Welcome to The Liberty Insider,
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this is the program
bringing you up-to-date
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reviews, views and discussion
on religions liberty events
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not only in the US
but around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on this
program is Dr. John Graz.
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How you doing? We've
got several hats, John.
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Yeah. The one
that I want to emphasis
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here today on this
program is that you are
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the Director for the
Seventh Adventist Church
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of the public affairs and
religious liberty department
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in our world headquarters. Yeah.
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And such you and I
work very closely together.
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Exactly. Offices not far apart.
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But that's it I
don't see you that much,
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you're traveling an awful lot.
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Yes. What are some other things
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you're doing is
you travel the world.
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Well, I am also
Secretary General
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of the International
Religious Liberty association
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which has been
chartered in 1893,
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you know, sometime we
talk about the tradition
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about Religious
Freedom, the Adventist Church
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has a very strong tradition--
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Almost from the very
beginning of the church--
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From the beginning of the--
church they're very sensitive
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about the issue
of Religious Freedom
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and they were always
on the side of defending,
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promoting Religious
Freedom, not just for them
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but as a principle
and for all people.
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That's very interesting.
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And they started
to have an association
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which will give them the--
possibility to include people
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from other
beliefs, or faiths, keeping,
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refocusing on
the same principle,
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the very strong principle
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of Religious Freedom
for all as a principle.
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And it's a good point about
the--Working with other people.
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Absolutely, the IRLA is
not exclusively Adventist
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we've taken a lead in
establishing it. Yeah.
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But most of the,
the major office holders
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are not Seventh-day Adventists.
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Yes, several of
them and specially among
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our team of expert, we
have in our board of expert
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and fortunately
probably the best expert
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in the world, are
member of our team expert.
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And in this team
of expert the majority
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is not Adventist but
they, they really share
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a vision about
Religious Freedom.
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Freedom for all,
you know, the freedom
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to choose your faiths, to--
have or not to have a faith.
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And that's a very
important and it has to
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be of course
according to your own conscious.
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And that, that's
a strong principle
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and we have been
strong as a church,
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and I think that
now many, many churches
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recognize that the Adventist
church is one of the leaders
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but it's going to
change. Because now you know
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more and more
the Catholic church
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is very involved in
defending Religious Freedom.
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Because they have
some very particular
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problems in the middle east--
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Exactly when you
have members in every part
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I of the world,
middle east, China
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and so who are
prosecuted, of course,
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you, you went to defend
Religious Freedom for all.
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Then why do you think
though, I've never discussed
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this on this program,
why, what was the dynamic that,
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that really directed
Adventist outwards so quickly
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with the IRLA.
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Because, you know,
I've often said and I think
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on this program in
other sessions that,
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that when they're only about
25,000 Seventh Day Adventists.
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Yeah. In the United States,
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which was their
limit at that point,
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nearly a thousand of them
had run foul of blue laws,
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we'd find some imprisoned
and some even in chain gangs
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because of their
particular problem.
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Yeah. You would think
that they would be incredibly
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focused on their
own religious problem
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rather than anxious to defend
others--No, they saw. You know,
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they saw the principle
for all, you know, the freedom
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to choose your religion is
for all, because you cannot
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really believing
the God who loves people
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and at the same time
coheres people, force people.
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It means, you know, religion
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has to be and to
stay a matter of choice,
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you have to choose
and it's you choose
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according to your conscience.
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And as you say, you
know, the Religious Freedom
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in the century 19th
century among the Adventists
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were very strong, we were
just a small group of people.
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But you know, they
collected more than 250,000
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signature against
the, the blue law.
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And they have these
time, they have magazine
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published every two weeks.
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It means we are still
back comparing to them
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in the 19th century, at
the end of the 19th century,
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beginning 20, the 20th century,
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the Adventists were
very, very strong in defending
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and promoting Religious Freedom.
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One of the major
forces of that time. Yes.
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And in fact most of
the other religious forces
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to do with church state issues,
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they were going
the wrong direction,
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weren't they,
they were anxious--
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Exactly. To use the
power of Lord to uphold
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their Christian
faith, which is a bad dynamic
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when you're
talking about universal--
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And of course we can say
it, because we are a minority,
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that's true. But you
know, it's more than that
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is because we believe in
the principle of free choice.
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What I was thinking when
I even asked the question
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was I think it's an
outgrowth of, of the eschatology
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of the
Seventh-day Adventists. Yeah.
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That believe that at some
point at the very end of time
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they will be a
universal attempt to compel
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people to a
certain form of worship.
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And they even see,
believe that the United States
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will be part of that.
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In fact will
play a leading role.
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So that they, from the
get go Seventh Adventist
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saw all people being involved,
not just their little group.
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This is what, you
know, in our point of view
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there is a very
strong prophetic dimension
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in our defense and--
promoting Religious Freedom,
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promotion of Religious Freedom.
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Why? Because we believe
that will be our last battle.
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It means we cannot say,
okay now we, we are addressed,
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we don't need to defend
Religious Freedom anymore,
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because we have
freedom in many countries.
