Hello I Stan Hudson speaker
for In the Beginning and today
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we look at a very
important topic, Noah's flood.
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In the beginning there was water
Did that flood really happen?
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We'll show you the science, in
Scripture, and support for it.
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I hope you enjoy.
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Hello everybody!
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We are glad you are here.
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Look at these folks, this
is number six out of seven.
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We just have one more
meeting after this evening and
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we appreciate very much
your giving of your time to come
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out and listen to these things.
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I think perhaps we have a
little bit of a soul mate thing
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going here because these
are some subjects that are
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interesting to
you as they are to me.
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These are the great questions
that we are looking at.
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In the Beginning.
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Tonight we are going to look
at In The Beginning, of course
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with a hint as to the flood,
in the beginning there was
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water, and everybody
agrees there was water.
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Whether you believe in
billions of years, or thousands,
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or any thing in between,
everyone agrees that water was
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significant in the early world.
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And Genesis also
agrees. Genesis 1:2
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There was waters
in the beginning.
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Now remember we talked briefly
before about the spiritual
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or moral conditions of the
world that led up to the flood.
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It was a significant change,
something that caused God to be
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so drastic in His actions
as to literally reverse the
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creation, that He did, to
send the world back to a void,
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and without form, watery place.
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He literally
turn the clock back.
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So let's take a look again at
the condition that led to that.
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So God unfortunately
had to start over again.
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When we talk about Noah's flood,
almost everybody, it seems like,
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considers it to be something
of a fairytale, or a myth.
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Pictures like this probably
don't help, but many people
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think of it as a fun story,
a child's story and maybe tell
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children but they certainly
can't see anything serious or
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anything support of it
really having happened.
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Well you will probably hear
a little bit on the other side
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of that tonight as
we take a look at this.
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Of course when you talk
about the search for Noah's Ark
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everybody wonders
about this kind of thing.
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Have they ever found Noah's Ark?
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They have certainly
looked for Noah's ark.
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There has been a lot of
antidotal stories about people
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who supposedly have not
only seen it, but in a couple
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of cases walked
around inside of it.
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So there are these stories
that seem to abound and there
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is a bit of a legend that
grows over whether or not they
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have found Noah's Ark.
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The biblical account, if
you recall in the Hebrew, the
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biblical account is that the
Ark set down in the mountains,
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plural, of Ararat so it was
really talking about a region
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where it came down, not
necessarily the specific
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mountain itself.
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But it gets pretty
sensational when people are
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looking for Noah's Ark.
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There we go, found on Mars.
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I knew it was
somewhere, and there it is.
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Well let's take a look at it
a little more serious evidence.
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Now one of the things that
has pushed legend a bit and
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sensationalized it, is
occasionally a picture that
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looks very intriguing, some
thing like this as you can see.
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This elongated formation
of some kind, snow-covered
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somewhat and people look
at things like that and say is
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is that a boat? What is
that sticking out there?
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There are these kind
of pictures that exist.
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If you hit Noah's Ark on
the Internet the search engine
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will pull up a lot of stuff.
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There will be a lot of stories.
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One of the things that helped
with the image of this great
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hunt for something very rare
and interesting, was the fact
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that Mount Ararat is
on the border between
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Turkey and Russia.
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If you are familiar with a
little history of the Cold War,
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anyone walking around on
the top of Mount Ararat were in
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the gun sights of the
Russians soldiers on the border.
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So there was a sensitivity
about how many people the Turks
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would allow to go up and
take a look for Noah's Ark
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and any expedition
because they didn't want to
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stir up things
with their neighbor.
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For years it was virtually
impossible to get permission to
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go look at that helps push
any legend about what may be up
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there, I wish we could go look.
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Well now things have
changed and people can go look.
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Actually Mount Ararat, the
area of it, is quite pretty.
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This is the main
mountain and there are other
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mountains in the area.
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Take a look at
some of these pictures.
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For instance here is an
interesting rock formation that
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certainly would look like
maybe a boat from the air.
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But when they look at it up
close it doesn't appear to be
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anything other than an
interesting rock formation.
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There are other formations,
places in this area do have
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things that looked interesting
should there be snow on it
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it may be intriguing and
perhaps from a distance look
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like it had some potential.
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So there is no question that
some of the rock formations in
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the area almost look like
boats, or boat like objects.
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Yet when we go we
haven't found the boat.
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That is important because
if you think about the ancient
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people and typically when they
had a chance to use materials
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from a pre-existing building
or anything, they would.
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For instance, have you ever
seen pictures that like Roman
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or Greek settlements, what
are usually left are the pillars
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and the Arches of old buildings.
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Everything else
seems to be gone.
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Notice all those
pillars and arches?
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Why are there only
pillars and arches?
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Because the ancient
folks believed in recycling.
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They recycled
stones there were useful.
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If you think about it,
after the flood if there was a
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flood, a worldwide flood
and everything was destroyed,
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and resources were few and
far between it is very likely
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that they took apart much
of the Ark just to use the wood
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and building or whatever.
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It is very possible, it is
typical of the ancient folks.
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So there may not
be of much up there.
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When we talk about the
ancient stories of the flood,
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it is not unusual for people
to say, and scholars to say,
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you see the Genesis account
is simply a Jewish version of
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a Babylonian
story, the Gilgamesh epic.
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They will say that because
the Gilgamesh epic which was
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discovered and found
on these tablets in Cana
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formed tablets coming
from Mesopotamia and Samaria,
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in that area, record a
flood story with Utnapishtim
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and Gilgamesh and key characters
involving a worldwide flood.
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The gods were angry and
flooded the world and so forth.
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It sounds so similar, a
lot of the parts of the stories
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are similar to
the Genesis account.
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Because it was written
down at a very early time many
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people have said the Genesis
account is a Hebrew-ized version
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of a legend that came
from a Babylonian time.
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That is a typical thing.
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Whereas we may say, the
creationists might say, and that
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was one version or a
recollection of the Babylonians
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recalling the same
event but with their take.
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Their embellishment shall
we say, the Gilgamesh epic is
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rather famous but let's
talk about flood stories.
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Remember I hinted, and I think
based on a couple questions
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I got back that a may have
hit a chord with some of you
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when I mentioned the Dragon
stories may be evidence of human
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and dinosaur coexistence since
they are worldwide pretty much.
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Well there is only thing
that is more worldwide and
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I found it among multi-cultures
of ancient memories and
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that is flood stories.
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Flood stories seem to
be in just about every
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corner of the world.
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Let me give you a
little bit of a quick scan,
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a quick survey of some
of the stories in the world.
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We start with the
Hebrew, or the biblical account.
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Let's take a look at what other
cultures had flood stories.
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The Babylonians, the Egyptians,
and Persians, the Assyrians.
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there is a Islamic version
as well of a flood story.
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When you go to Europe you
see the Romans, Greeks have even
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dated the flood pretty close to
the period the Jewish Bible has.
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The Romans, Scandinavians, the
Celtic's all had flood stories.
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Let's keep going, Africa, the
Nigerian's, Congan's, pygmies,
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the Tanzanians all
have flood stories.
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When you go to Asia you see
eastern Russia, Mongolia, Korea,
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the Philippines, there's
a Hindu version, a Siberian,
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Chinese, Tibetan all have
flood stories in their memories.
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Let's keep going, let's
keep going to the South pacific.
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Australia, Fiji, Tahitians,
Maoriane's and you can see right
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on down the line.
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Let's go to the Americas,
Central America the ancient
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Mayans, the Toltec's,
the Incas had stories.
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More in the north we have
the Navajo, Hopi, the Cherokee,
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the Blackfoot, you can see
all these different way up to
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the Eskimos,
Algonquin's have flood stories.
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Since we are presenting
this story near Spokane,
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I thought we would mention
that even the Spokane Indian
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tribe, and I'm not talking
about baseball, has a flood
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story in their ancient memory.
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So flood stories abound from
all around the world, in every
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corner and there are these
ancient memories fairly similar.
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It would be something like this.
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The familiar or similar parts
are the gods were angry with
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mankind, the world and so they
destroy the world with a flood
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and there are survivors that
are on a log, a boat, or a raft
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and somehow make it
through and from those people
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that repopulate the world.
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These stories are found
in every culture in virtually
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every language, so again
it makes it seem like there's
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something to it.
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Even the American Museum
of Smithsonian Institute in
00:10:56.23\00:10:58.28
Washington DC, a fairly
new museum, wonderful museum.
