Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:00:21.95\00:00:23.46
This is the
program that brings you
00:00:23.74\00:00:24.92
up-to-date news,
views, and discussion about
00:00:25.02\00:00:27.80
religious liberty
issues. My name is Lincoln
00:00:28.00\00:00:31.20
Steed, Editor of
Liberty Magazine, and my
00:00:31.35\00:00:33.27
guest on the
program is Dr. John Graz,
00:00:33.30\00:00:35.43
Director of our Religious
Department at the World
00:00:35.90\00:00:38.35
Head Quarters of the
Seventh day Adventist Church.
00:00:38.38\00:00:40.80
I am glad to be
with you Lincoln.
00:00:41.12\00:00:42.65
It's always a
pleasure to have you as a
00:00:42.79\00:00:43.84
guest on this program.
This is not the first time
00:00:43.87\00:00:46.16
nor I hope the last.
You know revival is a very
00:00:46.24\00:00:50.39
key concept for
Christians and indeed people
00:00:50.57\00:00:53.41
of most dynamic
faiths around the world and
00:00:53.48\00:00:56.11
through the ages.
I've been impressed lately
00:00:56.19\00:00:58.99
as I've read in
the book of Ezra.
00:00:59.09\00:01:00.95
That's recorded in the
Old Testament of how Ezra,
00:01:01.95\00:01:04.90
a Jew that had been
part of the dispersion
00:01:06.94\00:01:09.38
after Nebuchadnezzar's
defeat of Israel.
00:01:09.58\00:01:11.61
Coming back to try to
rebuild the temple and
00:01:11.80\00:01:15.05
finding a people
nominally following God,
00:01:15.18\00:01:18.01
nominally going
through religious services
00:01:18.70\00:01:21.53
but really almost
dead, spiritually dead and to
00:01:22.11\00:01:25.22
read of Ezra, how he
first of all was personally
00:01:25.33\00:01:28.95
afflicted by
this and how he went
00:01:29.50\00:01:31.17
about generating
religious enthusiasm.
00:01:31.23\00:01:34.35
Yes, it's so
important you know in every
00:01:35.05\00:01:37.28
religion I should say,
even in a national feeling.
00:01:37.31\00:01:40.64
You know, you
need to have a revival,
00:01:40.68\00:01:42.72
because it's the
natural nature like that.
00:01:43.17\00:01:45.59
After a while, you
know people are just
00:01:45.96\00:01:47.75
becoming very
formal and they believe,
00:01:48.10\00:01:50.75
without believing
they are more attracted
00:01:50.79\00:01:53.18
by the things around
them and they lose the
00:01:53.22\00:01:55.58
vision, they lose
the direction. Yeah,
00:01:55.62\00:01:57.38
the energy of any
organization and particularly
00:01:57.52\00:02:00.00
a religious group
that just dissipates,
00:02:00.08\00:02:01.81
and they lose the
identity and then they're
00:02:01.85\00:02:03.97
gone. And then where you know,
00:02:04.21\00:02:05.18
it happened here
is to many, many,
00:02:05.38\00:02:06.52
in many fields you
know. Time to time you can
00:02:07.11\00:02:09.22
see an organization
saying that we have to go
00:02:09.27\00:02:11.50
back to the real
purpose, our real mission and
00:02:11.72\00:02:15.57
of course for a church
it's so vital to come back
00:02:15.60\00:02:18.77
to the purpose of the
church. Why are we here,
00:02:18.80\00:02:21.68
you know, why the
people of Israel that was
00:02:21.78\00:02:23.72
the case during the
time of Ezra. What are we
00:02:23.85\00:02:26.75
doing here, what is
the meaning of our life?
00:02:26.78\00:02:29.78
It starts there that
he found that they had
00:02:30.42\00:02:33.79
intermarried with
the not so much that they
00:02:34.40\00:02:37.64
were forbidden people,
but those peoples around
00:02:37.74\00:02:40.65
them were
worshiping other Gods. They
00:02:40.83\00:02:42.29
represented another
system and that mingled
00:02:42.40\00:02:44.65
themselves with
it, that they were not,
00:02:44.68\00:02:46.63
and he afflicted
himself and he says, you know,
00:02:46.90\00:02:48.76
how could this be
he says, we're remnant,
00:02:49.04\00:02:51.56
we're escaped and
you spared us and now if
00:02:51.75\00:02:54.39
we pull back into
this. He says, you know
00:02:54.46\00:02:56.32
wouldn't you almost
consume us entirely.
00:02:56.35\00:02:58.39
You know what's to
happen and you know you
00:02:58.49\00:03:01.25
loose the goal. You
lose the point you know,
00:03:01.28\00:03:04.01
imagine that you are
working because you are
00:03:04.58\00:03:07.24
working because you
want to reach one point
00:03:07.34\00:03:10.52
and so then leave or
still working and you stop
00:03:11.08\00:03:13.18
to work and you
look on the right and you
00:03:13.25\00:03:14.86
look on left and after
you say. There is no way
00:03:14.98\00:03:17.43
what are we doing
here. You know it remind
00:03:17.60\00:03:19.66
me when I was young
and I was running you
00:03:19.71\00:03:22.95
know when you run
for one or two miles
00:03:22.99\00:03:26.20
maybe more some
time. Some time you want
00:03:26.95\00:03:28.91
to stop or you can
also be distract and you'll
00:03:28.94\00:03:31.18
look at the right and
you'll look at the left and
00:03:31.21\00:03:33.43
you say oh maybe I
should stop. What is the
00:03:33.46\00:03:36.13
meaning of me? Why,
why, it's very hard,
00:03:36.17\00:03:38.81
why you have to do
that and you lose you know
00:03:38.90\00:03:41.27
the point of arrival,
you lose it. And at this
00:03:41.35\00:03:44.72
moment when you lose
it, you lose it everything
00:03:44.82\00:03:47.36
can happen and you
may lose the meaning
00:03:47.39\00:03:50.39
of your life. This is
what happen in church too.
