Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program
that brings you up to date
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news, views and
information and of course
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discussion on breaking
religious liberty issues.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine
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and with me
today is Greg Hamilton.
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Thanks for coming back on the
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program Greg,
not the first time.
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Let's discuss
something very interesting,
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it's currently news
as we sit here today,
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but I'm sure in
the months to come
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it'll still be discussed.
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The nomination of
Judge Sonia Sotomayor,
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as Supreme Court Justice by
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President Barack
Obama, coming into this
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presidency was
excepted that the at least
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one maybe two and
its happened quicker than
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I think people realized,
where we going with this?
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She's already shown
as any nominate certain
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contention you
know those people that
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defer on one thing or another.
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While some, some
Republicans have called
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her a racist for
some of her remarks which
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you know she said
that as a Hispanic woman
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that she was more
qualified to discuss
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certain issues
then maybe a white male,
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then an old white male yes.
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You're married you
know your wife will
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tell you that often
that women can see things
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more clearly then men, yes,
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I would tend to
dismiss that on some level.
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That's sorted of in
debated, so we're not
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gonna talk about
that here per say but
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what I see is, I
don't see any change
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in the make up of
important in terms of
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direction of its
decision. Although there are
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certainly even
liberal groups who think that
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maybe Judge Sotomayor,
because she's a Catholic
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may actually be in
favor of cutting back or
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limiting
abortion rights and so on.
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So that is a concern
of Naral and other groups
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regarding Pro-Choice movement.
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But on the other hand,
the religious right and
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the political right,
see her as a major problem
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because it doesn't
really do anything to bolster
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their strength
on the court as they
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currently have it,
they want to shift that
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conservative, it's not
a majority yet but they
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want to make it into
a strong majority and
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so they're not quite there yet.
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But disappointment
is very interesting,
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because it's
another Catholic on the
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Supreme court,
there is two Jews,
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one old
Protestant, John Paul Stevens,
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who is on there,
he's 89-years-old,
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when I talked to
Senator Patrick Leahy,
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who sits on the
chairs as Senate Judiciary
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Committee, a
Senator from Vermont.
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When I was about heroes yeah!
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When I was talking to
him in Portland a year ago.
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He was saying
that you know Obama,
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really, or not Obama
but whoever is elected as a
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Democratic president
that time will not really
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be able to make a
significant change on the
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Supreme court,
all he'll be doing is
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protecting the
Democrats interests,
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their turf so to
speak on the Supreme court.
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So, judge
Sotomayor, Sonia Sotomayor is
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someone who being
Catholic just adds to
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the Catholic
majority, currently there is
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Chief Justice John
Roberts, Samuel Alito,
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Justice Antonin
Scalia, Clarence Thomas,
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and Justice Anthony
Kennedy, all Catholics,
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being five out of nine
and this will bring it to six.
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Six, yes and what's
interesting about that is
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Anthony Kennedy
who's somewhat of a
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moderate and
now Judge Sotomayor,
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who's clearly a
liberal, shows you the
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great divide in
the Catholic church on
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political issues in
the United States and it
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shows the Liberal
Conservative divide
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that has
existed for a long time.
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And so, you know,
it's to me very interesting
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that it shows that
the Catholic church has
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thrived through
the American process of
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Religious Freedom,
which has allowed no one
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to be tested on
the basis of their
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religious
beliefs or public office.
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Well, the Constitution
is very plain and we keep
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repeating on this
program but while it might
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be significant
through the point of history
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that there are
six out of nine with
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Judge Sotomayor's confirmation,
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there is nothing
illegal about it, nothing wrong,
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where I think its
remarkable as in the
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negative on Protestantism,
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not on Catholicism, yes it is.
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A society that was
once overwhelmingly
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Protestant has
now faded back in many
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positions and the Supreme
court is almost exhibit A,
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it's not just the Supreme court,
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you could say the same
Senate or the Congress.
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So many Catholics have moved in,
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it's their right, there
is nothing wrong with that.
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But why, where have
all the Protestants gone?
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Mark Noll, a Professor
at Notre Dame University,
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wrote a book called
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The Scandal of
the Evangelical Mind,
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and what's interesting
is it coincides with an
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article by Joseph
Bottum recently in
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First Things Journal, which,
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the title of it was
Protestantism is Dead.
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And that is that
Protestantism, really
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especially with
it's Public School System
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which was started by
Protestants six years ago
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in United States
through Horace Mann
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and other people,
basically has hit a
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dead end, it's
become so secular in it's
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approach that its lost all basis
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for upholding
its faith and values
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throughout the United States.
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And so, the Catholic
schools on the other hand
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has gone out of their
way to maintain its purity
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so to speak and
to produce top notch
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academics legally
as well as academically
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in all fields and he
says that's the scandal of
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the evangelical
mind, is they don't have
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much of a mind left and
that's interesting coming
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from top academics
scholars looking at this
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and Mark Noll, even
though he teaches at
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Notre Dame
University, he is a Protestant,
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he used to teach
at Wheaton, Illinois.
