Welcome to The Liberty Insider.
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This is the program
that brings you up-to-date
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news, views,
information and discussion on
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religious liberty
issues. My name is Lincoln Steed
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editor of liberty
magazine and my guest on the
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program is Dr. Butt
Beach. Welcome Butt,
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you've got a long
strong and experience
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background on religious
liberty for many years.
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You led the
religious liberty department
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at our world headquarters of the
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Seventh Adventist
Church in Washington DC.
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So, you know, you know
back to front, inside out,
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and up and down on this
topic and I'm sure likely
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you realize the religious
liberty is inextricably
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linked in the
Seventh Day Adventist
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mind and rationale
with prophetic developments
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and signs of religious
stress at the end of time
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and central to that
is really the expectation
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of some sort of
Sunday Law a requirement
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that everybody
worships along the same day.
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Now I want to ask
you that do you see
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early warning
signs that perhaps that
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sort of thing is happening now?
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While we've got, we've
seen many early warning
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signs in the past especially
in the late 19th century,
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where it was a
central discussion in American
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religious life, the
question of having Sunday
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kind of supported
by legal legislation.
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That's really what gave
rise to liberty magazine.
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Exactly and liberty
magazine took a strong stand
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against that trend and
so forth and since then
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of course there has
been a tendency basically
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I think over the
year in United States
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and many other countries
of having actually less
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on the loss because
of commercial interest,
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it's not so much
sometimes we don't like to take
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credit for it to
saying well we have into this
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and others they don't
that have observe another day
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should have the
rights to be protected
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in that observance
and therefore we've been
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successful in
stopping legislation supporting
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establishing Sunday as
a kind of a day worship
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for the whole nation.
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But the commercial
interests are very strong.
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While secularization, I think
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Yeah, let me tell you.
increase in secularization.
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So I tell people
sometimes that in certain
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instances the
pendulum of Religious
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Liberty of Sunday
law legislation has in
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some places been
swinging away from Sunday
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laws, but of course
the image of the pendulum
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is one that the in
pendulum swing this way.
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It's got from one
way and comes back.
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Eventually the
pendulums swings back and
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sometimes we see some
swinging back you have
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several examples of that
in different parts of the
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world, but in Unites
States so far I would say
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the pendulum as far
as practical implication
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is swinging away
from Sunday laws mostly
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because of
commercial interests people want
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to be able to do what
they want to do on Sunday,
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they want to have
their football games,
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they want to go and go
to the super big stores,
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the malls and they
want to be free to do that
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and they make
more money that way
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and so for
example when I moved to
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Montgomery
county, where I think he
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This is in Maryland.
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Where the General
Conference Headquarter
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is located back in
1980. In Montgomery County,
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there was a Sunday
law that did not allow the
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malls to be opened on Sunday
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today they are all open.
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This was the blue law
respect out at Sunday.
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When I used to live
in England years ago
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everything was closed
practically on Sunday.
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A few little
store maybe a bakery
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and a few other for
special permits were opened,
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every things were closed.
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Today, in England the
malls and the some other
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big stores are
open not all day so far
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it's you know about five
or six hours during Sunday
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they are open. So that way,
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but on the other hand in
this Germany just recently
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there has been an effort
to strengthen Sunday laws.
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Yeah this is in
Secular Europe right.
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In secular Europe.
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That's the great already there.
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Interesting because of
course they look at it as
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Sunday laws being
something to protect
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the working man
from being exploited
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and having day off
that doesn't mean that
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working man will be
going to church necessarily
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probably they didn't
want, but he will be free
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to do what he wants,
he maybe go out in nature
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and play golf or
whatever it might be so on.
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Now Germany is not
the only Country there has
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been several
lately in Europe with it
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Or in Germany for
example Germany past some
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years ago a laws as I
recall is allowing stores
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to be opened 10 Sundays a year.
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So the rest of the
Sundays, which mean 42
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or whatever it is
the store had to be close
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on Sunday and they
had 10 and now there has
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been an effort in
Germany recently to say well
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that's too much 10
days. So now as I understand
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it in German legislation
just recently at the end
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of 2009 they
have decided they only
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allow 5 Sundays
a year to be open.
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On the other hand
Germany does allow restaurants
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as I understand it
to choose their own day
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to be closed they
have to be closed one day
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during the week,
but they can be closed
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on a Monday or
Tuesday or Sunday or Saturday.
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That's not particularly
religious requirement.
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Yeah it's say mostly
of them say not really
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religion even though
you have to say that the
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strong churches the big churches
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are in Germany will be Luther.
