Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the
program that brings you
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up to date news,
discussion, views,
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dialogue and
information that you may
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not have heard before on
religious liberty issues.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the program is
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Attorney Barry
Bussey, I don't know
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if you're being
identified on screen
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but I'll do it
as well. You're the
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Legislative Liaison
or have functioned as the
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Legislative Liaison for the
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Seventh-Day
Adventist Church headquarters
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in Washington DC.
The Liaison to Congress
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and the Senate and the
House of Representatives.
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I want to get a
bit of a sense from you
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about what's going
there. Well, I can tell you
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right now, it's
kind of like a stalemate,
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you know since the
election of Senator Brown
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of the
Massachusetts which he won
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the Ted Kennedy's old
seat which was of course.
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That was a real upset,
real upset when you think
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of before Ted it
was John. F. Kennedy
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they had it and so
forth. Basically what's
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happened now
you've got the Republicans
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having 40 Senators
and so forth which now
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they're able to use
the threat of filibuster
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and as we're now moving
into the election season
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and I was just
reading, just the other day
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that there's even talk
now of shutting Congress
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even a week earlier
so that they can have
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more time to do electioneering.
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Meanwhile they've
just been on a long
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summer break and all the rest,
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but the point of the
matter is that right now
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things are out of stalemate.
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People are in a,
a lot of democrats
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are very concerned
about whether or not
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they're gonna be
reelected. There is a lot
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of angst over
various bills and in essence
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if the Democrats,
the President for example
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just recently
announced another $50 billion
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stimulus program. But
the Republicans will say
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good luck on you,
we're not gonna be interested
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in supporting that
and so you've got this,
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this real sense of
not much is gonna happen
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and then when they do come back,
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then you're in
that nebulous period
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between election and beginning
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of the new session, and
you know that's considered
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By the way it
just, even as you talk
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about the
stimulus, it just hit me
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an interesting
analogy. You know, sometimes
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too much
stimulation can create lethargy
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to a nervous
system. Yeah, well, I mean.
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And certainly with
children you don't wanna
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over stimulate
them, bad things happen.
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Well, I tell you the
thing is right now in Congress
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is we're seeing a
US legislative system
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that is really
not grounded to a halt
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but all of the
major. That impression,
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the regular business
is not being conducted
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as it should be.
Yeah. As far as not
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religious liberty
but matters that concern
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religious
activity. President Bush
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in the previous
administration brought
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in something that
in Liberty Magazine
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I objected to greatly,
the faith-based initiative.
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Candidate Obama said
that he would continue that,
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but plus and I
haven't heard much about it,
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do you hear much
or see much evidence
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in Washington of
this continuing fund
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of any continuing
funding of faith-based
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church programs.
Well, the way the program
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is set up so that
churches and faith-based
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organizations can
apply to government agencies
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in order to get
funding and that just because
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they were
faith-based agency was not going
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to mean that they
would not be eligible
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with everyone else is applying.
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There was a lot
of discussion under
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President Obama or I
should say the candidate
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Obama that he was
going to take away
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the right of those
organizations to be able
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to hire to whom.
Yes, that's where they
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would have faith.
They couldn't discriminate.
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Discriminate it. And
that sounds reasonable to me,
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that's consistent under Bush,
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they wanted the
money which improperly
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and to be
allowed to discriminate,
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and take at needed to scenario.
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Right, but yet at the
same time there's also
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very strong
argument that says well look
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faith-based groups
should be able to continue
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operating their programs
and not be discriminated
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against themselves
just because they got
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government money, and
I know that's the whole
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interesting debate in of itself.
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But the point of the matter is,
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is that to date
this administration
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has not taken any
action against that.
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That's what I wanted
to hear, I've gotten that
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distinct impression,
there is not much going
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and they're
certainly not acting negatively
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towards you. No,
the way what's happened
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is that this matter has
been, officially the word
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is it's been sent over
to Department of Justice,
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Department of
Justice is looking into it
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and that's where it
sits. And I don't know
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the answer to this
but you're closer to
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day to day
affairs in Washington.
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But I would have
guessed that with the
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stimulus money, you
were talking about you know
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nearly $2 trillion
so far with the Bush
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and now the Obama
administration trying
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to resurrect the
economy. I would have guessed
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that some of that,
more of that money than
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before would have
been flowing through
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the churches,
but I don't think so.
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You know, that I
don't know but you know
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just think about
a trillion dollars
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for a minute. It
was under Ronald Reagan
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when the United
States crossed the debt
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of $1 trillion and
I remember way back
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in the 80's that
was considered like
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absolutely
astronomical. Yeah, and then in,
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you know within the
first month of office
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there was a trillion
dollars stimulus package.