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I had an opportunity to go
there a couple of years ago and
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walk up to the top and
start looking at these beautiful
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displays of native Americans
on display starting with the
00:11:06.77\00:11:12.83
oldest things at the top
and working around and you can
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see the way it goes down.
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While I was up there I leaned
in to hear what one of the
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native American guides
was saying to a group there,
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to hear her talk to
the group about some of the
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things in the case.
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She turned and looked to
the group and said, you know my
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people have a flood
story in their background.
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And she looked at them
and said, you guys do to,
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maybe there is something to it.
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I had to chuckle, but
then I pulled myself away.
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It is interesting how many
cultures there are that have
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flood stories and that is
a significant thing they all
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seem to recall
something way back when.
00:11:52.49\00:11:55.63
Well the Bible seems to indicate
that what happened, whatever
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started the flood, broke forth
all the fountains of the deep.
00:11:59.88\00:12:04.28
It is a word. It is
a terminology that can
00:12:04.31\00:12:06.70
mean more than water,
the fountains of the deep.
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So somehow or other there was
a great catastrophe that tore
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up the crust of the
earth and caused there to be
00:12:13.56\00:12:16.55
water covering everything.
00:12:16.58\00:12:18.29
This was the standard
understanding for centuries on
00:12:18.32\00:12:21.73
how the planet
looked the way it did.
00:12:21.76\00:12:23.87
All the fantastic geological
structures and the crust of the
00:12:23.90\00:12:28.20
Earth was attributed to what
we would call catastrophism.
00:12:28.23\00:12:32.88
A catastrophist view of
the history of the earth.
00:12:32.91\00:12:36.17
In other words what we see
in the crust are especially
00:12:36.20\00:12:39.61
caused by great
events in the past.
00:12:39.64\00:12:42.00
And then things changed again,
as we talked about, in the
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flow of thinking, in the
scientific world especially,
00:12:46.24\00:12:49.78
with the rise of
secular humanism.
00:12:49.81\00:12:52.02
This is Oxford and
Cambridge in England.
00:12:52.05\00:12:55.11
The decline of Christianity
in the rise of secular humanism.
00:12:55.14\00:12:58.44
Change thinking about a
lot of things and including the
00:12:58.47\00:13:02.02
interpretation of
the Earth's crust.
00:13:02.05\00:13:04.13
So along came James Hutton,
the father of modern geology.
00:13:04.16\00:13:09.83
By very gradual processes.
00:13:15.98\00:13:19.27
The things we see now are
things that have happened in the
00:13:19.30\00:13:21.43
past and there hasn't been
any great catastrophe to speak
00:13:21.46\00:13:24.46
of, pretty much everything
has gradually been made.
00:13:24.49\00:13:27.54
If you look at the Grand Canyon,
with James Hutton's view,
00:13:27.57\00:13:31.25
you would be looking at the
end where it comes out at Baja
00:13:31.28\00:13:35.69
California where the
Colorado comes and you would be
00:13:35.72\00:13:39.19
measuring how much dirt
and how much material comes out
00:13:39.22\00:13:41.64
and roll the clock back and
they would tell you how long
00:13:41.67\00:13:46.08
that has been
carving out the Grand Canyon.
00:13:46.11\00:13:48.75
That is a Uniformitarian
model of how to figure out
00:13:48.78\00:13:51.92
what has taken place
in the past of the earth.
00:13:51.95\00:13:55.60
And given the context,
Hutton was especially saying,
00:13:55.63\00:13:59.86
No to the
Bible, no to the Bible.
00:13:59.89\00:14:02.52
He had to resist the
older theories there.
00:14:02.55\00:14:06.26
Watch and see what is
going on now and you will
00:14:15.27\00:14:18.35
understand what has gone
in the past, that is the view.
00:14:18.38\00:14:20.37
Now enters a UW
dub, James Harlan Bretz.
00:14:30.04\00:14:39.44
We are talking
now about the 1920s.
00:14:39.47\00:14:41.96
As a young man he
studied some of the scab lands,
00:14:41.99\00:14:46.68
the Missoula scab lands,
from Missoula Montana all
00:14:46.71\00:14:50.63
the way through the
Columbia River basin.
00:14:50.66\00:14:53.24
When he was studying he
was looking in particular
00:14:53.27\00:14:55.64
Dry Falls up in the Coulee area.
00:14:55.67\00:14:58.74
You look at this and
obviously it was some kind of a
00:14:58.77\00:15:03.20
waterfall in the
past and that was easy.
00:15:03.23\00:15:05.40
There is hardly any water
there now, the area is all
00:15:05.43\00:15:07.35
deserty now and so he
began to look at this and study
00:15:07.38\00:15:11.46
what he thought were, when
you go to Missoula Montana you
00:15:11.49\00:15:15.54
look at the hills above Missoula
and see what it looks like.
00:15:15.57\00:15:18.87
With a little imagination
it looks like shorelines with
00:15:18.90\00:15:22.07
little bit of indentations
water may have caused
00:15:22.10\00:15:25.15
marks in the hills there.
00:15:25.18\00:15:26.53
So he began to put
together a theory in the 1920s.
00:15:26.56\00:15:32.05
He has suggested that
some of the hills in the area
00:15:32.08\00:15:34.78
including even the Columbia
River basin was caused by
00:15:34.81\00:15:38.46
some kind of flood, a
great catastrophe where
00:15:38.49\00:15:42.09
water came shooting out there.
00:15:42.12\00:15:43.95
Well let's just say that he was
resisted very strongly in the
00:15:43.98\00:15:50.03
scientific community because it
was against Uniformitarianism.
00:15:50.06\00:15:53.71
Uniformitarianism was
the philosophy of the day.
00:15:53.74\00:15:57.42
It took him 40 years, 40
years of proving and trying to
00:15:57.45\00:16:02.72
prove his theory to where
finally they admitted there was
00:16:02.75\00:16:05.94
something to it and what
actually took place was some
00:16:05.97\00:16:09.34
kind of ice dam, we would call
this the ice age and yes the
00:16:09.37\00:16:12.90
flood story the creationist
believe in accounts for an
00:16:12.93\00:16:16.07
ice age as well.
00:16:16.10\00:16:17.43
A much shorter and more recent
one, but still an ice age.
00:16:17.46\00:16:20.05
An ice age that included an
ice sheet that came down and
00:16:20.08\00:16:24.33
blocked a significant river
coming out of Missoula area
00:16:24.36\00:16:28.34
and backed water up.
00:16:28.37\00:16:29.95
So much water in volume
that it was the size in terms of
00:16:29.98\00:16:33.47
volume like one
of the Great Lakes.
00:16:33.50\00:16:35.64
It was like Michigan or Erie,
that much water and it broke
00:16:35.67\00:16:39.13
through and emptied out
in a matter of a day or two.
00:16:39.16\00:16:41.58
If you could imagine the
amount of water coming through
00:16:41.61\00:16:44.35
there, I have seen like 65
miles an hour and cubic miles
00:16:44.38\00:16:49.11
of water per hour.
00:16:49.14\00:16:50.63
The amount of water that
came through there was anywhere
00:16:50.66\00:16:53.14
from one times to 10 times the
flow of all rivers in the world.
00:16:53.17\00:16:58.55
At one time, flowing out
there so you can imagine the
00:16:58.58\00:17:02.29
amount of water
coming through there.
00:17:02.32\00:17:03.72
Take a look at the Columbia
River basin and you can see
00:17:03.75\00:17:06.74
that maybe that indeed happened.
00:17:06.77\00:17:08.80
It took 40 years for his
theory to be accepted and now
00:17:08.83\00:17:13.69
they have looked at this
and study this and believe there
00:17:13.72\00:17:15.95
has been a number
of floods in the areas,
00:17:15.98\00:17:18.09
actually repeated
floods and so forth.
00:17:18.12\00:17:20.19
There is
evidence of more than one.
00:17:20.22\00:17:22.62
I have lived in
Spokane Valley for a few years.
00:17:22.65\00:17:24.95
I live up the side of the
hill maybe 100 feet above the
00:17:24.98\00:17:28.16
general area there.
00:17:28.19\00:17:29.75
Up in our yard there is
all kinds of round river washed
00:17:29.78\00:17:33.10
rocks there that most
certainly were from this event.
00:17:33.13\00:17:36.75
Washed through the area because
it came right through Spokane.
00:17:36.78\00:17:39.92
So this is interesting, it
was a catastrophe that could
00:17:39.95\00:17:44.77
explain much of what we are
seeing in the geologic column.
