Participants: Deyvy Rodriguez & Jon Paulien
Series Code: JBOTB
Program Code: JBOTB00020A
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00:21 Hello, friends and welcome back
00:22 to this program "Books of the Book." 00:25 My name is Deyvy Rodriquez 00:26 and I am so happy that you can take this time 00:28 and study the Word of God with us. 00:31 If you have a Bible or if you don't, 00:32 go ahead and grab it and turn your pages with us 00:37 in the Gospel of John and we are in Chapter 15. 00:41 With us is Dr. Jon Paulien and my name is Deyvy Rodriquez, 00:45 together we will be studying this gospel, 00:47 at least portion of it in this program. 00:49 And Dr. Paulien is a Bible scholar 00:52 and he comes all the way from Loma Linda, California. 00:55 And again, Dr. Paulien, 00:57 I have been blessed to study this gospel 01:00 and you call it a spiritual gospel. 01:02 And as I continue to learn more and more 01:05 I understand why its a spiritual because you say that 01:07 some of these characters have a more of a parable. 01:12 And so tell us before we get into the chapter, 01:15 you where or what do you do at Loma Linda? 01:20 I am the dean of the School of Religion 01:22 and so our mission is to integrate religion 01:27 into all the different curricula in the school, 01:30 medicine, dentistry, pharmacy 01:33 and that's a very creative and unique way of doing religion 01:38 integrating it into science or so. 01:40 It's quite a challenge but it's also very exciting. 01:43 And you said earlier that you are responsible 01:45 of organizing the religion classes 01:49 so that each student of Loma Linda University 01:53 will take at least some religion courses. 01:57 At least one class every year. 01:59 Okay. Yeah. 02:00 So we have about 5,000 different students 02:04 taking classes from us in any given year. 02:06 Wow. All right. 02:07 Well, we are in Chapter 15. 02:10 Where are we in this chapter because in previous one 02:14 they were-- Jesus was giving discourse in the upper room 02:18 but now we are in Chapter 15. Right. 02:21 Well, Chapters 13 through 17 are all connected narrative. 02:27 It starts with the foot washing and then after Judas leaves, 02:32 Jesus begins to talk to the disciples, 02:34 does a little bit of debate back and forth. 02:37 So through Chapter 14, Jesus is discussing with the disciples 02:42 but then at the end of Chapter 14, 02:45 there's an interesting marker. 02:47 If you go to the very last verse, 02:49 the very last part of the verse, 14:31, 02:53 Jesus says, "Come now, let us leave." 02:57 And so that sounds like they are gonna get up and go. 03:01 But then in Chapter 15, He continues talking 03:06 and you're saying, well, are they talking on the way? 03:09 Is this somewhere else? 03:11 But then you get to Chapter 18 03:14 which is the end of this farewell discourse part of John. 03:18 In 18:1, it says, "When he had finished praying, 03:23 Jesus left with His disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. 03:29 On the other side there was an olive grove, 03:31 and He and His disciples went into it." 03:34 So Chapters 15, 16 and 17 which includes a long prayerof Jesus, 03:38 none of that is happening in Gethsemane, 03:41 rather it's happening probably still in the upper room 03:45 and it's after Jesus prays in Chapter 17. 03:49 Then they go out and go off to there. 03:53 Now you notice He doesn't say Gethsemane, 03:55 just says an olive grove and that's where they went to. 03:59 So at the end of Chapter 14, 04:01 it seems like they get up from the table, 04:04 they are ready to go but like people often do, 04:07 you get up to leave then you kind of linger 04:09 and talk some more and one thing leads to another 04:11 and one story leads to another and couple of hours can go by. 04:15 That seems to be what has happened here. 04:17 After all, if the disciples have the sense 04:19 and Jesus has the sense 04:20 this is their last calm meeting together, 04:24 they kind of doesn't want to make it last as long as possible 04:27 even though it's late at night by now, they lingered there. 04:30 So Chapter 15 really continues on Chapter 14, 04:35 except that in Chapter 14 there's a lot of back and forth. 04:39 Disciples raise objections, ask questions, make comments 04:42 and Jesus is going back and forth with them. 04:46 We didn't point any of that out in our last program 04:50 but if you read the chapter you will see it. 04:53 One another thing we didn't do in Chapter 14 04:55 is note the passages about the Holy Spirit. 04:59 In 14, 15 and 16 are some of the strongest mentions 05:03 of the Holy Spirit in the entire New Testament. 05:06 So what we are going to do 05:08 is do Chapters 14, 15 and 16 separately 05:12 and then we gonna go back and do a whole program 05:15 just on the Holy Spirit in the Gospel of John. 05:18 Okay. So where are we reading? 