Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the
program that brings you
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up to date news, information
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and discussion on
religious liberty events
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around the world. My
name is Lincoln Steed,
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editor of Liberty
Magazine and my guest
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on the program is Greg Hamilton,
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President of the Northwest
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Religious Liberty Association.
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Good to be here
with you Lincoln.
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And, and it's
again because you've been
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on this program
before. I mentioned
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around the world as I often do,
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but particularly
this time because
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let's talk about
something that has
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global implications. Since 9/11
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the united, anyone
in the United States
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is well aware of the phenomenon
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known as Global
Jihad or Radical Islam,
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but it's not particularly new
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and before the, the
program began you and I
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were talking
about the Crusades, yes.
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And the role that the
Jihad had in some ways
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as an after
phenomenon even though
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the, the Islamic
conquest predated
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the Crusades.
You know, where are
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we today? What,
what, what connections
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there with history on this?
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Is Global Jihad just something
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that's gonna pass you know,
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the, we saw it in 9/11 and maybe
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in a few years
time it will fade away,
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is it a passing phenomenon?
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You know, I don't
know there are a number of
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commentators who suggest that
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it is passing
and that it will fade
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because the Radicalness of it
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or the radical
leaders are becoming far
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and few between
even though you see the
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Talibanization of Afghanistan
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and parts of Pakistan whether
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it's Osama Bin
Laden or whichever leader
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seems to rise up
whether it's Al-Zahari
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or, or any other Taliban leader
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or Al Qaeda leader.
They seem to be on the margin
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so to speak and
have been marginalized
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because it seems like mainstream
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Islamic people, the
moderates so to speak
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are starting to
rise up and, and starting
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to shrug it off
or fight it back.
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And so, I don't know
how, how that's gonna
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take place, but
clearly we see a Civil War
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within, within Islamic itself.
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And so, I think what, when Bush,
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President Bush
invaded Iraq with our
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American troops, I
think was the collation
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of the willing. It wasn't just
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President Bush. They
jumped right into this
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major Civil War between
Shiites and, and Sunnis.
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And, and, and
most people don't know
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what the difference between
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Shiites and
Sunnis is? So, just for
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definitional
sake, yeah, we need,
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we need to
settle down this program
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before we would
explain it again.
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Shiites essentially believe that
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they're direct heirs of Mohammed
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and then it was passed
through the family line.
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Okay, specifically
Mohammed Ali dating
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way back and.
Who was the nephew,
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nephew of the
Prophet Mohammed? Back in the
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late 600s, yeah, or
early 700s excuse me.
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And so, they
thought the line passed
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through them, the ascension.
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And yet the Sunni
said, no, no, no the Khalif
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or the Khalif or
Khalifs, who would
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proceed where,
where. Yeah, the Khalif was
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Mohammed was the
first Khalif, it was
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Abu Akbar who, who
took it on became the
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first Khalif and,
and it was through
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the succession of
those Khalifs who were chosen
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by the people
ironically, somewhat
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democratic, but once
they came into office
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where, were
autocratic and dictatorial.
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Okay, and so
there was the two camps.
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That clearly 75
percent up to 80 percent
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and 15 to 20
percent were Shiites,
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and the 80 percent Sunnis.
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And so the Shiites
have been a minority mostly
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located in Iran,
where as all of the
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rest of the Arab, Arab
world and, and Indonesia
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and Southeast
Asia are, are Sunni,
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Arab Muslims for the most part.
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And so, you, you
see this; you see
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this Civil War and
we jumped right into it.
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Well, it, it, it's,
it's not the classic
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Civil War, if it's
a very small minority
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on one side. Yeah,
but they're a powerful
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minority the, the Shias and.
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Actually I, I agree
with you on the face of it,
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but when we're
talking about Iraq.
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I think that
something else that went down
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and we should
say, it is passing.
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The two ancient
factions in Islam kicked
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in there, but I
think what we did was
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energize, yes, in
Iraq a rivalry between
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Shiite Iranian interest, yes.
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And the Sunni rulers
of, of, of Saddam's Iraq,
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right. So, it was
really national proxies
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working out through
religious interests,
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exactly. That's
an overwhelmingly
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Islamic society.
And even Shiites in Iraq
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really do not side
with the Iranian government
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at all. They have
their differences big time.
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Well, when, when
things settle down
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we'll find out
that. It's a nationality;
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the immediate
reaction to the invasion
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there was, there
was a closing of ranks,
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it's my question.
Yes, but what's interesting
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to me is, if you
look back at history
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specifically even
the way Islam even
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mainstream moderate Islam,
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Islamic professors
here in United States.
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The way they
describe Islam goes way back
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to the founding, I
mean its goes back to Mecca,
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when Mohammed found
his way so to speak.
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And, and
supposedly found the Lord
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and, and started
writing his sayings,
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his claimed
sayings, which later became
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the Quran. He
was basically ousted
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by the pagan
Arabs there in Mecca,
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who were the
Quiresh so to speak,
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who worship this
fish God. And, and, they
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forcibly ejected
him. Yeah, yeah they did.
