Welcome to the Liberty
Insider. This is the program
00:00:21.75\00:00:24.36
that brings you up-to-date
news, views, information,
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and discussion on religious
liberty issues. My name
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is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And my guest on this
program is Melissa Reid,
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Associate Editor
for Liberty Magazine.
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Welcome to the program.
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Thank you so much,
it's a delight to be here.
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And let's continue with
discussion that we set off
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in the Liberty office.
Okay, and something I want
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to share with our viewers
on this program, this has
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been very much in the
news in recent months.
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And we will not go away
for while because it may
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end up in the Supreme
Court was a lower court
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decision, I think he
was a judge in Wisconsin,
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right. Wrote down a
decision out of the blue
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really, but encouraged
by the freedom from religion
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foundation, yes. She
declared that the National
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Day of Prayer
unconstitutional, right,
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right. It's interesting
just a court from the judge
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it says its sole purpose
is to encourage all citizens
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to engage in prayer
and inherently religious
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exercise that serves
no secular function. Well,
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that's true or not
true, yes. It is inherently
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religious; it's not
particularly any religion
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other then an atheist,
although they say there
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is no atheist in foxholes.
So, under during Christmas
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everybody praise, it
amused me many years ago
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during out of a cold
war. The Soviet Union writes
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to something that
United States had done and they
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said it's not right,
it's not right and I thought
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now had you really
establish right and wrong
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without a religious
moral view point, yes.
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And certainly many
atheists started praying and
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working some para
when they need help, right.
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But there are some
that they go to their grave
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without it. But part
of the intension of the
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establishment course,
close not very close was
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to stop what existed in
the whole world, where the
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crown of England was
Church of England after the
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reformation and so
that the state endorsed that
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particular religious
view point. The framers of the
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US constitution had no
problem at all with the
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religion as an activity,
right, and right. And they
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wanted to encourage it,
right, so this judge is in
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some ways splitting his
in ways that haven't been
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done recently. Right,
it's interesting I mean the
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National Day of Prayer
has been announced in the
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second of 50's in
United States. Billy Graham was
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the one that promoted at
that time during the cold
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war, okay, in 55 I
think. You know, it's really an
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opportunity for people
just to take a moment and
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pray and reflect and
really hasn't since I can recall
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has ever been an issue
by individual, so what is
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the surprise willing to me
that this case, first of all
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you know came to fruition and
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then that the Judge
rule that the way that she
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dead and I don't think
it's over here you probably
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get further. Well that's
the thing; I think they look
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to the state department
or President Obama too.
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Well, you're referring
to what's really already
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happened, the judge
brought in this ruling and
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immediately the White
House legally challenged it,
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yes. And this clearly
was miscalculation by the
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freedom from religion
foundation, which brought
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the Sudan. It's obvious
that they thought, that the
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democrat, but less
important than the fact that the
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president is a democrat.
But the democratic court
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socialist, court communist,
court whatever miserable
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whatever president. You
know, these are all spurious
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charges, right. But I
think they imagine that,
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you would reflexly
support this given that his
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predecessor George
Bush was in an unseemly way
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supporting and supportive
of the religious right and
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there attempts to
bring religion, right, right,
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into the government.
But it's certainly wasn't
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the case Obama just
accord that he said when
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this year when he
recognized, I think May 6 was
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the day this year. It's
always the first Thursday in
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May that they consider
the National Day of Prayer,
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but just the accord that
he said he says throughout
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our nations history
Americans have come together
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in moments of great
challenge and uncertainty to
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humble themselves in
prayer, which goes along to
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your atheists and
foxholes sort of situation.
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It really isn't act that
brings Americans together
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in these times, you
know, if you remember
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September 11, was a
huge resurgence I mean it
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was a terrible situation
and action, but it was one
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you know you did see
people turning to their
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faith into prayer and to
God more because you know
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of the uncertainty of
the times. This discussion of
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the preparedness of the
federal government least
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lending it's imprimatur
to day of prayer and of
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course where the real
rubber hits the road as
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whether they are
organizing and requiring
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religious activity, right,
by enlarge it's just sort of
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a governmental sign off
to something that individual
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citizens do have an
opportunity. But it's
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something we really
need to think about because
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they very easily can
organize it and required in
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an abusive way. But,
you know religion is never
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been off the table
in Untied States, right.
