Participants:
Series Code: LGS
Program Code: LGS200105A
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00:01 Hello, and I'm Mel Olsen and this is: Let God Speak.
00:03 King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon spoke these words about God, 00:08 "How great are His signs! and how mighty His wonders! 00:12 His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom. " 00:14 Today, we will discover why this holy king acknowledged God. 00:20 Music... 00:46 On our Panel today, we have Clive Nash and Blair Lemke. 00:49 Welcome to the Panel... it's good to have you here with us, 00:51 let us begin with a prayer. 00:53 "Heavenly Father, this morning we want to acknowledge You 00:57 as King Nebuchadnezzar came to do that 01:00 in the course of his life. 01:02 Help us today to receive Your Spirit within our hearts 01:05 to grow closer to You 01:07 and to be a part of Your kingdom when You come, 01:10 we ask for Your blessing, in Your name, Amen. " 01:13 So, so far, Clive, in the discussions we've been having 01:18 over the last Series of... of the three weeks, 01:20 we've talked about King Nebuchadnezzar 01:23 and we've seen how powerful he's become. 01:25 Tell us... what does history tell us about him? 01:28 Clive: Well if we go to an authoritative source 01:31 like the Encyclopedia Britannica, 01:33 we see that he was a Chaldean king... a king of Babylon... 01:37 Mel: Yes. 01:38 Clive: He took over from his father... 01:40 he built up the empire to a large extent 01:42 so it became the dominant world empire of its day, 01:45 from about 605 B.C. to 561. 01:49 He was known for... 01:51 for extending the city itself of Babylon... 01:55 not just the empire but... 01:57 Mel: So, he was developing stuff... building... yeah... 02:00 Clive: Yeah, and it's interesting that 02:03 he built up these wonderful gates... 02:06 I've been to the Pergamon Museum in Berlin 02:10 I've seen this wonderful Ishtar Gates, you know... 02:12 Mel: And these are the same ones? 02:14 Clive: Yeah, and it's amazing that thousands of years later, 02:16 you have these beautiful glazed bricks, 02:18 you know, that still look wonderful 02:19 and Daniel would have walked through these gates 02:23 when he came to Babylon 02:25 and it would have been impressive... 02:27 much more impressive perhaps than Jerusalem itself. 02:30 One of the things about Nebuchadnezzar too 02:32 is that he built the famous Hanging Gardens... 02:35 it was one of the 7 Wonders of the World. 02:37 Mel: Yes. 02:38 Clive: He also built 11 temples to his gods 02:43 but one of those temples was dedicated to Marduk 02:48 who was the top dog 02:50 and it's interesting, Mel, that he described Marduk 02:54 as the Lord of Heaven and Earth. 02:56 Mel: Counterfeiting... is that what you're saying? 02:59 Clive: Yeah... 03:00 Mel: Counterfeit... yes... yes. 03:02 Clive: So, he built Babylon for the... 03:05 the Encyclopedia says, "For his own glorification 03:09 but also in honor of the gods. 03:11 He claimed to be the one who set in the mouth of the people 03:14 reverence for the great gods. 03:16 Mel: So, god was very prominent with an "s" 03:20 god... that is with an "s" was very prominent at this time 03:23 wasn't it? 03:24 Okay, so, Blair, we've covered chapters 1 to 3 so far in Daniel 03:28 give us a little bit of a summary of those... 03:31 just to set the setting for the... 03:33 Blair: Yeah, well they're really powerful chapters 03:35 where in each of the stories in the first few chapters, 03:39 we see instances where the King Nebuchadnezzar's attention 03:42 is drawn to acknowledge or see the God of heaven 03:46 and so, in Daniel chapter 1 you have the Hebrew boys 03:50 that took the vegetarian diet... wouldn't eat the king's food 03:53 and were ten times better than all the others. 03:56 In Daniel chapter 2, the king has a dream 03:59 and he has that dream interpreted by Daniel 04:02 and then at the end of the chapter, 04:03 he's able to say, 04:05 "Truly your God is the God of gods, 04:07 the Lord of kings, and the revealer of secrets... " 04:09 you know, he's drawn again to see God 04:12 and then, of course, in Daniel chapter 3, 04:14 we see those three Hebrew boys who stood up 04:16 and were ready to face even death to stand up for their God 04:20 and then, again, at the end of this chapter, 04:22 Nebuchadnezzar is brought to say, 04:24 "Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 04:27 who delivered his servants... 