Welcome to the
"Liberty Insider."
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This is the program that
brings you up to date news,
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views,
information and discussion
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on religious liberty Issues.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine,
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and my guest on the
program is Sam Green.
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Welcome Sam.
It's good to be here.
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For our viewer's information
because very relevant
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to what I want
to discuss with you.
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You are in charge
of Religious Liberty
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and Public Affairs
for the South Western
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area of the United States,
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for the Seventh-day
Adventist Church. Yes.
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And you are also the
Secretary of that union
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we call it, yes, in
our structural sense.
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But I want to talk to
you, about what you do
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in this role for
Religious Liberty,
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and very often I
know you are intervening
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and dialoguing with
employers on behalf of members.
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We usually have Sabbath
problems, that's a classic,
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yes, religious
accommodation issue, yes.
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How would this typically run?
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Well, Lincoln
what happens a lot.
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We have members
who have been employed
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in a lot of situations,
long term situations,
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and lots of time when
new management changes
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and things of this
nature, jobs get threatened
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because they want to
change the structure but...
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So an Adventist who
may have had no problem
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you were
telling me a case, yeah,
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like 10, 15 years, yes.
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It's not uncommon that
there is some management change
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maybe even at the
middle or lower level, yes.
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And what was
taken for granted before
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suddenly evaporates
and their jobs are at risk.
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Well, I'd like to always
say that in a lot of times,
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you know, you get
a new sheriff in town
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and they want to show everybody.
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Well the pharaoh, the
new justice, most probably.
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Shaking up a little bit
to just let them know...
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it's a new person in charge but,
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we also get a lot of situations
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whenever we had
evangelistic meetings.
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When we like the
year of evangelism
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that we're going through now.
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We end up baptizing
a lot of new people,
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their jobs, they
want to be loyal to God,
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keep the Sabbath.
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And many times, you know,
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all of a sudden
the management says
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no I am not going to give you
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that time off and so that's...
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You are reminding,
I'm sorry to interrupt,
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but you're
reminding us something
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that we should tell people
as they deal with the laws
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in the United
States and many people
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around the world
are watching 3ABN,
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and this different laws
but in the United States
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we guaranteed in theory,
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accommodation for
religious viewpoint.
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And it's not
necessary in a given job
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to always have that
viewpoint, is it? Right.
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People come under
conviction, right,
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so the real issue is not
whether you have a church
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that believes this
even, but it's what that
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you are under a
conviction and to be true
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to yourselves spiritually,
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this is the stance
you are taking, yes.
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And even if ten
years in that job
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as a non-Adventist
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or some other
religious point of now,
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you need to keep
the Sabbath, right.
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That should be
respected legally.
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Right, and it's
an individual choice,
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it's a contentious
thing that every individual
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has to make for themselves
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and that's the way
we generally directed.
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We generally have the
member write a letter,
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let them know their conviction.
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Pastor can send a
letter along with that one
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that says they are
worshipping at this church
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and they are
member in good standing.
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And then what we do is well
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is they will contact me.
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We try to help them to make it,
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so that people are not thinking
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that they are forced
to do is or whatever else
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that it is an individual
choice that they are making.
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And that's the
proper way to do it
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and so it doesn't look
like it's conjured up or forced.
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Now I have been in pains to say
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this in many programs
when this topic come up,
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but I...I am sure
you would agree with me,
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that we can't stress
too strongly to viewers
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who might be in such a
choices that the earlier
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they start this program.
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Right, right. This
response the better.
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Yeah, we... I do a lot
of seminars and workshops
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with our
churches and our members.
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We try to always tell
them what their rights are,
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but we talk to them a
lot about their behavior.
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And when I say behavior,
I mean not just how soon
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they should respond on things,
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but also what they
should do in a workplace.
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Because many
times I've had cases
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where we've solved this
simply because these guys
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are just good
workers and they have gone
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the extra mile, they
will stay over a little later
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and finish something
up or clean something up.
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And I've had one employer,
one time he was grilling me
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in all this and finally, he says
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man let me just stop this.
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He says I only
have 350 employees here
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and I wish all of
them are like this guy.
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That's a wonderful testament,
a person of integrity.
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Yeah, when you get
those kinds of situations
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and we teach our people
to give an honest day's work
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for an honest
day's pay, you know,
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be the person on that job
that will help everybody out
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whether it's in your
department or not, you know.
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And I've had
employees to step up
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and tell the employer, you know,
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this man believes in his
faith and he practices it.
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So we'll cover for
him, you schedule us,
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but don't schedule him.
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And they had a
lot of good things.
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Yeah, because
that impresses me more,
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because there's one thing
to have the law in your side,
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but, you know, is
anything really accomplish
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for the kingdom and
for witnessing for God.
