Welcome to Liberty Insider.
00:00:22.43\00:00:24.23
This is the program that
brings you the very latest news,
00:00:24.24\00:00:26.81
views and information,
up to date information
00:00:26.82\00:00:29.67
on Religious Liberty issues.
00:00:29.68\00:00:30.90
My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine.
00:00:31.26\00:00:34.35
And with me today
is Dr. Clarence Hodges.
00:00:35.15\00:00:37.67
Welcome, Dr. Hodges. Thank you.
00:00:37.68\00:00:40.02
We've got long relationship
on Religious Liberty
00:00:40.87\00:00:43.83
that gets back to when I first
started on Liberty Magazine.
00:00:43.84\00:00:46.34
You were my
Boss, Superior, Mentor,
00:00:46.35\00:00:51.30
whatever you want to say.
00:00:51.31\00:00:52.62
I remember your first days.
00:00:52.63\00:00:53.94
Yeah, yeah. Tricky does.
00:00:53.95\00:00:55.38
And you've also spent time
working in different levels
00:00:56.38\00:00:59.79
in the US government prior to
the Religious Liberty services.
00:00:59.80\00:01:03.27
And you've got a wide
range of experience as well
00:01:03.28\00:01:07.11
as I...I see next to
you one of your books.
00:01:07.12\00:01:09.41
You've written
several books. Yes.
00:01:09.42\00:01:11.03
That are very well received.
00:01:11.73\00:01:13.39
So you know Religious Liberty.
00:01:14.31\00:01:15.39
What is the basis for
our Religious Liberty work,
00:01:16.99\00:01:19.83
particularly in the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:01:19.84\00:01:22.13
But any true
religious liberty outreach.
00:01:22.14\00:01:24.61
What is that?
00:01:24.62\00:01:25.59
You know, I've
partly answered my question.
00:01:25.75\00:01:27.18
You know, I
always refer to Jesus
00:01:27.19\00:01:28.60
standing up there in Nazareth
00:01:28.61\00:01:30.31
and giving a message
of absolutely liberation.
00:01:30.32\00:01:33.52
Freedom for the captive,
from the yoke of sin I believe.
00:01:33.53\00:01:38.40
He was primarily talking about.
00:01:38.41\00:01:39.68
But it was really
an act of His message
00:01:39.69\00:01:41.84
not just sort
of a passive thing,
00:01:41.85\00:01:43.95
well we have, so
lets be thankful for it.
00:01:43.96\00:01:46.47
This was aggressively
proactive, wasn't it?
00:01:46.48\00:01:51.29
Yes, when we as Christians
looked at Religious Liberty
00:01:51.30\00:01:54.29
and look at where Christ
was, His service, His ministry.
00:01:55.38\00:01:58.57
He was discriminated against.
00:01:59.29\00:02:01.34
He was a victim of
religious persecutions.
00:02:01.35\00:02:04.05
Certainly. And
His early followers.
00:02:04.06\00:02:07.22
Can any good thing
come out of Nazareth?
00:02:07.67\00:02:09.07
Well, that's right.
00:02:09.08\00:02:11.01
We're persecuted
on a continuous basis,
00:02:11.02\00:02:13.14
to the extent
that they exclaim that
00:02:13.15\00:02:16.66
to get into heaven,
you'll go through tribulation.
00:02:16.67\00:02:19.65
And there are times now
that persons at different places
00:02:20.62\00:02:25.21
are persecuted in some
countries of the world.
00:02:25.22\00:02:28.57
There are people who
are right now in prison
00:02:29.33\00:02:32.06
because of their
religious convictions.
00:02:32.07\00:02:34.38
And our view is
going back to Jesus,
00:02:34.39\00:02:37.46
the use of the Golden Rule.
00:02:37.47\00:02:39.78
Now, there are those who say,
00:02:40.54\00:02:41.79
those who have the gold, rule.
00:02:41.80\00:02:44.28
And when that
happens, those who don't have,
00:02:44.70\00:02:48.14
suffer and maybe
persecuted. Yeah.
00:02:48.15\00:02:51.96
But Jesus was saying,
00:02:51.97\00:02:52.94
"Lets treat others the way
you would want to be treated."
00:02:52.95\00:02:55.95
And that's the way
Religious Liberty is... is
00:02:55.96\00:02:58.53
sort of presented
by Liberty Magazine
00:02:58.54\00:03:02.07
which we want
everybody to receive.
00:03:02.08\00:03:04.48
Exactly. And those who
receive to share with others.
00:03:04.49\00:03:06.55
But, we want people of
faith to treat others of faith
00:03:06.56\00:03:07.53
But, we want people of
faith to treat others of faith
00:03:07.61\00:03:15.78
or without faith with
that Golden Rule concept.
00:03:15.79\00:03:20.35
I will treat you
the way you would,
00:03:20.36\00:03:22.95
I would want you to treat me.
