Hello and welcome to another
program of "Books of the Book."
00:00:18.99\00:00:22.92
My name is Deyvy Rodriguez.
00:00:22.95\00:00:24.37
And we are
studying the Gospel of John.
00:00:24.40\00:00:27.10
And with us is Dr. Jon Paulien.
00:00:27.13\00:00:29.54
He is the dean of Religion
in Loma Linda, California.
00:00:29.57\00:00:34.09
Is that right?
00:00:34.12\00:00:35.49
Loma Linda University,
yeah. Loma Linda University.
00:00:35.52\00:00:37.04
Which is in Loma
Linda, California, so.
00:00:37.07\00:00:38.45
Right, okay. Yeah.
00:00:38.48\00:00:40.23
Now you told us before what you
did and tell us briefly again
00:00:40.26\00:00:44.17
what is it that
you do as a dean?
00:00:44.20\00:00:45.83
Yeah, dean of the
School of Religion--
00:00:45.86\00:00:47.96
Loma Linda is
divided into eight schools.
00:00:47.99\00:00:51.08
You have a school of
medicine, school of dentistry,
00:00:51.11\00:00:53.79
school of pharmacy, and so on,
00:00:53.82\00:00:55.93
school of behavioral health,
and then the school of religion,
00:00:55.96\00:01:00.19
and so each of
these has a function
00:01:00.22\00:01:03.43
within the
university as a whole,
00:01:03.46\00:01:05.70
but the School of
Religion has a special function
00:01:05.73\00:01:08.08
'cause we teach
classes and all the programs.
00:01:08.11\00:01:11.40
And so it's my job to
coordinate all of that.
00:01:11.43\00:01:14.26
So all the students
from all the schools
00:01:14.29\00:01:15.92
come to this department?
00:01:15.95\00:01:18.68
Yeah, there expected to
take at least something like,
00:01:18.71\00:01:22.15
8% of their classes in Religion.
00:01:22.18\00:01:24.96
About how many
students do you have for--
00:01:24.99\00:01:29.15
Well, there is-- this year
00:01:29.18\00:01:30.55
there's 4,650
students at Loma Linda.
00:01:30.58\00:01:33.96
And every one of them takes
at least one religion class.
00:01:33.99\00:01:36.68
So we are about
5,000 plus students,
00:01:36.71\00:01:42.34
you know, that that study
00:01:42.37\00:01:43.74
for most in the given year.
00:01:43.77\00:01:45.27
That keeps you very busy?
00:01:45.30\00:01:46.99
Yeah. And in a sense this
is almost like a vacation.
00:01:47.02\00:01:50.21
Yes, good.
Vacation studying the Bible.
00:01:50.24\00:01:53.95
That's right. That's amazing.
00:01:53.98\00:01:55.35
Well, I enjoy doing that.
00:01:55.38\00:01:56.92
The last program we did we
were talking on the prologue.
00:01:56.95\00:02:01.22
And we didn't touch on verse
7, which is gonna talk about
00:02:01.25\00:02:07.12
our verse 6 which talks
about John or John, the Baptist.
00:02:07.15\00:02:11.74
Do you remember
when we talked about
00:02:11.77\00:02:13.54
that we talked
about poetry? Yes.
00:02:13.57\00:02:16.36
Well, as you go
through the prologue,
00:02:16.39\00:02:18.63
most of it is
poetry like language,
00:02:18.66\00:02:22.03
but the parts on
John, the Baptist are not.
00:02:22.06\00:02:25.72
And so we kind
of left those aside,
00:02:25.75\00:02:29.13
but they provide a foundation
for the rest of the chapter 1
00:02:29.16\00:02:32.38
which is what we're
gonna talk about this time.
00:02:32.41\00:02:34.74
Okay. Now you're aware
doesn't say John, the Baptist?
00:02:34.77\00:02:39.27
No. It says,
John. Right. You see.
00:02:39.30\00:02:43.25
So John, the
Baptist this is something,
00:02:43.28\00:02:45.42
yeah, I'm not trying to
offend Baptist or anything,
00:02:45.45\00:02:47.37
but John, the Baptist is a
term we'd given to him because
00:02:47.40\00:02:51.23
John was baptizing people.
00:02:51.26\00:02:53.89
But it's interest to
the author of the book
00:02:53.92\00:02:56.45
who is John never names himself.
