Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), John Graz
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000113
|
00:21 Welcome to the Liberty Insider,
00:23 this is the program that brings you up to 00:25 date news, views and discussion on 00:27 religious liberty issues. My name is Lincoln Steed, 00:30 editor of Liberty Magazine, and my 00:33 guest on the program is Dr. John Graz, 00:36 welcome John. Thank you very much 00:38 Lincoln. You're not new to this program 00:40 but some of our viewers might not 00:41 have seen you before or for a while, yes. 00:44 And I'll remind them, that tell me your 00:47 position you and I worked closely 00:48 together but, you have several hats. 00:50 Yeah, I have several hats, the first one is 00:53 I'm Director of the Department of Public 00:56 Affairs and Religious Liberty of the General 00:59 Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist, 01:01 sitting at the world headquarters, 01:03 at the world headquarters, yeah, 01:05 the second hat is I am Secretary-General 01:08 of the International Religious Liberty 01:10 Association, and I have also several hats 01:14 I don't if we can talk about but at least you 01:16 know I'm involved in several things yeah. 01:19 And involve maybe is the keyword that we 01:21 can pursue a little bit. I know you've been 01:23 traveling a lot lately, yes, not just in the 01:26 United States but all over the world, 01:28 and there are many activities for 01:30 Religious Liberty particularly. 01:33 Yeah you know in my ministry I meet 01:36 officials, government or sometime head of 01:38 state ministers but always we give the 01:41 idea to promote and defend religious freedom. 01:44 We visit countries or I visit countries, 01:46 my team visit countries where you 01:48 know religious freedom is threatened or where 01:51 we have a problem, where people are 01:53 prosecuted for their faiths, for their beliefs. 01:57 And also we organize and I organize 01:59 meeting events like congresses, 02:02 symposium, forums, international 02:06 congresses and every five years we 02:09 organize a world congresses on 02:11 religious freedom, which is becoming 02:13 one of the major event about religious freedom. 02:16 And we organize also every year festival of 02:20 religious freedom, which are a big, big 02:24 gathering you know promoting and 02:25 defending religious freedom. 02:26 We have sometimes 40,000, 45,000 02:30 people, yeah. And we discussed on this 02:32 program before one that I attended with 02:33 you in Dominican Republic. Not too long ago you 02:38 were in Jordan. Yeah, I was in Jordan 02:40 with a team of experts. Tell us about that. 02:42 You know every year we have a meeting of 02:44 experts. It means we try to select the best 02:48 experts in the world in the field of religious 02:52 freedom and we brought about 20 02:54 experts to Jordan. And for the first time 02:56 we work with, or as a partner you know 03:01 with an association for Jordan, it is the 03:04 Arab Bridge Center and we had for the 03:08 first time you know the possibility to do 03:10 something about religious freedom in 03:12 Middle East, and where we talk about 03:14 respect of religion. You know teaching, 03:17 respect of religion and we had Imam, 03:19 Muslim Imam of course we first, 03:22 we have orthodox archbishop and so on. 03:26 It means we had not just a few group of 03:29 believers, but we have people believing in 03:31 different faiths, and we wanted really 03:34 to promote religious freedom. 03:36 You cannot promote religious freedom just 03:38 with people who believe already in 03:40 religious freedom, you are really to try to expand. 03:44 Yeah, religion by definition needs to 03:45 reach out, to reach out, yeah. 03:47 But there are some critics and you all 03:49 know your predecessor over the years was 03:51 criticized sometimes for even talking to 03:54 other groups that had quite different 03:57 theological view points, but you know 03:59 how would explain our need to dialogue 04:02 and perhaps even to share our religious 04:06 view point with another group, is it 04:07 profitable, what comes of it? 04:08 But I think first you know, religious 04:11 freedom is like health, it's like 04:13 doing something against poverty, 04:15 andd so it means it's not something which has 04:17 to be closely restricted to one 04:21 religion or one face, or one church. 04:24 We have to try to build a coalition, 04:28 to defend the values we believe in. 04:30 It means that there is no restriction and it 04:33 has been always the case in the history of 04:35 the Adventist Church. You know at the 04:37 beginning of our history someone like 04:40 Ellen White was invited to speak about 04:42 temperance by other churches, and she 04:44 give meetings sometimes Saturday 04:46 afternoon talking about health, it means 04:49 it's for all people. And I think that it makes 04:52 us very strong in our position. 04:54 It means we have a history behind. 04:57 We have always been open, and we 04:58 understand that you cannot promote and 05:01 defend religious freedom alone. 