Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program that
brings you up to date news,
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use information and
discussion on religious
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liberty issues. My
name is Lincoln Steed,
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editor of Liberty
Magazine and on the program
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is Melissa Reid associate
editor for Liberty Magazine.
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Welcome to Liberty
Insider. Thank you,
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its pleasure to be here.
Let's talk about something
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that's really occupied a
lot of the media and perhaps
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most every American at
least for some weeks now.
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Faisal Shahzad. Yes.
And I'm to paraphrase
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or to borrow from
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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the name that shall live in
for me. Yes. Mostly for doing
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nothing but trying
to do a lot. Right.
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He set a bomb in New York
City, the comedy of errors,
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old truck, left his keys
and you know goes on and on,
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we know all the details
of that. We had had a lucky
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there are many terrorists
in the world not all of them
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Islamic terrorist, but
this is point of threat
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to the western and
particularly United States.
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Something may happen one day.
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What I want to talk
about is, in the after math
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of this send to Joseph
Lieberman, usually fairly
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even keel fellow in
my view has come up with
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a proposal that he has
actually formed into a law,
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right or at
least legal proposal,
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proposal legislation
right. That he has brought in,
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and it's in
committee at the moment.
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And believe it or don't,
his legal proposal is that
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anybody
associated with terrorism.
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I think he is gonna to
take it fair enough to be just
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a member of a
terrorist organization or some
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sort of supporter;
we'll have his citizenship
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taken away. Wow. And
what really bothers me;
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it's not just the law
but the discussion that went
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with it. It's a continuation
of, what I think has been
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a weakness from the
very beginning since nine
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eleven is that if
someone is accused to being
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a terrorist then there
is an automatic assumption
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that they are.
Right. So, I don't know how
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Lieberman law
would work any how,
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you could strip them
of citizenship and then
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theoretically they
could be found innocent.
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Right. Maybe they
have a special re-another
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ceremony that invite
you back. Yes, yes, yes.
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That's been done with
erring churches, I know,
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in Australia they dismiss
them as one of the fellowship
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in churches then
invite them back later.
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Back them with more
honors. This is a real thread
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to not just civil liberty.
I believe it as implication
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for religious freedom.
Yeah I read an interesting
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article in the Sacramento
Bee on this particular
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on this proposed law
that Terrorist Expatriation
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Act is what it's being called,
but it says that you know
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that it would permit
Americans to be expatriate
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if they are engaging
in something as vague
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as providing support
or resources to a foreign
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terrorist organization.
And that it is found terrorist
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organization under
law, any organization
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so designated by the
U.S. Secretary of States.
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So very vaguest you
know, and then any unlawful
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material support or
resources, it could be
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anything as benign as
publishing information
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considering. Oh
yes. You know considered
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to be expert advice. So
I think it's just vagueness
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and overarching you
know. Well history is very
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plain on these
things, Americans seem to be
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relatively naive this
time around, but these are
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classically the types of
laws that repressive regimes
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put into dump down
opposition usually political
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opposition at the view
point. Right. And it's not
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always real clear and
it will not be here again
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which is the terrorist
organization. We've seen
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a very clear change
since nine eleven where
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once many citizens
of United States happily
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sent money to northern
island to fight the British
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occupiers you know I've
heard, Government leaders
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say that this was
great citizen here we are
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empowering that group.
You know things withered
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away instantly
because the Irish Republican
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army didn't want to be
label as continually labeled
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as terrorist, the
peace was settled there.
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But there are other
things that are going on in the
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world that it may not
be obvious to people hear
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of extraction of that
regional country may not
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be obvious that U.S.
stands toward it. Right.
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And in a flesh they
can suddenly be declared an
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enemy of the
state deprived them of
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citizenship and
what's not said in this law,
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but we know already
deprive of their liberty and
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definitely without
any trials, so you just go
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into our black hole.
Yeah. We know too, that since
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terrorism has this brand
of terrorism has a distinct
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religious tinge. It can
easily be invoked against
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an unpopular religious
view point. Right, right.
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I'm surprised at the
support that I've seen.
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Well it's a native
that response. Yeah, yeah.
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It's the sort of thing
that led to rounding up the
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Japanese after Pearl
Harbour. Right. It's not,
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I mean it's explainable
to a point emotionally.
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Right. But rationally it
does not make much sense.
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Right. I've seen it
reflex uninformed reflex.
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I've seen compared
to the McCarthy hearings
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and the reaction the
communism that of just you
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know pointing
the finger and also.