00:02:56.48\00:02:59.62
So some people suggested that,
00:02:59.65\00:03:02.63
you know, he is
using this other John
00:03:02.66\00:03:05.26
to kind of drop a hint at least
00:03:05.29\00:03:07.32
of who is
really behind the book.
00:03:07.35\00:03:08.97
Okay. So shall we read?
00:03:09.00\00:03:10.87
Yeah, I think
that'll be a good idea.
00:03:10.90\00:03:13.50
And we are in
the Gospel of John 1
00:03:13.53\00:03:17.02
and verses
starting from verse 6.
00:03:17.05\00:03:20.44
"There was a man sent
from God, whose name was John.
00:03:20.47\00:03:23.61
This man came for a witness,
to bear witness of the Light
00:03:23.64\00:03:27.14
that all through
him might believe.
00:03:27.17\00:03:29.16
He was not that Light,
00:03:29.19\00:03:30.63
but was sent to bear
witness of that Light."
00:03:30.66\00:03:35.32
So here you see
it's talking about John
00:03:35.35\00:03:39.65
and we discover
later on he is the John
00:03:39.68\00:03:42.06
who baptized his people,
not the author of this gospel.
00:03:42.09\00:03:46.64
And he sent from God, so
he is a very, very important.
00:03:46.67\00:03:51.69
And he came to
witness to the light, it says.
00:03:51.72\00:03:55.66
And if you remember in the
first part of the prologue,
00:03:55.69\00:03:58.86
he was the light, you know,
00:03:58.89\00:04:01.37
and the light shown in
the darkness and so far.
00:04:01.40\00:04:04.41
So this referring to Jesus.
00:04:04.44\00:04:06.10
So John has come to
testify concerning that light.
00:04:06.13\00:04:10.64
So his mission was to
come first and get famous,
00:04:10.67\00:04:16.14
so to speak,
and then he withdraw
00:04:16.17\00:04:18.49
people's attention to Jesus,
00:04:18.52\00:04:20.44
that was the fundamental
mission of the Baptist.
00:04:20.47\00:04:24.56
But it says he
was not that light.
00:04:24.59\00:04:29.03
Now, why would
he have to say that?
00:04:29.06\00:04:31.71
You know, are there some
people maybe who think John,
00:04:31.74\00:04:34.86
the Baptist was the true
light, maybe he was the Messiah?
00:04:34.89\00:04:38.42
He was not that light.
00:04:38.45\00:04:40.41
He only came to
witness to the light.
00:04:40.44\00:04:43.95
And you
remember, we talked about
00:04:43.98\00:04:45.35
the chiasm that pyramid?
00:04:45.38\00:04:47.61
Well, there is a
counterpart here in verse 15
00:04:47.64\00:04:50.56
that basically
repeats the same thing.
00:04:50.59\00:04:52.38
So, why don't you read verse 15?
00:04:52.41\00:04:55.61
"John bore witness of
Him and cried out, saying,
00:04:55.64\00:04:58.92
'This was He of whom I
said, He who comes after me
00:04:58.95\00:05:02.01
is preferred before
me, for He was before me.'"
00:05:02.04\00:05:06.88
So here is it interesting.
00:05:06.91\00:05:08.28
John testifies
concerning Jesus and says,
00:05:08.31\00:05:13.11
"He is the one
who comes after me,
00:05:13.14\00:05:17.88
but he has before me."
00:05:17.91\00:05:19.83
It's like a riddle. Right.
00:05:19.86\00:05:21.30
You know, he is after
me, but he is before me.
00:05:21.33\00:05:24.41
Now, does that make
any sense to someone
00:05:24.44\00:05:26.46
who knows the gospel?
00:05:26.49\00:05:29.16
How would that make sense?
00:05:29.19\00:05:30.83
Because Jesus
who came down to us.
00:05:30.86\00:05:34.24
We were here before Jesus.
00:05:34.27\00:05:35.85
Let's say the
people who met Jesus.
00:05:35.88\00:05:38.73
You know, they were there first
00:05:38.76\00:05:40.13
and Jesus shows
up, but He is really
00:05:40.16\00:05:42.23
before because He was
with God from eternity.
00:05:42.26\00:05:45.83
So right at the
beginning of the prologue,
00:05:45.86\00:05:47.64
he is with God for eternity.
00:05:47.67\00:05:49.04
So he is greater, he is before.
00:05:49.07\00:05:51.68
But when he shows up,
he is coming after John.