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We believe that it will be
an issue until the last day--
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Absolutely. And that would
be the last battle between God
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and the opposing and
the enemy of the God,
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who are not for
Religious Freedom.
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You know, the
beast, the false prophet,
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the dragon, what are they doing?
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With the
terminology that-- Yeah,
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It's all
straight from the Bible.
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Yeah, what are they all
doing? They persecute people,
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they force people.
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Right. In opposition the people
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have got respect
freedom of conscious.
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And you well know,
traveling the world,
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there are many positive
signs and, and some significant
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portions of the
world have adequate
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Religious
Freedoms and existing law.
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Many, many
countries have problems
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and that was the key foundation,
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I think, recently the survey
70% of the world's population
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lives in countries where
there are severe restriction--
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Severe restriction and
they are countries we can say
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eleven countries in the world,
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you know, according
to the constitution,
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through their law if
you change your religion
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you will be executed--
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Such an strange
restriction on religious--
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About fifty
countries in the world
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if you change your religion
you may have a serious problem,
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you will maybe arrested or
you maybe killed by your family.
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You will be persecuted for sure.
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And we receive
letter testimony of people
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who became Christian
or changed their religion
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and they say that they have
been, they had been rejected
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from their family,
they had a lot of problem.
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You know, when it
is, there are woman,
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they lose their
children and so that's terrible.
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And we cannot just
say, oh, that's going on,
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you know,
that's not our problem.
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And, and part of the
dynamic that I've learn
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firsthand in dealing
with religious liberty
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is that when you're looking
at one of these countries
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that may restrict
all, but state religion
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or generally accept the--
societal cultural religion.
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It's not enough to even
get freedom for your church
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or the Adventists, or some
missionary be free to operate,
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unless all religions and all
religious practices accept it--
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This is why sometimes--
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Selected persecution,
that's not much better.
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Yeah, sometime they are
low like now in Hungary,
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you can imagine in Hungary,
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the Seventh-day Adventist
church have been recognize
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for more than one century
even during the communist,
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they recognize our church.
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I know they pass a new law
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where the church
is not recognized,
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only fourteen
churches and religious group
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are recognized.
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But they say,
okay, you know, probably
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in the next round
you will be recognized.
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Probably. Probably, but--
we are against this law even
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if we were recognized,
because you know, we are
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defending the
principle of Religious Freedom
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for all in we don't
believe in discrimination.
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And registration
is a subtle way to--
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To discriminate
one way or another.
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Restrict the religions
on the margins, isn't it?
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Because you can
have maybe ten religions
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that the state accepts but
everybody else is out of there.
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And then you
know, when we discuss
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with people from the government.
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And they say, there is
no problem, you know, being
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recognized will
not give anything more
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except probably some money.
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But if you are not
you will be still able
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to have your worship and
even to built a big church
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where you want.
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But you know in practice
it doesn't even in practice--
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Well, it
practices the very least
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the state
sponsors their budgets--
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And, and you imagine
you go to an administration
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and you say, we would like
to built a big church in town--
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Who are you? The first
question they will ask,
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who are you, you
are even not a church.
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Yeah, you are not registered.
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And, and you are not registered.
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Yeah, do you think this
is sort of out of my field,
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but do you think
the United States
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is heading towards some
sort of registration of religion
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where there is an explosion of
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many different religious
entities, do you think that--
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I do know, there is
probably a temptation but,
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you know, it's not according
to the tradition of the US.
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No. But in many other
countries where before
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having religious pluralism,
you have just one church
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it's more in their mind to
say, okay we have to control.
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There are too many churches,
too many religious group,
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we have to control
them and you try to control
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and you try to do and
you start to discriminate--
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I've always thought and
I've said in other discussions
00:10:03.25\00:10:06.20
that back a few years
when the faith based initiative
00:10:06.21\00:10:09.89
was brought into
the United States
00:10:09.90\00:10:11.37
by President Bush and for
many of us it seemed like a very
00:10:11.38\00:10:15.66
calculated step across the line
00:10:15.67\00:10:17.64
of the constitutional
separation of church and state,
00:10:17.65\00:10:21.56
but in so doing
giving money to the churches
00:10:21.57\00:10:24.46
in a way they hadn't before,
I thought that they're almost
00:10:24.47\00:10:28.48
certain to develop a
list of acceptable churches,
00:10:28.49\00:10:31.35
with sort of a back--Yeah,
a miss part like that.
00:10:31.36\00:10:32.82
A backdoor registration. Yeah.
00:10:32.83\00:10:34.91
Not really overtly
registering churches,
00:10:34.92\00:10:37.48
but government entities
have decided ahead of times,
00:10:37.49\00:10:40.44
which churches are above board
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in their view and
worthy of Government trust.
00:10:43.50\00:10:46.26
You know, there
always been a tension between
00:10:46.27\00:10:49.08
State and Church, it means
the church wanted the churches
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wanted to be independent from
the State but the other side
00:10:52.71\00:10:55.73
the State, they always
wanted to control the church.
