Welcome to the Liberty Insider,
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this is the program
that brings you discussion,
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news, views,
up-to- date information.
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And things that
you need to hear on the
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topic of religious
liberty. My name is
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Lincoln Steed Editor
of Liberty Magazine and
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my guest on the
program is Barry Bussey
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an Attorney, who
works for the Seventh-Day
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Adventist Church
world headquarters.
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You've had some
different assignments,
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but you'll be working with the
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US Government as a Liaison.
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Talk about the
US government, yes,
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lot of news coming
out of Washington in
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these days and not a
nonreligious liberty front
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people disagree with
all sorts of things, right.
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But of late, we've
had little bit of an
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issue with the
President and some of his
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chiefs spokes
people because they've been
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using the wrong terminology.
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Well, I tell you
this is very interesting,
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when you look back
buddy little over year
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and a half ago
when the President was
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before the
Muslim world in Cairo.
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And he gave a very wonderful;
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I remember that
speech yeah fantastic.
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I mean it was, it
will go down as one of
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the Obama
classics really. And he was
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using the terminology
freedom, sorry religious
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freedom and so
that is always been the
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language that's
been used. However,
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since really back in
November of last year,
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you had the Fort
Hood Massacre and
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in that the memorial service,
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he used the term
freedom of worship and
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so that, that was
the first time we heard
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freedom of worship
as supposed to freedom
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of, as supposed
to religious freedom,
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with his
administration, with his
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administration,
not an unknown term,
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no, no I mean okay
and so then that was
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followed then by
subsequent trip to China,
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Hillary Clinton.
She is against, yes,
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freedom worship,
yeah freedom of worship
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with respect to the
internet in fact we even,
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we even said at
the press release we're
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glad to see that
do you know they were
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supporting freedom of worship?
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And then some
folk's started to pointing
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out to us well have
you noticed the change
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in language here?
And so that was when
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we first notice
that and subsequently of
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course there has
been articles written,
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but yeah so, now
there is a difference and
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of course you say
well you know what
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is there a bit
of discussion about
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terminology and all
of that. I think we need
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to put it straight;
this is the world of
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difference between
the real meanings of
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these two
expressions. Absolutely,
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the area of
debate maybe what do they
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mean by, it could
be as simple as speech
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writers have just
settled down one or the
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other according to the moment.
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It maybe
impressional although that's not
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always, it's a bad way
to look at what political
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leaders say?
Especially, when you are talking
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about the President
of the United States,
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right I mean every
word is part somebody
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is going over in
that way. I read it in
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Editorial just
recently and some way pointed
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out that the Obama
Administration have
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actually used freedom
of worship less number
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of times then the
Bush Administration.
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So, you know numbers
can be a little confusing,
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but what seems to
happen as you pointed
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out there was a
clear point in time, right,
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when then after
that suddenly we hear
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these continued
references to freedom of
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worship, which are
not wrong in themselves.
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But if that's the
turn on how freedom of
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religion is
understood it could be more
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limiting it's really
have much more limited.
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Absolutely, well
because I mean you think
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about it worship
happens in the four walls of
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your Church or you
gather under a tree and
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you have worship
you know. But freedom
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of religion takes us
into much broader areas
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I mean the way in
which where we send our
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kids to schools
because of you know we've
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religious freedom of
religion makes the right
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which is speak; lot of
countries denied the right
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to witness into
convert, that's right,
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to change your
religion, yeah, to the
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dialogue between
religions and the dynamic
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which at times can
be quite harsh words
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exchange over religion.
Absolutely, so religious
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freedom is the
broad term, you practice
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your faith, you
practice your faith, a dynamic
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of faith. And it's
a, it has a cultural
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community concept
where as freedom of
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worship is simply
limiting and you know
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what's going on
within the four walls of your
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Church as an
example. So, when we,
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we see that change
then we naturally want to
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say well okay, well
what's going on here?
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So, some folks
have been trying to prod
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you know the
White House is trying to
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figure it okay what
exactly is going on and
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so far we are only just
getting nebulas answers,
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but what's
interesting they still haven't
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changed the
terminology so that causes us
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to say well okay.
