Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the
program that discusses
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and presents up-to-date
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and relevant
religious liberty information.
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My name is Lincoln Steed
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and I'm the editor
of Liberty Magazine.
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I'm Michael Peabody,
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I'm the
Government Affairs Director
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for the Pacific Union Conference
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of Seventh-Day Adventist.
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Well, Michael, how about we deal
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with a really interesting topic
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that has become very
divisive in the community?
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You know, there is no question
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that our society is in flux.
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Many of the moral norms,
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the mores of
society are shifting
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and changing in ways that,
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certainly as a
Christian, I find startling.
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And one of the most starlings'
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is the emergence of
this whole gay culture
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and the gay rights agenda.
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That would be troubling enough
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from a faith perspective,
but with these new found rights
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and prerogatives
given to this group,
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we're finding more
and more that it comes
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in conflict with
religious liberty.
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Do you think that,
how can we deal with this?
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What-- how do we deal
with this new dynamic?
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How much control does
the church need to have
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over in affair of the heart?
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Well, I think, we could
take that the wrong direction,
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these are not, we shouldn't--
we don't have to dignify
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this is an affair
of the heart per se.
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This is a choice that people
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that don't
subscribe the religious views
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have taken with their lives.
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Perhaps, from my
faith perspective,
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this is aberrant,
this is ill-advised,
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ultimately destructive.
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But the civil society
is more and more granting
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certain
prerogatives and rights to them.
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And in exercising
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and sometimes
advancing those rights,
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clearly they're restricting
my religious freedom.
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Initially I think to
speak to that, my right,
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my obligation
indeed as a Christian
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to say to someone
in their lifestyle,
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this is wrong, it's destructive,
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it's immoral and so on.
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More and more that
itself is actually illegal.
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Then in exercising
their new found prerogatives,
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they sometimes are restricting
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the ability of
churches to employ,
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to interact with society in ways
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that are presenting its message.
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Well, several issues there,
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I mean, one of
them is obviously,
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should churches be
required to recognize gay unions
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or to honor them or to
otherwise give them benefits
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that the stay requires?
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A second issue is whether or not
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you're able to
speak about issues,
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involving other people's
activities that are legal
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but that you
have objection to it,
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I mean, I can
think of other issues
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such as alcohol
abuse or using tobacco that
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you could speak about and--
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Well, thankfully
still in the United States,
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you can speak about this,
we're speaking about it now.
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But, I think in Canada,
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they are on the
edge of a situation
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where you can't speak freely.
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On a previous program
of the Liberty Insider,
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I mentioned that a
Canadian judge had said,
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given his opinion, in
advance of an actual case
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that just to repeat a certain
Bible text on this lifestyle
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is hate speech
and is not allowed,
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it's a civil offense.
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Well, you know, homosexuality
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and the whole gay
rights movement is a very hard,
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but an issue for a lot people.
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It's an issue that
people take very personally
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and it's an issue that
they've strong opinions on.
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And, you know,
for our government
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to restrict a Christian minister
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from presenting the Bible,
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presenting the Biblical
views on it is, is wrong.
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We've just run a
story in Liberty Magazine,
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I think it was from, one
of the Scandinavian countries
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where a Christian
minister was imprisoned briefly
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for speaking out
against homosexuality,
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it was seen as a crime.
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You know, that's not
just a difference of opinion,
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there's a criminalization
of Christian witness
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that we-what if that
comes to this country,
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to the United
States at some point?
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Well,
unfortunately, a lot of times
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when we say things we
have opinions that will,
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you know, offend other people.
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And we've talked about
it in earlier programs,
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you know, situations
where Muslims have been
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offended by a
cartoon that was shown.
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Or Christians who have been
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offended by elements in movies
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and different things and
we need to be careful to,
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you know, keep
those things in mind
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when we're talking.
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Now, I know in
many, over the years
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I have taken many sermons
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based on those
first Chapter of Luke,
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where Peter and John,
but not of Luke in fact.
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Well, Peter and John
stood up in the temple
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and challenged
the authorities there
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saying that they had to
speak about what they'd seen
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and what they
knew as Christians,
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new found followers of Christ
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and it didn't matter
what the authorities said
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they were going to do it.
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I do believe that in
principle, we need to say
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what we're called say
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as a matter of
faith, regardless.
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But of course there's a dynamic,
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we shouldn't set ourselves up
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to the civil
disobedience just reflexly.
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We're to be law
abiding and I think
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Christians have a
chapter from the Bible
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and other people of
faith, logic, social,
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the logic of their
social context requires
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that they don't
challenge civil laws.
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But at some point, my
point is, at some point,
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you've to be true to your faith,
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you may need to
continue in a certain practice
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regardless of the
legal consequence.
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You take the
consequence, you accept that
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as the prize of
speaking as you're called to.
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All right, speaking solely
in the realm of free speech
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and freedom of, of the
right to say that type of things
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or expanding beyond that.