00:03:50.45\00:03:53.49
Ezra doesn't prove that
absolutely, but I believe
00:03:56.26\00:03:58.44
that revival
personally and even corporately
00:03:59.57\00:04:02.23
tends to come at
moments of great stress.
00:04:03.20\00:04:05.14
Where there's a
conflict and every thing is
00:04:06.53\00:04:08.82
shaken and of course
with Ezra this is what
00:04:08.93\00:04:11.19
had happened, I
mean, he comes back to find
00:04:11.26\00:04:13.99
a ruined city, a ruined
temple. He was questioning,
00:04:14.07\00:04:18.48
not questioning but
looking again at you know,
00:04:18.68\00:04:20.98
what was God going to with them.
00:04:21.20\00:04:22.27
How could he deal with
this group and when your
00:04:22.35\00:04:24.97
world was turned
upside down, that's the moment
00:04:25.01\00:04:27.36
I believe the most
opportune moment for
00:04:27.57\00:04:29.36
revival, because you
can rediscover what this
00:04:29.44\00:04:33.25
faith means to you.
And it can happen also at
00:04:33.57\00:04:35.75
the moment where
you are thinking about
00:04:35.78\00:04:38.33
you know what I am
doing exactly, what is
00:04:38.41\00:04:41.55
really the purpose
of my life, and you feel
00:04:41.64\00:04:45.45
that you are on the
point of losing the purpose
00:04:45.54\00:04:48.97
of your life. And there
is kind of a vital reaction,
00:04:49.01\00:04:51.82
saying hey be careful
you are going to lose the
00:04:51.92\00:04:56.08
reason and the purpose
of your life. Yeah, now
00:04:56.12\00:05:00.25
I had mentioned on
this program with another
00:05:00.70\00:05:04.17
guest how impressed I
was earlier this year,
00:05:04.22\00:05:07.61
when we're filming
this in 2010. Earlier this
00:05:07.80\00:05:10.69
year our
Seventh-day Adventists World
00:05:10.72\00:05:13.24
convocation in
Atlanta, Georgia chose a new
00:05:13.31\00:05:15.88
President. Dr. Ted
Wilson and after he was
00:05:15.91\00:05:19.41
elected, he gave a very
inspiring Sabbath sermon.
00:05:19.83\00:05:23.85
And I don't know that
he's used the word arrival,
00:05:24.61\00:05:26.76
he may have, but
he was arguing for it
00:05:26.90\00:05:30.16
and throwing out the
distinctive Sabbath faith.
00:05:30.74\00:05:33.44
Yeah he preach about
you know going forward
00:05:33.73\00:05:36.38
not backward, right and
I found it very inspired
00:05:36.43\00:05:39.28
as did many others.
In fact, I told him later
00:05:39.75\00:05:42.45
I said it's almost
like Adventism has come out
00:05:42.50\00:05:45.35
of exile and you and
I have seen somethings
00:05:45.39\00:05:48.21
since his election
and it's always a little
00:05:48.41\00:05:50.50
dangerous to
personalize something but he's
00:05:50.53\00:05:52.56
certainly the
individual leading our Church,
00:05:53.57\00:05:55.53
that is, is acting as
a catalyst for a revival.
00:05:55.56\00:06:00.84
And it's interesting to
see this and I think we're
00:06:01.43\00:06:04.00
following a biblical
model and I have a great
00:06:04.03\00:06:06.14
expectation that we
may indeed see something
00:06:06.21\00:06:10.38
special in this
Seventh- Day Adventist Church
00:06:10.51\00:06:11.93
in the next weeks
and months. I think you
00:06:12.03\00:06:13.00
know it was confirmed
during the last annual
00:06:13.01\00:06:16.46
council where you
know all the delegates
00:06:16.65\00:06:19.02
from the world came,
every year to the world
00:06:19.13\00:06:21.94
headquarters and of
course at this time was
00:06:21.97\00:06:25.08
really something
exceptional. You know on
00:06:25.11\00:06:27.88
the theme of
revival and reformation,
00:06:27.91\00:06:30.65
that was really
people spend. We spend more
00:06:31.29\00:06:33.20
time in praying, more
time in reading the Bible,
00:06:33.24\00:06:37.49
more time in
talking about what God is
00:06:37.61\00:06:41.02
doing for us.
Instead just to work about
00:06:41.11\00:06:43.25
administrative
issues, you know the
00:06:43.36\00:06:45.20
administrative
portion was really limited,
00:06:45.29\00:06:48.38
but the spiritual
one was really a lot of
00:06:48.88\00:06:52.06
pressure. They
evaluated administrative issues.
00:06:52.19\00:06:53.96
Yes, but Jesus said
if you're concerned with
00:06:54.06\00:06:59.25
this lesser things
and not taken and paid
00:06:59.30\00:07:01.86
attention to the
major things you might as
00:07:01.89\00:07:03.63
well not bother.