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Right, right. If
you force someone
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to give you
something, but with your life
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and your witness is not really
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right, carrying
that forward, right.
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So, in fact as you're talking
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about this sort of a scenario,
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I was thinking
about Daniel, yeah.
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Make him serve several
different kings and regimes,
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yeah, but he had
personal integrity.
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Right and that means so much...
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I can tell you one
situation we had in Louisiana
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with the hurricanes
and things of this nature
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and here was a fellow
that was 26 years working
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for the Photophone
company and 20 of those years
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he'd been a
Seventh-day Adventist.
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He never had a Sabbath
problem working for them,
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and whenever hurricanes
and things of this nature
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would come up,
this guy would go in,
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because you get lines
down, you got lines in jeopardy
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and stuff like
this and he would work
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around the clock as long
he was needed in everything.
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Well new management
came down and they wanted
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to start scheduling him
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at least one
Sabbath every month.
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And he says I haven't
worked for that another time
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and so what finally came down
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was the union
representative called me
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and he said
don't worry about him.
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He says I am going to
take this issue to all the guys
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and he says I
know that he comes in
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when there is an emergency
and he says and I also know
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that the money he
makes during that time
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he gives it to
charity. Incredible.
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And he says people like
that are rare and he says
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we know he believes
what he does in all of this,
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but he also believes in
helping people over all.
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And he said we're gonna cover,
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we're gonna take care of him.
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And he went to all
the other employees
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and they voted
to go to management
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and tell management
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don't ever
schedule him, schedule us.
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I want to insert
personal viewpoint here,
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let me see, if
you agree or disagree
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but you tweak
something in my own experience
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telling about this
fellow with integrity
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that even when he may
have worked of necessity,
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yes, he would give
the money to charity.
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When I was a young
fellow I worked in a church
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operated hospital, okay.
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And...I said that I
would've to come in once a month
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just to do the
necessary work, yes.
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And after while they
started scheduling me
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more and more and
was a difficult time
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in my spiritual growth, yes,
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thankfully I've
gone beyond that,
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but basically I felt
that I had approval, yeah,
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to work every Sabbath
and little extra money.
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And I've thought in
the years since then,
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you know, that's
probably the ultimate temptation
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yes, for a person of faith
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on this Sabbath
accommodation issue.
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When you are in a
church environment and people
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not thinking it
through sort of facilitating
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yes, you compromising, yes.
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And I thought that we
would have very little problem
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of that nature
even in our own church
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operated institutions
which do of necessity have
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to do things on
the weekend, yes.
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You know, the
minimal to gift that money,
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I don't know if
could legally require,
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but if there was
a moral expectation
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that was not your
money, that's the Lords,
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Yeah. I'll give back to Him.
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I think this self
serving, excusing thing, well,
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it's necessary,
I'm gonna choose it,
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I think would have upright, yes.
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Well I respect
that fellow very much,
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yeah, if he did, he
would give it to the Lord.
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He would give it to the Lord
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and he didn't
always give it to the,
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you know, to our church.
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He would give it to community
places and stuff like that.
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Even the Bible says, you know,
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we're strong on tithe,
then I think systematics start
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giving as expected, but
it's really you either return
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to the Lord, no way he
can say, has to come to me.
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Right and like
you said, you know,
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the Bible does says
it's lawful to do good
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on the Sabbath and that
concept of him doing that
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and whatever dollars he
would earn during that time.
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And I've known lot
of people to do that,
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you know, you have some
other conservative views
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within our church
about those kinds of things.
00:09:43.08\00:09:46.26
I know one pastor
calls him burnt offerings
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and he says, we should
never do this and never do that,
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you know. And,
but I've been caught,
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I remember one time
I was in San Antonio,
00:09:55.41\00:09:59.64
and here we were in
the midst of getting ready
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to do afternoon program.
00:10:01.97\00:10:03.69
It had been raining
all day and all of a sudden
00:10:03.70\00:10:05.55
this creek came up,
was flooding the area.
00:10:05.56\00:10:09.15
And the
authorities came in and told us
00:10:09.16\00:10:10.98
we had to get
out because this area
00:10:10.99\00:10:13.51
was getting shut down.
00:10:13.52\00:10:14.87
Well, the problem was
when we got to one road
00:10:14.88\00:10:17.78
that was leading
out, that one road
00:10:17.79\00:10:20.90
that was leading
out, it was a level
00:10:20.91\00:10:22.50
where we couldn't drive through.
00:10:22.51\00:10:24.14
So we had to go back to
this little community center
00:10:24.15\00:10:26.41
where they were bringing
in people from their homes
00:10:26.42\00:10:29.11
and people with wheelchairs
and all these kinds of things.
00:10:29.12\00:10:33.31
And the Red Cross
people couldn't get in,
00:10:33.32\00:10:36.67
so all the people
that where from the church
00:10:36.68\00:10:39.40
where I was doing.