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To summarize it another way,
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I think
Protestantism has lost it's
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sense of identity, yes.
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Even the term
protesting, what are we
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protesting
against, yes, the secular
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humanism is seen, anything goes.
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So, these are the
Catholic doctrinal
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viewpoint which they came from,
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I don't think
there's much understanding of
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why Protestantism
versus Catholicism
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and the Catholic
church is, is a very intact
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structure that's
got long-term goals,
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the education system.
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I think it's plugged on and it's
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kept it's identity,
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Protestantism is
sort of withering away.
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Catholics have led
out on the leading issues,
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whether it's
abortion, issues of Euthanasia,
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Stem cell
research, gay marriage and
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other issues, not
that I'm applauding the
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Catholic church here
as per say but I'm just
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saying, I don't
wanna put too much on them
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and give them a big
head but the problem
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that I see is that
Rome so to speak is
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leading
Protestantism in America and
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America is just
following in, in line.
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Rome has taken, with
their leadership, yeah
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and that happened
about 20 years ago,
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there was clear,
there was some decision
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they would lead
on an immoral agenda.
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I don't know if I
ever mentioned it here,
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but my father who
led out in our churches
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temperance
movement. He was in Africa
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run into denominational
meeting there once
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and he was pushing
that we need to take a
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moral stand on
the anti-alcohol issue
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and someone, not an Adventist,
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I don't even
think he was a Catholic
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but someone
said, if you told the
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Pope about this, he
seems interested in this.
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And my father
sort of set back and
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thought for a
minute, well no and then
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within a few months
of that the Pope went
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to Poland and he told
then there he says abstain.
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And they chanted back
Father, we will abstain.
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And then I myself
was present not too long
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after that at a
convention in Nice, France,
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where Jesuit priests
asked my father to come
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to Rome and meet
the Pope and my father
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wasn't sure how
this would flow in our
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Adventist-Protestant
leadership and he says
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well I'll come on
one condition that the
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Pope after we met
comes out and says,
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tells the faithful
to give up alcohol.
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Now, you know it's part
of the, the sacrament, yeah.
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And the priest thought
for a minute this Jesuit
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and he said yes, I
think that can be arranged.
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Well to me this
is all consist with,
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with not a bad thing
at all, but it's just an
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interesting policy
that Rome has taken the
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moral high ground
and for the all the,
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the radical rhetoric
from the religious right.
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I don't think on
you know on abortion
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and so on, you're right.
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I don't think they've
really got that high rate
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that the Catholic
church has maintained
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on that and other issues.
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What I find fascinating
in my research is that
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when you look at
the domestic issues that
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pretty much prevail
here in the United States
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politically and political
discourse whether it be
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on Fox News
Network or CNN or wherever
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is you see these internal church
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disputes within the
Roman Catholic church
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between Liberals
and Conservatives.
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Whether it be on
abortion, which Roman Catholic
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church here in United States is,
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is somewhat divided
on, now let's face it.
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Whether it would be Euthanasia,
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Steam Cell Research,
gay marriage, and so on.
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Any of those
issues are pretty much
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internal
discussions within the church
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and it then transients
into political discourse,
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that's what I
find fascinating and,
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that's true even when
it comes to Foreign Policy.
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So, I think that
when Mark Noll talks
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about this scandal
of the evangelical mind,
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it's something we ought
to take seriously and I,
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I really believe
Lincoln that Seventh-day
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Adventist
Christians as Protestants
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have been called
for such a time as this.
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Because it seems
that the Protestant world
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is so weak, it's lagging behind.
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It's reminding of
it's heritage, yeah and,
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and somehow the Lord
has called us for a time
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as this, not to
necessarily be hostile or
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antagonistic to Rome
or the Catholic church but
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to speak truth and
speak it in a powerful way.
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It's very interesting
they has been dialogues in
00:10:10.65\00:10:13.23
the last few decades
between Rome and Lutherans.
00:10:13.24\00:10:16.24
And Rome accepted I think
00:10:16.63\00:10:18.10
perhaps for some
strategic advantage.
00:10:18.52\00:10:21.11
They accepted what
Luther said was, was
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valid to a point but
there was a misunderstanding
00:10:23.97\00:10:26.17
about how they
proceeded from that point.
00:10:26.59\00:10:28.36
And even Luther
himself I don't think
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indented to split from
Rome and, that's correct yeah.
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I think perhaps he
should have, there was,
00:10:35.53\00:10:37.24
there was some
big issues at play.
00:10:37.25\00:10:38.45
But what you said
about debates within a
00:10:38.46\00:10:41.12
church are very true,
we have them within our
00:10:41.13\00:10:43.20
Adventist Church, there's
Liberals and Conservatives.
00:10:43.21\00:10:45.31
But do our debates
within our church transient
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into Political
discourse on the national level?
00:10:47.89\00:10:50.30
No, no. Not even.