00:10:55.74\00:10:59.37
Yeah. And you know,
it's just like a tension
00:10:59.38\00:11:02.06
and kind of game, you know,
who will dominate the others
00:11:02.07\00:11:05.41
and of course they are priced.
00:11:05.42\00:11:07.64
This is why more and
more we an see around them
00:11:07.65\00:11:10.24
a world kind of alliance between
00:11:10.25\00:11:12.64
some Churches and the State.
00:11:12.65\00:11:14.66
But for us, it's not
good because, you know,
00:11:14.67\00:11:17.92
the church has to keep
their message and their mission.
00:11:17.93\00:11:21.11
And as you describe it,
it's sort of a natural human
00:11:21.12\00:11:23.96
tendency whether you're, you're
in government or in the church.
00:11:23.97\00:11:26.96
That you want
to protect the turf
00:11:26.97\00:11:28.33
and gain the most benefits.
00:11:28.34\00:11:29.68
So this is the stance.
I think it's less likely
00:11:29.69\00:11:32.48
any time soon in
the United States
00:11:32.49\00:11:33.86
because there is
no one single church.
00:11:33.87\00:11:36.00
The best you can come up
00:11:36.01\00:11:38.09
with is a monolithic
coalition if you like,
00:11:38.10\00:11:40.86
of a certain
religious viewpoint that merges
00:11:40.87\00:11:43.57
politics and
religion. That could come about.
00:11:43.58\00:11:47.17
And this is one of the
principle of the association.
00:11:47.18\00:11:49.53
It's really to
maintain and to develop,
00:11:49.54\00:11:52.03
to promote the separation
between Church and State.
00:11:52.04\00:11:54.65
Because there is no
way, you know, as you said,
00:11:54.66\00:11:57.27
if you start to
combine Church and State,
00:11:57.28\00:11:59.62
you will have to
discriminate other.
00:11:59.63\00:12:02.31
And it's not Religious Freedom.
00:12:02.32\00:12:04.76
We cannot deal with that.
00:12:04.77\00:12:06.20
And at the end it's
not good for the State
00:12:06.21\00:12:07.99
and it's not
good for the Church.
00:12:08.00\00:12:10.35
That's right. And in
promoting Religious Liberty,
00:12:10.36\00:12:12.53
I'm glad you brought that out.
00:12:12.54\00:12:13.77
We're not in any
country bringing suggesting
00:12:13.78\00:12:17.64
that will
disadvantage the secular state.
00:12:17.65\00:12:20.01
It actually creates for
a most secular environment
00:12:20.02\00:12:21.01
for the State and-- the
security, the civil security
00:12:23.92\00:12:27.04
of its citizenry and the
spiritual life of anybody
00:12:27.05\00:12:29.95
who wants to
practice the religious rights.
00:12:29.96\00:12:31.61
It's been proven by
many examples, hasn't it?
00:12:31.62\00:12:34.45
That this is the
most harmonious way
00:12:34.46\00:12:36.27
to carry this forward.
00:12:36.28\00:12:38.23
There's a lot to
discuss with Dr. Graz.
00:12:38.24\00:12:40.63
We'll be back after the
break to further this discussion
00:12:40.64\00:12:43.80
of his work, globally, for
Religious Liberty and the IRLA,
00:12:43.81\00:12:47.41
as a representative for the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:12:47.42\00:12:49.84
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything,
00:12:58.69\00:13:02.59
much less publish a magazine,
00:13:02.60\00:13:04.53
but this year Liberty,
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:04.54\00:13:07.91
voice of Religious Freedom,
celebrates one hundred years
00:13:07.92\00:13:11.50
of doing what it does
best, collecting, analyzing,
00:13:11.51\00:13:14.68
and reporting the ebb and flow
00:13:14.69\00:13:16.71
of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:16.72\00:13:19.20
Issue after issue,
Liberty has taken on the tough
00:13:19.21\00:13:22.56
assignments, tracking down
threats to Religious Freedom
00:13:22.57\00:13:25.45
and exposing the
work of the devil
00:13:25.46\00:13:26.92
in every corner of the globe.
00:13:26.93\00:13:29.29
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:29.30\00:13:31.78
corporate assaults,
even Religious Freedom issues
00:13:31.79\00:13:34.65
sequestered within the
Church community itself
00:13:34.66\00:13:36.88
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:36.89\00:13:39.57
Liberty exists for one
purpose to help God's people
00:13:39.58\00:13:43.69
maintain that all important
separation of Church and State,
00:13:43.70\00:13:47.21
while recognizing the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:47.22\00:13:50.93
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:13:50.94\00:13:53.88
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:13:53.89\00:13:57.14
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line
00:13:57.15\00:14:00.26
of dedicated Adventist Editors,
00:14:00.27\00:14:01.89
three of whom represent
almost half of the publication's
00:14:01.90\00:14:04.39
existence and the foresight
00:14:04.40\00:14:06.22
of a little
woman from New England.