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That's what people
need to remember, right,
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it is just doing injustice
to history to climb the
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framers intended
religion to be swiped away,
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right, it's almost the
argument is a little strong
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the other way and we
are constantly in Liberty
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Magazine trying to put
down or explain away some
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of the avert religionists,
who choose to use history
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to create the Christian
republic point of view and
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I think they overstepped
their bounds, but so far
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into that construct
that you can't appreciate all
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the way back and
make this ought to be not
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communist, but the
secular is the communist who
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try the wait, right,
right. And this is precisely why
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the day of prayer got
attraction in the cold war
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because we were trying
to show ourselves to be
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people of religious
faith as supposed to God was
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coming, right. You
know, I've had so many people
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query me as to Liberty
Magazine being published
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by the Seventh-Day
Adventist Church because
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it's hard for them to
understand why protestant
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religion wants to
separate Church in state why,
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you know, why do we
don't want to use the power
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or the force of religion
for ideals and it's interesting
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because we by no means
as a magazine are against
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anti-religion it's the
whole purpose of our being as
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a Church and as individuals
you and I. I agree with
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you, it is a good time
to throw in my catch line
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of recent number of
times to provoke a reaction,
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I've said that there is
way too much religion in this
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world, way too much
religion and not enough
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spirituality, absolutely
sure, and that's really why
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I'm one of the reasons,
I'm vigorous to keep the
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separation of church to
state. Because the state is
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incompetent to
develop spirituality, right.
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And when it gets
into religion, it's only
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competent really for
enforcement, yes. The end
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of the day sure, and that's
destructive of true religion
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right. I read
something recently by Adventist,
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the Seventh-Day
Adventist pioneer and
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prophet Ellen White;
she was recognized to have
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prophetic gifts not for
old peoples, although truth
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what she was told was
well of truths, but it was an
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inside tool for a group
of people, who are studying
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the Bible preparing for
the return of Christ and
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she was given messages
from the Lord to this group
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and she had lot to say
on Church state issues.
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Yeah, and she wrote an
interesting letter to Church
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leaders at one point
toward the end of, I was
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gonna say last century,
but last century is only 10
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years about. The
century before at the end of the
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1800s and they were
discussing whether the
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state should teach the
Bible in public schools,
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right. Which we would
fight pretty vigorously,
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right, because it's clearly
against the establishment
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principle or the first
amendment of establishment
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close and she said she
didn't think it was right.
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The Bible be taught in
the schools not legally right,
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but she said we
shouldn't oppose too strongly.
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Because such a good
thing will happen eventually
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to say then, we should
not oppose such a good thing
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where our people read
and are exposed to the
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Bible, sure. And so
this is where we are with the
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National Day of Prayer
in my view. Prayer is what
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we should all the
living toward we should,
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you know what is the,
we should take whatever
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opportunity we can
should be, right seek the Lord
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while he might be
found, absolutely. The days can
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easily come when
people don't feel the need for
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the Lord, secularism in
the case of life and the
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disasters on every hand
you know prayer might be
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unobtainable, so it's a
great thing do encourage
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people, it's just that
we know the danger of the
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state getting to
involve in it. So, this is not
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absolutely an issue of
right or wrong, it's an
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issue proprietary and the
right relationship between
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Church and state, right.