Well, if it's just such
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this nebulas idea
then why don't you use
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the terminology of
religious freedom rather
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than just freedom of worship?
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That's true, in
order we've made a point
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of it and it's just
still in this program but
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not just Liberty
Magazine, that's right,
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I think Christianity
today even notice that
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I know a number
of other groups I've
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seen it. And we've
made some enquiries and
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we can't say who was spoken to,
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but people should
know and they ruins
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from don't worry
about it or it's happening
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to maybe it's
just imprecision yeah.
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But I think at this
point if it continues
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we need to be
worried because as we said
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in our earlier
program there are countries
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and religious view
points in some of those
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countries that
would not want any public
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dialogue, would
want to restrict you to
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basically the four
walls of your own Church.
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So, we need to insist
on real religious freedom,
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right. Thomas Farr
who is a Georgetown
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professor and he
has spoken to the house
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subcommittee and he
says that those of us
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in the business of
sniffing out rats, yeah,
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knowing, knowing
that this is a rhetorical
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shift to watch. Nina
Shea, a senior scholar at
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Hudson Institute
says "I'm very fearful
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that by building
bridges, we're actually stepping
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away from this
fundamental principle of
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religious freedom. It
is so critical she says
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for Western,
especially American,
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leaders to
articulate strong defense for
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religious freedom
and explain what that
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means and how it
undergirds our entire
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civilization." It's a
very important point I used
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that in my editorials,
yeah. How I started my
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editorial maybe a
lower the model here
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so every man can
see this. I quoted from
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"Alice in
Wonderland," I figure it,
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we go back to the
very premier level of
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literature and logic
and you know there is
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an interesting scene
in Alice in Wonderland
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where she meets
humpty dumpty and I
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will read it's very interesting.
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So, they discuss
she and humpty dumpty
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discuss birthday
presents and how there is
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only one day in the
mid year when you might
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get them. There is
glory for you says humpty,
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úI don't know what
you mean by "glory",'
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Alice said. Humpty
Dumpty smiled contemptuously.
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úOf course you don't
till I tell you. I meant"
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there's a nice
knock-down argument for you!"
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But "glory" doesn't
mean "a nice knock-down
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argument," 'Alice
objected. When I use a
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word,' Humpty Dumpty
said, in rather a scornful
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tone, úit means just
what I choose it to mean
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neither more nor
less. 'The question is,'
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said Alice, úwhether
you can make words mean
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so many different
things.' The question is,
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'said Humpty
Dumpty,' which is to be master
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that's all.'
Wow! The other words,
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we've need to be
careful of the misuse of
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language, that's
right, and I think what could
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easily be happening
here is words have been
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thrown out
religious freedom, freedom of
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worship that
sounds reasonable to the
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average person, yeah.
But the politician who
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where using them
mean something a little
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different, but and
they're determining the
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meaning. Well, as
quote in as, exactly it's
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another way to put
it, it's quote like I mean
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it's very clear that
the academia and certainly
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this president is
one who is you know,
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pleased toward
constitutional I mean he is,
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yeah I mean he is
one that if I mean we've
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great man as President,
but he certainly ranks
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right up there as
far as intelligence,
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as far as being the
member of the academia.
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I mean he is no guy
that it's try for with,
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I mean he knows the
stuff and when he is
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using this
language freedom of worship
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versus you know
freedom of religion.
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There is no question
that is feeding right into
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what the academia have
been writing in the law
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review articles for a
long time that we need to
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keep religion,
sequestered and we need to kind
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a set it off and we
don't have religion getting
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involved in the public
square and so forth and
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that is why it's so
significant. And what was
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said in a low level
way in some of the articles
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discussing this but I
don't think enough was
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made of it. Is
remembered this followed quick
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on the heels of the
growing debate that came
00:10:00.19\00:10:02.48
from Europe, but is
also in Canada and the US
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on the wearing of
burkas, right, and religious
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dress. Perfect
example, that's right,
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and I don't think
certainly Europe hasn't
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and the US hasn't
figured out how to deal
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with this yet.