00:05:51.71\00:05:55.12
Now usually the person
who introduces somebody
00:05:55.15\00:05:59.13
is considered greater
than the one that introducing
00:05:59.16\00:06:02.23
'cause why were they be
introducing that person?
00:06:02.26\00:06:04.55
Nobody knows who this is.
00:06:04.58\00:06:05.95
You know, they know me,
so I'm gonna introduce him,
00:06:05.98\00:06:07.61
I'm the big guy, you know.
00:06:07.64\00:06:09.26
So the role of
introduction is a big role
00:06:09.29\00:06:14.62
for the person who gives it.
00:06:14.65\00:06:16.02
So people could
look at this and well,
00:06:16.05\00:06:17.42
John introduced Jesus, he must
have been the big guy, you see.
00:06:17.45\00:06:20.86
So this is actually locating
00:06:20.89\00:06:26.53
where John is in
the schema things.
00:06:26.56\00:06:29.93
So these verses
here set the table
00:06:29.96\00:06:33.65
for the rest of the chapter.
00:06:33.68\00:06:35.32
And it's gonna tell
us the story of John
00:06:35.35\00:06:38.37
and how he introduced Jesus.
00:06:38.40\00:06:41.25
Now John, John, the Baptist
00:06:41.28\00:06:43.81
and when we say
John, the Baptist
00:06:43.84\00:06:45.36
even though, does it--
00:06:45.39\00:06:46.76
It's comfortable for
us, so let's do it, yeah.
00:06:46.79\00:06:48.17
It's okay?
Yeah. All right. Yeah.
00:06:48.20\00:06:50.03
So this John, the Baptist then,
00:06:50.06\00:06:51.59
what was his role and how
did he testify of that light?
00:06:51.62\00:06:57.01
Well, that gets elaborated
starting with verse 19
00:06:57.05\00:07:00.68
and the rest of the
chapter goes through verse 51,
00:07:00.71\00:07:03.73
and most of it is
about John, the Baptist.
00:07:03.76\00:07:06.92
Okay. Yeah.
00:07:06.95\00:07:08.32
So why don't you take
a look at verses 19-23?
00:07:08.35\00:07:12.29
"Now this is the
testimony of John,
00:07:12.32\00:07:14.71
when the Jews sent
priests and Levites
00:07:14.74\00:07:16.73
from Jerusalem to
ask him, 'Who are you?'
00:07:16.76\00:07:19.69
He confessed, and did
not deny, but confessed,
00:07:19.72\00:07:22.80
'I am not the Christ.'
00:07:22.83\00:07:24.82
And they asked him,
'What then? Are you Elijah?'
00:07:24.85\00:07:28.98
He said, 'I am not.'
'Are you the Prophet?'
00:07:29.01\00:07:31.95
And he answered, 'No.'
00:07:31.98\00:07:34.25
Then they said to him,
00:07:34.28\00:07:35.75
'Who are you, that
we may give an answer
00:07:35.78\00:07:38.51
to those who sent us?
00:07:38.54\00:07:40.55
What do you say about yourself?'
00:07:40.58\00:07:44.22
He said, 'I am the voice of
one crying in the wilderness,
00:07:44.25\00:07:47.97
make straight the
way of the Lord.'"
00:07:48.00\00:07:51.37
Now, you know,
it's a pattern in here?
00:07:51.40\00:07:54.20
What is he repeatedly doing?
00:07:54.23\00:07:56.64
He is saying, "No."
00:07:56.67\00:08:00.03
I'm not this. I'm not that--
00:08:00.06\00:08:01.65
He is denying. I'm
not the other thing.
00:08:01.68\00:08:03.20
He is denying.
00:08:03.23\00:08:04.60
What did he say back in verse 7?
00:08:04.63\00:08:06.34
I think it was, he
was not that light.
00:08:06.37\00:08:10.25
So the big story about
John, the Baptist in the gospel.
00:08:10.28\00:08:14.78
John is not.
00:08:14.81\00:08:17.82
He's constantly
saying, he is not this,
00:08:17.85\00:08:19.69
he is not that, he is not that.
00:08:19.72\00:08:22.26
Why would that
even be necessary?
00:08:22.29\00:08:25.06
Unless, somebody that
the author of this gospel
00:08:25.09\00:08:29.22
is dealing with a seeing John,
00:08:29.25\00:08:30.89
the Baptist does
really, really significant.
