Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program bringing you
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the very latest
information and discussion
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on religious liberty issues.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
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and I'm the Editor
of Liberty Magazine.
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My name is Michael Peabody.
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I'm the
Government Affairs Director
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for the Pacific Union Conference
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of Seventh-day Adventists.
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Welcome to the program, Michael,
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and thanks for being with us.
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for little bit about something
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that happen not
too long ago and caught
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a lot of peoples interest,
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the Ten Commandments Sunday
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billed as the first such event.
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What do you know about it,
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did it struck you as an
interesting development?
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Well, I was happy to
see that people are taking
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an interest in
the Ten Commandments.
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I know it's an issue
that Seventh-day Adventist
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have been
promoting for a long time.
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And so it was interesting
to see that people are actually
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starting to pay attention
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to what the Ten
Commandments actually say.
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I was a little bit
concerned though with the way
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that was being done in
terms of attempting to,
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to change public policy.
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Yes, and I think a lot
of people would support it,
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I know that some of my fellow
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Seventh-day
Adventists didn't realize
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that there was
maybe a bigger agenda
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than just reemphasizing
the Ten Commandments.
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You know, goodness knows
we're living in a society
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that's been corrupted by the
popular culture in many ways,
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not just TV
games and TV programs
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and all the entertainments
and secularity that's creeping.
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And all of that tends
to move nominally Christian
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population away from remembering
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the Ten Commandments
and God's requirements.
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But I think many people
answered easily to, yeah,
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let's put them up
there, not realizing
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what this implied.
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Absolutely, before I continue,
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I like to say that I like to see
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the Ten Commandments everywhere.
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I think they're an
important document, but--
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You don't live down South,
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I see them in Bible
texts plastered on the backs
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of trucks and
license plates and so on.
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You know, there is a
good tradition I think
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in United States of,
putting your religion out
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in a public way,
whether it's something
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on the front yard
or business cards.
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I know many
people have a Bible text
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or the Ten
Commandments or something.
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You know, we're
allowed to do that
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and I think as a
Christian or of any faith
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if you want to put your
holy writings out there, fine,
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that's a matter of sharing.
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Well, in
Sacramento, we have this guy
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with a big
truck, he parks in front
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of the state
capital and the truck
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has a Ten Commandments on them
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and he's there every
single day and he's protesting
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the fact that the
Sacramento capital doesn't have
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the Ten
Commandments inside the capital.
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Now we're getting to
a different issue right?
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Yeah, you can see them
on his truck and nobody
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is telling him
not to put them there.
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He might be
dangerously close to creating
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a public nuisance if
it's disruptive visual.
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But yeah, he's allowed
to do that, doesn't it?
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I mean, he's allowed to
have something in his own
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property as a
personal expression.
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But it's a little bit
more problematic, isn't it?
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if within a government building
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or by government policy
and by government edict,
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the commandments
or the Bhagwat Geeta,
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or the Qur'an is
plastered and presented.
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I think that
clearly is a separation
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of church and state problem.
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Yeah, we have two jurisdictions,
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we have the
jurisdiction of the state,
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and we have the
jurisdiction of God.
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The Ten Commandments
basically aren't even
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licensed in the United
States for the exception of two,
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which is Thou shall not steal
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and Thou shall not kill.
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And sometimes I'd say
well maybe another half
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which would be Thou
shall not commit perjury
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if thou art under oath.
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Right, a very, very
specific application.
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And you can make
a very good argument
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that these are sort
of universal aspects
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of human behavior
that certainly predate
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the biblical exposition
of the Ten Commandments,
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I think as a Bible
believing Christian,
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there's a good
chance that you can trace
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this back to the
prior knowledge of God.
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But they certainly
don't derive directly
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from the Ten Commandments
that came out of the Torah.
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Well, for any
society to function properly,
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you need to make
sure people aren't killing
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each other and that property
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rights are respected.
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But we need to be careful,
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Jesus spelled out
the Ten Commandments,
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I think in the fullest
meaning and if you hate
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someone you've
committed murder in your heart,
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you've broken the commandments.
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Much of our
capitalistic society which takes
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advantage in the name
of business of other people
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and may actually end
up quite literally killing
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them as a by product.
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I think it was held
to the highest stands
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of the Ten
Commandments, it wouldn't stand.
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So, you know, the
spiritual application
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of the Ten Commandments
is a totally different thing
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from just the
commercial transactions between
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human beings that
makeup civil society and to try
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to bring the Ten Commandments
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into that context as we
said in Liberty Magazine.
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I think is ultimately demeaning
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to the Ten
Commandments, corrupting
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to their original purpose.
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You know, as Christians we live
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within the jurisdiction of God
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and within the
jurisdiction of the state.
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And for us to give the authority
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for Ten Commandments
to the state, to enforce,
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really elements much
of our obligation to God.
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Right, so it is a
matter of authority
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and that's another
theme that we've tried to push
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in Liberty magazine,
recognizing what authority
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do we live under,
is it God or the state?
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We live under both.