00:10:39.41\00:10:40.54
We had to end up mopping
floors, cooking the meals,
00:10:40.55\00:10:44.77
serving the people,
this was on Sabbath,
00:10:44.78\00:10:46.15
and this was on
Sabbath. Good work.
00:10:46.16\00:10:48.88
Yeah, so, you know,
there are situations in life
00:10:48.89\00:10:51.40
that you, you have to make it.
00:10:51.41\00:10:54.04
You know, and we've a
lot of biblical examples
00:10:54.05\00:10:56.46
with Jesus Himself
doing, doing good on the Sabbath
00:10:56.47\00:10:59.95
and being accused falsely that
00:10:59.96\00:11:01.56
He is doing something wrong.
00:11:01.57\00:11:02.56
But when it comes to
life in Lamb and people
00:11:02.57\00:11:07.07
and that's the main thing
I tell people all the time,
00:11:07.08\00:11:09.62
Jesus is more
concerned about people
00:11:09.63\00:11:12.10
than He is about
institutions and rules
00:11:12.11\00:11:16.19
and regulations
and stuff like that.
00:11:16.20\00:11:18.39
And you've got to be
able to understand that.
00:11:18.40\00:11:22.97
But in the workplace
where someone is doing a work
00:11:22.98\00:11:25.05
for secular employment, right,
00:11:25.06\00:11:26.36
it's on a regularly
scheduled system obviously,
00:11:26.37\00:11:30.79
you would not
knowingly go into a situation,
00:11:30.80\00:11:32.92
where your
Sabbath is going to be
00:11:32.93\00:11:34.09
continually compromised, right.
00:11:34.10\00:11:35.43
And this is where
people need accommodation
00:11:35.44\00:11:37.42
and thankfully in the
US, and some other countries
00:11:37.43\00:11:40.59
but the US, I
think is really, a beacon
00:11:40.60\00:11:44.10
for western countries
on religious accommodation,
00:11:44.11\00:11:47.12
yeah, it's guaranteed, yeah.
00:11:47.13\00:11:48.85
And so much of your
effort is put forward
00:11:48.86\00:11:52.06
there to making sure
that our members and indeed
00:11:52.07\00:11:55.12
some others who might come
asking us on to it for help,
00:11:55.13\00:11:57.48
get that
information and coordination.
00:11:57.49\00:12:00.48
Right, and many employers
their human resources offices
00:12:00.49\00:12:06.97
and stuff like
this, they don't face
00:12:06.98\00:12:09.70
these kind of situations
of accommodation, because,
00:12:09.71\00:12:12.52
you know, a lot of
places, I call it de facto
00:12:12.53\00:12:17.49
discrimination and
you close on a Sunday,
00:12:18.59\00:12:21.05
but you don't
close on a Saturday.
00:12:21.06\00:12:24.28
That's true,
discrimination doesn't always
00:12:24.29\00:12:26.57
present in the
way that we expect.
00:12:26.58\00:12:28.88
It can be subtle and very often
00:12:28.89\00:12:32.75
things that just
seem like normal workplace
00:12:32.76\00:12:34.85
dislocations might actually be
00:12:34.86\00:12:36.34
an underlying
prejudice and discrimination.
00:12:36.35\00:12:38.81
After the break we'll
come back to talk a little bit
00:12:38.82\00:12:41.03
more with Sam Green
00:12:41.04\00:12:42.50
on how the law can
be invoked to protect
00:12:42.51\00:12:47.12
your religious accommodation
rights in the workplace.
00:12:47.13\00:12:49.76
One-hundred years, a long time
00:12:58.93\00:13:01.79
to do anything much
less publish a magazine,
00:13:01.80\00:13:04.74
but this year Liberty,
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:04.75\00:13:08.01
voice of religious freedom,
celebrates one hundred years
00:13:08.02\00:13:11.25
of doing what it does
best, collecting, analyzing,
00:13:11.26\00:13:14.82
and reporting the ebb
00:13:14.83\00:13:16.12
and flow of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:16.13\00:13:19.30
Issue after
issue, Liberty has taken
00:13:19.31\00:13:21.95
on the tough assignments,
tracking down threats
00:13:21.96\00:13:24.58
to religious freedom
and exposing the work
00:13:24.59\00:13:26.32
of the devil in
every corner of the globe.
00:13:26.33\00:13:29.21
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:29.22\00:13:31.99
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:13:32.00\00:13:34.76
sequestered within
the Church community
00:13:34.77\00:13:36.38
itself have been
clearly and honestly exposed.