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Same as McCarthy. Yeah
and you know sail in which
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trials and things like
that. Just you know where
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things can get out of
control and you know maybe
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well intentioned, but
I've been surprised you know
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I was surprised too that
Secretary of State Clinton
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noted that the State
Department already has
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authority to resend
the citizenship of people,
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but she said, that declare
religion to foreign state,
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but she said that the
administration would take
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a hard look at
extending those powers to cover
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these terrorism suspects,
so that was surprising to me.
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Now its always been,
this always have been fuzzy
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edge to the law in this
type of thing not terrorism,
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but you know where to
support for your country
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and support for
foreign entity begin.
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During the war that
I remember but you were
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just enough younger
than me not to remember
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the Vietnam war.
You know, Jane Fonda
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was thinking man's
field that's for today.
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I don't
remember, but Jane Fonda,
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I think did an
improper thing, she went to
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Hana Hou and pledge
support and condemn what
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the U.S. was doing.
Right. Now it was technically
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illegal. Right. And
she could well have gotten
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prison time at that
time. She was very lucky
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she wasn't dealt with
legally, and popular opinion
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dealt with her. Right sure.
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But that's not good, I
really can't defend her,
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but she was in an
era where there was
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consequence that was not clear.
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This thing it's like
destruction you are out
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equivalent, if you
come under at woom the
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world ends for you.
And it also gives an easy
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opportunity for
particular political power
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might be in
ascendancy at that time to deal
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very strategically with
you and I think it's very
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unfortunate, very unfortunate.
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Yeah. I do too. And
I'm surprise that we didn't
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push this. I would hope
before the Lord actually
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gets through it he
has some second thoughts.
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Well it's surprising
you know its co-sponsor by
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Scott Brown who just
one won the Senate seat
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of Ted Kennedy
from Massachusetts is
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Scott Brown. I didn't
know that directly but
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yeah there is some
grand standing here.
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Yeah, yeah, but then
there is an identical bill
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in the house right
now sponsored by two
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representatives I
think they are from Kentucky,
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but I'm not for sure
I'm not. So, I'm surprised
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to see so much support
I guess, we will see how
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it goes down, and
you know how it continues
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maybe as you said
Lieberman is obviously
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the most influential
or the most recognized
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individuals supporting
it. So, maybe he will realize
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that it wasn't that
reactionary and step off,
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I certainly would hope
so. To be it links at least
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in the mentality
behind it with a recent change
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to the law for
Arizona, where they are dealing
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with of the tide of
illegal is Sheriff Joe from our
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memories last night. I
think he is comfortable
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with just being
known as Sheriff Joe.
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Yeah, and he is well
known in the area because
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he is hard on these
illegal, they are rounding
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them up on the
faintest pretext directing
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ten cities where
they live in 120 degree
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temperature out.
Right. Arizona and the sun,
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and people are just
clapping along on his
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mistreatment
people. Yes they were there
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illegally, but they
are not subhumans, Right.
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And now with this new
law the police will see
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what they do, but
they can't stop people
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on the pretext and check
their papers to see if they
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are illegal are not if
illegal then you know they
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get their sheriff
treatment, sort of checking.
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You could argue the
tees and fros these laws
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clearly there is a
social attitude that's
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empowering them, but
I see them all softening
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up western nation
that had a reasonable
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tradition of the rule
of law to act prejudicially
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towards certain people
and not just prejudicially
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if there is trip wire,
either lack of papers or paper
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trail that connects
you in some peripheral way
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with a Government
enemy then the world ends
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for you, Right.
And in other program,
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And again very vagous
to what could be an enemy
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of the Government.
Right, and in another
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program, that you and
I recorded few weeks ago,
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we invoke Revelation
13. Yes. And it says there
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that unless people go
along with this compulsion
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to obey a religious
edict, they will be able to buy
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or sell. So I think we
are rapidly moving toward
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a time, when on
certain litmus test issues
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you basically are out of
the running on everything,
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you lose your job,
you lose your credibility
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in the community,
you lose your freedom,
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no rights, no redress,
gone, Yeah. And it's true
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some one could accuse
me of seeing it through
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the prism of prophecy
perhaps, but I think just
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look at on the civil
liberty spectrum, these are
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horrible developments. Yeah, now
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I think it's very
concerning, One of the articles
00:10:23.96\00:10:28.70
that I read on the
topic was talking about
00:10:28.73\00:10:32.06
the 1958 Supreme
Court decision which had to
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do with an U.S. army
private, he was court
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martial for war time
desertion and they had
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asked the U.S. headquarters had
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ask that his
citizenship be forfeited,
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but the majority of in
the ruling, the majority
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of the Supreme Court
disagreed and they said
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and I like this quote
''Citizenship is not a license
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that expires upon this
behavior and there is not
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a weapon that the
Government may use to
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expresses his displeasure
out of citizens conduct.