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I think it goes
way beyond that and,
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you know, we need to be careful.
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We've often condemned
the terrorists as cowards
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I don't think
that really applies.
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These are people that
misguidedly have applied
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an extreme form
of their religion
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to the point they're
willing to die for it.
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I would like to think
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that for my faith
that I find in the Bible,
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which is not of
that of the malice
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that we see in
radical Islamic terrorism.
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But my faith also
calls me to be so committed
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that if necessary
I would die for it.
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Regardless of the inhibition,
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where that's legal
or societal or whatever.
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There's clearly a distinction
that I've tried to make
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on this program before
between being willing to die
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for your faith and
being willing to kill for it.
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I don't think there
is a legitimate religion
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on the face of the earth
that could ask you to kill,
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I mean, any
religion that asks you
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to kill for your
faith is satanic in my view,
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it's not right.
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But I have to admire
someone who's so committed to it
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that they will take whatever
penalty is applied to them
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in speaking out.
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And again in the United States,
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particularly where
we have a constitution
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that purposely
has kept the state
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out of religious issues.
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We need to be very
careful to allow people
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to express their
faith in an untroubled way
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and we need to somehow
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untangle this
developing conflict
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between a new found social norm
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that the people of
Christian faith find offensive.
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Not just Christians,
we know the Muslims find
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the whole
homosexual lifestyle offensive.
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And why shouldn't we be
allowed to speak of our,
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perhaps distaste
for the lifestyle,
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even though as
fellow created beings
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and fellow human
beings in the society,
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we should be
charitable to people.
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No one, no religion,
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I think should call
its followers to be abusive
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and derogatory to other people.
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But we, I think
we have a moral right
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to speak to a situation
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even if that
person finds defensive.
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Oh, obviously we could,
we could speak about an issue
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such as homosexuality,
homosexual marriage.
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And I think, you
know, everybody has a right
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to express their
opinion on that issue
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and I don't really know
what immediate threat there is
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to that type of
speech beyond the,
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you know, the situations
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you described in
Canada and elsewhere.
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Well, I think,
we're the, there's a law
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you've probably seen
some, some, exploratory attempts
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to legislate in a
way that it would inhibit
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the rights of people of faith
to question this lifestyle.
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Certainly, churches are being,
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as attempts to restrict them
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and they're hiring
and firing within their,
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their not on either churches,
but church run institutions.
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So there's legal
pratfalls already to following
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through on a belief
system from a church
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and by extension as believers.
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Meanwhile in the churches,
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it's a situation where
it's people who are janitors
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or people who aren't directly
involved in the ministry
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and obviously the church still
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has a reason to stand up
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and say, hey, these
people are disagreeing
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with our stand on an issue.
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Let's take it a
little bit further,
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not just a sexual orientation,
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but as far as
whether we can hold a view
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that society on
whatever norms it's accepted,
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finds these objectionable.
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In my homeland of
Australia, not too long ago,
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they'd passed as did England.
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Some legislation that restricts
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religious hate speech.
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And I think it's
a natural connection
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because some people think
that a Christian speaking out
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against a homosexual lifestyle,
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that's hate speech.
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Well, I think it's
how it's spoken not
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what it inherently
holds if especially,
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if I hold it as truth.
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Now this, is
this like hate speech
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that goes in
connection with a crime
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that's being committed-- No.
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That's hate speech along.
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This is where, really
where I in the past had deferred
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from hate crime legislation,
it seems to me that crimes,
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violence, and anti-social
acts have always had a component
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where, where seeing the defeat
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was done with malice,
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that there is an
intent to cause harm.
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That there's a
harsher punishment
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than if it was
inadvertently done,
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obviously manslaughter if
you kill someone accidentally.
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But these new laws
criminalized the speech
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that does not have to evidence.
00:10:20.77\00:10:23.39
That doesn't
have to be incitement
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to violence that
follows, just criminal speech.
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And there was a case
recently where two protestant
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evangelists were
presenting the Quran,
00:10:31.23\00:10:34.17
presenting in a
Christian evangelistic context
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quotes from the Quran
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and quotes from
the Bible parallel.
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Obviously showing
from their perspective
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the error in the Quran.
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And during the meeting,
00:10:45.49\00:10:48.14
a Muslim rose up
and challenged them
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and said that he felt offended.
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Well, that went to court
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and the judge
convicted both of them
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and I don't know if
anyone served time on it,
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but there was a judgment
of a prison term several years
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and the judge said, it
didn't matter, he said,
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if what they said was
true or not is irrelevant.
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What was important was
that there was offense taken.
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You know, in the
U.S. there's a distinction
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between types of speech
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and not every type of
speech is permissible.
00:11:18.73\00:11:21.37
For instance, false
advertising is impermissible.
00:11:21.38\00:11:24.53
You can't yell or
fight in a crowded theater,
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that's a classic example.