00:13:36.39\00:13:39.81
Liberty exists for
one purpose to help
00:13:39.82\00:13:42.88
God's people maintain
that all important separation
00:13:42.89\00:13:46.06
of Church and State,
while recognizing the dangers
00:13:46.07\00:13:49.14
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:49.15\00:13:51.31
During the past century,
00:13:51.32\00:13:52.77
Liberty has experienced
challenges of its own,
00:13:52.78\00:13:55.20
but it remains on the job.
00:13:55.21\00:13:57.51
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line
00:13:57.52\00:14:00.21
of dedicated Adventist Editors,
00:14:00.22\00:14:01.94
three of whom
represent almost half
00:14:01.95\00:14:03.62
of the publications
existence and the foresight
00:14:03.63\00:14:06.25
of a little
woman from New England.
00:14:06.26\00:14:08.60
One hundred years of struggle,
00:14:08.61\00:14:10.65
one hundred years of victories,
00:14:10.66\00:14:12.92
religious freedom isn't
just about political machines
00:14:12.93\00:14:15.87
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:15.88\00:14:17.64
It's about people
fighting for the right to serve
00:14:17.65\00:14:21.22
the God they
love as their hearts
00:14:21.23\00:14:23.42
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:23.43\00:14:25.82
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:14:25.83\00:14:27.99
of Seventh-day
Adventists everywhere.
00:14:28.00\00:14:30.41
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work
00:14:30.42\00:14:32.75
of providing timely information,
00:14:32.76\00:14:34.52
spirit filled inspiration,
and heaven sent encouragement
00:14:34.53\00:14:37.80
to all who long to
live and work in a world
00:14:37.81\00:14:41.74
bound together by the God
00:14:41.75\00:14:43.36
ordained bonds of
religious freedom.
00:14:43.37\00:14:46.88
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:14:57.17\00:14:58.86
Before the break, I was
discussing with Sam Green,
00:14:58.87\00:15:02.22
his work in his area
of the United States,
00:15:02.23\00:15:04.87
particularly on
helping mostly Adventist.
00:15:04.88\00:15:08.21
But, I am sure you have dealt
00:15:08.22\00:15:09.40
with people
from all persuasions.
00:15:09.41\00:15:10.91
Yes I have, yes I have.
00:15:10.92\00:15:12.35
Helping them to
work with employers
00:15:12.36\00:15:14.93
and the government
and unions on getting
00:15:14.94\00:15:17.24
what they
legally are entitled to.
00:15:17.25\00:15:20.42
And of course, morally
they require to apply to, yes.
00:15:20.43\00:15:23.32
The Bible will ask us to
stand for our faith, yes.
00:15:23.33\00:15:26.97
I am trying to
tease out from you
00:15:26.98\00:15:29.19
what I've heard
many times in discussion
00:15:29.20\00:15:30.97
some of these heart
warming illustrations,
00:15:30.98\00:15:34.68
usually of success stories
where you work with people
00:15:34.69\00:15:37.22
and what's come out of those,
usually tricky situations,
00:15:37.23\00:15:41.42
but how the Lord has
led and the law has helped
00:15:41.43\00:15:44.06
and con people in
the interventional
00:15:44.07\00:15:46.35
resulted in
them being vindicated
00:15:46.36\00:15:48.18
and success all around.
00:15:48.19\00:15:51.11
Yeah, you know, sometimes,
sometimes it amazes me.
00:15:51.12\00:15:54.94
I will tell
people, you know, in prayer
00:15:56.58\00:15:58.33
and everything that, you know,
00:15:58.34\00:16:00.69
God honors those that honor Him.
00:16:00.70\00:16:04.14
And we'll pray, we'll send
in letters and whatever else.
00:16:04.15\00:16:08.26
And sometimes it's out of
the blue, it get's solved.
00:16:08.27\00:16:11.32
I can't explain it,
the people can't explain it
00:16:11.33\00:16:14.30
and I will tell
them, I said, you know,
00:16:14.31\00:16:15.99
we got to always remember
00:16:16.00\00:16:17.04
that God rules in these things.
00:16:17.05\00:16:19.97
And many times there is
such a miraculous ending
00:16:19.98\00:16:22.26
to the thing that, you
know, it was God's intervention
00:16:22.27\00:16:24.73
all the way long.
00:16:24.74\00:16:25.87
We just had a
lady that works to,
00:16:25.88\00:16:27.46
and the post
office is one of our most
00:16:27.47\00:16:29.14
difficult
employees many, many times.
00:16:29.15\00:16:34.14
Of course, it's a government
agency and you would...
00:16:34.15\00:16:36.30
The bureaucracy and
even it may not be setup
00:16:36.31\00:16:39.92
to oppose rights, yeah.
00:16:39.93\00:16:41.54
Once it's sort of
gets a policy in place,
00:16:41.55\00:16:43.45
I know you can
just blindly sort of
00:16:43.46\00:16:45.13
march over
essence, their conviction.