05:20 I think we should go to Chapter 15 then 05:23 and we can read verses 1 through 8. 05:27 "I am the true vine, 05:28 and My Father is the vinedresser. 05:31 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away, 05:35 and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, 05:38 that it may bear more fruit. 05:40 You are already clean because of the word 05:42 which I have spoken to you. 05:44 Abide in Me, and I in you. 05:46 As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, 05:48 unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, 05:51 unless you abide in Me. 05:54 I am the vine, you are the branches. 05:56 He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit, 05:59 for without Me you can do nothing. 06:02 If anyone does not abide in Me, 06:04 he is cast out as a branch and is withered, 06:07 and they gather them and throw them into the fire, 06:10 and they are burned. 06:11 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, 06:14 you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 06:18 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, 06:22 so you will be My disciples." 06:24 So here we have an analogy. 06:26 As we've mentioned many times 06:28 the Gospel of John doesn't have parables 06:31 in the way that Matthew, Mark and Luke do 06:34 but the closest you get to a parable is may be right here. 06:37 This analogy we could call it of the vine and the branches. 06:43 Grape vine basically has two uses. 06:47 You can use it to produce food and drink, 06:49 the grapes and juice and wine or you can use it for fire. 06:55 You see, the branches of a dead vine 06:58 can be use to start a fire and keep people warm. 07:01 So there's two uses. 07:03 Now in an analogy like this the food and drink 07:07 would be positive if you stay in Jesus. 07:11 You know, if you remain connected to the vine, 07:13 the fruit would be produced as productive, 07:16 this is a positive thing. 07:18 But if you don't, 07:19 if you get separated from the vine, you dry out 07:21 and all that you're good for is the fire now to be used as fuel. 07:26 So the fuel would be negative type of approach here. 07:30 So Jesus uses an analogy. He's not the first to do this. 07:35 Plenty of times in the Old Testament 07:37 you have analogies of Israel as a vine. 07:41 The interesting thing is in the Old Testament 07:43 all of those analogies are negative. 07:46 There's never a positive thing. 07:48 So when Jesus brings this out, 07:51 probably the readers are wondering, 07:53 you know, where is the dark side 07:55 and the dark side of course is the implied threat 07:58 that if they don't stay connected to Jesus, 08:01 they will end up useless and be destroyed. 08:06 Now most Christians through the years have come to this 08:12 and thought of themselves as the branches. 08:16 I think that's a helpful devotional approach to this text 08:19 the idea of remaining connected to Jesus. 08:23 But as you look at this 08:25 from the perspective of the original disciples, 08:29 Jesus isn't talking directly to us, 08:32 He is talking to His disciples and He's saying, 08:35 "If you remain in Me, you will bear much fruit." 08:39 And in the light of the whole second generation 08:42 theology of the Gospel of John this becomes significant. 08:45 We connect to Jesus through the disciples. 08:48 Unlike the disciples we don't have 08:50 the direct connection with Jesus. 08:52 We don't see Him. 08:53 We don't hear Him. 08:55 We don't touch Him. 08:56 So we have our connection through the disciples 09:00 and we connect to the disciples through the word. 09:03 So these words, the gospels, 09:05 the Gospel of John is our connection to the disciples 09:09 and through them to Jesus. 09:11 So when He says, "I am the vine, 09:13 you are the branches if you remain in Me, 09:15 you will bring forth much fruit." 09:18 We would be the fruit that is recognized here. 09:21 You mean that we would be the fruits of the disciples. 09:24 Of the disciples' efforts, yeah. 09:26 Disciples witnessing through what they learned of Jesus 09:29 writing these things down etcetera. 09:31 Now we were talking a little bit earlier, 09:33 you were saying but you know, if you or someone were preaching 09:37 or holding a class and you bring this up 09:40 that will make them very uncomfortable and so on, 09:43 feel like you are attacking them. 09:44 I just want to tell you, 09:45 devotional readings are perfectly fine. 09:49 There's nothing wrong with the devotional reading 09:51 because I-- and I don't bring my scholarship to church 09:55 or to class of people who are doing devotional studies. 