So you know we have
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this dynamic works out
it's very significant and,
00:10:53.15\00:10:55.36
and back to Judge
Sotomayor, this is a
00:10:55.37\00:10:57.86
little part of the
discussion but I think
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at the moment she's
largely caught up in the
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Liberal-Conservatives
political debate.
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I do believe that is
a forgo conclusion that,
00:11:04.17\00:11:08.26
that she will be
confirmed, I really can't see.
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I personally
think she's gonna be a
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surprise nominee, when
she's actually confirmed
00:11:12.55\00:11:15.09
on the court which I
think will be by a wide margin.
00:11:15.10\00:11:17.30
Once she's actually
on the court I think
00:11:17.66\00:11:19.38
she's gonna be a
surprise to a lot of people
00:11:19.39\00:11:21.14
and I think she's
gonna disappoint and make
00:11:21.53\00:11:23.95
some people that would have been
00:11:23.96\00:11:25.52
normally happy, upset.
00:11:25.53\00:11:27.08
Well, that's pretty
much true with every
00:11:27.09\00:11:28.50
Supreme Court Justice
I've tracked a few of them
00:11:28.51\00:11:30.46
and for all this
talk about getting a
00:11:30.47\00:11:32.54
conservative here
or someone that doesn't
00:11:32.55\00:11:34.30
legislate from
the bench and so on,
00:11:34.31\00:11:36.12
they don't track
very well according to who
00:11:36.13\00:11:38.58
puts them on some of
the, so called liberal
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have input on by
conservatives and
00:11:40.87\00:11:42.52
vice-versa, yeah.
00:11:42.53\00:11:44.44
When we come back
from the break we're gonna
00:11:45.27\00:11:47.18
discuss this a little
bit further of course,
00:11:47.19\00:11:49.67
we may go beyond and discuss
00:11:50.57\00:11:52.46
the Supreme Court
itself, what is it about?
00:11:52.47\00:11:54.93
How does it function? A
lot of people don't really
00:11:54.94\00:11:56.58
understand clearly the
role of the Supreme Court,
00:11:56.59\00:12:00.00
because three
branches of government in the
00:12:00.34\00:12:02.52
United States, it's
important to realize
00:12:02.53\00:12:04.23
there is a system
of checks and balances.
00:12:04.24\00:12:06.21
When we come back
from the break too,
00:12:06.57\00:12:08.45
before we get back
into the discussion
00:12:08.46\00:12:10.27
I want to introduce briefly
a special surprise guest,
00:12:10.63\00:12:13.95
someone that I'll
enjoy talking too and then
00:12:14.80\00:12:17.14
we'll be back with Greg Hamilton
00:12:17.15\00:12:18.48
to more fully
develop this topic.
00:12:18.49\00:12:20.93
One-hundred
years, a long time to do
00:12:29.33\00:12:32.31
anything much less
publish a magazine,
00:12:32.32\00:12:34.69
but this year
Liberty, the Seventh-Day
00:12:35.05\00:12:37.85
Adventist voice
of religious freedom,
00:12:37.86\00:12:39.49
celebrates one
hundred years of doing
00:12:39.50\00:12:42.14
what it does best,
collecting, analyzing,
00:12:42.15\00:12:44.96
and reporting the
ebb and flow of religious
00:12:44.97\00:12:47.61
expression around the
world. Issue after issue.
00:12:47.62\00:12:50.95
Liberty has taken on
the tough assignments,
00:12:51.34\00:12:53.44
tracking down
threats to religious freedom
00:12:53.82\00:12:55.72
and exposing the
work of the devil
00:12:55.73\00:12:57.15
in every corner of the globe.
00:12:57.16\00:12:59.03
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:12:59.44\00:13:01.96
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:13:02.33\00:13:04.91
sequestered within
the church community
00:13:04.92\00:13:06.68
itself have been
clearly and honestly exposed.
00:13:06.69\00:13:09.59
Liberty exists for
one purpose to help God's
00:13:10.48\00:13:13.57
people maintain that
all important separation of
00:13:13.58\00:13:16.66
Church and State,
while recognizing the
00:13:16.67\00:13:18.81
dangers inherent
in such a struggle.
00:13:18.82\00:13:21.07
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:13:21.44\00:13:24.20
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:13:24.21\00:13:27.27
Thanks to the
inspired leadership of a
00:13:27.63\00:13:29.68
long line of
dedicated Adventist Editors,
00:13:29.69\00:13:31.84
three of whom represent almost
00:13:32.22\00:13:33.39
half of the
publications existence and the
00:13:33.40\00:13:35.85
foresight of a little
woman from New England.
00:13:35.86\00:13:38.49
One hundred years of struggle,
00:13:38.88\00:13:40.60
one hundred years of victories,
00:13:41.07\00:13:42.89
religious freedom
isn't just about political
00:13:43.29\00:13:45.62
machines and
cultural prejudices.
00:13:45.63\00:13:47.65
It's about people
fighting for the right
00:13:47.99\00:13:50.89
to serve the God
they love as their
00:13:50.90\00:13:53.29
hearts and the
Holy Spirit dictate.