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And so, he went
off with his followers
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I don't how
many, presumably about
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a thousand or so. And,
and made his pilgrimage
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or Hijra, that
transition between Mecca
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and Madina. And
that Madina he supposedly
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brought about
harmony and religious freedom
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between Muslims,
Christians, Jews, Hindus
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and the like
and, and even Arabs.
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And He was the grand peacemaker
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and the supporter
of religious pluralism
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or religious
freedom, which I find
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very questionable
history. Well, one thing
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that you can't pick up
from the history during
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this period Mohammed
and his followers were
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almost like brigands.
And, and preyed on the
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travelers and, yes, non-Muslims,
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but definition
almost everyone else.
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And Christians and,
right, and quite cruel,
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a lot of the writings
in the Quran the, the date
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from that period or
the, the, the, I've got to
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watch my words
because there was all
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supposedly given by Gabriel,
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but, but
Gabriel's statements during
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that period are more war like,
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more intolerant,
yes, more vicious,
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it's definitely a
revenge, the attitude
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revenge. Once they gain power
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they became more benign now
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and the real
question is, which is the
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question you
could applied to the
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Old Testament versus the new.
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Do you sort of
dismiss this part of the Quran
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as, as irrelevant
because it just dates
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to that time. What do
you see these statements
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for old time
perhaps with the Quran
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there is a little
bit of both as with the
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Old Testament. But
we need to be aware
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as you say; there is this role,
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that was a clearly describable
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violent reaction by Mohammed
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and his followers to the Ostra.
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Their, their,
their situation of being
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ostracized. Yes,
they went to Madina
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and then they
gathered this loyal following
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and attacked Mecca in revenge.
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And ever since it's been known
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and, and many
scholars have written about it.
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Especially this guy
name Laurent Murawiec,
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who wrote this book called
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"The Mind of
Jihad." It's published by
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Cambridge University Press.
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And he, he suggest
very clearly in there
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that Islam has,
especially Radical Islam
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and he, he
qualifies himself. He says,
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Radical Islam, he says
I'm not speaking of this
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really moderate
Islam, but Radical Islam
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clearly has this
spirit of revenge,
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the revenge
factor. And so you know,
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Mohammed and his followers went
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and attacked
Mecca and, and defeated
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the Arabs and, and
it's become a Holy City
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along with
Madina and where people
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make their
pilgrimages. So, what you have
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is this contrast
that Laurent Murawiec
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points out versus
Christianity in this
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one sense and that
when John and James
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they're known as
the sons of Thunder
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in the New
Testament cry, ask Christ to
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bring down fire, bring down fire
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and destroy
Samaria because they had to
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shake off their
sandals and their with dust
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and so on out of
Samaria because they got
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tossed out. Christ
said, you don't know
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what Spirit you're
off. The spirit of revenge
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is not the spirit
of God essentially,
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but He was saying
to John and James.
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And I find that
interesting contrast
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that that one caught does it?
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I'm not trying to
you know, I guess,
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I'm not trying to
make moderate Islam
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this way. I'm just
saying this is the view
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that Radical
Islam picks up. Well,
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I, I heard a
conference of Islam,
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Islamist recently discussion
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their own
religion. And that was said
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quite
definitively it stuck with me.
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I listen to it
real time on the radio
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and they said,
Christianity says turn
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the other cheek,
but they said, that's
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not Islam. We say you hit us
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and we'll hit you
back twice harder, right.
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So, this is not a
marginal interpretation
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of Islam. The only
thing that you can discuss
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is how we see that?
You know, we, we might
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sort of see it as
shocking and dangerous
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they say that
this, this is what his
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followers of Mohammed and Allah.
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You know, they're
called to act that way.
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This is the
spiritual directive, but that,
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there is, there
is no real challenge
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over this, this attitude versus
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the other cheek. Well, then
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we've have to
ask. And it's not just
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Radical Islam, this is Islam.
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So, in
comparison then we've to ask
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ourselves what
motivated the Crusades
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during the time of
Pope Gregory the VII
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and Pope Urban
the II. I mean that
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that is a good, good
question to ask because
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clearly the
Crusades if we're going to be
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honest and fair
to our, ourselves
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and to our listeners
is what, what was the
00:10:00.62\00:10:03.49
bases for the
Crusades. And are we any better
00:10:03.50\00:10:08.04
then radical? It's
true the Crusades in the
00:10:08.05\00:10:11.27
Middle East that
just the word sets people
00:10:11.28\00:10:13.50
on the fire, a word
which George Bush used,
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yes, at the beginning.
Yes, a Crusade against
00:10:16.13\00:10:19.00
Radical Islam or
he using, used Radical
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Islam. He says
against terrorism, yes.
00:10:22.18\00:10:23.89
But the Crusades
was, was not a beginning
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point, it was a
flash point in an already
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began story. And
Islam had gone on the
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offensive swept
through of course Arabia.
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It had to control
that area up into Turkey.
00:10:36.88\00:10:40.23
And by the time of,
of the First Crusade
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they had taken over Jerusalem.
00:10:43.84\00:10:45.92
And, and Pope Urban responding.
00:10:45.93\00:10:49.96
They were knocking
on the doors of Europe.