And the result was you
00:07:03.75\00:07:05.49
know most of the
delegates were so pleased
00:07:05.58\00:07:09.12
about. They said
that it's refreshing;
00:07:09.16\00:07:12.67
it's encouraging,
now we really we come
00:07:13.19\00:07:16.17
back to these, the
great future. It doesn't
00:07:16.24\00:07:18.41
mean that before,
you know, we were far
00:07:18.48\00:07:20.40
away. I think it's
just something which
00:07:20.43\00:07:23.42
happened on time,
we need that and the
00:07:23.57\00:07:26.10
church need that
and revival also has to
00:07:26.13\00:07:30.11
be understand in a
right sense. You know,
00:07:30.14\00:07:32.28
they say that the
consequence, the fruits
00:07:32.36\00:07:34.89
of the revival is. You
read more of your Bible,
00:07:35.06\00:07:37.76
you pray more and
you also act you know
00:07:37.80\00:07:42.66
you act more to, to
change your behavior,
00:07:42.73\00:07:44.56
you change your
behavior and you really
00:07:44.61\00:07:46.80
in the center of the
revival is the love of God.
00:07:46.83\00:07:49.77
God loves us
and want to save us.
00:07:49.81\00:07:52.25
I believe we've been
coming to an inevitability
00:07:54.54\00:07:57.36
or an inevitable need
for a revival for long
00:07:57.39\00:08:00.18
time. In Liberty
magazine, I often in
00:08:00.22\00:08:02.03
editorials point out,
what I think is the obvious,
00:08:02.12\00:08:05.97
people sometimes
miss it. But there is way
00:08:06.19\00:08:08.07
too much religion in
the world, but not enough
00:08:08.12\00:08:10.08
spirituality,
yeah, yeah you're right,
00:08:10.19\00:08:11.66
religion without
spirituality as we've seen
00:08:11.72\00:08:14.30
would not live with
this, a great curse and
00:08:14.39\00:08:18.22
it leads to all
sorts of bad behavior.
00:08:18.26\00:08:20.53
But the stresses
that modern society,
00:08:21.90\00:08:23.83
modernization,
the move to the city,
00:08:23.97\00:08:26.12
the growing gulf
between the rich and poor,
00:08:26.19\00:08:29.68
the industrialization
with all of the pollution
00:08:29.79\00:08:32.93
and so, all of these
things are incredible social
00:08:32.98\00:08:35.71
stresses around the
world. And as always
00:08:35.75\00:08:38.53
religion is an
important focus for people to
00:08:38.59\00:08:42.36
raise their sights
higher and give them hope
00:08:42.39\00:08:44.14
for another world, you
can even put it that way.
00:08:44.65\00:08:47.11
So they need the
spiritual regeneration.
00:08:47.52\00:08:49.40
And I think it's
growing, it's need is universal,
00:08:50.06\00:08:53.48
it's not just within
the Seventh-Day Adventist
00:08:53.51\00:08:55.01
Church, but since
you and I are in that
00:08:55.12\00:08:57.78
church, since we
have reason to believe
00:08:57.94\00:09:00.14
that this is like
Ezra, a remnant group called
00:09:00.18\00:09:02.81
to proclaim God's
mercy to an end time world.
00:09:02.89\00:09:06.21
Surely we need to
be revived. We need
00:09:06.95\00:09:09.00
reexamine what we
are and why we are,
00:09:09.58\00:09:11.96
and what we do day
- to-day and it's not
00:09:12.00\00:09:14.35
just revival. It's
reformation, in other
00:09:14.43\00:09:16.45
words reform. Look
at ourselves, recoup,
00:09:16.55\00:09:19.80
re-gather,
re-discover and then move on
00:09:22.40\00:09:23.93
more strongly
into this new reality.
00:09:24.04\00:09:25.88
And also
something that President Ted
00:09:25.95\00:09:28.94
Wilson on the line.
He say that revival means
00:09:29.10\00:09:32.59
more simplicity and I
agree totally with that.
00:09:32.64\00:09:35.69
You know when we
are religious leader.
00:09:36.23\00:09:37.85
We are not CEO, we
are not really the boss,
00:09:37.94\00:09:41.32
what we are, we are
first disciple of Jesus,
00:09:41.76\00:09:45.77
we are first
spiritual leader then after we
00:09:46.05\00:09:49.00
become expert or
administrator and so on,
00:09:49.05\00:09:51.78
but first and some
time we tend to forget
00:09:51.95\00:09:54.46
that. We are first
disciple of Jesus and
00:09:54.53\00:09:58.17
that's an
important point too. And also
00:09:58.25\00:10:01.07
you mentioned also
the fact that we have
00:10:01.10\00:10:02.92
to be careful when
we talk and we come
00:10:02.95\00:10:06.10
back in a
revival about pantheism,
00:10:06.15\00:10:09.69
because the best
way to kill revival is
00:10:09.91\00:10:12.60
pantheism. Well
pantheism, whether it's in
00:10:12.90\00:10:16.15
the church or
even in the society,
00:10:16.18\00:10:19.06
every, every, civil
sphere leads to lawlessness
00:10:19.78\00:10:23.75
and revolution
and mayhem obviously
00:10:23.90\00:10:27.65
and religion is
the same. That's why I
00:10:27.71\00:10:29.89
think it's important
to point out revival and
00:10:29.97\00:10:31.65
reformation. A
reexamination and a
00:10:31.87\00:10:35.28
reordering of our
priorities, that's a mental
00:10:35.33\00:10:38.90
process, it isn't
just an emotional letting
00:10:39.01\00:10:41.17
loose of a frenzy
and as you know there's
00:10:41.26\00:10:44.72
been times in
recent recorded history
00:10:44.75\00:10:49.24
where religious
hysteria has come upon
00:10:49.84\00:10:53.00
people and often
that is precipitated by
00:10:53.14\00:10:55.80
the stresses that
are referred to earlier.