00:14:06.23\00:14:08.36
One hundred years of struggle,
00:14:08.37\00:14:10.46
one hundred years of
victories, Religious Freedom
00:14:10.47\00:14:13.91
isn't just about
political machines
00:14:13.92\00:14:15.92
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:15.93\00:14:17.66
It's about people
fighting for the right to serve
00:14:17.67\00:14:21.19
the God they
love as their hearts
00:14:21.20\00:14:22.19
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:23.46\00:14:25.70
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:14:25.71\00:14:28.00
of Seventh-day
Adventists everywhere.
00:14:28.01\00:14:30.45
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work
00:14:30.46\00:14:32.70
of providing timely information,
00:14:32.71\00:14:34.37
spirit filled inspiration,
and heaven sent encouragement
00:14:34.38\00:14:37.61
to all who long to
live and work in a world
00:14:37.62\00:14:41.76
bound together by the God
00:14:41.77\00:14:43.40
ordained bonds of
Religious Freedom.
00:14:43.41\00:14:46.54
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider
00:14:56.49\00:14:58.42
before the break I
was talking with my guest
00:14:58.43\00:15:00.64
Dr. John Graz,
about -- first of all,
00:15:00.65\00:15:03.56
I introduced you
as the World Director
00:15:03.62\00:15:06.79
of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:15:06.80\00:15:07.82
of the Public Affairs and
Religious Liberty Department.
00:15:07.83\00:15:10.72
And then we got to
talking about the IRLA
00:15:10.73\00:15:13.51
and then we got into philosophy,
00:15:13.52\00:15:14.88
which is the
whole reason we do this.
00:15:14.89\00:15:18.28
But now, I want to bring
it back more particular again.
00:15:18.29\00:15:20.69
Sure. I edit Liberty Magazine.
00:15:20.70\00:15:23.19
Our viewers know that. Yeah.
00:15:23.20\00:15:25.02
It's a magazine
that our church began
00:15:25.03\00:15:26.78
one-hundred and
six years are gone now.
00:15:26.79\00:15:30.61
But you have a publication
out of the headquarters
00:15:30.62\00:15:33.86
it's not the
competitive to Liberty in fact.
00:15:33.87\00:15:35.82
Yeah, no it's a
complimentary, yeah.
00:15:35.83\00:15:37.41
Yes, we hope you
in some ways produce
00:15:37.42\00:15:39.60
this but maybe you can hold
that up to show our viewers.
00:15:39.61\00:15:42.18
Yeah, it's called--
Three days only by task.
00:15:42.19\00:15:45.69
And it's really
target, you know,
00:15:45.70\00:15:50.42
the intellectual, the scholars.
00:15:50.43\00:15:52.06
It's more of an
academic journal.
00:15:52.07\00:15:53.67
More academic, because,
you know, when you're defending
00:15:53.68\00:15:55.86
Religious Freedom you need also,
00:15:55.87\00:15:57.93
you need to work
on several levels.
00:15:57.94\00:16:00.80
You know, at the level of the
people, this is why we organize
00:16:00.81\00:16:03.70
big meeting like
Festivals of Religious Freedom.
00:16:03.71\00:16:06.31
Then you need also
to reach the scholars,
00:16:06.32\00:16:07.31
who are already
working on the similar topics.
00:16:09.02\00:16:11.97
Then you reach, you
need really to reach
00:16:11.98\00:16:14.24
the highest amongst the
scholar who are writing,
00:16:14.25\00:16:18.62
thinking, you
know, making research
00:16:18.63\00:16:20.96
about Religious Freedom.
00:16:20.97\00:16:22.11
Because you know,
when people want to change
00:16:22.12\00:16:24.61
a law they have
to read a lot about.
00:16:24.62\00:16:26.49
Now I know a
lot of the articles.
00:16:26.50\00:16:28.09
Yeah. In this
annual publication,
00:16:28.10\00:16:30.13
are actually presentations
by some of the experts at IRLA.
00:16:30.14\00:16:35.33
And you know these.
Events that you've organized.
00:16:35.34\00:16:37.12
These journal is read
in the best university
00:16:37.13\00:16:39.90
around the world and
those who are writing
00:16:39.91\00:16:42.85
in these journal are also the
best expert around the world.
00:16:42.86\00:16:46.11
Good, yeah. And it
helps a lot us. You know,
00:16:46.12\00:16:48.30
when we are visiting ambassador,
00:16:48.31\00:16:51.39
people from the
government and so on.
00:16:51.40\00:16:53.57
That's very good, as a
association we can show them
00:16:53.58\00:16:57.44
that we're not just
talking but we are supported
00:16:57.45\00:17:01.15
by a group of very
good expert and this is why
00:17:01.16\00:17:04.11
that's a part of very.
It's a very good tool for us.
00:17:04.12\00:17:07.54
Yeah. And I'm sure they
read it in this coherent
00:17:07.55\00:17:11.32
well thought out,
well researched document.
00:17:11.33\00:17:13.61
We're for great signature,
and also when you organize
00:17:13.62\00:17:15.89
congresses, symposium,
people wants to be published
00:17:15.90\00:17:19.13
and you give them the
opportunity to be published.