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I mean we're
talking about huge washes
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of money here
that. And then office
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was gonna be careful
from originally from the
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British system
millions and trillions,
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as I remember
their order of ten larger
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under the British
system, but a trillion
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isn't that a
million. A million billion.
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A million billion.
It's just numbers beyond.
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And there are
many whole industries
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in the United States,
the entire economic activity
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for that industry like
say footwear for example
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is measured in
the tens of billions.
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So, when you got
a trillions dollars,
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it's almost an
unimaginable amount
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and figured
against regular earnings
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it's rather
ridiculous. The debt to earnings
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ratio in the United
States is something that
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a private individual
would be facing bankruptcy.
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Oh no question about
it. And I'm surprised that
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there is an air
of normalcy because
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this is
essentially economic meltdown.
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Yeah, but here is
the thing and of course
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the whole economic thing
plays a big important role
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when it comes to
religious freedom because
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we've seen
throughout history that whenever
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there's been financial stresses,
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lots of times our
civil liberties. Of course.
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They get restricted,
and in this particular case
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it's in my view it's
kind of like the frog
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in a kettle. You know,
we've been bended about
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with all of these trillions,
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and billions of
dollars and you opened up
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Washington Post
for example; you see
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page after page
after page after page
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of housing
foreclosures in the DC area
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and it's like.
In my neighborhood.
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Yeah, and I mean it's throughout
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the entire country.
There's dozens of houses
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within several blocks of
where I live, half prices.
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That's right, I
mean it's just phenomenal
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what's gonna, but what happens
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is we do have a new
sense of normalcy developing
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and then as we move
on further into crises
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we just simply get
adjusted. And I mean
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it's our human mechanism
to be able to cope with.
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Which you need.
Yes. Because we need
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to have some
stability, but you're right,
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and you bring it
into the right context.
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It's of interest to
you and need to talk
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about economics, but
the real relevance is that
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we're practically
speaking effects civil
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and religious liberties
because we're a society
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under stress and
it'll only increase
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and at the same
time as we've said before
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we have an
international conflict
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with religious ramifications,
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the war on terrorism
as Secretary of Defense
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Rumsfeld used to say
it will last our lifetime.
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So it's never ending
war of a religious nature
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or a religious subtext, and now
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economic meltdown.
That was the environment
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that we need to watch
very carefully to defend
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religious
freedom. One of the things
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I have been
noticing too as well Lincoln,
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I don't think
we've really set back
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and just look
at the big picture.
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But as I walk the
streets, as I go from the
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capital building you
know over to my office
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or wherever
there in Capitol Hill.
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There is no
question that I sense
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I mean a police state of sorts,
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I mean everywhere I
look there are police.
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I am glad you say
it, I feel nervous
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when I say it, but I
think the same thing.
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No, but I mean it's
just, I am not saying it
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in a negative
sense, well, I mean
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it's negative
but it's troubling.
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It's troubling that
we've now, here's the world
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superpower at its
capital. Yes, there's freedom
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but the point of the
matter is we're being
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watched constantly,
always under surveillance
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and you really
sense that when you're in
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Washington, and
more and more throughout
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no matter where we
go across this country.
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We're seeing
all kind of sensors.
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We're seeing all
kinds of video cameras
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on the you know, intersection.
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And proliferation
of different types of
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police forces you
know I should numerate them
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but that's not just
the simple police there's
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four or five levels of
security police uniform,
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wandering around Washington,
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even at the
airports, you and I just flown.
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I see ads in my
lifetime I've never seen before,
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huge ads advertising
for people to join the
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clandestine
services of the government.
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It's the growing
industry. Well, speaking about
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a growing
industry. Stock prices may be
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in trouble but not that area.
00:10:32.99\00:10:34.03
But let me tell you something,
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Washington Post few months back
00:10:35.26\00:10:37.80
did a three day
series on this very thing,
00:10:37.83\00:10:41.66
they called it
Top Secret America.
00:10:41.69\00:10:43.21
In that three day
spread of news story
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which was a
absolutely phenomenal.