00:10:55.89\00:10:57.79
So it's nothing
today, but in response to
00:10:58.27\00:11:01.97
the stress or and
to deal with stress we
00:11:02.09\00:11:04.39
need a revival, but
if you let the stress
00:11:04.44\00:11:06.65
create the
emotional chaos. Yes, a false
00:11:07.19\00:11:13.62
religion can
move in and the people
00:11:13.66\00:11:15.11
you know because
still you know we deal
00:11:15.15\00:11:16.78
with something
wonderful is happening,
00:11:16.87\00:11:18.05
but that's not
religion. No we deal with
00:11:18.14\00:11:19.79
human hysteria,
you know we deal with
00:11:19.92\00:11:22.24
human nature,
people are superstitious.
00:11:22.27\00:11:24.56
It means revival can
become also something
00:11:24.68\00:11:27.20
superstitious, yeah,
something just emotional,
00:11:27.28\00:11:29.90
but the real revival
will lead people to the
00:11:30.13\00:11:33.47
study of the word
of God. To do something
00:11:33.50\00:11:36.06
in a society, to
help people and not just
00:11:36.09\00:11:38.64
emotion, because it
could be very dangerous
00:11:38.68\00:11:40.82
also to, to let your
emotion dominate you.
00:11:40.85\00:11:43.59
But, let me play,
I'm always the quiet,
00:11:44.04\00:11:46.54
I hope not that the
devil's that wicked,
00:11:46.64\00:11:47.85
but the other side.
It seems to me religion
00:11:48.91\00:11:51.29
devoid of emotion is
a sad thing. If we're
00:11:51.38\00:11:56.51
dealing with higher
values and grand and
00:11:56.56\00:11:59.65
all inspiring
themes of creator and even
00:11:59.71\00:12:03.53
as the Bible says a
war in heaven for our
00:12:03.56\00:12:06.56
very destiny. I mean
this is exciting stuff.
00:12:06.68\00:12:09.14
I have children that
will we don't, we don't
00:12:09.54\00:12:12.56
show them the stuff
and if they go into a
00:12:12.59\00:12:14.20
shop and they see
Star Wars or something
00:12:14.39\00:12:16.79
play, they get all
excited. But you know
00:12:16.99\00:12:18.91
we're actually
involved in something far
00:12:18.96\00:12:21.69
more important than
that, far more cosmic
00:12:21.75\00:12:26.35
conflict.
Exactly, but you know also,
00:12:26.79\00:12:28.26
emotion is called
for, but not emotionalism,
00:12:28.41\00:12:30.61
exactly, we
should be enthused about
00:12:30.64\00:12:32.91
this type of topic.
You know why because
00:12:33.02\00:12:35.03
emotion is a very
strong feeling and you
00:12:35.17\00:12:37.75
can manipulate
people with emotion.
00:12:37.80\00:12:40.18
You know we see
that all the time,
00:12:40.55\00:12:41.88
publicity you know
use emotion to strong,
00:12:41.92\00:12:45.54
you know to help us to
buy the things and many,
00:12:45.77\00:12:48.56
many, many leaders
in the world we have
00:12:48.59\00:12:51.79
seen during they
use emotion. When they
00:12:51.92\00:12:53.72
want people give
their life for their
00:12:53.79\00:12:55.38
country very
often they use emotion.
00:12:55.43\00:12:57.31
Yes, and we don't
want to be manipulated,
00:12:57.38\00:13:00.00
but we do want to
have emotion about
00:13:00.56\00:13:03.40
something so
important as religion.
00:13:03.56\00:13:04.87
We'll be back after
the break to further
00:13:05.01\00:13:06.88
discussion
religious liberty and revival.
00:13:07.00\00:13:09.67
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:13:19.34\00:13:22.51
much less publish a magazine,
00:13:22.95\00:13:24.54
but this year Liberty,
the Seventh-Day Adventist
00:13:25.00\00:13:27.99
voice of religious
freedom, celebrates
00:13:28.11\00:13:30.15
one hundred years of
doing what it does best,
00:13:30.24\00:13:32.87
collecting,
analyzing, and reporting the ebb
00:13:33.26\00:13:36.20
and flow of religious expression
00:13:36.23\00:13:37.82
around the world.
Issue after issues,
00:13:37.87\00:13:40.71
Liberty has taken on
the tough assignments,
00:13:41.24\00:13:43.23
tracking down
threats to religious freedom
00:13:43.63\00:13:45.43
and exposing the work of
the devil in every corner
00:13:45.48\00:13:48.25
of the globe.
Governmental interference,
00:13:48.29\00:13:50.41
personal attacks,
corporate assaults,
00:13:50.80\00:13:52.95
even religious freedom
issues sequestered within
00:13:53.39\00:13:55.50
the church community
itself have been clearly
00:13:55.54\00:13:57.95
and honestly
exposed. Liberty exists for
00:13:58.11\00:14:01.20
one purpose to help
God's people maintain
00:14:01.27\00:14:04.31
that all the
important separation of Church
00:14:04.34\00:14:06.64
and State, while
recognizing the dangers
00:14:06.70\00:14:09.26
inherent in such a struggle.
00:14:09.29\00:14:10.83
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:14:11.53\00:14:13.92
challenges of its
own, but it remains
00:14:14.08\00:14:16.26
on the job. Thanks to
the inspired leadership
00:14:16.42\00:14:19.22
of a long line of dedicated
00:14:19.36\00:14:20.70
Adventist Editors,
three of whom represent
00:14:20.79\00:14:22.79
almost half of the
publications existence
00:14:22.86\00:14:24.95
and the
foresight of a little woman
00:14:25.49\00:14:27.11
from New England. One
hundred years of struggle,
00:14:27.51\00:14:30.37
one hundred years of victories,
00:14:30.82\00:14:32.74
religious
freedom isn't just about
00:14:33.21\00:14:34.80
political machines
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:34.93\00:14:37.53
It's about people
fighting for the right
00:14:37.94\00:14:40.62
to serve the God
they love as their hearts
00:14:40.74\00:14:43.48
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:43.66\00:14:45.60
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:14:46.19\00:14:48.04
of Seventh-Day
Adventists everywhere.
