Welcome to The Liberty Insider.
00:00:21.90\00:00:23.26
This is the program that
brings you up to date news,
00:00:23.29\00:00:25.70
views and information on
religious liberty issues.
00:00:25.73\00:00:28.57
My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
00:00:29.32\00:00:32.14
and the guest on our
program is Melissa Reid,
00:00:32.17\00:00:35.82
Associate Editor
for Liberty Magazine.
00:00:35.85\00:00:38.10
Oh it's a pleasure
to. Welcome back Melissa.
00:00:38.61\00:00:39.80
Thank you so much,
it's a pleasure to be with
00:00:40.27\00:00:41.61
you today. And now since
we're representing liberty
00:00:42.10\00:00:44.28
with twice the
emphasis of normal,
00:00:44.31\00:00:47.68
I'd like to discuss a
little with you, a project that
00:00:47.71\00:00:51.61
we worked on.
Yes. In recent weeks.
00:00:51.64\00:00:53.83
This is was a fun one to
put together, it is a DVD,
00:00:53.86\00:00:57.94
I don't know if you all can
see this here on the monitor
00:00:57.97\00:01:01.16
but it's called Explaining
Liberty and it's a seven part
00:01:01.19\00:01:04.87
series presented
by Lincoln Steed,
00:01:04.90\00:01:08.08
the Editor of Liberty, on
the history and the relevancy
00:01:08.11\00:01:11.89
of religious freedom
within the Seventh-day
00:01:11.92\00:01:14.45
Adventist Church, it's a
real historical perspective
00:01:14.48\00:01:17.33
on this particular
issue of religious freedom,
00:01:17.36\00:01:20.94
that's always really been
a part of the Church since
00:01:21.52\00:01:25.14
the Church's
inception. Right. What we tried
00:01:25.17\00:01:27.51
to do here, I didn't write
this series. Right, Dr. Bruce
00:01:27.54\00:01:31.45
Morgan, professor,
history professor at Washington
00:01:31.48\00:01:35.26
Adventist University.
Doug Morgan, I am sorry yes,
00:01:35.29\00:01:37.35
Doug Morgan, Doug
Morgan. A professor,
00:01:37.38\00:01:39.39
history professor at Washington
00:01:39.42\00:01:40.97
Adventist University. I
think he changed designation
00:01:41.00\00:01:45.42
about the time he
wrote this. Right,
00:01:45.45\00:01:47.04
but he is a historian
and we had him write the very
00:01:47.07\00:01:50.13
interesting story back
in the 1880s in these early
00:01:50.16\00:01:54.40
Seventh-day Adventist
Church where the editor
00:01:54.43\00:01:57.68
of the Liberty
precursor, Doug, Doug Morgan,
00:01:57.71\00:02:00.80
A. T. Jones, Alonzo T.
Jones, interesting character,
00:02:00.83\00:02:06.67
led out in a huge
battle against an Incipient
00:02:07.61\00:02:12.60
Sunday Law. Right. And
in so doing really revealed
00:02:12.63\00:02:16.72
and developed and
formulated in ways that
00:02:16.75\00:02:19.97
that we've been
inherited what religious liberty
00:02:20.00\00:02:22.60
really needed to
mean in the United States
00:02:22.63\00:02:24.76
and what it meant for
Seventh-day Adventists,
00:02:24.79\00:02:26.45
then he integrated a
prophetic view point,
00:02:27.34\00:02:29.48
a very biblical prophetic
view point and so I thought
00:02:30.12\00:02:33.24
and I know you agree
that this is something
00:02:33.70\00:02:36.19
that we should
remind our readers,
00:02:36.22\00:02:38.40
our Seventh-day
Adventist members certainly
00:02:38.43\00:02:41.07
need to know it if
they didn't before.
00:02:41.10\00:02:43.87
But any reader of
Liberty Magazine can benefit
00:02:43.90\00:02:46.71
from reiteration of
this really Titanic battle
00:02:46.74\00:02:51.14
in Washington. Yeah,
it's, I think it's a great
00:02:51.65\00:02:54.00
explanation for
non-Adventist readers as to why
00:02:54.03\00:02:57.59
the church is interested
in this particular issue,
00:02:57.62\00:03:00.27
it's you know one that
we've been interested in
00:03:00.30\00:03:02.66
for a quite a while and I
think for people interested
00:03:02.69\00:03:06.66
in history, historians seeing
how close the United States
00:03:06.69\00:03:11.05
came to implementing a
Sunday law back in the 1880s
00:03:11.08\00:03:15.05
is very interesting
and to think about that how
00:03:15.08\00:03:17.77
our life would be so different
if that had been the case.
00:03:17.80\00:03:20.34
Yeah, there is
probably some of our viewers,
00:03:20.37\00:03:22.17
especially those who
are Sunday keepers might
00:03:22.20\00:03:25.39
think great stuff,
let's have a Sunday law.
00:03:25.42\00:03:27.63
The country's going
to the dogs, Hollywood is
00:03:28.27\00:03:32.21
destroying its moral
fiber and you know all the other
00:03:32.24\00:03:36.55
stresses on our society,
maybe immigration is bringing
00:03:36.58\00:03:40.38
in people of non-Christian
background and while
00:03:40.41\00:03:45.76
you know we might respect them,
00:03:45.79\00:03:47.06
we, Americans
have forgotten country
00:03:47.09\00:03:50.43
and a certain
view of God, you know
00:03:50.46\00:03:52.18
let's have a law. Yeah.