00:13:53.30\00:13:55.79
Thanks to the prayers
and generous support of
00:13:56.18\00:13:58.44
Seventh-Day
Adventists everywhere.
00:13:58.45\00:14:00.31
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work of
00:14:00.66\00:14:03.14
providing timely information,
00:14:03.15\00:14:04.70
spirit filled
inspiration, and heaven sent
00:14:04.71\00:14:07.24
encouragement to
all who long to live and
00:14:07.25\00:14:10.50
work in a world
bound together by the God
00:14:10.51\00:14:13.66
ordained bonds of
religious freedom.
00:14:13.67\00:14:16.69
Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
00:14:27.05\00:14:29.14
As I promised before the break
00:14:29.15\00:14:30.60
I have a special
guest with me here,
00:14:30.95\00:14:32.68
his first time
never on the program.
00:14:33.12\00:14:35.31
He's my son
Christopher, Christopher Steed,
00:14:35.32\00:14:37.82
welcome to the
Liberty Insider Christopher.
00:14:38.20\00:14:40.10
Thank you. He's 11
years old and as you can see
00:14:40.11\00:14:43.16
already taller
then me, well not quite
00:14:43.17\00:14:44.89
but that will come.
00:14:44.90\00:14:45.88
I want to talk to you
on the program for a little
00:14:46.85\00:14:48.85
while Christopher
because for many years.
00:14:48.86\00:14:51.06
Well, I've been
editing Liberty Magazine,
00:14:51.45\00:14:54.43
when I've come
home with the new copy
00:14:55.34\00:14:56.92
you've taken it from me and you
00:14:56.93\00:14:58.13
wanted to read that
magazine haven't you?
00:14:58.14\00:14:59.80
What did you find interesting
00:15:00.72\00:15:01.81
about Liberty Magazine?
00:15:01.82\00:15:03.03
I found it
interesting because you write a
00:15:03.04\00:15:06.66
lot of good articles
in it and it teaches me
00:15:06.67\00:15:11.17
more and more
and more about God.
00:15:11.18\00:15:13.33
About God, because he made
00:15:13.91\00:15:15.29
religious freedom didn't he?
00:15:15.30\00:15:16.45
He said that we
should worship him always
00:15:16.46\00:15:18.47
and nobody can stop
us, right, that's right.
00:15:18.48\00:15:20.58
Do you like the pictures? Yeah,
00:15:21.69\00:15:23.25
some of them are really funny.
00:15:23.74\00:15:25.66
Now, I think I told
you once that I got letter
00:15:25.67\00:15:28.56
from a mother who said
that her 6 year old boy
00:15:28.57\00:15:31.70
liked Liberty so
much that he wanted to
00:15:31.71\00:15:33.58
subscribe for, to it.
And he use to read it,
00:15:33.59\00:15:36.19
you told me.
That's about how old you
00:15:36.20\00:15:37.90
were when you started
reading it, didn't you?
00:15:37.91\00:15:39.61
Yeah, now what
would you tell our viewers
00:15:40.65\00:15:42.92
there's lots of
people watching this program.
00:15:42.93\00:15:44.62
You look at this
camera and you tell them
00:15:44.98\00:15:47.34
the Liberty
Magazine is something
00:15:47.82\00:15:49.25
that they should have.
00:15:49.26\00:15:50.24
I think you should
have Liberty Magazine, why?
00:15:51.10\00:15:55.74
Because it teaches you
how to be more like God,
00:15:56.20\00:16:00.89
and show his freedom
to other people, right.
00:16:00.90\00:16:04.66
Well, thanks very
much Christopher and now
00:16:05.44\00:16:07.44
you got something to
tell your class when you go
00:16:07.45\00:16:08.93
back that you
were a TV star right?
00:16:08.94\00:16:10.78
And I'll be and
one of my friends James
00:16:11.19\00:16:14.70
he'll be like, it's
not fair. All the best,
00:16:14.71\00:16:19.25
thank you son, see
you later, welcome, bye.
00:16:19.26\00:16:21.75
Well, that was an
interesting interlude,
00:16:23.58\00:16:25.21
certainly very rewarding for me.
00:16:25.22\00:16:26.71
Lets continue our
discussion Greg with
00:16:27.47\00:16:29.77
the Supreme
Court, the nomination of
00:16:29.78\00:16:32.73
Justice Sotomayor,
where this will go we don't
00:16:32.74\00:16:37.29
really know and
particularly because
00:16:37.30\00:16:39.05
she doesn't really
for, for all the discussion
00:16:39.06\00:16:41.47
and the fanciful
suppositions about
00:16:41.48\00:16:44.40
what she might
do, there is not much
00:16:44.41\00:16:46.33
that she's ever said
on religious liberty,
00:16:46.34\00:16:48.38
on, on religious freedom issues
00:16:49.06\00:16:50.88
that we could
extrapolate easily.