00:03:22.96\00:03:24.31
Now, that's a good summery.
00:03:24.64\00:03:26.32
While part of Religious
Liberty is enabling those
00:03:26.98\00:03:29.74
who don't believe in any faith,
they're right to not believe.
00:03:29.75\00:03:32.67
I think it's sort of
truism, it should be a truism,
00:03:33.15\00:03:36.75
that anybody that has
a faith that they think
00:03:36.76\00:03:39.26
is special to be
consistent with that,
00:03:39.27\00:03:41.78
they have to be
tolerant with other people.
00:03:41.79\00:03:43.37
Otherwise your
religion is a pretty sinister,
00:03:43.38\00:03:45.98
narrow minded view.
00:03:45.99\00:03:48.38
So while it's not always been
the case of Religious Liberty.
00:03:48.64\00:03:51.50
I think this... this concern
for other people and this
00:03:52.02\00:03:54.76
reciprocal
arrangement that what I want,
00:03:54.77\00:03:57.21
I should be willing to grant to
others, is a very good dynamic.
00:03:57.22\00:04:01.22
Not is...is very often the case,
00:04:01.23\00:04:03.32
and I know we're
always warning against it,
00:04:03.33\00:04:05.14
just sort of a
mere toleration. Yes.
00:04:05.15\00:04:08.04
That, you know, I
don't like what you've got
00:04:08.05\00:04:09.61
and I'll let you
do it maybe for now.
00:04:09.62\00:04:12.15
But if you give me
trouble then we'll stop it.
00:04:12.16\00:04:14.33
You know, there are
countries around the world
00:04:14.75\00:04:16.03
that have a certain
religious "freedom."
00:04:16.04\00:04:18.68
But it's on that basis
easily revoked and not really,
00:04:18.69\00:04:21.81
they have no Religious
Liberty under a real philosophy
00:04:21.82\00:04:26.56
of true freedom and practice.
00:04:26.57\00:04:28.70
Yes, while most
persons of faith believe
00:04:29.16\00:04:33.06
that their particular
faith is best for them.
00:04:33.07\00:04:37.67
They should not want
to impose it on others.
00:04:38.98\00:04:41.47
And we have to be
careful that we keep
00:04:42.38\00:04:47.03
that sort of thinking in mind.
00:04:47.04\00:04:49.33
We would not want them
to appose theirs on us,
00:04:50.06\00:04:53.31
even though they think
theirs is better than ours.
00:04:53.32\00:04:56.14
It's not an issue of
whose is better or best.
00:04:56.78\00:05:01.65
It's an issue of being brothers
and sisters on the same planet.
00:05:02.80\00:05:09.05
Coming from the
same great Creator.
00:05:09.38\00:05:11.40
Treating others with respect.
00:05:11.41\00:05:13.29
Okay, let's...let's
discuses a really tricky,
00:05:13.50\00:05:15.80
real world application of this
concept we're talking about.
00:05:15.81\00:05:20.43
It's not too many
months now since in California.
00:05:21.00\00:05:24.32
It's part of the election.
00:05:24.33\00:05:25.68
They had a
Proposition 8 on the ballot.
00:05:25.69\00:05:28.79
Yes. Are you familiar with that?
00:05:28.80\00:05:31.12
I heard about that.
00:05:31.13\00:05:32.35
Which is in some ways,
at least for California,
00:05:32.36\00:05:34.73
the culmination of
the so called culture war.
00:05:34.74\00:05:36.94
But it's really
more than culture,
00:05:36.95\00:05:38.60
it's a religious up
willing and an attempt
00:05:38.61\00:05:42.63
to use legislation to advance
00:05:42.64\00:05:46.03
or protect
certain religious fears.
00:05:46.04\00:05:48.32
Like that's my
description of it.
00:05:48.33\00:05:49.93
And with
Proposition 8 for those viewers
00:05:49.94\00:05:52.17
who are maybe
not that clear on it.
00:05:52.18\00:05:54.54
It was a
plebiscite, if you like,
00:05:54.55\00:05:58.13
on whether or not gay marriage
00:05:58.14\00:06:02.09
would have the
protection of law, right? Yes.
00:06:02.10\00:06:06.11
And...and...and now I
gotta think which way it went.
00:06:06.44\00:06:08.84
But in upholding Proposition
8, they would uphold marriage,
00:06:08.85\00:06:13.11
the biblical concept of marriage
and exclude gay marriage.
00:06:13.12\00:06:17.18
That's correct.
00:06:17.19\00:06:18.33
Now, I am real comfortable
more than comfortable
00:06:18.66\00:06:23.06
as a Christian with the State
supporting a view of marriage
00:06:23.07\00:06:28.53
that accords with the Bible.
00:06:28.54\00:06:29.90
I am very
uncomfortable with any state
00:06:29.91\00:06:33.21
consciously putting into
its legislation something
00:06:33.22\00:06:38.39
that is...is a reflection
00:06:38.40\00:06:39.81
of a particular
religious view point.