00:17:44.80\00:17:48.62
That was news that some
things could be explained better
00:17:48.65\00:17:52.85
by a catastrophe
then Uniformitarianism.
00:17:52.88\00:17:55.86
Does that make sense? In
other words it was a key event
00:17:55.89\00:17:58.28
in recent geology and
geologic interpretation.
00:17:58.31\00:18:02.44
What J. Harlan Bretz said,
the man lived into his 90s and
00:18:02.47\00:18:05.99
died here about 10 years
ago, what he did say was maybe
00:18:06.02\00:18:09.39
now we ought to
look at the Grand Canyon
00:18:09.42\00:18:12.70
in a different way.
00:18:12.73\00:18:14.63
That is an interesting
feature and a number of people
00:18:14.66\00:18:18.27
have speculated that the
Grand Canyon appears to be
00:18:18.30\00:18:20.90
something caused more from
a single drainage event then
00:18:20.93\00:18:26.68
millions of years of a
single river down at the bottom.
00:18:26.71\00:18:30.63
If we had time we would talk
about some of the interesting
00:18:30.66\00:18:33.91
technical features of
that, but we cannot talk in the
00:18:33.94\00:18:37.11
Northwest about catastrophes
without spending a little
00:18:37.14\00:18:39.51
time on Mount Saint Helens.
00:18:39.54\00:18:41.60
And looking at this group,
I'm going to get mixed answers
00:18:41.63\00:18:44.66
on this question.
00:18:44.69\00:18:46.17
Where were you 18 May, 1980?
00:18:46.20\00:18:52.04
Some of you weren't even
sparkles in your mothers eyes
00:18:52.07\00:18:54.91
yet, but many of
you may recall that day.
00:18:54.94\00:18:58.77
Up in the North West you
will remember where you were.
00:18:58.80\00:19:01.35
What happened of
course is very well known.
00:19:04.35\00:19:07.33
1300 feet of the summit of
Mount Saint Helens was blown
00:19:07.36\00:19:11.32
sideways off of
it toward the north.
00:19:11.35\00:19:14.17
The North side just heaved
off and slid down the side.
00:19:14.20\00:19:17.43
Of course there
was 57 people killed.
00:19:17.46\00:19:19.97
It was the largest volcanic
disaster in American history
00:19:20.00\00:19:24.27
anyway and very dramatic.
00:19:24.30\00:19:26.79
All the amounts of material,
200 square miles of trees
00:19:26.82\00:19:31.90
were flattened or carried
away by mud and so forth.
00:19:31.93\00:19:35.85
It was an incredible time.
00:19:35.88\00:19:38.67
Just blown off the
stumps and cleaned off the bark.
00:19:38.70\00:19:42.89
What became of it, a lot
of things came in term of
00:19:42.92\00:19:46.45
the study of this
great catastrophe.
00:19:46.48\00:19:48.81
Naturally a number of people
were interested to see how
00:19:48.84\00:19:50.82
it affected just the geography
of the area, the geology
00:19:50.85\00:19:54.53
of the area and of course
Mount Saint Helens is a heaven
00:19:54.56\00:19:57.51
for geologists, there are
so many interesting things
00:19:57.54\00:20:00.68
to look at there.
00:20:00.71\00:20:02.21
You see two divers
here in Spirit Lake.
00:20:02.24\00:20:05.41
They are dare I say, creationist
scientist who had some
00:20:05.44\00:20:10.67
questions and they were
allowed to come in and study
00:20:10.70\00:20:12.83
in this area.
00:20:12.86\00:20:14.60
They came in and studied
the logs that were floating in
00:20:14.63\00:20:18.02
Spirit Lake because it was
much higher now, the elevation
00:20:18.05\00:20:20.94
because it was filled with
so much debris on the bottom.
00:20:20.97\00:20:23.65
Many of the logs were
floating here and they watched
00:20:23.68\00:20:25.85
and studied these logs and
noticed that after a period of
00:20:25.88\00:20:29.66
time the heavier root part
of the logs were more dense and
00:20:29.69\00:20:37.80
tended to water log this way
and started floating with the
00:20:37.83\00:20:43.38
base down until eventually
they watered logged so much they
00:20:43.41\00:20:47.63
would sink slowly down into
the base of the lake and the
00:20:47.66\00:20:51.70
sentiment was still coming
in so they were literally being
00:20:51.73\00:20:54.38
filled up in place like this.
00:20:54.41\00:20:56.83
Well you might
think okay, so what?
00:20:56.86\00:21:00.38
What is interesting about
that is it gave them a whole
00:21:00.41\00:21:04.42
new interpretation of
the petrified Forest in
00:21:04.45\00:21:06.81
Yellowstone National Park.
00:21:06.84\00:21:08.62
There are two places, Specimen
Creek and Specimen Ridge,
00:21:08.65\00:21:11.49
both are sizable hikes.
00:21:11.52\00:21:13.71
You can get way up there
and see these places where these
00:21:13.74\00:21:17.00
trees, these petrified
trees are standing in place.
00:21:17.03\00:21:20.89
If you look up the side of
the hill you can actually see
00:21:20.92\00:21:24.30
several of them in different
layers up the side of the
00:21:24.33\00:21:26.78
hill and you wonder.
00:21:26.81\00:21:28.64
There are signs in the Park
that says here is evidence of
00:21:28.67\00:21:32.86
millions of years, look at this.
00:21:32.89\00:21:34.59
You have a tree
growing there and it is covered
00:21:34.62\00:21:37.05
up and petrified.
00:21:37.08\00:21:38.74
There is another layer appear
in you having other tree and
00:21:38.77\00:21:41.04
it is petrified in
place and so forth.
00:21:41.07\00:21:43.15
And it goes on so on and so
forth and it looks like millions
00:21:43.18\00:21:45.91
of years, I mean that
would be the imagination.
00:21:45.94\00:21:47.72
But now the same scientists
asked permission to dig around
00:21:47.75\00:21:50.83
some of these trees.
00:21:50.86\00:21:52.66
So they dug around the roots
expecting to find roots and
00:21:52.69\00:21:55.33
there is actually no root
systems underneath these trees.
00:21:55.36\00:21:58.59
They are not growing in place.
00:21:58.62\00:22:00.10
They were not petrified
where they were growing and so
00:22:00.13\00:22:03.02
suddenly they must've been
transported there like that.
00:22:03.05\00:22:08.12
They looked at Mount Saint
Helens and said okay what we
00:22:08.15\00:22:11.22
are looking at in Yellowstone
is a single great event
00:22:11.25\00:22:14.58
not unlike Mount Saint
Helens, it is only multiplied
00:22:14.61\00:22:17.68
many times and that ought
to give you some imagination.
00:22:17.71\00:22:21.74
If you have ever seen the
map of Yellowstone you know
00:22:21.77\00:22:25.20
that the Yellowstone
Caldera is actually quite huge.
00:22:25.23\00:22:29.14
It is many miles across
the volcanic mouth basically
00:22:29.17\00:22:34.15
of all that is
going on in Yellowstone.
00:22:34.18\00:22:36.18
It is huge, so whatever
happened in Yellowstone in times
00:22:36.21\00:22:40.03
past was catastrophic.
00:22:40.06\00:22:42.40
There was water present at
these trees floated and sunk
00:22:42.43\00:22:47.15
just like Mount Saint Helens.
00:22:47.18\00:22:48.98
One time I had a chance it
one of the gift shops there,
00:22:49.01\00:22:53.04
I was listening to a video
and they were talking about
00:22:53.07\00:22:57.53
their petrified forests.
00:22:57.56\00:22:59.39
I thought I wanted to see
with the latest was on that.
00:22:59.42\00:23:01.71
Sure enough they said
they were given credit to
00:23:01.74\00:23:04.33
Mount Saint Helens explaining
how this petrified Forest
00:23:04.36\00:23:07.87
was put in place.
00:23:07.90\00:23:09.29
So they are changing
their views and it is partly
00:23:09.32\00:23:12.23
because creationists scientist
have an open-mindedness
00:23:12.26\00:23:16.90
to put catastrophic features
in the Earth's crust and asked
00:23:16.93\00:23:20.32
different questions than
evolutionary scientists when
00:23:20.35\00:23:23.61
they look at the same data.
00:23:23.64\00:23:24.94
They wonder could this be
explained by catastrophe and
00:23:24.97\00:23:27.40
they approach it that
way and find out things that
00:23:27.43\00:23:30.37
perhaps might not have
been found out otherwise.
00:23:30.40\00:23:32.43
It depends upon the
glasses that you bring to
00:23:32.46\00:23:34.60
look at the data.