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Lutheran church and
the or Evangelical Church
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as it's called sometimes and the
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Roman Catholic
Church have also been
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pushing for more protection
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Well this is what I
wanted, on Suday, to through in
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on this you are
explaining social changes
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in a secularization
that is the push back
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comes on Sunday requirements.
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It cannot be material
that run for example recently
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and restating it Sunday
doctrine sit there, there
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should be some
legal requirements
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or encouraging
members to push for legal
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protection of Sunday,
which is fine to a point,
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but you think that
there is a political push from
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Rome and perhaps
other churches for something
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that the secular society
sees it's own logic toward,
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but here there is
a religious agenda.
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Now let's say there is
it's true that beneath the
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secular agenda, which
is the, which is on top
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what the legislatures,
the parliaments. Sure.
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Are discussing and the
governments beneath there
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is a religious effort on
the part of some religions,
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some churches who see
few of their members in
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church on a given
Sunday thinking that
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well if we had some
kind of a legislation that
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would require people
not to be working on the
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Sunday, we would have
more people in our Churches
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I personally think
that, that will not be
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too successful because
people are if those even
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those they favor in
the legislatures and in the
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parliaments the Sunday
laws are not favoring it,
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so that people can go to
church, but so they can be
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free from work on
that day and I would expect
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most of them to be if
secular society stays the
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same to be simply
going out and going to the
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soccer game or going on
the picnic or going on a
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trip by the lake or in
the mountains or whatever
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it might be or just
staying at home sleeping,
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but they will not I
think necessarily go to church
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because of that, but
by the way you mentioned,
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I don't want to
take too much time here,
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but I think it's an
important issue you've
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mentioned that the pope
and his pastoral letters
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D. S. Dominic,
which you talks about
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That was 1996 is our
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In which he advocated
the concept that Sunday
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or rest on Sunday it
should be protected for the
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working man. So the
working man should have
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the right not to work on
Sunday by and that could be
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Well he was quite
specific he says that believe
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is everywhere should
work for legislation to
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protect the Sunday.
Now what the language you
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are using there,
which was employed in
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D. S. Dominic is
quite obvious in the
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what's the document
free days, no, no, the recent
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document on faith
and charity Caritas and
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Yeah, I got it now that was John
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that's a front was the
first. This is Benedict
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I think the first in
seculorum or you might
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call it a pastoral
letter that Pope Benedict
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put out. Yes not too
within the last 12 months
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Yeah And it's a comprehensive
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application of a very
good biblical principle,
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let me, that
throughout every aspect of the
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society the principle of love,
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charity and
religious principles should be
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inculcated into
business operations into social
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structures and so
on. Now he gave that
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language them.
Now, let me mention
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you one thing because
I think it's an important
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aspect and many lot
of people don't know
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about this. When I
read the Pope's letter,
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D. S. Dominic in
which he advocated maybe
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somebody should
been protected by legally
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Legally protected. Arrangements,
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I wrote a letter to the
Vatican about that issue
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and said I can
understand I agree that a person
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should be free not
to work on this day
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of rest Sunday for
which is the day for the
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most majority then I
raise the question with the
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Vatican how about the
rights of people that are
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observing other day be
it Saturday, be it, be it
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maybe Friday for
muslims even though for
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muslims Friday is not
very that much of a day
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of not working it's
really a day of going to the
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mosque simply, but then
maybe after that they can
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do what they please go
back to work or whatever.
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Which is often
true with catholic
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It's there, but
still yeah, it's still,
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it's an important day
Friday for them I said
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it should that be a
protected right also
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and I got no answer
for them many months,
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but after few
months I got an answer from
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the Bishop of the
secretary of the Vatican Council
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for Christian unity.
Bishop do pray who has by
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the way since then
died and who was a friend
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of mine writing
back and showing me
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and saying well I'm
sorry for the delay,
00:11:01.37\00:11:03.44
but I had to consult
with various dicasteries
00:11:03.47\00:11:07.51
ministries of the
Vatican to see what the position
00:11:07.54\00:11:10.33
was and he answered and
said yes that should also
00:11:10.36\00:11:13.23
be a protected right
and that's an important
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for them in other
words they realize that
00:11:16.20\00:11:18.66
in protecting Sunday
it goes against religious
00:11:18.69\00:11:24.42
liberty if we
don't protect the rights
00:11:24.45\00:11:27.02
of people that
observes another day.