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We live under both, but
God is a preeminent authority.
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But we shouldn't
substitute the state's
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authority thinking
that it's God's authority.
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Now back to this
Ten Commandment's Sunday
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which I think on one
level an admirable effort
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to reinstate an awareness
of the Ten Commandments
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and I know that
one of the organizers
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of this event is himself
a practicing orthodox Jew.
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So, of course,
he's worshiping on
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what the forth
commandment clearly lies up,
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the Seventh-day Sabbath.
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Something that many
Christian sort of ignored
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they don't even keep
that commandment as they claim
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to be
commandment keeping people.
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But I don't know about you,
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but I was troubled to
read on their own website
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what they were
trying to accomplish
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with this event.
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First of all, it was
sort of a half truth in saying
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that they were, they
were calling for action
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because activist
judges have been removing
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the Ten
Commandments from public places.
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Well, you know, I can
talk a little bit more
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about that and
we should, you know
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what's really going on there.
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But even allowing that statement
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is a half truth at best.
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Then it said,
you can join with us
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and what can you
do work toward passage
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of the Constitution
Restoration Act, what is this?
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Well, Lincoln, you
know, that's one of my heart
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button issues, the
Constitution Restoration Act
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essentially is designed to use
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the Article III powers
of the Congress to restrict
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the jurisdiction
of the federal court.
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And to essentially mean that,
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and essentially
make it impossible
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for federal judges
to hear cases involving
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freedom of religion or either
part of the First Amendment.
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While, as I remember
from reading on their website,
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the description of this,
they say this legislation
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would make it
under pain of impeachment
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or removal, make it forbidden
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for the judiciary,
federal judiciary to deal
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with matters of
prayer in the schools,
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public display of
the Ten Commandments
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indeed all the religious issues.
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One thing you have to remember
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is the federal
courts are there to protect
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the rights of minority.
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Because the majority
it's already being heard
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through the
legislature and through
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the executive branch.
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So minority
religions who have to appeal
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to the federal
courts in order to be heard
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would be completely cutoff.
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It basically doesn't
run against decisions
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that they promoted.
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Oh! I don't know about
you, but I think it will be
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the end of, the practical
end of religious pluralism.
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Absolutely. And
therefore the end of
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religious
freedom in this country.
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And further, I
have very extreme views,
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you know, I came from Australia,
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and I've studied
on the American system
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from when I was a
teenager on through.
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And I think it has
arguably the best system
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in the world at the moment.
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But it's only good
if it's adhered to,
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and the separation
of power, the judiciary,
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the legislative,
that's the Senate
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and the Congress.
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And the
Executive, the President.
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These were intended by
the founders to operate
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in attention, one's
a check on the other,
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to have, not to have untroubled,
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to have unbounded power.
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And clearly this will
remove on one of the most
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important
aspects of our freedom,
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religious liberty remove
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one-third the intended
checks of the government.
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That will easily,
especially when you have
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the executive and the
legislative in the same
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parties hands, easily lead to
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a restriction of
religious freedoms.
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And beyond that,
you have the issue
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of the consolidation
of executive power.
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When Congress gives
the Executive the ability
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to declare war
and to wage that war.
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The power, the
President is actually the zenith
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of its power according
to the Attorney General.
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It does probably the
more I think about it.
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You know, on one
level we're dealing
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with religious
liberty, you know,
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you can think religions here
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and state issues there.
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But as Alan Reinach,
your associate is pointed out,
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no writers in Ireland.
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And if civil rights
generally are under threat,
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you can guarantee
that religious liberty
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is very much impacted.
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And I think it's
dangerous for continued liberty,
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and this religious
liberty in this country.
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When we have a growing
imbalance between these
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three important aspects
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or primary
aspects of government.
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And the change
recently or the growth
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for prerogative
rather than power,
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let's just not say power.
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But the increased prerogatives
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of the executive don't
bode well for the continued
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operation of this
three part system.
00:10:06.50\00:10:10.16
Some severe
claims have been made
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that in a time of war
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and we're now by
public proclamation
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into a war that
will go a lifetime.
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So it's a permanent
state of being. Absolutely.
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And in this
permanent state of being,
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for the claim to be
made, that the executive power
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trumps all other
aspects of government.
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If you really follow it through,
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means the democracy is basically
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in it's twilight,
well we can't acknowledge
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that if we believe
religious liberty guaranteed
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under the constitution needs
to be worked out and argued
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for through the courts
and to the legislatures.
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If the whole system
is sort of trump now
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by an assumption of
power, we've got trouble
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for religious liberty.
00:10:46.22\00:10:47.37
And one of the key
issues is what will replace it.
00:10:47.38\00:10:50.11
What is the new
power that will emerge
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as a result of that,
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as a result of
that consolidation?
00:10:53.80\00:10:55.51
Well, one thing that, you know,
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I don't anyone to
overstate what I'm going
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to say but it's
worth remember historically
00:11:00.08\00:11:03.57
that Rome which
was a partial model
00:11:03.58\00:11:06.09
for the new American Republic,
00:11:06.10\00:11:07.78
I've often made the joke
00:11:07.79\00:11:08.89
that Washington is a exhibit A
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of those who had a
Greek or Roman fixation.