Because on the face of it
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religious
freedom would allow that,
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yeah absolutely, but
there are some practical
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and certainly many
societal reasons that
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argue for restricting
in some way and you've
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got a great clash
of rods, yeah well I
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mean, and I think
this is preparing the way
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to make it more
easy to restrict not just
00:10:34.49\00:10:38.29
the burka, but
perhaps the you know I'm
00:10:38.32\00:10:42.51
trying to think what
hammer curl or whatever
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that with any number
of public dressed displays
00:10:44.74\00:10:47.93
of religion, not
because there is any antipathy
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toward religion. But
there are so many hot
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patterns in society
that they don't want to
00:10:54.01\00:10:56.24
stir things up,
right, so for our listeners
00:10:56.29\00:10:59.98
they have to
understand that freedom of
00:11:00.65\00:11:02.17
worship would say
okay you can wear your
00:11:02.26\00:11:04.27
burka inside the
mosque. But once you come
00:11:04.39\00:11:06.99
outside the mosque
you know, but there
00:11:07.06\00:11:09.63
were something
that was reiterating at
00:11:09.76\00:11:11.67
lunch time you and I
were talking to young
00:11:11.77\00:11:13.67
women from Russia
used to be the Soviet
00:11:13.70\00:11:16.02
Union in the
communist days out of the Soviet
00:11:16.17\00:11:19.40
Union the central
entity that brought in this
00:11:19.43\00:11:23.19
associated states,
but you know in the
00:11:23.22\00:11:25.12
Soviet Union freedom
of belief, freedom of
00:11:25.25\00:11:29.42
worship was granted.
It was the practice of
00:11:29.49\00:11:33.23
religion that was
restricted in many of
00:11:33.28\00:11:35.94
immoral ways
including imprisonment.
00:11:36.23\00:11:38.04
But they had no
problem with someone the
00:11:38.65\00:11:40.51
right of someone to
believe a certain religious
00:11:40.58\00:11:43.37
few point and after
the stallion there they
00:11:43.40\00:11:47.45
have relatively
easily allowed Church in
00:11:47.97\00:11:50.67
prescribed times,
the right to come there
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and worship, believe
with the head covered
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and say nothing
more, yes I, yeah,
00:11:54.45\00:11:56.34
yeah in some ways
this language leads us
00:11:56.79\00:11:59.89
back toward perhaps
not that practice yet
00:12:00.02\00:12:02.62
but that
mentality, that's right,
00:12:02.67\00:12:04.30
whether that's
satisfies a night man for
00:12:04.39\00:12:08.30
worship for
religion, as long as you allow
00:12:08.39\00:12:11.27
that very prescribed
expression of it beyond
00:12:11.32\00:12:15.25
that we don't
wanna know. It's been
00:12:15.28\00:12:18.18
something that lot of
political philosophers
00:12:18.84\00:12:20.87
who have been
talking about for a longtime,
00:12:20.90\00:12:22.45
people like
John Rawls and so on,
00:12:22.64\00:12:24.40
Robert Audience and
these gentlemen have
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been advocating
certainly since the 60's
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and so forth. The
idea is that if you're
00:12:31.34\00:12:34.18
going to be talking
about religion into public,
00:12:34.21\00:12:36.41
it's really bad
manners and so you don't
00:12:37.43\00:12:40.36
wanna be doing that
and so if you want to
00:12:40.44\00:12:42.57
be involved and
talking about the issues
00:12:42.72\00:12:44.89
you would need to
keep your religious
00:12:45.73\00:12:46.87
opinion into
yourself, and that is a chase
00:12:46.90\00:12:47.99
for the United
States because of any
00:12:48.05\00:12:50.20
Western country United
States has been a place,
00:12:50.46\00:12:52.35
where open
expression of religion has been
00:12:52.42\00:12:54.53
acceptable,
absolutely, but now this take
00:12:54.64\00:12:57.18
us so high it
maybe that we are heading
00:12:57.34\00:12:59.54
back to like Australia
where politics religion
00:12:59.61\00:13:02.72
don't wanna talk
causally to someone that
00:13:02.77\00:13:04.22
might take defense.
We will back after the
00:13:04.25\00:13:06.53
break to continue
this discussion and more
00:13:06.60\00:13:09.50
discussion of interesting
religious liberty issues.