00:11:27.05\00:11:28.83
Well of course I'm
glad they realize that,
00:11:28.86\00:11:31.50
that is the
principle of religious liberty.
00:11:31.53\00:11:33.33
That's the right of
all people to worship
00:11:33.36\00:11:35.21
in a way that the
conscious describes where
00:11:35.24\00:11:37.87
God listen whether I
think they are right or not.
00:11:37.90\00:11:39.70
But I Is the right to be wrong
00:11:39.73\00:11:41.41
That's right exactly That
to be protected in that and
00:11:41.44\00:11:43.90
And I personally
think of ours as a religious
00:11:43.93\00:11:46.69
liberty advocate
that it is not becoming
00:11:46.72\00:11:49.43
and it's not helpful
really too much for churches
00:11:50.00\00:11:53.47
to expect the state
to go and protect people
00:11:53.50\00:11:58.27
and encourage people
to go to church that is
00:11:58.30\00:12:01.04
something that they
should do because of
00:12:01.07\00:12:02.66
their conscious,
because of their belief,
00:12:02.83\00:12:04.55
and because of the
fellowship of the church,
00:12:04.58\00:12:06.84
but it shouldn't be
something that the state
00:12:06.87\00:12:08.64
should kind of be pushing for,
00:12:08.67\00:12:10.56
it's not the duty of the state.
00:12:11.11\00:12:12.20
No not at all in
fact as you know very well
00:12:12.23\00:12:16.34
and we keep reminding
our viewers in leadership
00:12:16.37\00:12:19.23
to a liberty magazine
it's the separation of
00:12:19.26\00:12:21.72
churches state, exactly,
the best enables continue
00:12:21.75\00:12:24.42
religious
freedom. After the break,
00:12:24.45\00:12:27.30
I want to come
back and we'll discuss
00:12:27.33\00:12:30.72
a little bit further
this issue of the dynamic
00:12:30.75\00:12:34.01
of incipient Sunday laws
00:12:34.04\00:12:35.95
and where we are
going prophetically
00:12:36.33\00:12:38.62
and how we relate
this to religious liberty.
00:12:38.65\00:12:40.38
100 years a long
time to do anything
00:12:49.45\00:12:52.93
much less publish a magazine,
00:12:52.96\00:12:54.75
but this year liberty
the Seventh Day Adventist
00:12:55.28\00:12:58.43
Voice of religious
freedom celebrates 100 years
00:12:58.46\00:13:01.78
of doing what it does best.
00:13:01.81\00:13:03.31
Collecting,
analyzing and reporting the
00:13:03.34\00:13:06.35
add and flow of
religious expression around the
00:13:06.38\00:13:08.82
world. Issue after
issue, liberty has taken
00:13:08.85\00:13:12.40
on the tough assignments
tracking down threads
00:13:12.43\00:13:14.89
to religious freedom
and exposing the work of the
00:13:14.92\00:13:16.95
devil in every
corner of the globe.
00:13:16.98\00:13:19.10
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:19.87\00:13:22.07
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:13:22.43\00:13:25.09
sequestered within
in the church community
00:13:25.12\00:13:26.69
itself have been
clearly and honesty exposed.
00:13:26.72\00:13:29.68
Liberty exists for
one purpose to help God's
00:13:30.63\00:13:33.79
people maintain that
all the important separation
00:13:33.82\00:13:36.49
of church in state.
Well recognizing the dangers
00:13:36.52\00:13:39.58
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:39.61\00:13:41.23
During the past
century, liberty has experienced
00:13:41.76\00:13:44.33
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:13:44.36\00:13:47.39
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line
00:13:48.05\00:13:50.67
of dedicated
Adventist editors, three of whom
00:13:50.70\00:13:52.77
represent almost half of
the publications existence
00:13:52.80\00:13:55.28
and the foresight
of a little woman from
00:13:55.70\00:13:57.91
new England. 100
years of struggle,
00:13:57.94\00:14:00.67
100 years of
victories, religious freedom
00:14:01.10\00:14:04.21
isn't just about
political machines
00:14:04.24\00:14:06.46
and cultural prejudices,
it's about people fighting
00:14:06.49\00:14:10.38
for the right to serve
that God they love as their
00:14:10.41\00:14:13.46
hearts and the
Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:13.49\00:14:15.96
Thanks to the
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00:14:16.26\00:14:18.33
of Seventh Day
Adventist everywhere.