00:11:26.32\00:11:28.29
Threatening somebody's
life is not permissible.
00:11:28.30\00:11:30.81
So what is the
difference between that
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and the types of hate
speech you're describing--
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Little bit new to
that false advertising.
00:11:33.49\00:11:35.50
Why, if I induce you
to buy a car and I say,
00:11:35.51\00:11:39.08
it's got, its
owners and only has one
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and that's false advertising--
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No factuality, yeah I'm
just, we live in a society where
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I think false elements are
held after us all the time,
00:11:45.77\00:11:48.31
false expectations.
00:11:48.32\00:11:49.64
But obviously that's the fact.
00:11:49.65\00:11:52.88
But what we've
seen in Australia,
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what I just quoted and
particularly in England,
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where they're facing very real
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threat of Islamic fundamentalism
00:11:59.15\00:12:03.01
as well as another
fanatical religious expression.
00:12:03.02\00:12:05.93
There's an attempt to
criminalize incendiary
00:12:05.94\00:12:08.34
religious speech for what it is.
00:12:08.35\00:12:11.65
Believing, there's a
belief by the legislators
00:12:11.66\00:12:13.53
if they inhibit the
speech, then it won't go further
00:12:13.54\00:12:16.33
to the violence in other areas,
00:12:16.34\00:12:19.11
but you know,
particularly terrorist activity.
00:12:19.12\00:12:21.25
Well, it's hard to
change your heart through law.
00:12:21.26\00:12:24.36
To make a law that
makes a person change the way
00:12:24.37\00:12:26.53
they think doesn't
necessarily follow.
00:12:26.54\00:12:30.30
I guess, you know,
00:12:30.31\00:12:31.40
one affect of the
hate speech legislation,
00:12:31.41\00:12:34.26
it's a legislation would be that
00:12:34.27\00:12:35.60
it would allow people not to--
00:12:35.61\00:12:39.51
I think the point
is very well of that,
00:12:39.52\00:12:41.94
you cannot change the heart.
00:12:41.95\00:12:43.97
And like so much in our
Religious Liberty discussion,
00:12:43.98\00:12:46.51
it comes back to the
issue of how the state relates
00:12:46.52\00:12:50.34
to the conscious
stance of the individual.
00:12:50.35\00:12:53.99
One-hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:13:01.94\00:13:05.93
much less publish a magazine.
00:13:05.94\00:13:07.84
But this year Liberty,
00:13:07.85\00:13:09.73
the Seventh-Day Adventist
voice of religious freedom,
00:13:09.74\00:13:12.44
celebrates one hundred years
of doing what it does best,
00:13:12.45\00:13:16.12
collecting,
analyzing, and reporting
00:13:16.13\00:13:18.72
the ebb and flow of religious
expression around the world.
00:13:18.73\00:13:22.32
Issue after issue.
00:13:22.33\00:13:24.07
Liberty has taken on
the tough assignments,
00:13:24.08\00:13:26.48
tracking down
threats to religious freedom
00:13:26.49\00:13:28.46
and exposing the
work of the devil
00:13:28.47\00:13:30.06
in every corner of the globe.
00:13:30.07\00:13:32.30
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:32.31\00:13:35.01
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom issues
00:13:35.02\00:13:37.70
sequestered within the
church community itself
00:13:37.71\00:13:40.03
have been clearly
and honestly exposed.
00:13:40.04\00:13:42.95
Liberty exists for one purpose,
00:13:42.96\00:13:45.32
to help God's
people maintain that
00:13:45.33\00:13:47.57
all the important
separation of Church and State,
00:13:47.58\00:13:50.49
while recognizing the dangers
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:50.50\00:13:54.47
During the past century,
00:13:54.48\00:13:55.67
Liberty has experienced
challenges of its own,
00:13:55.68\00:13:58.27
but it remains on the job.
00:13:58.28\00:14:00.57
Thanks to the
inspired leadership
00:14:00.58\00:14:02.17
of a long line of
dedicated Adventist editors,
00:14:02.18\00:14:04.90
three of whom represent almost
00:14:04.91\00:14:06.17
half of the
publications' existence
00:14:06.18\00:14:08.29
and the
foresight of a little woman
00:14:08.30\00:14:10.31
from New England.
00:14:10.32\00:14:11.63
One hundred years of struggle,
00:14:11.64\00:14:13.71
one hundred years of victories,
00:14:13.72\00:14:16.01
religious freedom isn't
just about political machines
00:14:16.02\00:14:18.93
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:18.94\00:14:20.72
It's about people,
fighting for the right
00:14:20.73\00:14:23.66
to serve the God
they love as their hearts
00:14:23.67\00:14:26.48
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:26.49\00:14:28.94
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:14:28.95\00:14:30.97
of Seventh-Day
Adventists everywhere.