00:11:00.73\00:11:03.67
Other forms of
punishment are available to deal
00:11:03.70\00:11:06.72
with their elections of
duty''. So, I think that they
00:11:06.75\00:11:09.20
very accurate on
that because in some ways
00:11:09.23\00:11:12.19
what's been going on
in our lifetimes where
00:11:12.22\00:11:15.18
someone could migrate
legal, immigrate legally
00:11:15.21\00:11:18.90
from one country and
then take on US citizenship
00:11:18.93\00:11:20.98
doesn't really have a
very ancient antecedent.
00:11:21.01\00:11:23.88
Citizenship was what
you inherently had by
00:11:23.91\00:11:27.05
being born and big
part of that society and it
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can't be removed.
Right. We come to think of it
00:11:29.84\00:11:32.66
as papers, but it's
really state of being,
00:11:32.69\00:11:34.88
and the point is as
the citizens or resident
00:11:36.61\00:11:39.95
I know I came to the
US accept as an immigrant,
00:11:39.98\00:11:44.59
but you are subject
to the same laws. Right.
00:11:44.62\00:11:46.97
And you are seen as
the potential citizen.
00:11:47.00\00:11:48.54
You are subject to
those laws, the laws should
00:11:48.57\00:11:51.08
be the penalty not as
they said take or give
00:11:51.11\00:11:54.35
or take the paper.
Right. And what happens
00:11:54.38\00:11:57.98
if an Americans citizen
would lose this their citizen
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what do they become? If
there another group from
00:12:01.18\00:12:05.50
somewhere else
theoretically that could be
00:12:05.53\00:12:08.00
reinstated, but in
reality and taking on your
00:12:08.03\00:12:10.64
citizenship,
someone, forfeits that. Right,
00:12:10.67\00:12:14.50
and here I'm. Their
country knows, they've turned
00:12:14.53\00:12:17.17
in their passport.
Right. But someone is born
00:12:17.20\00:12:20.25
here they haven't a
lot of that they become
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stateless
person. Stateless person.
00:12:21.69\00:12:23.29
And that's a
huge conundrum in the
00:12:23.32\00:12:26.55
modern world.
The refugees who are
00:12:26.58\00:12:28.78
acknowledged by any
country. And someone
00:12:28.81\00:12:30.94
with no rights, no
you know that's right.
00:12:30.97\00:12:33.62
No records for any
sort of action. And I think
00:12:33.65\00:12:36.57
what implicit in
Lieberman's call for this new
00:12:36.60\00:12:41.82
legislation is the idea
that you only have these
00:12:41.85\00:12:44.56
rights because you
are a citizen. Yeah.
00:12:44.59\00:12:46.82
And that is antithetical
to the whole declaration
00:12:46.85\00:12:50.02
of independence. Says,
in early in the book. Right.
00:12:50.05\00:12:52.89
By virtue of the
created not by and they are
00:12:52.92\00:12:55.76
recognized by this
state, they are not given
00:12:55.79\00:12:57.91
by the state. Right.
And certainly the larger
00:12:57.94\00:12:59.96
rods and on
previous programs I've spoken
00:12:59.99\00:13:03.14
about Magna Carta the
Magna Carta runny made
00:13:03.17\00:13:06.72
in England where,
where they protection against
00:13:06.75\00:13:09.76
divotry western
and prison them and was
00:13:09.79\00:13:12.10
bargained from the king.
We've been inherit of that,
00:13:12.13\00:13:15.57
that's not a U.S. invention
and so far in our stressful
00:13:15.60\00:13:21.14
times for sovereign
government to take away
00:13:21.17\00:13:23.96
what basically is now
recognized this universal
00:13:23.99\00:13:26.54
right by any country
with, with outdoors it's
00:13:26.57\00:13:29.61
membership in the
U.S., yeah. I just it's such
00:13:29.64\00:13:32.79
retrogrades step
that I'm surprised that in
00:13:32.82\00:13:34.87
intelligent person
like a settle and leave them
00:13:34.90\00:13:37.44
and what would
bring this forward, right.
