Hello I'm Stan Hudson
speaker for In the Beginning.
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Today were going to be
looking at what I consider
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to be some of the very
best scientific questions
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about creationism.
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In the beginning, when was that?
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The issues of
how old things are.
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I hope you will enjoy.
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Good evening, I
hope you had a good day.
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We are here to
continue our lecture series on
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In the Beginning.
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Tonight we are going to
talk about what I consider to be
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the weaknesses of creation
theory and we will talk about
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that just as honest as we can.
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Because some of the biggest
issues, the biggest challenges
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for those who have a tendency
to lean toward a biblical
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account, toward belief
in God and God's involvement
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in this world.
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We have a challenge with
dating methods and so we will
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talk about those challenges
this evening along with other
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things that deal
with how old things are.
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So tonight, again,
is In the Beginning.
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When Was That?
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It's a Big Question.
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We are going to get a little
technical couple times this
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evening and I hope that you
will hang in there for opening
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statement, it is a long
one that sets the stage for us.
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Or do they?
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What kind of glasses
do we look through to
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look at the data?
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What kind of assumptions in
our world view are we bringing
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to interpret things,
and that is very, very key.
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That is key for both sides
of the aisle on this question.
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It is very. very significant.
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So let's take a look at age
issues tonight as we look at
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when the beginning was.
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Now as I mentioned before,
I want to be very frank with
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what the difficulties are
for the creationist position.
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The two biggest issues,
as I see it, our Radiometric
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Dating and Fossil Order.
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Now we will talk about fossil
order when we talk about the
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flood, so let's
hang onto that question.
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Tonight we are going to
try to tackle probably the more
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difficult of the two and
that is radiometric dating.
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How to date rocks and so on.
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When we talk about chronology
at how old the earth is
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probably the first date
that ever was seriously assigned
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to how old things were
was by Bishop James Usher.
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He was a bishop
in church in Ireland.
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Now today we think of that
is kind of funny to have that
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kind of precision, but frankly
he did some good scholarly
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work and of course based
it on the biblical record.
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How did he come up with such
a date, it is because the Bible
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is concerned about
chronology but remember this is
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what changed things.
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In other words remember
that we live now in a world that
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rejects the sources of
information that Bishop Usher
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used to determine the ages.
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Now we have to shift and
look at other things to try and
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determine the age of
the earth, and the age about
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a lot of things.
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Now in the
discussion comes James Hutton.
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James Hutton is the
Father of Modern Geology.
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Uniformly, gradualism is
a roughly synonymous term.
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Of course, in the era
in which he proposes he was
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specifically saying, I
don't believe in the flood,
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Noah's flood, as accounting
for the things we see.
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And that is a little bit
of a challenge to what was
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currently held in biblical
believing parts of the world.
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The processes you see going
on today is the way to date
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how long they
have been going on.
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If you have a cubic yard
of material coming out of the
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creek area per year then
just wind the clock back and you
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will be able to tell
how long that creek has been
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carving that channel.
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That is the kind of
thinking that they had.
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Now what he based it on a
particular in Britain was some
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observations he made of erosion.
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He looked at Hadrian's Wall,
at Hadrian's Wall in his day
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went back almost 2000 years.
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His thinking was that would
be about a third of the Earth's
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history if you went
with the biblical account.
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You look at it and was not
particularly eroded that much.
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Then when he look at
things like the mountains around
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England, some of them in
particular, but they have been
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so eroded so very much more.
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If Hadrian's Wall has only
been eroded a little bit in a
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third of the era of the Earth,
and these mountains have much,
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much, much more erosion,
it seems like they have been
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around much
longer than 6000 years.
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This was his thinking, at
least one of the supports that
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he used for his position.
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Then came Charles Lyle,
Charles Lyle wrote Principles of
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Geology, he imagined the
Earth to be perhaps millions of
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years old and it was his
book especially inspired Charles
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Darwin on the Galapagos
island trip he took to consider
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the age of the earth.
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Now was really
kind of like this.
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You may think of the process
of Darwin's thinking this way.
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They had a model for a
long age in geology, which was
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Uniformitarianism, gradualism,
rates continue at roughly the
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same speed we see now.
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But we do not have a model
particularly in biology yet
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that would be long age.
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So Darwin was able to come
up with the theory of evolution
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based on the survival of
the fittest, natural selection,
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to be the biological
component for long age.
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Little bitty changes over
long age and that goes with the
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growing field of
geology in the day
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were seeing long age.
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Now what is interesting is
the idea of determining the age
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of the world, was obviously
it has gotten longer and
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longer as the
studies have gone on.
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This is just a very interesting
fellow and you need to
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read the biography
on William Thompson.
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The guy is very,
very interesting.
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All the different things
he was into in the 1800s.
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He was an engineer and
involved with the Atlantic cable
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that went across
and connected Europe and
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the United States.
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Lots of interesting things,
but anyway he was an Irish man
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who studied in
particular heat and entropy and
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things involving energy.
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It was some of his own ideas
that led to the second law of
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thermodynamics that we
talked about before, remember?
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Entropy happens, do
this if you remember that.
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It was based on
some of his studies.
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He studied heat loss and
particularly he estimated the
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age of the earth to be between
20 and 40 million years old.
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Now he was a Christian, a
fairly devout Christian, and
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wrestled with
some of these things.
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Anyway he was very interesting
and very colorful fellow.
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So now he has the age up
to 20 to 40 million years.
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He thought he would not
be older than that because of
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heat loss issues, he
thought the planet would be
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too cold if it were older.