And I think is the Supreme
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Court seen many times,
if we can thread a safe line
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in the Supreme Court,
deal with the all the time
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by ceremony of these,
you're right, which bothers
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me in one level
because it just means religion
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devoid of meaning
anymore, I wouldn't myself
00:10:05.67\00:10:08.85
put it that way, I
think low level religious
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sensibilities are fine as
long as they are not allow
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to control, the unwilling,
right, or the religious and
00:10:14.46\00:10:18.71
they are not given this
prerogative to the state to
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mandate, right and from
the critics that I've read or
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the analysis that I've
read of this particular
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issue that's what they
are expecting any higher court
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would reverse this
decision by this judge in
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Wisconsin if challenged,
let me now reverse it,
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I'm inclined to think
they'll finish the way out of,
00:10:37.48\00:10:39.48
of, okay, they might
deny standing or just some
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sort of technicality
about something, yeah,
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I mean there is no way
in the United States of
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America and particularly
with this present Supreme
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Court that is increasingly
conservative, right,
00:10:52.62\00:10:55.76
and strong religious
sensible as they are not
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gonna uphold this, they'll
be writing in the streets,
00:10:59.21\00:11:01.54
right, right, but it is
gonna be interesting to see
00:11:01.71\00:11:04.42
where this goes, yeah,
yeah, we are running out
00:11:04.60\00:11:08.42
of time before the break
and after the break I can
00:11:08.58\00:11:11.08
continue this but
yeah, I've had a first hand
00:11:11.28\00:11:12.92
experience just recently,
I was going to say you will
00:11:13.04\00:11:14.99
have to tell our viewing
audience, I was invited by
00:11:15.19\00:11:18.15
a Ministers' Fraternal
few weeks ago to go to Provo
00:11:18.18\00:11:22.57
just like salt like city
and taken into denominational
00:11:22.78\00:11:25.99
National Day of Prayer
presentation and that was
00:11:27.70\00:11:31.31
very eye opening to me,
yeah that's when I looked
00:11:31.45\00:11:33.51
at the Ellen White statement
that I eluted to earlier,
00:11:33.60\00:11:35.67
I had think through would
I be involved with this in
00:11:36.32\00:11:39.27
reality it was not an
hard decision whether to go to
00:11:39.51\00:11:41.87
this event because it
was not in any shape full
00:11:42.11\00:11:45.52
momentum, where
government connected yeah,
00:11:45.68\00:11:48.47
just a local
ministers fraternal, right, and
00:11:48.59\00:11:51.15
curiously enough, well
we're running out of time
00:11:51.29\00:11:54.27
and I'll say this
curious thing after the break,
00:11:54.39\00:11:56.63
but it was a wonderful
moment there to stand up
00:11:57.25\00:11:59.64
and look out in Provo
obviously lots of them
00:11:59.72\00:12:03.55
were Momin's. They
were of course different
00:12:03.60\00:12:06.57
protestant representatives
I think there was some
00:12:06.70\00:12:10.02
Roman Catholics
there, there was an American
00:12:10.13\00:12:13.13
Indian that prayed to
the great spirit at one point
00:12:13.16\00:12:15.56
of time, there was Hari
Krishna who in turns some
00:12:15.59\00:12:18.57
stuff that I didn't
understand, but he was
00:12:19.51\00:12:21.22
very articulate individual
as we tell later and I felt
00:12:21.35\00:12:25.65
that it was good in
the nation that has many,
00:12:25.69\00:12:28.02
many yields for a
group encouragement towards
00:12:28.05\00:12:31.64
spirituality. So, I look
forward to hearing then a
00:12:32.79\00:12:39.42
little bit more, yeah,
about that event. So, we'll come
00:12:39.49\00:12:42.10
back after the break and
you know pretty something
00:12:42.24\00:12:45.58
that I discovered about
this day of prayer that was
00:12:45.76\00:12:48.52
troubling to me at
the time of inclusion.
00:12:48.69\00:12:50.76
100 years a long time
to do anything much less
00:12:59.48\00:13:03.52
publish a magazine,
but this year Liberty the
00:13:03.68\00:13:07.16
Seventh-Day Adventist
voice of religious freedom
00:13:07.31\00:13:09.49
celebrates 100 years
of doing what it does best
00:13:09.81\00:13:13.13
collecting, analyzing,
and reporting the add and flow
00:13:13.67\00:13:16.89
of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:17.05\00:13:19.14
Issue after issue,
Liberty has taken on the tough
00:13:19.74\00:13:22.73
assignments tracking
down threats to religious
00:13:22.91\00:13:25.26
freedom and exposing
the work of a devil in every
00:13:25.54\00:13:28.06
corner of the globe.