00:13:09.64\00:13:11.76
One-hundred
years a long time to do
00:13:20.85\00:13:23.56
anything much less
publish a magazine,
00:13:23.66\00:13:25.96
but this year
Liberty the Seventh-Day
00:13:26.61\00:13:29.06
Adventist voice of
religious freedom celebrates
00:13:29.13\00:13:31.59
100 years of
doing what it does best
00:13:31.67\00:13:34.37
collecting,
analyzing, and reporting the
00:13:34.80\00:13:37.36
add and flow of
religious expression around
00:13:37.48\00:13:39.88
the world. Issue
after issues, Liberty has
00:13:39.91\00:13:43.18
taken on the tough
assignments tracking down
00:13:43.35\00:13:45.70
threats to
religious freedom and exposing
00:13:45.76\00:13:47.65
the work of a devil in
every corner of the globe.
00:13:47.85\00:13:50.37
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:51.06\00:13:53.35
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom
00:13:53.78\00:13:55.77
issues
sequestered within the Church
00:13:55.83\00:13:57.44
community itself
have been clearly and
00:13:57.51\00:13:59.71
honestly exposed.
Liberty exists for one
00:13:59.74\00:14:03.02
purpose to help God's
people maintain that all
00:14:03.31\00:14:06.47
the important
separation of Church and State
00:14:06.53\00:14:08.72
while recognizing the
dangers inherent in such
00:14:09.31\00:14:11.72
a struggle.
During the past century,
00:14:11.75\00:14:14.17
Liberty has experienced
challenges of its own,
00:14:14.33\00:14:16.58
but it remains on
the job. Thanks to the
00:14:17.12\00:14:19.61
inspired
leadership of a long line of
00:14:19.72\00:14:21.83
dedicated Adventist
Editors, three of whom
00:14:21.99\00:14:24.03
represent almost
half of the publications
00:14:24.06\00:14:25.89
existence and the
foresight of a little women
00:14:25.99\00:14:28.56
from New England.
100 years of struggle,
00:14:28.93\00:14:32.04
100 years of victories,
religious freedom isn't
00:14:32.50\00:14:35.71
just about political
machines and cultural
00:14:35.86\00:14:38.21
prejudices. It's about
people fighting for the
00:14:38.46\00:14:41.88
right to serve the God
they love as their hearts
00:14:41.95\00:14:45.01
and the Holy Spirit
dictate. Thanks to the
00:14:45.27\00:14:48.08
prayers and generous
support of Seventh-Day
00:14:48.26\00:14:50.38
Adventists everywhere.
Liberty will continue to
00:14:50.61\00:14:53.23
accomplish its
work of providing timely
00:14:53.26\00:14:55.42
information, spirit
filled inspiration, and heaven
00:14:55.47\00:14:58.27
sent encouragement
to all who long to live
00:14:58.37\00:15:01.37
and work in a
world bound together by
00:15:01.55\00:15:04.32
the God ordained
bonds of religious freedom.
00:15:04.35\00:15:08.02
Welcome back to Liberty Insider,
00:15:16.85\00:15:19.29
before the break
we were talking about
00:15:19.33\00:15:21.54
how important
terminology might be to
00:15:21.66\00:15:25.30
see a shift at
least in public expression
00:15:25.40\00:15:27.47
between the more
appropriate freedom of
00:15:28.06\00:15:30.92
religion terminology,
to freedom of worship
00:15:31.02\00:15:34.36
which is certainly
more limiting, right, right,
00:15:34.44\00:15:36.67
there is no
question I think you would
00:15:37.61\00:15:39.21
agree that there
are serious social
00:15:39.25\00:15:41.87
changes taking place
particularly in views
00:15:41.97\00:15:44.62
on religion.
Because religion is more,
00:15:44.80\00:15:46.67
more coming into
conflict and in the modern
00:15:46.78\00:15:49.40
society there is a
real need to get along.
00:15:49.52\00:15:52.96
And more, and more
religion is seen as
00:15:54.03\00:15:55.35
problematic so let's box it up,
00:15:55.57\00:15:57.31
control it, put it in
this right context but not
00:15:57.82\00:16:00.43
in the opens field.