00:14:48.07\00:14:50.13
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work of
00:14:50.56\00:14:52.85
providing timely information,
00:14:52.93\00:14:54.48
spirit filled inspiration,
00:14:54.81\00:14:56.03
and heaven sentencouragement
00:14:56.18\00:14:57.70
to all who long to
live and work in a world
00:14:57.98\00:15:01.69
bound together
by the God ordained
00:15:01.77\00:15:03.97
bonds of religious freedom.
00:15:04.13\00:15:06.45
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider,
00:15:15.72\00:15:17.11
before the break
I was talking with
00:15:17.33\00:15:18.91
Dr. John Graz
about revival, this is a
00:15:19.01\00:15:23.64
certainly familiar
term to Christians and I
00:15:23.95\00:15:26.41
think most other
dynamic religions recognize
00:15:26.53\00:15:29.21
the dynamic of
reviving the commitment to
00:15:29.66\00:15:32.71
their faith, but for
Seventh-Day Adventist,
00:15:32.76\00:15:34.86
it's a loaded term
the last really big
00:15:35.40\00:15:39.46
organization of
revival phenomenon
00:15:40.23\00:15:42.57
was over a century ago in 1888,
00:15:42.97\00:15:45.92
the then editor of
the Religious Liberty
00:15:46.79\00:15:48.81
journal for our
relatively small church there,
00:15:48.92\00:15:51.78
E.T. Jones,
seeing what he felt was
00:15:52.20\00:15:55.92
prophetic
fulfillments coming very close
00:15:56.03\00:15:58.08
to the final
conflict between those that
00:15:58.37\00:16:02.24
would force
complies to religious edict
00:16:02.27\00:16:04.59
and those that would
follow their conscience
00:16:04.65\00:16:07.14
in worship and
freedom. He saw that
00:16:07.17\00:16:09.01
coming to ahead
and he believed we
00:16:09.10\00:16:10.25
need revival and he
spoke at our general
00:16:10.44\00:16:13.57
conference
meetings in 1888 and he
00:16:13.76\00:16:16.99
argued very forcibly,
Biblically for revival
00:16:17.12\00:16:19.86
and some of our
fellows Adventists tried
00:16:20.29\00:16:22.03
to deconstruct his
message. You know I
00:16:22.08\00:16:23.92
don't want to get
into that, but it is
00:16:23.99\00:16:25.44
undeniable that
he was arguing for
00:16:25.47\00:16:27.64
revival as a
consequence of the situation
00:16:27.69\00:16:30.57
in the world, in
our world, I think today
00:16:31.11\00:16:33.24
we're at a similar
point. You can easily look
00:16:33.27\00:16:35.82
around the world
and disarray and on the
00:16:36.12\00:16:38.45
religious liberty
front a very mixed bag and
00:16:38.48\00:16:40.78
argue that it's
going to get worse, and say
00:16:41.51\00:16:44.12
that we need
revival. And also you know
00:16:44.21\00:16:46.87
seeing that we need
revival means that we
00:16:47.25\00:16:49.75
are aware of that
everything is not doing
00:16:49.89\00:16:52.62
well. You know
that you need to have
00:16:52.72\00:16:55.51
some humility to
recognize and no body;
00:16:55.69\00:16:58.34
no organization
wants to recognize that
00:16:58.41\00:17:01.14
you know we are not at the best.
00:17:01.18\00:17:03.04
We are not at the
best, we need revival,
00:17:03.12\00:17:05.48
we need
reformation, it means there is
00:17:05.58\00:17:07.34
something that we
need to correct and
00:17:07.61\00:17:10.06
maybe for some
people we don't need.
00:17:10.47\00:17:13.07
You know we are
always have done our
00:17:13.15\00:17:15.47
best, why we
should need revival,
00:17:15.50\00:17:17.21
especially revival.
It's an interesting point,
00:17:17.27\00:17:19.05
you reminding me
something and this is
00:17:19.93\00:17:21.53
not even a
slightly critical statement,
00:17:21.60\00:17:23.53
it's just
explanatory to what's happening
00:17:23.68\00:17:26.02
now. In North
America, the division or doing
00:17:26.05\00:17:30.11
some necessary
house cleaning to again
00:17:30.23\00:17:32.71
reorganize and move
forward strongly and
00:17:32.75\00:17:35.20
there's been a
number of days spent in
00:17:35.28\00:17:36.73
looking at the
organizational structure.
00:17:36.79\00:17:38.85
And I made a
comment to someone and
00:17:40.06\00:17:41.43
I think I'll just
say it very clearly.
00:17:41.51\00:17:43.23
Though North
America is not failing
00:17:43.73\00:17:46.75
in a structural
organizational, since
00:17:47.04\00:17:48.74
they're compared
to the rapid growth
00:17:48.78\00:17:50.45
in another
division because it's fully
00:17:50.60\00:17:52.35
organized.
Organization is not in itself
00:17:52.47\00:17:56.73
the key to
spiritual advancement or the
00:17:56.84\00:17:58.56
advancement of
our belief system.