04:29 there's no other God who can deliver like this. " 04:31 And so, it's really quite remarkable instances of God... 04:35 Nebuchadnezzar's attention being drawn 04:37 to acknowledge the God of heaven... 04:38 not necessarily worship Him at this stage but acknowledge Him. 04:41 Clive: Hmmm... Mel: Oh, that's good, 04:43 so, Daniel chapter 4 opens 04:45 with the king himself actually writing a letter, Clive, 04:48 and so, who did he address that letter to? 04:51 Clive: Well, let me just say that this is one of the chapters 04:55 that's written in Aramaic 04:57 which is interesting because it's not written in Hebrew 05:00 and this is probably the only chapter in the Bible 05:04 that was written by a non-Jew or a non-Christian... 05:07 Mel: Amazing! 05:09 Clive: Yeah, but in verse 1 of chapter 4, 05:12 he says, "Nebuchadnezzar the king, 05:15 to all people, nations, and languages, 05:17 that dwell in all the earth; peace be multiplied to you. " 05:20 So, he's addressing this as a testimony, really, 05:24 about his experience with the God of heaven. 05:27 I think he's a little bit... 05:29 using a little bit of a hyperbole, don't you? 05:31 "Unto all peoples... all nations of the earth... " 05:35 I'm not sure how he admitted "around the earth... " 05:38 but as far as what he would have considered the civilized world, 05:41 at that time... he was addressing. 05:43 Mel: Okay, so in this chapter, 05:46 he talks about another dream that he's had 05:48 but the dream itself has some puzzling aspects 05:52 so, Clive, again, how does his demeanor change 05:55 after getting this dream? 05:57 Clive: Well, let's have a look at verses 4 and 5 06:00 of Daniel chapter 4, 06:04 where he says, "I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in my house, 06:08 and flourishing in my palace... " 06:10 there's one thing about it... he was doing really well... 06:13 he was at the height of... of his fame and power, 06:17 as it were... "I was flourishing... " 06:18 and then verse 5, he says, "I saw a dream 06:22 which made me afraid, 06:24 and the thoughts on my bed 06:26 and the visions of my head troubled me. " 06:28 There was something about this dream 06:29 that he knew had significance but he was so afraid 06:33 and he was... he was troubled... 06:35 perhaps he was remembering the previous dream that he had had 06:39 which he couldn't remember 06:40 and knew that it had some significance. 06:43 Mel: Yes, so, what was the concept of "flourishing" Blair, 06:47 might have given him the self-confidence in this dream, 06:50 so, start us of with it. 06:52 Blair: Yeah, well, if we have a look here in Daniel chapter 4 06:54 verses 10 through 12, it says that... 06:56 "These were the visions of my head while on my bed: 06:59 I was looking, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, 07:01 and its height was great. 07:03 The tree grew and became strong; 07:04 its height reached to the heavens, 07:05 and it would be seen to the ends of all the earth. 07:07 Its leaves were lovely, its fruit abundant, 07:09 and in it was food for all. 07:10 The beasts of the field found shade under it, 07:12 the birds of the heavens dwelt in its branches, 07:14 and all flesh was fed by it. " 07:17 And so, the picture we see here is a picture of great provision, 07:21 other nations coming and being provided for... 07:23 seeing, you know, as being a shelter 07:26 and so, really, you do... this is, as Clive pointed out, 07:30 capturing a period of time where the king of Babylon 07:34 was very much flourishing. 07:36 Clive: Yeah, he uses words, doesn't he, like, Blair, 07:38 like, "It was... height was great, strong, 07:42 reached to heaven... " 07:44 yeah, it's quite powerful language that he's using here. 07:50 Mel: Very powerful language, 07:51 so, the pictures of this large tree... 07:55 what significance in Scripture does a tree have? 07:58 Blair: Yeah, if we turn across to Ezekiel chapter 31 08:02 and pick it up in verse 3, 08:04 we... we can see here a description 08:07 of the Prophet Ezekiel as he's describing 08:09 a serious conquest of Egypt 08:11 and this is where we read in chapter 31 08:14 as he describes the situation, 08:15 it says, "Indeed Assyria was a cedar in Lebanon, 08:19 with fine branches that shaded the forest, 08:21 and of a high stature; 08:22 and its top was among the high... thick boughs... " 08:26 and then, across in verse 5, 08:28 it talks about its height being exalted... 