00:10:49.97\00:10:51.96
That's right, well it
was a little bit later,
00:10:51.97\00:10:53.97
but Pope Urban
responding to an appeal
00:10:53.98\00:10:57.50
from Constantinople,
the other point of
00:10:57.51\00:10:59.36
Christian power,
right. Then historians
00:10:59.37\00:11:03.51
analyze this
whether he was just,
00:11:03.52\00:11:05.19
just really trying to
get some personal gain
00:11:05.20\00:11:07.71
from it and to one
up the, the emperor
00:11:07.72\00:11:10.28
in, in, in Constantinople
00:11:10.29\00:11:12.34
or to truly
respond to it spiritually,
00:11:12.35\00:11:14.78
but he, he spoke a good game,
00:11:14.79\00:11:16.69
got people fired up
and a motley crew of
00:11:16.70\00:11:19.16
tens of thousands of, of rulers
00:11:19.17\00:11:21.84
and they dwells
from Europe surged across
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and turned up at
the gates of Jerusalem.
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They were uncontrollable,
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they were, they were just like
00:11:27.10\00:11:29.44
the, the Radical
Islamic terrorist of today.
00:11:29.45\00:11:33.78
They were
prepared to do anything,
00:11:33.79\00:11:35.48
kill anyone all
in the name of God.
00:11:35.49\00:11:37.40
And things then
got worse from there
00:11:37.41\00:11:39.58
run on out. So,
Islam is correct in saying
00:11:39.59\00:11:42.21
the Crusades is
a very bad moment.
00:11:42.22\00:11:44.11
It's nothing to
be proud of from the
00:11:44.12\00:11:46.19
Christian point of
view, but it's not where
00:11:46.20\00:11:48.20
it all started,
that was the Christian
00:11:48.21\00:11:50.49
Western response to an already
00:11:50.50\00:11:52.55
dangerous series of
conquests that Islam
00:11:52.56\00:11:56.77
began as it swept up eventually
00:11:56.78\00:11:58.88
threatening the
very Gates of Vienna.
00:11:58.89\00:12:01.12
And, and, and of
Western Europe itself.
00:12:01.13\00:12:03.56
I always understood the Crusades
00:12:03.57\00:12:05.32
as being a part of
a vast attempt to take
00:12:05.33\00:12:09.48
the power out of
the hands of kings
00:12:09.49\00:12:11.59
and emperors. What
the powers of the Popes
00:12:11.60\00:12:14.01
thought they should
have. And that is the
00:12:14.02\00:12:16.06
ability to
basically direct its followers
00:12:16.07\00:12:19.00
to, to obey the
voice of the church
00:12:19.01\00:12:21.72
and so they'll obey
the voice of the emperor.
00:12:21.73\00:12:23.51
Yes, I, I, I
think you're correct on
00:12:23.52\00:12:25.05
that. It's really a
question of authority
00:12:25.06\00:12:27.74
Greg. And I'm sure
our viewers as they
00:12:27.75\00:12:31.05
listen to us
discuss the Crusades realize
00:12:31.06\00:12:33.62
that there was a lot
more at stake then just
00:12:33.63\00:12:35.37
the status of
Jerusalem as there is today.
00:12:35.38\00:12:38.15
When we talk about
Middle East Affairs
00:12:38.16\00:12:40.31
there are great
powers playing out
00:12:40.32\00:12:42.61
their concerns and
great religious issues
00:12:42.62\00:12:45.62
being played out
right before our eyes
00:12:45.63\00:12:47.47
indeed prophecy being
fulfilled. We'll be back
00:12:47.48\00:12:50.10
after the break
with further discussion.
00:12:50.11\00:12:51.79
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:13:01.30\00:13:04.82
much less publish a magazine,
00:13:04.83\00:13:06.78
but this year
Liberty, the Seventh-Day
00:13:06.79\00:13:09.88
Adventist voice
of religious freedom,
00:13:09.89\00:13:11.51
celebrates one
hundred years of doing
00:13:11.52\00:13:14.18
what it does best,
collecting, analyzing,
00:13:14.19\00:13:17.08
and reporting the
ebb and flow of religious
00:13:17.09\00:13:19.62
expression around the world.
00:13:19.63\00:13:21.16
Issue after issue.
Liberty has taken on
00:13:21.17\00:13:24.42
the tough assignments,
tracking down threats
00:13:24.43\00:13:26.92
to religious freedom
and exposing the work
00:13:26.93\00:13:28.71
of the devil in
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00:13:28.72\00:13:31.19
Governmental
interference, personal
00:13:31.20\00:13:33.40
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00:13:33.41\00:13:35.26
even religious
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00:13:35.27\00:13:37.54
within the
church community itself
00:13:37.55\00:13:39.08
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:39.09\00:13:41.55
Liberty exists for
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00:13:41.56\00:13:45.03
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maintain that all important
00:13:45.04\00:13:47.75
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00:13:47.76\00:13:49.56
while recognizing
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00:13:49.57\00:13:52.10
in such a struggle.
During the past century,
00:13:52.11\00:13:54.85
Liberty has experienced
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00:13:54.86\00:13:57.37
but it remains on
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00:13:57.38\00:14:00.38
inspired leadership of
a long line of dedicated
00:14:00.39\00:14:02.95
Adventist Editors,
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00:14:02.96\00:14:05.12
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00:14:05.13\00:14:07.11
and the foresight
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00:14:07.12\00:14:10.54
New England.