And I think it's impart
00:16:00.57\00:16:03.43
because of the
pluralistic society that
00:16:03.63\00:16:05.96
America is becoming.
In fact most of Western
00:16:06.61\00:16:10.00
civilization and so
because there are so
00:16:10.55\00:16:13.56
many different
religions, so many potential
00:16:13.66\00:16:16.92
conflict points,
it's much easier to say
00:16:17.06\00:16:20.09
you know push it
off the table, right,
00:16:20.69\00:16:22.70
but something that's
very much on the table
00:16:23.14\00:16:25.33
now is one form of
religious expression
00:16:25.40\00:16:27.54
elicit in the last
few months. We saw huge
00:16:27.65\00:16:31.20
rally down
Washington, same day on the
00:16:31.28\00:16:34.37
anniversary of
Martin Luther Kings,
00:16:34.48\00:16:36.12
I have dream
speech, right, down on the
00:16:36.15\00:16:39.32
mall over, I never
heard the clear numbers
00:16:39.41\00:16:41.77
but I think at
least the few hundred
00:16:41.80\00:16:42.99
thousand, oh
absolutely, people gathered
00:16:43.06\00:16:45.29
to hear Glenn
Beck the new Messiah.
00:16:45.32\00:16:47.50
Well, I don't
think he'd agree with the
00:16:48.60\00:16:51.42
idea that he is the Messiah,
00:16:51.45\00:16:52.72
but I used that term
perhaps in the program
00:16:52.75\00:16:55.28
very much
inappropriately, but it's
00:16:55.32\00:16:56.56
been used that he
is a messianic figure
00:16:56.68\00:16:58.68
almost in the type of
American politics that
00:16:58.71\00:17:02.23
draws on
religious image. You know,
00:17:02.42\00:17:03.78
he is a very
interesting character;
00:17:03.82\00:17:05.30
here is the guy who
started out doing radio.
00:17:05.43\00:17:07.90
You know, for
years spend as a radio DJ
00:17:08.98\00:17:13.36
kind of on the edge very funny.
00:17:13.47\00:17:16.38
But, but his
sense of humor sometimes
00:17:18.16\00:17:21.05
got him into trouble.
I used to listen to him,
00:17:21.10\00:17:22.64
yeah but I mean
like his humor was such
00:17:23.03\00:17:25.91
things for
instance, he was making fun of
00:17:25.98\00:17:29.59
a women for an
example who lost a child,
00:17:29.69\00:17:33.00
so miscarriage and
so forth. And so it got
00:17:33.13\00:17:35.56
him into some serious
trouble and he would be
00:17:35.59\00:17:38.32
the first to say
well you know I done some,
00:17:38.35\00:17:40.69
some things wrong
alcohol, but he did recently
00:17:41.19\00:17:43.71
accusing the
president of, I think being
00:17:44.94\00:17:49.46
a Muslim or
something, yeah he also kick
00:17:49.49\00:17:51.64
as being a racist,
that's right I'm sorry he
00:17:51.79\00:17:54.36
has all of those,
above both of those,
00:17:54.39\00:17:56.22
but on the
righteous thing he backed off
00:17:56.29\00:17:58.78
sort of, yeah, in
front of a camera but he
00:17:59.11\00:18:02.49
is clearly saying
things that if a crowd appeal
00:18:02.55\00:18:05.30
then anyone things
about it a bit later
00:18:05.41\00:18:07.57
hang on what did
he say and so he is
00:18:07.64\00:18:09.92
constantly
apologize because that's why,
00:18:10.00\00:18:11.83
he lost his
program as I remember.
00:18:11.88\00:18:13.80
Well, you know and
of course right now
00:18:14.43\00:18:15.82
he is since
January 09 he started the
00:18:15.96\00:18:20.00
Fox program, Fox TV
and as a result he is
00:18:20.12\00:18:24.76
become extremely
been extremely popular
00:18:24.89\00:18:28.42
you know his
famous things to have a
00:18:29.37\00:18:32.65
black board
educating people about the
00:18:32.78\00:18:35.43
various issues,
but what was happened
00:18:35.49\00:18:37.54
though is that as
life is going on for him,
00:18:37.57\00:18:41.21
he is converted to Mormonism.