00:16:45.14\00:16:47.83
One of the
things, One of the things,
00:16:47.84\00:16:49.04
it just came out
of the Houston area.
00:16:49.05\00:16:50.70
There was a lady
that got displaced,
00:16:50.71\00:16:53.17
has worked for the post office
00:16:53.18\00:16:54.85
for like 25 years or better.
00:16:54.86\00:16:57.15
She got displaced
because of Hurricane Katrina.
00:16:57.16\00:17:00.42
And she is working in a
craft there and the post office
00:17:00.43\00:17:05.26
has this policy
about changing crafts.
00:17:05.27\00:17:07.75
If you change
your craft, you go back
00:17:07.76\00:17:10.19
to part time
flexible and things like this.
00:17:10.20\00:17:12.95
You loose some of
those seniority privileges
00:17:12.96\00:17:15.10
and stuff like that.
00:17:15.11\00:17:16.77
And so, they were
threatening to move her
00:17:16.78\00:17:19.84
to another branch and going back
00:17:19.85\00:17:21.55
to part time
flexible and all of this.
00:17:21.56\00:17:25.05
And so we
contacted them in everything,
00:17:25.06\00:17:27.03
but I told at last, we
work very close with your union,
00:17:27.04\00:17:29.96
your union representative
00:17:29.97\00:17:31.85
and the EEOC within
their own organization.
00:17:31.86\00:17:35.56
And the upshot of
that was very good because
00:17:35.57\00:17:38.68
somewhere the union
representative found
00:17:40.53\00:17:43.10
a clause within their
policy that if a person
00:17:43.11\00:17:46.44
was displaced in the
manner which she was,
00:17:46.45\00:17:49.66
that she would not go
back to part time flexible.
00:17:49.67\00:17:53.75
And when the representatives
that went to mediation
00:17:53.76\00:17:57.57
and arbitration or whatever.
00:17:57.58\00:17:59.84
And when the arbitrator,
the people brought this up
00:17:59.85\00:18:05.15
he asked
management and their attorney
00:18:05.16\00:18:07.53
and everybody and said,
you didn't know about this.
00:18:07.54\00:18:11.07
And they said, no
we didn't know this.
00:18:11.08\00:18:13.57
Well he said you should have.
00:18:13.58\00:18:15.52
He said you should have
and he says he dismissed it
00:18:15.53\00:18:20.10
and said, you know,
she goes back to her job,
00:18:20.11\00:18:22.44
you can't do this
that and the other.
00:18:22.45\00:18:24.41
And she is
protected fully there because
00:18:24.42\00:18:26.46
she is not going
back to New Orleans.
00:18:26.47\00:18:28.18
And so, you
know, that was just...
00:18:28.19\00:18:29.85
Like God was
planning orders for her.
00:18:29.86\00:18:31.90
He had to, you know,
and I had some others but,
00:18:31.91\00:18:34.44
one of the most
heart warming wounds
00:18:34.45\00:18:35.94
that I had was of prison
guard and this prison guard
00:18:35.95\00:18:40.98
was living in
one of these prisons
00:18:42.06\00:18:43.87
that was away from inner city.
00:18:43.88\00:18:45.23
Matter of fact, he
had to drive 60 miles
00:18:45.24\00:18:47.48
to the nearest Seventh-day
Adventist Church to worship.
00:18:47.49\00:18:50.93
And, but he got
there and he and his wife
00:18:50.94\00:18:54.08
in this community
because of the guards
00:18:54.09\00:18:55.90
and all the
personnel that worked their
00:18:55.91\00:18:57.88
lived in these
trailers in the community
00:18:57.89\00:18:59.77
right around the prison.
00:18:59.78\00:19:01.52
And he just kind of
self appointed himself
00:19:01.53\00:19:05.42
as a pastor for these people.
00:19:05.43\00:19:07.50
If there was a
birth, he and his wife
00:19:07.51\00:19:09.40
were doing
things for the family.
00:19:09.41\00:19:11.28
If there was a
death, he was doing things,
00:19:11.29\00:19:13.29
in illness or
any thing and so...
00:19:13.30\00:19:15.88
This is one of the guards.
00:19:15.89\00:19:16.86
This is one of the guards.
00:19:16.87\00:19:17.90
He is one of the guards.
00:19:17.91\00:19:19.25
And he was a
Seventh-day Adventists.
00:19:19.26\00:19:21.52
And what happened was
when I wrote to warden
00:19:21.53\00:19:24.44
and they got a new warden.
00:19:24.45\00:19:26.60
He wanted to shake
things up and put everybody
00:19:26.61\00:19:29.20
on this rotation
basis and everything.
00:19:29.21\00:19:31.84
And what happened was
because of his activity
00:19:31.85\00:19:35.81
with the people
there and all of this.