One hundred years of
00:14:10.55\00:14:12.12
struggle, one
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00:14:12.13\00:14:14.87
religious freedom
isn't just about political
00:14:14.88\00:14:17.64
machines and
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00:14:17.65\00:14:19.63
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00:14:19.64\00:14:22.93
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00:14:22.94\00:14:25.82
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:25.83\00:14:27.87
Thanks to the prayers
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00:14:27.88\00:14:30.50
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Adventists everywhere.
00:14:30.51\00:14:32.47
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00:14:36.81\00:14:38.99
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00:14:39.00\00:14:42.22
and work in a
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00:14:42.23\00:14:45.01
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bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:45.02\00:14:48.83
Welcome back to the
Liberty Insider before
00:14:59.19\00:15:02.04
the break we were talking about
00:15:02.05\00:15:03.70
the Crusades as part
of a larger discussion
00:15:03.71\00:15:06.56
about Jihadism through the ages.
00:15:06.57\00:15:09.71
You know, the
Crusades have a, have a
00:15:09.72\00:15:14.41
complex origin,
although one very clear
00:15:14.42\00:15:16.76
contributing factor
was, is, is you remind to me
00:15:16.77\00:15:19.16
the invested
controversy. Messenger
00:15:19.17\00:15:21.09
controversy, this is
a matter of authority
00:15:21.10\00:15:22.56
between church and state. Yeah,
00:15:22.57\00:15:23.72
it was a matter of
authority who, who had
00:15:23.73\00:15:25.39
the right to crown
who, was it the sole right
00:15:25.40\00:15:29.15
of the church to give the crown
00:15:29.16\00:15:32.23
and scepter to
the emperor or king
00:15:32.24\00:15:34.18
or was it the
right of kings to appoint
00:15:34.19\00:15:36.95
bishops throughout the realm.
00:15:36.96\00:15:38.31
Essentially that's
what the controversy
00:15:38.32\00:15:40.13
was over. Who had,
who had the authority
00:15:40.14\00:15:42.46
and so, what you've
with the crowning of Pepin
00:15:42.47\00:15:45.82
the Short and
then Charlemagne on
00:15:45.83\00:15:48.14
Christmas day of 800
A.D., or you go clear
00:15:48.15\00:15:51.01
to 1804, when
Napoleons smashed the crown
00:15:51.02\00:15:55.20
out of Pius, the
sixth or seventh's hand
00:15:55.21\00:15:57.82
and crowned himself,
which was very symbolic
00:15:57.83\00:16:00.57
of saying, hey you
the church are not gonna
00:16:00.58\00:16:02.61
tell me the head of
the state, the emperor of
00:16:02.62\00:16:05.11
the realm what to do?
Okay, so that that has
00:16:05.12\00:16:08.45
always been at
stake. And so, in during
00:16:08.46\00:16:11.25
the time of the
Crusades or just prior to that,
00:16:11.26\00:16:13.34
Pope Gregory the
VII and in fact starting
00:16:13.35\00:16:16.40
with Pope Gregory the
VII, he is the one that
00:16:16.41\00:16:18.06
established the
college of the cardinals,
00:16:18.07\00:16:19.63
which took the power
of the out of the hand
00:16:19.64\00:16:22.03
to the emperor
to appoint bishops
00:16:22.04\00:16:23.59
throughout the
realm, which was the first
00:16:23.60\00:16:25.72
huge step. And then
of course telling monks
00:16:25.73\00:16:30.56
with the help of
Peter the Hermit.
00:16:30.57\00:16:32.15
And others, these warrior monks
00:16:32.16\00:16:34.29
and the people
basically they needed to make,
00:16:34.30\00:16:36.57
they needed to make a pilgrimage
00:16:36.58\00:16:37.91
to the holy
hand. And as you say,
00:16:37.92\00:16:39.44
Muslims were knocking
on the door of Europe,
00:16:39.45\00:16:41.64
but at the same
time. You remember
00:16:41.65\00:16:42.70
what Pope Urban did
by the way he stated
00:16:42.71\00:16:44.38
they had a clear past to heaven,
00:16:44.39\00:16:46.72
yes, and got a
general indulgence.
00:16:46.73\00:16:47.70
But what did is they
took the power out of
00:16:47.71\00:16:50.00
the hands of kings and
emperors by doing that,
00:16:50.01\00:16:53.09
right, it took the
power out of the kings
00:16:53.10\00:16:54.81
of the hands and the emperor,
00:16:54.82\00:16:55.89
hands of the emperors
and it basically gave it
00:16:55.90\00:16:58.45
to the church, gave
it back to itself by
00:16:58.46\00:17:00.73
controlling the world of people.
00:17:00.74\00:17:01.94
It, it rallied the
people up especially
00:17:01.95\00:17:04.47
with Pope Gregory
the VII and Urban the II
00:17:04.48\00:17:06.38
preaching towards
to the people, yes.