00:17:58.60\00:18:01.01
No, it's true
because and ultimately it
00:18:01.76\00:18:03.51
depends on the
God's power. But how
00:18:03.58\00:18:06.42
it's utilized in the
being, how we express
00:18:06.47\00:18:09.58
that, how motivated
we are. And Christianity
00:18:09.61\00:18:12.30
is increasing
around the world not by
00:18:12.45\00:18:14.82
the organized, the
best organized bodies,
00:18:14.85\00:18:17.37
by independent. A
lot of independent
00:18:17.87\00:18:20.34
churches are growing everywhere.
00:18:20.57\00:18:22.23
It means
organization is probably a
00:18:23.01\00:18:25.30
blessing but it
could become also another
00:18:25.33\00:18:27.79
blessing if it
control everything and you
00:18:27.82\00:18:30.43
know if you have no
right to do anything
00:18:30.51\00:18:33.33
and if the goal of
the organization is not
00:18:33.36\00:18:36.15
really to do the
best for developing the
00:18:36.27\00:18:40.29
church but just to
control, to be sure
00:18:40.92\00:18:43.17
that they
master everything, that
00:18:43.26\00:18:45.16
would be not a
blessing in this case.
00:18:45.35\00:18:47.60
You know where
when I think about the
00:18:47.92\00:18:49.32
revival as a
Seventh - day Adventist I
00:18:49.45\00:18:51.72
automatically
think about Elijah.
00:18:51.83\00:18:53.67
Once upon a time
our church in it's early
00:18:55.00\00:18:56.88
days spoke of
the Elijah message,
00:18:57.00\00:18:59.09
a revival emphasis
toward the end of all
00:18:59.55\00:19:02.58
things, but you go
back to the Old Testament
00:19:02.62\00:19:05.62
and man, when
Elijah came, God's people,
00:19:05.86\00:19:09.89
the children of
Israel as they were,
00:19:10.00\00:19:11.78
then were basically
worshiping every thing
00:19:11.95\00:19:14.62
but God wasn't just
bad or, a terrible time,
00:19:14.65\00:19:18.77
and it was a time of
great lapsing and we're
00:19:18.80\00:19:22.89
told in the New
Testament speaking of
00:19:23.04\00:19:24.72
Elijah, it says, he
was a man like us but he
00:19:24.75\00:19:28.19
was so disturbed
by what he saw that
00:19:28.32\00:19:31.62
he was convinced
that God must act.
00:19:31.80\00:19:33.46
And I think today
is an analog to that,
00:19:34.30\00:19:37.27
you know it's fine
to say yes there must
00:19:37.92\00:19:39.40
be revival. If
that's done wrongly that's
00:19:39.43\00:19:41.66
just someone stubbornness or you
00:19:41.82\00:19:43.34
know revive, we
can't do that, but I
00:19:43.40\00:19:46.76
think anyone with
a little spiritual
00:19:46.81\00:19:48.74
sensitivity should
be able to look at the
00:19:48.78\00:19:51.17
situation in the
world in general and the
00:19:51.20\00:19:53.56
Christian world
more particularly and
00:19:53.59\00:19:55.69
perhaps even in
our own church and say
00:19:55.72\00:19:57.58
these conditions
are such that God must
00:19:58.07\00:20:01.54
act. Should not
forget Lincoln that these
00:20:01.58\00:20:04.38
revival is really
linked to the mission,
00:20:04.43\00:20:07.91
the mission of the
church, it means it's
00:20:08.33\00:20:10.06
not the state of
church which is you know
00:20:10.18\00:20:12.32
like the church in the
middle age or the people
00:20:12.35\00:20:14.62
of Israel during
the judges, but it's,
00:20:14.66\00:20:16.94
if we want really
to fulfill the mission,
00:20:17.43\00:20:20.31
we cannot do it,
with what we have,
00:20:20.42\00:20:22.56
we are too small,
we don't have enough
00:20:22.59\00:20:24.35
power and so on. We
need the Holy Spirit,
00:20:25.37\00:20:27.99
how can we get the
Holy Spirit, just in
00:20:28.27\00:20:30.69
praying. We need
revival to accomplish
00:20:30.89\00:20:33.86
our mission.
Absolutely, now I agree with
00:20:33.98\00:20:36.06
you and you're
singing the song that I've
00:20:36.09\00:20:38.35
sometimes saw in
our religious liberty
00:20:38.43\00:20:39.87
circles. Your office
and your associates do
00:20:39.90\00:20:43.65
a wonderful work,
but you know three
00:20:43.68\00:20:45.33
people what can
you do. Yeah, exactly,
00:20:45.37\00:20:46.99
what can we do in
the world? It's God
00:20:47.16\00:20:48.77
mercy and
miracle we have a such an
00:20:48.80\00:20:50.63
impact and it's
really, only because of his
00:20:50.66\00:20:53.34
enabling that we
can reach out in such
00:20:53.46\00:20:55.92
a powerful way,
but we don't have the
00:20:56.53\00:20:57.76
man power. But
we need to remember,
00:20:57.80\00:20:59.74
was it Gideon, a
few thousands answered
00:20:59.89\00:21:03.01
to the call, but
that was too many God
00:21:03.17\00:21:05.58
said and so stopped
at the river and they
00:21:05.65\00:21:07.71
were filtered out
those that wouldn't even
00:21:07.74\00:21:10.48
get down to lap
the water and what was
00:21:10.95\00:21:13.06
it 300, 300 at the
end. So it's not numbers,
00:21:13.14\00:21:16.51
not numbers. We need
to keep that in mind.