00:11:11.78\00:11:14.47
You know, the building
style as well as the Senate,
00:11:14.48\00:11:17.08
you know, words like that.
00:11:17.09\00:11:18.92
But in Rome, when they
had a national emergency,
00:11:18.93\00:11:23.56
the Senate would vote
to handover complete powers
00:11:23.57\00:11:28.71
to a ruler for a while,
they called him a dictator.
00:11:28.72\00:11:32.52
That's how the dict,
the term dictator came,
00:11:32.53\00:11:34.30
it wasn't someone
who suddenly rose up
00:11:34.31\00:11:36.62
and grabbed power,
it was given to him.
00:11:36.63\00:11:39.26
And we need to be
careful and we know where
00:11:39.27\00:11:40.97
Rome went, not immediately
but as soon, you know,
00:11:40.98\00:11:44.49
they had absolute dictators,
00:11:44.50\00:11:45.60
they had emperors who
believed they were God,
00:11:45.61\00:11:48.15
subverted religion to
the limit and of course
00:11:48.16\00:11:51.77
they later on
they took on a religion
00:11:51.78\00:11:53.56
and that was also
bad for Christianity
00:11:53.57\00:11:55.46
when this dictatorial power
was pushing religion by force.
00:11:55.47\00:12:00.81
No better than a
secular dictatorship.
00:12:00.82\00:12:02.97
But right now we have
people that are calling
00:12:02.98\00:12:04.71
for the consolidation of power,
00:12:04.72\00:12:06.00
they're saying
the federal courts
00:12:06.01\00:12:07.39
have to stay out of
the issues of religion.
00:12:07.40\00:12:09.58
They're really the
last passion of freedom
00:12:09.59\00:12:11.71
when it comes to that issue.
00:12:11.72\00:12:12.73
you know,
obviously we need to be
00:12:12.74\00:12:14.31
little sympathetic to
those who are religious,
00:12:14.32\00:12:18.11
fellow religionist that
the courts are not always
00:12:18.12\00:12:22.27
doing the right things.
00:12:22.28\00:12:23.65
Some judges, it's obviously,
00:12:23.66\00:12:25.89
have an overly
secular worldview.
00:12:25.90\00:12:28.23
But I don't think the
by enlarge there unduly
00:12:28.24\00:12:31.03
over applying or
misapplying the constitution.
00:12:31.04\00:12:33.84
They maybe becoming
from a secular bias.
00:12:33.85\00:12:36.28
But the end
result generally has been
00:12:36.29\00:12:38.46
careful to the constitution.
00:12:38.47\00:12:40.31
And this is what we
want to remind our viewers.
00:12:40.32\00:12:43.45
The constitution
is not wholly written,
00:12:43.46\00:12:45.38
but it's been a
good guide for American
00:12:45.39\00:12:47.39
freedom for many, many years.
00:12:47.40\00:12:49.60
And we need to keep
our attention fixed on
00:12:49.61\00:12:51.70
upholding that rule of law.
00:12:51.71\00:12:53.28
One hundred years, a
long time to do anything
00:13:01.84\00:13:05.62
much less publish a magazine.
00:13:05.63\00:13:07.32
But this year, Liberty,
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:07.33\00:13:10.59
voice of religious freedom,
00:13:10.60\00:13:12.08
celebrates 100 years of
doing what it does best.
00:13:12.09\00:13:15.76
Collecting,
analyzing and reporting
00:13:15.77\00:13:18.44
the ebb and flow of religious
00:13:18.45\00:13:19.96
expression around world.
00:13:19.97\00:13:22.04
Issue after
issue, Liberty has taken
00:13:22.05\00:13:24.73
on the tough assignments,
tracking down threats
00:13:24.74\00:13:27.28
to religious freedom
and exposing the work
00:13:27.29\00:13:29.05
of the devil in
every corner of the globe.
00:13:29.06\00:13:31.83
Governmental
interference, personal attacks,
00:13:31.84\00:13:34.69
corporate assaults,
even religious freedom
00:13:34.70\00:13:37.01
issues
sequestered within the Church
00:13:37.02\00:13:38.61
community itself
have been clearly
00:13:38.62\00:13:40.66
and honestly exposed.
00:13:40.67\00:13:42.71
Liberty exists for one purpose,
00:13:42.72\00:13:44.99
to help God's people maintain
00:13:45.00\00:13:47.00
that all important
separation of church and state,
00:13:47.01\00:13:50.09
while recognizing the dangers
00:13:50.10\00:13:51.89
inherent in such a struggle.
00:13:51.90\00:13:53.96
During the past
century, Liberty has experienced
00:13:53.97\00:13:56.63
challenges of its own,
but it remains on the job.