05:03 You are really to share this value 05:06 because if you are alone, you are a small 05:07 minority and you have no chance, right. 05:10 And also because about our beliefs, 05:13 our theology, what does it mean religious freedom? 05:17 The core of religious freedom is the 05:19 freedom of choice, and if you read you 05:21 know the Great Controversy or the book, 05:24 Patriarchs and Prophets, you will see that is. 05:26 It is our ministry in Nazareth again with 05:28 that very concept, exactly. The liberation from 05:31 sin which is tied up to the proclamation of 05:33 the gospel. And people have 05:34 their right you know we, God give us these 05:37 faculty to choose, the right to choose, 05:40 that the possibility to choose. 05:43 There are so many beautiful texts if 05:45 you'll read Patriarchs and Prophets and 05:47 some other you know about the right to choose. 05:50 It's a gift from God and you have to 05:52 protect this gift, and you have to share, 05:55 we have to share this gift. And do you see, 05:58 I mean I think its obvious as we talk 06:00 about religious freedom even to other religious 06:03 groups, even to other Christians in a sense 06:05 where we're preaching the gospel to them, 06:08 and they may not understand it the same 06:10 way, so we can clarify truth for them. 06:12 Yeah, religious freedom doesn't mean 06:14 the same for all people, does it? 06:15 Some people it's, it's an intervention to 06:17 protect their viewpoint, where as you said, 06:20 religious freedom ultimately is the right 06:22 of man to choose on the broad front. 06:24 Exactly you know what is the alternative 06:26 of religious freedom. You know if you 06:28 don't have religious freedom, you have to 06:30 force people, not to just opposing, 06:33 being opposed to the Christian values. 06:35 You don't want to force people because 06:38 God did not force anyone to love Him or 06:41 to follow Him that's very, that's my point. 06:43 Yeah you got on to a good point there, 06:45 that I really like our viewers to recognize, 06:47 Seventh Adventist have always believed 06:50 in and perhaps we speak more in the 06:52 coming months and years about Revelation 13. 06:56 This is a great prophetic development, where a 07:00 political and religious coalition will compel 07:03 to a certain religious viewpoint, and the 07:05 key there is compel isn't it. 07:06 Yeah compel, yeah exactly. On one level you could 07:09 say well it's great that the world will come 07:11 to a point where religion is seen as 07:13 very important yeah but that's the moment 07:14 of greatest danger, exactly, when the motion. 07:17 We should never forget that we are 07:18 human nature, we have a human nature. 07:21 It means when we are powerful, we could be 07:23 very dangerous, even if we use know Christian 07:27 symbol and Christian face, we can 07:29 be very dangerous. This is why there is 07:32 very important text for us, it's a quotation 07:37 of Ellen White about religious freedom. 07:38 She said the banner of the truce and religious 07:42 liberty, you know which has been given 07:45 to the founding of the Christian church now 07:47 has been committed to our hands; 07:50 you know the banner that, I think that's a 07:53 beautiful image. You know you imagine 07:56 just a banner and many people, 07:58 most of the people will say that, would 08:00 say that if we have truce on the banner 08:02 that's enough, we don't need anything else. 08:05 What is more important than truth? 08:07 Which you say and Religious Liberty, why? 08:10 Because you can have truth and 08:12 persecute other people. You can have truth 08:15 and force other people to follow the 08:18 truth or your truth. Well it's truth fully 08:20 applied, yeah exactly, the application of 08:22 truth has to be in this principle as God said, 08:24 come let us reason together, yeah. 08:28 There is a consequence to following the wrong 08:30 course of action, but of course. 08:31 But also the Bible says, doesn't it, 08:33 vengeance is mine says God. 08:35 Yeah you and I before the beginning of this 08:38 program we talk about a very 08:40 interesting film of, was it in the 50's or 08:43 the 60's. The Seventh Seal a film maker 08:47 Ingmar Bergman. But it has a classic 08:51 scene there where there's a priest 08:55 shouting invective at his listeners and 08:58 giving them a harsh idea of God, 09:00 know you're evil people repent or 09:02 they'll be punishments from God on you. 09:04 And then that sermon is followed by a very 09:07 literal flagellation of people that are so 09:10 intimidated by what God might do to them. 09:12 We need to explain to people I think with 09:15 religious freedom, that is not the way to operate. 