00:18:41.33\00:18:42.72
He's found God,
which he is allowed to do,
00:18:43.24\00:18:45.37
yeah absolutely,
absolutely and so what's
00:18:45.45\00:18:49.34
happening now. He is
restoring honor rally
00:18:49.37\00:18:54.92
which you made
reference to on the
00:18:55.04\00:18:56.55
anniversary of
Martin Luther Kings,
00:18:56.58\00:18:59.51
I have a dream
speech, I mean his speech
00:19:00.18\00:19:04.30
if you were to listen
to his speech you know
00:19:04.37\00:19:06.93
listen to that on
Youtube or at his website.
00:19:07.10\00:19:09.64
I mean you cannot
help but be drawn into
00:19:10.60\00:19:14.23
the patriotic God in
country; he is considering
00:19:14.37\00:19:15.89
a little hot better,
oh! no question about it.
00:19:16.00\00:19:18.10
But he is bit of in
enigma for me in some
00:19:18.67\00:19:22.49
respect, I've ask
some of you know my
00:19:22.60\00:19:26.28
friends, you know
African-American friends
00:19:26.39\00:19:29.39
and they look at you
know very hilarious to
00:19:29.50\00:19:33.37
what's happening
here and I'm not sure,
00:19:33.40\00:19:36.97
I understand
exactly the dynamics because
00:19:37.09\00:19:41.18
obviously if you were
to look at his rallies by
00:19:41.29\00:19:46.19
far they are tend
to be the what would
00:19:46.67\00:19:51.95
you say the
American middle class,
00:19:51.98\00:19:57.28
yeah well not so
much vast even though
00:19:57.75\00:20:01.12
because there is lot
of Catholics and so forth,
00:20:01.22\00:20:04.05
it's true, right
middle class and so right
00:20:04.08\00:20:06.54
at middle class and
so why is it not having
00:20:06.57\00:20:09.37
them much broader
appeal and I guess this
00:20:09.40\00:20:11.65
what I'm trying
to understand and I,
00:20:11.69\00:20:13.60
well he is
stepping into the Christian
00:20:13.63\00:20:16.97
American exceptionalism,
right, he is very
00:20:17.02\00:20:23.97
quickly identified
himself with David Burton,
00:20:24.01\00:20:26.82
who on this
program we've mentioned
00:20:27.51\00:20:29.12
him over the years
a little. But he is,
00:20:29.15\00:20:31.64
history enough of
thoughts, beloved of
00:20:32.17\00:20:35.42
Jerry Falwell and
Pat Robinson and others
00:20:35.54\00:20:38.41
because he uses
the facts of history to
00:20:38.44\00:20:42.39
prove what I
think is not factual,
00:20:42.61\00:20:44.50
the promises of the
US constitution and I
00:20:45.53\00:20:49.55
think now the
America's founding fathers
00:20:49.80\00:20:51.23
were pretty
much religious icons,
00:20:51.32\00:20:56.19
who consciously
established the state
00:20:56.80\00:20:58.95
to protect and
advance Christianity and
00:20:59.02\00:21:01.63
that's just not
right. But once they have
00:21:01.69\00:21:04.56
that as a fact
then where we are now
00:21:04.67\00:21:08.54
with the Mosque
situation which we refer
00:21:09.32\00:21:12.11
to another
program, where we have
00:21:12.26\00:21:14.40
Hollywood you know
pushing immorality and
00:21:14.51\00:21:16.31
new faces. All of
this is not just a sign of
00:21:16.36\00:21:19.41
social
dislocation, this is a sign that
00:21:19.62\00:21:21.49
Christian America
has lost its way and the
00:21:21.65\00:21:24.17
glory needs to be
recovered by recovering
00:21:24.21\00:21:28.12
states sponsorship
of religion. You know,
00:21:28.57\00:21:30.57
our economic skills
are all because with
00:21:30.61\00:21:33.90
allowed activist
judges to shift us away
00:21:34.91\00:21:37.98
from that in the
immorality of the constitution
00:21:38.04\00:21:40.53
it's a very heady
mix at our American
00:21:40.68\00:21:43.44
exceptionalism is