00:06:39.82\00:06:41.70
Yes, that's our
concern with Religious Liberty.
00:06:42.51\00:06:46.63
We all want religion to
be used, in as such a way
00:06:46.64\00:06:51.01
as to hammer
somebody over the head with.
00:06:51.02\00:06:54.77
We don't want it to be
used to reinforce hate.
00:06:55.42\00:06:58.47
All right.
00:06:58.48\00:07:00.00
And some people
when they get involved
00:07:00.01\00:07:02.46
on the, the gay rights issue.
00:07:02.47\00:07:04.93
There is hatred
from some groups. Sure.
00:07:06.11\00:07:08.90
And even though a
person might hate a particular
00:07:09.28\00:07:14.41
characteristic or an
activity of another person.
00:07:14.42\00:07:17.71
They should not
hate that person. Right.
00:07:18.52\00:07:21.55
Because of that activity.
00:07:21.56\00:07:23.27
Now I should say
on this Proposition 8
00:07:23.28\00:07:24.95
at least at this point
in time, we find ourselves.
00:07:24.96\00:07:26.96
There's no
question that many religions
00:07:26.97\00:07:30.32
who have a faith
I agree with that.
00:07:30.33\00:07:32.60
They practice of this
and their public statements
00:07:32.61\00:07:34.75
are...are about gays and their
rights and behaviors and so on.
00:07:34.76\00:07:39.94
They are very
inhumane, very antagonistic
00:07:39.95\00:07:44.18
as with the gay community.
00:07:44.19\00:07:46.25
I've always seen
a deep seated hatred
00:07:46.26\00:07:48.88
of what they see is the
faith that doesn't include them.
00:07:48.89\00:07:52.43
So it's not a one sided thing.
00:07:52.44\00:07:54.91
And, and I do
believe that Proposition 8
00:07:54.92\00:07:57.63
was almost calculated
to rise the antagonisms.
00:07:57.64\00:08:00.68
But I don't have a problem with,
00:08:01.80\00:08:03.94
in fact I would rather live
in a state that had civil laws
00:08:03.95\00:08:09.10
that were in agreement
with my Biblical understating
00:08:09.11\00:08:13.72
of how God wants society to run.
00:08:13.73\00:08:15.27
Yes. But I don't
want it to come about
00:08:16.48\00:08:18.42
by a religious pressure tactic.
00:08:18.43\00:08:21.20
This is the
conundrum, I'm trying to be,
00:08:21.21\00:08:23.74
I hope it's not making
it vague but the reality is
00:08:23.75\00:08:27.88
the... on this
Proposition 8, they were many
00:08:27.89\00:08:29.92
Seventh-day Adventist
interested in Religious Liberty
00:08:29.93\00:08:32.88
who were one side or the other.
00:08:32.89\00:08:34.59
They were not all
of one view, so it's...
00:08:34.60\00:08:37.26
And I think that's good.
00:08:37.27\00:08:38.26
Yes, they're right, but, somehow
00:08:38.27\00:08:40.64
we need to
navigate through that.
00:08:40.65\00:08:42.05
And to me, in my description,
I am very comfortable.
00:08:42.06\00:08:45.80
And I think it's
required of people of faith,
00:08:45.81\00:08:48.69
to speak loudly and
openly about a public issue
00:08:48.70\00:08:52.75
that has a moral component.
00:08:52.76\00:08:54.06
Such as, our society adopting
00:08:54.07\00:08:56.96
the whole gay logic,
gay lifestyle and so on...
00:08:56.97\00:09:01.83
That, that's inconsistent with,
00:09:01.84\00:09:04.43
with the plain
words of the Bible.
00:09:04.44\00:09:06.28
I'm comfortable with us
00:09:06.29\00:09:09.17
demanding
legislation to support it.
00:09:09.18\00:09:11.37
Yes, that's why we
don't want religious freedom
00:09:12.23\00:09:16.26
to be misused in that
context and we don't want
00:09:16.27\00:09:22.93
religion to be
misused in that context.
00:09:22.94\00:09:26.25
What we would urge our
people to do on any issue
00:09:27.09\00:09:30.93
where they are
voting a political process?
00:09:30.94\00:09:34.09
You pray about it.
00:09:35.11\00:09:36.44
And your conscious has
a roll in your decision.
00:09:37.18\00:09:40.17
We don't want to impose on that.
00:09:40.78\00:09:44.01
Now, members of
churches should understand
00:09:44.57\00:09:48.98
what their
church's position is. Right.
00:09:48.99\00:09:51.17
And they have the freedom
of choice in their own mind,
00:09:51.73\00:09:58.23
and no one should seek
to dictate to the other.
00:09:58.24\00:10:02.63
We see the issue
from a Biblical standpoint
00:10:04.51\00:10:07.24
on marriage, where the
Bible takes a very clear stand
00:10:07.25\00:10:15.01
that marriage is for
one woman and one man.