00:08:30.92\00:08:33.90
And so that's
something we'll come back
00:08:33.93\00:08:36.18
to a little bit
later in this program.
00:08:36.21\00:08:39.31
But you see
whenever John appears,
00:08:39.34\00:08:42.98
he is lowering himself.
00:08:43.01\00:08:45.18
"Are you the Messiah?
00:08:45.21\00:08:47.05
No. Are you Elijah? No.
00:08:47.08\00:08:49.49
Are you the Prophet? No.
00:08:49.52\00:08:50.89
Well, who are you
for cried out loud.
00:08:50.92\00:08:52.95
Say something." So
John is constantly did.
00:08:52.98\00:08:57.85
I know this is a
real story that happened,
00:08:57.88\00:09:02.10
but John has to tell the story
00:09:02.13\00:09:04.31
because evidently some
people or maybe putting
00:09:04.34\00:09:08.61
John in too higher place.
00:09:08.64\00:09:10.92
In the Wedding of Cana
story, Jesus sort of puts
00:09:10.95\00:09:16.21
His mother in her place.
00:09:16.24\00:09:19.92
Why would that need to be told?
00:09:19.95\00:09:22.29
You know, that's a little detail
00:09:22.32\00:09:23.69
couldn't just of left that out
00:09:23.72\00:09:25.09
and just told the
story without that.
00:09:25.12\00:09:27.50
Well, it would seem from
what we know of ancient times
00:09:27.53\00:09:30.90
that Mary started
getting put a little too high.
00:09:30.93\00:09:34.52
The people were seeing
Mary as equal with Jesus
00:09:34.55\00:09:37.12
or even greater that Jesus.
00:09:37.15\00:09:38.81
And so in the Gospel of
John, Mary is kind of, you know,
00:09:38.84\00:09:43.92
she is honored, but she
is in a subordinate position.
00:09:43.95\00:09:47.79
Jesus is the one
that tells her what to do.
00:09:47.82\00:09:50.34
She is trying to
tell Him what to do.
00:09:50.37\00:09:51.79
No, no, Jesus is the one
who tells Mary what to do.
00:09:51.82\00:09:56.82
So, you know, there
is a major commentary
00:09:56.85\00:10:00.06
on John by a Catholic
priest makes that point,
00:10:00.09\00:10:02.59
you know, which you might think
00:10:02.62\00:10:03.99
it's surprising, but
he is simply being honest
00:10:04.02\00:10:06.34
with the text, you know.
00:10:06.37\00:10:08.19
John wants to be clear.
00:10:08.22\00:10:09.59
No one is greater than Jesus,
not the Baptist, not Mary,
00:10:09.62\00:10:12.90
not the temple,
not Moses, you see,
00:10:12.93\00:10:15.32
all the other competitors are,
you know, Jesus is better than.
00:10:15.35\00:10:21.16
You know, Moses is
good, Jesus is better.
00:10:21.19\00:10:23.51
Temple is good, Jesus is better.
00:10:23.54\00:10:26.08
Baptist is good,
Jesus is better, you see.
00:10:26.11\00:10:29.18
He is truly the greatest.
00:10:29.21\00:10:31.45
That's the message
that comes through here.
00:10:31.48\00:10:33.36
And those people who
either sent him or asked John
00:10:33.39\00:10:37.93
these questions
they-- did they believe
00:10:37.96\00:10:40.23
or somehow have this
idea that he was that light?
00:10:40.26\00:10:44.98
That's the
impression we get, you know.
00:10:45.01\00:10:46.99
When you study
this book carefully,
00:10:47.02\00:10:48.92
that apparently
they were some people
00:10:48.96\00:10:51.43
who didn't get the memo.
00:10:51.46\00:10:53.44
You know, what's being
described in this book.
00:10:53.47\00:10:56.91
And John's purpose for existence
00:10:56.94\00:11:00.43
was to pointing
Jesus out when He comes.
00:11:00.46\00:11:03.88
But they were some that's saw
00:11:03.91\00:11:05.40
the ministry of
John as ultimate,
00:11:05.43\00:11:08.03
the greatest of
the prophets, you see.
00:11:08.06\00:11:10.86
And Jesus even called
him that at one place.
00:11:10.89\00:11:13.76
Among all the prophets,
there is none greater than John.
00:11:13.79\00:11:16.76
You know, that he is really
right there at the pinnacle.