00:14:30.98\00:14:33.39
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work
00:14:33.40\00:14:35.66
of providing timely information,
00:14:35.67\00:14:37.43
spirit filled inspiration,
00:14:37.44\00:14:39.12
and heaven sent
encouragement to all
00:14:39.13\00:14:41.52
who long to live and
work in a world bound together
00:14:41.53\00:14:45.60
by the God ordained
bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:45.61\00:14:49.61
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:14:59.84\00:15:03.22
This part of the program,
00:15:03.23\00:15:04.80
I would like to talk
about a very interesting
00:15:04.81\00:15:08.13
and divisive book and now
film, "The Da Vinci Code."
00:15:08.14\00:15:13.20
I think there's a religious
liberty connection here
00:15:13.21\00:15:15.29
because we're finding
someone's very private,
00:15:15.30\00:15:18.98
I believe erroneous
presentation of religion
00:15:18.99\00:15:23.12
and an attack on religion
00:15:23.13\00:15:24.91
is creating great
controversy in society
00:15:24.92\00:15:26.96
and how we're
going to relate to that.
00:15:26.97\00:15:28.42
You know, what is
The Da Vinci Code?
00:15:28.43\00:15:30.63
Well, a book by,
it's a book by Dan Brown,
00:15:30.64\00:15:32.96
who attempts to link
Leonardo da Vinci's art work
00:15:32.97\00:15:36.65
with a theory that
Jesus actually got married
00:15:36.66\00:15:39.69
and was married
to Mary Magdalene
00:15:39.70\00:15:41.88
and had a baby.
00:15:41.89\00:15:44.04
You know, that's
such a preposterous claim
00:15:44.05\00:15:46.95
for anyone that's read the Bible
00:15:46.96\00:15:48.32
and had any passing
knowledge of history
00:15:48.33\00:15:52.86
and corroborating
evidence for the Biblical story,
00:15:52.87\00:15:55.13
but it's gaining
credence isn't it.
00:15:55.14\00:15:56.69
A lot of people who didn't know
00:15:56.70\00:15:58.35
any of the background of
their nominal Christianity
00:15:58.36\00:16:01.16
have read the
book, now seen the movie
00:16:01.17\00:16:03.71
and are at least swallowing
the basic assumptions,
00:16:03.72\00:16:07.87
some church leaders and, I know,
00:16:07.88\00:16:09.75
elements of the Catholic Church
00:16:09.76\00:16:10.96
were affronted by this.
00:16:10.97\00:16:12.95
There's been
demonstrations against it,
00:16:12.96\00:16:15.81
much debate and many
people are saying that,
00:16:15.82\00:16:18.52
you know, they
want the film and,
00:16:18.53\00:16:21.25
or the book suppressed.
00:16:21.26\00:16:23.13
That's one of those old
book banning situation. Yes.
00:16:23.14\00:16:25.57
You know, I know from,
00:16:25.58\00:16:26.88
you know, most people
understand the reflection,
00:16:26.89\00:16:28.66
but for a person
who is not a Christian
00:16:28.67\00:16:30.06
is not bounded in,
he's not, you know,
00:16:30.07\00:16:33.21
formed in the faith, I guess.
00:16:33.22\00:16:34.91
It's, it could actually,
00:16:34.92\00:16:36.81
you know, they could
read it and be dissuaded.
00:16:36.82\00:16:40.36
I remember years
ago reading a book
00:16:40.37\00:16:42.73
with the same sort of ideas
00:16:42.74\00:16:44.02
and of course these have
been around for a long time.
00:16:44.03\00:16:46.28
The idea that
decadents of Christ
00:16:46.29\00:16:49.91
joined the European
bloodline in France and so on.
00:16:49.92\00:16:52.69
You know, it was
interesting stuff to read it,
00:16:52.70\00:16:54.61
but I must
submit it as I read it
00:16:54.62\00:16:56.04
and then did
some of my checking.
00:16:56.05\00:16:57.41
It was obvious that
these were fantastical stories
00:16:57.42\00:16:59.66
that some of them came
up during the middle ages,
00:16:59.67\00:17:03.66
some of them were self-serving,
00:17:03.67\00:17:05.31
self-created legends.
00:17:05.32\00:17:07.55
Others derived from,
from extra biblical sources.
00:17:07.56\00:17:11.85
And it is
interesting to me that,
00:17:11.86\00:17:14.47
this didn't come out of nowhere
00:17:14.48\00:17:16.26
but in the last few
years we have seen a succession
00:17:16.27\00:17:18.87
of analysis and release of,
00:17:18.88\00:17:20.95
you know, the Gospel of Thomas
00:17:20.96\00:17:22.37
and this and that.
00:17:22.38\00:17:26.17
Non-canonical book
and they're all put up
00:17:26.18\00:17:28.07
as though these are facts.
00:17:28.08\00:17:30.47
Even the, I'm trying
to think of the group,
00:17:30.48\00:17:34.78
what are the, Gnostics,
that was the, you know,
00:17:34.79\00:17:38.15
the great heresy
of early Christianity.