00:10:15.02\00:10:19.38
At the same time
there are many doctrines
00:10:20.55\00:10:25.12
within churches that
various groups adhere to,
00:10:25.13\00:10:30.31
but should not seek to
impose that on government
00:10:31.39\00:10:37.95
just because of the region.
00:10:37.96\00:10:39.53
Right, and, in my view,
I'll try to advance this idea
00:10:39.81\00:10:44.26
through Liberty Magazine
on some very important points.
00:10:44.27\00:10:47.38
We want to get it across
and our goal is to change
00:10:47.39\00:10:51.23
the public attitude and when
that reaches a critical mass...
00:10:51.24\00:10:55.08
in a democratic
system that could result
00:10:56.07\00:10:58.20
in legislation
reflects that public view.
00:10:58.21\00:11:01.45
But we have to be
working, as they said,
00:11:01.46\00:11:03.40
during the Vietnam
war, with hearts and minds.
00:11:03.41\00:11:05.21
You're not sort of
short-circuiting that
00:11:06.30\00:11:08.37
and trying to force
through a legislation.
00:11:08.38\00:11:11.32
Because I've listened to
a lot of the statements of,
00:11:11.33\00:11:13.37
of those who were
trying to restrict
00:11:13.38\00:11:15.42
the marriage only
to the biblical model.
00:11:15.43\00:11:18.53
They could, they
would be quite happy
00:11:19.30\00:11:20.56
to get a constitutional
amendment and, and...
00:11:20.57\00:11:23.06
close the discussion
or to somehow cut across
00:11:23.07\00:11:27.57
developing public
view and get a super law
00:11:27.58\00:11:30.64
to restrict further
discussion and that's just not
00:11:30.65\00:11:33.57
Biblical nor
democratic in my view.
00:11:33.58\00:11:36.06
And the same issues
were brought before us,
00:11:36.66\00:11:42.18
when they were many
places looking at hate crimes.
00:11:42.19\00:11:46.18
All right, and there
were some people who opposed
00:11:46.19\00:11:50.70
to strengthening
legislation against hate crimes.
00:11:50.71\00:11:54.44
Well, we should be
very much against hate.
00:11:55.05\00:11:57.55
People of faith should be
people of love. All right.
00:11:59.45\00:12:03.14
And they should seek
to use persuasive methods
00:12:03.17\00:12:07.02
to bring people over
to what they believe,
00:12:07.03\00:12:09.71
as opposed to using force,
as opposed to using hatred
00:12:09.72\00:12:14.03
and misusing the
power of religion.
00:12:14.04\00:12:17.42
We've had programs
on the topic before
00:12:17.43\00:12:19.93
and one of the concerns
that I have with hate crimes is,
00:12:19.94\00:12:22.26
what I think is
reasonable expression.
00:12:22.27\00:12:25.04
Someone else can
see he's hateful,
00:12:25.05\00:12:26.32
and can very easily
marginalize or outlaw
00:12:26.33\00:12:28.72
legitimate religious
expression, among other things.
00:12:28.73\00:12:31.85
Some would seek to do
that even with religion,
00:12:32.03\00:12:34.75
and interpretation
of Bible scripture.
00:12:34.78\00:12:38.84
So, we can see
that this discussion
00:12:38.85\00:12:40.74
is leading quickly in
some very serious directions.
00:12:40.75\00:12:44.54
And after the break we're
going to discuss a little bit
00:12:44.55\00:12:47.63
more about
Religious Liberty at large,
00:12:47.64\00:12:48.63
and how it relates
to the civil society.
00:12:48.64\00:12:51.42
One hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:13:00.89\00:13:04.15
much less publish a magazine.
00:13:04.16\00:13:06.06
But this year, Liberty,
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:06.07\00:13:09.65
voice of religious freedom,
00:13:09.66\00:13:10.84
celebrates 100 years of
doing what it does best.
00:13:10.85\00:13:14.44
Collecting, analyzing and
reporting the ebb and flow
00:13:14.45\00:13:18.27
of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:18.28\00:13:20.53
Issue after issue, Liberty has
taken on the tough assignments,
00:13:20.92\00:13:24.79
tracking down
threats to religious freedom
00:13:24.80\00:13:27.10
and exposing the
work of the devil
00:13:27.11\00:13:28.58
in every corner of the globe.
00:13:28.59\00:13:30.42
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:30.78\00:13:33.29
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:13:33.30\00:13:36.34
sequestered within the
church community itself
00:13:36.35\00:13:38.40
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:38.41\00:13:40.95
Liberty exists for one purpose,
to help God's people maintain
00:13:41.84\00:13:45.96
that all important
separation of church and state,
00:13:45.97\00:13:48.81
while recognizing the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:48.82\00:13:52.41
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:13:53.10\00:13:55.61
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:13:55.62\00:13:58.54
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line of
00:13:59.29\00:14:02.02
dedicated Adventist
editors, three of whom represent
00:14:02.03\00:14:04.36
almost half of the
Publication's existence
00:14:04.37\00:14:06.51
and the foresight of a
little woman from New England.