00:17:19.14\00:17:21.72
Now, I've been to a
number of the congresses
00:17:21.73\00:17:23.34
that you've
organized, they were wonderful.
00:17:23.35\00:17:25.12
One that I'll never
forget was in South Africa.
00:17:25.13\00:17:28.00
In Cape Town. Cape
Town. Yeah, I remember that.
00:17:28.01\00:17:30.30
Now you've
another one coming up.
00:17:30.31\00:17:31.42
Yeah we have
big. Not too faraway.
00:17:31.43\00:17:32.77
That will be our 7th World
Congress on Religious Freedom.
00:17:33.16\00:17:36.11
That will be in
April 26th to 28th.
00:17:36.12\00:17:40.17
This is April of 2012. Twelve,
then after, yes, and after
00:17:40.18\00:17:42.95
the congress we will
have the big festival
00:17:42.96\00:17:45.08
in Santo Domingo.
00:17:45.09\00:17:46.35
But the congress,
you know, will become
00:17:46.36\00:17:48.53
an event in the
world of Religious Freedom.
00:17:48.54\00:17:51.04
It will be not just
in the Adventist World
00:17:51.05\00:17:53.74
but in the world
of Religious Freedom.
00:17:53.75\00:17:55.89
The best expert
will come and the problem
00:17:55.90\00:17:58.54
we have now Lincoln
it's we've too many speakers.
00:17:58.55\00:18:01.49
Yes. And the top level speakers
00:18:01.50\00:18:03.29
and that you know I'm
In-charge of the program.
00:18:03.30\00:18:05.30
I'm the General
Coordinator and I ask me
00:18:05.31\00:18:08.36
but how I can
put all these people.
00:18:08.37\00:18:10.71
They're excellent people.
00:18:10.72\00:18:12.15
Have them speak less.
00:18:12.16\00:18:13.48
My father use to organize ICPA,
00:18:13.49\00:18:17.59
The International Commission for
the Prevention of Alcoholism.
00:18:17.60\00:18:20.36
Well, congress is very similar.
00:18:20.37\00:18:22.46
And he had people coming
from all around the world
00:18:22.47\00:18:25.14
and some of them just a
fifteen minute presentation.
00:18:25.15\00:18:27.42
Oh yeah, that's terrible
you know you has people coming
00:18:27.43\00:18:29.78
from the other
side of the world,
00:18:29.79\00:18:31.16
then you ask them to
speak fifteen minutes.
00:18:31.17\00:18:33.00
Yeah. But that's how the
way we organize congresses.
00:18:33.01\00:18:35.44
You need to have
people. You know, congresses,
00:18:35.45\00:18:38.03
you need to show that
you've a kind of authority
00:18:38.04\00:18:41.38
in inviting people who're really
00:18:41.39\00:18:43.94
the best expert in the field.
00:18:43.95\00:18:45.45
Enough too, of course,
when you have these people,
00:18:45.46\00:18:47.55
the governments
are interested and then
00:18:47.56\00:18:49.81
first you have to face, the--
problem is you've too many,
00:18:49.82\00:18:53.11
too many speakers. Then
after--Too many dignitaries.
00:18:53.12\00:18:56.34
People, official
people, they want to come too.
00:18:56.35\00:18:58.75
And only
recognized. Prime Minister
00:18:58.76\00:19:00.20
or a President of the Senate.
00:19:00.21\00:19:01.85
They want to
come because they say,
00:19:01.86\00:19:03.31
oh there are a
lot of people there.
00:19:03.32\00:19:04.58
We want to come
and you have another
00:19:04.59\00:19:06.42
challenge is that
where all you've to put them.
00:19:06.43\00:19:08.39
And I know that this
has a direct influence
00:19:08.40\00:19:10.81
on the governance
on many countries,
00:19:10.82\00:19:13.09
but particularly where
you hold those conferences.
00:19:13.10\00:19:14.99
Of course. You and
I were at that one not
00:19:15.00\00:19:17.12
too long ago in
Dominican Republic.
00:19:17.13\00:19:21.31
Which was a precursor to--
00:19:21.32\00:19:22.47
Yeah. The upcoming. And
our Regional Congresses.
00:19:22.48\00:19:24.75
I remember some
of the legislators,
00:19:24.76\00:19:26.20
they're reporting
on ongoing efforts
00:19:26.21\00:19:28.12
to rewrite their constitution.
00:19:28.13\00:19:29.75
Yeah. And so there was a
given take with attendees
00:19:29.76\00:19:32.81
that I believe was
directly informing their active.
00:19:32.82\00:19:36.28
And that is also one
Institutional Development.
00:19:36.29\00:19:38.46
Constitutional Development.
Positive side of the congress.
00:19:38.47\00:19:40.25
We encourage
people who're really
00:19:40.26\00:19:42.55
fighting for Religious Freedom.
00:19:42.56\00:19:44.70
For more Religious Freedom.