00:14:18.36\00:14:20.41
Liberty will continue
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00:14:20.84\00:14:23.17
of providing timely
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00:14:23.20\00:14:25.62
inspiration, and
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00:14:25.65\00:14:28.12
to all who long to
live and work in a world
00:14:28.15\00:14:32.06
bound together by the God
00:14:32.09\00:14:33.83
or dane bonds of
religious freedom.
00:14:33.86\00:14:36.83
Welcome back to
The Liberty Insider
00:14:42.80\00:14:44.59
before the break
those of you that were
00:14:44.62\00:14:46.93
watching we
would discussing with
00:14:46.96\00:14:49.55
Dr. Butt Beach. We
were discussing the
00:14:49.58\00:14:52.77
what some people
picked up on movements
00:14:53.74\00:14:55.68
towards some sort
of Sunday if not our
00:14:55.71\00:14:58.77
legislation protection
of Sunday observance in
00:14:58.80\00:15:01.80
Secular Europe,
which is little shocking
00:15:01.83\00:15:04.29
to some people.
Well religious force is a
00:15:04.32\00:15:07.77
pushing back and
we see evidence the
00:15:07.80\00:15:09.77
Catholic Church
is asserting itself
00:15:10.29\00:15:11.92
as never before there
is an undeniable secularity
00:15:11.95\00:15:15.09
in Europe isn't it?
Something that maybe
00:15:15.12\00:15:16.65
we can discuss is
fairly recently there was
00:15:16.68\00:15:19.53
an issue involving
the display of crucifixes
00:15:19.56\00:15:22.36
in Italy. Tell our
viewers about that.
00:15:22.39\00:15:26.19
At the prevent
time, if you go to Italy
00:15:26.47\00:15:28.17
and Italian
schools you'll see in many
00:15:28.78\00:15:31.98
classrooms are
crucifix on the wall,
00:15:32.01\00:15:33.93
you would see it
maybe in hospitals and
00:15:34.45\00:15:36.92
government
hospitals and type of place.
00:15:36.95\00:15:38.61
They were in Catholic Italy
00:15:38.64\00:15:39.83
that's almost
culture like on this.
00:15:39.86\00:15:41.94
There is no doubt that
the Italy is a majority
00:15:41.97\00:15:44.18
catholic country.
I would say maybe 80%
00:15:44.21\00:15:47.13
of whatever it is of
the population is associated
00:15:47.16\00:15:50.05
one way or another
with the Roman Catholic
00:15:50.08\00:15:52.14
Church because that
doesn't mean of course
00:15:52.17\00:15:53.52
that they faithfully
go to church practice
00:15:53.55\00:15:56.15
in fact most males
in Italy are especially
00:15:56.53\00:15:58.86
rarely go to church
they may go you know
00:15:59.96\00:16:02.28
at their they
probably be there at their
00:16:02.31\00:16:04.90
Baptism presumably
and have much to say
00:16:04.93\00:16:07.18
about it, they
go for the weddings
00:16:08.92\00:16:09.89
and they go to
their funerals and then
00:16:09.90\00:16:11.59
between some event
they will go to church
00:16:11.62\00:16:15.48
maybe 3, 4, 5 %
of the population
00:16:15.51\00:16:18.08
go to church on a
given Sunday so on
00:16:18.11\00:16:21.43
so it's that's a
very secular county,
00:16:21.46\00:16:23.21
but in the schools
there is crucifixes well.
00:16:23.24\00:16:26.21
The European
Court which is under the
00:16:26.24\00:16:30.67
influence of
European secularization maybe
00:16:30.70\00:16:33.23
more and some of the
national courts passed
00:16:33.26\00:16:36.18
a decision recently posing this
00:16:36.21\00:16:40.10
and telling the
Italians that they are no longer
00:16:40.48\00:16:43.19
That they were
doing the crucifix
00:16:43.22\00:16:44.19
Allow to have crucifixes because
00:16:44.20\00:16:45.71
This is in the
schools particularly
00:16:45.74\00:16:47.94
In the schools because
this was seen as something
00:16:47.97\00:16:51.15
supporting the Christian
religion and the people
00:16:51.18\00:16:55.89
that are not christian
maybe secularists maybe
00:16:55.92\00:16:58.87
their maybe Jews, maybe Hindus,
00:16:58.90\00:17:02.06
maybe whatever even protestants
00:17:02.09\00:17:04.51
who don't use
crucifix they may use a cross,
00:17:04.54\00:17:06.83
but not a crucifix so
on they fell that their
00:17:06.86\00:17:10.18
secular their
children are secondary citizens
00:17:10.21\00:17:13.61
in that schools and
are being inculcated by the
00:17:13.64\00:17:17.34
principles of the
Roman Catholic Church
00:17:17.37\00:17:18.93
and so that
court decided that was
00:17:18.96\00:17:21.97
unconstitutional in
a way in the European
00:17:22.25\00:17:24.96
union for them to
do that and of course
00:17:24.99\00:17:28.01
the Italian Church and
some Italian government
00:17:28.04\00:17:31.45
another up an arms
about it, but at the present
00:17:31.48\00:17:34.21
time that is what the
highest court has decided.