00:17:06.39\00:17:08.95
They circuited
the kings and emperors
00:17:08.96\00:17:11.28
and rallied the
people and they did
00:17:11.29\00:17:13.37
their bidding. Thus
it forced the hands of
00:17:13.38\00:17:15.35
kings and
emperors to follow the role
00:17:15.36\00:17:17.54
of the church,
which at that point,
00:17:17.55\00:17:19.56
it was really the
beginning point of
00:17:19.57\00:17:21.75
when the church basically with
00:17:21.76\00:17:24.23
Charlemagne crowing and so on,
00:17:24.24\00:17:26.07
where the
church begin to dictate
00:17:26.08\00:17:28.41
it's will to the
church. Right, just move
00:17:28.42\00:17:31.73
side ways from the discussion,
00:17:31.74\00:17:32.95
but to give it a, a
contemporary flavor.
00:17:32.96\00:17:35.58
Many people may not realize
00:17:35.59\00:17:37.87
or even heard of it,
but not too many years ago
00:17:37.88\00:17:39.91
we had a, a similar
conflict between the
00:17:39.92\00:17:42.70
Roman Catholic Church and the
00:17:42.71\00:17:44.89
Chinese government.
Oh! Yes. You remember that?
00:17:44.90\00:17:47.61
Yes, the, the government was
00:17:47.62\00:17:49.46
appointing the
bishops. Its still ongoing,
00:17:49.47\00:17:51.11
that struggle was still there
00:17:51.12\00:17:52.21
hasn't been
resolve. There's been a minor
00:17:52.22\00:17:54.90
resolution, but not
fully resolved, right.
00:17:54.91\00:17:56.58
That reached a sort of
accommodation of sorts,
00:17:56.59\00:17:59.63
but the question
of authority hasn't.
00:17:59.64\00:18:01.40
And that's exactly
what. The Pope gets to choose
00:18:01.41\00:18:04.52
his own, but it
has to be ratified
00:18:04.53\00:18:06.90
and backed by the authority of
00:18:06.91\00:18:09.37
the Chinese
government. And, and while the,
00:18:09.38\00:18:12.34
I hope our viewers reading
00:18:12.35\00:18:15.16
Liberty Magazine.
We've had a great series
00:18:15.17\00:18:16.85
just concluding
on the reformation,
00:18:16.86\00:18:18.92
the English
reformation starting with
00:18:18.93\00:18:20.57
Henry the eighth.
And part of the point
00:18:20.58\00:18:23.42
of the article
was to disprove what,
00:18:23.43\00:18:25.99
what revision is
to trying to claim,
00:18:26.00\00:18:27.60
it was just you know,
a, a Randy English King
00:18:27.61\00:18:31.25
you know wanted the
church to agree on his,
00:18:31.26\00:18:34.31
his serial
marriages, it's not that simple
00:18:34.32\00:18:37.19
by any stretch. In
fact, that's hardly to know.
00:18:37.20\00:18:39.90
But part of his,
his wanting to be
00:18:39.91\00:18:42.71
independent from Rome really was
00:18:42.72\00:18:44.14
precisely this. He
wanted the authority
00:18:44.15\00:18:46.23
over dictating
who the, the prelates
00:18:46.24\00:18:49.22
in his realm would
be, and he was in a.
00:18:49.23\00:18:51.69
And, and even his
champion Archbishop
00:18:51.70\00:18:54.64
Wolsey really
was, was some on the,
00:18:54.65\00:18:58.93
he had maneuvered
it into that position.
00:18:58.94\00:19:01.25
And, and expected him
to do the king's bidding
00:19:01.26\00:19:04.02
rather than the Pope's bidding.
00:19:04.03\00:19:05.24
With Islam you've
a different paradigm.
00:19:05.25\00:19:06.87
You've a totally
different paradigm,
00:19:06.88\00:19:08.47
you don't even have,
there is no hierarchy,
00:19:08.48\00:19:11.00
there is no
hierarchy, no hierarchical
00:19:11.01\00:19:11.99
structural,
hierarchical structure of church
00:19:12.00\00:19:14.54
and State per
say, it's basically one
00:19:14.55\00:19:16.77
and the same I
mean the Khalif is the
00:19:16.78\00:19:20.44
supreme head and at
least in ancient Islam.
00:19:20.45\00:19:23.44
And then you basically
everybody answer to his
00:19:23.45\00:19:27.19
dictates, which was
supposedly came directly
00:19:27.20\00:19:30.52
down from all us. So,
you've basically this,
00:19:30.53\00:19:33.68
this expansionist
movement that started
00:19:33.69\00:19:36.82
knocking on the
doors of Europe especially
00:19:36.83\00:19:38.22
surrounded and
the Iberian Peninsula,
00:19:38.23\00:19:39.62
North Africa and then
coming up through Spain.
00:19:39.63\00:19:41.43
And so, you had
Europe basically surrounded
00:19:41.44\00:19:44.76
and of course Charlemagne became
00:19:44.77\00:19:46.09
the grand
champion of fighting off
00:19:46.10\00:19:48.13
the Saracens
and, and the Berber's
00:19:48.14\00:19:50.30
and the, and the
Muslims who were,
00:19:50.31\00:19:52.55
were encroaching upon Europe
00:19:52.56\00:19:54.12
and that begin
basically the formation
00:19:54.13\00:19:56.99
of the nation
state, nation states
00:19:57.00\00:20:00.75
in Europe and
developed essentially
00:20:00.76\00:20:03.04
what became,
what we now we known
00:20:03.05\00:20:04.66
as the European
Union, right, and
00:20:04.67\00:20:06.50
the European Nation.