10:00 Devotional study is when you sit down with the word 10:03 and you lay yourself before God 10:04 and say, God, what do You want to say to me today? Okay. 10:09 And the Holy Spirit can use any turn of phrase in the Bible 10:12 to say something to me that I need to hear. 10:16 The problem is when the only things 10:20 we get out of the Bible are devotional readings, 10:23 we tend to end up in the same place all the time. 10:26 In another words we only learn from the Bible 10:27 what we already know. 10:29 The beauty of an exegetical reading 10:31 like we've been doing together here 10:33 is that the Bible takes you where it wants to go, you see. 10:38 You are not limited to what you knew before 10:40 but you can learn new things from the Bible 10:42 because the exegetical approach 10:44 points you to things that you didn't see before. 10:46 And when we realize that the vine and the branches 10:49 actually had a different use originally, 10:52 it gives us an added understanding that is helpful. 10:56 And it's applicable if I read the verse, 10:58 you know, if I abide in Christ then, 11:01 you know, I am the branch, He is the vine. 11:04 Without Christ I personally can do nothing. Right. 11:07 And that would still be applicable to me. 11:10 And then the fruits would be like the fruits of the spirit. 11:12 If you stay close to Christ then you will be a better person. 11:16 And that's perfectly fine. 11:18 Even if that wasn't Jesus' original intention 11:20 or the disciple's original understanding it works well. 11:24 And God has used that reading very powerfully 11:27 but when we take the second look to this gospel 11:31 that is always taking us 11:32 a little bit different place than we expected. 11:34 We can see that this gives 11:37 a powerful message to the second generation. 11:40 People who didn't have the kind of direct connection with Jesus. 11:44 How do you connect with Jesus? 11:46 To a lot of people you say, "Well, remain in Jesus." 11:50 Okay. What does that mean? 11:53 How do I do that, you know? 11:55 Where is He that I can remain in Him? 11:57 And when people really try to get practical 12:01 it becomes difficult but when you read it 12:04 this way you realize, now, we remain in Jesus 12:07 by connecting to the disciples 12:09 through the words that they left behind. 12:11 We remain in Jesus by studying His words 12:14 and by obeying them, by carrying them out. 12:17 And that's what you see in verses 9 and 10. 12:20 If you would take a look. 12:23 "As the Father loved Me, I have also loved you, 12:26 abide in My love. 12:28 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, 12:31 just as I have kept My Father's commandments 12:34 and abide in His love." 12:36 So Jesus connects to the father in this loving relationship. 12:39 We have a loving relationship with Him 12:42 through hearing His words and obeying what He says. 12:45 So this remaining in Jesus is not something we can do 12:49 like you and I are talking to each other here. 12:51 You know, we can touch each other, right? 12:53 Just like that. Okay. 12:55 I know you are there. This is real. 12:57 I can get my head around this very easily 13:01 but to remain in Jesus, someone I've never seen, 13:03 heard or touched, that's a bit tougher. 13:06 And this gives us a practical idea that 13:09 now we remain in Jesus by staying connected to these words 13:13 so as we study these words, 13:15 as we do it what we are doing right here, 13:16 we are connecting to Jesus in a very real way. 13:19 And the Apostle John even said what we have seen 13:23 and what we have heard this we preach to you. 13:26 So it is that you are saying that its through the testimonies 13:29 of that first generation-- Exactly. 13:31 Who are disciples who did see Jesus, they saw His miracles. 13:36 It is through their testimony 13:38 that we are then the fruit of that testimony. 13:42 Beautifully put. Beautifully-- 13:43 Is that how I understand it? Absolutely. 13:45 See, that's I think exactly what John is saying 13:48 that through this book we are connected 13:50 to the testimony of the disciples 13:52 who had a living, physical, real connection with Jesus. 13:56 And that relationship, our relationship, 13:58 the one we have with Jesus 14:00 and the relationship the disciples had with Jesus 14:03 would still be the same one. 14:04 It's the same in quality but it takes place in a different way. 14:09 We don't have that advantage of having that personal, 14:12 direct physical relationship with Jesus 14:15 instead we relate to Him through the words that are here. 14:20 And through the Holy Spirit, the quality of that relationship 14:23 is as good and often even better 14:25 than the one they could have with Him in the flesh. 14:29 Well, friends we are going to continue on this gospel, 14:32 again we are in Chapter 15, 14:34 so stay with us after this break. |
Revised 2014-12-17