08:30 the birds of heaven being under it... 08:32 they have their nests it its boughs... 08:34 and in its shadow all great nations made their home. 08:38 And so, you see this picture here of... in Scripture... 08:42 a nation being represented by a tree... 08:46 or a tree representing a nation. 08:47 It says there, "Assyria was like a cedar that provided... " 08:51 again provision... 08:52 very similar to the passage that we've just read 08:54 in Daniel chapter 4. 08:55 Mel: Yes, okay, so, 08:57 we're talking about the dream again there, Clive, 08:59 he was afraid and troubled... 09:02 can you unpack that a bit for us? 09:04 Clive: He must have felt that there was importance 09:08 to this dream that he had 09:10 and he didn't know what it meant. 09:13 Perhaps he had some inkling that it represented his kingdom 09:18 and maybe himself personally... 09:20 but in verse 13 we read, 09:24 "I saw in the visions of my head while on my bed, 09:28 and there was a watcher... " 09:29 this is interpreted as being a heavenly watcher... 09:34 like someone from heaven... 09:36 "a holy one... " just to expand on that idea, 09:39 "coming down from heaven. " 09:40 Verse 14... "He cried aloud and said thus: 09:43 'Chop down the tree and cut off its branches, 09:46 strip off its leaves... " 09:48 this is getting pretty ominous... 09:49 All: Agreeing... 09:51 Clive: "Let the beasts get out from under it, 09:53 and the birds from its branches. " 09:55 But the first half of verse 15 says, 09:58 "Nevertheless leave the stump and roots in the earth, 10:01 bound with a band of iron and bronze. " 10:04 So, he's a bit concerned about what... what does this all mean? 10:10 Mel: Yes, so I guess his anxiety is growing and growing, 10:14 Clive, can you tell us how the dream ends then. 10:16 Clive: Well, second half of verse 15, 10:19 Daniel 4... "Let it be wet with the dew of heaven, 10:23 and let him... " 10:25 so this is becoming an individual now... 10:27 "let him graze with the beasts on the grass of the earth. " 10:33 Verse 16... 10:35 "Let his heart be changed from that of a man, 10:37 let him be given the heart of a beast... " 10:39 and then, there's a time element introduced... 10:41 "Let seven times pass over him. " 10:45 Verse 17... 10:46 "This decision is by the decree of the watchers... " 10:49 there's this heavenly beings there... 10:51 here's the "holy one" again... 10:52 "And the sentence by the word of the holy ones, in order... " 10:55 there's a purpose for it you see. 10:57 Mel: Yes, yeah. 10:58 Clive: In order that the living may know 11:00 that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, 11:04 gives it to whomever He will, 11:06 and sets over it the lowest of men. " 11:09 Yeah... 11:12 Mel: This is a good reason for the fear creeping in, I imagine. 11:16 Clive: Hmmm... hmmm... 11:17 Mel: Okay, so, Blair, if I said that the king was a mighty king 11:22 but a slow learner, 11:24 is there anything in the next few verses 11:26 that might indicate this? 11:28 Blair: Yeah, have a look here in verse... 11:33 chapter 4 verse 6 and 7, 11:34 it says, "Therefore I issued a decree 11:37 to bring in all the wise men of Babylon before me, 11:40 that they might make known to me 11:41 the interpretation of this dream. 11:43 Then the magicians, the astrologers, 11:44 the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers came in, 11:46 I told them the dream; 11:47 but they did not make known to me its interpretation. " 11:50 This is a repeat from Daniel chapter 2... 11:52 Clive: It's just like the same. 11:55 Blair: He didn't learn the lesson... 11:56 these... these people who were supposed to be 11:59 in connection with God 12:00 are not able to communicate the mysteries of... 12:03 we know the Bible says that God alone knows the future. 