Governmental interference,
00:13:28.31\00:13:30.89
personal attacks, corporate
assaults, even religious
00:13:31.04\00:13:34.29
freedom issues
sequestered within the
00:13:34.39\00:13:35.79
Church community
itself have been clearly and
00:13:36.02\00:13:38.30
honestly exposed. Liberty
exists for one purpose to
00:13:38.53\00:13:42.77
help God's people
maintain that all important
00:13:42.87\00:13:45.61
separation of Church
and State while recognizing
00:13:45.69\00:13:48.66
the dangers inherent in
such a struggle. During the
00:13:48.82\00:13:52.14
past century, Liberty
has experienced challenges of
00:13:52.27\00:13:54.72
its own, but it remains
on the job. Thanks to the
00:13:55.01\00:13:58.28
inspired leadership of
a long line of dedicated
00:13:58.43\00:14:00.95
Adventist Editors,
three of whom represent almost
00:14:01.06\00:14:03.43
half of the publications
existence and the foresight
00:14:03.74\00:14:06.53
of a little women from
New England. 100 years of
00:14:06.56\00:14:10.10
struggle, 100 years of
victories, religious freedom
00:14:10.22\00:14:14.04
isn't just about
political machines and cultural
00:14:14.07\00:14:16.94
prejudices. It's about
people fighting for the
00:14:17.08\00:14:20.59
right to serve the God
they love as their hearts and
00:14:20.68\00:14:23.98
the Holy Spirit dictates.
Thanks to the prayers and
00:14:24.01\00:14:27.48
generous support of
Seventh-Day Adventists
00:14:27.59\00:14:29.64
everywhere. Liberty will
continue to accomplish its
00:14:29.88\00:14:32.64
work of providing timely
information, spirit filled
00:14:32.85\00:14:35.44
inspiration, and heaven
sent encouragement to all
00:14:35.84\00:14:38.84
who long to live and
work in a world bound together
00:14:38.93\00:14:42.80
by the God ordained
bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:42.91\00:14:46.68
Before the break and
welcome back, before the
00:14:55.66\00:14:58.03
break we were talking
about the National Day of
00:14:58.13\00:15:00.90
Prayer, which is being
very contentious according to
00:15:01.15\00:15:05.78
one of the judges brought
down an action against it,
00:15:06.00\00:15:09.68
unconstitutional
according to this judge in
00:15:09.99\00:15:11.44
Wisconsin, right, and I
was telling our viewers my
00:15:11.66\00:15:14.81
experiences in
Provo, Utah talking to an
00:15:14.91\00:15:18.07
international group and
it went very well and we had
00:15:18.31\00:15:21.89
good newspaper reporting
on it, two stories one the
00:15:22.15\00:15:24.58
day before and one the
day after, right, but they
00:15:24.65\00:15:29.68
told me something that
really roiled me more than,
00:15:29.87\00:15:33.14
than the judges perhaps
they will consider the action
00:15:33.29\00:15:36.53
more than some of the
other political to and fro
00:15:36.96\00:15:41.80
like this big critics
that the president has legally
00:15:42.69\00:15:45.82
challenged it, but
what they told me there just
00:15:46.11\00:15:49.04
bothered me. The
Billy Graham Group, now
00:15:49.17\00:15:52.45
Franklin Graham
setting that up and I think the
00:15:52.61\00:15:58.42
Dr. Dobson's wife, wife
is involved, is up there the
00:15:58.67\00:16:01.62
actual steering committee,
they have made it very
00:16:01.76\00:16:05.53
clear at least in Utah
that they will not allow
00:16:05.74\00:16:09.41
Momin's to be involved
for this later they day signs
00:16:09.64\00:16:12.44
to be involved. Well
that's sort of contradicts the
00:16:12.52\00:16:14.97
idea that prayer is for
everyone, I couldn't get
00:16:15.00\00:16:17.38
my head around it
because they don't seem to have
00:16:17.53\00:16:19.91
a problem at the
meeting that I went to at the
00:16:19.94\00:16:23.48
presentation,
Muslims or Hindus and so on,
00:16:23.90\00:16:28.75
no problem, but they
have enemies against Momins
00:16:28.92\00:16:33.88
saying that they are not
Christians and I know why
00:16:34.25\00:16:36.47
they say that I think its