00:17:38.16\00:17:40.70
This is being put
out by the straight faces
00:17:40.71\00:17:42.69
this is a legitimate
alternative to Christianity.
00:17:42.70\00:17:45.79
It was the great heresy,
00:17:45.80\00:17:47.78
seen as such in the
early Christian church
00:17:47.79\00:17:50.14
whereby pure paganism,
00:17:50.15\00:17:52.20
an alternate
view of the universe,
00:17:52.21\00:17:53.67
if you like, may great--
00:17:53.68\00:17:56.65
or great inroads
into Christianity
00:17:56.66\00:17:58.21
but it was fought off.
00:17:58.22\00:18:00.17
It was basically
dualism, the idea that
00:18:00.18\00:18:03.05
there's a good
God and a bad God.
00:18:03.06\00:18:04.68
Jesus is the God of
Spirit and the Creator
00:18:04.69\00:18:09.17
God is somehow
evil, fallen, vindictive
00:18:09.18\00:18:12.97
God of the Old Testament.
00:18:12.98\00:18:14.17
He's the negative force
and here Jesus redeemed us
00:18:14.18\00:18:17.58
from the Father. That
derives from Gnosticism.
00:18:17.59\00:18:20.11
Well, there's a
common pattern background
00:18:20.12\00:18:21.80
are trying to use God's word
00:18:21.81\00:18:24.35
or trying to
use Biblical stories
00:18:24.36\00:18:25.78
and people believe it to
be true to support yourself.
00:18:25.79\00:18:28.52
The divine right of
kings was part of the outgrowth
00:18:28.53\00:18:30.50
for this whole movement
where the kings of France
00:18:30.51\00:18:33.23
and the kings of different
countries in Europe. Exactly.
00:18:33.24\00:18:35.19
Would say, not only
am I speaking for God,
00:18:35.20\00:18:37.71
but I've got a little bit
of his blood in my system.
00:18:37.72\00:18:40.28
And you've seized on something
00:18:40.29\00:18:42.38
that I really think is
what lies behind those legends.
00:18:42.39\00:18:46.63
You know, in the United States,
00:18:46.64\00:18:47.92
we basically got the I
think, the Latter day Saints,
00:18:47.93\00:18:53.72
is certainly, you
could logically say that
00:18:53.73\00:18:55.93
this was a way
to have a legitimacy
00:18:55.94\00:18:58.21
for a group in
the United States,
00:18:58.22\00:19:00.13
connect them back
to the Old Testament.
00:19:00.14\00:19:02.08
In England, it was
the British Israelites.
00:19:02.09\00:19:05.27
The Seventh-Day
Adventist Christians,
00:19:05.28\00:19:06.91
we do it, I hope legitimately,
00:19:06.92\00:19:09.06
looking in the New Testament
00:19:09.07\00:19:10.60
and we claim the
promise that we are is,
00:19:10.61\00:19:13.51
according to the
promise a spiritual Israel.
00:19:13.52\00:19:16.40
But there's always been this
desire to track yourself back to
00:19:16.41\00:19:20.30
either the promise,
the people of the promise
00:19:20.31\00:19:22.07
or in the case
of, the divine blood,
00:19:22.08\00:19:25.48
you know to the
extra blood line of Jesus.
00:19:25.49\00:19:27.22
Although it's a profanity
when you think about it.
00:19:27.23\00:19:29.59
And not a hint of it
in the New Testament.
00:19:29.60\00:19:32.51
But someone
said in a book review
00:19:32.52\00:19:36.84
or a movie review recently
00:19:36.85\00:19:38.33
where they're
commenting on a movie,
00:19:38.34\00:19:40.25
where they said, there was an
exploding crucifix, they said.
00:19:40.26\00:19:42.57
You know, other
religions have rioted for less.
00:19:42.58\00:19:45.16
There's no question
that the Da Vinci Code
00:19:45.17\00:19:48.36
is very offensive to
people of a settled faith.
00:19:48.37\00:19:51.29
I know that, for
instance Americans in large.
00:19:51.30\00:19:54.42
Some part somehow, they
actually banned the movie
00:19:54.43\00:19:56.13
for the single
theater they had there.
00:19:56.14\00:19:58.20
They said, "We're not
going to show this movie,"
00:19:58.21\00:20:00.64
because it offends Christianity.
00:20:00.65\00:20:02.78
That's interesting, now we knew
00:20:02.79\00:20:03.76
Americans some
more and I wouldn't have
00:20:03.77\00:20:05.58
thought that they
would have done that.
00:20:05.59\00:20:08.27
But yes, I don't think
00:20:08.28\00:20:09.51
we should ban this
sort of thing and in fact,
00:20:09.52\00:20:12.60
there's a certain irony
as I've thought this through.