I, found this program
00:20:06.51\00:20:08.94
before and I thinking
you on another program
00:20:08.95\00:20:11.76
mentioned that
the European Union
00:20:11.77\00:20:13.86
in some way is
the, it was the modern
00:20:13.87\00:20:16.19
manifestation of the
Holy Roman Empire, yes.
00:20:16.20\00:20:19.09
It's, it's geographically very
00:20:19.10\00:20:20.76
similar and the dynamic that's,
00:20:20.77\00:20:22.42
that's forming it is
not so. And you can't just
00:20:22.43\00:20:24.48
right off the
European as some liberal
00:20:24.49\00:20:26.85
you know, you know, entity,
00:20:26.86\00:20:33.15
it is something
that is something that's
00:20:33.16\00:20:36.54
forming that
you've to watch overtime.
00:20:36.55\00:20:38.64
Well, its something
that that there is a,
00:20:38.65\00:20:40.29
the monsterable
need for, a collation to
00:20:40.30\00:20:42.55
strengthen the hand versus China
00:20:42.56\00:20:44.57
or in the US.
But I mean serious,
00:20:44.58\00:20:45.75
but prophetically speaking.
00:20:45.76\00:20:46.79
But it also as an
old logic they're,
00:20:46.80\00:20:48.61
they're, they're
reinventing something
00:20:48.62\00:20:50.38
that once existed before, right.
00:20:50.39\00:20:51.95
And, and yes
talking about prophecy
00:20:51.96\00:20:53.81
I think this relates
directly to the image of
00:20:53.82\00:20:56.09
Daniel too, yeah.
These are the feet of iron
00:20:56.10\00:20:58.36
and of clay, it's
not a great union,
00:20:58.37\00:21:00.34
it probably will,
will prove pretty short
00:21:00.35\00:21:04.17
lived, but it's a,
yeah, it's an attempt
00:21:04.18\00:21:05.78
a later day attempt to this,
00:21:05.79\00:21:07.56
to really much bring the entire
00:21:07.57\00:21:09.61
western world
under. Well, it's basically
00:21:09.62\00:21:12.44
what we had with
the confederate states
00:21:12.45\00:21:14.18
before we had a
strong central government.
00:21:14.19\00:21:15.74
It's a confederacy.
So, you've a confederacy
00:21:15.75\00:21:18.21
of European nation states, which
00:21:18.22\00:21:21.24
really was a
total failure here in
00:21:21.25\00:21:23.28
United States in
terms of our confederacy,
00:21:23.29\00:21:25.04
but in terms of
their confederacy
00:21:25.05\00:21:26.74
seems be working.
And how long lasts
00:21:26.75\00:21:28.80
who knows, but we
knew know that they
00:21:28.81\00:21:30.91
play a
significant prophetic role in,
00:21:30.92\00:21:33.16
in Revelation
17. Yeah, well we're,
00:21:33.17\00:21:34.84
we're participants
in this or observers
00:21:34.85\00:21:37.07
in this and we'll
see where it goes.
00:21:37.08\00:21:38.73
Radical Jihad is
this main; it's a question
00:21:38.74\00:21:43.63
we asked at the
beginning. Is this
00:21:43.64\00:21:44.84
mainstream Islam
or it's a something
00:21:44.85\00:21:46.81
totally aberrant?
It's, it's, it's aberrant
00:21:46.82\00:21:50.28
to a degree,
but Laurent Murawiec
00:21:50.29\00:21:51.76
and his book "The Mind Of Jihad"
00:21:51.77\00:21:53.15
suggest that it, it
does come from the roots
00:21:53.16\00:21:55.72
of, of, of Islam
even from the Quran
00:21:55.73\00:21:58.01
and he, he tries to
demonstrate through,
00:21:58.02\00:21:59.61
this throughout.
Basically he calls it
00:21:59.62\00:22:02.07
the cult of blood,
in the cult of force.
00:22:02.08\00:22:04.48
And what it means
by this, it's basically
00:22:04.49\00:22:06.94
the idea of
beheading, the idea of slashing
00:22:06.95\00:22:09.98
the throat and
cutting off the head.
00:22:09.99\00:22:11.32
It's almost a ritualistic human
00:22:11.33\00:22:14.04
sacrifices, if
they are pleasing Allah
00:22:14.05\00:22:16.22
and, and this is
what he, he is, he is an
00:22:16.23\00:22:18.41
anthropologist
and, and he comes out of
00:22:18.42\00:22:20.50
from an
anthropological point of view.
00:22:20.51\00:22:22.12
And so, you
know, you, you get into
00:22:22.13\00:22:24.71
that discussion, but
he also compares it with
00:22:24.72\00:22:26.70
Christianity and,
and sort of a comparison
00:22:26.71\00:22:30.57
contrast and he is
obliviously bias to
00:22:30.58\00:22:33.00
Christianity, but
you remember this,
00:22:33.01\00:22:34.49
this author is
a Liberal, French,
00:22:34.50\00:22:37.32
political scientists as well as
00:22:37.33\00:22:39.40
anthropologist, so.