00:16:50.89\00:16:52.53
Exactly and she has
had a tendency to rule
00:16:52.54\00:16:55.23
very narrowly on
decisions and not expand,
00:16:55.24\00:16:57.87
so actually in
many ways she does not
00:16:57.88\00:17:00.24
come across as a
judicial activities as,
00:17:00.25\00:17:02.77
as the republican
right will suggest.
00:17:02.78\00:17:05.00
So, we'll see what
happens on that end.
00:17:05.41\00:17:07.34
It's true and, and you know we,
00:17:07.74\00:17:09.78
we comment on
political things but this
00:17:09.79\00:17:12.23
program cannot be
politically oriented.
00:17:12.24\00:17:14.42
So you know I hope
our viewers understand
00:17:14.43\00:17:16.76
we're not tilting
right, left or whatever, but we
00:17:16.77\00:17:19.39
we look at this and I
have to agree with you.
00:17:19.40\00:17:22.17
The, the
republicans and they're not
00:17:22.59\00:17:25.81
necessarily
absolutely synonymous but the
00:17:25.82\00:17:27.71
right wing fractions
that have been crying
00:17:27.72\00:17:30.72
you know disaster
with her nomination.
00:17:30.73\00:17:33.12
I really think
they're overstepping a bit,
00:17:33.53\00:17:35.33
and I think they're
play acting, they almost
00:17:35.34\00:17:37.10
had to appose
whoever was put up,
00:17:37.11\00:17:39.46
but it impresses me
as I read history that
00:17:39.86\00:17:42.48
she's got a good,
solid track record.
00:17:42.49\00:17:44.63
There is probably
some reason to suppose that
00:17:45.18\00:17:47.37
as a human being she has ideas
00:17:47.38\00:17:50.38
that are little
more on the liberal side.
00:17:50.39\00:17:52.61
But you couldn't
necessarily tell it easily
00:17:52.62\00:17:54.39
from her cases that she's that.
00:17:54.40\00:17:55.84
And her life story is
very interesting, yes,
00:17:55.85\00:17:59.24
it's very appealing
and, and being the first
00:17:59.25\00:18:01.46
Mexican American is
also appealing too many
00:18:02.03\00:18:05.58
and so you know
it's, it's, it's I think
00:18:05.95\00:18:08.83
it will turn out
to be a good pick.
00:18:08.84\00:18:10.32
We'll just have to
wait and see and it,
00:18:10.33\00:18:11.53
and it can't be bad
for the, the citizenry as a
00:18:11.54\00:18:14.83
whole to have a
Supreme Court body
00:18:14.84\00:18:16.99
that is a
reasonable cross-section of the
00:18:17.00\00:18:19.76
population and
you know Hispanics are
00:18:19.77\00:18:23.44
destined to became a
larger proportion of the
00:18:24.16\00:18:26.00
population of
blacks, black population and,
00:18:26.01\00:18:29.53
and the civil rights
era taught us that was a
00:18:29.54\00:18:31.42
group we need to
pay attention to,
00:18:31.43\00:18:32.78
but the Hispanics assuming.
00:18:32.79\00:18:34.17
So, I think it's
great, she's provided some
00:18:35.05\00:18:37.66
entertainment in
the sense that because
00:18:37.67\00:18:39.47
she's so outspoken, she maybe
00:18:39.48\00:18:41.53
and the media just loves this.
00:18:42.02\00:18:43.58
Because of her
outspokenness, they see
00:18:43.59\00:18:46.37
her as sort of a Justice
Scalia on the left except,
00:18:46.38\00:18:49.21
except that she,
she doesn't have.
00:18:49.22\00:18:51.43
She has strong opinions
but in her actual rulings
00:18:51.92\00:18:54.53
at least in the past,
recent past she hasn't
00:18:54.54\00:18:57.54
really put forward, really some
00:18:57.55\00:19:01.37
exacerbating type comments.
00:19:01.85\00:19:04.71
Wow, and it could be
interesting for all of us
00:19:04.72\00:19:07.86
as commentators if we
have another Justice Scalia
00:19:07.87\00:19:10.20
at least if she
speaks that way, some of his
00:19:10.21\00:19:14.27
rulings or his
comments on different rulings
00:19:14.28\00:19:16.46
have been more problematic, yes,
00:19:16.47\00:19:18.17
but I have to admit even of him.
00:19:18.18\00:19:19.87
He talks a more
radical game then he usually
00:19:20.24\00:19:23.29
administers in his comments.
00:19:23.95\00:19:26.13
But yes, I hope she's
not quite on that level,
00:19:26.60\00:19:28.92
yeah because there
is no question that,
00:19:28.93\00:19:30.69
that Justice
Scalia and Justices Thomas
00:19:30.70\00:19:35.47
and Scalia have
been problematic on
00:19:35.48\00:19:38.59
church status, she
was in, and have rather
00:19:38.60\00:19:40.83
an extreme view on some
of these and even general
00:19:40.84\00:19:42.96
civil liberties I find
them a bit problematic.
00:19:42.97\00:19:45.17
But the Supreme Court
as a whole, indeed any
00:19:45.93\00:19:48.41
High Court in the
country, is it true as some
00:19:48.42\00:19:52.78
people say that these
courts can be dangerous
00:19:52.79\00:19:55.30
because they
legislate from the bench.