00:21:16.84\00:21:18.35
Not numbers, but
the power of God,
00:21:18.39\00:21:20.36
not human
planning, but human need
00:21:20.40\00:21:22.34
to plan to seek God
and that will lead to
00:21:22.37\00:21:25.43
revival. You know
Lincoln, when we start
00:21:25.62\00:21:27.37
the festival of
religious freedom. You know
00:21:27.51\00:21:29.52
I read the text in
the Bible, you know where
00:21:29.78\00:21:32.00
God said 'I will
make you, the Lord will
00:21:32.04\00:21:34.23
make you the head
and not the tail. '
00:21:34.36\00:21:36.28
And I thought
that, you know, if God,
00:21:36.37\00:21:38.43
it's a promise
from God. We should
00:21:38.52\00:21:40.58
really try and at
this time I had no
00:21:40.62\00:21:43.45
idea that we
could fill the stadium,
00:21:43.52\00:21:46.33
many tens of
thousands coming to these,
00:21:46.46\00:21:48.10
no idea, but we
start you know and my
00:21:48.13\00:21:49.74
goal was ten
thousand, a stadium with 10000
00:21:49.77\00:21:52.46
people in 2009. But
I said you know I pray
00:21:52.57\00:21:55.85
the Lord and I say
I want to take your
00:21:55.88\00:21:57.67
promise
seriously and you know what
00:21:57.71\00:21:59.48
happened. Instead
to have ten thousand
00:21:59.58\00:22:02.53
in 2009 we had
forty five thousand in
00:22:02.80\00:22:07.49
2009. It means you
know God can do the
00:22:07.78\00:22:11.56
work but we have
to be a useful tool.
00:22:11.60\00:22:15.35
We are really to
surrender to him.
00:22:15.89\00:22:17.96
Exactly and I
think this is what's
00:22:17.99\00:22:20.03
happening in the
Seventh-Day Adventist
00:22:20.12\00:22:21.34
church now on and
I do what our viewers
00:22:21.47\00:22:23.01
and our fellow
Adventists to recognize
00:22:23.52\00:22:25.08
that something is
happening. I've been
00:22:25.23\00:22:28.30
around awhile, and
you have too and we
00:22:28.33\00:22:30.69
don't know exactly
how we'll develop and
00:22:30.84\00:22:33.17
where it will end
up. I'm hundred percent
00:22:33.41\00:22:35.98
sure we are in
process now and there will
00:22:36.15\00:22:38.89
be a revival.
You know I was very,
00:22:38.97\00:22:40.79
and I think it's a
wonderful offering to
00:22:40.89\00:22:43.82
give to God, it's
not demand for revival.
00:22:43.92\00:22:47.05
It's the conditions
have been created for
00:22:47.09\00:22:49.13
revival. And at
these meetings that you
00:22:49.16\00:22:51.19
referred to
earlier, the annual council.
00:22:51.23\00:22:53.52
I saw people
repenting of a certain
00:22:54.16\00:22:57.46
cherished
attitudes. I saw others with
00:22:58.43\00:23:01.22
tears in their
eyes, others were just so
00:23:01.33\00:23:03.91
excited to see
God's Spirit moving and
00:23:04.02\00:23:06.63
I know in this sort
of context something
00:23:06.85\00:23:09.51
very good will
happen. Also you know
00:23:09.59\00:23:11.80
when you hear
someone like Mark Finley.
00:23:11.85\00:23:14.52
Mark Finley saying
that, you know the most
00:23:14.89\00:23:17.41
important is not
what you're doing but what
00:23:17.51\00:23:19.92
you are. That's
really a sign for someone
00:23:19.95\00:23:23.30
who is speaking all
the time with thousand
00:23:23.33\00:23:26.00
and thousand
people around the world.
00:23:26.03\00:23:28.02
You're not saying,
it's not what you are
00:23:28.55\00:23:30.12
doing which is
important it is who you are,
00:23:30.18\00:23:33.15
of course. And, in
fact, if you're not right
00:23:33.51\00:23:35.97
with God, lots of
activity is counter protective.
00:23:36.20\00:23:39.76
God will somehow
work through that even
00:23:41.31\00:23:43.31
with an imperfect
instrument, but the
00:23:43.34\00:23:44.80
more that we are in
harmony with the God,
00:23:44.83\00:23:46.96
the more effective
that talking and acting
00:23:47.00\00:23:49.75
him will be. We are
doing a lot of things.
00:23:49.78\00:23:52.48
You know as a
church it's fabulous.
00:23:52.51\00:23:53.99
We're building
churches, building a hospital,
00:23:54.03\00:23:57.01
we have a lot of
evangelistic campaign,
00:23:57.67\00:24:00.03
we're fighting, you
know for a better life
00:24:00.49\00:24:03.56
and so on, so on. And
some time we believe that,
00:24:03.61\00:24:05.87
that's okay we're
doing what we have to
00:24:06.09\00:24:07.74
do and we forget
the essential is our
00:24:07.81\00:24:11.36
relations with
God. You know and also
00:24:11.47\00:24:13.98
now we have a
mission to fulfill.
00:24:14.12\00:24:15.99
How can we fulfill
the mission without God
00:24:16.49\00:24:18.83
helping us, that's
just impossible. These are
00:24:18.89\00:24:22.51
good things, but
they are incomplete
00:24:22.67\00:24:24.48
without complete,
the appropriate spiritual
00:24:24.51\00:24:27.63
fervor and I can't
say too often to our
00:24:27.70\00:24:31.09
viewers too much in
this context to pass
00:24:31.27\00:24:34.60
on what I believe
fervently in my heart
00:24:34.69\00:24:37.00
something is
about to happen. Yeah.