00:14:06.52\00:14:09.78
One hundred years of struggle,
one hundred years of victories.
00:14:10.12\00:14:14.22
Religious
freedom isn't just about
00:14:14.23\00:14:16.35
political machines
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:16.36\00:14:19.01
It's about people,
fighting for the right
00:14:19.02\00:14:22.13
to serve the God they love,
00:14:22.14\00:14:24.01
as their hearts and
the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:24.02\00:14:27.19
Thanks to the prayers
and generous support of
00:14:27.73\00:14:29.82
Seventh-Day
Adventists everywhere.
00:14:29.83\00:14:31.72
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work of
00:14:32.20\00:14:34.56
providing timely information,
spirit-filled inspiration
00:14:34.57\00:14:37.54
and heaven sent encouragement
to all who long to live
00:14:37.55\00:14:41.51
and work in a
world bound together
00:14:41.52\00:14:44.17
by the God ordained
bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:44.18\00:14:48.03
Welcome back to Liberty Insider,
00:14:58.06\00:14:59.70
before the break
I was talking with
00:14:59.71\00:15:01.75
Dr. Clarence Hodges
about Proposition 8 Conundrum
00:15:02.13\00:15:05.78
in California. And
really the same issue
00:15:06.14\00:15:07.78
has been played
out in many states.
00:15:07.79\00:15:09.26
And it's really
before the whole U.S. society
00:15:09.72\00:15:12.63
because it's a
contentious issue.
00:15:12.90\00:15:14.23
Although, even at this
point I think that two thirds
00:15:14.59\00:15:17.17
of people checked are
not in favor of gay marriage.
00:15:17.63\00:15:21.27
And, and I think by
default then comfortable with
00:15:21.41\00:15:24.38
standard western
view of marriage,
00:15:25.50\00:15:26.91
which is not
necessarily synonymous with
00:15:26.92\00:15:29.65
the Biblical
view, but is parallel.
00:15:29.66\00:15:31.99
But we were talking about,
00:15:32.56\00:15:33.58
you know how active should
Christians be in advancing
00:15:34.55\00:15:36.95
the law that, that
has very clear Biblical or
00:15:36.96\00:15:40.90
Christian mandate. I
have to comment on the
00:15:40.91\00:15:44.87
temperance
movement in early Adventism.
00:15:44.88\00:15:46.88
You're well aware of that.
00:15:47.01\00:15:48.04
Oh sure. And I, I
grew up as my father was a
00:15:48.05\00:15:51.71
temperance leader, so
I grew up in all these
00:15:51.72\00:15:53.56
stories on the logic of
early Adventist involvement.
00:15:53.57\00:15:56.59
Ellen White, a
pioneer Adventist and,
00:15:57.18\00:16:00.17
held by most Adventists
to be inspired of God as a
00:16:00.18\00:16:03.97
prophet. But in her
role as a pioneer Adventist,
00:16:03.98\00:16:07.69
was an incredible activist
for the temperance cause.
00:16:07.70\00:16:11.01
You got a comment about her?
00:16:14.28\00:16:15.25
How would you characterized
Ellen White's temperance
00:16:15.84\00:16:18.13
activities, was it just
something she did on the side?
00:16:18.14\00:16:20.62
Well, I would not see it
as something on the side.
00:16:21.25\00:16:24.26
It was a health
issue and temperance the,
00:16:24.27\00:16:29.34
the mission, the approach
to dealing with temperance
00:16:29.62\00:16:34.22
was one largely of education.
00:16:34.63\00:16:36.67
And we have
that same need today.
00:16:37.43\00:16:39.63
There are people who are not
aware of what intemperance is?
00:16:39.87\00:16:44.20
And how intemperance takes away
00:16:44.21\00:16:46.77
from one's
lifespan and one's health.
00:16:46.78\00:16:50.00
Well, she had a very spiritual
application that it was tied up
00:16:50.37\00:16:53.19
to... reinstating
the image of God in man.
00:16:53.20\00:16:58.44
The corrupting health
practices or unhealthy practices
00:16:59.50\00:17:02.56
that dull man's
perception of spiritual things.
00:17:02.57\00:17:04.62
As far as it's
related to the public's fear,
00:17:04.95\00:17:07.15
she once said that
the temperance topic,
00:17:07.95\00:17:09.71
which was not just to
Adventists but to mostly other
00:17:10.48\00:17:14.96
religious gathering. She
said it was her favorite topic.
00:17:14.97\00:17:17.40
And then further... for
awhile it was a problematic
00:17:18.11\00:17:20.59
statement for me, as an
Adventist religious liberty
00:17:20.60\00:17:23.58
worker. She said that it
was such an important issue
00:17:23.59\00:17:26.85
that if necessary they
should vote on Sabbath. Yes.