00:13:37.47\00:13:38.86
He eight hasn't
thought of through or probably
00:13:38.89\00:13:41.51
were it much was he
is thinking and this will
00:13:41.54\00:13:43.98
carry favor with the
nativist sentiments of certain
00:13:44.01\00:13:47.74
word in U.S. sure,
sure. Not It's seems like an
00:13:47.77\00:13:50.13
extreme reaction to
me and it's seems like we
00:13:50.16\00:13:52.47
have a laws in place to
be able to you know deal
00:13:52.50\00:13:55.61
like with this
situation and time square that
00:13:55.64\00:13:57.53
you know bombing
situation they were attempted
00:13:57.56\00:14:02.65
bomb situation
there I'm not sure why his
00:14:02.68\00:14:05.67
citizenship would
need to be revoked you know
00:14:05.70\00:14:08.39
what, what the
necessary why would be
00:14:08.42\00:14:13.08
necessary to
revoked is your citizenship.
00:14:13.11\00:14:15.11
We will be back
after the break with more
00:14:16.08\00:14:18.01
discussion on this
certainly a lot of ramifications
00:14:18.04\00:14:21.16
on this in and
other similar issues.
00:14:21.19\00:14:23.00
100 years a long to do
anything much less publish
00:14:31.93\00:14:36.39
magazine, but
this year liberty the
00:14:36.42\00:14:39.64
seventh-day Adventist
voice of religious freedom
00:14:39.67\00:14:41.97
celebrated 100 years of
doing what it does best.
00:14:42.00\00:14:45.44
Collecting, analyzing
and reporting the aben
00:14:45.47\00:14:48.95
flow of religious
expression of around the world.
00:14:48.98\00:14:51.44
Issue after issue
liberty has taken on the tough
00:14:51.47\00:14:55.34
assignments tracking
down threads to religious
00:14:55.37\00:14:57.75
freedom and exposing
the work of the Devil
00:14:57.78\00:14:59.91
in every corner of
the globe. Governmental
00:14:59.94\00:15:02.31
interference person
attacks corporative assaults,
00:15:02.34\00:15:05.52
even religious
freedom issues requested with
00:15:05.55\00:15:07.99
them the church
communit itself have been
00:15:08.02\00:15:10.01
clearly and honestly
exposed. Liberty exist for
00:15:10.04\00:15:13.69
one purpose, to help
God's people maintain that
00:15:13.72\00:15:17.09
all the importance
separation of church in state.
00:15:17.12\00:15:19.85
Well recognizing
the dangerous inherent
00:15:20.40\00:15:22.38
and such a struggle.
During the past century,
00:15:22.41\00:15:25.14
liberty has experienced
challenges of it's own,
00:15:25.17\00:15:27.96
but it remains on the
job. Thanks to he inspired
00:15:27.99\00:15:31.26
leadership of our long
light of dedicated Adventist
00:15:31.29\00:15:33.89
Senators three of
them represtn almost half
00:15:33.92\00:15:36.22
of the
publications existence and the
00:15:36.25\00:15:38.29
before side of our
little woman from New England.
00:15:38.32\00:15:40.80
100 years of struggle,
100 years of victories.
00:15:40.83\00:15:45.21
Religious freedom isn't
just about political machines
00:15:45.24\00:15:48.51
and cultural
prejudices. It's about people
00:15:48.54\00:15:51.75
fighting for the right
to serve that God they love
00:15:51.78\00:15:55.10
as their hearts and
the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:15:55.13\00:15:58.20
Thank to the prayers
and general support of
00:15:58.23\00:16:00.87
seventh-day
Adventist everywhere.
00:16:00.90\00:16:02.88
Liberty will continue
to accomplish it's work of
00:16:02.91\00:16:05.56
providing timely information
spirits filled inspiration
00:16:05.59\00:16:08.46
and heavens in
encouragement to all
00:16:08.97\00:16:11.12
who long to live and work
in the world bound together
00:16:11.15\00:16:15.35
by that God or Dane
Bonds of religious freedom.
00:16:15.38\00:16:19.05
Welcome back to liberty
insider before the break
00:16:28.08\00:16:30.46
we were talking with
some weamons at least
00:16:30.49\00:16:33.32
of why we have about a
profiles of you legislation
00:16:33.35\00:16:37.49
from Centered
Lieberman that would deprive
00:16:37.52\00:16:39.09
people with the fairest
terrorist top connections
00:16:39.12\00:16:42.47
of this citizenship.