00:03:52.21\00:03:53.35
What's wrong with that?
00:03:53.38\00:03:54.88
Well, I think it
takes away the whole I mean
00:03:55.90\00:03:57.70
how can you have
Christianity without choice,
00:03:57.73\00:04:00.16
the whole beautiful
thing about you know God's
00:04:00.19\00:04:02.52
love for us is the
choice that he has given us
00:04:02.55\00:04:05.13
to serve him and so I
think when you're mandating
00:04:05.16\00:04:08.22
that sort of worship,
it really sort of misses
00:04:08.25\00:04:11.25
the mark. And of
course for citizens
00:04:11.28\00:04:13.90
of the United States
they should be aware of the
00:04:14.39\00:04:15.68
constitution which
specifically setup to prohibit
00:04:15.71\00:04:23.45
And that said we're,
we're constantly debating
00:04:25.07\00:04:27.62
and it goes up to the Supreme
Court to split hairs on this,
00:04:27.65\00:04:30.48
you know what, what
is the difference between
00:04:31.25\00:04:32.82
an actual law and forcing a
particular religious viewpoint
00:04:36.46\00:04:37.43
and some of the
gray areas where we, we,
00:04:37.44\00:04:39.74
we which we see all the
time where the government is
00:04:39.77\00:04:41.44
showing a certain favoritism,
maybe that's the wrong
00:04:41.47\00:04:43.75
word, a little sensitivity
toward religious expression.
00:04:43.78\00:04:47.24
Right. And my viewpoint is
that the separation of church
00:04:47.72\00:04:50.95
and State does not
mean separation of religion
00:04:50.98\00:04:53.53
and society. Right.
This was always intended
00:04:53.56\00:04:56.91
to be a religious society
or at the very least a society
00:04:56.94\00:05:00.55
that greatly respects
religious expression and even
00:05:00.58\00:05:04.61
protects it to
the extend of the law,
00:05:04.64\00:05:07.45
but the government itself
should not be sort of religious
00:05:07.48\00:05:13.49
authority in chief. Right.
Or the president shouldn't
00:05:13.52\00:05:15.94
be the you know the
minister in chief. Right
00:05:15.97\00:05:17.75
right, I think it it, it
always is almost demeaning
00:05:17.78\00:05:20.73
to God to put him
on the same level.
00:05:20.76\00:05:22.45
Well and you've been
with Liberty long enough
00:05:22.48\00:05:25.12
to remember a cover, a
good for reminder to me.
00:05:25.15\00:05:29.38
We had a cover there
during one of the Supreme
00:05:29.41\00:05:32.46
Court debates of our
ten commandments and how
00:05:32.49\00:05:35.85
they should be
displayed and on our cover
00:05:35.88\00:05:38.36
we had I think it was
the priests carrying the Ark
00:05:38.39\00:05:42.79
in front of the capital.
Yes. And the title was showing
00:05:42.82\00:05:46.58
proper respect and the
inference was or at least
00:05:46.61\00:05:49.13
inference I intended was
that this is not proper respect
00:05:49.16\00:05:52.79
to truly holy things to
mix them in the civil sphere.
00:05:52.82\00:05:56.69
Absolutely. Even
in ancient Israel,
00:05:56.72\00:05:58.10
even under the theocracy,
the King was not to lead
00:05:58.13\00:06:02.99
out in religious services,
what was it King Uzziah,
00:06:03.02\00:06:05.65
one of the Kings sees
his hand withered when he
00:06:05.68\00:06:08.20
offered a sacrifice.
Right, right, King Ahab.
00:06:08.23\00:06:10.01
And then Saul was
cursed. King Saul. Yes.
00:06:10.04\00:06:12.61
Was cursed and the the
Prophet Samuel said your
00:06:12.64\00:06:18.59
kingdom is taken from
you. Yes. Because he had
00:06:18.62\00:06:20.58
sacrificed. Yes. In place
of the prophet in that case
00:06:20.61\00:06:25.31
but in essence the chief priest.
00:06:25.34\00:06:27.37
Right, he taken over
that that role. So, there are
00:06:27.40\00:06:31.46
very big issues at play
here in the United States
00:06:31.49\00:06:34.16
with religion. Yeah.
And we've returned to them
00:06:34.19\00:06:37.47
over and over again on
this program as our regular
00:06:37.50\00:06:40.03
viewers know, but we
need to emphasize two things,
00:06:40.06\00:06:43.01
the importance of
separating religion properly but
00:06:43.04\00:06:47.12
also that we do respect
religion, we're not opposed
00:06:47.15\00:06:49.91
to religion, we must never.
Right. Allow separationists
00:06:49.94\00:06:54.17
to put us into that position.
Right, and I think this DVD
00:06:54.20\00:06:58.28
here really does a great
service to both of those sides
00:06:58.31\00:07:03.42
of the coin and I would
really encourage our viewers
00:07:03.45\00:07:06.80
I know that we had
talked about the possibility
00:07:06.83\00:07:11.27
of offering this to our viewers,
00:07:11.30\00:07:12.73
to the viewers of
the show complimentary.