predicated on a falsehood
00:21:43.49\00:21:45.94
as President Bush
once said that this country
00:21:47.08\00:21:49.92
is a favorite
nation because we are God's
00:21:51.37\00:21:54.12
favorite people. But, you know,
00:21:54.30\00:21:56.41
it's a very interesting
if you listen to back
00:21:56.55\00:21:58.28
speech, he talks
about the importance of the,
00:21:58.42\00:22:01.79
of personal
responsibility. He talks about
00:22:02.29\00:22:05.38
the idea of "let's
not focus on the scars of
00:22:05.48\00:22:09.64
America", because
America does have some
00:22:09.69\00:22:11.79
serious scars. You
know, there was obviously,
00:22:11.88\00:22:14.59
slavery, slavery is
you know, so let's not
00:22:15.81\00:22:18.31
focus on that. But
let's look at the future
00:22:18.37\00:22:20.26
of America, let's
go forward and like I
00:22:20.29\00:22:25.23
say as you listen to
that speech is very albeit,
00:22:25.26\00:22:28.30
it's very moving and
he calls upon personal
00:22:28.40\00:22:32.08
responsibility and
calling upon the importance
00:22:32.19\00:22:35.87
of spending time
with the children.
00:22:35.90\00:22:38.96
Raising the children,
so that they understand
00:22:39.77\00:22:42.02
the American ideal
and passing it all.
00:22:42.57\00:22:46.96
It's a good approach by enlarge,
00:22:47.06\00:22:49.10
my father who is
now dead spend a lot of
00:22:49.51\00:22:53.74
time investigating
the biblical principle of
00:22:53.77\00:22:59.46
purity and
holiness and then all the
00:22:59.56\00:23:01.59
counterfeit
principles and he came to the
00:23:01.80\00:23:04.17
conclusion that in
the Bible God's principle
00:23:04.29\00:23:07.89
is separation
between good and evil.
00:23:07.92\00:23:09.78
You know, there is
good and there is evil,
00:23:11.93\00:23:13.20
the worlds way is to
mix things and if you really
00:23:14.37\00:23:18.58
think about it the
greatest deceptions and
00:23:18.68\00:23:21.14
not something
that's absolutely false.
00:23:21.25\00:23:24.08
The greatest
deception is the way you have
00:23:24.77\00:23:26.39
something that's
mostly good and then there
00:23:26.52\00:23:28.84
is like the poison
pill. And I hope I'm making
00:23:28.87\00:23:32.35
the point here, the
most people they vote this
00:23:32.47\00:23:36.28
way they listen to a
politician and he will say
00:23:36.31\00:23:38.80
mostly good stuff and
that carries them along.
00:23:38.83\00:23:41.02
They might not look
at what is his ultimate
00:23:41.31\00:23:43.56
agenda or what is
the most egregious
00:23:43.71\00:23:46.62
statement he has
made as much of signal
00:23:46.76\00:23:48.10
mode. They take it
on the whole and on the
00:23:48.23\00:23:50.95
whole what he is
saying is wonderful,
00:23:51.01\00:23:53.23
but what it stands
for is the fellowships,
00:23:53.64\00:23:56.31
I say it's the
idea that America as the
00:23:56.34\00:24:00.14
structural society
is designed to advance
00:24:00.34\00:24:08.52
and protect Christianity
and that's just counter
00:24:08.68\00:24:12.01
initiative I think to
religious freedom. I don't
00:24:12.21\00:24:16.28
know where this
will go per se, but to me
00:24:16.34\00:24:19.34
and I'm often
reaching for this example it
00:24:19.60\00:24:22.18
reminds me in a
dangerous sort of a way
00:24:22.34\00:24:26.03
of the appeal of
the, that was called brown
00:24:26.34\00:24:29.54
shirts. Yeah, but,
there is other examples but
00:24:29.63\00:24:34.15
this is the most
egregious one and I could
00:24:34.21\00:24:36.69
go to liberation
movements in Latin America
00:24:36.72\00:24:39.27
which is less
problematic to most people.