Let's take this a little bit
00:16:42.50\00:16:45.59
further of feel I
know people have watching
00:16:45.62\00:16:47.19
this program certainly is
fire of field is a strategy
00:16:47.22\00:16:50.38
or in Europe of gotten
let us from that faraway.
00:16:50.41\00:16:53.37
In Europe they are
struggling through religious
00:16:53.40\00:16:57.37
identity issues
that might seen and might
00:16:57.40\00:17:00.58
even truly be a
religious liberty issue,
00:17:00.61\00:17:02.42
but this is a larger
issues would play to.
00:17:02.45\00:17:04.79
What about in there is
it Belgium, yes in Brussels
00:17:04.82\00:17:08.88
yeah they are just
I've recently approved
00:17:08.91\00:17:12.37
a band or well I
think I like a lower house
00:17:12.40\00:17:14.38
and I approved a band on wearing
00:17:14.41\00:17:17.17
burkas and other
Islamic garved that covers
00:17:17.20\00:17:19.59
the woman's face of
so it's it needs to be
00:17:19.62\00:17:21.94
approved by the
upper house of parliament
00:17:21.97\00:17:23.39
but I think they are
expecting that to happens
00:17:23.42\00:17:25.54
since the lower
court or house moved
00:17:25.57\00:17:27.25
in the way that it
did. No what do you think
00:17:27.28\00:17:30.23
of battle. Let's
discuss this a little bit.
00:17:30.26\00:17:31.85
Well this is in my
memory this is about the
00:17:31.88\00:17:34.72
third of serious of
events that was the French
00:17:34.75\00:17:38.69
has scarf issue that
which we cover and it
00:17:38.72\00:17:40.55
and then in
Switzerland and right and France
00:17:40.58\00:17:43.94
so then we covered
in liberty and then that
00:17:43.97\00:17:45.93
was the menu
rates in Switzerland
00:17:45.96\00:17:48.79
and so I hate this is
kind of about the third
00:17:48.82\00:17:50.62
and western
Europe that I've seen,
00:17:50.65\00:17:54.87
I've seen different
analysis aren't been
00:17:54.90\00:17:56.45
17.56σσσ I better
analysis by Dr. John Groats
00:17:56.48\00:18:01.13
one of our
colleagues who is Swiss born and
00:18:01.16\00:18:04.61
Swiss citizen still and I
think it looks for and he has
00:18:04.64\00:18:08.12
been on the
program so that he yea,
00:18:08.15\00:18:09.68
he has been here before
and he was it was talking
00:18:09.71\00:18:12.13
specifically about
the menu rates issues
00:18:12.16\00:18:16.35
and I thought it was
interesting perspective
00:18:16.38\00:18:17.51
on him and he was
saying that, it was in western
00:18:17.54\00:18:23.78
it's now so very
secular I mean you go
00:18:23.81\00:18:26.62
it's started with it
has such a religious history
00:18:26.65\00:18:29.23
not a history of
religious freedom as we know,
00:18:29.26\00:18:32.24
but it has such a
Christian history.
00:18:32.80\00:18:34.95
And now you got to
visit the churches and things
00:18:35.87\00:18:39.16
and everything's to
empty and you know not very
00:18:39.19\00:18:41.66
well used and so to
see the visual image
00:18:41.69\00:18:45.17
"menu rates" living
religion being revived in such a
00:18:45.20\00:18:49.43
sacred community is
frightening and that were
00:18:49.46\00:18:52.18
unsettling for the
Swiss citizenship that's one
00:18:52.21\00:18:55.05
of the concerns. I
challenge the fact that European
00:18:55.08\00:18:57.65
secular. It's socially secular
but it is not religiously
00:18:57.68\00:19:01.54
neutral. It's carry with
all of the religious identity
00:19:01.57\00:19:05.63
national religious identities
that it had at the middle
00:19:05.66\00:19:09.04
I just okay and particularly
00:19:09.07\00:19:11.23
remickcantholism
but to the last degree
00:19:11.26\00:19:13.79
the other major
protestant religious they
00:19:13.82\00:19:15.73
people are born into
that identity and they
00:19:15.76\00:19:18.23
have not given to
adopt they are not living it.