00:19:55.31\00:19:57.09
It sounds great, it's a
good fund raising letter
00:19:57.46\00:19:59.56
I think for
certain groups but you know
00:19:59.57\00:20:01.77
what are your opinions on this.
00:20:01.78\00:20:02.81
As we look at religious liberty
00:20:02.82\00:20:04.65
implications on different cases.
00:20:04.66\00:20:06.62
I think there are
some Justices who tend to
00:20:06.63\00:20:08.87
be someone
activist, I even think
00:20:08.88\00:20:11.00
Antonin Justice
Scalia is an activist in many
00:20:11.01\00:20:14.19
respects in the
sense that he wants to
00:20:14.20\00:20:16.61
basically return
the court back to an era
00:20:17.70\00:20:20.19
in which it just at
least he thinks back
00:20:20.20\00:20:23.08
to an era which I don't think
00:20:23.09\00:20:24.19
is an era that even exists.
00:20:24.20\00:20:25.60
In terms of just interpreting
00:20:25.99\00:20:28.61
the text meaning, the
Justices, the court is
00:20:29.20\00:20:33.82
supposed to only
interpret the law
00:20:33.83\00:20:37.07
as it was
intended by the founders.
00:20:38.44\00:20:41.17
And I don't see how
you can do that because
00:20:41.18\00:20:43.99
the constitution is
there, while society moves
00:20:44.00\00:20:46.83
on and grows and
changes a little bit.
00:20:46.84\00:20:48.56
I'm not into so
much, it sounds like
00:20:48.90\00:20:50.38
the living document, the living,
00:20:50.39\00:20:51.83
breathing constitution approach,
00:20:51.84\00:20:53.22
I'm not so much in that
or even advocating that,
00:20:53.23\00:20:55.53
I'm just saying that
you've to be realistic.
00:20:55.54\00:20:57.19
It is a living document,
it's not a dead document,
00:20:57.57\00:20:59.82
you just can't, you can't
just all of a sudden erase
00:21:00.30\00:21:02.71
time and go past
Brown v. Board of Education,
00:21:02.72\00:21:05.95
and keep
segregation up or go back to
00:21:05.96\00:21:08.36
Plessy versus Ferguson,
00:21:08.37\00:21:09.57
or go back to
Dred Scott decision.
00:21:09.58\00:21:12.69
And say that black
people are only three fifths of
00:21:13.09\00:21:16.88
a person, I mean come on
that's, that's ridiculus.
00:21:16.89\00:21:19.39
Well, I've heard as
you have that I've heard
00:21:19.40\00:21:21.39
Justice Scalia speak
a few times and I think
00:21:21.40\00:21:23.75
he gets hoisted
on his own petard,
00:21:23.76\00:21:25.65
because he says originalist,
00:21:25.66\00:21:26.76
then he says some,
some obvious truisms,
00:21:27.15\00:21:29.57
like they didn't
believe even though
00:21:29.93\00:21:31.61
they wrote it down,
equal rights of human beings,
00:21:31.62\00:21:35.79
'cause they embrace slavery.
00:21:35.80\00:21:37.17
Right, so by
saying that he has to then
00:21:37.18\00:21:40.75
ignore the most plain statements
00:21:40.76\00:21:42.72
in the Bill of Rights, yeah.
00:21:42.73\00:21:45.32
But his solution
is that you then have
00:21:45.33\00:21:47.78
a constitutional adjustment,
00:21:47.79\00:21:50.77
you have another amendment.
00:21:50.78\00:21:51.77
But the way he gets to
that is basically going
00:21:52.57\00:21:55.37
into the mind of
these original founders and
00:21:55.38\00:21:59.35
decide what they
though about what they wrote,
00:21:59.36\00:22:01.51
because he clearly
isn't willing to take it at
00:22:01.52\00:22:03.19
face value or else even
though there was slavery
00:22:03.20\00:22:06.87
and, and no
voting for women and so.
00:22:06.88\00:22:09.68
That you would accept the
00:22:10.19\00:22:11.16
constitutional on it's face.
00:22:11.17\00:22:12.31
I believe to
answer your question
00:22:13.05\00:22:14.44
I think Justices do
all of them, do try to be
00:22:14.45\00:22:18.32
very objective in
their decision making
00:22:18.33\00:22:19.92
and in their
opinions that they write.
00:22:19.93\00:22:22.68
I really do, this
idea of judicial activism
00:22:23.11\00:22:25.67
if it does exist in
the left and the right,
00:22:25.68\00:22:27.86
they certainly check each other
00:22:28.13\00:22:29.49
and it is good that we have
00:22:29.50\00:22:31.29
a liberal conservative balance.
00:22:31.30\00:22:33.53
Because that I think
it is healthy for the
00:22:34.70\00:22:36.48
court and it's
healthy for the nation.