00:13:56.64\00:14:00.12
Thanks to the inspired
leadership of a long line
00:14:00.13\00:14:02.90
of dedicated Adventist editors,
00:14:02.91\00:14:04.65
three of whom
represent almost half
00:14:04.66\00:14:06.32
of the Publication's
existence and the foresight
00:14:06.33\00:14:08.99
of a little
woman from New England.
00:14:09.00\00:14:11.26
One hundred years of struggle,
00:14:11.27\00:14:13.29
one hundred years of victories.
00:14:13.30\00:14:15.69
Religious
freedom isn't just about
00:14:15.70\00:14:17.51
political machines
and cultural prejudices.
00:14:17.52\00:14:20.40
It's about people,
fighting for the right
00:14:20.41\00:14:23.31
to serve the God
they love, as their hearts
00:14:23.32\00:14:26.24
and the Holy Spirit dictate.
00:14:26.25\00:14:28.45
Thanks to the
prayers and generous support
00:14:28.46\00:14:30.70
of Seventh-Day
Adventists everywhere,
00:14:30.71\00:14:33.02
Liberty will continue
to accomplish its work
00:14:33.03\00:14:35.37
of providing timely information,
00:14:35.38\00:14:37.16
spirit-filled inspiration
00:14:37.17\00:14:38.73
and heaven sent encouragement
00:14:38.74\00:14:40.53
to all who long to live
00:14:40.54\00:14:42.64
and work in a
world bound together
00:14:42.65\00:14:45.41
by the God ordained
bonds of religious freedom.
00:14:45.42\00:14:49.55
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:14:58.78\00:15:01.29
Before the break
we were discussing
00:15:01.30\00:15:04.12
the Constitution Restoration Act
00:15:04.13\00:15:06.34
and the whole Ten
Commandments issue.
00:15:06.35\00:15:09.08
Where do think this is going?
00:15:09.09\00:15:11.45
Well it's hard to predict
exactly where it's going.
00:15:11.46\00:15:14.02
But I think what's going
to happen is we're going to,
00:15:14.03\00:15:15.78
if now, first of all the
Constitution Restoration Act
00:15:15.79\00:15:18.93
is not likely to
pass this to Congress.
00:15:18.94\00:15:20.97
But I think it's important
to pay attention to it,
00:15:20.98\00:15:22.93
because it shows
there is a attitude
00:15:22.94\00:15:25.41
that's actually
taken by a lot of people
00:15:25.42\00:15:27.17
that such a law is necessary
00:15:27.18\00:15:29.05
in order to preserve the
integrity of this nation.
00:15:29.06\00:15:31.38
Now what do you
think lies behind it,
00:15:31.39\00:15:33.37
because first it's
such a clear challenge
00:15:33.38\00:15:36.02
constitution and
to the American way,
00:15:36.03\00:15:40.97
the way things
were a generation ago,
00:15:40.98\00:15:43.86
and clearly they were
at the time of founding
00:15:43.87\00:15:45.94
of this country.
00:15:45.95\00:15:47.01
This is a new way
of looking at law,
00:15:47.02\00:15:49.06
is there
something new behind it?
00:15:49.07\00:15:51.18
Well, basically a
lot of people are saying
00:15:51.19\00:15:53.20
the time has
come in this nation,
00:15:53.21\00:15:54.74
where we've gone so
far in one direction.
00:15:54.75\00:15:57.60
That we've really
outgrown our democracy.
00:15:57.61\00:16:01.43
We don't have the capacity,
00:16:01.44\00:16:03.98
if we're not capable
of making moral decisions,
00:16:03.99\00:16:06.14
of making moral decisions.
00:16:06.15\00:16:07.12
if our court aren't capable
of making moral decisions.
00:16:07.13\00:16:08.42
We need to actually
take control of that
00:16:08.43\00:16:11.34
and the people who are saying
this have their own agenda,
00:16:11.35\00:16:14.19
which is basically this agenda.
00:16:14.20\00:16:15.17
Now there's been a lot of
talk about the culture war,
00:16:15.18\00:16:17.26
in the last 10, 20 years.
00:16:17.27\00:16:19.64
And I think it's
a very real thing,
00:16:19.65\00:16:21.64
there is a war
between opposing values,
00:16:21.65\00:16:25.29
the secularist,
more secularist value,
00:16:25.30\00:16:27.81
a more faith based value,
00:16:27.82\00:16:29.34
but you can even bring it
down in the United States.
00:16:29.35\00:16:31.98
I think to
something more specific,
00:16:31.99\00:16:33.47
a Christian
worldview, and a multicultural,
00:16:33.48\00:16:38.41
multi-ethnic,
multi-religious worldview.
00:16:38.42\00:16:42.20
And it's a real
threat to the integrity
00:16:42.21\00:16:43.99
of this country, because when
it was founded while I don't
00:16:44.00\00:16:47.03
for a moment buy the
idea that this was founded
00:16:47.04\00:16:49.74
consciously and structurally
00:16:49.75\00:16:51.31
as a Christian nation.