00:07:12.76\00:07:15.36
It's a great resource
would encourage you all to
00:07:15.39\00:07:20.15
contact our office and
ask for a complimentary
00:07:20.18\00:07:24.62
copy of this. Now you
want to give them your phone
00:07:24.65\00:07:26.37
number? The number is
301-680-6690 and that's
00:07:26.40\00:07:34.04
301-680-6690 and you
just want to ask for a copy
00:07:34.07\00:07:38.46
of the DVD Explain
Liberty. I would think,
00:07:38.49\00:07:42.61
you know like I said
it's broken into these
00:07:42.64\00:07:44.49
seven segments and I
think it's a great opportunity
00:07:44.52\00:07:47.70
if you have a home Bible
study, so maybe someone is,
00:07:47.73\00:07:50.70
you know a faithful
Christian but is just studying
00:07:50.73\00:07:53.91
about
Seventh-day Adventist faith,
00:07:53.94\00:07:55.33
great introduction to
the faith and why we are
00:07:55.36\00:07:58.95
interested in
this particular issue.
00:07:58.98\00:08:00.61
So I would
really encourage people,
00:08:00.64\00:08:02.86
I think it would be a
real asset to their their own
00:08:02.89\00:08:05.63
personal study. Yeah,
and I think they will find it
00:08:05.66\00:08:07.44
interesting because
even if they're vaguely aware
00:08:07.47\00:08:10.87
of these events. And
I doubt that they are,
00:08:10.90\00:08:13.50
because they drifted
into, yeah, pre history almost.
00:08:13.53\00:08:16.67
It will also explain a
lot about what Adventists
00:08:16.70\00:08:21.67
believe not just
about religious liberty
00:08:21.70\00:08:23.22
but in time events. And
this is what I like about this
00:08:23.25\00:08:26.82
work of Liberty
Magazine and the premiering role
00:08:26.85\00:08:30.42
of A.T. Jones, it wasn't
just a constitutional issue,
00:08:30.45\00:08:33.86
it wasn't even just
sort of clearing away for the
00:08:33.89\00:08:36.49
day-to-day practice of
religion. The backdrop to
00:08:36.52\00:08:39.97
everything that he
did was an awareness that
00:08:40.00\00:08:43.45
prophecy was being
fulfilled, right, and as all
00:08:43.48\00:08:46.31
Adventists have believed
and still maintain that we are
00:08:46.34\00:08:49.04
living according to the
Bible in a period that could
00:08:49.07\00:08:52.41
be characterized as the
end time. We, it could be
00:08:52.44\00:08:56.20
100s of years but it's in
the great sweep of history,
00:08:56.23\00:08:59.63
right, this is the, the
time frame before the promised
00:08:59.66\00:09:04.25
return of Jesus Christ
and the setting of all of the
00:09:04.28\00:09:07.76
horrors of this world
and the sins and the errors,
00:09:07.79\00:09:11.76
setting of all of those
things straight for God's
00:09:11.79\00:09:13.68
eternal right. Yeah. So,
it really added a very unique
00:09:13.71\00:09:19.55
element to a constitutional
struggle but here prophecy
00:09:19.58\00:09:22.81
was being fulfilled and
it's worth mentioning for
00:09:22.84\00:09:26.00
everybody that's
watching this program but
00:09:26.21\00:09:27.32
particular those Seventh-day
Adventists that are that
00:09:27.35\00:09:30.04
are supporting us, that A
T Jones, not by coincidence
00:09:30.07\00:09:36.11
but by extension of
what he did at this time was
00:09:36.14\00:09:38.98
determined that his
Church needed to be revived
00:09:39.01\00:09:41.41
that they would be
a spiritual renewal,
00:09:41.44\00:09:44.18
and to this day there is
some dispute about you know
00:09:45.21\00:09:47.88
he really was promoting,
but as I look at it it is
00:09:47.91\00:09:51.18
very plain, he was calling
people to a very Biblically
00:09:51.21\00:09:54.02
based experientially
oriented revival, right,
00:09:54.05\00:09:57.86
to get to know their
Lord, to change their lives to
00:09:57.89\00:10:00.16
recognize what God
had done for them or what
00:10:00.19\00:10:03.15
they couldn't do for
themselves God have done
00:10:03.18\00:10:04.60
but now live the Holy
Life for preparation and get
00:10:04.63\00:10:08.01
serious and excited
about it, because these
00:10:08.04\00:10:10.35
constitutional
developmental threats to the
00:10:10.38\00:10:13.30
Constitutional Separations
of Church and State was
00:10:13.33\00:10:16.27
predicted in prophecy
and it meant that we were
00:10:16.30\00:10:19.28
right on the edge. In
retrospect he was slightly
00:10:19.31\00:10:22.13
wrong because he was
basing his views on a reading
00:10:22.16\00:10:26.91
of Revelation 13
that I subscribed to and
00:10:26.94\00:10:30.54
Revelation 13, tell
me what it says there,
00:10:30.57\00:10:34.10
I don't want to
talk fast to you know.
00:10:34.13\00:10:36.01
No, that's fine, go
ahead, I'll let you give that.