00:17:34.24\00:17:37.21
Yeah well I remember
reading the report on it
00:17:37.24\00:17:38.90
and you say there up an arms,
00:17:38.93\00:17:40.76
but I haven't heard the
reaction is there a real
00:17:40.79\00:17:43.14
push back from
the Catholic Church.
00:17:43.17\00:17:44.77
This is an attack
on there, their home.
00:17:44.80\00:17:46.90
Yes there is I mean
the Catholic Bishops
00:17:46.93\00:17:49.30
in Italy have passed
resolutions and another
00:17:49.33\00:17:51.90
saying that this
is bad and of course
00:17:51.93\00:17:54.55
in order to justify it
what they say is well the
00:17:54.58\00:17:58.12
crucifix is simply a
kind of historical symbol
00:17:58.15\00:18:01.95
of Italian culture and
of course that partly true
00:18:01.98\00:18:06.79
I mean there is some,
it's part of the Italian
00:18:06.82\00:18:08.61
culture in a way, but
there is no doubt that
00:18:08.64\00:18:10.64
it is a symbol
associated with the
00:18:10.67\00:18:13.43
Roman Catholic
Church as such and therefore
00:18:13.46\00:18:16.52
if you have
separation of church in state,
00:18:17.31\00:18:19.50
which is what they have in Italy
00:18:19.53\00:18:21.17
supposedly the catholic church.
00:18:21.20\00:18:23.17
Do you think, do
they really have anything
00:18:23.20\00:18:24.17
approaching US
separation of churches
00:18:24.18\00:18:26.31
Not like the US,
but for example the
00:18:26.34\00:18:27.85
Catholic Church
until a few years ago was
00:18:27.88\00:18:30.71
the state church it
is no longer the state
00:18:30.74\00:18:32.91
church in Italy even
by Italian legislation
00:18:32.94\00:18:35.64
it's not a state
church, but it is the seen your
00:18:35.67\00:18:38.71
church, it is the
largest church and therefore
00:18:38.74\00:18:41.06
influential and
so therefore it feels
00:18:41.09\00:18:43.52
that this is against
this, this just they claim
00:18:43.55\00:18:47.80
is discriminating
against the majority of the
00:18:47.83\00:18:50.51
population and that
the minority is being given
00:18:50.54\00:18:53.38
more rights then
the majority in a way.
00:18:53.41\00:18:55.47
Yeah this is an
interesting development because
00:18:55.85\00:18:57.69
I believe another
programs I've gone
00:18:58.26\00:19:02.44
on it length about
the European union,
00:19:02.47\00:19:04.40
which I've been
watching for many years
00:19:04.43\00:19:05.94
and to me is almost
prophetic development
00:19:05.97\00:19:08.32
and I've seen in a
number of developments,
00:19:08.35\00:19:12.55
where Rome is
assorted itself as never before
00:19:12.58\00:19:15.09
is an essence the
religious God father
00:19:15.12\00:19:16.88
of this organization,
but this strikes against
00:19:16.91\00:19:19.63
the idea that they've
got a struggle for this
00:19:19.66\00:19:22.89
The Roman Catholic
Church has tried to
00:19:22.92\00:19:24.53
assort itself, but
it's been defeated in the
00:19:24.56\00:19:27.84
European Union
on several instances
00:19:27.87\00:19:29.61
for example they
tried the European Union
00:19:29.64\00:19:33.47
has been working
on a new constitution
00:19:33.50\00:19:36.09
to kind a make it more
in harmony with present
00:19:37.03\00:19:40.89
developments in
the European Union
00:19:40.92\00:19:42.44
the constitution is
gonna role now a few decades
00:19:42.47\00:19:45.73
Back. Well as I
remember they had to do that
00:19:45.76\00:19:47.99
because of comments
from Pope John Paul II
00:19:48.02\00:19:51.45
wasn't it, the constitution
was largely defeated
00:19:51.48\00:19:55.28
because he cast
the Persians on it
00:19:55.31\00:19:57.35
Well, it's true, but
it's just the opposite
00:19:57.38\00:20:01.10
in a way in other
words the constitution
00:20:01.13\00:20:04.83
that has been prepared
is a constitution that makes
00:20:04.86\00:20:08.51
no reference to Christianity
00:20:08.54\00:20:10.58
and Catholicism. Oh they yes
00:20:10.61\00:20:13.86
the present one, but
the first draft which was
00:20:13.89\00:20:16.37
rejected I
remember was in the context
00:20:16.40\00:20:18.63
of some
maligning statements from
00:20:18.66\00:20:20.84
Rome and it collapse
While it was rejected,
00:20:20.87\00:20:23.82
I think by one or two states
00:20:23.94\00:20:25.04
Yes, but that meant
the Liberty to start
00:20:25.07\00:20:26.79
But the one was another launch
00:20:26.82\00:20:28.73
for example not
exactly are overwhelmingly
00:20:28.76\00:20:31.50
the Roman Catholic country.