12:06 Clive: It wasn't any help to go back over the image, 12:08 were they? 12:10 Are they going to... 12:11 is he going to have any better luck this time? 12:13 Blair: He may think so, but no... 12:14 Mel: So, that's why I came this way a little bit, 12:18 let me just read verse 8 and verse 9, 12:21 and the king is talking here, 12:23 "But at last Daniel came before me... " 12:25 and then the king actually pauses 12:27 and puts a parenthesis in here and he says, 12:30 "His name is Belteshazzar, 12:32 according to the name of my god... " 12:35 Clive: Yeah, "Bel" was one of the gods wasn't he? 12:37 Mel: Yeah, Bel was and still in the parenthesis he said, 12:40 "In him is the Spirit of the Holy God, 12:43 and I told the dream before him, saying: 12:47 'Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, 12:50 because I know that the Spirit of the Holy God is in you, 12:54 and no secret troubles you, 12:56 explain to me the visions of my dream that I have seen, 13:01 and its interpretation. " 13:03 And so, Blair, what do you think? 13:05 It's interesting to me that you've got 13:08 "my god... and the Spirit of the living God... " 13:11 in the one sentence. 13:13 Blair: Yeah, it is interesting especially 13:15 that king Nebuchnezzar would say that... 13:17 he refers to his own god 13:19 but then he also refers to the "Spirit of the Living God" 13:23 and I think it's remarkable that the king... this pagan king 13:27 is able to recognize 13:28 after he's seen evidences of God's power 13:31 and he... but he still follows his own gods 13:33 and he acknowledges that here. 13:35 But he is in the midst of following his own god... 13:39 he's still seeking out Daniel 13:40 who the Spirit of the Living God works in him 13:43 and so he's making the acknowledgement 13:44 that the God of heaven is working in the life of Daniel, 13:48 he can see that. 13:50 Mel: Yeah, that's powerful isn't it... to see that? 13:51 Now, Clive, we find Daniel is faced with the interpretation 13:55 but he's talking to the king 13:58 and there are some negatives in this, 14:00 how does he handle it? 14:01 Clive: Well, I can imagine if he sensed, 14:04 through the Spirit of God moving in him 14:07 that if there's something negative about the king 14:10 that... "What do I say to him? 14:12 How do I put this?" 14:14 Mel: That's right. 14:15 Clive: "I would be diplomatic, you know, 14:16 in putting this 14:18 because there is a negative message out of this... " 14:20 let's pick it up... the story in verse 19, 14:24 "Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, 14:27 was astonished for a time, 14:29 and his thoughts troubled him. 14:31 So the king spoke, and said, 14:33 'Belteshazzar, do not let the dream 14:35 or its interpretation trouble you. ' 14:37 Belteshazzar answered and said, 'My lord... '" 14:40 and here he's kind of deflecting things a little bit, 14:43 he says, "may the dream concern those who hate you, 14:47 and its interpretation concern your enemies!" 14:49 "I wish this was a dream about your enemies... 14:52 not about you... Nebuchadnezzar... " 14:54 Mel: I guess he's got to have polite behavior 14:56 in conversation with the king, 14:57 at the same time deliver a message that's a negative one, 15:01 yes... yeah... 15:02 so, we find Daniel is faithful and commences the interpretation 15:06 so, who is the subject of the dream 15:09 and what is the dream about? 15:11 Well, verse 20, he says, "The tree that you saw, 15:15 which grew and became strong, et cetera... et cetera... 15:19 filled the whole earth... " he says... 15:21 and then in verse 22 he says, "It is you, O king, 15:24 who have grown and become strong; 15:27 for your greatness has grown and reaches to the heavens, 15:29 and your dominion to the end of the earth. " 15:32 "So, unfortunately, Nebuchadnezzar, 15:34 I have to tell you that you're represented by this tree 15:38 that's going to be cut down. " 15:39 Mel: So, in the dream... 15:40 that's where it became personal, didn't it? 15:42 It was going from great nations down to... you... 15:45 and it's... it's you... 15:47 yeah, so, what else happens to the tree, Blair? 15:49 Blair: Yeah, well obviously, as has been pointed out, 15:52 this tree in 23 is going to be chopped down and cut down 15:55 and then, Daniel really just interprets this 15:58 in verse 24 and 25, 16:00 he says, "This is the interpretation, O king, 16:02 and this is the decree of the Most High, 16:04 which has come upon my lord the king: 16:06 they shall drive you from men, 16:08 your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, 16:10 and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. 