00:19:35.82\00:19:38.09
All of the guards got
together and they send
00:19:39.74\00:19:41.76
a representative,
some representatives
00:19:41.77\00:19:43.63
to the warden
and said, you know,
00:19:43.64\00:19:45.41
this guy works his
religion, believes his faith
00:19:45.42\00:19:48.43
in all this and
say he's the best thing
00:19:48.44\00:19:50.98
that we have here to
be called a pastor to us.
00:19:50.99\00:19:55.31
And, you schedule us
for any of those days
00:19:55.32\00:19:59.09
and times but you
let him practice his...
00:19:59.10\00:20:01.65
Wonderful. And the
warden wrote me a letter,
00:20:01.66\00:20:04.01
wrote me a letter
and was telling me
00:20:04.02\00:20:05.59
it was all
solved and all of this.
00:20:05.60\00:20:07.61
And so I called the
fellow and he told me
00:20:07.62\00:20:09.89
the whole story and I thought
00:20:09.90\00:20:12.05
that was
extremely heart warming.
00:20:12.06\00:20:13.62
And it comes back to like
you say living your faith,
00:20:13.63\00:20:16.43
integrity and
things of this nature.
00:20:16.44\00:20:18.32
But we do have
some, in some cases
00:20:18.33\00:20:20.68
where people loose their jobs.
00:20:20.69\00:20:23.27
Some times they
find better jobs.
00:20:23.28\00:20:25.23
Sometimes it takes
them a while to find a job.
00:20:25.24\00:20:28.12
But, I am always mindful
and it's always inspiring
00:20:28.13\00:20:33.61
to me to see how they maintain
00:20:33.62\00:20:35.74
their faith through all of this.
00:20:35.75\00:20:37.81
You know, I
like these two things
00:20:37.82\00:20:39.62
that you are bringing out,
00:20:39.63\00:20:41.57
the providential
nature of this, yes.
00:20:41.58\00:20:43.26
You know, we don't
have the legal facilities
00:20:43.27\00:20:46.38
or even the legal, nor
access to the legal knowledge
00:20:46.39\00:20:48.91
to solve every
problem. That's true.
00:20:48.92\00:20:50.43
Those should be incredibly
complex too and people
00:20:50.44\00:20:52.95
can use even a good
law to a bad end, yes.
00:20:52.96\00:20:56.00
So we depend on the
Lord's intervention and help,
00:20:56.01\00:20:58.61
but we don't have
massive resources at our church
00:20:58.62\00:21:01.59
and all the churches don't.
00:21:01.60\00:21:04.39
But, I am impressed
not just talking to you,
00:21:04.40\00:21:07.13
that very often we
see this clear signs
00:21:07.14\00:21:09.63
that God is with us, yes.
00:21:09.64\00:21:11.31
He is helping us when
we start to help ourselves.
00:21:11.32\00:21:13.68
Right, right. He more
than fills in the difference.
00:21:13.69\00:21:16.14
Yeah. But then as well
as that we need to recognize
00:21:16.15\00:21:18.95
that the aim of this is not.
00:21:18.96\00:21:20.77
They only
determine our success is not
00:21:22.17\00:21:23.87
to receive that accommodation
00:21:23.88\00:21:25.63
and resolve it technically.
00:21:25.64\00:21:26.86
I think just the
process of witnessing,
00:21:26.87\00:21:29.04
yes, standing
firm for our faith.
00:21:29.05\00:21:31.45
Sometimes there are
real consequences and,
00:21:31.46\00:21:34.41
you know, the Bible says
that we sometimes forget it.
00:21:34.42\00:21:36.25
Oh he live a, live a Godly life
00:21:36.26\00:21:38.33
will suffer persecution, right.
00:21:38.34\00:21:40.28
There are certain
things in this world
00:21:40.29\00:21:43.10
that you can't
abstract the result.
00:21:43.11\00:21:44.90
In that providential ways
you are talking, you know,
00:21:44.91\00:21:47.20
there was a
pilot that was working
00:21:47.21\00:21:49.15
for one of the airlines
and man we have been going
00:21:49.16\00:21:52.82
writing the
letters, I had been talking
00:21:52.83\00:21:54.39
to the union
people and talk to one
00:21:54.40\00:21:57.76
of his HR people with
and they had come to a point
00:21:57.77\00:22:01.48
where they just said,
you know, if he doesn't fly
00:22:01.49\00:22:05.44
and do with these
hours or whatever,
00:22:05.45\00:22:07.52
then we just have to, you know,
00:22:07.53\00:22:09.49
terminate him in everything.
00:22:09.50\00:22:11.17
And he was determined
that he was not going to it.