09:18 That God has given opportunity for each 09:21 of us to find him, and you and I might see 09:24 that someone is looking in the wrong 09:26 corner for God, yeah. But we, it's not given 09:29 to us to restrict what they're doing or to 09:31 compel them even to go the right way. 09:33 And to even to say who are saved and 09:34 who are not, you know that is the 09:36 privilege of God. And you know it's so 09:41 difficult to get the balance you know 09:43 especially in religion you know you can 09:45 have a very good intention and become, 09:48 you know sometime in history the worst 09:50 people for freedom, who are the most 09:53 convinced people about religion. 09:56 They were sure that they have the truth, 09:57 they have to defend a great ideal, but they 10:00 used the wrong way, they forced people. 10:03 They established a kind of dictatorship 10:06 which has nothing to do with God's love, 10:08 and the result and we see that in several 10:10 countries today you know the result 10:13 is people don't understand that God 10:15 loves them. They believe that God 10:18 is terror, that God wants to force, that is 10:21 just the opposite of the character of God. 10:24 Well this seems a good time to deject 10:26 the principle that this program is always 10:29 based on and how Seventh-day Adventists 10:31 Religious Liberty work is premised on 10:33 separation of church and state. 10:35 And I think a major reason behind that is 10:39 you always have an element of force when 10:41 you get the state involved with religion, 10:43 because primarily the state uprights on 10:46 force, it has legal mechanisms, 10:48 it has police and military and so on. 10:50 It's not really on the level of the churches 10:54 of the mind and the spirit. It can only do the 10:56 mechanical which is force compliance. 10:59 Yeah and you see, so you are on danger 11:01 ground when you get church and state together. 11:02 Exactly and we see that in some countries today, 11:05 you know, where you know you have a 11:07 main church or a religion which one's 11:10 really to have privileges and power and how 11:14 can you do that, which are attacked by some others. 11:18 They went to keep their rule and had be 11:20 the number one in the country. 11:22 Can you do that in making a deal with 11:25 the government? You know very easy, 11:27 you know we help you, you help us. 11:30 You know soon we will have election, 11:32 we will help you, but be careful we need 11:35 your help too, how? We have competitor, 11:38 you know people are taking us or people 11:40 are building other church or the temple 11:42 and so on. You have to protect us and yes, 11:45 you have a deal, and how can you protect 11:48 and the state will protect enforcing 11:51 people not to do that and sometimes at a 11:54 very low level, but there it is, where there 11:55 are incentives, there are disincentives, 11:57 exactly, and for to have the state monitor 11:59 and apply those is antithetical to 12:02 religious freedom. Yeah, and you know 12:04 the state as you say the state has so many 12:06 possibilities, they can pass legislation 12:09 which, and now you have no possibility to 12:12 bring missionary, you have no possibility to 12:15 open a new school, you have no possibility 12:17 to develop your seminaries or build church. 12:20 There are so many, so many ways, but it's 12:23 very dangerous at the other side. 12:25 After a little break we will be back, 12:27 I want to continue this discussion with 12:29 Dr. Graz. And we will talk about how it is 12:32 around the world in certain countries. 12:34 What is the state of the religious freedom? 12:44 One-hundred years, a long time to do 12:47 anything much less publish a magazine, 12:50 but this year Liberty, the Seventh-day Adventist 12:53 voice of religious freedom, celebrates 12:55 one hundred years of doing what it does best, 12:58 collecting, analyzing, and reporting the ebb 13:01 and flow of religious expression around the 13:03 world, issue after issue, Liberty has taken on the 13:07 tough assignments, tracking down threats 13:10 to religious freedom and exposing the work 13:11 of the devil in every corner of the globe. 13:14 Governmental interference, personal attacks, 13:17 corporate assaults, even religious 13:19 freedom issues sequestered within the 13:21 Church community itself has been clearly 13:23 and honestly exposed. Liberty exists for one 13:27 purpose to help God's people maintain that all 13:30 important separation of Church and State, 13:33 while recognizing the dangers inherent 13:35 in such a struggle. During the past century, 13:38 Liberty has experienced challenges of its own, 13:40 but it remains on the job. Thanks to the inspired 13:44 leadership of a long line of dedicated Adventist 13:46 Editors, three of whom represent almost half of 13:49 the publications existence and the 13:51 foresight of a little woman from New England. 13:54 One hundred years of struggle, one hundred 13:56 years of victories, religious freedom isn't 13:59 just about political machines 14:01 and cultural prejudices. It's about people, 14:05 fighting for the right to serve the God they love 14:08 as their hearts and the Holy Spirit dictate. 14:11 Thanks to the prayers and generous support of 14:13 Seventh-day Adventists everywhere. 