00:23:34.63\00:23:36.11
So now they understand
the petrified Forest here in
00:23:36.14\00:23:39.32
Yellowstone national park.
00:23:39.35\00:23:41.48
It also when talking about
other features that came out
00:23:41.51\00:23:44.02
of Mount Saint Helens,
on the north fork of the
00:23:44.05\00:23:46.86
Toutle River they have
a little area they call
00:23:46.89\00:23:48.95
the little Grand Canyon.
00:23:48.98\00:23:50.73
They have found graded
beds in one area and it also
00:23:50.76\00:23:56.29
has been washed out as a
continuing wash out and it looks
00:23:56.32\00:24:02.02
like a little Grand
Canyon with graded beds
00:24:02.05\00:24:04.31
from a single event.
00:24:04.34\00:24:06.24
Which is kind of interesting.
00:24:06.27\00:24:08.03
So again it makes you
wonder if the Grand Canyon were
00:24:08.06\00:24:13.43
caused in a similar way,
caused by lots of graded beds
00:24:13.46\00:24:17.84
from maybe a single event
and we will talk about that
00:24:17.87\00:24:20.70
a little bit more.
00:24:20.73\00:24:22.11
It could also be formed
by a receding body of water,
00:24:22.14\00:24:29.08
and inland sea or something.
00:24:29.11\00:24:30.61
Have you ever been to
Monument Valley in Utah?
00:24:30.64\00:24:32.97
You see those huge monuments
standing with nothing around
00:24:33.00\00:24:39.61
them and you wonder where
is all the material because
00:24:39.64\00:24:41.74
you can see there
used to be probably huge
00:24:41.77\00:24:44.83
amounts of
material there, layers.
00:24:44.86\00:24:47.68
If you look across miles
over there and miles over there,
00:24:47.71\00:24:49.65
you see the same layers
on these monuments and wonder
00:24:49.68\00:24:53.38
where did all the
material go because it's not
00:24:53.41\00:24:54.92
here at the base.
00:24:54.95\00:24:56.63
Where did the material go?
00:24:56.66\00:24:57.89
The material had to been
swept out by some kind of water
00:24:57.92\00:25:00.22
action, there is no other
real good explanation that I
00:25:00.25\00:25:02.40
can think of with my
limited geology from school that
00:25:02.43\00:25:05.98
I can think about to explain
that big of drainage events.
00:25:06.01\00:25:11.21
Now enter in Dr. Art
Chadwick, a man I admire a lot.
00:25:11.24\00:25:15.27
He is a creationists
scientist and the National Park
00:25:15.30\00:25:20.68
Service has allowed him
to study some formations
00:25:20.71\00:25:23.03
in the Grand Canyon.
00:25:23.06\00:25:24.79
He has gone down and
study the Tippet Sand Stone.
00:25:24.82\00:25:27.09
That is the area that is
outlined there in the yellow.
00:25:27.12\00:25:31.20
Tippet Sand Stone is
considered to be the base,
00:25:31.23\00:25:33.97
well it is the Cambrian
layer and below it there is a
00:25:34.00\00:25:38.08
pre-Cambrian layer so it
is considered to be basically
00:25:38.11\00:25:41.20
the beginning of the
fossil record mostly.
00:25:41.23\00:25:43.49
Most people believe it is
the beginning of the fossil
00:25:43.52\00:25:46.47
record and the standard
interpretation for this is that
00:25:46.50\00:25:50.19
it was slow age, millions
of years and so on deposited.
00:25:50.22\00:25:54.11
He had questions, and the
evolutionary scientists don't
00:25:54.14\00:25:57.18
ask because of
the different views.
00:25:57.21\00:25:59.90
So he studied this Tippet
Sand Stone, he and some others,
00:25:59.93\00:26:03.59
he has come to the conclusion
and he has very good evidence
00:26:03.62\00:26:06.76
to show, especially with
the larger stones, that this
00:26:06.79\00:26:11.72
material was laid
down as the Turbidite.
00:26:11.75\00:26:15.56
Do you know what Turbidite is?
00:26:15.59\00:26:17.51
It is not an
ancient man, a Turbidite.
00:26:17.54\00:26:22.04
A Turbidite is actually
a deposit made underwater.
00:26:22.07\00:26:27.50
Let me show you
what example is here.
00:26:27.53\00:26:30.57
These are all Turbidite
here, these layers are mud that
00:26:30.60\00:26:34.43
was laid down not just with
water present, but laid down
00:26:34.46\00:26:38.64
with water up above it.
00:26:38.67\00:26:40.55
So you can have tremendous
amounts of material laid as a
00:26:40.58\00:26:44.46
Turbidite in a turbidity
current with water driven forces
00:26:44.49\00:26:50.34
behind it and laid out.
00:26:50.37\00:26:51.84
Now they are looking at the
very base of the Grand Canyon
00:26:51.87\00:26:54.93
at some of the lowest levels
and saying this appears to be
00:26:54.96\00:26:57.19
laid when there was
lots of water up above.
00:26:57.22\00:27:00.63
Let's move on.
00:27:00.66\00:27:03.16
Do you remember
this, this is a repeat?
00:27:05.10\00:27:07.41
Sedimentary again accounts for
most material on planet Earth's
00:27:23.09\00:27:27.50
crust, the surface, and most
of it is formed, not all, but
00:27:27.53\00:27:31.78
much of it is
formed with water present.
00:27:31.81\00:27:33.84
So it is interesting that
there is so much material around
00:27:33.87\00:27:36.35
that had to have water
involved in its making.
00:27:36.38\00:27:39.38
Again what is the evolutionists
Bible, the evolutionists Bible
00:27:39.41\00:27:42.64
is the geologic column.
00:27:42.67\00:27:45.20
That is we can see time
in history correctly recorded
00:27:45.23\00:27:49.46
there if we can interpret
it accurately we will know
00:27:49.49\00:27:52.65
what took place.
00:27:52.68\00:27:54.00
Again here at the layers
with the names and the standard
00:27:54.03\00:27:57.30
of understanding of millions
of years to the left-hand side.
00:27:57.33\00:28:00.94
Now what is interesting is
that the Cambrian, pre-Cambrian
00:28:00.97\00:28:04.57
level, and that is where
were going to look right now.
00:28:04.60\00:28:08.00
We mentioned briefly that
32/35 basic kinds of living
00:28:08.03\00:28:13.07
things are found at the very
beginning of the fossil record.
00:28:13.10\00:28:15.81
One of the interesting critters
to look at is a Trilobite.
00:28:15.84\00:28:19.62
I'm going to hold up here
what is called mortality plate.
00:28:19.65\00:28:23.90
Doesn't that sound wonderful?
00:28:23.93\00:28:25.15
A mortality plate of Trilobites.
00:28:25.18\00:28:29.04
This is from the Cambrian
period, so this is pretty early
00:28:29.07\00:28:33.64
in the fossil record
with all these critters caught
00:28:33.67\00:28:36.81
in some kind of material.
00:28:36.84\00:28:39.05
Of course these were
Marine dwelling animals, I think
00:28:39.08\00:28:41.89
possibly
shoreline, crab like things.
00:28:41.92\00:28:44.89
The problem for evolutionists
on this is the Trilobites and
00:28:44.92\00:28:51.67
other things found at this
lowest level are rather complex.
00:28:51.70\00:28:55.19
If you think about, the hope
would be if you are assuming
00:28:55.22\00:28:59.04
evolutionary model that you
would start very simple life
00:28:59.07\00:29:02.49
forms that will work its
way up in terms of complexity.
00:29:02.52\00:29:05.53
They would have more
complex features and so forth,
00:29:05.56\00:29:08.23
and yet the very first things
we find in the fossil record
00:29:08.26\00:29:10.28
are fairly complex, including
and certainly the Trilobites.
00:29:10.31\00:29:14.87
The Trilobites, much has been
made about their eyes because
00:29:14.90\00:29:18.09
it appears there are
different varieties of eyes.
00:29:18.12\00:29:21.42
Almost every kind of eye is
found on a Trilobite, given what
00:29:21.45\00:29:24.93
ever type of Trilobite you
find, there is quite a variety.
00:29:24.96\00:29:28.21
Again the evolution of the
eye is one of the interesting
00:29:28.24\00:29:30.37
challenges for the model,
what led to eyes and so forth.
