not classified as touristic. 18:24 You have no right to open your shop on Sunday. 18:27 It means people you know say why, 18:29 why you have this kind of exception. 18:31 Everyone should be, should have the right 18:33 to open their shops on Sunday and people 18:37 will come and they will buy and you will 18:39 have more employment. This is why in many states. 18:44 You know that's the tendency, but yet the. 18:45 The State say we should open on Sunday. 18:46 This law if it can be called a law is to carve 18:49 out Sunday as a family it's not a work day. Yeah, 18:51 it means you know now to continue the story and 18:55 I think it was in 2003 the European Working Rules 19:00 you know the rules about the work, workers in 19:03 Europe. It take off in the text the word Sunday. 19:08 They say that you know why we should rest on 19:10 Sunday. You know that's important for the workers 19:13 to rest, but if you put Sunday it's really already 19:17 religious and they took off Sunday. In a sense for 19:21 good and right reason. Yeah for the right reason 19:23 saying that there is no special day. You know 19:26 which is important is to rest for the worker. 19:29 They need to rest for the family. The reaction of 19:32 the union and especially the religions and I'm sure 19:36 that the religious organization and churches 19:38 show these items as opportunity. 19:41 Yeah an opportunity to say hey we are still here. 19:43 But they didn't know, they didn't create this. 19:45 No, no, no. This bubbled up from a more 19:47 secular rational, but they joined. And they don't 19:50 come from religious reason you know they say 19:54 that's you know on a family life, on a 19:57 psychological life and so on. It's good to have a 20:01 Sunday as a day of a rest and they ask and they 20:04 propose a new resolution. They would like Sunday 20:07 be back in the text about the day of rest in Europe. 20:11 And there was for the moment they're 20:12 a minority, but you know as you say the religious 20:15 group the churches saw as an opportunity in a secret 20:21 society to say a we are still here, we don't want 20:24 to let you to do what you want, we are still in. 20:26 Now Lincoln, there is a question what do we have 20:29 to do if we disagree with that. 20:31 I know it's a case 22. I think for Seventh Day 20:36 Adventists who have an understanding that the 20:38 year of compulsion of the middle ages will be 20:41 revisited at the very end of time probably even in 20:44 the United States and Sunday is likely to be, 20:47 Sunday worship is likely to be the main issue. 20:50 We see this is very telling, yeah for us. 20:52 But on it's own certain merits, I'm not sure you 20:55 you can easily oppose it. You know what I should 20:57 say it was by advise to our European friends 21:02 and when they ask the question. I should say 21:04 that don't oppose to these resolution, but, but ask 21:08 them. What about those who don't have Sunday 21:12 as a day of rest. Yeah. It means we understand 21:15 you, you know you have a good reason, you know 21:17 that is part of our tradition in Europe 21:19 and so on. But you know remember there are 21:23 other people, other believers who don't have 21:26 Sunday as a day of rest, what about them? 21:28 and I would propose to those who are behind 21:32 these resolution to put something about those 21:35 who don't have Sunday as a day of rest. 21:37 It means we want to Sunday back, but we want people 21:40 the day of rest of other people be respected too, 21:44 and this is what they did. And do you know they did, 21:47 but of course you know those who are 21:50 pushing to have these resolution, Sunday back 21:53 said no we, we cannot do that and in this case 21:57 we will oppose. Who will say we have a 21:59 good reason. Yes, because they have revealed 22:01 themselves and pushing for particular. 22:03 It will open to a discrimination and in this 22:06 case we will oppose, but we want to be sure that 22:09 if you know, if they maintain that they will 22:13 also add. You know they are other people, other 22:16 believer and that they all should be also respected. 22:20 Now my reading of the dynamic of what's going on 22:23 is that there is a certain sub-text where this is 22:26 trying to belatedly I think define these 22:30 European countries as Christian, because 22:33 culturally Christian. Yeah. Because the Islamic 22:36 migrations and so on. You know they're clearly 22:39 not gonna choose Friday. That would signal 22:41 toward another religion. Yeah exactly. 22:44 And Saturday would be Jewish, because 22:46 the mid days don't made anything, so I think it's 22:49 sort of natural and it suits the cultural unease, 22:53 that they feel under some. Tradition you know 22:55 Sunday has a strong tradition in Europe and 22:58 of course as you said and I believe, 23:01 I believe that it's a fabulous opportunity for 23:04 the Christian coalition. You know to say hey 23:08 you believe we disappear but we are still here, 23:10 we are still here and we want really to fight 23:13 for that. And I have often spoken about this 23:16 type of thing on this program, because 23:18 I remember when I was a kid in Australia and in 23:21 the U.S. we had number of blue type laws that 23:24 restricted as you mentioned in Switzerland. 