uncharitable to express it
00:16:36.50\00:16:39.25
that way, but you know
Mominism is not main line
00:16:39.28\00:16:42.35
Christianity you know
they have their own book of
00:16:42.52\00:16:45.19
Momin that if you really
scratch a Momin a little bit
00:16:45.28\00:16:48.10
they will admit to you
that this is the valid book,
00:16:48.22\00:16:50.61
the Bible is a
corrupt, not an wrong document,
00:16:51.07\00:16:54.25
but it's being corrupted
by scribblers through the
00:16:54.46\00:16:56.63
years so much that is
not reliable and here the
00:16:56.76\00:16:59.95
book of Momin is the
real Revelation of Jesus as he
00:16:59.99\00:17:03.98
explains the children of
Israel who came to this new
00:17:06.12\00:17:10.45
land and then Jesus
appeared here, it's amazing
00:17:10.59\00:17:12.64
story, right, you know,
they were allowed to believe
00:17:12.77\00:17:15.36
what they want, right,
but on this day its just
00:17:15.50\00:17:18.33
amazing to me that
they could be such exclusion
00:17:18.43\00:17:21.29
when the whole
purpose if government were to
00:17:21.97\00:17:26.62
continue their
recommendation of this
00:17:26.77\00:17:28.45
right it has to be
broad-based, very if you
00:17:28.83\00:17:33.11
stop to and John Adam
spoke of this that if any
00:17:33.50\00:17:36.41
sect gets the favoritism
of the government that
00:17:36.55\00:17:39.96
they can easily then
exclude all other sects,
00:17:40.22\00:17:42.75
right, right, he made
that statement, right and to
00:17:42.78\00:17:44.38
see this being worked
out was very problematic to
00:17:44.48\00:17:46.81
me, right. Well, I think
you're being a bit modest
00:17:46.84\00:17:48.62
here because if
weren't you one of you were the
00:17:48.80\00:17:51.24
main speaker there
at the event won't you?
00:17:51.29\00:17:53.24
Yes, yes, so tell us I am
very interested to hear what
00:17:53.93\00:17:56.40
your message was to the
individuals. Well, I didn't
00:17:56.43\00:17:59.95
bring the quote with
me, but I laid off by a very
00:18:00.07\00:18:02.75
famous quote in English
literature written by Alfred
00:18:02.87\00:18:06.58
Lord Tennyson in his
poem Mourned The Death of
00:18:06.62\00:18:11.99
Arthur. He reached back
into the midst of English
00:18:12.05\00:18:15.56
history and brought the
Arthur legend, which I think
00:18:15.74\00:18:19.34
Americans know by
Cammello, right, we used to
00:18:19.39\00:18:22.58
have Cammello, yes,
in the United States the
00:18:22.68\00:18:24.29
Kennedy resumed, yes,
but you know there has been
00:18:24.39\00:18:27.21
film made about that and
so, but in England it really
00:18:27.33\00:18:29.68
is more basic it goes
back to their sense of
00:18:29.91\00:18:34.46
nationhood because
Arthur, if you can extract him
00:18:34.69\00:18:37.27
from history at all was
a ruler that emerged at the
00:18:37.44\00:18:41.54
time of the Roman
occupation, so that's when
00:18:41.58\00:18:43.94
after the imperial
experiment, he they had some
00:18:45.20\00:18:47.63
self identity and so he
invoked Arthur and here in
00:18:47.99\00:18:52.01
this poem Arthur is dieing
after the battle with those
00:18:52.12\00:18:55.18
who would serve his
path and I picked up in my
00:18:55.21\00:19:00.13
thought something that
is inherent in all of that
00:19:00.28\00:19:02.51
literature of those
prehistory times and even
00:19:02.68\00:19:05.97
get to get the complex
artistic explanation here,
00:19:08.06\00:19:10.41
but even Richard
Wagner in his efforts that
00:19:10.46\00:19:14.13
unfortunately Hitler
seized upon, right told some of
00:19:14.18\00:19:16.65
these same stories,
peaceful the pure night on
00:19:16.76\00:19:19.54
his quest for the holy
grail all of those stories
00:19:19.57\00:19:24.27
have an inherent idea
that the mid evil mind
00:19:24.98\00:19:26.84
understood that the
health of the land was depended
00:19:27.07\00:19:30.42
upon having a just king
and if the king was ill,
00:19:30.51\00:19:34.76