00:16:51.32\00:16:52.95
I mean that, you
know, that's a Spirit's
00:16:52.96\00:16:55.54
argument that
people are buying into it.
00:16:55.55\00:16:57.63
But it clearly was
a Christian Society,
00:16:57.64\00:17:00.32
it was an Anglo-Saxon
Protestant Christian Society
00:17:00.33\00:17:04.19
and that is passing away
00:17:04.20\00:17:05.96
before I arise.
00:17:05.97\00:17:07.06
And that's very
troubling to many people.
00:17:07.07\00:17:09.95
And what do you mean
by the Christian Society,
00:17:09.96\00:17:11.93
maybe you should
find a little bit?
00:17:11.94\00:17:13.00
Well, a society that
exemplified not living
00:17:13.01\00:17:17.45
them out in a perfect way.
00:17:17.46\00:17:18.58
But it held as a common
assumption certain basics
00:17:18.59\00:17:22.09
of what it meant
to be a Christian,
00:17:22.10\00:17:24.51
Christian
morals, Christian norms
00:17:24.52\00:17:27.62
and shared sense of
history, both not just in Europe
00:17:27.63\00:17:32.42
and England but
really hacking back
00:17:32.43\00:17:34.37
even to the Biblical times
00:17:34.38\00:17:35.97
and those norms that have
been formed Protestant Society.
00:17:35.98\00:17:39.35
And there was a
certain uniformity in that,
00:17:39.36\00:17:42.00
that's passing
away very rapidly.
00:17:42.01\00:17:44.04
Was the uniformity cultural
or was it more religious
00:17:44.05\00:17:47.48
I mean, was there a conflict--
00:17:47.49\00:17:49.37
Well, yeah, could
you make a distinction
00:17:49.38\00:17:50.91
in the United States a
couple of hundred years ago,
00:17:50.92\00:17:55.19
they didn't make
as clear a distinction
00:17:55.20\00:17:57.42
as we're doing in
the secular society.
00:17:57.43\00:17:59.34
Between your cultural
heritage and religious views
00:17:59.35\00:18:03.40
that permeated
every aspect of them.
00:18:03.41\00:18:06.39
You know, we can see
a little bit of this now
00:18:06.40\00:18:08.12
in the Middle East that's
going through traumatic times.
00:18:08.13\00:18:10.78
Modernization as well
as geopolitical stresses
00:18:10.79\00:18:14.43
have laid there the
fact that fairly uneducated
00:18:14.44\00:18:18.58
retrograde populations
that have this common faith
00:18:18.59\00:18:21.60
in our backward
out of step culture
00:18:21.61\00:18:24.18
that mix it altogether.
00:18:24.19\00:18:25.52
They don't discriminate.
00:18:25.53\00:18:26.79
And I think
there's a good argument
00:18:26.80\00:18:28.64
that in America of
200, 250 years ago,
00:18:28.65\00:18:33.25
while it was obvious
to those of us who studied
00:18:33.26\00:18:35.82
the history that
there was Taoism.
00:18:35.83\00:18:37.62
And, you know, a
general enlightenment
00:18:37.63\00:18:39.22
views and so on.
00:18:39.23\00:18:40.62
But the general sea of
understanding was sort of
00:18:40.63\00:18:44.52
a Christian Western culture
00:18:44.53\00:18:46.61
that the people didn't question.
00:18:46.62\00:18:48.92
Well, you know--
00:18:48.93\00:18:50.21
And it gave them
a certain security,
00:18:50.22\00:18:52.06
there is no two ways about it.
00:18:52.07\00:18:53.78
And now those that
have always sort of been
00:18:53.79\00:18:57.31
comfortable in
America rather than knowing
00:18:57.32\00:19:00.80
its laws, because we
know that most people
00:19:00.81\00:19:02.18
don't understand
how the government's
00:19:02.19\00:19:03.60
set up and so on.
00:19:03.61\00:19:04.58
They just know
that they're proud to be
00:19:04.59\00:19:05.74
an American, you know,
God and country type thing.
00:19:05.75\00:19:08.93
This is wrapping
it all and together
00:19:08.94\00:19:10.63
and then before their eyes,
00:19:10.64\00:19:11.94
they see it sort
of drifting away.
00:19:11.95\00:19:14.01
That's a severe
challenge to someone whose faith
00:19:14.02\00:19:16.74
is not ultimately
spiritual and truly Bible based
00:19:16.75\00:19:21.44
but a sort of a
cultural religion.
00:19:21.45\00:19:23.61
That's a severe
challenge to national
00:19:23.62\00:19:25.61
and religious identity.
00:19:25.62\00:19:26.70
Well, you know, one of
the difficulties we have is,
00:19:26.71\00:19:28.47
we are living
within two jurisdictions
00:19:28.48\00:19:30.22
as Christians, we're
living within the jurisdiction
00:19:30.23\00:19:32.08
of God and then the
jurisdiction of the state.
00:19:32.09\00:19:34.43
And to give the
state the power of God?