14:16 Liberty will continue to accomplish its work of 14:18 providing timely information, spirit-filled 14:20 inspiration, and heaven sent encouragement to 14:23 all who long to live and work in a world bound 14:27 together by the God ordained 14:29 bonds of religious freedom. 14:40 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider. 14:42 Before the break I was talking with 14:44 Dr. John Graz about his work globally for 14:48 religious freedom and the several roles that 14:51 you carry on John. Let's talk now more 14:54 particularly about what's going on in 14:55 some of these countries, I brought 14:58 up the fact that you had a recent 14:59 conference of experts in Amman, Jordan. 15:02 Well, that's right, in the middle of the 15:04 Middle East. In the United States since 15:08 9/11 we are very conscious of Islam 15:10 even if we still know almost nothing 15:12 about it, yeah. It's obvious 15:15 that the nature of Islam tends to restrict 15:18 not religious activity but religious activity 15:20 outside the Islamic norm there. 15:23 How did you find it in Amman which 15:26 I should say has always been a fairly 15:28 moderate state? First you have to remember 15:29 that Middle East is not just a block you 15:32 know, you have different countries, 15:34 and different people different people, 15:36 mean Jordan is probably one place 15:39 which is the most open in Middle East 15:42 in term of freedom. You know Christians 15:45 can build churches and they are building 15:47 new churches close to the Jordan river which 15:51 is very interesting. And also they can 15:53 have schools, they can have a lot of things 15:56 but of course the restriction, the 15:57 number one restriction they should not try to 16:01 convert Muslim, if they do that, they 16:04 may have a lot of problem. 16:05 But you know people have been there for a 16:07 long time and we should never forget 16:09 that Christians were in Middle East before 16:12 the Muslim came, yes. You know Christian 16:15 have a long tradition and before the 16:18 crusades about 60 percent of the 16:20 population you know this is what we used 16:23 to say, were Christian in Middle East and 16:26 the decline came after the crusade and of 16:28 course now you have just a few percentage, 16:31 less and less Christians are living 16:34 in Middle East. They leaving Middle 16:36 East to the U.S. or to Europe, because they 16:39 don't see these conflicts, yeah and 16:42 also, logical and religious conflicts, 16:43 and of course, are related and 16:44 uncomfortable. Yeah, with more and more 16:47 radical Muslim, you know they feel that 16:49 they have no future for their children 16:51 there, and they have to leave. 16:53 But still you know some countries like 16:55 Lebanon but especially Jordan. 16:57 Well Lebanon is a Christian majority but 17:00 they are very close to falling fraction, 17:03 less and less, less and less, but still you have 17:05 a lot of freedom in Lebanon. 17:07 And after I should say Jordan also give a lot 17:10 of freedom too, but as I said there are some 17:12 restriction and you have to be careful 17:14 about that. You touched on a very 17:15 important point. People think that 17:19 religious freedom some of them that it's 17:20 just a matter of believing what you 17:22 want, yeah. Belief is a good starting point, 17:26 but then there is practice, and sharing. 17:29 Well this is what I was getting at, 17:30 this practice which is equally important. 17:32 There was a big fuss in the United States 17:34 recently that it seems to have blown over 17:36 where the administration were tending to use 17:39 freedom of worship, instead of freedom of religion. 17:43 Well worship is just a basic thing, yeah. 17:47 There's many things that's implied but 17:48 I think at the end of the day, it's to believe 17:50 something, it's to practice it, but it has 17:53 to be both to share that with someone 17:56 else, and then if they respond, exactly, 17:58 have them change their religion or 18:00 modify their religious viewpoint. 18:02 If you can't change, it's not only religious 18:04 freedom. It's not really religious freedom. 18:06 This is why you are right when you say 18:09 freedom of worship. There is a big 18:11 difference from my point of view and we 18:12 see that in the discussion of the 18:14 United Nation between freedom of 18:17 worship, and religious freedom. 18:19 You know Article 18 of the Universal 18:21 Declaration of Human Rights, it's about 18:23 religious freedom, not about freedom of 18:26 worship, and it includes sharing. 18:28 You are right, and it specifies 18:30 the right to change. Yeah the right to 18:32 change your religion, but for in some places 18:35 around the world they accept freedom of worship. 18:40 This is why when you speak about freedom 18:41 of worship you know you have no 18:43 opposition except maybe in North Korea. 18:46 But even in China they will not argue 18:48 with that, they say okay freedom of worship. 18:51 But you know you have the right to teach 18:53 your children, you have the right to have, 18:56 to build a church for your people. 