00:20:12.61\00:20:15.04
Something that is
overtly dealing with religion,
00:20:15.05\00:20:17.39
even a twisted form
of religious expression
00:20:17.40\00:20:20.16
to ban that while we
allow the violent profanities
00:20:20.17\00:20:23.56
of most every movie
that's in the picture theaters,
00:20:23.57\00:20:27.06
you know, there's
something misguided there.
00:20:27.07\00:20:29.44
I think the law
should stay out of this,
00:20:29.45\00:20:31.62
this is a matter
of people of faith
00:20:31.63\00:20:33.73
projecting the correct view
of their faith to a society,
00:20:33.74\00:20:36.93
who's wondering
around and seizing on,
00:20:36.94\00:20:39.50
you know, the Bible says,
"Cunningly devised fables."
00:20:39.51\00:20:42.74
This is a
cunningly devised fable
00:20:42.75\00:20:44.45
that is
presenting some old heresies,
00:20:44.46\00:20:46.79
the Gnostic heresy is
presenting an old heresy,
00:20:46.80\00:20:50.49
that is gaining a lot of
creditability around the world.
00:20:50.50\00:20:53.42
And, you know, the female deity,
00:20:53.43\00:20:54.94
the earth goddess, and so on,
00:20:54.95\00:20:58.26
which curiously the
confined remnants of that
00:20:58.27\00:21:00.94
even in modern
day Roman Catholicism.
00:21:00.95\00:21:03.75
Well, the story itself
is really fairly erroneous,
00:21:03.76\00:21:06.48
but Dan Brown
wants to tell a story
00:21:06.49\00:21:08.74
and I think he has a
right to do so. Sure.
00:21:08.75\00:21:10.85
And so we're in
the funny position
00:21:10.86\00:21:12.43
on this program,
00:21:12.44\00:21:13.85
dealing with religious liberty
00:21:13.86\00:21:15.31
that we find offense at this.
00:21:15.32\00:21:17.68
It's clearly an attack
on settled religious truths
00:21:17.69\00:21:22.07
and yet we have
to defend his right,
00:21:22.08\00:21:24.46
on anyone's right to
spread these, these theories.
00:21:24.47\00:21:27.80
And fortunately we
live in the nation,
00:21:27.81\00:21:30.11
the United States,
where people are free to say
00:21:30.12\00:21:32.86
what they want to about religion
00:21:32.87\00:21:34.05
and we're free to respond.
00:21:34.06\00:21:35.70
I know, that
there are a lot of books
00:21:35.71\00:21:36.86
and pamphlets coming
out of about the movie
00:21:36.87\00:21:39.15
and telling the
truth about those of issues
00:21:39.16\00:21:40.88
and I hope people would take
00:21:40.89\00:21:41.86
the opportunity to review them.
00:21:41.87\00:21:43.29
Now this is something
that, it time with me again,
00:21:43.30\00:21:47.31
going back to
another program that we did,
00:21:47.32\00:21:48.97
we were talking about the
Ten Commandments Commission,
00:21:48.98\00:21:52.18
which had a sort of
a legislative agenda
00:21:52.19\00:21:54.65
for the ten commandments.
00:21:54.66\00:21:55.63
But I know members of our church
00:21:55.64\00:21:57.31
the Seventh-Day Adventist
Church took the opportunity,
00:21:57.32\00:22:00.22
full advantage
of the opportunity
00:22:00.23\00:22:01.67
to hand out books
on the Ten Commandments
00:22:01.68\00:22:05.64
in Washington, and other places
00:22:05.65\00:22:07.41
taking
advantage of the interest.
00:22:07.42\00:22:09.25
And I think people of
faith, this is their opportunity
00:22:09.26\00:22:12.30
to spread the
truth at this time.
00:22:12.31\00:22:14.66
Take advantage of it.
00:22:14.67\00:22:16.34
And, you know,
the Bible also says,
00:22:16.35\00:22:18.68
if, you know, if
God's in something really
00:22:18.69\00:22:21.14
nothing can be done against it,
00:22:21.15\00:22:22.17
that the truth rule
out, if we're faithful
00:22:22.18\00:22:25.14
and if we counter
these negative influences.
00:22:25.15\00:22:27.13
And we shouldn't be afraid
of era just because it exists.
00:22:27.14\00:22:31.71
We can't restrict it civilly
00:22:31.72\00:22:34.36
and I don't think God is happy
with people being convinced
00:22:34.37\00:22:37.40
against their will, if you like.
00:22:37.41\00:22:38.64
Oh, civil restriction
ought to work like that,
00:22:38.65\00:22:41.73
would really show to people
who may not be convinced yet.
00:22:41.74\00:22:45.12
That we don't have an argument,
00:22:45.13\00:22:46.75
that we don't any
way to counteract that
00:22:46.76\00:22:48.21
that's too strong for us
00:22:48.22\00:22:49.31
and we just need to
get rid of it all together.