00:10:48.37\00:10:51.06
I'm surprised that
there has not been much more
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discussion about
it, eight hundred
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and sixty thousand
people full time as far as
00:10:56.91\00:11:00.54
they know in thousands
of sites around this country
00:11:00.57\00:11:06.43
are involved in surveillance,
00:11:06.46\00:11:09.14
are involved in
looking into the affairs
00:11:09.17\00:11:13.90
of the citizens of
this country and no doubt
00:11:13.93\00:11:16.68
the citizens of the
world, but there is an
00:11:16.71\00:11:20.79
amazing amount of
gathering of information
00:11:20.82\00:11:24.56
and watching that's
going on in this bubble
00:11:24.59\00:11:29.01
that they call
Top Secret America.
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And there is no accountability
00:11:31.33\00:11:35.00
as to how much
funding all of this has cost.
00:11:35.03\00:11:37.47
There is just
like we needed because
00:11:37.50\00:11:41.90
of you know
America being under siege.
00:11:41.93\00:11:44.61
You know, I must say like that
00:11:44.64\00:11:47.35
you've lived
sometime in the United States.
00:11:47.38\00:11:50.00
I've lived a lot
of my life, most of it
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and I counted it
really as my home now,
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I mean now really it is my home.
00:11:54.14\00:11:55.78
I just happen to still have an
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Australian accent
like. I do not think there's
00:11:57.11\00:12:01.93
any coordinated
or central malice
00:12:01.96\00:12:05.42
to any of this yet. Oh! No.
00:12:05.45\00:12:06.94
I think the vast
majority of people as always
00:12:06.97\00:12:10.22
are in government as
well as the general citizen
00:12:10.25\00:12:13.12
are amazingly open and
wanting to help the system
00:12:13.15\00:12:16.73
that they're a part
of, but we have a structure
00:12:16.76\00:12:19.17
that you started
to describe that is a
00:12:19.20\00:12:21.69
security state and
we are under stress
00:12:21.72\00:12:24.17
and history is a
pretty good guide,
00:12:24.20\00:12:26.74
at some point this information
00:12:26.77\00:12:28.89
that's being
gathered will be used in a way
00:12:28.92\00:12:31.48
that will
negatively impact some group,
00:12:31.51\00:12:33.48
and since
religion is a major marker
00:12:33.51\00:12:36.33
of human
activity, it's very likely
00:12:36.36\00:12:38.61
that religious
conflict will then unleash
00:12:38.64\00:12:43.37
this on some group.
I remember talking not
00:12:43.40\00:12:47.08
too long ago I
think on this program
00:12:47.11\00:12:48.52
I may have mentioned
it to young men that works
00:12:48.55\00:12:52.68
down Washington in
some computer office,
00:12:52.71\00:12:55.27
centralized computer
thing and he hinted at
00:12:55.30\00:12:58.70
some of the stuff
they're doing he says
00:12:58.73\00:13:00.69
you wouldn't believe
but he has pointed out
00:13:00.72\00:13:02.47
something very interesting.
00:13:02.50\00:13:03.51
He says as the
Seventh-Day Adventist
00:13:03.54\00:13:04.81
example he
says, don't think that
00:13:04.84\00:13:07.32
you're not known.
He said all of the
00:13:07.35\00:13:10.86
information is
gathered from every source
00:13:10.89\00:13:13.06
and he said,
it's put into a matrix
00:13:13.09\00:13:15.06
and just literally by
pressing a button there
00:13:15.09\00:13:18.21
will be a ring around
your activities on Sabbath.
00:13:18.24\00:13:22.64
You think about it,
if you don't buy gas,
00:13:22.67\00:13:25.55
if you travel
much, if you don't fly,
00:13:25.58\00:13:27.86
you don't have to
identify yourself.
00:13:27.89\00:13:30.86
It stands out, but
the matrix of information
00:13:30.89\00:13:33.65
instantly would say
oh! This is a person
00:13:33.68\00:13:35.71
that's keeping
Seventh-Day Sabbath
00:13:35.74\00:13:37.06
and that's good,
I want to be known
00:13:37.09\00:13:39.68
as a Sabbath
keeper, not a secret piece
00:13:39.71\00:13:41.51
of secret
information. But the power
00:13:41.54\00:13:44.10
of the computer
and proliferation
00:13:44.13\00:13:46.42
of information means
that at the press of a button
00:13:46.45\00:13:48.87
decisions could be made
to categorize this group,
00:13:48.90\00:13:51.63
that group. At
the push of a button
00:13:51.66\00:13:53.77
as the Bible says
you could be disconnected
00:13:53.80\00:13:57.09
from your credit,
your computer card
00:13:57.12\00:13:58.83
and all the
rest, it's as those who
00:13:58.86\00:14:00.82
you cannot buy, nor
sell. 'Cause have the mark
00:14:00.85\00:14:03.02
of the beast, what
that mark of the beast
00:14:03.05\00:14:04.02
does beyond knowing
that it's a religious test
00:14:04.03\00:14:07.71
and perhaps at the
point of religious loyalty
00:14:07.74\00:14:10.26
we don't know how it
will be administered. Right.