00:29:30.40\00:29:36.00
Now Dr. Ariel Roth has
said this about finding the
00:29:36.03\00:29:41.43
Cambrian explosion,
that's what this term is for
00:29:41.46\00:29:44.14
suddenly finding all
these kinds of animals at the
00:29:44.17\00:29:46.94
very beginning of
the fossil record.
00:29:46.97\00:29:48.67
Again the basic types
of vertebrae and all these
00:30:18.96\00:30:22.12
different things suddenly
appear at the very lowest
00:30:22.15\00:30:24.82
level of the fossil record.
00:30:24.85\00:30:26.76
Now again remember
what Charles Darwin said.
00:30:26.79\00:30:29.05
He said if that
didn't happen my theory would
00:30:41.35\00:30:44.53
absolutely break down.
00:30:44.56\00:30:47.05
There again is the
evolution tree of life.
00:30:47.08\00:30:50.76
With its various branches
leading to the different
00:30:50.79\00:30:53.83
kinds of living things.
00:30:53.86\00:30:55.73
You see the animals breaking
off early from the plants
00:30:55.76\00:30:58.39
and invertebrates break
off of vertebrates at an early
00:30:58.42\00:31:02.39
break to all
the different kinds.
00:31:02.42\00:31:05.84
And of course you and I are
at the top where we should be.
00:31:05.87\00:31:08.00
I watched or listened
to this argument because
00:31:14.00\00:31:15.38
it is key in discussing
these kinds of things.
00:31:15.41\00:31:17.72
That is very
important that you see this.
00:31:43.17\00:31:45.54
This is none other than
Stephen J. Gould who said this.
00:31:45.57\00:31:50.06
He was
certainly an evolutionist.
00:31:50.09\00:31:52.00
The evidence, the fossil
evidence is not very compelling
00:31:52.03\00:31:56.08
for the complete evolutionary
tree of life according to
00:31:56.11\00:31:59.54
no less an authority than
Harvard's Stephen J. Gould.
00:31:59.57\00:32:03.11
Now they have, and he
has, an approach to try to deal
00:32:03.14\00:32:06.95
with that, but he is
saying that the fossil record
00:32:06.98\00:32:10.48
doesn't help Darwin's numerous
successive little changes
00:32:10.51\00:32:14.28
approach to evolution.
00:32:14.31\00:32:16.93
Let's take a look and
again a big problem for
00:32:16.96\00:32:19.69
evolutionists is of
course missing links.
00:32:19.72\00:32:23.78
You have heard this
term before, missing links.
00:32:23.81\00:32:25.88
It's not just in the human-ape
area, it's all across the board
00:32:25.91\00:32:30.48
as we are talking today.
00:32:30.51\00:32:33.02
Now what does this
director of the Field Museum, an
00:32:53.78\00:33:00.31
evolutionist, mean when
he says we have even fewer
00:33:00.34\00:33:03.37
examples? What he is saying
is the more we study some of
00:33:03.40\00:33:06.56
the accepted fossil transition
records for different kinds
00:33:06.59\00:33:10.67
of animals, we find they
do not hold up over time.
00:33:10.70\00:33:13.89
We are now having fewer
and fewer that can hold up as
00:33:13.92\00:33:16.27
good examples of evolution
from point A. to point B.
00:33:16.30\00:33:20.57
Now again this is
in-house talking as a look at
00:33:20.60\00:33:25.56
some of the issues.
00:33:25.59\00:33:27.22
To help deal with this let's
look at the work of an American,
00:33:29.71\00:33:33.06
a German born geneticist
named Richard Goldschmidt.
00:33:33.09\00:33:36.94
A Jewish man who fled Europe
at a good time to flee and
00:33:36.97\00:33:41.23
came to the United
States and end up at UC Berkeley
00:33:41.26\00:33:44.69
as a professor there.
00:33:44.72\00:33:46.29
He was a geneticist and one
of the first people to really
00:33:46.32\00:33:49.02
bring the science of genetics
into evolution trying to
00:33:49.05\00:33:53.41
work out some things.
00:33:53.44\00:33:54.98
But notice his observation.
00:33:55.01\00:33:57.25
What is he saying? It's not
the tiny changes as Darwin says.
00:34:05.38\00:34:08.70
In other words a big change.
00:34:15.16\00:34:17.78
Somebody had a big different
baby that they themselves were.
00:34:17.81\00:34:21.75
A big change and he coined
the term that has become his
00:34:21.78\00:34:27.06
famous line, he coined
the term that is funny but he
00:34:27.09\00:34:32.85
meant it to be serious.
00:34:32.88\00:34:34.00
Hopeful Monsters, in other
words they were hoping to find
00:34:34.03\00:34:37.86
some kind of significantly
different animal born from a
00:34:37.89\00:34:42.34
parent, and let's face it
the fossil record probably would
00:34:42.37\00:34:47.27
support that more than
the tiny changes because those
00:34:47.30\00:34:51.30
transitional ones
are not found very often.
00:34:51.33\00:34:54.45
Now no less again I'm
going to quote Stephen Jay Gould
00:34:54.48\00:34:58.16
again, the late great
evolutionist from Harvard says,
00:34:58.19\00:35:01.17
punctuated equilibrium
is another way of saying
00:35:19.17\00:35:26.90
equilibrium in the fossil
record, or in animal history.
00:35:26.93\00:35:31.58
They basically they stay this
way for quite a while and is
00:35:31.61\00:35:35.21
punctuated, it stops, and
then there is a big change and
00:35:35.24\00:35:38.90
then it goes in that way
for a while, and then there's a
00:35:38.93\00:35:41.81
big change so it is punctuated
equilibrium but only for
00:35:41.84\00:35:45.37
periods of time.
00:35:45.40\00:35:46.87
That is the
approach that some take now.
00:35:46.90\00:35:49.89
It is fair to say the
evolutionists have not
00:35:49.92\00:35:52.01
jumped on this bandwagon.
00:35:52.04\00:35:54.63
This is probably
something of a minority view.
00:35:54.66\00:35:57.86
There is no question that
the fossil record would probably
00:35:57.89\00:36:00.93
better support this than
those little tiny changes that
00:36:00.96\00:36:05.34
are still hoped for.
00:36:05.37\00:36:07.26
Now what Dr. David Menton,
and this is an anatomist,
00:36:07.29\00:36:11.38
and a creationist
mentioned about this.
00:36:11.41\00:36:15.61
That I think is a
reasonable statement to make.
00:36:29.07\00:36:33.93
People were asking, and I
got a question about fish.
00:36:33.96\00:36:37.45
What does the Bible say,
what happened with the fish
00:36:37.48\00:36:42.00
during the flood?
00:36:42.03\00:36:43.35
The plesiosaurs, swimming
reptiles and that sort of thing?
00:36:43.38\00:36:46.35
There is no question
that we have some marvelous,
00:36:46.38\00:36:49.62
marvelous almost exhilaratingly
beautiful fossils of some
00:36:49.65\00:36:56.56
kinds of animals, especially
fish that you take a look at
00:36:56.59\00:37:00.42
that and the preservation
of that is incredible.
00:37:00.45\00:37:03.49
The detail is magnificent.
00:37:03.52\00:37:05.12
There are not a lot of
conditions that will let
00:37:05.15\00:37:08.14
this happen certainly
today, and this is not something
00:37:08.17\00:37:11.17
that has been lost.
00:37:11.20\00:37:12.38
Please notice this,
hang on for this long quote.
00:37:12.41\00:37:14.82
This is not a
creationist speaking.
00:37:58.88\00:38:01.08
Immanuel Velikovsky, he is
saying, or arguing that there is
00:38:01.11\00:38:06.55
not a lot of things going
on in the world today that are
00:38:06.58\00:38:09.14
producing fossils, or mimicking
the conditions that would
00:38:09.17\00:38:13.48
preserve our fossil record.
00:38:13.51\00:38:15.28
He is suggesting, and
remember he says the basic point
00:38:15.31\00:38:18.87
is, the Uniformitarian
says nothing took place in the
00:38:18.91\00:38:22.43
past that does not
take place in the present.
00:38:22.47\00:38:24.24
So something is going
against the standard view of the
00:38:24.28\00:38:26.98
evidence about that.
00:38:27.01\00:38:28.43
So today no fossils
are formed, he says.
00:38:28.46\00:38:32.38
So the fossil record
just for your information,
00:38:33.98\00:38:36.50
what do we have
typically in the fossil record?
00:38:36.53\00:38:38.99
Almost all of our fossils
are marine invertebrates.
00:38:39.02\00:38:41.81
I can hold up a
couple like this.
00:38:41.84\00:38:48.14
Here is supposedly
100 million year old clam.