00:17:27.38\00:17:31.19
So, I think it
was pretty central.
00:17:31.50\00:17:33.57
But as I've looked at
what she and the early
00:17:34.38\00:17:36.71
Adventist pioneers
did. They were not at all
00:17:36.72\00:17:39.80
embarrassed or
hesitant about becoming party
00:17:40.13\00:17:42.94
to a movement that
had a political goal.
00:17:42.95\00:17:45.10
And it was not just
Adventists by any means,
00:17:45.79\00:17:47.45
it was a broad social
movement at that time.
00:17:47.46\00:17:50.31
But it ended up in
the prohibition amendment,
00:17:50.32\00:17:52.41
which was then
repealed some years later by
00:17:52.55\00:17:55.38
special interest, I think
that they were inclined to say,
00:17:55.39\00:17:58.35
as they still say,
that it was a failure,
00:17:58.36\00:17:59.97
but that's another story.
00:18:00.17\00:18:01.61
But, that was not a
church doctrine per say.
00:18:03.08\00:18:07.90
That was, they treated this
as a matter of public morality.
00:18:07.91\00:18:11.42
And, and it was indeed
the, the opened salons and the
00:18:12.36\00:18:16.11
disruption of
families and so on,
00:18:16.12\00:18:17.91
was actually
destroying the very fabric
00:18:18.23\00:18:20.39
of society. So,
they appealed to it on
00:18:20.40\00:18:23.03
that level. And I don't
know think that can be directly
00:18:23.04\00:18:25.27
acquitted as I'm saying
with the narrow religious
00:18:25.28\00:18:31.02
application, that's behind
the Proposition 8 type logic.
00:18:32.96\00:18:37.62
There are, the
issue is physical,
00:18:38.01\00:18:41.66
mental and spiritual.
00:18:41.85\00:18:43.35
And God is very much
concerned about our health.
00:18:44.38\00:18:49.03
He wants us to
be in good health.
00:18:49.61\00:18:51.31
He wants us to have an
abundance of good health.
00:18:51.32\00:18:55.38
And temperance requires
it. And we need to understand
00:18:56.16\00:19:00.45
what temperance is, what
it means to be temperate.
00:19:00.46\00:19:02.84
And Ellen White, as
you said stress that,
00:19:03.75\00:19:08.32
as she stressed
health in general, yeah,
00:19:08.33\00:19:10.57
was a major part of
the body spiritually.
00:19:10.96\00:19:16.99
Now, you know she has a
strong message that, that
00:19:17.78\00:19:20.09
a large number of
Adventists subscribe too,
00:19:20.38\00:19:22.77
that we are better off
not eating meat even though
00:19:22.78\00:19:25.11
the Bible allows
eating of the clean animals,
00:19:25.12\00:19:29.91
but her recommendation
for a number of reasons,
00:19:30.40\00:19:32.57
practical and
spiritual, was non-meat eating.
00:19:32.58\00:19:35.18
But there's no evidence
that Ellen White and the early
00:19:35.53\00:19:37.49
Adventist were
pushing for legislation
00:19:37.50\00:19:39.86
to require vegetarianism.
00:19:40.16\00:19:42.42
No, no. No, so this
temperance issue was seen
00:19:42.68\00:19:46.49
as a matter of public
morality and, and she took
00:19:46.50\00:19:49.24
it a little further,
consistent with the temperance
00:19:49.25\00:19:52.26
performance for the
time. Part of it was the, the
00:19:52.27\00:19:54.98
great social abuse of
those who were selling liquor to
00:19:54.99\00:19:58.63
profit from the
misfortune of other people.
00:19:58.64\00:20:00.82
So, this was a
broad-based question of honesty
00:20:01.15\00:20:05.62
public morality
and public health.
00:20:06.27\00:20:08.78
And, and her, the
main goal was not to force
00:20:09.32\00:20:11.88
legislation past the majority
of the people to sort of
00:20:11.89\00:20:15.21
trick them into something
then requiring of the doubt.
00:20:15.22\00:20:17.40
It was to rally society to
see that, that it had gone off
00:20:17.41\00:20:21.09
the rails. And to get that
the mothers and the families
00:20:21.10\00:20:24.21
to, to help the
fathers and sons,
00:20:24.22\00:20:28.67
particular through
banning of the alcohol.
00:20:28.79\00:20:31.87
And what will, it was
doing to society and the...the
00:20:32.90\00:20:37.30
unfair marketing, we didn't
have the limits on marketing.
00:20:37.31\00:20:42.45
And people were being
persuaded to be intemperate
00:20:43.10\00:20:49.19
and to use that
which destroys the body
00:20:49.55\00:20:52.31
not even knowing
what it was doing to them.
00:20:52.63\00:20:55.76
Right, anyhow that, we
should maybe have a program
00:20:56.34\00:20:59.66
on it sometime. And I know
I put it out on this program.