if the king was evil the
land suffered and in that
00:19:35.37\00:19:39.16
context Lord Tennyson
quotes a line and he actually
00:19:39.32\00:19:42.75
quoted from Shakespeare,
he said there are more
00:19:42.91\00:19:44.74
things wrote by prayer
than this world dreams off
00:19:44.86\00:19:47.93
and then he said
paraphrasing loosely,
00:19:48.68\00:19:51.57
he says we are little
more than animals if we can't
00:19:51.67\00:19:54.69
raise our voices to
God and ask his help for us
00:19:54.77\00:19:58.04
and our land, oh yes, and
so I picked up on the idea
00:19:58.10\00:20:01.98
or a tone that I've heard
over many years in previous
00:20:02.11\00:20:05.88
jobs, where I met with
other Christians and mostly
00:20:05.93\00:20:09.43
other Christians, but
other religious groups
00:20:09.58\00:20:11.13
around this country and
invariably I've heard them
00:20:11.25\00:20:14.09
pray that God would heal
this land, yes, and I just
00:20:14.20\00:20:17.77
believed that as never
before the United States
00:20:17.92\00:20:20.43
would lead the whole
world, but in this country
00:20:20.46\00:20:21.95
this is where we are
centered. I know this
00:20:22.08\00:20:24.10
broadcast or this television
program goes little more
00:20:24.27\00:20:27.67
broadly, but surely the
United States which is head
00:20:27.71\00:20:31.12
views of religious
exceptionalism and freedom
00:20:31.78\00:20:34.47
and so it's a funny
mix, but it's not improper to
00:20:34.50\00:20:37.73
pray that God will
heal the land, right, right.
00:20:37.95\00:20:40.90
We might differ on how
we think he has to heal it,
00:20:40.95\00:20:43.16
right, it might be
wrong to think he heals the
00:20:43.26\00:20:46.02
government, but
certainly he should heal our
00:20:46.16\00:20:48.73
spiritual ills and
point us toward him, right,
00:20:48.91\00:20:50.77
right, and just to
reiterate you know you mentioned
00:20:51.13\00:20:55.11
Ellen White earlier one
of the leaders of the early
00:20:55.68\00:20:59.79
Seventh-Day
Adventist Church and a prophet.
00:20:59.87\00:21:01.90
She intoned to us
that we should pray for our
00:21:03.04\00:21:05.91
country's leaders,
sure, that we need to be
00:21:06.00\00:21:08.03
you know and these we
need, you know these are
00:21:08.20\00:21:11.34
the things that effect
our lives in very large
00:21:11.52\00:21:15.56
significant way and so of
course we should be taking
00:21:15.61\00:21:18.22
these matters to God in
prayer, right, so I didn't
00:21:18.35\00:21:21.19
feel embarrassed at
all of being part of that,
00:21:21.33\00:21:23.26
but it was a new
experience and you know prayer
00:21:23.49\00:21:27.15
is a very central spiritual
activity and I pointed out
00:21:27.61\00:21:30.65
that you know the Bible
is quite plane even if I
00:21:30.84\00:21:34.25
look down on the notes
here is the durer praying
00:21:34.45\00:21:37.20
hands that are very,
it's durer or durer praying
00:21:37.45\00:21:41.83
hands, but here we think
that's a Christian activity,
00:21:42.02\00:21:44.29
but doesn't know you
can go to India, you can see
00:21:44.32\00:21:46.44
the Hindus you know
the attitude of prayer
00:21:46.95\00:21:49.67
supplication toward a
power beyond there and
00:21:50.30\00:21:52.97
it's not a bad idea and I
made an illusion, the melody
00:21:53.44\00:21:55.91
before that just came,
right and you know the oil
00:21:56.05\00:21:59.95
is bubbling up in the
Gulf, I think we got a reminder
00:22:00.04\00:22:02.48
there the technology has
its limits, its obviously
00:22:02.51\00:22:05.45
limited to a mile deep,
can't get much deeper and
00:22:05.58\00:22:09.70
I remember it dates me
perhaps, but I do remember
00:22:09.81\00:22:13.68
that men landing on
the moon and since that day
00:22:13.80\00:22:16.44
I listened to public radio
a lot and if I heard of once
00:22:17.16\00:22:19.96
of it, a 1000 times,
surely we can get a man on the
00:22:20.02\00:22:23.29
moon, we can do this.