00:14:10.29\00:14:12.39
But this type of
thing we can already see.
00:14:12.42\00:14:14.75
Oh! It is. The
intimations of the future.
00:14:14.78\00:14:18.41
Oh! Absolutely you know back,
00:14:18.44\00:14:21.05
I grew up in New
Finland and they had a huge net
00:14:21.08\00:14:25.26
the travelers
would put out these huge
00:14:25.29\00:14:27.63
massive nets and we
just kind of go I don't know
00:14:27.66\00:14:30.57
if it wasn't for miles
but then it would be brought
00:14:30.60\00:14:34.14
and gathered in
and there's no question
00:14:34.17\00:14:36.86
that the net of information
00:14:36.89\00:14:38.21
is being
disturbing. We'll be back after
00:14:38.24\00:14:41.37
the break. This
discussion is very engrossing
00:14:41.40\00:14:44.09
and I ask you to join
us after a short break.
00:14:44.12\00:14:46.24
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:14:54.32\00:14:58.26
much less publish a magazine,
00:14:58.29\00:15:00.01
but this year Liberty,
the Seventh-Day Adventist
00:15:00.04\00:15:03.64
voice of religious
freedom, celebrates
00:15:03.67\00:15:05.80
one hundred years of
doing what it does best,
00:15:05.83\00:15:08.47
collecting,
analyzing, and reporting the ebb
00:15:08.50\00:15:12.05
and flow of religious expression
00:15:12.08\00:15:13.44
around the world.
Issue after issues,
00:15:13.47\00:15:16.29
Liberty has taken on
the tough assignments,
00:15:16.32\00:15:18.90
tracking down
threats to religious freedom
00:15:18.93\00:15:21.13
and exposing the work of
the devil in every corner
00:15:21.16\00:15:24.00
of the globe.
Governmental interference,
00:15:24.03\00:15:26.05
personal attacks,
corporate assaults,
00:15:26.08\00:15:28.64
even religious
freedom issues sequestered
00:15:28.67\00:15:30.88
within the
church community itself
00:15:30.91\00:15:32.36
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:15:32.39\00:15:34.96
Liberty exists for
one purpose to help
00:15:34.99\00:15:38.57
God's people maintain
that all the important
00:15:38.60\00:15:41.16
separation of Church
and State, while recognizing
00:15:41.19\00:15:44.12
the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:15:44.15\00:15:46.45
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:15:46.48\00:15:49.48
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:15:49.51\00:15:52.98
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line
00:15:53.01\00:15:55.97
of dedicated Adventist Editors,
00:15:56.00\00:15:57.22
three of whom
represent almost half of the
00:15:57.25\00:15:59.54
publications
existence and the foresight
00:15:59.57\00:16:01.91
of a little
woman from New England.
00:16:01.94\00:16:03.74
One hundred years of struggle,
00:16:03.77\00:16:05.97
one hundred years of victories,
00:16:06.00\00:16:08.14
religious
freedom isn't just about
00:16:08.17\00:16:10.39
political machines
and cultural prejudices.
00:16:10.42\00:16:13.06
It's about people
fighting for the right to serve
00:16:13.09\00:16:16.95
the God they
love as their hearts
00:16:16.98\00:16:19.19
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:16:19.22\00:16:21.33
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:16:21.36\00:16:23.84
of Seventh-Day
Adventists everywhere.
00:16:23.87\00:16:25.82
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work
00:16:25.85\00:16:28.36
of providing timely information,
00:16:28.39\00:16:30.12
spirit filled
inspiration, and heaven sent
00:16:30.15\00:16:32.67
encouragement to
all who long to live
00:16:32.70\00:16:35.66
and work in a world
bound together by the God
00:16:35.69\00:16:39.03
ordained bonds of
religious freedom.
00:16:39.06\00:16:42.17
Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
00:16:50.27\00:16:52.46
Before the discussion we
were talking with my guest
00:16:52.49\00:16:56.47
Barry Bussey. We were
talking about the gift
00:16:56.50\00:17:02.14
"the modern electronic
era is given to surveillance
00:17:02.17\00:17:06.70
and to harvesting of
information probably not
00:17:06.73\00:17:10.33
with any particular
malice yet, but a structure
00:17:10.36\00:17:12.94
that is little
ominously like some of the
00:17:12.97\00:17:17.81
communist regimes
and other who busied
00:17:17.84\00:17:21.90
themselves greatly
about getting information.