00:10:36.04\00:10:38.56
Revelation 13, by careful
analysis seems to indicate
00:10:38.59\00:10:43.66
that he is talking
about the United States,
00:10:43.69\00:10:45.73
a lamb like power that
arises out of the land and in
00:10:45.76\00:10:50.97
Biblical Prophecy the
land is separate from the,
00:10:51.00\00:10:54.21
most of these other
beasts came out of the sea
00:10:54.24\00:10:56.17
which is for peoples.
The land was sort of a blank
00:10:56.20\00:10:59.59
slate, the new nation. And
this lamb like docile beast,
00:10:59.62\00:11:03.59
but then in the middle of
that chapter which is clearly
00:11:03.62\00:11:06.12
talking about a
culminating development of all
00:11:06.15\00:11:10.07
these beasts and powers
and story of religious faith.
00:11:10.10\00:11:13.20
It says that this
beast then compels everybody
00:11:13.23\00:11:18.19
to worship the ancient
beasts, satanic power and
00:11:18.22\00:11:23.22
a false religion on
kind of a law that they
00:11:23.25\00:11:26.68
can't buy or sell and
then there is a rule against
00:11:26.71\00:11:29.99
anyone who takes this
mark and that's the classic
00:11:30.02\00:11:32.58
mark of the beast,
right, that most Christians
00:11:32.61\00:11:34.01
are aware of, right,
of the 666 and so on.
00:11:34.04\00:11:36.76
And Seventh-day
Adventists have long believed
00:11:36.79\00:11:38.66
the United States, the
leading country in advancing
00:11:38.69\00:11:42.61
religious freedom
will eventually turn
00:11:42.64\00:11:45.27
its back on that great
principal and use the power
00:11:45.30\00:11:48.07
of law to enforce some
sort of religious observance,
00:11:48.10\00:11:51.35
right, and that's
clearly always a marker of
00:11:51.38\00:11:53.56
Satan's concept, that force
and as you lead to it earlier.
00:11:53.59\00:11:57.47
You can pretty much tell
that it's out of line if force
00:11:57.50\00:12:00.52
is implied, right, you
don't have to look then what
00:12:00.55\00:12:02.56
doctrine they're
enforcing. Usually it is a wrong
00:12:02.59\00:12:05.81
doctrine but the main
fact that it's being enforced
00:12:05.84\00:12:08.67
you know that it's
coming from the wrong court.
00:12:08.70\00:12:10.66
From the wrong source, I
thought it was interesting
00:12:10.69\00:12:12.66
what you said about A.T.
Jones and how he was really
00:12:12.69\00:12:16.81
encouraging back to the
Bible, Bible you know Bible
00:12:16.84\00:12:19.73
study by the people,
yeah, because a lot of people
00:12:19.76\00:12:23.02
don't understand the
importance of that freedom if
00:12:23.05\00:12:25.91
they're not closely
reading their Bibles and
00:12:25.94\00:12:28.05
understanding the
prophecy that's rebuilt there.
00:12:28.08\00:12:30.20
Right, we'll be
back after a short break
00:12:30.23\00:12:33.34
and I'm cutting a little
bit early because after the
00:12:33.37\00:12:36.60
break before we come
back on camera I just want
00:12:36.63\00:12:39.02
to show a few seconds of
this video, it'll be near
00:12:39.05\00:12:43.35
the end where a little
discussion is given about
00:12:43.38\00:12:46.16
the role of A.T. Jones and
the follow off to his great
00:12:46.19\00:12:50.34
battle in Washington.
00:12:50.37\00:12:51.34
100 years, a long time to
do anything much less publish
00:12:59.51\00:13:04.16
a magazine, but
this year, Liberty, the
00:13:04.19\00:13:07.29
Seventh-day Adventist
voice of religious freedom
00:13:07.32\00:13:09.39
celebrates 100 years of
doing what it does best,
00:13:09.96\00:13:13.15
collecting, analyzing and
reporting the ebb and flow
00:13:13.18\00:13:16.94
of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:16.97\00:13:19.03
Issue after issue,
Liberty has taken on the tough
00:13:19.06\00:13:23.04
assignments, tracking
down threats to religious
00:13:23.07\00:13:25.44
freedom and exposing
the work of the devil
00:13:25.47\00:13:27.24
in every corner of
the globe, governmental
00:13:27.27\00:13:29.93
interference, personal
attacks, corporate assaults,
00:13:29.96\00:13:33.15
even religious
freedom issues to question
00:13:33.18\00:13:35.64
within the Church community
itself have been clearly
00:13:35.67\00:13:38.22
and honestly exposed.
Liberty exists for one
00:13:38.25\00:13:41.63
purpose, to help God's
people maintain that all
00:13:41.66\00:13:45.20
important separation
of Church and State while
00:13:45.23\00:13:48.02
recognizing the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:48.05\00:13:51.06
During the past
century Liberty has experienced
00:13:51.09\00:13:54.15
challenges of it's own,
but it remains on the job
00:13:54.18\00:13:57.36
thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line
00:13:57.39\00:14:00.49
of dedicated
Adventist editors, three of whom
00:14:00.52\00:14:02.78
represent almost half of
the publication's existence
00:14:02.81\00:14:05.23
and the foresight of a
little woman from New England.