00:20:31.53\00:20:32.57
No, no. It's you know and so on,
00:20:32.60\00:20:34.11
so it's not been
it's not an action yet,
00:20:34.14\00:20:37.97
but the catholics
want reference to be made
00:20:38.00\00:20:41.33
Yes, yes within their interest
00:20:41.36\00:20:42.86
I'm quite sure myself
that when the constitution
00:20:42.89\00:20:44.46
is past finally it
will not be what the
00:20:44.49\00:20:47.07
Catholic Church
exactly wants they may make
00:20:47.10\00:20:50.32
some kind of
reference to past history was
00:20:50.35\00:20:54.46
influenced by Christianity
or something like that,
00:20:54.49\00:20:57.87
but I don't think it
will be quite what the
00:20:58.22\00:20:59.59
Roman Catholic
Church wants because
00:20:59.62\00:21:01.14
they are living today
in separation of church
00:21:02.67\00:21:04.66
in state and
therefore they do not
00:21:04.69\00:21:06.47
want that type of thing.
00:21:06.50\00:21:07.83
Now jumping a little
bit in my mind connected
00:21:08.49\00:21:11.40
remember Pope
Benedict, I think it was made an
00:21:11.43\00:21:16.63
interesting
statement not too long ago,
00:21:16.66\00:21:18.45
not too long into
his pontificate about
00:21:18.48\00:21:20.92
Turkey as a
potential influence into the
00:21:20.95\00:21:23.75
European Union
perhaps not sharing the same
00:21:23.78\00:21:26.72
values and I'm not
sure he said it directly,
00:21:27.28\00:21:29.04
but the implication was
not the same religion as
00:21:29.07\00:21:32.44
christian Europe and
created some problems,
00:21:32.47\00:21:36.32
and the only
reversed himself following
00:21:36.35\00:21:39.89
it was embarrassment
at Regensburg then he said
00:21:39.92\00:21:43.27
well that we consider
that they could perhaps
00:21:43.30\00:21:45.15
join. With that comment
in mind let's move on to
00:21:45.18\00:21:49.53
something that
has happened recently
00:21:49.56\00:21:50.96
in Switzerland again
secularist in an agenda
00:21:51.31\00:21:57.33
that is consistent
with the European Union
00:21:57.36\00:22:00.86
Switzerland through
it's own unique governor
00:22:00.89\00:22:05.00
system brought in is a rule
00:22:05.03\00:22:08.42
or law against Minarets.
00:22:08.45\00:22:10.50
Well let me say what happened
00:22:11.01\00:22:12.20
And that's created a fury
00:22:12.23\00:22:13.20
What happened, the
Switzerland of course
00:22:13.21\00:22:14.76
you know is a country that has
00:22:14.79\00:22:16.97
Well I know, but
we need to explain
00:22:17.57\00:22:18.93
so different sort of government
00:22:18.96\00:22:20.05
26 cantons like
states in each one of the
00:22:20.08\00:22:22.99
state is quite
independent like states
00:22:23.02\00:22:25.27
in Unites States. Yeah.