Let me through in another
00:22:39.41\00:22:41.18
testament, yeah. You
remember Osama Bin Laden
00:22:41.19\00:22:43.25
important figure in
this, yeah, Jihadism,
00:22:43.26\00:22:45.32
but we haven't
heard much from likely.
00:22:45.33\00:22:46.98
Probably still
alive, but at an early point
00:22:46.99\00:22:49.83
in this. He said that
they had the advantage
00:22:49.84\00:22:52.19
on the west, which
remains to be seem,
00:22:52.20\00:22:55.06
but he said the
trouble is, he says,
00:22:55.07\00:22:56.49
you love life. He
says, yes, we love death.
00:22:56.50\00:22:58.65
Exactly and you
know, that's what he
00:22:58.66\00:22:59.74
points out. And, and
you could passed it off,
00:22:59.75\00:23:01.40
at the time was dismissed is,
00:23:01.41\00:23:02.57
as Al-Qaeda
silliness, but straight from
00:23:02.58\00:23:06.11
the Quran. It is,
this, this whole idea
00:23:06.12\00:23:07.99
of the virgins in
heaven and earth, right. And,
00:23:08.00\00:23:10.00
and, and the
Quran is very strong on,
00:23:10.01\00:23:12.59
on the death by
Jihad. And they view this
00:23:12.60\00:23:16.11
world and this
life as worthless,
00:23:16.12\00:23:17.46
they see no value in
it. Right and something
00:23:17.47\00:23:19.48
that needs to be
mentioned the, the Quran
00:23:19.49\00:23:22.59
is the
essential writings through
00:23:22.60\00:23:25.49
Gabriel to, to
Mohammed. But parallel to what
00:23:25.50\00:23:30.00
the Bible has with the Gospel's
00:23:30.01\00:23:31.48
and the, the
laws, yeah, and so on.
00:23:31.49\00:23:33.17
There are
Hadith's, many writings that
00:23:33.18\00:23:36.33
have equal,
almost equal authority.
00:23:36.34\00:23:38.24
And there are several Gadith
00:23:38.25\00:23:40.18
these totally on
Jihad. Yes, and that's what
00:23:40.19\00:23:43.11
he points out.
And, and you read those
00:23:43.12\00:23:44.24
throughout the book,
yes. And, and you see
00:23:44.25\00:23:46.40
that a-Qaida
was not so aberrant,
00:23:46.41\00:23:48.10
it's out of sink with
history because I think
00:23:48.11\00:23:51.74
we started
saying in this program
00:23:51.75\00:23:53.20
that that they
feel under thread,
00:23:53.21\00:23:54.84
there is no question
that that Radical Islam
00:23:54.85\00:23:57.75
or, or historic
Islam is threatened by
00:23:57.76\00:23:59.73
modernization, by
the rulers in their own
00:23:59.74\00:24:02.09
countries and, and
many of the Middle Eastern
00:24:02.10\00:24:04.07
countries and it's
sort of stretching itself
00:24:04.08\00:24:06.77
and saying, this is
what really Islam is?
00:24:06.78\00:24:08.74
But they're ceasing
on legitimate writings
00:24:08.75\00:24:11.99
and doctrine for, for conflict.
00:24:12.00\00:24:13.99
And I don't know
how we deal with it
00:24:14.00\00:24:16.23
adequately because
what we say Moderate Islam
00:24:16.24\00:24:19.08
is what I would say
on Christianity very much
00:24:19.09\00:24:21.61
these, these are
nominal Christians.
00:24:21.62\00:24:23.41
People that just
born in that society,
00:24:23.42\00:24:25.77
but not
necessarily taking deeply to
00:24:25.78\00:24:28.35
themselves those
beliefs and being willing to
00:24:28.36\00:24:30.11
live them. And so,
what we really is seeing
00:24:30.12\00:24:32.24
there is, I believe
is, is a conflict between
00:24:32.25\00:24:35.33
faithfulness to the
foundational principles
00:24:36.34\00:24:39.11
of their sensible
belief and those that are,
00:24:39.12\00:24:42.23
that are more understanding
00:24:42.24\00:24:44.01
and just wanting
to embarrassed by.
00:24:44.02\00:24:45.57
I don't know how
that's lost to, to lose
00:24:45.58\00:24:48.73
that same battle
within Christianity
00:24:48.74\00:24:50.35
is to go the way of secularism.
00:24:50.36\00:24:52.66
Are we able to
push Islam to sort of
00:24:52.67\00:24:56.65
forget it's legitimate pass?
00:24:56.66\00:24:58.17
It's, it's,
it's a huge question.
00:24:58.18\00:24:59.73
I think what
you've here is something
00:24:59.74\00:25:02.05
that's very
important to remember
00:25:02.06\00:25:03.56
and that is something
Islam and Christianity
00:25:03.57\00:25:06.23
have in common is
this doctrine of the
00:25:06.24\00:25:08.77
second coming of Jesus Christ.