00:22:36.49\00:22:37.64
And that's worth remembering,
00:22:38.03\00:22:39.45
checks and balances
at the higher court level
00:22:39.46\00:22:43.09
I think you have
less problem, there are
00:22:43.10\00:22:44.57
lower judges
certainly, just circuit judge,
00:22:44.58\00:22:47.96
there's circuit
judges and judges on
00:22:47.97\00:22:50.98
criminal cases and
that, that come up with
00:22:51.55\00:22:53.30
some incredible stuff but
there's appeals processes.
00:22:53.31\00:22:56.17
There are also
mechanisms set out to
00:22:56.57\00:22:59.79
impeach or remove
them from their positions;
00:22:59.80\00:23:01.91
these are human beings
00:23:03.33\00:23:04.40
after all but I
think the system.
00:23:04.41\00:23:06.06
That's at the state
level, yes but the system
00:23:06.07\00:23:08.20
works fairly well, by
the times someone like
00:23:08.21\00:23:10.32
Justice Sotomayor
comes to that level
00:23:10.33\00:23:12.89
she's pretty much
tested, there is a record
00:23:13.26\00:23:15.54
where her fellow
Justices and Judges know
00:23:15.55\00:23:17.81
what she's about,
that's worth remembering
00:23:17.82\00:23:20.28
that she was
appointed originally by,
00:23:20.29\00:23:22.45
by a Republican, yes.
00:23:22.46\00:23:23.89
She could not be
that distasteful,
00:23:23.90\00:23:25.31
President Bush Sr.,
yes, but I often try
00:23:25.32\00:23:29.38
flip flop opinions,
when we're thinking of
00:23:29.39\00:23:32.26
Seventh-day Adventist
students of Bible prophecy
00:23:32.27\00:23:34.53
remember that a
particular Bible prediction
00:23:34.54\00:23:36.66
at the end of time
is that the Justices,
00:23:36.67\00:23:39.50
the Judges pervert Justice, yes.
00:23:39.51\00:23:41.59
So, we need to
be careful of that,
00:23:41.60\00:23:42.89
and I don't think
it's just one judge.
00:23:43.29\00:23:45.49
When our society
as a whole become
00:23:45.92\00:23:47.90
disrespectful of
laws, so that the
00:23:47.91\00:23:49.84
Judges who are put up
to maintain it sort of
00:23:49.85\00:23:53.06
sweep it aside and
just give prejudiced
00:23:53.07\00:23:56.36
opinions then we've got trouble.
00:23:56.37\00:23:57.54
I think when that
time comes there will be a
00:23:57.55\00:23:59.29
manipulation by Congress
or the President or both.
00:23:59.30\00:24:02.60
Because the
Judges, once they become a
00:24:03.75\00:24:06.00
rubber stamp to
either Congress or the
00:24:06.01\00:24:07.84
executive branch the presidency,
00:24:08.29\00:24:09.68
then we're in trouble.
00:24:09.69\00:24:10.66
Right, and this whole
discussion of activist
00:24:10.67\00:24:14.36
Judges bothers me not
because I think it's so,
00:24:14.37\00:24:17.18
but I think, I
think by talking about it
00:24:17.19\00:24:19.29
as being so, it
could become so fulfilling
00:24:19.30\00:24:22.77
reality and even
this debate of whether
00:24:22.78\00:24:25.39
they're liberal or
conservative obscures
00:24:25.40\00:24:27.48
what that, that
human being is up to
00:24:27.49\00:24:29.79
and their Judicial skills
00:24:29.80\00:24:31.66
'cause all people
are not equally skilled.
00:24:31.67\00:24:33.49
Some are incompetent.
Some are bias because of
00:24:34.35\00:24:36.78
their life experiences
and so on, and we need to
00:24:36.79\00:24:38.95
look that that body
fulfills it's function,
00:24:38.96\00:24:40.75
there's 9 for a reason.
00:24:40.76\00:24:42.00
They have to arrive
at a consensus and I do
00:24:42.42\00:24:45.43
hope that in this
country which is not a
00:24:45.44\00:24:48.54
perfect country but has
a well thought-out system
00:24:48.55\00:24:50.76
that the judicial
system continues to deal
00:24:50.77\00:24:53.60
logically and thoughtfully
00:24:54.00\00:24:55.41
with cases that
work their way up.
00:24:55.42\00:24:57.04
Part of the, the argument
against judicial activism
00:24:57.38\00:25:00.34
is that they don't have
an open go to just choose
00:25:00.35\00:25:03.20
any law that
they're comfortable with,
00:25:03.21\00:25:04.36
these are things that
end up because they're
00:25:04.37\00:25:06.12
insoluble through the
court system and they are
00:25:06.13\00:25:08.37
to give a well
considered final word on this.
00:25:08.38\00:25:10.82
I think the key
issue is understanding the
00:25:11.25\00:25:13.23
bill of rights are a
check on the Constitution.
00:25:13.24\00:25:16.86
The will of the
majority and their
00:25:17.15\00:25:18.88
abuse of minority
rights is, is something
00:25:18.89\00:25:23.75
we need to take, as
something that's very
00:25:23.76\00:25:25.40
precious and valuable and so
00:25:25.41\00:25:27.83
we need to remember that.