Yes. Well, there are limits
00:22:23.52\00:22:25.59
to human para, yes, and
it's a good reminder to pray
00:22:25.62\00:22:30.49
to God, to reach out to a
higher path, when the world
00:22:30.53\00:22:34.31
is collapsing around us
and letting us down as it
00:22:34.34\00:22:37.03
will to point to the
divine and to keep our footing
00:22:37.09\00:22:40.55
spiritually. And I think
it's a great idea for the
00:22:41.65\00:22:46.13
leader of our country to
acknowledge that there is
00:22:46.17\00:22:49.75
a higher power, you know,
of course yeah that there,
00:22:49.78\00:22:52.91
you know, that he
doesn't, you know, the nation,
00:22:53.08\00:22:55.99
he doesn't have absolute
say with the nation that we
00:22:56.54\00:22:59.28
all answer to this higher
being and I would certainly
00:22:59.41\00:23:02.64
apply that by our nations
leader. No, I think I shared
00:23:02.81\00:23:05.71
this on another program,
but this is the right context
00:23:05.80\00:23:08.46
to repeat them. There
are two quotes that I would
00:23:08.51\00:23:11.22
like to share with our
viewers just to put it,
00:23:11.29\00:23:13.61
I'm not a flip flop, but
always I'll give it here and
00:23:14.56\00:23:17.51
I'll give it there, there
are cautions on this National
00:23:17.58\00:23:22.08
Day of Prayer, which
I hope it continues or
00:23:22.29\00:23:23.98
at least the concept and
to the questions from well
00:23:24.05\00:23:30.32
known figures in
American history Thomas
00:23:30.61\00:23:32.28
Jefferson not your standard
religionist, when he was
00:23:32.40\00:23:39.36
elected president in
the campaign it was put out
00:23:39.47\00:23:43.07
an atheist was
going to rule the country.
00:23:43.27\00:23:45.35
He wasn't an atheist, he
was sort of deist, right,
00:23:45.94\00:23:48.93
he respected religion,
but this is what he said about
00:23:49.02\00:23:51.88
the day of prayer, a
right day of prayer. He said
00:23:51.91\00:23:54.54
fasting and prayer
are religious exercises,
00:23:54.82\00:23:57.25
the enjoining them
as an active discipline,
00:23:57.87\00:24:00.25
every religious society
has a right to determine for
00:24:00.88\00:24:03.37
itself the time for
these exercises and the objects
00:24:03.52\00:24:06.89
proper for them according
to their own particular
00:24:07.10\00:24:09.71
tenants and right can
never be safe within their
00:24:09.90\00:24:12.95
hands, where the
constitution has deposited
00:24:13.02\00:24:16.10
it, civil powers
alone have been given to the
00:24:16.25\00:24:19.58
President of the
United States and no authority
00:24:19.87\00:24:23.38
to direct the
religious exercises of his
00:24:23.52\00:24:26.14
constituents. We
need to keep that in mind,
00:24:26.17\00:24:28.14
absolutely I believe
that he can certainly act to
00:24:28.17\00:24:31.61
recommend morality on
the people, but he has
00:24:31.72\00:24:33.83
no authority on that
regard. Then James Madison
00:24:33.89\00:24:37.80
a very religious man,
who had a lot to do with the
00:24:37.97\00:24:42.53
Bill of Rights of course
the first amendments right
00:24:42.58\00:24:45.21
up there, right, and this
is what he said, There has
00:24:45.25\00:24:49.60
been another deviation
from the strict principle in
00:24:49.78\00:24:52.24
the Executive Proclamations
of Fasts & Festivals,
00:24:52.34\00:24:55.47
so far, at least, as they
have spoken the language of
00:24:55.77\00:24:57.84
injunction, in other
words as they are forced or
00:24:58.14\00:25:02.29
projected. He says or
have lost sight of the
00:25:02.52\00:25:05.13
equality of all religious
sects in the eye of the
00:25:05.38\00:25:07.90
Constitution. Whilst
I was honored with the
00:25:08.01\00:25:10.57
Executive Trust in
other words when he was
00:25:10.89\00:25:12.37
President, I found it
necessary and more than
00:25:12.46\00:25:15.27
one occasion to follow
the example of predecessors.