00:14:05.26\00:14:08.36
100 years of struggle,
100 years of victories,
00:14:08.39\00:14:12.80
religious freedom isn't
just about political machines
00:14:12.83\00:14:16.25
and cultural prejudices, it's
about people, fighting for the
00:14:16.28\00:14:20.66
right to serve the God
they love as their hearts
00:14:20.69\00:14:23.76
and the Holy Spirit
dictates. Thanks to the prayers
00:14:23.79\00:14:27.34
and generous support
of Seventh-day Adventists
00:14:27.37\00:14:29.82
everywhere. Liberty will
continue to accomplish its
00:14:29.85\00:14:32.88
work of providing timely
information, spirit filled
00:14:32.91\00:14:35.66
inspiration, and heaven
sent encouragement to all
00:14:35.69\00:14:38.54
who long to live and
work in a world bound together
00:14:38.57\00:14:42.95
by the God ordained
bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:42.98\00:14:46.70
Welcome back to
The Liberty Insider,
00:14:55.16\00:14:56.47
before the break I
promised you that I would show
00:14:56.50\00:15:00.60
you a little bit of
that DVD featuring me,
00:15:00.63\00:15:04.11
I am sorry but giving
the story of A.T. Jones,
00:15:04.14\00:15:07.51
so let's just watch
maybe about a minute of it to
00:15:07.54\00:15:10.17
give you a little bit
of the flavor of what you
00:15:10.20\00:15:12.14
can see on this
seven part series.
00:15:12.17\00:15:14.30
Joseph H. Waggoner,
grew on extensive and
00:15:15.68\00:15:19.01
varied experience in
activist journalism in 1886,
00:15:19.04\00:15:22.84
when as the first
editor of the American Sentinel
00:15:23.49\00:15:25.89
Magazine, he took the
lead in the Adventist campaign
00:15:25.92\00:15:29.21
to defend liberty
against what he called a program
00:15:29.24\00:15:32.72
to nationalize Christianity.
A program to establish
00:15:32.75\00:15:37.64
a legal foundation at the
federal level for legislation
00:15:37.67\00:15:42.02
enforcing Christian morality.
A year and a half later
00:15:42.05\00:15:46.81
though as was common
in the Adventist course
00:15:46.84\00:15:49.39
during that era, he was
sent to a new and far distant
00:15:49.42\00:15:52.72
field of labor in Europe.
And it was there that his
00:15:52.75\00:15:56.79
labors came to a sudden
end when he died of aneurysm
00:15:56.82\00:15:59.81
in 1889. It would be left
to the young associate editors,
00:15:59.84\00:16:04.43
Joseph's son Ellet J. Waggoner
and especially Alonzo T.
00:16:04.46\00:16:09.30
Jones, to lead the
Adventists in the cause
00:16:09.33\00:16:12.54
of religious liberty.
It was a cause that would
00:16:12.57\00:16:15.38
take them to
Washington DC and a show down
00:16:15.41\00:16:18.35
with the Christian
Lobby on Capital Hill.
00:16:18.38\00:16:22.03
Well, I don't know
if that was an academy
00:16:25.25\00:16:26.51
award performance but I
am quite adamant that this
00:16:26.54\00:16:29.83
is a story the people
need to know and you can
00:16:29.86\00:16:31.83
get that DVD if you contact
us we'll be happy to send
00:16:31.86\00:16:35.48
it to you. Well Melissa,
let's talk a little bit more
00:16:35.51\00:16:38.24
about Liberty Magazine,
okay, we're in regardless to
00:16:38.27\00:16:42.03
when this is actually
shown. We are not too far past
00:16:42.06\00:16:46.33
our campaign time
which is when we ask for help
00:16:46.36\00:16:50.42
in getting out more and
more of these magazines,
00:16:50.45\00:16:52.70
right, right, how
can people help us?
00:16:52.73\00:16:54.76
Well, we've got a great
resource with our website
00:16:54.79\00:16:58.33
and you can visit our
website, first of all if you are
00:16:58.36\00:17:01.44
not familiar with the
magazine itself we offer the
00:17:01.47\00:17:04.47
complete issue including
the illustration which are
00:17:04.50\00:17:07.39
really such a compliment
to the articles online
00:17:07.42\00:17:10.61
and we have an archive
there, it's at least a decade,
00:17:10.64\00:17:14.68
it goes back at least
decade and so I would encourage
00:17:14.71\00:17:17.58
people to go to
the website, that's
00:17:17.61\00:17:18.96
www.libertymagazine.org and
take a look at the magazine,
00:17:18.99\00:17:25.13
hopefully you be, you'll be
impressed with the articles,
00:17:25.16\00:17:30.29
I know that you will, that
they will and then there is an
00:17:30.32\00:17:33.75
opportunity if they'd
like to support to give online,
00:17:33.78\00:17:36.96
you know secure giving
options there online. There
00:17:36.99\00:17:40.02
is also instruction as to
if they feel more comfortable
00:17:40.05\00:17:43.13
mailing a check, they can
do that, our mailing address
00:17:43.16\00:17:46.46
is there as well. Certainly
we always solicit prayers
00:17:46.49\00:17:51.27
for support as well. Sure.