16:12 They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, 16:14 and seven times shall pass over you, 16:16 till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, 16:19 and gives it to whomever He chooses. " 16:21 And so, we see this time period of seven years 16:23 which will be the conditions of the banishment 16:26 and the king will have to act like an animal... 16:29 will be like an animal during this time 16:31 until he knows that the Most High rules. 16:34 Mel: It's pretty powerful message to receive, isn't it? 16:36 Clive: Yes. 16:37 Mel: A bit shocking... so what assurance and advice 16:40 did Daniel give Nebuchadnezzar? 16:42 Blair: Yeah, if we keep reading on here in verses 26 and 27, 16:45 it says, "And inasmuch as they gave the command 16:48 to leave the stump and the roots of the tree, 16:50 your kingdom shall be assured to you, 16:52 after you come to know that the Heaven rules. " 16:55 And verse 27, "Therefore, O king, 16:57 let my advice be acceptable to you; 16:59 break off your sins by being righteous, 17:01 and your iniquities 17:03 and by showing mercy to the poor. 17:05 Perhaps there may be a lengthening 17:06 of your prosperity. " 17:07 And so, we see the situation here 17:10 that his kingdom is assured to him... 17:13 it said, "It will come back... you'll acknowledge God... 17:15 this is an assurance... " 17:16 but then he gives some advice and then he says, 17:18 "Turn away from your sins and your wickedness... 17:20 turn to God. " 17:21 This is powerful advice for us today. 17:23 Mel: That's right and, of course, Jesus... 17:26 part of His mission was... 17:27 He has... He's wanting to save everybody 17:31 so He's given Nebuchadnezzar an opportunity hasn't He 17:33 to come to Him? 17:35 Yeah, absolutely, so I just want to read from Daniel 4 17:38 and verses 29 and 30, 17:41 "All this came upon King Nebuchadnezzar. 17:44 At the end of the twelve months 17:46 he was walking about in the royal palace of Babylon. " 17:49 So, he's given a time slot of 12 months here 17:52 where he can actually bring about this change 17:56 but in verse 30, "The king spoke saying, 17:58 'Is not this great Babylon, 18:01 that I have built for a royal dwelling 18:03 by my mighty power 18:05 and for the honor of my majesty?" 18:07 Ah, it's a pretty strong statement isn't it? 18:09 So, Clive, does this spell the end of the Babylonian Empire? 18:13 Clive: Well, history shows that there was a son who took over 18:18 and there was a grandson, you know, 18:19 so the empire did go on after this time, 18:22 but I'm interested in the fact that he was given 12 months, 18:26 it's like the probationary period wasn't it 18:28 for him to... to come his senses? 18:30 Mel: Yes. 18:32 Clive: I don't think the dream was... 18:33 I think the dream was a conditional one, 18:34 you know, he could have actually turned aside 18:37 and acknowledged God 18:38 and not have gone into this spirit of animal behavior. 18:42 Mel: Okay, so... 18:43 so what happens when the seven years 18:46 of the animal behavior is up, Clive? 18:49 Clive: Well, it says in verse 34, 18:52 "And at the end of the time I, Nebuchadnezzar, 18:55 lifted my eyes to heaven, 18:56 and my understanding returned to me... " 18:59 and the significant thing is, 19:01 he says, "I blessed the Most High... " 19:05 he's talking about Jehovah here, 19:06 not about Bel or Marduk 19:09 or any of the other nine other gods that he had 19:12 but "he praised the Most High 19:15 and honored Him who lives forever... the living God... 19:17 for His dominion is an everlasting dominion, 19:20 and His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom... 19:23 it's from generation to generation. " 19:25 Mel: Yes, so Blair, 19:27 what happens when we lift our eyes to heaven? 19:31 Blair: Yeah, well, James chapter 4 verse 8 tells us... 19:34 it says, "Draw near to God 19:36 and He will draw near to you. " 19:37 As we lift our eyes to heaven... as we acknowledge God, 19:40 He draws near to us and we draw near to Him. 19:42 It's powerful. 19:43 Mel: Yes, it is indeed, 19:45 so, did God make good on His promise 19:47 to restore Nebuchadnezzar? 