00:25:27.84\00:25:28.81
We also need to
remember the constitution
00:25:28.82\00:25:30.25
in a way serves as
a check and balance
00:25:30.26\00:25:31.91
even on the bill of the rights.
00:25:31.92\00:25:32.89
Is there a time when
the will of the minority
00:25:33.33\00:25:35.45
abuses the, the
will and the rightful
00:25:35.80\00:25:38.03
will of the
majority and I think,
00:25:38.04\00:25:39.51
I think our system is ingenious.
00:25:39.52\00:25:42.07
Our founding
fathers, our constitutional
00:25:42.08\00:25:43.79
founders,
understood this interplay.
00:25:43.80\00:25:46.06
Even the First
Amendment it says, it says:
00:25:46.07\00:25:49.54
Congress shall make
no law respecting an
00:25:49.94\00:25:52.05
establishment of religion, or
00:25:52.06\00:25:53.28
prohibiting the
free exercise thereof;
00:25:53.29\00:25:56.06
the very words
prohibiting the free
00:25:56.07\00:25:57.71
exercise and the
establishment is in
00:25:57.72\00:25:59.79
internal check and
balance on each other.
00:25:59.80\00:26:01.61
Even though
they work in harmony,
00:26:01.62\00:26:02.71
those two religion clauses,
00:26:03.16\00:26:04.26
it's an amazing
accomplishment that the
00:26:04.67\00:26:06.64
founding fathers have given us.
00:26:06.65\00:26:07.93
That the risk of interjecting
00:26:07.94\00:26:09.39
a foreign viewpoint,
I see this not just as
00:26:09.40\00:26:12.95
the genius of the constitution.
00:26:12.96\00:26:14.44
These were the well thought out
00:26:14.45\00:26:15.87
governance principles of the
00:26:16.74\00:26:18.28
English peoples
that were adopted here.
00:26:18.29\00:26:20.01
That's true, I
agree with that and then
00:26:20.02\00:26:21.45
you know that even means
00:26:21.46\00:26:23.39
that they were
more well thought out.
00:26:23.40\00:26:24.81
I think one of the
key reasons Lincoln,
00:26:25.64\00:26:27.44
that President
Barack Obama chose
00:26:27.45\00:26:29.33
Judge Sonia
Sotomayor was the fact that
00:26:29.80\00:26:32.63
the Judge is someone
who he's counting on,
00:26:33.10\00:26:36.48
whether it actually
turns out to be or not
00:26:36.49\00:26:38.35
remains to be seem,
but counting on her to
00:26:38.36\00:26:41.55
provide some form
of definitive thinking
00:26:42.09\00:26:46.55
or opinions on
presidential powers.
00:26:46.56\00:26:48.46
Toward the end
of the book of Job,
00:26:50.00\00:26:51.61
the young radical
Elihu, up raids the suffering
00:26:52.43\00:26:55.87
Job for as he
says, being full of the
00:26:55.88\00:26:59.07
righteous judgment,
you're full of judgment.
00:26:59.08\00:27:01.88
Well, here in this
world as Christians
00:27:02.64\00:27:05.13
we can't afford
to be too judgmental
00:27:05.14\00:27:07.15
but when we look to
the civil magistrate
00:27:07.49\00:27:09.78
we have realized that somebody
00:27:09.79\00:27:11.34
has to judge here and now.
00:27:11.81\00:27:13.19
Between good and evil,
between right and wrong,
00:27:13.49\00:27:15.56
between constitutional,
unconstitutional.
00:27:15.92\00:27:18.40
There is much
discussion of life,
00:27:18.74\00:27:20.42
particularly by people of faith
00:27:20.43\00:27:22.62
and so called religious right.
00:27:23.02\00:27:24.39
We have a certain
agenda and questioning
00:27:24.74\00:27:27.28
what judges are
put in what position.
00:27:27.29\00:27:29.12
As out country,
and the United States
00:27:29.91\00:27:31.83
has discussed through
the appropriateness of
00:27:31.84\00:27:33.91
the latest Supreme
Court nominee, it's worth
00:27:33.92\00:27:36.88
remembering that it's
a responsible position,
00:27:36.89\00:27:39.80
we do expect a human
being to make judgments
00:27:40.54\00:27:43.19
fallible as they maybe
on very important issues.
00:27:43.20\00:27:45.87
What we don't need
and what we must be
00:27:46.32\00:27:48.89
always aware of, of human beings
00:27:48.90\00:27:51.24
judging on religious matters.
00:27:51.25\00:27:53.10
When their mandate is
only in the civil's fear,
00:27:53.52\00:27:56.81
I trust that as we
see this confirmation
00:27:57.69\00:27:59.74
drawing to it's
conclusion, that this is
00:27:59.75\00:28:02.48
the ultimate
disposition of this case too.
00:28:02.49\00:28:05.46
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:07.99\00:28:11.38