But going online and giving
00:17:51.30\00:17:56.15
online or sending
something through the mail
00:17:56.18\00:17:58.89
we'd be so appreciative,
we consider this our campaign
00:17:58.92\00:18:02.79
season just to
explain to our viewers,
00:18:02.82\00:18:04.97
because the majority of
our subscriptions that are
00:18:05.00\00:18:09.01
sponsored subscriptions
begin with us with the May,
00:18:09.04\00:18:11.67
June issue of
Liberty Magazine. We can,
00:18:11.70\00:18:14.32
we can begin a subscription
anytime but the majority
00:18:14.35\00:18:16.58
of them. That's the
beginning of our basic cycle.
00:18:16.61\00:18:19.28
Of our cycle right, actually
show them a copy of the May,
00:18:19.31\00:18:23.39
June issue, this is
one we're very proud of and
00:18:23.42\00:18:25.74
we'll be taking and
giving away at the Seventh-day
00:18:25.77\00:18:28.62
Adventist Church general
conference meeting in Atlanta
00:18:28.65\00:18:32.40
later this summer. The world
convocation every five years.
00:18:32.43\00:18:35.27
Right, right. Church leaders
from all around the world come
00:18:35.30\00:18:38.23
together to elect if
necessary a new president
00:18:38.26\00:18:40.86
and made your
leadership and of course people
00:18:40.89\00:18:45.44
it's like a big camp
meeting at that time.
00:18:45.47\00:18:47.37
Right. We want these
people to know what we're doing
00:18:47.40\00:18:50.00
for them it's true, but for
the larger audience of people
00:18:50.03\00:18:54.15
who are concerned
about religious liberty.
00:18:54.18\00:18:55.64
So this, I think this
is very representative.
00:18:55.67\00:18:57.95
Yes, it's a great issue
to start a subscription.
00:18:57.98\00:19:00.07
My wife always gets
after me for even hinting that
00:19:00.10\00:19:03.43
I watch movies, which I
don't formally, but you know
00:19:03.46\00:19:06.55
when you travel you see
them on the plane and in
00:19:06.58\00:19:09.05
motel rooms sometimes
and years and years ago I saw
00:19:09.08\00:19:11.90
2001 Space Odyssey, it
was sort of an iconic science
00:19:11.93\00:19:16.49
fiction film that nobody
understood. In fact, be honest
00:19:16.52\00:19:20.54
I saw it a college where I
attended years ago and then
00:19:20.57\00:19:24.76
the follow up was 2010 as
I remember the title on that
00:19:24.79\00:19:27.64
was the year we make
contact. Okay. So here in 2010
00:19:27.67\00:19:32.53
in this issue, we've
picked up the imagery from that,
00:19:32.56\00:19:35.55
little space baby looking
and you can't see on the screen,
00:19:35.58\00:19:38.49
but many looking at
many of the problems,
00:19:38.52\00:19:41.30
the AntiSemitic activity
of Hitler and other regimes
00:19:41.33\00:19:45.88
at the hints of the
abortion issue and so on.
00:19:45.91\00:19:49.29
But just some of the problems
of our roiling world at the
00:19:49.32\00:19:52.68
moment. Right. And the
title here is not the year we
00:19:52.71\00:19:56.44
make contact, but the
informed conscience. Right.
00:19:56.47\00:19:58.96
And we want our
leaders to be, our readers who
00:19:58.99\00:20:02.48
are also leaders. Yes. To
be informed about what the
00:20:02.51\00:20:05.43
real issues are. You
know it's interesting,
00:20:05.46\00:20:07.43
that's an interesting
title the informed conscience,
00:20:07.46\00:20:10.20
because we all think
they are, we all have our
00:20:10.23\00:20:13.30
conscience. Needs to be
taught doesn't it? It needs
00:20:13.33\00:20:16.24
to be taught, absolutely,
it shouldn't be something
00:20:16.27\00:20:18.47
that's based on what we
see on television or you know
00:20:18.50\00:20:21.04
in Hollywood or you know
what we see down the street,
00:20:21.07\00:20:25.26
it should be based on the
principles that we learned
00:20:25.29\00:20:27.42
in the Bible. Well, it
actually refers specifically
00:20:27.45\00:20:30.59
to an article, yeah, let's
go to this issue by this guy
00:20:30.62\00:20:34.14
Giovanni he is with, I
wanted to get the magazine
00:20:34.17\00:20:38.70
right, Leadership
Journal, which is associated
00:20:38.73\00:20:42.78
with Christianity Today,
but he brought out in this
00:20:42.81\00:20:45.04
article something
that very few people seem
00:20:45.07\00:20:47.28
to realize that many
Christians and I am one of them,
00:20:47.31\00:20:51.08
are troubled by the
whole abortion situation,
00:20:51.11\00:20:53.70
it's I think encouraging a
diminishing of the respectful
00:20:53.73\00:20:57.65
life in our society. They're
troubled by that and almost
00:20:57.68\00:21:01.48
treated as a litmus issue
political, right, involvement,
00:21:01.51\00:21:04.71
right. But they're not
troubled as troubled torture
00:21:04.74\00:21:09.81
about the death penalty
and so on and he was calling
00:21:09.84\00:21:13.44
for an informed conscience,
you need to be consistent,
00:21:13.47\00:21:15.60
yeah, and it's not that we
particularly have a stance,
00:21:15.63\00:21:18.93
I mean I have views,
but you know we don't have
00:21:18.96\00:21:20.96
a direct stand say on
the death penalty and that.