18:59 But you have no right to share what you 19:01 believe and try to convert other people 19:04 and that is the worst thing. 19:05 So it really means that those states where 19:07 they have sensed that religion is important, 19:11 they haven't understood what religious 19:13 freedom really is because they want to 19:15 sort of balkanize it, and just choose 19:17 elements of it. Yes and also, in some 19:19 places it's all or nothing I think. 19:21 Of course it goes to their concept of 19:23 separation between church and state, 19:25 oh absolutely. And the state has 19:27 always try to become stronger 19:29 in including church or religion in it. 19:33 You know they want to control church, 19:36 one church or several churches and the 19:39 religion and to control the society through 19:43 the religious organizations 19:44 and the other side you know churches and 19:46 religion have been always tempted to use 19:49 their state to protect themselves against the 19:51 competitors. Now something very 19:53 interesting is happening at the moment in China. 19:58 We have known for years that there is the 20:01 government controlled religious entity with 20:03 the Three-Self Movement, and then rapidly 20:07 growing, and some ways overtaking and 20:09 it has been the home church movement. 20:12 I'm sure you are aware at the moment, 20:13 of course I do. Many of these home church 20:15 people are wanting to attend an international 20:17 religious conference, yeah, and what 20:19 happened do you remember? No sometimes, you know 20:22 the Chinese government have suddenly, 20:27 lately they've just sort of ignored the home 20:29 church thing. Now when these 20:30 people have applied to go out, suddenly 20:32 they have not only refused them the right 20:34 to travel, they've clamped down on the 20:36 home church and it looks like we're in for 20:38 a period of some repression on this 20:41 independent religious activity in China. 20:43 Yeah, but you know China is very 20:44 complex, it means you can see in some 20:47 part of China you are really a kind of 20:49 religious freedom, it means that the 20:51 government or the local government 20:53 doesn't really prosecute people. 20:55 In some other places they are stronger 20:57 against religion, but you know and 21:00 also under the umbrella of the Three-Self 21:02 Patriotic Movement, you have a lot of 21:04 difference, they accept the Adventist 21:08 are different. Normally everyone 21:10 should be the same, but you know they 21:12 know that on Saturday the Adventist go to church, 21:15 they use most of time Protestant Church and 21:18 for them they are part of the Three-Self, 21:20 it means okay, but you know, you have 21:23 to know that you are part of the Three-Self 21:26 Patriotic Movement, it means just one 21:28 Protestant Church, but in fact you know 21:31 people are still different, and they 21:32 will be different until the end. 21:34 Yeah, I mean the Three-Self thing 21:36 allows some freedom but ultimately it's 21:39 government control, of course it's in clear 21:42 direction of all sorts of religious behavior. 21:45 So, it's not absolutely evil, but it is not 21:48 religious freedom and the chances are that 21:51 the home church movement is more 21:54 spontaneous religious expression. 21:56 And that's very difficult to control, yes. 21:58 Actually you have that in China, 22:00 you know in China we used to say that 22:02 according to the official figure that 22:04 maybe about 20 million Chinese are 22:08 Protestants, and most of them are 22:09 Pentecostals, even if they are in traditional 22:13 organization. And about six millions 22:16 six to eight millions are Catholic. 22:18 But you know you have other figure that 22:19 they say that probably close to 50 million are 22:22 Protestants there. It means that's very 22:24 difficult to know how many. 22:27 But it does show phenomenon religion 22:30 is just one aspect of human behavior, 22:32 but I think there is a phenomenon 22:33 something is what humans innately 22:37 might have a hunger for, and then if you're 22:39 outlawed, you're actually going to 22:41 breed it. So, in some ways the best thing 22:44 that can happen for religion is that it made 22:47 hard to get or the government try to 22:50 restrict it directly. Oh yes, and you will see 22:52 that, it will flourish; you see that in some 22:54 other countries. You know the strategy 22:55 of the government is to recognize a certain 22:58 number of religion or churches, may be 10, 23:01 may be 12 and try to establish some criteria. 23:05 Today you know in Hungary there are 23:07 some discussion about having a law if you 23:10 don't have 10,000 members you won't 23:13 be recognized as the church by the government. 23:16 You know it gives a power to the 23:18 government that we should not say that, 23:20 the government will say okay you know as 23:22 long as you respect the law of the country 23:24 yeah you are free to organize yourself. 