00:22:25.30\00:22:26.38
They have their own legislation,
00:22:26.41\00:22:27.54
their own legislatures
and all that and some
00:22:27.57\00:22:31.15
of them are
protestants and some of them are
00:22:31.18\00:22:33.93
Roman Catholic. I
think the protestants
00:22:33.96\00:22:35.58
are in the majority
and the catholics are
00:22:35.61\00:22:37.66
substantial
minority I mean it's pretty
00:22:37.69\00:22:40.12
close so on. So
that's the Italian,
00:22:40.15\00:22:42.62
so the Swiss history
is one of Christianity
00:22:42.65\00:22:45.76
based either on
the reformed view,
00:22:46.43\00:22:49.07
I mean the
protestant or the Roman Catholic
00:22:49.10\00:22:51.06
view the other
churches minorities
00:22:51.52\00:22:54.16
and so on and
muslims have been coming in
00:22:54.19\00:22:56.16
recently and growing and growing
00:22:56.19\00:22:58.15
and growing. Well the Swiss have
00:22:58.18\00:23:01.28
looked about the
situation and they
00:23:01.31\00:23:03.53
seem what has
happened in another countries
00:23:03.56\00:23:05.19
riots in France and so forth
00:23:05.22\00:23:06.88
with the muslims,
problems in Germany
00:23:07.26\00:23:09.22
and more and
more muslims coming in
00:23:09.25\00:23:11.24
and the Swiss
while there in favor of
00:23:11.64\00:23:13.74
Religious Liberty and tolerance.
00:23:13.77\00:23:15.63
They are also in favor
of keeping the status quo,
00:23:16.11\00:23:18.33
yes, and they are
really conservative people
00:23:18.36\00:23:20.83
they want to keep the
way it is and so they in
00:23:20.86\00:23:24.64
Switzerland they
have the possibility
00:23:24.67\00:23:26.54
of what they call a referendum
00:23:26.96\00:23:28.63
That was good, I'm
pleasure worked it up. And yeah
00:23:28.66\00:23:30.28
Such reflective of In
which the people decide
00:23:30.31\00:23:33.83
Popular opinion
right the religious
00:23:33.86\00:23:35.36
In other words
the popular opinion
00:23:35.39\00:23:36.36
decides and it's
not the government
00:23:36.37\00:23:38.39
because the
government in Switzerland
00:23:38.42\00:23:40.07
was in favor of
allowing minarets to be build
00:23:40.68\00:23:43.09
when they build mosques
and all political parties
00:23:43.61\00:23:46.94
in Switzerland
were in favor except
00:23:46.97\00:23:48.93
one was suppose, but
all the others were oppose,
00:23:48.96\00:23:53.10
but when they came
to the people the people
00:23:53.13\00:23:55.90
voted by quite
substantial majority
00:23:55.93\00:23:59.08
and people were surprised.
00:23:59.11\00:24:00.33
I forgot what the majority been,
00:24:00.36\00:24:01.78
but something like
around 58-60 % to 40 43,
00:24:01.81\00:24:06.13
I forgot what it
was but it wasn't just
00:24:06.16\00:24:07.91
Now it was a majority
00:24:07.94\00:24:08.91
It was a solid
majority as far in politics
00:24:08.92\00:24:11.73
voted not to allow
the building of minarets
00:24:11.76\00:24:14.89
now they can build
mosques in Switzerland,
00:24:14.92\00:24:17.01
but the Swiss would
have decided they are not
00:24:17.04\00:24:19.58
going to have these
minarets. Well they say
00:24:19.61\00:24:24.21
Which are seen by many people
00:24:24.24\00:24:26.25
The cultural disconnect
00:24:26.28\00:24:27.25
As a kind of symbol
of Islamic dominance
00:24:27.26\00:24:30.84
and as symbol of
political symbol almost
00:24:30.87\00:24:33.84
and that we're not
gonna have minarets
00:24:33.87\00:24:35.69
in all villages and
towns they are standing
00:24:35.72\00:24:38.90
next to our
churches and church steeple
00:24:38.93\00:24:41.45
and probably higher
than the church steeple
00:24:41.48\00:24:43.28
and all that. So, of
course as a religious liberty
00:24:43.31\00:24:46.38
advocate I must say
that I think it should
00:24:46.41\00:24:49.67
It's problematic isn't it?
00:24:49.70\00:24:50.67
Allow in a way
minarets maybe restrict the site
00:24:50.68\00:24:53.28
and something
like that I don't know
00:24:53.31\00:24:55.01
how to control that, but
I don't think they should
00:24:55.04\00:24:57.20
limit people in for
just religious reasons
00:24:57.93\00:25:01.55
even though it
maybe political reasons,
00:25:01.58\00:25:03.33
but I understand
why the Swiss did that
00:25:03.36\00:25:05.84
knowing having
living Switzerland
00:25:05.87\00:25:07.47
for many years as a child
00:25:07.50\00:25:08.74
Alright and this is the
conflict between the real
00:25:08.77\00:25:11.51
world situation and the
theory of religious liberty
00:25:11.54\00:25:14.27
in standing for
freedom you may actually
00:25:15.53\00:25:18.80
link up with some very
adverse social conditions.