00:19:44.71\00:19:46.25
And you know, in
countries like Peru,
00:19:46.26\00:19:48.30
at the end of
all these activities,
00:19:48.31\00:19:51.01
festival, congresses, symposium.
00:19:51.02\00:19:53.38
They pass a new legislation.
00:19:53.39\00:19:54.97
And our churches know
now recognize as a Church.
00:19:54.98\00:19:59.05
And it's not just our churches.
00:19:59.06\00:20:00.70
Seventh-day
Adventist were recognized
00:20:00.71\00:20:01.82
until fairly recent improvement.
00:20:01.83\00:20:03.40
No, there were, you
know, in many countries
00:20:03.41\00:20:04.50
we are not legally recognized.
00:20:04.51\00:20:06.08
Legally recognized.
We are legally recognized
00:20:06.09\00:20:07.23
as an association, religious
organization and so on.
00:20:07.24\00:20:10.89
But not as a Church.
But they have to change
00:20:10.90\00:20:13.13
to the law in many places
to recognize you as a Church.
00:20:13.14\00:20:16.07
Of course, it
makes a lot of difference
00:20:16.08\00:20:18.08
when you're recognize at the
Church, you can build a Church.
00:20:18.09\00:20:21.26
You can call. You can
also build a religious school
00:20:21.27\00:20:25.10
without giving
explanation and so on.
00:20:25.11\00:20:27.80
Admit it's changes, your
status and it's very important.
00:20:27.81\00:20:31.28
Now Peru, I should mentioned
00:20:31.29\00:20:32.59
for those
Seventh-day Adventist watching.
00:20:32.60\00:20:34.02
We've a huge
membership there isn't--
00:20:34.03\00:20:35.70
There about half a million.
Yeah. More or less, yeah.
00:20:35.71\00:20:38.07
Incredible and in fact
other day I was thinking about,
00:20:38.08\00:20:41.94
as we filmed that
it's near Christmas time
00:20:41.95\00:20:44.62
and as I go into some of
the international food shops
00:20:44.63\00:20:47.69
that got these
Panettones these--
00:20:47.70\00:20:49.76
Yeah These Italian
style Christmas cake. Yeah.
00:20:49.77\00:20:51.67
And this year
particularly as I look at them,
00:20:51.68\00:20:54.26
I see they're not
coming from Italy.
00:20:54.27\00:20:55.44
They're coming from Peru.
00:20:55.45\00:20:56.56
They come from Seventh-day
Adventist University.
00:20:56.57\00:20:59.79
The bakery they've
that at the university.
00:20:59.80\00:21:01.57
They're the
number 1 in a country.
00:21:01.58\00:21:03.27
Yeah so that's
not Religious Liberty
00:21:03.28\00:21:05.44
but little interesting
to sign of an activity.
00:21:05.45\00:21:07.75
But which is-- The country
that's faraway from-- Yeah.
00:21:07.76\00:21:09.43
In the minds of most
Americans but very active.
00:21:09.44\00:21:12.54
You know which is interesting--
00:21:12.55\00:21:14.26
Seventh-day
Adventist Church there.
00:21:14.27\00:21:15.53
Is to see that in many
countries in Latin America,
00:21:15.54\00:21:18.61
the government and
people are more and more
00:21:18.62\00:21:21.26
open about Religious Freedom.
00:21:21.27\00:21:22.82
It was not the
case forty years ago.
00:21:22.83\00:21:24.64
Oh absolutely.
But now they are more.
00:21:24.65\00:21:26.13
And that's
interesting to see that,
00:21:26.14\00:21:27.81
the restrictions
happen in many countries.
00:21:27.82\00:21:30.30
But in some
countries of Latin American
00:21:30.31\00:21:33.51
we have more
freedom today and the Church
00:21:33.52\00:21:36.16
and all the churches
are more recognized today
00:21:36.17\00:21:38.32
than it was twenty
or thirty years ago.
00:21:38.33\00:21:40.85
This the irony and we
can talk about of it again.
00:21:40.86\00:21:42.89
But from the
beginning of this program.
00:21:42.90\00:21:44.25
I've brought out
my sermons years ago
00:21:44.26\00:21:46.33
used to emphasize an example
00:21:46.34\00:21:48.88
I got from a piece
of literature, you know.
00:21:48.89\00:21:50.56
A tale of two
cities by what's his name.
00:21:50.57\00:21:55.22
Charles Dickens, A
Tale of two Cities he says,
00:21:55.23\00:21:57.52
at the beginning it
was the best of times
00:21:57.53\00:21:59.30
and the worst of times.
00:21:59.31\00:22:00.52
And for the religious liberty
00:22:00.53\00:22:02.10
I think that's
very true isn't it.
00:22:02.11\00:22:03.69
Some of the things
that are happening in these
00:22:03.70\00:22:07.96
Middle Eastern countries
where they will actually
00:22:07.97\00:22:10.48
execute you for
changing a religion.
00:22:10.49\00:22:12.16
It's just incredible
but at the same time,
00:22:12.17\00:22:15.26
in Latin America and
elsewhere I think there's
00:22:15.27\00:22:17.13
a greater and
greater Religious Freedom.