00:38:48.18\00:38:53.55
If you were to go to the
Oregon coast today you could
00:38:53.59\00:38:56.20
find that the
color would be different,
00:38:56.23\00:38:57.67
but they look pretty similar.
00:38:57.70\00:38:59.15
Here are some of the other
kinds, and you see almost all
00:38:59.19\00:39:02.05
fossils are like this.
00:39:02.08\00:39:03.42
You have all been to places
where you see the shells and
00:39:03.45\00:39:05.18
the rocks and so
forth, they are fairly common.
00:39:05.22\00:39:06.98
We get down to dinosaurs
basically in the bottom part.
00:39:24.89\00:39:28.64
I think the number that
sticks in my mind is to how many
00:39:28.67\00:39:32.96
dinosaurs skeletons have been
found is probably under 3000
00:39:33.00\00:39:36.59
total, and I know many of us
might have images of many more
00:39:36.63\00:39:40.19
than that being found.
00:39:40.22\00:39:41.39
Remember you only
needed 10% to be a skeleton.
00:39:41.42\00:39:44.36
And remember
that the ?suet is 90%
00:39:44.40\00:39:46.74
and number 2 is 40%.
00:39:46.78\00:39:49.15
So most skeletons have
relatively a few bones.
00:39:49.18\00:39:51.47
So actually there is not a
lot of non-shellfish fossil
00:39:51.51\00:39:56.02
records around, so you
have to build a lot from what
00:39:56.05\00:40:00.53
you have, your image.
00:40:00.56\00:40:02.38
A lot of things were
not preserved very well.
00:40:02.42\00:40:04.80
But many things worked.
00:40:04.83\00:40:06.08
Now if evolution was true
I would ask a few questions
00:40:06.11\00:40:08.90
like this, just
to think out loud.
00:40:08.94\00:40:10.30
If I just was coming straight
to the table with an open mind,
00:40:10.34\00:40:13.67
logical, I hear the theory.
I want to look for evidence.
00:40:13.71\00:40:16.79
If evolution was true
what sort of evidence would we
00:40:16.83\00:40:19.88
expect to find?
00:40:19.92\00:40:20.91
Well the fossil series should
show transition to new species
00:40:20.94\00:40:24.93
is not what we find.
00:40:24.96\00:40:26.47
We cannot find those
missing links, they are missing.
00:40:26.50\00:40:29.34
Again we find the
Cambrian explosion and suddenly
00:40:32.96\00:40:35.55
everything is rather
complex and organized.
00:40:35.59\00:40:38.00
Now we are moving up the
tree to more and more different
00:40:41.63\00:40:44.21
kinds of things, again it
is not so we have lost more
00:40:44.24\00:40:46.79
species and are
losing species every day.
00:40:46.82\00:40:50.65
Somewhere somehow we should
see evidence of macro evolution.
00:40:58.90\00:41:03.03
We see micro evolution
going on but not macro.
00:41:03.17\00:41:05.79
Unless you talk about poodles.
00:41:05.83\00:41:07.67
But anyway that
is another thing.
00:41:07.70\00:41:09.47
If creation was true, and
I'm thinking again if I was
00:41:09.51\00:41:13.98
just blank and looking
at evidence and hear that
00:41:14.02\00:41:16.67
explanation of creation
and suddenly everything was
00:41:16.71\00:41:19.33
created at one time.
00:41:19.36\00:41:20.74
When then I would expect in
the fossil record I would find
00:41:20.77\00:41:24.02
a lack of transitions
to new species in fossils.
00:41:24.05\00:41:26.90
Know what I mean by stasis
is like the equilibrium thing,
00:41:31.15\00:41:35.45
that let's say T. Rex shows
up in the fossil record of the
00:41:35.49\00:41:39.76
Cretaceous and let's
say, I don't remember exactly,
00:41:39.79\00:41:42.49
80 million years and it is
taken out of 65 million years.
00:41:42.52\00:41:46.28
That is 15
million years of T. Rex's.
00:41:46.31\00:41:48.51
Well you would expect in
your evolutionary model that the
00:41:48.55\00:41:53.65
environment has changed
at least a little bit in
00:41:53.69\00:41:56.75
15 million years, you
would expect the T. Rex to look
00:41:56.78\00:41:59.19
significantly different,
or even a little bit different
00:41:59.23\00:42:01.60
at the beginning
than they do at the end.
00:42:01.64\00:42:04.29
What we see is a T. Rex's
here and the T. Rex's there and
00:42:04.32\00:42:07.28
that is consistent
with most fossils things.
00:42:07.32\00:42:11.15
We see stasis pretty much
even though millions of years
00:42:11.18\00:42:15.00
supposedly for
some animals existed.
00:42:15.03\00:42:17.34
Remember the Celocant 410
million years and we find them
00:42:17.37\00:42:21.44
today and they
look pretty similar.
00:42:21.47\00:42:24.33
Not identical exactly in
every detail but close enough.
00:42:24.37\00:42:27.12
If I believed in creation
and I believed in the flood
00:42:32.03\00:42:34.15
and things got covered up
in the bottom of the flood,
00:42:34.19\00:42:37.00
I would expect that
those things would be complex.
00:42:37.03\00:42:39.58
There would not be an
issue of simple to complex.
00:42:39.61\00:42:42.13
Again that is how it is.
00:42:42.16\00:42:44.65
Again that is how I see it
so let's talk more about it now.
00:42:48.22\00:42:53.21
I told you I was going to
tell you about the problems.
00:42:53.24\00:42:55.23
We do have a
problem, age issues,
00:42:55.27\00:42:57.43
Radiometric Dating especially.
00:42:57.46\00:42:59.55
There's little cracks in the
armor and there's suggestions,
00:42:59.59\00:43:01.75
I could go technical but
I'm not going to go technical
00:43:01.78\00:43:04.52
because I am still
hoping to find better stuff.
00:43:04.56\00:43:07.21
Right now it is a little
weak, and we are still working
00:43:07.24\00:43:10.77
on that, it's a problem.
00:43:10.81\00:43:12.11
Fossil order is
the other problem.
00:43:12.15\00:43:13.87
Let me try to
explain what fossil order is.
00:43:13.90\00:43:16.56
Dinosaurs are good examples.
00:43:16.60\00:43:20.34
Dinosaurs are found from the
middle Triassic up to Jurassic,
00:43:20.38\00:43:24.77
to Cretaceous layer and
then there is no more dinosaurs.
00:43:24.80\00:43:28.92
If your image of a worldwide
flood is that everything got
00:43:28.95\00:43:33.25
covered up and you expect
some to be here in a couple over
00:43:33.28\00:43:36.98
there, few over here and
so forth, moved around a bit.
00:43:37.02\00:43:40.53
Some mixtures, but fossil
order is pretty consistent.
00:43:40.56\00:43:44.11
It was a British surveyor
by the name of William Smith
00:43:44.15\00:43:48.51
in the early 1800s noticed
that there were certain kinds
00:43:48.55\00:43:52.98
a marine shells found in
certain layers consistently.
00:43:53.02\00:43:56.70
Wherever he was he would
find the same kind of shells
00:43:56.74\00:44:00.39
in the same layers.
00:44:00.43\00:44:02.03
It was out of Britain that
we began to be getting names
00:44:02.06\00:44:05.66
like Cambrian, Davonian and
so forth that were named after
00:44:05.69\00:44:09.32
certain areas of Britain that
had to do with the layers that
00:44:09.35\00:44:12.94
were found there and they
were identified consistently.
00:44:12.98\00:44:15.65
It was through work like
William Smith's and others their
00:44:15.69\00:44:18.33
observation that we noticed
there was an order, a fossil
00:44:18.36\00:44:21.15
order in the geologic column.
00:44:21.19\00:44:22.80
Again if your image of
a worldwide flood is that
00:44:22.83\00:44:26.03
things may have been
churned a bit and sorted out in
00:44:26.07\00:44:29.23
different ways,
things are very well sorted.
00:44:29.27\00:44:32.04
Worldwide flood people,
like myself, are challenged to
00:44:32.07\00:44:36.05
try to come up with a
real good explanation although
00:44:36.08\00:44:39.62
let me share with you a
couple of starting points.
00:44:39.66\00:44:43.13
Now fossil order, I say we
may have a couple of ways to
00:44:43.17\00:44:46.79
explain fossil
order as creationist.
00:44:46.82\00:44:49.70
Here is a couple of them.
00:44:49.74\00:44:51.19
I am not satisfied totally
with all of them, but I think
00:44:51.23\00:44:55.59
they are a good start.