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Well then another scientist
Ernest Rutherford came from New
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Zealand, a very
brilliant scientist.
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He got the Nobel
Prize in a number of things.
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He was really the
father of nuclear physics.
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He developed experiments,
he figured out things like
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half-life, did
some kinds of isotopes,
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some kinds of elements
actually break down and
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it would be at a
consistent rate and so forth.
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He really set the stage
for the way that we date rocks
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today, so this man was a very
brilliant scientist as well.
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Ernest Rutherford.
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These are steps in the
era and he also said that with
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radioactivity going on in
the planet and some things
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decaying actually extends
the age of the earth because
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suddenly the issue that
will Lord Kelvin talked about
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The world getting to cool,
if it is old it is okay now
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because radioactive decay
provides some heat and that
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would extend the dates.
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So now they can go a little
longer than 40 million years.
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Well the currently accepted
age of the earth you have to
00:10:04.62\00:10:07.81
what's the currently age? Let's
see if anybody can nails it.
00:10:07.85\00:10:11.00
4.5, 4.5 you are pretty close.
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According to the things that
I have looked at recently that
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is the currently
accepted age of planet Earth.
00:10:21.93\00:10:24.87
Now when you look at
the universe there is also a
00:10:24.91\00:10:27.77
currently accepted age and
let's see if you've got this.
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It has actually moved
up a little bit, used to be
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14 or 15 billion but now
I'm hearing a little less,
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we will talk about some of
these things, especially on the
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last night when I talk about
In The Beginning and in the end.
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We will be talking about the
Big Bang theory and so forth.
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But anyway 13, billion +
years for the universe is the
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accepted thing.
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Now just for the fun of it
I was going to insert in here
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a Hebrew lesson, everyone
here wanted to learn Hebrew when
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you came so I'll give you
the Hebrew word for Genesis.
00:11:01.70\00:11:05.43
It is the first word
in the Bible in Hebrew.
00:11:05.47\00:11:07.52
I thought you would
really want to learn it.
00:11:07.55\00:11:09.69
So here we are and we
are going to learn this.
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It reads from right
to left as you saw it
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move across there.
00:11:13.53\00:11:14.72
Incidentally, if you can
see that little spot at the top
00:11:14.75\00:11:17.87
of that shin there, that is
a little dot, that is a tittle.
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You've heard the
Bible talk about a tittle?
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There is a yowed which is a
jot, you've heard nothing will
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change a jot or a tittle?
00:11:28.72\00:11:30.40
There they are in the
Hebrew with the smallest letters
00:11:30.43\00:11:33.77
basically it's what Jesus
was saying that nothing would
00:11:33.81\00:11:37.12
ever change of God's word.
00:11:37.15\00:11:39.23
So reading from right to
left that says B r sh ith.
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Now that is B R SH and actually
the third in a letter has no
00:11:44.14\00:11:48.14
sound, B R SH I TH and
it is pronounced Bereshith.
00:11:48.17\00:11:52.78
Now let's hear you say
it, Bereshith, Bereshith.
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You just said in Hebrew
the first word in the Bible and
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that is
literally in the beginning.
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The B start the in.
00:12:04.24\00:12:06.41
Bereshith in the beginning
God created the heavens
00:12:06.44\00:12:10.18
and the earth.
00:12:10.22\00:12:11.41
Alright now that is
according to the scripture,
00:12:11.45\00:12:14.03
but what is the
Bible for evolutionists?
00:12:14.07\00:12:16.44
The evolutionist also
have a Bible and what is that?
00:12:16.48\00:12:19.13
It is not the origin of species.
00:12:19.16\00:12:21.32
It is the geologic record.
00:12:21.35\00:12:24.35
It is the order of the
things we see in the planet.
00:12:24.38\00:12:27.84
It is, shall we say, the
inerrant record of what is taken
00:12:27.87\00:12:30.39
place in history and we
just need to interpret it
00:12:30.42\00:12:32.83
correctly to know.
00:12:32.87\00:12:34.29
Sometimes interpretation
varies but there is the record
00:12:34.33\00:12:37.85
and it should be
reasonably inerrant.
00:12:37.89\00:12:40.32
Now we will talk about that
and look here is the standard
00:12:40.36\00:12:44.14
geologic column and we see
it going from pre-Cambrian,
00:12:44.18\00:12:48.07
down at the bottom at about
4.5 billion years all the way
00:12:48.10\00:12:51.95
up to our period of time,
Holocene, Quaternary and so on.
00:12:51.98\00:12:56.52
Paleozoic means early life,
Mesozoic means middle life,
00:12:56.55\00:13:01.29
and Cenozoic means recent
life and there are the 3 areas.
00:13:01.32\00:13:06.21
You remember some of the
key developments we are going to
00:13:06.24\00:13:09.57
talk a little more about
this when we get into the flood,
00:13:09.60\00:13:12.90
but 32/35 phyla of
life appears at the
00:13:12.93\00:13:16.13
Precambrian Junction.
00:13:16.17\00:13:17.93
That is called the
Cambrian explosion.
00:13:17.97\00:13:20.58
Here are some of the other
great places where we've noticed
00:13:20.61\00:13:23.76
things happening and changing
in the fossil record with
00:13:23.79\00:13:26.90
plants and animals.
00:13:26.94\00:13:28.08
Dinosaurs and mammals appear,
I'm giving you a standard
00:13:28.11\00:13:32.03
interpretation on the right.
00:13:32.07\00:13:35.07
Dinosaurs and Mammals
appear roughly from the
00:13:35.11\00:13:38.17
Triassic period.