00:21:20.99\00:21:23.41
But we do try to
present a moral waterfront
00:21:23.44\00:21:26.97
and I think people need
to think it through it might
00:21:27.00\00:21:28.81
just be that they have
reflexly supported certain
00:21:28.84\00:21:32.63
Christian groups that
are opposing abortion and are
00:21:32.66\00:21:34.95
reflexly going
with the crowd who,
00:21:34.98\00:21:37.63
who is you know string up
the terrorist, fry them alive,
00:21:37.66\00:21:40.36
get the information out,
right, right, and they don't
00:21:40.39\00:21:42.37
realize I think that
there is some times a
00:21:42.40\00:21:43.95
contradiction of morality.
Yeah, I thought it was such
00:21:43.98\00:21:47.06
an interesting piece,
and there was a place that we
00:21:47.09\00:21:49.37
are able to include it, I
think the point is interesting
00:21:49.40\00:21:53.00
because and a good one
that maybe a lot of people
00:21:53.03\00:21:56.78
don't consider because
you think of you know the
00:21:56.81\00:21:59.38
innocence and the purity
of a new born and of course
00:21:59.41\00:22:03.08
you want to, you know that
life is sacred but we're all
00:22:03.11\00:22:06.41
sacred you know and as
we develop through our lives
00:22:06.44\00:22:09.67
we become more and
more sin tainted and but
00:22:09.70\00:22:12.63
you know thank goodness
Christ still sees us as that
00:22:12.66\00:22:16.62
innocent and pure just as
important or just as vital.
00:22:16.65\00:22:20.09
And so, though we may
have done unconscionable
00:22:20.12\00:22:23.64
things or you know just
any of us in our day-to-day
00:22:23.67\00:22:28.35
living you know make
mistakes, we have inherent
00:22:28.38\00:22:31.10
with as a creature.
Right, we have inherent with.
00:22:31.13\00:22:33.41
A creature of creator,
yeah I thought that was
00:22:33.44\00:22:35.17
beautiful, and in a secular
way that this is what the
00:22:35.20\00:22:37.79
constitution holds up.
Most of the religious liberty
00:22:37.82\00:22:40.36
cases it's not
necessary to prove that you have
00:22:40.39\00:22:42.46
a correct religious
viewpoint, it's just that
00:22:42.49\00:22:45.15
it's a conscience viewpoint,
right, as a human being
00:22:45.18\00:22:48.53
endowed with us, what
is at the declaration of
00:22:48.56\00:22:51.37
independence, the inalienable
right, inalienable rights,
00:22:51.40\00:22:53.62
yes, by your very
existence as a human being,
00:22:53.65\00:22:56.63
they have to be respected
and the deepest expression
00:22:56.66\00:23:01.00
of our humanity really is
spirituality. It's interesting
00:23:01.03\00:23:04.57
contradiction there. One
other thing I wanted to bring
00:23:04.60\00:23:06.81
out to our viewers
again back on the cover 2010
00:23:06.84\00:23:10.37
is the year we live in,
but we're rapidly approaching
00:23:10.40\00:23:14.26
some sequences that are
significant to more then
00:23:14.29\00:23:18.31
just Christian in 2012, I
think the Aztec calendar by
00:23:18.34\00:23:22.98
those that study it comes
to an end. Or is it I think
00:23:23.01\00:23:26.91
the Mayan calendar too,
I listen to a radio program
00:23:26.94\00:23:34.63
now and then, I think
it's Family Radio and I noticed
00:23:34.66\00:23:37.38
the man that features
there, who had some views
00:23:37.41\00:23:39.95
that I differ with
him, some that I appreciate
00:23:39.98\00:23:42.36
and I love the fact that
on that program they read
00:23:42.39\00:23:44.47
the Bible a lot, but
I've noticed that he is saying
00:23:44.50\00:23:46.74
that May of next
year Christ returns,
00:23:46.77\00:23:48.76
and I listen to Ahmadinejad
the President of Iran
00:23:48.79\00:23:53.93
and his recent visit here
and as usual he was talking
00:23:53.96\00:23:57.29
about the coming of
the Mahdi, that's expected
00:23:57.32\00:24:01.13
immediately and he goes
through it all in different
00:24:01.16\00:24:04.68
believe systems, different
fractions, some political
00:24:05.77\00:24:08.32
but mostly religious, sort
of have an end point coming
00:24:08.35\00:24:11.09
up very quickly and I am
not suggesting that we know
00:24:11.12\00:24:14.42
you know the Bible is very
planned, Jesus said the day
00:24:14.45\00:24:16.91
and the hour that he
comes no man knows, right,
00:24:16.94\00:24:19.33
although he also told the
pharisees that you can see
00:24:19.36\00:24:21.79
the situation, you know
the season is coming upon
00:24:21.82\00:24:24.94
you the change, yes,
something is brewing but I think
00:24:24.97\00:24:29.01
religious liberty is going
to be very important in these
00:24:29.04\00:24:31.91
next few years where
people's expectations going
00:24:31.94\00:24:34.53
to sort of be rushed ahead,
this is their end point and
00:24:34.56\00:24:37.52
it will be a time of
stress both religiously and we
00:24:37.55\00:24:41.18
know with the oil spill
continuing that the natural
00:24:42.45\00:24:46.04
calamities continue,
the antagonisms between
00:24:46.07\00:24:48.99
the nations continue, and
this is a time of as never
00:24:49.02\00:24:51.91
before that we need to
protect religious freedom.