00:24:37.41\00:24:39.89
I believe that for
a number of years now,
00:24:40.28\00:24:41.87
but I see the
signs and in front of me
00:24:41.90\00:24:44.38
church has released
at the annual council,
00:24:48.13\00:24:50.46
God's promised
gift, an urgent appeal for
00:24:50.57\00:24:53.60
revival,
reformation, discipleship and
00:24:53.71\00:24:55.92
evangelism. I'm
sure similar things have
00:24:55.98\00:24:58.34
come up before, but
this document in the
00:24:58.38\00:25:01.09
context of what I
see, of people really
00:25:01.12\00:25:03.28
being broken, and
revitalized and reexamining
00:25:03.33\00:25:07.14
their lives.
There's a stirring isn't it?
00:25:07.18\00:25:09.81
Yeah. And there
was a biblical term,
00:25:10.22\00:25:12.65
stirring in the myrtle leaves.
00:25:12.81\00:25:14.29
Something is about to
happen, it's very good,
00:25:14.32\00:25:16.18
yeah it's very
good, something really
00:25:16.46\00:25:17.87
wonderful. Very
good and very balanced
00:25:17.90\00:25:19.28
document, you
know encouraging us
00:25:19.36\00:25:21.20
to go back to the
Bible reading, to pray
00:25:21.29\00:25:24.68
more and also to
take the decision.
00:25:24.71\00:25:26.94
You know to
everyday at 7 O'clock in the
00:25:27.02\00:25:29.92
morning you know
we should pray and all
00:25:29.95\00:25:32.01
the Adventists
around the world we
00:25:32.14\00:25:33.94
should pray. And
this is what I said,
00:25:34.00\00:25:35.36
when we talk
about this document.
00:25:35.65\00:25:36.85
I say it's not
just for Adventist,
00:25:37.00\00:25:38.65
should be for all
Christians around the world,
00:25:38.68\00:25:40.73
across the world,
because revival is for
00:25:40.76\00:25:41.99
all, not just for
us. And when Adventist
00:25:42.10\00:25:44.29
revive they will
have more energy and
00:25:44.32\00:25:46.33
impetus to go out
and tell, yeah, this is
00:25:46.76\00:25:49.25
the proclamation of
Nazareth, where Jesus
00:25:49.33\00:25:51.82
said that the
Spirit of the Lord is upon
00:25:51.92\00:25:54.13
me because He has
anointed me to proclaim.
00:25:54.16\00:25:56.34
Yeah, you know
we need the power of
00:25:56.81\00:25:58.55
the God to fulfill
our mission. We need the
00:25:58.59\00:26:01.30
power of God to become humble.
00:26:01.46\00:26:03.69
You need to be
servant and to avoid to
00:26:04.11\00:26:07.07
follow just the
world trends. You know,
00:26:07.14\00:26:08.97
to become really
very egocentric and
00:26:09.04\00:26:11.76
so on. In my
ministry, you know I feel
00:26:11.79\00:26:14.85
really I need
revival. I need to read the
00:26:14.88\00:26:17.70
Bible more. I need to
really to be a servant
00:26:17.74\00:26:20.62
and an ambassador of God,
00:26:20.81\00:26:22.07
everywhere God
decide I have to act.
00:26:22.10\00:26:25.22
A few years ago,
while visiting Jamaica,
00:26:27.53\00:26:30.16
I went to the
out country with an
00:26:30.20\00:26:32.49
Adventist Pastor,
who was filling in for
00:26:32.55\00:26:34.56
a local
independent church and heard
00:26:34.59\00:26:36.81
him preach
arousing revival sermon.
00:26:36.84\00:26:39.03
During the
sermon there were women
00:26:39.88\00:26:41.84
bouncing up and
down the aisle on their
00:26:41.97\00:26:43.71
knees, on a sort
of a Cossack dance,
00:26:43.77\00:26:45.78
a frenzy.
Eventually, one of them run up
00:26:46.20\00:26:48.89
and down the
street yelling out 'come
00:26:48.96\00:26:50.62
home Moses. ' It
seemed like an incredibly
00:26:50.74\00:26:53.99
emotional "revival. "
However, it did bother
00:26:54.14\00:26:58.82
me a little later
to notice some of those
00:26:58.88\00:27:00.50
same women
gyrating to the Reggae music
00:27:00.54\00:27:03.46
on a improvised
battery record player.
00:27:03.51\00:27:06.51
Revival is a
loaded term, how do we get
00:27:07.25\00:27:10.98
to that point. An
analogy to the disciples
00:27:11.19\00:27:14.09
that are
gathered in the upper room
00:27:14.15\00:27:15.48
when literal
flames of Holy Spirit fire
00:27:15.51\00:27:18.79
descended on them.
And they were energized
00:27:18.85\00:27:21.21
to change the
world. The world in their
00:27:21.24\00:27:23.66
day was changed.
The world in our day
00:27:23.74\00:27:26.23
is changing
without us. Somehow we need
00:27:26.31\00:27:29.89
to get a hold of the
Spirit and take control
00:27:29.92\00:27:32.84
of the agenda for
Christ. I do believe
00:27:32.87\00:27:35.97
that the
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:27:36.01\00:27:38.01
has revival in
it's future. And, as we
00:27:38.05\00:27:40.02
follow the biblical
model of not just revival,
00:27:40.09\00:27:43.46
but a reformation of Bible based
00:27:43.50\00:27:46.91
introspection of
preparing ourselves in
00:27:47.08\00:27:49.88
our lives and in
our behavior for God's
00:27:49.92\00:27:52.69
working, great
things will happen.
00:27:52.72\00:27:54.62
Young men will see
visions and old men will
00:27:55.73\00:27:59.54
have dreams. It's prophesied,
00:27:59.66\00:28:01.56
it will happen.
We must pray for it.
00:28:01.79\00:28:03.84
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:05.77\00:28:08.39