00:20:59.67\00:21:02.51
I didn't know it
until my father told me,
00:21:02.91\00:21:04.90
shortly after I
started the Liberty Magazine,
00:21:04.91\00:21:07.40
that... in the Seventh-day
Adventist church for many
00:21:07.88\00:21:11.52
decades the Religious
Liberty work and the temperance
00:21:11.53\00:21:14.58
work were in the same
department because they were
00:21:14.59\00:21:16.81
really see in those,
the mechanism of working
00:21:16.82\00:21:20.42
through government and public
agencies was very similar but...
00:21:20.43\00:21:25.58
And we need
Liberty from abuses...
00:21:26.15\00:21:29.29
of course, that
destroy the body.
00:21:29.30\00:21:30.70
Exactly, because
they are enslaving
00:21:30.71\00:21:33.08
and deprived of Liberty.
00:21:33.71\00:21:35.05
Let's take a
little different tack,
00:21:35.48\00:21:36.72
there is something
that I saw on the Internet,
00:21:37.11\00:21:38.86
which is full of truths
and mistruths, miscalculations
00:21:39.03\00:21:43.13
and paranoia. Yes. But I
saw a program the other day
00:21:43.14\00:21:46.72
that was on
YouTube. And goodness,
00:21:46.73\00:21:49.55
now the stuff on YouTube
will curl your hair somewhat,
00:21:49.56\00:21:51.91
but this was a re-run of
a television program down
00:21:51.92\00:21:54.81
in Louisiana. I
think it was Shreveport,
00:21:54.82\00:21:58.10
but it was down
close to that area.
00:21:58.25\00:22:00.61
It was a standard
television program that had been
00:22:01.01\00:22:03.89
posted there, on
regular broadcast.
00:22:04.10\00:22:07.47
And it was a matter of concern
about emergency planning,
00:22:08.33\00:22:12.50
and I think we started
this program didn't we,
00:22:12.51\00:22:14.19
by talking about
some of the discussions in
00:22:14.20\00:22:18.02
government to
maintain law and order.
00:22:18.03\00:22:19.73
And FEMA, which is the
Federal Emergency Management,
00:22:20.44\00:22:24.23
Administration, Administration,
that was administration
00:22:25.10\00:22:27.07
or authority. Of necessity
and it was common sense of
00:22:27.08\00:22:31.81
preparing for any
number of emergencies,
00:22:31.82\00:22:33.83
whether they're health
pandemics or natural disaster
00:22:33.84\00:22:37.08
or even war and destruction,
terrorism, you name it.
00:22:37.83\00:22:40.99
And according to this television
program in that planning,
00:22:41.54\00:22:45.01
FEMA has been working
with ministers of religion,
00:22:45.02\00:22:47.82
as they're community leaders,
not illogical or improper.
00:22:48.16\00:22:51.80
And a number of the
ministers were on the television
00:22:52.22\00:22:54.77
program giving their
response, that was not his side.
00:22:54.78\00:22:57.33
And, and they recounted
how the FEMA instructions
00:22:58.47\00:23:01.41
are that in an emergency of
all the previous conditions.
00:23:01.42\00:23:05.12
They had to gather their
members to gather in the church.
00:23:05.46\00:23:08.00
And then reassert
those statement of Paul,
00:23:08.60\00:23:13.16
where the authorities
have mandated of God,
00:23:13.17\00:23:15.64
they exercised the
authority from God.
00:23:15.65\00:23:18.06
They are a terror only to
the, to the, to the criminal
00:23:18.91\00:23:23.05
and the person who is
breaking the law not to the
00:23:23.73\00:23:25.75
righteous person. And that we
should obey the law of the land.
00:23:25.76\00:23:29.50
You know that's, was
more than a half truth,
00:23:30.38\00:23:32.69
it's the truth as Paul
said it, but if you misapply it,
00:23:32.70\00:23:35.20
that you can be required to obey
as they did in World War two,
00:23:35.30\00:23:39.26
the Nazis with
the Lutheran Church,
00:23:39.27\00:23:42.87
were pushing the
idea that they owed it
00:23:43.43\00:23:45.04
to God to obey the Nazi regime.
00:23:45.47\00:23:47.33
Well. You know, there's
good and bad laws and rulers,
00:23:47.34\00:23:52.95
that was bad
enough. But then they said,
00:23:53.49\00:23:55.33
they had been directed by
the authorities to give that
00:23:55.34\00:23:58.56
message. And any person
that did not accept that,
00:23:58.57\00:24:02.36
reacted negatively and indicated
they would do something else,
00:24:02.73\00:24:06.46
then they were
to get their names
00:24:06.47\00:24:07.94
and report them
to the authorities.
00:24:07.95\00:24:09.67
You know that really troubles
me on separation of church and
00:24:10.67\00:24:13.27
state. And the potential for
restricting religious activity.