00:22:17.14\00:22:18.85
I think the world is
sort of shaking off it's taper
00:22:18.86\00:22:21.87
of the previous years and seeing
00:22:21.88\00:22:23.96
that individuals have rights--
00:22:23.97\00:22:25.50
And you know,
which is happening now
00:22:25.51\00:22:27.47
in several
countries in Latin America
00:22:27.48\00:22:29.83
is the number of evangelicals
00:22:29.84\00:22:31.88
are really growing growing up.
00:22:31.89\00:22:33.75
And in some countries there
are close to be the majority.
00:22:33.76\00:22:36.79
It means things are changing
00:22:36.80\00:22:39.19
but you know the
concept of Religious Freedom
00:22:39.20\00:22:42.03
is to receive us the best way
00:22:42.04\00:22:44.23
to have peace in the country.
00:22:44.24\00:22:45.91
Because if you just, if you
discriminate group of churches
00:22:45.92\00:22:51.03
and you give all the
privileges and advantages
00:22:51.04\00:22:53.63
to just one church.
00:22:53.64\00:22:55.04
Of course, it's not the
best way to build peace.
00:22:55.05\00:22:57.71
Let me throw an
idea right to your eye.
00:22:57.72\00:22:59.40
I've been studying
this likely and watching
00:22:59.41\00:23:01.75
it and I do think
generally speaking throughout
00:23:01.76\00:23:05.75
the whole world even countries
that haven't yet given away.
00:23:05.76\00:23:09.44
They don't reject
but they grudgingly
00:23:09.45\00:23:11.96
some of them
accepting a concept.
00:23:11.97\00:23:14.26
Yes, people have
a right to determine
00:23:14.27\00:23:15.95
there own religious identity.
00:23:15.96\00:23:18.19
I think that's
on the ascendancy.
00:23:18.20\00:23:20.02
Yeah. What I
think is in the decline
00:23:20.03\00:23:22.22
and it's an
interesting contradiction,
00:23:22.23\00:23:23.93
is democratic concept
of the rule of the people
00:23:23.94\00:23:29.82
and of sort of the enlightenment
00:23:29.83\00:23:32.17
view of democracy. I
think that's on the decline.
00:23:32.18\00:23:34.57
Yeah. I think even in the West,
00:23:34.58\00:23:36.64
we're heading toward
autocratic represented
00:23:36.65\00:23:40.09
type government and at
some point those are going
00:23:40.10\00:23:42.66
to be the emerging still
emerging religious liberty
00:23:42.67\00:23:46.01
viewpoint is
going to be in conflict
00:23:46.02\00:23:47.35
with the ever
tightening stateism.
00:23:47.36\00:23:49.72
Yeah, you know, Lincoln,
this is why also the association
00:23:49.73\00:23:52.57
is defending Religious
Freedom and Human Rights.
00:23:52.58\00:23:55.95
And we're
defending Religious Freedom
00:23:55.96\00:23:57.73
in the Context of Human Right.
00:23:57.74\00:23:59.57
Because, you know, we
see that a lot of challenges
00:23:59.58\00:24:02.40
against human rights today.
00:24:02.41\00:24:04.12
And of course, it will
affect Religious Freedom.
00:24:04.13\00:24:07.30
We're sailing on, and we
need to have some more programs
00:24:07.31\00:24:11.11
but when we were talking about
00:24:11.12\00:24:12.68
Punta Cana and
this upcoming event.
00:24:12.69\00:24:14.58
I think, that
would be good to for us
00:24:14.59\00:24:15.92
to watch a little video
that you've prepared that.
00:24:15.93\00:24:17.91
Gives a bit of idea what's
going. So let's take a break.
00:24:17.92\00:24:20.61
We can watch it and our
viewers can see this too.
00:24:21.02\00:24:23.22
The world's foremost voices
00:24:23.23\00:24:25.02
in championing Religious Freedom
00:24:25.03\00:24:26.56
will gather in Punta
Cana, Dominican Republic
00:24:26.57\00:24:28.91
on April 2012 for the
7th IRLA world Congress.
00:24:28.92\00:24:33.26
They'll explore
the secular challenges
00:24:33.27\00:24:35.35
to the expression
of religious faith.
00:24:35.36\00:24:37.64
If you have a
passion for Religious Freedom
00:24:37.65\00:24:39.83
you would want to
participate in one of world's
00:24:39.84\00:24:41.95
most informative
conventions on the subject.
00:24:41.96\00:24:44.28
Scholars and advocates
whose carriers are dedicated
00:24:44.29\00:24:47.21
to seeking religious
harmony in the modern society
00:24:47.22\00:24:50.03
or share there
research and discuss with you.
00:24:50.04\00:24:52.04
How to make the world
a more peaceful place?
00:24:52.05\00:24:54.86
Space is limited so
register now at www.irla.org.
00:24:54.87\00:25:01.11
Please join us, for
this unique opportunity
00:25:01.12\00:25:04.24
to meet religious
and political leaders
00:25:04.25\00:25:06.67
from around the world.