00:17:21.93\00:17:23.76
Now it's thrown in the
life of the Government,
00:17:23.79\00:17:25.26
isn't it? Well, I
mean you look at every
00:17:25.29\00:17:27.34
transaction you do
with your credit card.
00:17:27.37\00:17:30.55
What is it you're
buying? What kind of consumer
00:17:30.58\00:17:34.36
are you? So you can
track you know exactly
00:17:34.39\00:17:38.41
where you're
traveling by where you're buying
00:17:38.44\00:17:40.21
your gas and all of
that. Every key stroke
00:17:40.24\00:17:41.98
of the computer is captured,
00:17:42.01\00:17:43.22
every key stroke.
People think it's only
00:17:43.25\00:17:45.65
on the hard drive, if
you are on the Internet
00:17:45.68\00:17:47.64
particularly.
Well I mean that's,
00:17:47.67\00:17:49.69
other than that they
have to go on your hard drive,
00:17:49.72\00:17:51.31
but when connected
and people don't realize
00:17:51.34\00:17:54.20
that even when
they're not on the Internet
00:17:54.23\00:17:55.54
most of the times
they still are connected
00:17:55.57\00:17:57.62
electronically,
televisions, cable
00:17:57.65\00:17:59.83
that's a two-way
thing. They know your
00:17:59.86\00:18:02.60
viewing habits. They
know every key stroke.
00:18:02.63\00:18:05.66
They know where you've
gone, what you've bought.
00:18:05.69\00:18:07.09
And you and I
couldn't make much sense of it,
00:18:07.12\00:18:11.24
but there's
computers now that suck it up
00:18:11.27\00:18:13.37
and spit it out as
a matrix of patterns
00:18:13.40\00:18:16.20
of behavior and
judgments are being made
00:18:16.23\00:18:18.56
not only in the
war on terrorism,
00:18:18.59\00:18:20.25
but on how to
govern and how to intervene
00:18:20.28\00:18:23.32
in people's lives based on this.
00:18:23.35\00:18:25.09
You know, here's the thing.
00:18:25.12\00:18:26.63
People don't realize
but if Google is able
00:18:26.66\00:18:30.00
to which they do are
constantly surveilling,
00:18:30.03\00:18:33.72
having their users being watched
00:18:33.75\00:18:38.38
for marketing
issues and so forth.
00:18:38.41\00:18:40.83
What do you think
government is doing,
00:18:40.86\00:18:43.18
I mean it just you
know we have to wake up
00:18:43.21\00:18:45.96
and recognize that
we are all definitely
00:18:45.99\00:18:49.69
being watched, every
time we across the border,
00:18:49.72\00:18:51.45
every time we go,
you know all of the
00:18:51.48\00:18:53.65
information is there.
And yeah, I better not go
00:18:53.68\00:18:57.85
with it too much,
it can sound paranoid
00:18:57.88\00:18:59.48
and we don't want to,
no, allow our viewers,
00:18:59.51\00:19:02.05
but we want to impress on them
00:19:02.08\00:19:04.05
that this is a new paradigm.
00:19:04.08\00:19:05.76
Well, we're in a
totally different world
00:19:05.79\00:19:07.96
and even you know
when we come from 9/11/2001
00:19:07.99\00:19:13.13
to today, I mean it's
absolutely phenomenal.
00:19:13.16\00:19:16.46
And what 9/11 did
was not so much create
00:19:16.49\00:19:19.34
all of this but it put
the fast forward button
00:19:19.37\00:19:21.79
on it. That's right.
Things that were in place
00:19:21.82\00:19:23.45
were brought to
fruition very quickly
00:19:23.48\00:19:25.55
and I don't think
there's any stopping it now.
00:19:25.58\00:19:28.15
And even though I'm
uncomfortable with it,
00:19:28.18\00:19:30.33
I am under no
illusions we cannot turn back
00:19:30.36\00:19:33.33
this tendency to surveillance.
00:19:33.36\00:19:35.41
All we can do on
religious liberty
00:19:35.44\00:19:37.58
and civil liberty, we
can be maintain our vigilance
00:19:37.61\00:19:40.96
and speak out
ever more forcefully
00:19:40.99\00:19:42.96
on the importance of protecting
00:19:42.99\00:19:44.60
these basic values,
but we need to recognize
00:19:44.63\00:19:47.83
that they are more easily than
00:19:47.86\00:19:49.40
ever before circumvented.