00:13:38.20\00:13:39.94
The first flowers and then
up here of course people appear
00:13:39.98\00:13:42.99
on the very top layers of this.
00:13:43.03\00:13:45.55
So we will talk a little
more about this and of course
00:13:45.59\00:13:47.62
there are
extinctions along the way.
00:13:47.66\00:13:49.24
A major marine extinction,
something happened there that
00:13:49.28\00:13:51.67
took out a number of
species of marine animals.
00:13:51.71\00:13:56.89
Here's the biggest extinction
in terms of total number of
00:13:56.92\00:14:00.45
species that do not occur
anymore after that line was
00:14:00.49\00:14:03.98
between the Permian and the
Triassic and the KT boundary
00:14:04.02\00:14:07.47
between Cretaceous and
Tertiary where the dinosaurs
00:14:07.51\00:14:10.63
are last recorded.
00:14:10.67\00:14:12.80
So remember those things
and we will quiz you afterwards.
00:14:12.84\00:14:16.55
Remember I reference this
quote as one time being on the
00:14:24.73\00:14:27.57
Tyrrell Museum
as you entered in.
00:14:27.61\00:14:29.86
Well speak to the
earth and it will teach you,
00:14:29.89\00:14:32.16
we are going to speak to
the earth and let's see what
00:14:32.19\00:14:34.06
it teaches us tonight.
00:14:34.10\00:14:35.67
Now again James Usher came
up with those dates at 4004 BC,
00:14:35.70\00:14:41.02
how did he do that?
00:14:41.05\00:14:42.36
He did that because the
book of Genesis is remarkably
00:14:42.39\00:14:45.86
concerned about chronology,
I will go so far as to say
00:14:45.90\00:14:49.31
there is very few books of
the Bible more interested in
00:14:49.34\00:14:52.72
recording things
according to dates.
00:14:52.75\00:14:54.74
They are so specific and
so interested in recording
00:14:54.78\00:14:57.91
dates that even the
date of the flood is dated
00:14:57.95\00:14:59.91
to Noah's own age.
00:14:59.95\00:15:01.55
His birthday is
recorded in there and so on.
00:15:01.59\00:15:03.70
A lot of very interesting
things, the way the children are
00:15:03.73\00:15:06.25
begat in the record of Genesis.
00:15:06.29\00:15:08.71
Not only the year in
which the children are born but
00:15:08.74\00:15:11.18
how much longer the
person lived afterwards and
00:15:11.21\00:15:13.55
the total life span.
00:15:13.59\00:15:14.83
This is unusual amount of
information for the generations
00:15:14.86\00:15:17.17
recorded, it is though
the writer, whoever that is,
00:15:17.20\00:15:19.99
maybe Moses, seem to be very
interested in recording things
00:15:20.02\00:15:23.72
according to when they happened.
00:15:23.75\00:15:25.53
So the book of beginnings
is unusually interested in
00:15:25.56\00:15:27.91
chronology and that is how
Bishop Usher was able to come
00:15:27.95\00:15:30.26
up with that date.
00:15:30.30\00:15:31.72
Now people ask me this question.
00:15:31.76\00:15:34.30
Stan, I know that we are
talking about billions of years
00:15:35.81\00:15:39.58
and the Bible records seems
to be less, but isn't there a
00:15:39.61\00:15:43.35
reference that the earth
was void and without form.
00:15:43.38\00:15:46.80
Maybe the earth therefore was
4.5 billion years ago created
00:15:46.83\00:15:52.19
and maybe there was time
after, that kind of question.
00:15:52.22\00:15:55.36
Let's take a look at
that kind of thinking.
00:15:55.40\00:15:57.42
The Earth was
without form and void.
00:15:57.45\00:16:00.60
Let's take a look again at
some Hebrew, you are going to
00:16:00.64\00:16:03.59
learn some Hebrew again.
00:16:03.63\00:16:04.84
Here is the
problem for that thinking.
00:16:04.88\00:16:07.74
Does that solve the age of
the earth issue pastor Stan if
00:16:07.78\00:16:12.42
it is 4.5 billion years, does
that help us with dating the
00:16:12.46\00:16:17.07
rocks and the
answer is very simply, NO!
00:16:17.10\00:16:21.54
It does not help one iota.
00:16:21.57\00:16:23.54
Why? Because the issues
involving the dating of rocks is
00:16:23.57\00:16:28.33
this: in these layers between
the fossils as we find them,
00:16:28.36\00:16:33.08
we find layers
that have lava in them.
00:16:33.12\00:16:36.46
The lava flows are what
dates to millions of years.
00:16:36.50\00:16:40.31
So those are intertwined
in the fossil record.
00:16:40.34\00:16:44.23
We are not talking about
the very bottom of the rocks
00:16:44.26\00:16:46.43
where 4.5
billion years might work.
00:16:46.46\00:16:48.52
Were the earth was void and
without form, maybe there was
00:16:48.56\00:16:51.70
something that old if you
want to look at it that way.
00:16:51.73\00:16:54.78
But it doesn't help us with
the basic issue of dating how
00:16:54.82\00:16:57.83
old life is on earth.
00:16:57.87\00:17:00.38
Because the lava record is
between the fossils and so what
00:17:00.41\00:17:04.56
they do is date these layers
and come up with millions of
00:17:04.60\00:17:08.45
years in between and almost
always newer as you go up.