19:48 Blair: Yeah, well, yeah back in... 19:50 back in Daniel there... we'll just try to find it here, 19:54 yeah, back in Daniel chapter 4 verse 36 19:58 and 37... it says, 20:02 "At that time my reason returned to me, 20:05 and for the glory of my kingdom, 20:06 my honor and splendor returned to me. 20:09 My counselors and nobles resorted to me, 20:11 and I was restored to my kingdom, 20:12 and excellent majesty was added to me. " 20:14 And it says, "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, 20:15 praise and exalt and honor the King of heaven... " 20:18 Ah, so, yes, we see that this promise that was made 20:20 at the end of the chapter is... is fulfilled. 20:22 Mel: Yes, that's good 20:24 and of course, this was about restore... 20:26 well, we say "restoring" 20:28 but in bringing him to a knowledge of God 20:30 and he had this opportunity... 20:32 it came to him for this restoration, didn't it? 20:34 Blair: And it shows us the incredible lengths 20:36 that God will go to to restore people 20:39 to be in favor with Him. 20:40 Mel: Yeah, that's... that's amazing... 20:41 in the New Testament story, 20:43 you've got a jailor talking to Paul and Silas 20:46 and I just wanted to read a question that was asked... 20:50 that the jailor actually asked and he said... 20:53 and this is in... in Acts chapter 16 and verse 30, 20:57 he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 21:00 and the answer came to him, 21:02 "So they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, 21:06 and you will be saved, you and your household. '" 21:09 Now, Clive, is salvation gained that easily... 21:12 just by believing? 21:13 Clive: Well, faith and action go hand in hand, of course, 21:17 you know, but the action or the "works" 21:20 if you'd like to put it that way, 21:21 is... is something that grows out of faith naturally, 21:23 it's not something that saves us... 21:26 it's the faith that saves. 21:27 Now, look at Ephesians chapter 2 verse 8, for example, 21:30 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, 21:34 and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. " 21:37 We don't earn gifts... 21:39 Mel: So, they're given freely by God to us 21:42 but the action part of it is... 21:45 believing and then following through with it. 21:47 Clive: Hmmm... Mel: Yes, okay, that's... 21:49 Clive: And this is the experience of Nebuchadnezzar, 21:51 he experienced a change in his life 21:54 because of his "faith" relationship with Daniel's God, 21:58 He became his God. 21:59 Mel: Yes indeed... indeed. 22:01 So, "Pride" has been called the first sin, 22:04 so, where did Ezekiel find that it was originated from, Clive? 22:09 Clive: Ah, well, you are referring to the vision 22:14 that Ezekiel had, that's chapter 28 of Ezekiel... 22:20 Mel: Verse 17... 22:21 Clive: Yes, verse 17... "Your heart was lifted up... " 22:25 so, here's the pride coming through... 22:26 "because of your beauty; 22:28 you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; 22:31 and so, because of that, 22:33 I cast you to the ground... " He says. 22:36 He's talking about the king of Tyre here 22:39 but it's really... behind it is the symbol of Lucifer himself, 22:42 of Satan... he was lifted up... he became proud. 22:46 Mel: Yes, so that word "proud" or "pride... " 22:49 Clive: And certainly Nebuchadnezzar, I think, had it 22:52 had a big dose of pride, didn't he? 22:54 "Is this not this great Babylon... " 22:56 Mel: That's right, "Is not... " 22:58 he... he built this enormous kingdom, hadn't he? 23:00 and in one spot I was reading... it talked... 23:02 "as far as the eye can see from east to west 23:04 and north to south... " 23:05 he could claim it as his territory. 23:07 Clive: Yeah, well the problem with it was 23:10 that God gave him the dominion and the power 23:13 but Nebuchadnezzar took the credit to himself. 23:16 Mel: And so, what are we saying? 23:18 That God is in control of kings and universes... 23:21 in the universe... I mean... 23:23 the powers... the governments... 23:24 is that what we're leading to? 23:26 Clive: Well, that's what the Bible says, doesn't it? 23:28 "I will raise kings and I'll put them down. " 23:30 Mel: Yes... yes... and this is an example, 23:32 of course, of that happening, 23:34 so, we're talking about "Pride" here, Blair, 23:37 what makes it so dangerous? 23:39 Blair: Yeah, pride is dangerous for many reasons 23:42 but I suppose one reason is that it puts us in a position 23:45 where we forget the dependence 23:47 that we have on God for absolutely everything... 