23:27 Restricted activities on Sunday and some well 23:31 meaning Seventh Day Adventist challenged them. 23:32 Will do their gardening publicly flattered. 23:35 Yeah, yeah. I don't think that's profitable myself. 23:38 Oh! I think Ellen White is very clear about it. 23:40 Yes of course. You don't have to provoke. 23:42 Adventist pathfinder Ellen White advised 23:44 Adventists not to provoke. Yeah. Even though 23:47 we might see it as a dynamic that's tending 23:50 toward compelling a certain form of worship. 23:52 You know. On it's own merits it's not really 23:54 doing that at all because it doesn't require 23:56 you to worship on another day. I would understand 24:00 if you really, if you fight for 24:03 religious freedom. I would understand that 24:05 you provoke you know in working on the Sunday 24:07 just to provoke, but as a church I should say that 24:11 we have to be wiser than that. We don't want to be 24:15 burning any Qurans. Yeah, yeah exactly. 24:17 Is this a classics act of provocation. 24:19 Yeah because at the end you know the church 24:21 will be the target and you know when you don't 24:24 control the press or some of the people control, 24:27 you can be a really, you can have, 24:29 you can spend all your time defending yourself. 24:32 And this is something that we have to understand. 24:34 If you provoke people as a church. You will spend 24:38 all your time not to preach the gospel, 24:40 but to defend yourself. You will spend million 24:44 and million dollars just to defend yourself. 24:45 And religious liberty at least our advancing 24:48 it in defending some of religious liberty. 24:50 It's all to clear the way for them to practice 24:53 their faith and the whole point as a Christian 24:55 is to proclaim. Exactly. The point of it is not 24:58 to win a legal battle that you have protected in 25:01 the workplace however that might be necessary 25:04 given the, in this case the U.S. Constitution 25:07 say it makes the claim while you are coming 25:11 and saying you'd honor your claim for 25:13 religious freedom, but that's not what religious 25:15 liberty is about. Yeah. 25:17 That's to help facilitate it. But it is all about 25:19 proclaiming a great truth to a larger audience. 25:23 Which means that we have to be sure to 25:26 understand very well about this strategy. 25:28 You know if I defend religious freedom on 25:31 behalf of the International Religious 25:32 Liberty Association. I may really provoke 25:35 because thinking that's the best strategy. 25:38 But when I'm represent the church have to be 25:42 wise and not to spend time just to justify things 25:47 which are not really the mission of the church. 25:49 And maybe it's the time to interject again 25:51 a reminder of the department. You know it's 25:53 not just the Religious Liberty Department. 25:55 It's public affairs, yeah. Which is looking 25:57 after the interest of the Adventist church 25:59 not in a PR sense, but using mechanisms to 26:03 promote what the church stands for. 26:06 And sometimes public statements about 26:08 positions on doctrine or moral issues. 26:11 And you know. It's not Religious Liberty per say, 26:13 but it's public affairs. Yeah when we have 26:14 issued a public statement we are very balanced 26:17 and we try really to avoid provoking people. 26:21 But you know in spite of that to say what we want 26:24 to say. You know I think that there is no, 26:27 nothing wrong in meeting people, 26:29 in being part of not coalition. 26:33 Coalition you have to be very careful 26:34 about what does it mean, but meeting, 26:38 taking the opportunity of being part of their 26:40 meeting and representing what you believe 26:43 as long as you know what you believe and as 26:45 long as you are faithful about what you believe. 26:50 There is a classic scene that you can read in the 26:52 Book of Job where there is a council in heaven and 26:56 among the other representatives Satan 26:58 turns up and God asks him where have you 27:01 come from? And he says oh from wandering up 27:03 and down upon the earth and then gives a pretty 27:06 sad report of what he's found down here on this 27:10 sweet earth of us. You know sometimes you can 27:13 wonder whether the United Nations might not 27:15 be that same juxtaposition of high ideals and some 27:20 pretty devilish bit players who really 27:22 shouldn't be there. But just as in heaven where 27:25 God wants to hear from all the parties involved 27:29 in human endeavors. It's actually a positive 27:32 for the nations to come together and as you've 27:35 heard on this program it is definitely 27:37 an opportunity for us to talk to them about 27:39 religious freedom and it is an opportunity 27:42 to share with some very desperate, 27:44 political and religious constituencies. 27:47 Of religious viewpoint and perhaps even as the 27:51 occasion ones to express and to share faith in 27:54 Jesus Christ. Something a little higher than just 27:57 a council of the nations or a controlling 28:00 authority for political powers. 28:04 For Liberty Insider this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17