00:19:34.44\00:19:38.41
In other words, to
have the state being
00:19:38.42\00:19:40.04
position of saying, here
is what God wants you to do.
00:19:40.05\00:19:43.81
Is a very dangerous
thing because ultimately
00:19:43.82\00:19:45.65
we answer to a higher authority.
00:19:45.66\00:19:47.16
That's right. That's
the human intention though,
00:19:47.17\00:19:49.25
often to do that, it's
not just in the Christian
00:19:49.26\00:19:51.37
context we're
seeing it in Islam,
00:19:51.38\00:19:53.81
they're in a rush
to give that state,
00:19:53.82\00:19:56.55
the purgatives of God
00:19:56.56\00:19:57.94
and determining a
religious behavior
00:19:57.95\00:20:00.49
And that's a danger I
seen when we're moving toward,
00:20:00.50\00:20:02.94
you know, things like that
Constitution Restoration Act,
00:20:02.95\00:20:05.00
saying we want to put God back
00:20:05.01\00:20:06.08
into the governing of America.
00:20:06.09\00:20:08.32
Now you can be a
Christian and be it in politics
00:20:08.33\00:20:11.12
or be in that
position of authority.
00:20:11.13\00:20:12.68
And you can make moral
decisions based on that.
00:20:12.69\00:20:15.81
But to ultimately
appeal to something
00:20:15.82\00:20:19.42
that's beyond, you know,
secular government is very,
00:20:19.43\00:20:23.44
it's concerning,
because who knows
00:20:23.45\00:20:24.60
where that's coming from.
00:20:24.61\00:20:25.58
Right, you know,
history doesn't necessarily
00:20:25.59\00:20:28.73
repeat itself, but I
think it can inform us
00:20:28.74\00:20:30.92
as to what
might be going on now.
00:20:30.93\00:20:33.29
There is no question
that this religious cultural
00:20:33.30\00:20:36.44
identification with
America has been very powerful.
00:20:36.45\00:20:41.21
Some of its
abbreviations through the years
00:20:41.22\00:20:43.05
have been those
utopian communities even,
00:20:43.06\00:20:46.62
that tried to create
heaven on earth and wrap
00:20:46.63\00:20:49.06
civil society and religious
aspirations all into one.
00:20:49.07\00:20:52.66
The United States I
think is toyed with the idea
00:20:52.67\00:20:56.63
of manifest destiny is really
being a religious entitlement.
00:20:56.64\00:20:59.84
So, you know, more
than most countries
00:20:59.85\00:21:02.59
the United States I
think because it was peoples
00:21:02.60\00:21:04.82
drawn from many places
as manufactured sort of
00:21:04.83\00:21:07.83
a religious myth for legitimacy.
00:21:07.84\00:21:10.27
Well, I think that
myth is still going on,
00:21:10.28\00:21:12.07
if you look at the reasons
00:21:12.08\00:21:13.25
for going to war in Iraq.
00:21:13.26\00:21:14.43
Right, some of them
are, I mean, there is clearly
00:21:14.44\00:21:16.73
religious movement happening
00:21:16.74\00:21:19.33
with at least part of that.
00:21:19.34\00:21:20.86
Now, just before our program,
00:21:20.87\00:21:22.43
I was sharing with
you some comments made
00:21:22.44\00:21:26.16
by Pat Robertson, where
he was talking to a lawyer,
00:21:26.17\00:21:30.26
you remember his name.
00:21:30.27\00:21:31.49
Yeah, Herb Titus.
00:21:31.50\00:21:32.47
Yeah, on this program,
and he made a comment there
00:21:32.48\00:21:35.19
about the right of
United States to wage war
00:21:35.20\00:21:37.88
on its enemies.
00:21:37.89\00:21:39.77
And he said to wage war on
its enemies within and without.
00:21:39.78\00:21:43.43
You know what does that mean?
00:21:43.44\00:21:44.55
Well, if we're
a Christian Nation
00:21:44.56\00:21:46.03
and if we're governed
by God, we can really take
00:21:46.04\00:21:48.25
on the mantle of the
Old Testament Israel.
00:21:48.26\00:21:52.13
We can sort of
approach government
00:21:52.14\00:21:54.36
the same way they did.
00:21:54.37\00:21:55.70
And impose God's law
or put God's law in place
00:21:55.71\00:21:58.76
as law this nation.
00:21:58.77\00:22:00.02
And if we do that we
can operate pretty much
00:22:00.03\00:22:02.50
under the stamp
of God's approval.
00:22:02.51\00:22:04.96
Now when you say that
it sounds chilling to me
00:22:04.97\00:22:07.19
to hear someone else say
it, I often don't share those
00:22:07.20\00:22:10.25
same ideas, but it's true.
00:22:10.26\00:22:11.30
I don't necessarily
agree with that, but--
00:22:11.31\00:22:12.28
No, that's what I mean, I
don't agree with it either
00:22:12.29\00:22:13.63
but I often share
the fact that some people
00:22:13.64\00:22:17.01
think that, but to hear it said,
00:22:17.02\00:22:18.73
it sounds bizarre,
certainly to a secularist
00:22:18.74\00:22:20.95
or someone of
another religious persuasion.