Now one of the things
00:19:49.43\00:19:52.22
that we have seen
under Communist rule
00:19:52.25\00:19:57.76
and some other
rules throughout history
00:19:57.79\00:20:00.84
is that when
government says something
00:20:00.87\00:20:03.75
that as a whole the
people would follow it
00:20:03.78\00:20:07.96
almost like
sheep you know we just
00:20:07.99\00:20:09.50
simply carry on,
and we don't know
00:20:09.53\00:20:14.10
what the future
is. We got no idea
00:20:14.13\00:20:16.00
as to how
everything will be playing out.
00:20:16.03\00:20:18.25
But one of the
things that really concerns
00:20:18.28\00:20:21.10
me is that, are
we as God's people?
00:20:21.13\00:20:25.28
Are we spending
the time with our Lord
00:20:26.13\00:20:29.64
and our God in our prayer time,
00:20:29.67\00:20:31.69
in our worship or
are we getting so caught
00:20:31.72\00:20:35.12
into the things, I mean
there are so many things,
00:20:35.15\00:20:38.45
the Internet alone, the
people's time that just,
00:20:38.48\00:20:41.55
we don't even
recognize that time is passing
00:20:41.58\00:20:44.35
when we are on the
Internet. Many of us
00:20:44.38\00:20:47.39
if we go one day
without being on the Internet
00:20:47.42\00:20:50.19
we think we're in
some kind of a fast,
00:20:50.22\00:20:52.90
but the reality is
that we've got to recognize
00:20:53.36\00:20:58.60
I mean can you
imagine if the early Adventist
00:20:58.63\00:21:01.66
pioneers were to
just suddenly wake up
00:21:01.69\00:21:03.73
and come and walk
for one day and see all
00:21:03.76\00:21:07.57
that is going on.
I think they would be
00:21:07.60\00:21:10.48
absolutely impressed
with what I try to bring out
00:21:10.51\00:21:12.73
and you've being saying too,
00:21:12.76\00:21:14.43
that we're in a new age
and perhaps the last age.
00:21:14.46\00:21:18.62
Things have spun not
so much out of control
00:21:18.65\00:21:22.78
but as far as the
norms of the early
00:21:22.81\00:21:25.40
Adventist pioneers,
this is what clearly fulfills
00:21:25.43\00:21:28.44
the most bizarre
predictions of prophecy.
00:21:28.47\00:21:32.05
That's right,
but. It's in our face
00:21:32.08\00:21:33.93
and I was about to say
earlier and I'll throw it,
00:21:33.96\00:21:35.86
it was from the Bible.
You know the book 1984.
00:21:35.89\00:21:38.49
Yes. I used to
write editorials of that
00:21:38.52\00:21:41.31
in the 70s and I think
it was a very prescient
00:21:41.34\00:21:45.45
book but in reality
it's so far behind this,
00:21:45.48\00:21:47.87
you know, I mean
not that it happened
00:21:47.90\00:21:49.36
but the scenario
he portrayed, Oh!
00:21:49.39\00:21:52.45
That we were only
under that sort of control.
00:21:52.48\00:21:54.62
Yeah, because the fact
is he only had the limited
00:21:54.65\00:21:57.67
understanding of
technology but if we were
00:21:57.70\00:21:59.42
to project as to
what could happen with.
00:21:59.45\00:22:02.28
And you know
the Bible, God says,
00:22:02.31\00:22:05.54
you know I think
it was his comments
00:22:05.57\00:22:08.66
about the flood, you
know we need to restrain man,
00:22:08.69\00:22:10.50
because who knows what will be,
00:22:10.53\00:22:11.91
what his
imagination will take him to,
00:22:11.94\00:22:14.81
but just on crowd
control and marketing
00:22:14.84\00:22:18.01
and government
control of people.
00:22:18.04\00:22:21.30
There are too many
people now studying
00:22:21.33\00:22:24.11
how to manipulate your
thinking and my thinking.
00:22:24.14\00:22:26.95
How to move you like
the herd, or the sheep
00:22:26.98\00:22:30.74
that you talk about.
We are being absolutely
00:22:30.77\00:22:33.21
studied and
manipulated as it's never before
00:22:33.24\00:22:35.79
in human history.