00:24:39.48\00:24:41.21
But in Germany
between the walls they had
00:24:41.69\00:24:45.52
moral melt down,
they had economic malice,
00:24:45.67\00:24:48.99
in fact in
hyperinflation and most people
00:24:49.69\00:24:52.93
hungered not so much
for a job in all rest
00:24:53.20\00:24:56.54
those with the
immediate things that drove him
00:24:56.71\00:24:58.12
crazy, but they
hungered for a sense of
00:24:58.22\00:25:00.13
place of
spiritual normalcy and when
00:25:00.26\00:25:04.32
the brown shirts came
along there appeal was
00:25:04.35\00:25:07.33
from morality, it
was for what you were
00:25:07.45\00:25:11.34
saying self
efficiency and so on and they
00:25:11.37\00:25:13.96
didn't realize that
there was a philosophy
00:25:14.00\00:25:16.11
that lay behind it and
what lies behind Beck's
00:25:16.17\00:25:18.33
view, if you will
investigate it's a
00:25:18.36\00:25:21.31
reiteration, but in a
very attractive concept of
00:25:21.61\00:25:24.87
what has been
known, but you never hear
00:25:28.13\00:25:29.47
it mention
dominionism, the dominionist
00:25:29.50\00:25:32.30
Christian viewpoint
and the dominionist view
00:25:32.36\00:25:35.00
point they've link
nicely with the self
00:25:35.15\00:25:37.55
sufficiency of
American pioneers. You know,
00:25:37.58\00:25:41.07
the ragged
outdoorsman, but basically
00:25:41.10\00:25:43.24
what it means is you want to be
00:25:43.27\00:25:45.03
protected in your
property and your rights
00:25:45.10\00:25:47.98
to run business.
As you do that don't
00:25:48.06\00:25:51.13
constrain me because
I'm a rugged individualist,
00:25:51.25\00:25:54.01
I should be allowed
to capitalize on out of
00:25:54.54\00:25:57.90
control business
practices; I should be able
00:25:57.97\00:26:01.01
to become filthy
rich, I shouldn't have to
00:26:01.04\00:26:03.48
be made to worry about the poor,
00:26:03.55\00:26:05.39
I shouldn't have to
support social wealth
00:26:05.85\00:26:08.51
fare programs.
Now he speaks greatly
00:26:08.58\00:26:10.54
against social, the
social Gospel, yeah I know
00:26:10.70\00:26:12.68
he speaks, because
that derives directly
00:26:12.82\00:26:15.25
from the, it's a
dominionist view point.
00:26:15.43\00:26:20.64
Good, good point,
you know as we look at
00:26:21.12\00:26:23.59
this whole issue of
freedom of religion,
00:26:23.79\00:26:26.50
freedom of worship,
and we see this popular
00:26:27.45\00:26:30.17
movements that
come up we have to ask
00:26:30.23\00:26:32.52
ourselves and be
mindful of, what are the
00:26:32.55\00:26:36.42
underlying assumptions? What is
00:26:36.45\00:26:39.48
the agenda that's behind them?
00:26:39.66\00:26:41.55
A few years ago
there was a song by
00:26:44.64\00:26:46.53
Kris Kristofferson on
freedom, it's a song that
00:26:46.66\00:26:51.92
probably not too
many viewers would
00:26:52.07\00:26:53.60
remember, it was
forgettable on many
00:26:53.63\00:26:55.50
levels, but it's says
freedom is just another
00:26:55.71\00:26:58.56
word for having
nothing else to do.
00:26:58.74\00:27:00.55
You know, religious
freedom is the word but
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is far more than a
word. People have given
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their lives to
maintain or to get religious
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liberty when
they haven't had it.
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And so today in our
political discourse when
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the word
religious freedom comes up
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we need to cherish it
for what it stands for
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because it has a
wealth of meaning beyond
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just being a religious person,
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it's doing, it's
living, it's functioning.
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Freedom of worship is
quite specific and fits
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very neatly
within religious freedom.
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We need to watch
our words, words do
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make a difference.
There are not something
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that just sits in a
dictionary, there are
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expressions of
concepts that we put
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into action
everyday as just as everyday
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people are putting
their lives on the line
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for religious
freedom. For Liberty
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Insider, this is Lincoln Steed.
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