00:22:20.96\00:22:23.32
It definitely is
aberrant as the Sharia law
00:22:23.33\00:22:27.43
fundamental
societies that we're all afraid
00:22:27.44\00:22:29.52
of in the Middle East.
00:22:29.53\00:22:30.50
But we need to tell
our viewers that there is
00:22:30.51\00:22:32.92
this incipient
tendency in this country
00:22:32.93\00:22:35.22
to sort of construct
the same national dynamic.
00:22:35.23\00:22:39.48
I have shared
before on this program
00:22:39.49\00:22:41.72
the fact that
Christian Reconstructionists
00:22:41.73\00:22:44.49
who've been around for nearly
30 years now have pretty much
00:22:44.50\00:22:48.90
created the mindset
for what you expressed
00:22:48.91\00:22:52.06
and it's more well
known now and it's more water
00:22:52.07\00:22:54.72
down form of dominionism.
00:22:54.73\00:22:56.83
There are many of the
current religious leaders
00:22:56.84\00:22:59.06
on television, many
of them who would openly
00:22:59.07\00:23:01.63
acknowledge that they
have at least some part
00:23:01.64\00:23:04.74
in their world scenario
for a dominionist theory.
00:23:04.75\00:23:07.45
Well, it goes back to
the idea that Adam was given
00:23:07.46\00:23:10.20
dominion over the earth.
00:23:10.21\00:23:11.90
And Christians are
spiritual descendants
00:23:11.91\00:23:14.56
of Adam have that same ability.
00:23:14.57\00:23:17.48
And therefore can
take the world by right.
00:23:17.49\00:23:21.79
It's a pretty much a
triumphalist view, isn't it?
00:23:21.80\00:23:24.12
It's an interesting view.
00:23:24.13\00:23:25.66
A lot of people
don't really take it
00:23:25.67\00:23:27.96
to an extreme,
but it's out there
00:23:27.97\00:23:30.27
and the writer, it's increasing.
00:23:30.28\00:23:31.74
And you know I think
people need to understand
00:23:31.75\00:23:34.73
how historical movements work.
00:23:34.74\00:23:36.57
You don't have
to have the majority
00:23:36.58\00:23:39.29
of the population buying
into this for it to really
00:23:39.30\00:23:41.82
be driving events, some
of the most catastrophic
00:23:41.83\00:23:46.96
revolutions and
social changes in the last
00:23:46.97\00:23:49.33
century have
been accomplished by,
00:23:49.34\00:23:51.06
you know, maybe five,
ten percent of the population
00:23:51.07\00:23:53.21
that are motivated and active.
00:23:53.22\00:23:54.67
So to me it's very
significant that more
00:23:54.68\00:23:57.75
than a handful of
the religious leaders
00:23:57.76\00:24:01.17
and spokespersons and
politically active groups
00:24:01.18\00:24:05.13
right now have bought
into this general agenda.
00:24:05.14\00:24:08.28
This sense that
we're where we should be
00:24:08.29\00:24:11.18
a Christian Nation
in the structural sense.
00:24:11.19\00:24:14.07
You know, the
ruling Moguls are not just
00:24:14.08\00:24:16.33
wanting personal expression
00:24:16.34\00:24:18.31
they're basically
planting a flag of ownership
00:24:18.32\00:24:21.25
that this is
structurally God's nation to put
00:24:21.26\00:24:26.18
the Ten Commandments
there and to project religion.
00:24:26.19\00:24:28.67
In fact demand
that all citizens adhere
00:24:28.68\00:24:31.74
to this sort of
religious expression.
00:24:31.75\00:24:33.55
You know what's
interesting is they call
00:24:33.56\00:24:34.91
that acknowledgment of God.
00:24:34.92\00:24:36.58
You see, I'm
going to acknowledge God
00:24:36.59\00:24:38.64
and you can't stop me.
00:24:38.65\00:24:40.01
That's the intent of the
Constitution Restoration Act
00:24:40.02\00:24:43.60
But yet what is that
acknowledgment of God mean?
00:24:43.61\00:24:46.06
It comes down through the person
00:24:46.07\00:24:47.53
who is acknowledging
God, and where is that person
00:24:47.54\00:24:49.57
getting that information.
00:24:49.58\00:24:50.63
And this is a
terrible irony in this,
00:24:50.64\00:24:52.90
it seems to me
that in this country
00:24:52.91\00:24:54.67
which is still
largely nominally Protestant.
00:24:54.68\00:24:57.23
And so many people
before this Republic was formed
00:24:57.24\00:25:01.48
fled the old world
where they were being
00:25:01.49\00:25:04.35
persecuted by state
religions that were doing
00:25:04.36\00:25:07.10
just what we're talking about.
00:25:07.11\00:25:08.27
You know, you adhere
to this form of faith
00:25:08.28\00:25:10.48
or your life maybe even forfeit.