00:24:51.94\00:24:54.73
Yeah, absolutely, I mean as
a Christian it should always
00:24:54.76\00:24:58.18
something, it should
always be part of our informed
00:24:58.21\00:25:00.45
conscience but I agree
with you that just looking
00:25:00.48\00:25:04.65
at the events that are
going on now in these days
00:25:04.68\00:25:07.08
where really you know
there is the popular phrase
00:25:07.11\00:25:09.25
now, the tipping point and
we seem to be at that tipping
00:25:09.28\00:25:12.63
point, yes, in our
earth's history and you now
00:25:12.66\00:25:15.92
we're called, we're mandated
by Christ to share his love
00:25:15.95\00:25:22.46
with everyone that
you know that is possible.
00:25:22.49\00:25:24.85
So not just for our own
salvation, but for those
00:25:24.88\00:25:28.08
we should you know
the rest of the world that
00:25:28.11\00:25:30.56
doesn't yet know Christ
we need to take advantage
00:25:30.59\00:25:33.20
of the religious
freedom that we have now.
00:25:33.23\00:25:34.92
And you know some
people have almost thought
00:25:34.95\00:25:37.49
it's perverse, but if there
is someone who doesn't want
00:25:37.52\00:25:39.97
to know religion we will give
them that right, absolutely,
00:25:40.00\00:25:44.14
we will protect their
right to be willfully ignored if
00:25:44.17\00:25:46.23
you want, we have to respect
them again as a creature,
00:25:46.26\00:25:49.82
a creator that they
may not recognize, but
00:25:49.85\00:25:52.57
religious freedom is really
to allow you to workout your,
00:25:52.60\00:25:56.06
Bible says workout
your salvation with fear and
00:25:56.09\00:25:58.47
trembling, but work it
out yourself as negotiation
00:25:58.50\00:26:02.49
with either with God or
you've negotiated in a way,
00:26:02.52\00:26:06.02
right, right, but we
can't interfere in that.
00:26:06.05\00:26:07.89
Absolutely, it has to
be an individual's choice,
00:26:09.29\00:26:11.90
however well meaning
someone else dictates maybe
00:26:11.93\00:26:15.58
it's still not that individual
conscience being honored.
00:26:15.61\00:26:18.61
Exactly, I mean that's
what we're emphasizing in every
00:26:19.17\00:26:21.12
issue yeah well, Lincoln
and I were talking yesterday,
00:26:21.15\00:26:25.03
we both felt so fortunate
to be involved with Liberty
00:26:25.06\00:26:28.43
Magazine and it seems
like the time just really flown
00:26:28.46\00:26:31.53
for both of us in
our individual roles.
00:26:31.56\00:26:33.78
I encourage you if
you haven't, even if you,
00:26:33.81\00:26:36.30
if it's been a few
months or years, give Liberty
00:26:36.33\00:26:40.37
Magazine a look,
libertymagazine.org
00:26:40.40\00:26:43.55
is the website, I encourage
you to go there and visit
00:26:43.58\00:26:46.41
and sign up for a
subscription and of course
00:26:46.44\00:26:50.36
we always appreciate
the online donations.
00:26:50.39\00:26:52.75
A few years ago there
was a song I think sung by
00:26:54.47\00:26:56.83
Neil Diamond or
composed by Neil Diamond,
00:26:56.86\00:27:00.28
where he sang, the story
of my life, it began the day
00:27:00.31\00:27:04.77
you came and it
ended the day you left.
00:27:04.80\00:27:06.56
With Liberty Magazine,
it's a story that predates the
00:27:06.59\00:27:11.22
magazine itself, religious
liberty is something that
00:27:11.25\00:27:14.01
goes way back. It began
with Jesus, with the Lord,
00:27:14.04\00:27:19.83
the creation of the world
and the principles that he set
00:27:19.86\00:27:22.50
in motion and it will not
end, but it will come to a
00:27:22.53\00:27:25.95
fruition when this
world's history is over.
00:27:25.98\00:27:28.67
Fruition when this
world's history is over.
00:27:28.70\00:27:29.67
In the meantime, we
need to argue vigorously,
00:27:29.68\00:27:32.96
vociferously if necessary,
Martin Luther showed that for
00:27:32.99\00:27:36.15
religious freedom. It's
not something that can be taken
00:27:36.18\00:27:40.00
for granted. As my wife
often says, it take two to tango
00:27:40.03\00:27:43.77
and there is always
someone at fault when something
00:27:43.80\00:27:47.67
bad happens, in religious
liberty, if it disappears
00:27:47.70\00:27:50.56
it will be our
fault if it disappears,
00:27:50.59\00:27:53.48
it needs to be
actively protected,
00:27:53.51\00:27:55.76
actively ensured that
it exists. We do that,
00:27:56.58\00:28:00.08
the story not of our
life, but the story of religious
00:28:00.90\00:28:03.82
freedom will be a
growing and grand one
00:28:03.85\00:28:05.95
culminating in the
total liberation of in itself.
00:28:05.98\00:28:09.61
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:10.95\00:28:13.35