00:24:13.28\00:24:18.98
Yes, that would be totally
inappropriate for a governmental
00:24:19.45\00:24:22.83
agency to come and
bring a quote from the Bible.
00:24:22.84\00:24:28.66
And to direct religious leaders
to use this Biblical passage
00:24:30.22\00:24:37.26
in support of what
that agency is doing.
00:24:37.88\00:24:40.00
I will say that is
totally inappropriate.
00:24:40.53\00:24:42.41
Their job is not to
present a message from God,
00:24:43.08\00:24:47.30
that's what they
are trying to do.
00:24:48.23\00:24:49.56
And it should be rejected
and to try to get clergy to
00:24:50.19\00:24:57.21
report people who do not
accept this is even worse.
00:24:57.60\00:25:03.49
That's right. So it has
to be rejected and we need to
00:25:03.64\00:25:07.53
make sure that
true thought leaders,
00:25:07.54\00:25:10.48
political leaders are aware
of this kind of inappropriate
00:25:10.49\00:25:14.05
activity on the
part of anyone from FEMA,
00:25:14.06\00:25:17.02
if that's the way it done there.
00:25:17.03\00:25:19.03
Oh! That's what I wanted to say,
00:25:19.37\00:25:20.37
I have no way of knowing
if this is just a standard
00:25:20.80\00:25:22.62
operating practice. It
could have been some of the
00:25:22.63\00:25:25.00
zealous official in that
area training that misspoke.
00:25:25.01\00:25:28.60
But the reality is, it's a
clear reality that that was what
00:25:29.00\00:25:31.74
happened there. And it was,
it was problematic enough to
00:25:31.75\00:25:34.65
some of the ministers of
religion that they went public
00:25:34.66\00:25:36.69
and there was a
local program made about.
00:25:36.70\00:25:38.62
It got my attention
because Seventh-day Adventist
00:25:39.56\00:25:42.83
have certain ideas of
end time scenarios based on
00:25:44.30\00:25:47.05
prophecy and some long
standing understanding,
00:25:47.06\00:25:50.82
long term
understanding that we've had.
00:25:51.18\00:25:53.04
And that's precisely
what we believe will happen.
00:25:53.43\00:25:55.63
I know in Ellen White's
writings she says that when the
00:25:55.88\00:25:58.73
Sunday law comes and
that's not the only way the
00:25:58.74\00:26:02.23
religious oppression can come
but it's a significant marker
00:26:02.38\00:26:06.13
of, of a government
requiring religious observance.
00:26:06.90\00:26:09.64
So, when the Sunday
law comes in this country,
00:26:09.65\00:26:11.75
which is not imminent
or at least apparent at the
00:26:12.06\00:26:14.73
moment, but when that comes
she says that the ministers of
00:26:14.74\00:26:18.61
religious will
say precisely that.
00:26:18.62\00:26:20.52
That the state is to be
respected and that we should
00:26:21.85\00:26:25.01
obey this law because
God has told us to obey the
00:26:25.02\00:26:27.74
authorities and they
quote that statement from Paul.
00:26:27.75\00:26:30.02
The state is not a
spokesperson for God.
00:26:30.54\00:26:33.42
That's true, as
Peter and John said
00:26:33.97\00:26:36.10
when they were
challenged there in the temple.
00:26:36.11\00:26:37.41
I said whether it is
better to obey God or man,
00:26:37.42\00:26:40.20
and clearly the answer
is when the test comes,
00:26:40.65\00:26:43.29
we obey God not man.
00:26:43.58\00:26:45.08
Even though we
respect all earthly authority.
00:26:45.44\00:26:47.85
Justice it is not for just us.
00:26:49.41\00:26:52.90
It is respect for all of
God's children and when we
00:26:53.94\00:26:59.99
look at the issues of
justice. It involves authority
00:27:00.00\00:27:04.78
and the exercise of such.
The day will come when most,
00:27:05.52\00:27:10.53
if not all of us will be
able to exercise some authority
00:27:10.54\00:27:15.01
over someone else.
Whether it's an adult
00:27:15.38\00:27:18.56
child relationship
or adult- to-adult.
00:27:18.57\00:27:21.64
Authority exercising authority
in situations that involved
00:27:22.81\00:27:29.08
justice. Remember,
it is not for just us.
00:27:29.09\00:27:34.45
It is for all of God's
children and the respect that is
00:27:35.20\00:27:39.94
accorded others
will also be accorded us.
00:27:39.95\00:27:43.71
We will reap what we sow.
Let's seek to take justice
00:27:44.66\00:27:49.47
to every human being
whether they are a majority,
00:27:50.12\00:27:53.07
minority. Whether they
are in control of power or
00:27:53.64\00:27:57.17
whether they are powerless.
Let's exercise justice
00:27:57.18\00:28:00.97
with justice and freedom.
00:28:01.59\00:28:04.52
I'm Clarence Hodges
for Liberty Insider.
00:28:06.59\00:28:09.51