00:17:08.49\00:17:11.82
So that is a challenge and
we are going to talk about that
00:17:11.86\00:17:15.16
challenge this evening,
I'll give it my best shot.
00:17:15.19\00:17:18.03
So again the earth
was without form and void.
00:17:18.06\00:17:20.91
Well let's take a look at
that story a little bit in
00:17:20.95\00:17:24.62
scripture the two words
are Tohu and Bohu in Hebrew,
00:17:24.66\00:17:28.29
don't you like those?
00:17:28.33\00:17:29.75
Tohu and Bohu, kind
of like willy-nilly.
00:17:29.79\00:17:32.52
Toho and Bohu, the
earth was Toho and Bohu.
00:17:32.55\00:17:35.22
Now the "hu" on the end means
no, so it literally is saying
00:17:35.25\00:17:39.51
no "to" no "bo" okay?
00:17:39.54\00:17:42.92
Well that is Hebrew
for uninformed or unfilled,
00:17:42.96\00:17:47.36
literally no form no
fill, there wasn't any form
00:17:47.40\00:17:51.77
and there wasn't any fill,
00:17:51.81\00:17:53.38
so it was void and without form.
00:17:53.41\00:17:55.07
Okay, now let's take a look.
00:17:55.11\00:17:56.73
It is interesting that the
creation account has a little
00:17:56.77\00:18:00.53
pattern to it.
00:18:00.57\00:18:02.09
Why does God use a pattern?
00:18:02.12\00:18:03.75
Well this is interesting
because day one, two,
00:18:03.79\00:18:06.50
and three are forming
things, day four, five,
00:18:06.53\00:18:09.21
and six are filling things.
00:18:09.24\00:18:11.55
That is an interesting pattern
so the heavens are formed
00:18:11.59\00:18:17.63
and then filled
on opposite days.
00:18:17.67\00:18:20.06
Skies and sea, birds and
fish, dry land, animals and man.
00:18:20.10\00:18:24.34
So there is a pattern here
forming and then filling and of
00:18:24.38\00:18:28.21
course it ends with a seventh
day Sabbath as a memorial,
00:18:28.24\00:18:32.04
a reminder of what
had just taken place.
00:18:32.08\00:18:34.85
The celebration day to
enjoy what God had created.
00:18:34.89\00:18:38.46
So we will keep
on looking at this.
00:18:38.50\00:18:41.38
Now let's take a look at
that because some of this is
00:18:53.77\00:18:56.39
interesting in the wording.
00:18:56.42\00:18:58.72
Literally it says evening
and morning equal day one.
00:18:58.76\00:19:02.57
That is quite
literally with the Hebrew says.
00:19:02.60\00:19:04.72
Evening and morning are day one.
00:19:04.75\00:19:06.49
A lot of people ask about
the word yom, yom is Hebrew for
00:19:06.52\00:19:11.35
day, it is a word that is
used here to describe day.
00:19:11.39\00:19:13.99
A lot of people say, doesn't
the word yom, Hebrew for day,
00:19:14.03\00:19:21.35
can't that mean
different things?
00:19:21.38\00:19:23.03
Can it mean a period of time?
00:19:23.06\00:19:25.54
Can it mean an era?
00:19:25.58\00:19:26.78
Can that mean, frankly but
they are getting around to is,
00:19:26.82\00:19:29.05
can it mean millions of years?
00:19:29.08\00:19:31.23
Maybe there is some kind
of pattern, someone seen a
00:19:31.26\00:19:34.55
pattern in the creation
and maybe it is a roughly
00:19:34.58\00:19:37.83
equivalent
pattern to evolution even.
00:19:37.87\00:19:40.74
Some people have tried
to see that in the account.
00:19:40.78\00:19:43.26
Before I go up or down on
that I really want to study what
00:19:43.30\00:19:46.81
the account specifically is
saying in Hebrew and then we
00:19:46.85\00:19:50.32
will go
interpretation from there.
00:19:50.36\00:19:52.10
What was the writer saying?
00:19:52.14\00:19:55.18
Yom, what can yom mean?
00:19:55.21\00:19:58.18
Yom can mean, incidentally
a period of time and there are
00:19:58.22\00:20:00.61
indications, but
watch the wording in Hebrew.
00:20:00.64\00:20:03.10
Always, and it is significant
that the word is always,
00:20:13.33\00:20:15.55
283 times out of 283.
00:20:15.58\00:20:18.00
When there is a number added to
yom it means a 24 hour period.
00:20:18.03\00:20:21.67
Okay, what about
evening and morning's?
00:20:21.71\00:20:24.01
That happens 39 times out of 39.
00:20:24.04\00:20:33.94
So it seems like the writer
is trying to indicate that it
00:20:33.97\00:20:39.14
is a literal time.
00:20:39.18\00:20:40.59
Now here is a professor who
does not believe in a literal
00:20:40.62\00:20:43.28
creation, a
professor at Oxford University.
00:20:43.31\00:20:47.44
Now this is a skeptic in
terms of creation, but he knows
00:21:02.10\00:21:05.09
his Hebrew and what he is
saying is the writer of this
00:21:05.13\00:21:09.10
story in Hebrew was writing
it the best way he knew how to
00:21:09.13\00:21:13.06
indicate that he
believed it was 24 hour days.
00:21:13.10\00:21:16.66
Now, where you go with
that, of course is open for
00:21:16.69\00:21:20.26
everybody to do, but at
least let us get it clear,
00:21:20.29\00:21:23.20
at least I like the
idea of being clear on this,
00:21:23.23\00:21:26.06
that the writer was trying
to say in every way he knew how,
00:21:26.10\00:21:30.30
short of talking literal days
dummy, or something like that
00:21:30.33\00:21:34.50
in Hebrew addressing the reader.