00:25:15.36\00:25:18.20
But I was always careful
to make the Proclamations
00:25:18.67\00:25:21.65
absolutely
indiscriminate, and merely
00:25:22.04\00:25:24.98
recommendatory; or
rather mere designations of
00:25:26.14\00:25:29.62
a day, on which all
who thought proper might
00:25:29.73\00:25:32.02
unite in consecrating
it to religious purposes,
00:25:32.16\00:25:34.56
according to their
own faith & forms. In this
00:25:34.71\00:25:36.84
sense, I presume you
reserve to the government
00:25:37.00\00:25:40.30
a right to appoint
particular days for
00:25:40.48\00:25:42.45
religious worship
throughout the State without any
00:25:42.65\00:25:45.38
penal sanction enforcing
the worship. I think he had
00:25:45.60\00:25:48.02
it right, he was in favor
of the spiritual activity,
00:25:48.24\00:25:52.20
but very cautious that
it could not be authorized
00:25:52.65\00:25:55.32
or enforced by the
state, right absolutely,
00:25:55.82\00:25:58.20
I mean to me and I am
sure to you as well prayer
00:25:58.82\00:26:02.39
is such an integral part
of my life and it brings me
00:26:02.53\00:26:07.24
you know such brings
me closer to God, which is
00:26:08.01\00:26:11.10
our ultimate goal. So,
we're really being pointed
00:26:11.35\00:26:12.88
in the right direction
by these proclamations of
00:26:12.97\00:26:15.82
prayer, yeah, that we
just need to remember the
00:26:16.07\00:26:18.65
point of it is God not
the Government. Absolutely,
00:26:19.02\00:26:22.03
I think the message that
we want to take away today
00:26:22.99\00:26:26.06
is just almost exactly
what Lincoln just said there
00:26:26.21\00:26:29.05
that this is what the
priority needs to be a
00:26:29.19\00:26:32.10
relationship with God
and that communication with
00:26:32.34\00:26:34.42
God, not that it's
mandated by our Government,
00:26:34.65\00:26:37.63
but we certainly
appreciate the encouragement
00:26:38.01\00:26:41.71
to seek that higher
power. Its very interesting to
00:26:41.92\00:26:46.64
the Bible and to try
to decide what is the very
00:26:47.09\00:26:49.65
cornel and what is
presented there, many people
00:26:49.75\00:26:53.00
have seen the ten
commandments as the epitome
00:26:53.14\00:26:55.72
of God's communication,
but in reality if you read
00:26:55.83\00:26:58.88
a little bit more carefully
I think its easy to sustain
00:26:59.05\00:27:02.32
an argument that the
prayer of Jesus for his
00:27:02.43\00:27:05.46
followers is probably the
high point and the greatest
00:27:05.60\00:27:08.32
description of what God
has in mind for his people
00:27:08.46\00:27:12.60
and all who follow him
and all who acknowledge
00:27:12.67\00:27:15.86
his claim to be the son
of God. Jesus prayed that
00:27:15.90\00:27:19.21
day may be one that's
really not an improper call
00:27:19.55\00:27:24.05
for a country towards
their citizen and the United
00:27:24.18\00:27:26.82
States has this claim
to be out of many one,
00:27:26.97\00:27:30.46
but in reality the state
cannot do it, the state can
00:27:31.39\00:27:34.55
only provide an
environment that is conducive to
00:27:34.81\00:27:37.86
spirituality and it is in
reaching out to God through
00:27:38.03\00:27:41.87
prayer that spirituality
can flourish and that
00:27:42.01\00:27:45.87
communication that only
prayer can create that lead
00:27:46.17\00:27:49.13
to more spirituality to
more godliness and I would
00:27:49.25\00:27:53.66
argue indeed to
greater and more responsible
00:27:53.86\00:27:57.06
citizenship and
a stronger nation.
00:27:57.27\00:27:59.60