00:19:18.26\00:19:19.88
They are certainly
not abroad by spirituality
00:19:19.91\00:19:23.20
in Europe but I think
it's misreading it to see
00:19:23.23\00:19:25.68
that it's an absolutely
secular religiously neutral
00:19:25.71\00:19:30.41
plane field in fact
this is this current
00:19:30.44\00:19:33.94
challenges are
revealing it to be anything but
00:19:33.97\00:19:36.36
because what's really
happening is the these
00:19:36.39\00:19:39.36
immigrants from
many of now most of them
00:19:39.39\00:19:43.13
from Islamic
countries Turkey and particular
00:19:43.16\00:19:45.28
are bringing their
culture and they are very
00:19:45.31\00:19:47.93
distinctive religious
identity with them right
00:19:47.96\00:19:50.24
and this is bringing
an expression from the
00:19:50.27\00:19:54.38
Europeans it guess
like a be a citizen
00:19:54.94\00:19:57.82
from the sure, the
immigrant countries
00:19:58.43\00:20:00.60
all these immigrants,
but it's bringing forth from
00:20:00.63\00:20:02.56
them desire to
redefine themselves as what
00:20:02.59\00:20:04.84
it is to be swish or
what it is to be friends
00:20:04.87\00:20:08.41
and so on and automatically that
00:20:08.44\00:20:11.68
includes they
religious identity, sure.
00:20:11.71\00:20:13.88
So it's acting is a goal
to bring for I think never
00:20:13.91\00:20:16.53
releases. So it might
actually be inspiring you
00:20:16.56\00:20:18.62
know it is, their
religious I just what I believe
00:20:18.65\00:20:21.13
the and I don't
know anymore then one
00:20:21.16\00:20:22.73
else where there
is Islamic fundamental
00:20:22.76\00:20:24.90
surge will what
that we are same way this
00:20:24.93\00:20:27.59
will end up I mean it's
clearly not finished yet.
00:20:27.62\00:20:29.79
And hopefully we'll
dissipate in someway,
00:20:29.82\00:20:33.32
but it's clearly
acting is a go to for some
00:20:33.35\00:20:35.95
other forces
that are not too good.
00:20:35.98\00:20:37.49
And it's never good
to have a country in a
00:20:37.52\00:20:42.17
increasingly genguestic
way trying to redefine
00:20:42.20\00:20:45.18
itself, right. And
so this would Germany
00:20:45.21\00:20:46.90
that's exactly what
happened with Germany,
00:20:46.93\00:20:48.32
right, right, right.
It sense of protecting
00:20:48.35\00:20:50.31
the German people against Jews,
00:20:50.34\00:20:52.38
loves and so on
right some of them was
00:20:52.41\00:20:55.34
founded but much
of was just presides
00:20:55.37\00:20:57.03
and this is what's
happening with the Islamic
00:20:57.06\00:20:59.08
population. Yeah, as
know, and on religious
00:20:59.11\00:21:00.48
liberty issue yes
we'll defend peoples right
00:21:00.51\00:21:03.24
to wear Islamic
or religious scarf,
00:21:03.27\00:21:06.25
but I think we've
been nive to see it purely
00:21:07.65\00:21:10.78
on that level that
are really deep issues
00:21:10.81\00:21:12.71
that play that we
might not be helping
00:21:12.74\00:21:14.76
the situation to
insist on that even that they
00:21:14.79\00:21:17.61
might be theoretical
right to wear religious
00:21:17.64\00:21:20.64
scarf to encourage
that insistence might be
00:21:20.67\00:21:25.49
towards a largest
situation that's really
00:21:25.52\00:21:28.82
mark to it's on
this. From, being born and
00:21:28.85\00:21:33.10
living in America,
it's interesting perspective
00:21:33.13\00:21:38.16
for me it's not when I
really I guess understand
00:21:38.19\00:21:41.47
is very well as
far as we want to keep
00:21:41.50\00:21:43.29
frank friend and
sort of those mentalities,
00:21:43.32\00:21:46.40
because you know
America is always don't
00:21:46.43\00:21:48.47
the melting the part and
which is not really true.
00:21:48.50\00:21:51.44
Well I think the more and more,
00:21:51.47\00:21:53.38
I would say that it is a
lot of more than a lot of
00:21:56.55\00:21:58.11
western a lot more
than Western European
00:21:58.14\00:22:00.12
countries it's a what is
it it's really found from
00:22:00.15\00:22:02.57
yes I'm sittings with
stood more but you find that
00:22:02.60\00:22:07.01
this suburbs right, but
you not this the Minnesota
00:22:07.04\00:22:09.63
right, there is the
but it mean within and
00:22:09.66\00:22:13.80
it certain thoughts of
New York there is Dutch
00:22:13.83\00:22:15.44
there is the right,
the Jews and so, right.