00:21:34.53\00:21:36.51
He was saying it about as
strongly as he could with the
00:21:36.55\00:21:39.13
W's of limiting
terms according to the
00:21:39.16\00:21:44.20
Professor James Barr.
00:21:44.24\00:21:46.13
Here's the next issue that
people generally raise on the
00:21:46.16\00:21:50.91
subject of creation
account when it says God said:
00:21:50.95\00:21:53.65
now what is the question
that generally comes up on this?
00:22:06.91\00:22:09.23
We are talking about day four.
00:22:09.26\00:22:11.67
Is that not a good question?
00:22:17.23\00:22:19.00
That is a good question!
00:22:19.04\00:22:20.74
So at that point people
are saying come on it can't be
00:22:20.78\00:22:23.32
literally true if He has
light evening and morning how
00:22:23.35\00:22:25.86
can it be without
the Sun being present?
00:22:25.89\00:22:29.73
Or at least that
part of the story?
00:22:29.76\00:22:32.50
Well first of all there is
probably a theological reason
00:22:32.54\00:22:35.80
at least at
let's start with that.
00:22:35.84\00:22:38.16
The sun is the
biggest most important thing,
00:22:44.07\00:22:45.81
and if the sun is not there
we wouldn't have our crops,
00:22:45.85\00:22:47.67
the Sun is everything.
00:22:47.71\00:22:48.97
They used to celebrate
the birth date of the sun in
00:22:49.01\00:22:51.81
various cultures when
the sun came back into the
00:22:51.85\00:22:54.62
hemisphere there
were days of celebration.
00:22:54.66\00:22:57.52
In fact whenever it would
pass the equinox and suddenly
00:22:57.56\00:23:00.44
the days were
getting longer again,
00:23:00.48\00:23:01.87
longer than the nights.
00:23:01.91\00:23:03.84
In fact if you want to do
a little interesting history
00:23:03.87\00:23:06.88
you will find out the
December 25 is the birthday
00:23:06.91\00:23:12.83
of the Sun God.
00:23:12.87\00:23:14.59
The Sun God began to appear
on the Roman calendar way back
00:23:14.63\00:23:17.22
when it was a
day of celebration.
00:23:17.26\00:23:19.14
So the sun was being reborn,
hooray the days are getting
00:23:19.17\00:23:22.65
longer again and we are
moving toward spring and times
00:23:22.69\00:23:26.13
when we can plant and so forth.
00:23:26.16\00:23:27.59
The most popular object in
nature has always been the Sun.
00:23:27.62\00:23:31.46
It is interesting to me that
God places the Sun in a fairly
00:23:31.49\00:23:35.30
not so important role
in the creation account.
00:23:35.33\00:23:40.95
If you think about it even
today the protein Soup theory,
00:23:40.98\00:23:46.17
the way in which we may have
evolved from a primordial soup
00:23:46.20\00:23:51.62
is generally accounted as
the main force that got us here.
00:23:51.66\00:23:57.05
Even in that theory, it
is the energy of the sun.
00:23:57.08\00:24:00.01
So there is even a little
bit of reliance in the theory of
00:24:00.05\00:24:02.76
evolution upon the
Sun getting us here.
00:24:02.79\00:24:05.00
It is interesting from the
creation account that the sun
00:24:05.04\00:24:07.49
is considered
unimportant to God.
00:24:07.53\00:24:11.76
In fact in the book of
Revelation, in the book of
00:24:11.79\00:24:13.85
endings it says the
time when the sun is not
00:24:13.88\00:24:15.68
particularly important.
00:24:15.72\00:24:17.49
So it is interesting
the Sun is considered
00:24:22.95\00:24:26.21
to be a little bit less.
00:24:26.24\00:24:27.80
It is almost as God is saying
will listen I don't need the
00:24:27.83\00:24:30.64
sun for light, I can
do light without the sun.
00:24:30.68\00:24:32.72
I can measure time without
the sun, it is almost as though
00:24:32.76\00:24:36.42
think about the era in which
this was originally written,
00:24:36.46\00:24:40.24
when sun worship was really
the rage in ancient religions.
00:24:40.27\00:24:44.99
It is almost like God is saying,
the sun is just something
00:24:45.02\00:24:49.70
I made, it is
something I'm using.
00:24:49.74\00:24:52.21
But it is nothing
particularly great.
00:24:52.25\00:24:54.66
So how old was
everything that first Friday?
00:24:54.69\00:24:58.37
I know this is a
standard picture.
00:24:58.41\00:25:00.29
How old was
everything that first Friday?
00:25:00.32\00:25:04.07
At the most maybe a
day, how old did it look?
00:25:04.11\00:25:07.82
This would have
driven scientist nuts.
00:25:07.86\00:25:11.64
Incidentally, I have talked
with some scientists about this
00:25:11.68\00:25:14.85
very issue when I say what
if God created a parent age.
00:25:14.89\00:25:18.02
I will remember one of
getting almost particularly
00:25:18.06\00:25:21.07
visibly angry,
because that is not fair.
00:25:21.10\00:25:23.73
That is not fair, a scientist
should be able to observe
00:25:23.76\00:25:28.72
and get the correct
answer by observation.
00:25:28.76\00:25:30.81
So it is interesting
that God created a planet that
00:25:30.84\00:25:33.42
had a mature look.