00:22:49.32\00:22:51.51
But there is an irony
that I see in our society,
00:22:51.52\00:22:56.00
on an issue like this,
00:22:56.01\00:22:57.55
something that
is so palpably false
00:22:57.56\00:23:00.16
and more than false,
00:23:00.17\00:23:01.38
it's an
inconsistent line of logic,
00:23:01.39\00:23:03.88
I mean, there are so
many holes in the argument,
00:23:03.89\00:23:06.72
that anybody that had
read in the background
00:23:06.73\00:23:09.12
of this would see
it as an entertainment
00:23:09.13\00:23:11.48
and nothing more.
00:23:11.49\00:23:12.52
And it's catching
on in our society.
00:23:12.53\00:23:14.64
I think at
signals, bad days ahead,
00:23:14.65\00:23:18.45
both for faith in this country
00:23:18.46\00:23:20.82
where we're nominally Christian.
00:23:20.83\00:23:22.51
But how many
Christians know their Bible?
00:23:22.52\00:23:25.24
How many
Christians know the logical,
00:23:25.25\00:23:28.34
the doctrinal, the historic
backdrop to their faith?
00:23:28.35\00:23:31.41
And of course, how many
Christians are living up to it,
00:23:31.42\00:23:33.28
but that's a
matter of personal faith.
00:23:33.29\00:23:35.26
And then in a country
where we have values of freedom,
00:23:35.27\00:23:38.46
constitutional
protections, how many of us know
00:23:38.47\00:23:41.55
what's written there,
what our rights really are.
00:23:41.56\00:23:43.50
There's sort of a mythology.
00:23:43.51\00:23:45.12
Now this is a free country,
people say it all the time,
00:23:45.13\00:23:48.09
but I'm not sure
they know what basis
00:23:48.10\00:23:49.90
their freedom is settled down.
00:23:49.91\00:23:52.12
You know, may
be it's the freedom
00:23:52.13\00:23:53.10
to go to the
football game, that's it--
00:23:53.11\00:23:55.29
That's a fascinating
idea, because there are a lot of
00:23:55.30\00:23:57.67
revisionists history
books out there, they say,
00:23:57.68\00:23:59.85
here's what really happen
00:23:59.86\00:24:00.83
to the found in our
country, but that's a myth.
00:24:00.84\00:24:03.72
You know, they're saying that,
00:24:03.73\00:24:05.24
America is founded to
be strictly Christian,
00:24:05.25\00:24:07.58
to exclusion of other religion
00:24:07.59\00:24:08.92
so it's majoritarian,
majority Christian.
00:24:08.93\00:24:11.57
And that other religion were
supposed to get second place.
00:24:11.58\00:24:14.87
There are myths like
that that are out there,
00:24:14.88\00:24:16.67
that I think that are
actually more dangerous
00:24:16.68\00:24:18.64
in the Da Vinci Code.
00:24:18.65\00:24:20.03
Now of course, myth-making
is a very human activity,
00:24:20.04\00:24:24.85
you know, Parson
Weems in the United States
00:24:24.86\00:24:28.24
knowingly constructed mythical
histories of George Washington
00:24:28.25\00:24:32.09
and the cherry
tree and all the rest.
00:24:32.10\00:24:33.57
And, you know,
that sort of mis-making
00:24:33.58\00:24:35.91
is a little bit humorous.
00:24:35.92\00:24:38.27
It's not necessarily dangerous,
00:24:38.28\00:24:40.17
but we should recognize that
this disperses always exist.
00:24:40.18\00:24:43.57
And we shouldn't let
it take over from fact.
00:24:43.58\00:24:46.28
And there's not a
question as we discuss
00:24:46.29\00:24:47.85
religious liberty a
lot of the time settled
00:24:47.86\00:24:50.83
historical fact and
realities of the constitution
00:24:50.84\00:24:53.70
as sort of just swept
away by a self-serving myth.
00:24:53.71\00:24:57.72
And I think we
need to encourage people
00:24:57.73\00:24:59.30
to go back to the facts
and figures of their faith,
00:24:59.31\00:25:02.51
of their country, and of history
00:25:02.52\00:25:04.58
and look at the
logical situation.
00:25:04.59\00:25:07.31
There is a, you know,
clear line of history,
00:25:07.32\00:25:09.62
clear line of needing to go back
00:25:09.63\00:25:11.46
and we're viewing
where we came from,
00:25:11.47\00:25:13.74
how we arrived
where we are in history.
00:25:13.75\00:25:16.01
And there's an
accurate way to do that,
00:25:16.02\00:25:18.31
there's an
inaccurate way to that.
00:25:18.32\00:25:20.65
It's important for people
actually to become familiar
00:25:20.66\00:25:22.46
with their original
documents, original sources.