00:22:15.47\00:22:17.87
And all of those barriers
at the cities or cultures
00:22:17.90\00:22:20.93
are celebrated you
now you go to Minnesota
00:22:20.96\00:22:23.06
and you'll have you
know the festival for their
00:22:23.09\00:22:26.33
you know no regions
or you know you go to
00:22:26.36\00:22:29.93
Chicago you have the
fullish vegetable and
00:22:29.96\00:22:32.11
you know you so you
celebrate the culture
00:22:32.14\00:22:35.26
and the holidays and
they have the festivals
00:22:35.29\00:22:37.88
and so it's I'm not used
to the sort of the French
00:22:37.91\00:22:45.38
or now I'm saying
you know the Belgium
00:22:45.41\00:22:47.64
man to the
Western European attitude
00:22:47.67\00:22:49.37
of no when you come
to our country you now
00:22:49.40\00:22:52.32
do this and this and
this you behave in this way
00:22:52.35\00:22:55.00
you repress your formal
identity. So it's not it's not
00:22:55.03\00:23:00.04
something. No, in
the United States and
00:23:00.07\00:23:02.23
Australia where I'm
from is being spadel out
00:23:02.26\00:23:05.11
of that I think
geography because in Europe
00:23:05.14\00:23:07.51
these are always
little countries bumped up
00:23:07.54\00:23:09.49
against each other
with the great history of
00:23:09.52\00:23:11.14
conflict and so on,
and very distinct cultures
00:23:11.17\00:23:14.39
usually different
language and plus approximately
00:23:14.42\00:23:16.99
and so it's just
tighten as what we have here
00:23:17.02\00:23:18.93
but it's muted on,
right. But it's come up at
00:23:18.96\00:23:21.14
several times in the
U.S. and of course with the
00:23:21.17\00:23:23.12
Irish coming in that
played out with the vengeance
00:23:23.15\00:23:25.27
will go to that the
Germans in the U.S. had a
00:23:25.30\00:23:30.17
difficult time
Japanese were turns right
00:23:30.20\00:23:33.18
so we have not be
into it yeah, right, now
00:23:33.21\00:23:35.33
absolutely. The other
issue is a lot of people
00:23:35.36\00:23:38.54
are proponents of the
band on the Burka or the
00:23:38.57\00:23:43.24
head scarf
specifically because they think
00:23:43.27\00:23:44.99
of it is woman's
rights issue and it's a symbol
00:23:45.02\00:23:47.88
of you know a
pression of woman but
00:23:47.91\00:23:49.91
I think that you
can't look at that those
00:23:49.94\00:23:52.21
particular acts or
that way of dressing and it
00:23:52.24\00:23:55.89
only isolated ways as
far as saying it's you know
00:23:55.92\00:23:59.78
it's a sign of
submissive woman or a lot of
00:23:59.81\00:24:02.88
women modern Muslim
women chose to do this
00:24:02.91\00:24:06.73
on their own it's
not something that they
00:24:06.76\00:24:08.85
are social structure
man dated or requires.
00:24:08.88\00:24:13.18
You know I think we
talked earlier about Turkey
00:24:13.21\00:24:15.85
well lot of the
younger women in which Turkey
00:24:15.88\00:24:18.76
is concern one of the
more secular Muslim societies
00:24:18.79\00:24:23.25
are taking this on
themselves and so I don't
00:24:23.28\00:24:26.13
think in it's isolated where
you can use that particular
00:24:26.16\00:24:30.70
form of dress I
don't think it's accurate.
00:24:30.73\00:24:33.10
This is where the divide
days to be joy in this very
00:24:33.13\00:24:38.06
few things in life
for absolutely this are
00:24:38.09\00:24:40.73
absolutely, right.
But there is a phenomenon
00:24:40.76\00:24:42.80
the west I think it's
ignoring at their on parallel
00:24:42.83\00:24:45.66
in countries
that of drifted toward
00:24:46.44\00:24:47.97
54.47σ
fundamentalism, and in western
00:24:48.00\00:24:51.06
countries where there
is arise in radical Islamic
00:24:51.09\00:24:53.76
thought, there is
incredible social pressure
00:24:53.79\00:24:56.39
within the Islamic
community that the young women
00:24:56.42\00:24:59.14
wear these head
dresses and they do it many
00:24:59.17\00:25:02.94
of them out of self
protection they will say
00:25:02.97\00:25:06.04
it's their choice but I
think it's a very small minority
00:25:06.07\00:25:09.56
that are feel free
enough and comfort enough
00:25:09.59\00:25:12.89
of their identity that
just voluntarily issues
00:25:12.92\00:25:15.70
I'm not saying it
doesn't happen, right.