00:25:08.78\00:25:10.02
Now, this is what's
interesting obviously
00:25:10.03\00:25:12.02
Muslim or Islam does
not view Jesus Christ
00:25:12.03\00:25:14.87
in the same way you and I do.
00:25:14.88\00:25:16.61
Jesus Christ is merely
a good man not the divine
00:25:16.62\00:25:19.65
son of God in
Islam. He is a prophet
00:25:19.66\00:25:21.84
sent by Allah at
the last day to unite
00:25:21.85\00:25:24.44
the nations of the
world to follow Allah
00:25:24.45\00:25:26.49
for a thousand
years of peace and safety
00:25:26.50\00:25:28.21
on this earth. And
that's what Christianity
00:25:28.22\00:25:30.65
and Islam have
in common especially
00:25:30.66\00:25:32.49
much of the Christian world,
00:25:32.50\00:25:33.66
they believe in this whole idea
00:25:33.67\00:25:36.33
because they
don't; there is this
00:25:36.34\00:25:37.90
misunderstanding
by the true nature of
00:25:37.91\00:25:39.09
Christ Kingdom. As if
Christ is going to come
00:25:39.10\00:25:41.87
and establish a,
his kingdom on the earth
00:25:41.88\00:25:45.07
for a thousand years.
And they're gonna help
00:25:45.08\00:25:47.31
him do it,
okay. Which gives the,
00:25:47.32\00:25:49.22
but goes back to the
Crusade mentality, sure.
00:25:49.23\00:25:51.33
And so, you have
this conflict, it's not
00:25:51.34\00:25:53.75
so much a clash
of civilizations as
00:25:53.76\00:25:56.46
Samuel
Huntington or Bernard Lewis,
00:25:56.47\00:25:58.25
it's a religious
visual. It's a clash of kingdoms
00:25:58.26\00:26:00.76
between heaven and earth,
00:26:00.77\00:26:02.07
much of the
religious world is preparing to
00:26:02.08\00:26:04.23
receive a
counterfeit savior Satan
00:26:04.24\00:26:07.13
coming as Christ.
That's what amazing
00:26:07.14\00:26:09.51
in terms of the whole prophetic
00:26:09.52\00:26:10.61
I know. And much
of the Islamic world
00:26:10.62\00:26:12.33
that was
expecting the coming of the
00:26:12.34\00:26:13.73
12th Imam, yes, which of course
00:26:13.74\00:26:15.83
he comes with
Mohammed and with Jesus?
00:26:15.84\00:26:17.97
Yes and so friends we
have here is a movement
00:26:17.98\00:26:22.46
that we shouldn't
just be on one side versus
00:26:22.47\00:26:24.77
Islam or okay,
Islam versus Christianity
00:26:24.78\00:26:28.39
get all worked
up into emotional,
00:26:28.40\00:26:29.87
irrational rather.
What we see here is
00:26:29.88\00:26:32.75
preparations by
Satan to bring about
00:26:32.76\00:26:35.91
the most grand
deception, illusion
00:26:35.92\00:26:39.04
ever in history to
deceive the whole world
00:26:39.05\00:26:41.71
by pretending
to be Christ at His
00:26:41.72\00:26:43.55
second coming. We
need not be deceived,
00:26:43.56\00:26:46.33
we need to be prepared.
00:26:46.34\00:26:47.44
Unending eternal
war is what John Milton
00:26:50.22\00:26:54.56
has Satan saying in his
monumental work Paradise
00:26:54.57\00:26:59.81
Lost. What he was
doing was recounting
00:26:59.82\00:27:02.67
in a dramatic dynamic
way the biblical account
00:27:02.68\00:27:05.66
of the war in heaven
between Satan the rebel,
00:27:05.67\00:27:09.42
and God and His
way of righteousness.
00:27:09.43\00:27:12.86
Through the ages in
our fallen state here
00:27:12.87\00:27:16.30
on this earth
inheriting that Paradise Lost.
00:27:16.31\00:27:19.68
It is being a
temptation for many,
00:27:19.69\00:27:22.90
who are
motivated by your intents,
00:27:22.91\00:27:27.82
enthusiasm for
religion. They think that they
00:27:27.83\00:27:29.98
could take up the
sword, that they could
00:27:29.99\00:27:32.40
perpetrate violence
upon another human being
00:27:32.41\00:27:34.71
in the name of God.
The Old Testament shows
00:27:34.72\00:27:38.65
that God alone
can exact vengeance.
00:27:38.66\00:27:41.19
The New Testament reiterates,
00:27:41.20\00:27:43.02
that we are
called to love and show
00:27:43.03\00:27:45.55
forbearance until
that great Day of Judgment,
00:27:45.56\00:27:47.64
it's to be sure
the judgment is coming.
00:27:47.65\00:27:50.45
We see the signs
thickening about us,
00:27:50.46\00:27:52.73
but whether it's a
Jihadist, whether it is
00:27:52.74\00:27:56.42
in an Abortion
clinic, Obama or whether
00:27:56.43\00:27:58.69
it is just
violent intolerance of
00:27:58.70\00:28:00.78
any other. We know
that this will not stand.
00:28:00.79\00:28:04.46
This is Lincoln
Steed for Liberty Insider.
00:28:04.89\00:28:09.12