Even down, you know
00:22:35.82\00:22:38.70
the car manufacturers
they know a certain shape
00:22:38.73\00:22:40.81
is going to appeal and
it's not just they have
00:22:40.84\00:22:43.78
some gut feeling. They
have studied scientific
00:22:43.81\00:22:46.13
analysis and they
know that this is a 20
00:22:46.16\00:22:49.50
something woman,
the college educated
00:22:49.53\00:22:51.51
will buy this,
this other car is a
00:22:51.54\00:22:53.64
middle aged man
thing, saying you know
00:22:53.67\00:22:56.78
Oldsmobile perhaps we
could have all guessed it
00:22:56.81\00:22:59.23
as an old people's
car. But even like the grill
00:22:59.26\00:23:02.52
like for instance if
the grill has kind of like
00:23:02.55\00:23:04.95
a smiley face. It's
more, more apt to be bought
00:23:04.98\00:23:09.27
by woman and so forth
because she wants that.
00:23:09.30\00:23:11.88
So what they have
studied and you know
00:23:11.91\00:23:14.56
the Bible makes a
quite plan. That Satan,
00:23:14.59\00:23:17.86
the evil forces
have studied mankind,
00:23:17.89\00:23:20.42
our weaknesses,
trying to manipulate us.
00:23:20.45\00:23:23.12
God know this,
he knows our frame
00:23:23.15\00:23:25.42
that we're dust, and
he's trying to influence us
00:23:25.45\00:23:27.21
to the good but unfortunately
00:23:27.24\00:23:29.19
we're really more
and more the play things
00:23:29.22\00:23:31.68
of negative forces.
And I think as you say,
00:23:31.71\00:23:34.24
we need to keep up
our priority straight.
00:23:34.27\00:23:36.03
You and I would
go to the Internet
00:23:36.06\00:23:37.82
and read newspapers and so on,
00:23:37.85\00:23:39.34
it's the necessity of
our job, but Ellen White
00:23:39.37\00:23:41.70
writing to early
Adventist Pioneers
00:23:41.73\00:23:43.53
pointed that
something that most people
00:23:43.56\00:23:45.24
don't really think
about. There is a lot of what
00:23:45.27\00:23:47.64
floats surround
in modern society
00:23:47.67\00:23:49.24
that human brain is
better not exposed too.
00:23:49.27\00:23:51.92
Okay. I am old
enough to remember the era
00:23:51.95\00:23:54.98
of Walker
Cronkite the Vietnam war.
00:23:55.01\00:23:56.75
The shock of
America citizenry to see
00:23:56.78\00:23:59.00
soldiers,
American soldiers killed
00:23:59.03\00:24:00.73
on the screen in front of tea,
00:24:00.76\00:24:01.73
you see at every night now.
00:24:01.74\00:24:03.66
Headless bodies and
butchered bloated figures
00:24:03.69\00:24:07.97
from some war or
somewhere, but that's
00:24:08.00\00:24:10.66
just the tip of the iceberg.
00:24:10.69\00:24:12.86
It's dehumanizing
us. We've been putting
00:24:12.89\00:24:15.76
a highly suggestible
state to the perpetual
00:24:15.79\00:24:19.03
shock I think. This
overload to our system
00:24:19.06\00:24:21.36
and we need to decide
at this point probably
00:24:21.39\00:24:24.25
almost too late what
we are going to focus on
00:24:24.28\00:24:26.37
and I think we
don't want to be you know
00:24:26.40\00:24:29.03
bring the Islamic
countries where I see
00:24:29.06\00:24:31.43
rooms full of
little kids chanting
00:24:31.46\00:24:33.02
the crown day in and day out.
00:24:33.05\00:24:34.21
That's probably
not healthy for a human
00:24:34.24\00:24:36.88
mind to be so
fixated on something.
00:24:36.91\00:24:38.88
But to fill our minds
in a positive thinking way
00:24:38.91\00:24:42.74
with reading of God's
word is a very profitable
00:24:42.77\00:24:46.90
diversion from the,
just the slew of information
00:24:46.93\00:24:49.85
that is just coming
at us day in and day out,
00:24:49.88\00:24:52.34
useless information most of it.
00:24:52.37\00:24:53.94
But and this information
does not give us wisdom
00:24:53.97\00:24:57.20
I think that's what one of the.
00:24:57.23\00:24:58.51
No, its evil loaded.