00:22:11.18\00:22:13.73
Then all of the sudden out
of the blue he gets an offer
00:22:13.74\00:22:17.26
to start working for
FAA just out of the blue.
00:22:17.27\00:22:22.13
And it was, you know,
five days a week, you know,
00:22:22.14\00:22:27.24
seven to three
shift, off from the weekends
00:22:27.25\00:22:31.54
and he was going to be making
more than he was as a pilot.
00:22:31.55\00:22:35.21
Even if he has cared to unravel
00:22:38.26\00:22:40.00
human connections
that resulted in it.
00:22:40.01\00:22:41.99
It clearly is so
unexpected. That's right.
00:22:42.00\00:22:44.17
God intervened. He
got intervened, you know,
00:22:44.18\00:22:46.65
and I've always
believed that guys like I said
00:22:46.66\00:22:50.42
the text in Bible it says
00:22:50.43\00:22:51.84
God honors those who honors Him.
00:22:51.85\00:22:53.67
And it's true, it's true.
00:22:53.68\00:22:56.08
We've seen it in too
many, many cases, yes.
00:22:56.09\00:22:58.50
And it also remind us
we're quoting Bible text,
00:22:58.51\00:23:00.86
you know, cast you
bread upon the waters.
00:23:00.87\00:23:02.72
There was a story
outside your area,
00:23:02.73\00:23:05.35
Mary Myers I think it was
with the New York Transit.
00:23:05.36\00:23:09.13
She stood for the
faith, it took couple of years
00:23:09.14\00:23:11.29
to get
accommodation but as a result
00:23:11.30\00:23:12.79
of her
accommodation many other people
00:23:12.80\00:23:15.63
I believe were
brought to the Lord,
00:23:16.71\00:23:18.13
plus they also
got accommodation.
00:23:18.14\00:23:20.75
They went along
to get, that's right,
00:23:20.76\00:23:22.51
so the benefits just floored
out from her, that's right,
00:23:22.52\00:23:25.55
because of her strong stance
00:23:25.56\00:23:27.32
which didn't immediately
seem positive. That's Right.
00:23:27.33\00:23:32.25
And like I say we
could never discount the fact
00:23:32.26\00:23:35.66
that God
intervenes for His people.
00:23:35.67\00:23:37.98
And that's the
one thing that I think
00:23:37.99\00:23:39.70
it strengthens faith when
we share these testimonies.
00:23:39.71\00:23:43.09
You never know who
is struggling out there,
00:23:43.10\00:23:46.44
but this is
very, very good to do.
00:23:46.45\00:23:48.45
I've heard you say
and I think you said it
00:23:48.46\00:23:50.11
before in this
program and now I know you say
00:23:50.12\00:23:51.55
it often you come at this
00:23:51.56\00:23:53.73
with a pastoral sort of
a mindset. Definitely so.
00:23:53.74\00:23:56.39
And I think that's required,
I know, you and I have sit
00:23:56.40\00:24:00.07
in some interesting
committee meetings, yes,
00:24:00.08\00:24:01.92
for Religious Liberty
and it very easily devolves
00:24:01.93\00:24:04.37
into legal sort of
pressure tactics talk, yeah,
00:24:04.38\00:24:07.95
you know, there
is a place for that.
00:24:07.96\00:24:09.21
But if that's
what it's about, yeah,
00:24:09.22\00:24:11.15
I think we have
lost it. Well I have a...
00:24:11.16\00:24:12.99
witnessing and you
mentioned year of evangelism.
00:24:13.00\00:24:15.47
We are projecting religious
values and our Lord's values,
00:24:15.48\00:24:20.15
so the community
around can say this.
00:24:20.16\00:24:22.03
In my legacy I have
pastor's heart, that's my core
00:24:22.04\00:24:26.53
and I can't get away from that.
00:24:26.54\00:24:28.60
And so, you know, I
try to approach everything
00:24:28.61\00:24:31.26
in that particular manner.
00:24:31.27\00:24:32.54
And, you know, the
nice thing about this thing
00:24:32.55\00:24:36.45
Lincoln is some of
these people I never see
00:24:36.46\00:24:39.89
and I've never seen and
then there are the people
00:24:39.90\00:24:43.12
I go to churches and whatever
00:24:43.13\00:24:44.71
and folk would come up and say
00:24:44.72\00:24:46.34
you don't know
me, but you helped me.
00:24:46.35\00:24:49.33
And I get an
opportunity and they tell me us
00:24:49.34\00:24:51.82
and then I can remember
the situation and the letter
00:24:51.83\00:24:54.06
I wrote and all of this
00:24:54.07\00:24:55.90
and it's just a
joy to help them.
00:24:55.91\00:24:59.14
I hate to break it to you.