00:44:55.63\00:44:57.00
Now there is a
good term for you.
00:44:59.49\00:45:01.22
Ecological zonation is another
way of saying that animals
00:45:01.25\00:45:04.59
were covered up in their
areas by the ecological zone
00:45:04.62\00:45:07.89
they were in, in other words
if it was a desert area, they
00:45:07.93\00:45:11.81
got covered up as all desert
things would in that area.
00:45:11.85\00:45:15.70
So that desert
zone got covered up.
00:45:15.73\00:45:17.69
It was a forest area, or an
alpine area, or something like
00:45:17.72\00:45:21.87
that it got covered
up the way water was.
00:45:21.91\00:45:25.13
This evidence of water
slowly rising, animals trying to
00:45:25.16\00:45:29.18
get a way from slowly rising
water, in fact you might say
00:45:29.21\00:45:33.30
all dinosaurs footprints had
to be laid in a muddy, sandy,
00:45:33.34\00:45:37.39
watery situation and that
is how they got preserved.
00:45:37.43\00:45:41.23
Material floated them before
they eroded away, or washed
00:45:41.26\00:45:45.03
away or whatever they
got covered up and preserved.
00:45:45.06\00:45:47.64
Water is usually needed
for something like that.
00:45:47.68\00:45:50.21
So again if that is the
case and animals have some
00:45:50.25\00:45:53.23
time to slowly get away
or try to get away before
00:45:53.26\00:45:56.21
they got covered up.
00:45:56.24\00:45:57.78
Now if these kind of things
suggest that there was less
00:45:57.82\00:46:01.28
sorting, but maybe slowly
the areas were covered up.
00:46:01.31\00:46:04.74
Ecological zonation
would be one possibility.
00:46:04.77\00:46:08.97
Here's another good
one, motility factors.
00:46:09.01\00:46:13.14
Motility factors will
play into something like the
00:46:13.18\00:46:17.85
Trilobites, the trilobites
probably couldn't move because
00:46:17.89\00:46:21.51
a lot of silk was coming
down into the water, into the
00:46:21.54\00:46:25.13
areas of water they were in.
00:46:25.16\00:46:27.58
They couldn't swim away
very quickly and motility would
00:46:27.62\00:46:31.43
affect the lower part of
animal fossil record, may be
00:46:31.46\00:46:34.55
they could get away very
quickly as the waters were
00:46:34.59\00:46:37.64
rising and the mud was coming.
00:46:37.68\00:46:39.03
So motility might be why
birds are toward the top, why
00:46:39.07\00:46:44.51
mammals are towards the top,
why animals for smaller brains
00:46:44.55\00:46:47.26
are towards the
bottom and things like that.
00:46:47.30\00:46:49.09
They may have just had more
trouble getting out of the way.
00:46:49.13\00:46:51.79
It's a possibility again
it is only a partial answer.
00:46:51.82\00:46:54.13
Here's a great one.
00:46:54.17\00:46:55.82
Buoyancy factors.
00:46:55.85\00:46:57.43
Or the wonderful bloat
and float studies, doesn't
00:46:57.47\00:47:01.55
that sound wonderful?
00:47:01.58\00:47:02.93
How animals float in
water, or don't float.
00:47:02.97\00:47:05.61
as the case may be.
00:47:05.64\00:47:07.16
We know that birds, they've
done studies on this, I would
00:47:07.19\00:47:10.38
hate to be present for this.
00:47:10.42\00:47:11.82
But they did studies with
animal bodies and water to see
00:47:11.85\00:47:14.91
how long it took for various
kinds of animals to sink.
00:47:14.94\00:47:17.96
They found that birds
took 76 days on average.
00:47:18.00\00:47:21.42
Mammals 56 days and reptiles
32 days and amphibians five.
00:47:21.46\00:47:26.38
I don't know if that contributes
somewhat to the sorting,
00:47:26.42\00:47:31.31
but it may be a factor.
00:47:31.34\00:47:33.16
Fossil order is still an
interesting one and I'm sure
00:47:33.19\00:47:37.39
that we have more
to learn about it.
00:47:37.43\00:47:39.00
I've already told you how fossil
order is not a great thing for
00:47:39.04\00:47:42.55
evolutionists as well, because
of the lack of transition.
00:47:42.59\00:47:45.44
We both have challenges
looking at the geologic column.
00:47:45.47\00:47:48.29
Meanwhile, back to the
story involving the flood.
00:47:48.33\00:47:52.98
People have
questions about the Ark.
00:47:53.01\00:47:54.54
For instance, how big was it?
00:47:54.57\00:47:56.09
Just how big was
the Ark in terms of the
00:47:56.13\00:47:58.23
dimensions and so on.
00:47:58.27\00:47:59.98
Well we know the description
puts it as 450 feet long.
00:48:00.02\00:48:03.73
75 feet wide and
a height of 45 feet.
00:48:03.76\00:48:07.29
With three decks which means
1.5 million cubic feet capacity.
00:48:07.32\00:48:10.74
To give you an idea what we
are talking about in terms of
00:48:10.77\00:48:15.26
regular train car capacity
is about 522 railroad cars.
00:48:15.29\00:48:19.75
So that is a
reasonable size capacity.
00:48:19.78\00:48:22.67
We already know the dimensions
are similar to an oil tanker.
00:48:22.70\00:48:26.40
It is meant to float, not
the sail, not to be tipped over.
00:48:26.43\00:48:29.80
That is why they use the word
Ark, if you've ever wondered
00:48:29.83\00:48:33.14
how Noah and Moses both
had Arks that are considerably
00:48:33.18\00:48:36.80
different looking, it
simply means box, or container.
00:48:36.83\00:48:40.18
It's a container ship, I
mean the ship was a container.
00:48:40.21\00:48:43.60
It was meant to be a box to
hold things in and float and
00:48:43.63\00:48:46.99
not to fall over.
00:48:47.02\00:48:48.30
Here's an
interesting old picture.
00:48:48.33\00:48:50.23
But here's the thing,
when we talk about the species,
00:48:50.27\00:48:52.98
and a lot of times people
are thinking are we talking
00:48:53.02\00:48:55.69
about species that
has to be in there.
00:48:55.73\00:48:57.44
There is no way to get all
the species in the world, but
00:48:57.48\00:49:00.66
if you went to genera
or families, remember the
00:49:00.70\00:49:03.66
classification of different
kinds of animals is somewhat
00:49:03.69\00:49:06.62
arbitrary, a
little bit arbitrary.
00:49:06.66\00:49:08.94
You could have at
least 8000 kinds of animals.
00:49:08.97\00:49:12.97
Kinds is the Hebrew word
that is not very scientific,
00:49:13.01\00:49:16.12
kinds? What does
that mean? Genera or what?
00:49:16.15\00:49:20.37
8000 kinds of pairs could
be in there, that's 16,000
00:49:20.41\00:49:25.72
animals plus provisions for
one year and still have over
00:49:25.75\00:49:31.03
half the Ark left.
00:49:31.06\00:49:32.74
So it is possible to have a
pretty good number of creatures.
00:49:32.78\00:49:36.28
The story of the flood
should never be looked at very
00:49:36.32\00:49:39.80
lightly or humorously because
the kind of devastation and
00:49:39.84\00:49:43.29
loss at the time is
almost unbelievable.
00:49:43.32\00:49:47.38
But here's a thought and
this comes from genetic studies.
00:49:47.41\00:49:52.28
Occasionally we bring in these,
they are really interesting.
00:49:52.31\00:49:57.14
But these are evolutionists
speaking, they are looking at
00:50:09.76\00:50:11.65
the number of people on
planet earth today with the
00:50:11.69\00:50:14.31
assumption of millions of
years of evolution this planet
00:50:14.34\00:50:17.35
should be overly
crowded right now.
00:50:17.39\00:50:19.86
Although you might
say it's pretty crowded.
00:50:19.90\00:50:21.73
Where did all the
people go is the question.
00:50:21.76\00:50:23.52
When or how often that may have
happened is anybody's guess.
00:50:23.55\00:50:26.28
Environmental disaster
could be a reason why we do
00:50:28.60\00:50:33.13
not have more
people on planet earth.
00:50:33.17\00:50:35.42
I would at that point
raise my hand and say, oh, oh,
00:50:35.45\00:50:39.37
I have a possible answer
there, why we don't have more
00:50:39.40\00:50:43.28
people on planet Earth.
00:50:43.31\00:50:44.76
So what happened to the
evidence of pre-flood man?