00:25:22.47\00:25:25.03
So do you, I apply
the devil's advocate now,
00:25:25.04\00:25:28.24
do you think, then
we can hope the issue
00:25:28.25\00:25:30.44
along by making sure
that in the public schools,
00:25:30.45\00:25:33.32
government schools, that
the young people are studying
00:25:33.33\00:25:35.99
not only history,
but they study the Bible,
00:25:36.00\00:25:38.42
they study
doctrine, Biblical doctrine.
00:25:38.43\00:25:40.23
Do you think we would
be a more faithful nation,
00:25:40.24\00:25:43.52
if we did that?
00:25:43.53\00:25:44.50
Well, I think people need
to study Biblical doctrine
00:25:44.51\00:25:46.30
and I think we
need to study the Bible
00:25:46.31\00:25:47.77
and I think all the students
00:25:47.78\00:25:48.75
in the public
schools need to do that.
00:25:48.76\00:25:50.22
But not in the
school-- Not in the schools--
00:25:50.23\00:25:51.82
Not the government control.
00:25:51.83\00:25:53.10
Well, you know, with the other,
00:25:53.11\00:25:54.84
I just don't
trust the government
00:25:54.85\00:25:56.03
to teach the correct doctrine,
00:25:56.04\00:25:58.17
there's some many
things out floating around
00:25:58.18\00:25:59.82
and they, you know,
they haven't done a good job
00:25:59.83\00:26:01.65
of teaching some basic stuff
00:26:01.66\00:26:02.89
so why trust them with doctrine.
00:26:02.90\00:26:04.89
But at least on
the constitution,
00:26:04.90\00:26:07.56
I would, be full
hearty to allow them
00:26:07.57\00:26:10.58
to teach my doctrine.
00:26:10.59\00:26:12.66
What about someone that
doesn't believe my doctrine,
00:26:12.67\00:26:14.39
what if my doctrine were wrong?
00:26:14.40\00:26:15.85
I'm convinced that it's right,
00:26:15.86\00:26:18.04
but from the
other side of the fence,
00:26:18.05\00:26:19.33
they look at me
as mine is error.
00:26:19.34\00:26:20.76
So we don't want the government
00:26:20.77\00:26:21.92
to choose one or the other.
00:26:21.93\00:26:24.43
Religion is a
very personal thing
00:26:24.44\00:26:25.95
it strikes to the
heart, but facts are facts.
00:26:25.96\00:26:28.25
So it's important for
people to be able to go back,
00:26:28.26\00:26:30.04
see what the history
is, see what the facts are
00:26:30.05\00:26:32.48
and to learn
what's really going on
00:26:32.49\00:26:34.78
in the track of patterns.
00:26:34.79\00:26:36.58
Religious liberty is a
constantly evolving thing,
00:26:36.59\00:26:39.85
but there are a lot of people
00:26:39.86\00:26:40.83
who come back with
revisionist histories
00:26:40.84\00:26:42.68
that will change
what people believe.
00:26:42.69\00:26:44.99
It's important to
be, be rooted in facts.
00:26:45.00\00:26:46.90
Several years ago, I remember
00:26:49.87\00:26:51.41
sitting in a
private screening room
00:26:51.42\00:26:54.08
and watching an
advanced screening
00:26:54.09\00:26:57.12
of the Passion of the Christ,
00:26:57.13\00:26:59.03
was an experience
that I'll never forget.
00:26:59.04\00:27:01.65
There in front of us
and floor to sealing color
00:27:01.66\00:27:05.97
reality was the actual story
00:27:05.98\00:27:08.18
of the last few hours
of the life of Christ.
00:27:08.19\00:27:10.96
It was a compelling event
00:27:10.97\00:27:12.40
and practically
everybody in the room
00:27:12.41\00:27:14.90
was gossiping in agony
00:27:14.91\00:27:16.76
or sobbing
tears of consternation
00:27:16.77\00:27:20.15
at seeing the sufferings
that Christ went through.
00:27:20.16\00:27:23.25
It turned out when
that film was released,
00:27:23.26\00:27:25.82
but it did have the path to
challenge people's thinking,
00:27:25.83\00:27:30.47
thinking about the reality
00:27:30.48\00:27:32.57
of the sacrifice
in ministry of Christ.
00:27:32.58\00:27:35.47
I believe many people
were helped by that film.
00:27:35.48\00:27:37.89
Today, our world is convulsed
00:27:37.90\00:27:40.05
by discussion of
the Da Vinci Code,
00:27:40.06\00:27:42.42
which is compelling,
but compelling for error.
00:27:42.43\00:27:46.63
We need to allow room
00:27:46.64\00:27:47.94
in our society
for open discussion,
00:27:47.95\00:27:50.46
both of the
truth and of the error.
00:27:50.47\00:27:53.00
And allow people to
make up their own minds
00:27:53.01\00:27:55.44
and other--let the
drama of the situation
00:27:55.45\00:27:58.83
inflame us into our position,
truths will out always.
00:27:58.84\00:28:03.19
This is Lincoln
Steed, for Liberty Insider.
00:28:05.54\00:28:08.97