00:25:15.73\00:25:17.36
Well I think but the
larger move is clearly on the
00:25:17.39\00:25:19.69
foot that you can pretty
much tell and think about
00:25:19.72\00:25:23.56
it logically if it would
was that just in increase
00:25:23.59\00:25:25.87
in proud. You would see
a slight up with take but
00:25:25.90\00:25:28.16
the but when there is
sudden intake of radical
00:25:28.19\00:25:31.83
sentiment in Islamic
community al of the sudden
00:25:31.86\00:25:35.14
the women of wearing
it. But and I think the
00:25:35.17\00:25:38.20
west hasn't dressed it
ut it's connected with what
00:25:38.23\00:25:41.68
we've seen in the
strategy or even and certainly
00:25:41.71\00:25:43.76
in the United States
where young Islamic women
00:25:43.79\00:25:46.82
say wants to diet not non
Muslim will live a life little
00:25:46.85\00:25:51.12
out of the known for
the religion and they have
00:25:51.15\00:25:52.85
often being are their
abused beaten or sometimes
00:25:52.88\00:25:56.86
kill by their family and at
that, that's what's going on.
00:25:56.89\00:26:00.14
It's incredible social
pressure from religious
00:26:00.17\00:26:03.16
reason where that the
person very live can be a
00:26:03.19\00:26:05.87
thread, right. But I
guess I mean you should jump
00:26:05.90\00:26:08.98
from one forced way of
living to another force
00:26:09.01\00:26:12.75
of living meaning not
and that' the trick and
00:26:12.78\00:26:14.37
I don't know total the
answer, I don't believe it's
00:26:14.40\00:26:17.17
purely a religious
liberty issue, right and this is
00:26:17.20\00:26:20.07
t debating here we need
to be sensitive and have
00:26:20.10\00:26:25.22
these western
countries can cross this divine
00:26:25.25\00:26:27.64
they must not restricted
behavior of person just
00:26:27.67\00:26:30.18
because they don't
like the religion, right.
00:26:30.21\00:26:32.36
There is nothing a
find line between protection
00:26:32.39\00:26:35.83
and mandating. And
we certainly don't want
00:26:35.86\00:26:39.10
to fall you know as
we've talked many times
00:26:39.13\00:26:41.56
before we as Christians
and then right to choose.
00:26:41.59\00:26:45.13
And so we want to
make sure and give
00:26:45.81\00:26:47.41
that right extend
that right to others.
00:26:47.44\00:26:49.55
It's very intersecting
to read in the book Exodus
00:26:51.88\00:26:54.24
in the Old Testament that
Joseph and his father Jacob,
00:26:54.27\00:26:59.59
both of them were
embalmed in the fashion
00:26:59.62\00:27:03.20
of the Egyptians.
Now we know that that
00:27:03.23\00:27:05.70
embalming process that
ramification had a religious
00:27:05.73\00:27:08.91
basis and we know that
they will followers the
00:27:08.94\00:27:11.46
one god but they chose
to adopt the culture an the
00:27:11.49\00:27:16.93
wise of the society
of that they've joined.
00:27:16.96\00:27:19.18
I read in the New
Testament II that when Jesus
00:27:19.21\00:27:22.30
rise Lazarus from the
dead, he was bound about
00:27:22.33\00:27:25.96
with cluff restricted
in his movements as was the
00:27:25.99\00:27:29.90
custom when people
were barried and he see
00:27:29.93\00:27:32.73
shuffle forward rising
into laugh, you laugh and to
00:27:32.76\00:27:36.69
pale by that year.
That regenerating power
00:27:36.72\00:27:39.33
of God. Jesus called
out lose him, unbind him.
00:27:39.36\00:27:42.52
I believe today, we
need to look at that reality
00:27:44.33\00:27:46.35
it might be that
under the God's of religion
00:27:46.38\00:27:49.33
societies and
peoples are bound by habits
00:27:49.36\00:27:53.03
that ennobled
necessarily innately religious,
00:27:53.06\00:27:56.20
but that
restricting of their universal
00:27:56.23\00:27:59.99
personhood and their
rights as a human being.
00:28:00.02\00:28:02.88
This is Lincoln
Steed for liberty insider.
00:28:05.53\00:28:08.19