23:49 for life... for breath... for everything... 23:51 and when we are in a position 23:53 where we're not aware of our dependence on God, 23:55 that's actually very dangerous spiritual ground to be. 23:59 Clive: Do you think that... that this is a temptation 24:02 for people who are in power today? 24:04 No, I think it's a political power... for example? 24:08 Their egos can come to the fore. 24:11 Mel: Well, we're not pointing any fingers, 24:13 but just watch the news a little bit 24:16 and you start to draw that conclusion, don't you? 24:18 Clive: It can be a temptation. 24:19 Mel: And it can be an ego push to... to glorify themselves. 24:23 Clive: Yeah, if you're successful in business... 24:25 you become wealthy... 24:27 Mel: What about at a personal level? 24:29 Is that an issue as well? 24:31 Clive: I think we all struggle with that. 24:34 It's pretty well said isn't it 24:38 that the word S I N... sin... what's the middle letter? 24:41 Mel: "I" Clive: It is... it is "I" 24:43 Mel: You see, Blair, I'm coming to you with this, 24:45 why is it so difficult for humans to become humble? 24:50 Blair: Yeah, look, if you turn with me to James chapter 4 24:54 and we read verse 5 through to 7, 24:56 it says... oh, let's just pick up in verse 6 here, 24:59 it says, "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. 25:03 Therefore, submit to God. 25:05 Resist the devil and he will flee from you. " 25:08 And look at verse 10 there, it says, 25:09 "Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, 25:11 and He will lift you up. " 25:12 It's... it's... you know, 25:14 humility is something that's hard to do 25:15 because inside all of us, we have a desire for praise... 25:18 for accolades... 25:20 but... but God's telling us here in His Word 25:22 that He's asking us to, I guess, have a position of humble... 25:26 humble ourselves in the sight of God. 25:27 I love how Jesus says it in Matthew chapter 23 25:32 and picking up in verse 12, it says, 25:35 "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, 25:37 but he who humbles himself will be exalted. " 25:40 And so, we see the principles of God's kingdom 25:42 operate very differently 25:44 from the principles of Satan's kingdom, 25:45 where he was trying to exalt himself... raise himself up... 25:47 God's principles are very much different to that. 25:51 Mel: Yes, and so when we come under the influence of Jesus, 25:55 we are humbled before Him. 25:58 Clive: I believe so. 25:59 Mel: Absolutely, that's good. 26:00 Clive: It was a pervasive experience 26:02 for Nebuchadnezzar, wasn't it? 26:03 Mel: Yes, it was. 26:04 Clive: Along the way... as you read those texts, 26:06 he acknowledged the God 26:07 but it really didn't impact him totally. 26:09 Blair: Well you can see in that text, 26:11 God resists the proud... 26:13 you know, we can see that in this story... 26:15 Nebuchadnezzar being resisted 26:18 but then, through that gives grace to the humble. 26:20 Mel: Yes, that's right... 26:21 So it took Nebuchadnezzar a long time 26:23 and a lot of experience he had before he submitted to God. 26:26 Clive, what lessons can we learn from this? 26:29 Clive: Well, I like the words of the Lord to Solomon 26:33 in 2nd Chronicles 7 verse 14, 26:36 "If My people who are called by My name 26:39 will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, 26:43 and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, 26:46 and will forgive their sin... " 26:47 Blair: Yeah, powerful... 26:49 Mel: Yeah, it's a coming to God in humility 26:52 on our knees asking Him to take care of that 26:56 and to play a role in that. 26:57 Clive: Hebrews says, "Looking unto Jesus... " 26:58 Mel: Yes, absolutely, 27:00 "the author and finisher of our faith. " 27:03 Well, our time's just about gone today 27:06 and in Psalm 103 and verse 19, it says, 27:08 "The Lord has established His throne in heaven, 27:11 and His kingdom rules over all. " 27:14 Nebuchadnezzar came to understand this 27:17 and we too can bow humbly before God 27:20 and praise Him for His gift of grace 27:23 Jesus Christ our Savior... 27:25 so, thank you for joining us on: Let God Speak. 27:28 You can view all past programs and download the Teacher's Notes 27:32 from our website: 3abnaustralia. org. au 27:37 We welcome your e-mails on: Lgs@3abnaustralia. org. au 27:44 God bless. |
Revised 2020-04-27