00:25:10.49\00:25:13.49
And they fled here
and now we're sort of
00:25:13.50\00:25:15.46
constructing the same
compulsive Christian behavior.
00:25:15.47\00:25:20.72
I mean it's just an
incredible irony to me.
00:25:20.73\00:25:23.81
Even if they're right,
I believe the Bible gives
00:25:23.82\00:25:27.29
them no authority
to enforce or to force
00:25:27.30\00:25:31.18
others to buy
into their worldview.
00:25:31.19\00:25:34.03
Well, that's an amazing attempt
00:25:34.04\00:25:35.47
to really hijack this country.
00:25:35.48\00:25:37.53
I wouldn't use such a word.
00:25:37.54\00:25:38.65
I mean, I know
it's a strong term.
00:25:38.66\00:25:40.85
But when you look at
consolidation of power,
00:25:40.86\00:25:42.69
when you look
at what's happening
00:25:42.70\00:25:43.94
in all the three
branches of government,
00:25:43.95\00:25:45.59
you look at the
state and federal level.
00:25:45.60\00:25:47.45
You can see that there
is a real attempt to turn
00:25:47.46\00:25:49.91
this country around, I
think the intent is good.
00:25:49.92\00:25:52.53
I think that what
these people want to see
00:25:52.54\00:25:54.46
is a better America and
I think we all want that.
00:25:54.47\00:25:57.42
What I would rather see
is a society of better people
00:25:57.43\00:26:01.87
and you know, on
religious liberty
00:26:01.88\00:26:04.18
dealing often
with push backs against
00:26:04.19\00:26:07.06
restrictions on our faith.
00:26:07.07\00:26:08.26
But the endpoint has
to be that we practice
00:26:08.27\00:26:11.38
our faith in a
meaningful way that the changes
00:26:11.39\00:26:14.23
their life
affects others positively.
00:26:14.24\00:26:16.74
But not through the
strong arm of the law,
00:26:16.75\00:26:19.28
that's antithetical
to true spirituality
00:26:19.29\00:26:21.34
of any religion, but
particularly Christianity.
00:26:21.35\00:26:23.66
While the
government can make laws,
00:26:23.67\00:26:25.17
the government
can enforce behavior
00:26:25.18\00:26:27.55
but they turn, change the heart,
00:26:27.56\00:26:29.11
only God can change the heart.
00:26:29.12\00:26:30.73
And that's the job
of the church to standup
00:26:30.74\00:26:32.90
to it's members
and to say to people,
00:26:32.91\00:26:35.48
here is a better way to live.
00:26:35.49\00:26:36.49
Here's how to
approach these issues
00:26:36.50\00:26:38.35
that effect us all.
00:26:38.36\00:26:39.74
But only God can change
what's in the human heart,
00:26:39.75\00:26:42.97
and only God can
really make the changes
00:26:42.98\00:26:45.54
that are necessary to
make a better America.
00:26:45.55\00:26:47.51
There is no question
that God has blessed America
00:26:49.66\00:26:52.26
as it has stood
for religious freedom.
00:26:52.27\00:26:55.29
There is also another
question that many people
00:26:55.30\00:26:57.17
seem all too ready to
define the United States
00:26:57.18\00:27:00.71
as God's
privileged precious country.
00:27:00.72\00:27:04.18
That can only be true
if individually people
00:27:04.19\00:27:06.81
live up to the claims
that God has put upon them.
00:27:06.82\00:27:11.30
Not because it's
inherently a Christian nation.
00:27:11.31\00:27:14.51
The Ten Commandments
have become somewhat
00:27:14.52\00:27:17.07
a litmus test of how
we define this nation.
00:27:17.08\00:27:20.33
And as we look
to God's Holy law,
00:27:20.34\00:27:23.47
it might be a false
model if we think just
00:27:23.48\00:27:26.27
by posting it in a public place
00:27:26.28\00:27:28.77
we're somehow more Christian.
00:27:28.78\00:27:31.08
When God delivered
the Ten Commandments
00:27:31.09\00:27:32.99
there in Mount
Sinai and engraved them
00:27:33.00\00:27:35.44
in stone with his very finger.
00:27:35.45\00:27:37.43
And the people
quacked in fear before him.
00:27:37.44\00:27:40.16
He said that
these are not too hard
00:27:40.17\00:27:42.19
for you to do,
because they're in your heart.
00:27:42.20\00:27:45.99
Today, in Modern
America, I think the lesson
00:27:46.00\00:27:49.93
should be the same.
00:27:49.94\00:27:51.27
These Ten Commandments
are not valid posted
00:27:51.28\00:27:53.71
by the government.
00:27:53.72\00:27:54.77
They are only valid and
so far as they are placed
00:27:54.78\00:27:58.64
in the heart, and lived
in the life of committed
00:27:58.65\00:28:02.65
Christians throughout the land.
00:28:02.66\00:28:04.06
This is Lincoln
Steed, for Liberty Insider.
00:28:05.98\00:28:09.08