00:11:16.79\00:11:20.86
So evidently
there were some people
00:11:20.89\00:11:24.43
who saw John as the real deal
00:11:24.46\00:11:28.60
and never really got
too excited about Jesus.
00:11:28.63\00:11:31.40
And so here it's
clarifying that roll.
00:11:31.43\00:11:35.25
So let's go on to
verse, let's see 24-28.
00:11:35.28\00:11:41.06
"Now those who were
sent were from the Pharisees.
00:11:41.09\00:11:43.92
And they asked him,
saying, 'Why then do you baptize
00:11:43.95\00:11:47.10
if you are not the Christ,
nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?'
00:11:47.13\00:11:51.04
John answered them, saying,
00:11:51.07\00:11:52.46
'I baptize with
water, but there stands
00:11:52.50\00:11:54.91
One among you
whom you do not know.
00:11:54.94\00:11:58.28
It is He who, coming after
me, is preferred before me,
00:11:58.31\00:12:02.15
whose sandal strap I
am not worthy to loose.'
00:12:02.18\00:12:05.85
These things were done in
Bethabara beyond the Jordan,
00:12:05.88\00:12:09.75
where John was baptizing."
00:12:09.78\00:12:12.47
Here's another
amazing statement, you know.
00:12:12.50\00:12:16.05
Why are you
baptizing if you're not Christ
00:12:16.08\00:12:18.10
or Elijah or the Prophet?
00:12:18.13\00:12:19.50
And he says, "Well, because
00:12:19.53\00:12:20.90
somebody greater
is coming after me."
00:12:20.93\00:12:22.57
And notice what it
says, in my translation,
00:12:22.60\00:12:24.80
"The thongs of whose sandal
00:12:24.83\00:12:27.57
I am not worthy to untie."
00:12:27.60\00:12:31.62
In those days, it
was great to be a scholar
00:12:31.65\00:12:33.87
'cause your students not
only sat in your classes,
00:12:33.90\00:12:36.37
they were supposed to
wait on your hand and foot,
00:12:36.40\00:12:38.23
you know, wash
your car, mow your lawn,
00:12:38.26\00:12:40.14
you know, do all that
kind of stuff, you see.
00:12:40.17\00:12:43.33
But there was one thing
that student was not required
00:12:43.36\00:12:45.66
to do for his
teacher and that's the,
00:12:45.69\00:12:47.48
you know, take
your shoes on and off,
00:12:47.51\00:12:48.96
that was start
to be too demeaning,
00:12:48.99\00:12:51.52
the act of a slave. Yeah.
00:12:51.55\00:12:53.27
And here John is saying.
00:12:53.30\00:12:55.73
This one that is
coming is so great.
00:12:55.76\00:12:57.84
I'm not worthy even
to put a shoes on or off.
00:12:57.87\00:13:01.46
The actions of a
slave would be too great
00:13:01.49\00:13:05.82
for me to even consider.
00:13:05.85\00:13:07.47
He is really putting himself
down and it makes you wonder.
00:13:07.50\00:13:11.41
What is going on
behind the scenes here?
00:13:11.44\00:13:14.67
Remember that in
verse 23, I think it was.
00:13:14.70\00:13:18.38
John is actually
saying that I came to prepare
00:13:18.41\00:13:23.17
the way of the Lord.
00:13:23.20\00:13:25.33
It's from Isaiah.
00:13:25.36\00:13:26.73
If you go back to Isaiah,
it's the word the way of Yahweh.
00:13:26.76\00:13:30.38
So there is the hint right there
that this is not just a messiah,
00:13:30.41\00:13:34.06
this is not just
a great human being.
00:13:34.09\00:13:36.64
God Himself is coming
and John is introducing God.
00:13:36.67\00:13:41.26
And if He
understands that what we saw
00:13:41.29\00:13:43.49
in the prologue than yeah,
00:13:43.52\00:13:45.59
he wouldn't even
want to untie the sandals.
00:13:45.62\00:13:47.95
This person is so
great, but he walks among us.
00:13:47.98\00:13:52.55
It tells you
something about God.
00:13:52.58\00:13:56.04
Well, friends, we are
studying the Gospel of John,
00:13:56.07\00:13:58.63
and this is very exciting.
00:13:58.66\00:14:00.03
So continue to be
with us after this break.
00:14:00.06\00:14:02.06