00:24:59.15\00:25:00.28
I know you are not
an invisible person
00:25:00.29\00:25:02.06
but some ways being on
this particular program
00:25:02.07\00:25:04.19
on this particular topic
00:25:04.20\00:25:05.53
that may have blown your cover.
00:25:05.54\00:25:06.97
Yeah, now you will be
known as you were known.
00:25:09.12\00:25:11.90
Yeah,
definitely, they will see me
00:25:11.91\00:25:13.79
and they will
say, oh that's the guy.
00:25:13.80\00:25:15.08
It's got to be
wonderfully rewarding. It is.
00:25:18.29\00:25:20.78
You know, I edit
Liberty Magazine and my reward
00:25:20.79\00:25:23.75
very often are these
letters that come in,
00:25:23.76\00:25:25.36
but to have these
personal contacts.
00:25:25.37\00:25:28.04
And I get thank you
cards, I get phone calls
00:25:28.05\00:25:31.46
to thank me
whatever and many times
00:25:31.47\00:25:33.32
they don't tell me anything.
00:25:34.43\00:25:35.87
They tell, you know, my
president they will say,
00:25:35.88\00:25:38.33
you know, tell Sam, thanks
for this, that or the other.
00:25:38.34\00:25:41.82
And there are some times
he will relate those things
00:25:41.83\00:25:44.20
to me and sometimes,
00:25:44.21\00:25:45.25
you know, he will forget but...
00:25:45.26\00:25:47.81
Now do you see any
increase or, you know,
00:25:47.82\00:25:49.92
what is the
constant call for assistance
00:25:49.93\00:25:53.35
or do you see a bit of
an advent flow to this.
00:25:53.36\00:25:57.14
I am thinking right
now like I say, you know,
00:25:57.15\00:25:59.36
when we have like
real strong emphasis
00:25:59.37\00:26:02.68
on evangelism and baptisms
00:26:02.69\00:26:06.03
and that's a constant
thing within our territory.
00:26:06.04\00:26:09.32
We...our
presidents, my president,
00:26:09.33\00:26:13.76
they are very, very
strong on evangelism
00:26:13.77\00:26:15.59
and growth and
so we do see that.
00:26:15.60\00:26:17.65
So there is initial
moment where the person really
00:26:17.66\00:26:20.35
has to face the
reality in faith commitment.
00:26:20.36\00:26:23.18
And it happens and
it happens in such a way
00:26:23.19\00:26:26.38
that I am seeing I
believe to be more increases.
00:26:26.39\00:26:32.86
Because these
increases come and I think
00:26:33.89\00:26:37.08
part of it is the end of time
00:26:37.09\00:26:39.48
situations that we
are living in, yeah.
00:26:39.49\00:26:41.70
Religious
accommodations takes many forms.
00:26:43.38\00:26:46.32
I can read in my Bible
00:26:46.33\00:26:48.49
and read in the Old
Testament of Daniel,
00:26:48.50\00:26:51.63
a prophet and a
captive in strange land
00:26:51.64\00:26:55.34
because of his
religious integrity was able
00:26:55.35\00:26:57.98
to satisfactorily
work in the employee
00:26:57.99\00:27:00.42
not just of
different kings but under
00:27:00.43\00:27:02.98
different dynasties,
conquer and conquered.
00:27:02.99\00:27:06.63
And I can look
and read of Nehemiah,
00:27:06.64\00:27:10.03
another captive,
that such a good employee
00:27:10.04\00:27:12.61
that he was made
cupbearer to the king.
00:27:12.62\00:27:14.87
And when he had a
spiritual need and was crying
00:27:14.88\00:27:17.85
about the situation his
fellow believers the king
00:27:17.86\00:27:21.17
gave him a release to
go back to his homeland.
00:27:21.18\00:27:23.80
But also I can read
about Joseph who a captive
00:27:23.81\00:27:27.19
and employed in
the house of Potiphar,
00:27:27.20\00:27:30.39
stuck to his integrity
and would not do things
00:27:30.40\00:27:34.08
that went against
his love of the Lord,
00:27:34.09\00:27:36.08
was still sent into captivity
00:27:36.09\00:27:38.53
and not accommodated.
00:27:38.54\00:27:39.96
Today, using the laws
of the land in United Sates
00:27:39.97\00:27:43.54
and in other countries where
the accommodation is allowed.
00:27:43.55\00:27:46.43
Sometimes
integrity shines through
00:27:46.44\00:27:49.07
and receives accommodations.
00:27:49.08\00:27:51.11
Other times integrity
has to be its own reward
00:27:51.12\00:27:55.23
and the witness for the
Lord is what's it all about
00:27:55.24\00:27:58.64
and accommodations is really
00:27:58.65\00:28:00.27
accommodation with the Lord.
00:28:00.28\00:28:01.82
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln steed.
00:28:03.84\00:28:06.75