00:25:06.68\00:25:08.74
Join us, to show you love,
00:25:08.75\00:25:11.21
Religious
Freedom and stand for it.
00:25:11.22\00:25:14.30
I'm looking
forward to welcoming you
00:25:14.31\00:25:16.61
to the Dominican
Republic in April 2012.
00:25:16.62\00:25:20.10
Well, that was an
interesting presentation, John.
00:25:20.11\00:25:22.63
I can tell it's
going to be a great time.
00:25:22.64\00:25:24.30
Not just beach time.
00:25:24.31\00:25:25.72
Although anybody
saying that will think,
00:25:25.73\00:25:27.03
man those beaches look good.
00:25:27.04\00:25:28.66
I know there's gonna
be some serious lectures.
00:25:28.67\00:25:30.57
And some of them I'm sure
00:25:30.58\00:25:31.66
will find there
way in to few days.
00:25:31.67\00:25:33.42
I think we're expecting
more than 600 participants,
00:25:33.43\00:25:36.91
maybe 800 and it means
that that will be the largest
00:25:36.92\00:25:40.34
congress on Religious
Freedom during the era.
00:25:40.35\00:25:43.02
It will be a world event not
just for us, the world event.
00:25:43.03\00:25:46.41
Well now I'm
planning on being there
00:25:46.42\00:25:48.04
and I know some of our
00:25:48.05\00:25:49.29
Religious Liberty
leaders from North America.
00:25:49.30\00:25:51.10
We're hoping for a couple
of hundred from North America.
00:25:51.11\00:25:54.10
Yeah. Of course they can visit
our website where they'll see
00:25:54.11\00:25:56.78
all the information www.irla.org
00:25:56.79\00:26:04.56
Very good, well thanks of
being a guest on this program
00:26:04.57\00:26:08.07
and you know, what do you
want to say in conclusion.
00:26:08.08\00:26:10.18
To sum up the work of the IRLA
00:26:10.19\00:26:12.38
Sometime people ask,
why are you organizing
00:26:12.39\00:26:15.70
such event like
symposium congresses and so on,
00:26:15.71\00:26:19.77
to promote Religious Freedom.
00:26:19.78\00:26:21.41
You know, let things
doing and even we're persecuted
00:26:21.42\00:26:25.76
we will be persecuted and maybe
00:26:25.77\00:26:27.43
Jesus will come earlier.
00:26:27.44\00:26:29.30
You know, that's
not the way of thinking.
00:26:29.31\00:26:31.10
I think we're promoting
defending Religious Freedom
00:26:31.11\00:26:33.92
because it's a
prophetic mission,
00:26:33.93\00:26:35.58
because it's a gift from God.
00:26:35.59\00:26:37.78
And we want to to say
that this gift is for everyone,
00:26:37.79\00:26:41.58
everyone along
world and when we're doing
00:26:41.59\00:26:44.12
that we're Zion of
the kingdom of God.
00:26:44.13\00:26:46.36
Defending Religious
Liberty is a little bit more
00:26:48.10\00:26:51.85
than just of good articles
in a magazine like Liberty.
00:26:51.86\00:26:55.47
And I'm the Editor of
Liberty, so believe me,
00:26:55.48\00:26:57.36
I think that's quite important.
00:26:57.37\00:26:59.36
It's also a little
bit more than defending
00:26:59.37\00:27:02.47
someone in a court of
law as important as that is.
00:27:02.48\00:27:06.21
Defending Religious
Liberty is even more important
00:27:06.22\00:27:09.78
than speaking out
in your community.
00:27:09.79\00:27:12.35
Defending Religious
Liberty goes way back.
00:27:12.36\00:27:15.95
I can think of Paul standing
before Felix and Agrippa
00:27:15.96\00:27:19.64
and ultimately Caesar.
00:27:19.65\00:27:21.34
I think of
Luther standing before
00:27:21.35\00:27:23.49
the Emperor at the Diet of Worms
00:27:23.50\00:27:25.81
and defending his actions
as a representative of Christ
00:27:25.82\00:27:29.97
and reformer of the true gospel.
00:27:29.98\00:27:30.97
But I also thank today,
the people like Dr. John Graz
00:27:32.55\00:27:36.63
and many others who're traveling
00:27:36.64\00:27:38.39
the world speaking
out for Religious Liberty
00:27:38.40\00:27:41.67
and the principles of
truth that they know so dear.
00:27:41.68\00:27:44.70
It means sometimes speaking
to other religious leaders,
00:27:44.71\00:27:47.46
it means speaking
to Heads of States.
00:27:47.47\00:27:49.99
Means speaking to
those who're affected by
00:27:50.00\00:27:53.12
a lack of Religious
Freedom but always it means
00:27:53.13\00:27:56.41
standing tall and true
for a faith that is wroth
00:27:56.42\00:27:59.77
defending and worth
speaking out for, vigorously.
00:27:59.78\00:28:02.56
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:28:04.18\00:28:06.85