00:25:20.44\00:25:22.98
Yeah right. So
you need to look at
00:25:23.01\00:25:24.03
what's really
going on here and Europe
00:25:24.06\00:25:26.06
is under a self
inflicted cultural attack
00:25:26.98\00:25:29.47
I think they
brought it's not so much
00:25:29.50\00:25:32.34
of religious
issue, but they brought
00:25:32.37\00:25:34.10
peoples of other
countries and other religions
00:25:34.13\00:25:37.52
in growing numbers
and now there cultural
00:25:37.55\00:25:40.51
identity is under
threat and there is the risk
00:25:40.54\00:25:43.10
that the religion
that comes with that
00:25:43.13\00:25:45.02
new culture will
be put in conflict
00:25:45.05\00:25:46.87
with the religion of the other.
00:25:46.90\00:25:47.91
And they of course
they feel they have
00:25:47.94\00:25:49.01
established
religion, we have piece
00:25:49.04\00:25:50.63
in our country
it's been that way for
00:25:50.66\00:25:52.64
many years maybe
even couple of centuries,
00:25:54.14\00:25:58.45
we get a long we
don't want to have anything
00:25:58.48\00:26:00.97
now that's gonna
upset the upper curve,
00:26:01.00\00:26:02.81
and they start having
discussions about things.
00:26:03.14\00:26:06.69
But seems to me that
this is precisely the sort of
00:26:06.72\00:26:09.28
political religious
clash that's likely to
00:26:09.31\00:26:11.81
precipitate final
events rather than an
00:26:11.84\00:26:13.89
incremental decay or decline of
00:26:13.92\00:26:16.18
religious liberty.
Well there is no doubt
00:26:16.21\00:26:18.13
in my mind that if
certain difficulties develop
00:26:18.16\00:26:22.54
in the world,
where we have tragedies,
00:26:22.57\00:26:25.95
we have terrorism, we
have crime in the streets
00:26:26.31\00:26:29.82
and people willing
to adopt certain actions
00:26:29.85\00:26:34.08
in order to try
to strengthen their
00:26:34.11\00:26:35.98
position under
faith and maybe even
00:26:36.01\00:26:38.61
pass a Sunday
law in order to show
00:26:38.64\00:26:40.48
that they recognize
the sovereignty of God
00:26:40.51\00:26:42.60
and do not want
these other new forces
00:26:42.63\00:26:45.01
to be active in their country.
00:26:45.04\00:26:46.46
100 years ago
when liberty magazine
00:26:49.00\00:26:51.07
was began, the United States was
00:26:51.10\00:26:53.42
convulsed by
discussion of whether or not
00:26:53.45\00:26:56.19
they should be a
national Sunday law.
00:26:56.22\00:26:58.25
Those days long past,
there is no current effort
00:26:58.28\00:27:03.52
to legislate Sunday,
but many that wrote to me
00:27:03.55\00:27:07.27
at liberty magazine particularly
00:27:07.30\00:27:08.55
Seventh Adventist see
much to suspect around
00:27:08.58\00:27:12.77
the world in
movements toward some sort of
00:27:12.80\00:27:15.12
Sunday law and
there is no question that
00:27:15.15\00:27:17.88
with such religious
forces in different countries
00:27:17.91\00:27:20.42
even in Europe are
wishing and working for such
00:27:20.45\00:27:23.01
a thing probably
Sunday legislation that will
00:27:23.04\00:27:27.44
fulfill prophecy of a
final nature will arrive
00:27:27.47\00:27:30.79
after some Cataclysmic Event.
00:27:30.82\00:27:32.55
We should never take
our freedoms for granted,
00:27:32.95\00:27:35.61
but we should never
also project our worst
00:27:35.64\00:27:38.78
fears onto a more
benign situation one that
00:27:38.81\00:27:42.13
we can presently defend against,
00:27:42.16\00:27:43.73
one that will protect
our freedoms in the context
00:27:43.76\00:27:47.98
of religious laws
and correct witness
00:27:48.01\00:27:51.36
to the world free of
suspicion and paranoia
00:27:51.39\00:27:55.64
that recognizing
the prophecy indeed
00:27:56.09\00:27:58.00
will be fulfilled one day.
00:27:58.03\00:27:59.31
For liberty insiders
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:00.79\00:28:03.56