Yeah, people think that okay,
00:24:58.54\00:25:01.48
let's get more
and more information,
00:25:01.51\00:25:03.70
so we can become wise
but that's not allowing us
00:25:03.73\00:25:05.81
to become wise. In the
way in which we were able
00:25:05.84\00:25:08.13
to become wise
is simply being able
00:25:08.16\00:25:09.86
to spend a time, a
quite time with Lord,
00:25:09.89\00:25:13.17
with the scripture
and letting the Lord speak
00:25:13.20\00:25:15.93
to us and I think in
our society right now
00:25:15.96\00:25:18.66
and with all that is going on,
00:25:18.69\00:25:21.07
we're losing
out on that intimate
00:25:21.10\00:25:24.25
relationship with
the Lord. And ironically,
00:25:24.28\00:25:26.62
we couldn't have
another program on this,
00:25:26.65\00:25:28.38
I think with prophet. In the
00:25:28.41\00:25:32.74
Seventh Adventist
Church and another
00:25:32.77\00:25:33.89
Christian
communities, there's a awareness
00:25:33.92\00:25:37.33
that the spiritual
lick and people are now
00:25:37.36\00:25:39.35
seeking
spirituality for their own aim.
00:25:39.38\00:25:41.67
Yes, they are. And
spirituality devoid
00:25:41.70\00:25:43.86
of context is very dangerous.
00:25:43.89\00:25:45.80
What we need to do is
to go back to the document,
00:25:45.83\00:25:49.22
in this case the
Bible, be conversant with that
00:25:49.25\00:25:52.23
and all of this
information is flying
00:25:52.26\00:25:54.79
around. Once we know
the basic then all of this
00:25:54.82\00:25:58.02
has a context and
we can process it,
00:25:58.05\00:26:01.21
and I think then it
will create a spirituality,
00:26:01.24\00:26:04.20
a point of spiritual reference.
00:26:04.23\00:26:06.53
But we can't just, we
think we're shopping card
00:26:06.56\00:26:09.88
people, we get
spirituality today,
00:26:09.91\00:26:11.26
we get knowledge
here, religion, civics,
00:26:11.29\00:26:14.97
it's not working there anymore.
00:26:15.00\00:26:16.36
The information is
just streaming in on us.
00:26:16.39\00:26:19.80
Absolutely, you know
folks we've been talking
00:26:19.83\00:26:22.10
about some very, very unsettling
00:26:22.13\00:26:25.44
I would suggest,
things here today,
00:26:25.47\00:26:28.15
but do you know
as we, those of us
00:26:28.18\00:26:31.12
who are involved
in religious freedom
00:26:31.15\00:26:32.60
recognize the
extreme importance of the
00:26:32.63\00:26:37.07
personal walk with the
Lord and as we're involved
00:26:37.10\00:26:39.37
with a society
that is so secular.
00:26:39.40\00:26:42.00
It's extremely important that
00:26:42.03\00:26:44.53
we know on whom we
trust. Of recent days,
00:26:44.56\00:26:49.87
I've been reading
through a book that somebody
00:26:49.90\00:26:52.40
gave me a book the
dates to the 1970s,
00:26:52.43\00:26:55.32
its title is "Future
Shock" by Alvin Toffler.
00:26:55.35\00:26:59.13
That book really
changed many people's ideas
00:26:59.16\00:27:02.64
what living in a
modern technological society
00:27:02.67\00:27:05.50
might mean to them.
Since the book was written,
00:27:05.53\00:27:08.78
we've learned to
live with all pervasive
00:27:08.81\00:27:11.90
surveillance.
We've learned to live
00:27:11.93\00:27:14.71
with the
information age run a muck
00:27:14.74\00:27:16.79
and we've learned to
live with and perhaps
00:27:16.82\00:27:20.16
and not even see
the inherent dangerous
00:27:20.19\00:27:22.18
with the controls that
society is being granted.
00:27:22.21\00:27:24.92
But I think it's
very important that
00:27:24.95\00:27:27.54
we need to live to see
reality as it truly is.
00:27:27.57\00:27:30.73
The Prophet
Elijah surrounded on one
00:27:30.76\00:27:34.52
occasion by enemy
that wanted to destroy
00:27:34.55\00:27:36.88
him was confident.
His servant was frightened
00:27:36.91\00:27:40.97
until Elijah said,
Lord open his eyes,
00:27:41.00\00:27:43.80
when his eyes were
opened the servants saw
00:27:43.83\00:27:46.56
the chariots and the horsemen
00:27:46.59\00:27:48.49
and all the forces of
heaven around about them
00:27:48.52\00:27:51.24
on the mountains
ready to protect them.
00:27:51.27\00:27:53.44
We also have heavens protection
00:27:53.47\00:27:56.94
if we look for
it. If you look beyond
00:27:56.97\00:27:59.74
the surveillance
state that surrounds us.
00:27:59.77\00:28:02.66
This is Lincoln
Steed for Liberty Insider.
00:28:02.69\00:28:06.29