00:25:33.45\00:25:34.88
Fruit on the trees, I don't
know if there were rings on the
00:25:34.91\00:25:38.13
trees, and of course the all
important question of whether
00:25:38.17\00:25:41.36
Adam and Eve had a
belly button comes in here
00:25:41.39\00:25:43.26
at some point.
00:25:43.30\00:25:44.66
But anyway, ha, ha!
00:25:44.70\00:25:46.79
So whatever world it was
there is no question that God
00:25:46.83\00:25:50.66
had it ready to be used
and mature probably had a quick
00:25:50.70\00:25:53.89
observation to look like it
was older than it really was.
00:25:53.92\00:25:57.08
I mean, what does a
new world look like?
00:25:57.11\00:25:58.74
I don't know.
00:25:58.78\00:25:59.98
Question, why did it take
God so long to create the Earth?
00:26:00.01\00:26:03.75
And that is a
very good question,
00:26:03.79\00:26:05.37
why did it take Him so long?
00:26:05.41\00:26:07.33
Couldn't God have said
okay let's there be everything?
00:26:07.37\00:26:09.36
So why not do that?
00:26:09.40\00:26:12.42
Why spread it over a
period of six or seven days.
00:26:12.46\00:26:15.89
Why do that?
00:26:15.92\00:26:17.15
The question I think is
answered with this, God was
00:26:17.19\00:26:20.01
obviously interested in setting
up a pattern for something.
00:26:20.05\00:26:22.89
The year, obviously you
know your science, the year is
00:26:22.93\00:26:27.82
based on the earth revolving
around the Sun one revolution.
00:26:27.85\00:26:33.05
You know that the month,
the month is about the moon
00:26:33.08\00:26:37.66
roughly circling planet Earth.
00:26:37.70\00:26:39.69
You know a day is a rotation
of earth on its axis 24 hours.
00:26:39.72\00:26:45.47
Well we got those but
where do we get the week from?
00:26:45.51\00:26:47.90
Where do we get the week from?
00:26:47.94\00:26:50.13
There is a lot of study
and question about this and
00:26:50.16\00:26:52.66
some people will say
it is a planetary week.
00:26:52.70\00:26:54.34
But really it appears that
there is not a great answer
00:26:54.38\00:26:59.11
other than taking
a look at this story.
00:26:59.14\00:27:02.10
He blessed and sanctified
the Sabbath day, the seventh day
00:27:08.86\00:27:12.36
of the week because it
was a way of measuring time.
00:27:12.39\00:27:16.49
Now again about the
origin of the week itself,
00:27:16.53\00:27:18.96
sometimes people say it is
based on the seven observable
00:27:18.99\00:27:22.48
planets, stars, sun,
moon and the five reasonably
00:27:22.52\00:27:26.29
observable planets.
00:27:26.33\00:27:28.18
There is no question that
those names have been given
00:27:28.21\00:27:31.73
to the days of the week.
00:27:31.77\00:27:33.44
It is interesting, but actually
we know that the Sabbath
00:27:33.47\00:27:35.93
is Saturday because
the Roman soldier wrote:
00:27:35.96\00:27:38.72
so we know for at least
2000 years, at least until the
00:27:51.49\00:27:54.61
time of the Romans, the week
has gone continually without
00:27:54.64\00:27:58.41
any great losses, the
world hasn't suddenly forgotten
00:27:58.45\00:28:02.18
a few days here or there.
00:28:02.22\00:28:04.43
In fact some people take the
question of continuousness of
00:28:04.47\00:28:10.91
the week as a big
issue, take a look at this:
00:28:10.94\00:28:13.94
So apparently the seven-day
week which is found throughout
00:28:27.98\00:28:30.92
the world is pretty well
based on the creation account.
00:28:30.96\00:28:34.28
Again we talk about dragons,
tomorrow we'll talk about the
00:28:34.32\00:28:37.61
flood stories, again some
ancient memories of events
00:28:37.64\00:28:40.80
a believer in the Bible
appeared to be spread throughout
00:28:40.84\00:28:43.97
the cultures of the
world, including the
00:28:44.00\00:28:46.11
seven-day creation week.
00:28:46.15\00:28:48.24
So there is
little history there.
00:28:50.12\00:28:52.05
Now, let's get
back to the Bible.
00:28:52.09\00:28:53.95
Evolutionist Bible
the geological column,
00:28:53.98\00:28:56.85
because if we understand
this correctly we should be
00:28:56.89\00:28:59.42
able to interpret everything
00:28:59.45\00:29:00.65
as being clearly what
happened in the Earth past.
00:29:00.68\00:29:04.68
That is what we look at
when we look at geologic column.
00:29:04.71\00:29:07.43
Incidentally if you look at
the Geologic Column you would
00:29:07.46\00:29:10.14
know this is part
of the Grand Canyon.
00:29:10.18\00:29:12.64
Do you see how
flat these layers are?
00:29:12.67\00:29:15.28
Look at how table
flat many of them are.
00:29:15.31\00:29:17.84
All represent millions of
years, these are millions of
00:29:17.88\00:29:20.89
years in here
according to the standard model.
00:29:20.93\00:29:23.55
Do you see an awful lot
of erosion between layers?
00:29:23.59\00:29:26.15
You see erosion on the outside
of these canyons here now.
00:29:26.18\00:29:29.10
This is a Canyon, so for
what ever reason canyons have
00:29:29.13\00:29:32.45
only taken place last few
years, at least in this region
00:29:32.49\00:29:35.78
according to the standard model.