00:50:44.80\00:50:46.85
This is always a
question that comes up.
00:50:46.89\00:50:48.93
We believe there was a worldwide
flood and there were people
00:50:48.97\00:50:52.01
living before the flood so
what happened to their remains?
00:50:52.04\00:50:55.05
We find towns or villages, but
why don't we find human bones?
00:50:55.09\00:50:58.06
The Hebrew says this.
00:51:01.93\00:51:03.14
The word destroyed there
is literally to wipe off or
00:51:10.62\00:51:14.03
eliminate, to virtually
erase the presence of man.
00:51:14.07\00:51:17.44
And that is pretty
much what has happened.
00:51:17.48\00:51:18.84
He erased man whom He created
from the face of the earth.
00:51:18.88\00:51:22.29
Is there a natural explanation
to what might have triggered
00:51:26.07\00:51:28.71
all the things
that led to the flood?
00:51:28.74\00:51:30.35
We already hinted at that
because there is evidence of an
00:51:30.38\00:51:33.30
asteroid strike, and
it is a very possible.
00:51:33.34\00:51:37.61
Now there is evidence of
several asteroids by looking
00:51:37.64\00:51:39.90
at the numbers lately and now
there seems there's potential
00:51:39.94\00:51:43.46
of three, four, five or
maybe more asteroids that struck
00:51:43.49\00:51:46.24
the Earth, and the famous
one they talk about is the one
00:51:46.27\00:51:48.99
by the Yucatan in Mexico.
00:51:49.02\00:51:50.99
There was a big
asteroid strike there.
00:51:51.03\00:51:52.66
But if you had several huge
asteroid strikes in the Earth,
00:51:52.70\00:51:56.40
it could easily have caused
some crustal breakage that may
00:51:56.43\00:52:00.84
have led to some of things
bursting forth from the deep.
00:52:00.88\00:52:05.60
Again how is it possible
for as Richard Dockings put it,
00:52:05.63\00:52:09.73
Middle eastern camel herders,
the writers of the Bible.
00:52:09.76\00:52:13.93
Being sarcastic as to their
level of scientific knowledge.
00:52:13.96\00:52:18.47
How is it possible that
they could guess, or know that
00:52:18.51\00:52:22.98
just if rain fell that
wouldn't been enough water
00:52:23.02\00:52:26.60
to flood the earth?
00:52:26.63\00:52:28.05
How would they know you
needed to pump water into the
00:52:28.08\00:52:30.21
atmosphere by subterranean
vents and fountains?
00:52:30.24\00:52:34.26
How would they know that?
00:52:34.29\00:52:35.39
And because of the atmosphere
is totally saturated and you
00:52:35.42\00:52:38.66
went straight up and had as
much water in the air as you
00:52:38.70\00:52:41.87
possibly could hold before
it would fall, and then it went
00:52:41.91\00:52:45.04
kirplack right down the ground.
00:52:45.08\00:52:47.53
The most you would get
would be around a foot of water.
00:52:47.57\00:52:50.01
There's only
that kind of capacity.
00:52:50.04\00:52:51.79
Why you get more rain than
that in some places is because
00:52:51.83\00:52:55.32
wind is blowing in rain
clouds and they keep dumping
00:52:55.35\00:52:58.52
in the same place.
00:52:58.55\00:52:59.81
But you cannot saturate
the atmosphere to the extent of
00:52:59.85\00:53:03.41
covering the world
in a worldwide flood.
00:53:03.44\00:53:05.45
You just can't do it.
00:53:05.49\00:53:06.80
So you have to have a source
for water that the water would
00:53:06.83\00:53:09.34
be pumped into the atmosphere
and keep the rain coming.
00:53:09.38\00:53:11.85
The flood would come
from beneath and from above.
00:53:11.88\00:53:15.40
An asteroid, it is interesting
from the Bible, the Bible
00:53:15.43\00:53:19.21
does describe occasionally
use rocks from heaven when He
00:53:19.24\00:53:22.98
deals with problem man.
00:53:23.02\00:53:25.88
So there is a story in Daniel
talking about such things.
00:53:25.91\00:53:29.20
Notice this biblical
record of what appears to be an
00:53:29.23\00:53:32.06
description of events
that took place in the flood.
00:53:32.10\00:53:34.90
So that is interesting,
that the mountains rose and the
00:53:53.58\00:53:55.93
valleys sank
down during the flood.
00:53:55.97\00:53:58.93
That might explain why
mount Everest is at the 26,000
00:53:58.97\00:54:03.50
foot level has marine
deposits, shells at 26,000 foot
00:54:03.53\00:54:08.03
level at Mount Everest.
00:54:08.06\00:54:10.42
So at some point the
water was even up there, or, I'm
00:54:10.46\00:54:12.63
thinking, the mountain was
down here while there was water.
00:54:12.67\00:54:16.26
So everybody agrees that
these things happened in terms
00:54:16.29\00:54:19.17
of the mountains going up
and the valleys have gone down.
00:54:19.20\00:54:22.04
Evolutionists say it has
simply taken a long time.
00:54:22.08\00:54:24.63
The continent breaking
apart and shifting and crashing
00:54:24.66\00:54:26.81
into each other and
causing mountain chains again.
00:54:26.84\00:54:28.92
Everyone agrees that happens,
again it is a question of
00:54:28.95\00:54:31.66
how quickly and
how long and so forth.
00:54:31.70\00:54:33.69
The evidence is there
that it took place but,
00:54:33.73\00:54:35.84
how long did it take?
00:54:35.87\00:54:39.17
Bertrand Russell said
again, and I've used this quote
00:54:39.21\00:54:41.89
that I used more than once.
00:54:41.92\00:54:42.89
Well it is interesting
that he said that because on the
00:54:52.28\00:54:55.54
issue of evolution and
creation the Bible even predicts
00:54:55.80\00:54:58.49
there will be
discussions on this very thing
00:54:58.52\00:55:00.89
in the last days.
00:55:00.93\00:55:02.36
What does that sound like?
00:55:20.44\00:55:21.91
Uniformitarianism, just
continuing on and on with no
00:55:21.94\00:55:25.63
involvement of God breaking
into the history of this Planet.
00:55:25.67\00:55:30.33
So they are joking
that He would do it again.
00:55:30.36\00:55:32.64
It says scoffers in the
last days, if we are in the last
00:55:32.67\00:55:36.01
days and we see this kind of
a controversy going on today,
00:55:36.05\00:55:39.35
then there is a
prediction that came through.
00:55:39.39\00:55:41.73
There is a forgetfulness
on the historical record.
00:55:52.75\00:55:55.93
Prediction then, we will
be talking about these things.
00:55:55.96\00:55:58.93
When you talk about water
and when you talk about fire,
00:55:58.96\00:56:01.90
I think about
these kinds of verses.
00:56:01.93\00:56:04.37
From John the Baptist
himself and Jesus called
00:56:04.41\00:56:07.95
the greatest prophet.
00:56:07.98\00:56:09.22
There you have the
combination of water and fire.
00:56:20.63\00:56:22.78
The two great cleansing agents
that God has tended to use.
00:56:22.81\00:56:26.53
Water cleanses, but
not as good as fire does.
00:56:26.56\00:56:29.90
So there is One that is coming
that will use fire so there
00:56:29.93\00:56:33.70
is a day
predicted in the future.
00:56:33.73\00:56:36.32
So water is a prediction of
God breaking into this world
00:56:51.08\00:56:54.61
and that He will do it
again with fire the second time.
00:56:54.65\00:56:58.15
The good news is there
something good that waits
00:56:58.18\00:57:00.96
on the other side.
00:57:00.99\00:57:02.53
You remember the beautiful
story of God's deliverance of
00:57:17.04\00:57:21.00
those who were wanting to
be delivered, who wanted to
00:57:21.03\00:57:24.96
avoid what was
coming on the world.
00:57:25.00\00:57:26.72
God provided an ark.
00:57:26.76\00:57:28.40
People asked, could you get
every animal and everything on
00:57:28.43\00:57:32.61
the Ark? I've shown evidence
actually there was little room.
00:57:32.65\00:57:35.49
You can answer this
question, why was there so much
00:57:35.52\00:57:37.77
room on the Ark?
00:57:37.81\00:57:39.12
The answer would be
because God had hoped more
00:57:39.15\00:57:41.62
people would get on.
00:57:41.65\00:57:43.03
Thank you very much hope
you enjoyed tonight's topic.
00:57:43.06\00:57:46.34