23:27 But and also and you have problem if you 23:29 say you need to be 10,000 in my country 23:33 to be recognized. It means if you are 23:35 Lutheran and you are just 1000 members 23:38 you will not be recognized as a 23:39 church, what does it mean? 23:41 You know it has no sense, if you are 23:43 Catholic and you are part of the largest 23:47 church Christian church in the world 23:49 with more than 1.2 billion you are not 23:52 recognized because you are not 10,000 23:55 members, its nonsense, but this is what they 23:58 try, why? Because they want to control. 24:00 Of course and I think those people who 24:03 might not understand the Religious Liberty 24:05 argument, when you put it in the political 24:07 sphere know very well. Someone is running 24:09 for office and someone they have 24:10 typically have to get numbers, certain 24:12 number of signatures and so on to qualify 24:14 as a candidate, that's always used to keep 24:18 opposition to a minimum and 24:19 disempower them. And the same thing is 24:23 often done with religion and worse 24:25 I know you and I've both seen this. 24:27 In some of these countries that require 24:28 these registration procedures and accept 24:30 certain religions, they will sometimes use 24:33 the acceptance by the few to get them to 24:36 ally with the state to then marginalized the 24:38 small groups. And also there is 24:40 something that we have to underline, 24:43 if the state control the religion, they will try 24:47 to control churches through the people, 24:49 and this is why you have sometime low 24:51 that you cannot be the head of a church in 24:54 one country if you are not a 24:55 citizen of that country. What does it mean? 24:58 If you are citizen of the country, 25:00 the state have a longer pressure on you, 25:02 you know they can say, no you will not 25:04 travel, we can give privileges and it 25:06 works always like that you know, we can 25:08 give privileges, we invite to official 25:11 meeting or we will not give you a visa to 25:14 travel, a system of patronage. 25:16 Yeah and at the end you know you are 25:18 under the control, and of course you 25:21 your freedom, yeah. So, you know it 25:23 comes back to I think it was AT Jones wrote 25:25 a book The Two Kingdoms wasn't it, 25:27 one of the titles of his books. 25:29 But this concept ha been around as long 25:31 as there has been a discussion 25:32 of religious freedom. At the end of the day 25:34 we really have to recognize that they 25:36 are indeed two kingdoms, God's 25:38 kingdom and the kingdom of man, 25:39 and they're not always at odds, but they have 25:41 very clear lines of demarcation and the 25:46 trick, it's a divinely inspired trick is for a 25:50 Christian to live in the kingdom of man and 25:53 to serve the kingdom of God. 25:54 Yeah, and to respect as long as it is 25:57 possible to respect the kingdom of man, 25:59 of course, to be a good citizen, 26:01 but sometime you have opposition, 26:03 you have contradiction. What I think which is 26:06 fabulous if you follow the kingdom of God is 26:09 you know you follow God who gave us to 26:13 everyone of us the freedom to choose, 26:16 and why? Because God loves us, and you 26:20 cannot, you cannot really love someone if 26:23 you don't give him or her the freedom to 26:26 love you in return. And this is why 26:29 I believe in religious freedom. Religious 26:30 freedom is of course human rights, it's true, 26:33 it's a very strong human right but also 26:36 is a part of the character of God. 26:38 I believe in religious freedom because 26:40 religious freedom is a gift from God. 26:45 One of the great privileges of working 26:47 in the Religious Liberty area is some 26:50 of the dialogues and context that we have 26:54 with those to share a different 26:56 faith point of view. I know there are some 26:59 people within my church Seventh-day 27:00 Adventist Church to say we are correct you 27:02 now, why do we deal with these people, 27:04 we shouldn't discuss, or we might be 27:06 compromising. They really miss the 27:08 point all together. By discussing religious 27:12 issues and our shared concern for religious 27:15 freedom with these other groups, 27:18 we sharpen our own sense of 27:19 distinctiveness and we gain allies in 27:23 defending our own rights to project what 27:26 we believe. You know in the Bible, 27:28 God on one occasion said in a very 27:32 persuasive manner, he said, come let us 27:35 reason together. And there can be nothing 27:38 wrong in fact everything right with 27:40 sitting down to dialogue even with 27:42 those who have diametrically opposed 27:44 religious viewpoints. Of course they might 27:47 think that they are gonna persuade us to 27:49 their viewpoint, just as we might think so. 27:52 But if both have open minds and look 27:54 clearly at the facts truth will be served 27:57 and God will be honored by our search 27:59 for truth and our faith integrity. 28:01 That at root is a big part of what 28:03 we do in Religious Liberty. 28:06 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17