00:29:35.81\00:29:37.66
But look at how flat that
is, you don't see a lot of time,
00:29:37.70\00:29:41.22
shall we say, in
between those layers.
00:29:41.26\00:29:43.39
It is just a thought.
00:29:43.42\00:29:45.04
Okay this is
Geology 101, here we are.
00:29:47.38\00:29:49.43
I know that you
want to know this.
00:29:49.47\00:29:51.48
Number one, sedimentary rock:
00:29:51.52\00:29:54.37
all these are sedimentary rocks.
00:30:01.26\00:30:03.14
Number two:
00:30:03.18\00:30:04.89
rocks that ignited and were
on fire, molten rock, they were
00:30:05.92\00:30:09.85
liquid and then they cooled
into something that is a rock.
00:30:09.88\00:30:13.78
Basalt is lava and they are
the second most common type.
00:30:15.82\00:30:20.39
Number three: metamorphic rocks
that have gone through pressure
00:30:20.42\00:30:23.93
and heat changes which
change the configuration.
00:30:23.97\00:30:28.44
Now all these three
types of rock the most common,
00:30:28.48\00:30:32.92
by a mile, is
sedimentary rock, a good 75%.
00:30:32.96\00:30:37.69
I've seen estimates anywhere
from 65 on up, but in almost
00:30:37.72\00:30:42.90
all cases sedimentary
rock is generally cemented with
00:30:42.93\00:30:48.08
some action by water.
00:30:48.11\00:30:49.85
Water is often present to
help them cement in some way.
00:30:49.89\00:30:53.35
I realize this sedimentary
materials include soil and so
00:30:53.38\00:30:56.81
forth, but on the
way to something harder.
00:30:56.85\00:30:59.25
So let's take a look
at some of these things.
00:30:59.28\00:31:01.65
How can you tell
how old the rock is?
00:31:01.68\00:31:04.26
Sometimes they come with dates.
00:31:04.29\00:31:06.76
That is where? That is
Plymouth rock in Massachusetts.
00:31:10.53\00:31:14.86
Someone did actually carve
that on to the rock symbolizing
00:31:14.89\00:31:18.50
when the Mayflower landed,
but most rocks do not have dates
00:31:18.53\00:31:22.11
stamped on them, so how
do we know how old rocks are?
00:31:22.14\00:31:25.49
We are going to talk now
about radiometric dating.
00:31:25.52\00:31:28.84
I hope you hang
in there with me.
00:31:28.87\00:31:30.18
We are going to
exercise your brain as we talk
00:31:30.21\00:31:32.69
a little bit technically.
00:31:32.73\00:31:34.25
Assumptions,
radiometric means radio waves,
00:31:34.28\00:31:37.38
radiometric a
measurement of waves.
00:31:37.41\00:31:39.06
The assumption of
radiometric dating are these,
00:31:39.09\00:31:42.46
there are three.
00:31:42.49\00:31:43.59
But the materials inside
of rocks decay at a constant
00:31:48.54\00:31:52.30
observable rate, that
is an assumption, a change.
00:31:52.33\00:31:56.06
Between the kind of things
that are in the rock are known.
00:32:00.65\00:32:03.43
You understand what they
are and you know what the
00:32:03.46\00:32:05.34
portions are when things start.
00:32:05.37\00:32:07.84
During the time that the rock
is going through that decay,
00:32:07.88\00:32:13.56
nothing has changed the
rock itself by sending something
00:32:13.59\00:32:19.24
in or taking something
out, it's a closed system.
00:32:19.27\00:32:22.91
So it wouldn't be
contaminated by other things.
00:32:22.95\00:32:26.55
Radioactivity is a
very interesting thing.
00:32:26.59\00:32:30.62
I'm not sure if you can see
this Little Rock right here,
00:32:30.65\00:32:33.30
but this Little
Rock is uranium ore.
00:32:33.34\00:32:36.40
I've done a couple lectures
north of the border and you
00:32:36.44\00:32:40.47
will be happy to know that
our border guards can pick up
00:32:40.50\00:32:44.25
something like this that
is radioactive and stop me and
00:32:44.29\00:32:47.27
ask me for one hour to
explain why I would be carrying
00:32:47.30\00:32:50.25
something
radioactive over the border.
00:32:50.29\00:32:52.43
Anyway this is uranium
ore from the Spokane area.
00:32:52.47\00:32:58.06
It is as I speak decaying,
the uranium in this is decaying.
00:32:58.10\00:33:02.44
It is sending off little
bits of particles in different
00:33:02.47\00:33:05.65
directions and if you had
a Geiger counter on this you
00:33:05.69\00:33:08.79
would be able to pick up little
beep sounds of particles coming
00:33:08.83\00:33:14.99
off of that, so that is
what we are talking about.
00:33:15.02\00:33:17.28
Radiometric dating, you do
not date, listen carefully,
00:33:17.31\00:33:20.54
you do not date sedimentary
rocks, at least it is much
00:33:20.57\00:33:23.76
more difficult,
you date igneous rocks.
00:33:23.80\00:33:27.17
You date rocks that
were liquid at one time
00:33:27.20\00:33:30.54
and then cooled.
00:33:30.58\00:33:31.91
That is the standard way of
dating rocks and we will let
00:33:31.94\00:33:34.13
you know why in
just a little bit.
00:33:34.16\00:33:36.57
Now here is the
concept of half-lives.
00:33:36.61\00:33:38.95
This is just
riveting, hang in there.
00:33:38.98\00:33:41.25
Half-lives, this is the way
they measure radiometric decay.
00:33:41.29\00:33:46.57
Understand that time is
measured, and this is all about
00:33:46.61\00:33:51.86
time, time is measured at
the rate in which things decay
00:33:51.89\00:33:56.38
from the parent
material to daughter material.
00:33:56.42\00:34:00.83
When it takes that long,
let's say one period of time,
00:34:00.87\00:34:06.75
for things to get
to half as much parent,
00:34:06.79\00:34:10.15
at this line as daughter,
that is considered the time
00:34:10.18\00:34:14.21
we would call a half-life.
00:34:14.25\00:34:16.43
That is the way to measure it.
00:34:16.46\00:34:18.57
Now that means if you double
that amount of time you will
00:34:18.60\00:34:21.85
continue that same rate and
loose half of what was there
00:34:21.89\00:34:25.10
left, so now you are
down to a quarter of it.
00:34:25.13\00:34:27.87
Another half-life and you
are down to an eight of it and
00:34:27.90\00:34:31.57
so forth and so it goes.
00:34:31.60\00:34:33.23
When you look at all the
amounts of the daughter and the
00:34:33.26\00:34:36.82
parent isotopes and you
know how long it takes for that
00:34:36.85\00:34:40.06
to decay, it is a way of
setting the clock and going back
00:34:40.09\00:34:42.81
and figuring, okay this
has been decaying for so long.
00:34:42.84\00:34:45.52
That is the concept.
00:34:45.56\00:34:47.99
Now you have
radiometric dating figured out.
00:34:48.02\00:34:51.20
Now let's talk about carbon-14
for just a little minute,
00:34:51.23\00:34:55.94
because carbon-14 is
formed in an interesting way.
00:34:55.98\00:34:58.88
I will run that by
again if you'd like to see it.
00:34:58.92\00:35:01.75
It took me a while to make
so yes we will see it again.
00:35:01.79\00:35:06.60
You have a neutron coming
from outer space and it finds
00:35:06.63\00:35:11.09
some nitrogen 14 in the
atmosphere and smacks it apart
00:35:11.13\00:35:15.57
and knocks off a proton
and leaves you with carbon-14.
00:35:15.60\00:35:20.01
Carbon-14 then goes
from there into the trees,
00:35:20.05\00:35:23.85
usually into the trees
or water, let's call the
00:35:23.89\00:35:27.66
trees for an illustration.
00:35:27.70\00:35:29.58
The trees become food,
the plants in the world become
00:35:29.61\00:35:33.15
food two little critters,
living things like mice.
00:35:33.19\00:35:36.95
They eat the leaves and
get the carbon-14 into their
00:35:36.98\00:35:40.71
bodies that way.
00:35:40.74\00:35:42.23
Well then unfortunately
they stop eating things and that
00:35:42.26\00:35:46.63
usually means that they die.
00:35:46.66\00:35:48.16
So carbon-14 does not continue
to go inside their body.
00:35:48.19\00:35:52.71
That means that carbon-14
now begins to break down
00:35:52.75\00:35:55.36
to more stable things.
00:35:55.39\00:35:56.98
The measurement therefore,
the carbon-14 is still left in
00:35:57.01\00:36:02.14
what ever organic materials
you have is the way they
00:36:02.17\00:36:05.22
measure how long it has
been since that was alive.
00:36:05.26\00:36:08.24
That is why they date organic
material, that way carbon-14
00:36:08.27\00:36:11.95
loses some things it
becomes nitrogen-14 again.
00:36:11.98\00:36:15.40
That is how they measure
against regular carbon 12
00:36:15.44\00:36:18.82
and so on, so that
is it in a nutshell.
00:36:18.86\00:36:21.61
The problem is carbon-14
dating is pretty well know and
00:36:21.65\00:36:26.18
here is an
in-house comment about
00:36:26.22\00:36:28.48
the accuracy of carbon-14.
00:36:28.52\00:36:30.59
It's no wonder surely
that the remaining have come
00:37:03.91\00:37:06.95
to be accepted.
00:37:06.99\00:37:07.96
So this is by
Robert Lee writing in the
00:37:07.97\00:37:12.18
Anthropological
Journal of Canada.
00:37:12.22\00:37:14.42
I have to say that since it
was written there are number
00:37:14.45\00:37:17.44
concerns that carbon-14 dating
it's probably been tweaked
00:37:17.47\00:37:20.42
and fixed a little bit.
00:37:20.46\00:37:21.48
They probably have
better methods today.
00:37:21.51\00:37:23.54
Carbon-14 dating is interesting
because it has only a
00:37:23.58\00:37:27.06
5700 year half-life.
00:37:27.10\00:37:29.43
So with a short half-life
like that it means it quickly
00:37:29.47\00:37:32.49
breaks down and it is not
good for millions of years.
00:37:32.53\00:37:35.29
You can't use it to date
things millions of years,
00:37:35.33\00:37:38.06
only thousands of years.
00:37:38.09\00:37:39.48
It is also going on the
assumption that the amount of
00:37:39.52\00:37:42.26
carbon in the air is consistent.
00:37:42.30\00:37:44.78
There is a problem with that
too because recently they've
00:37:44.81\00:37:48.65
done, even from our last
few years of nuclear testing,
00:37:48.68\00:37:52.46
and I'm not exactly sure of
all the physics involved with
00:37:52.49\00:37:55.85
this but somehow or other really
recent dates are now eschewed
00:37:55.88\00:38:00.04
because of the atomic
testing they have done.
00:38:00.07\00:38:02.87
It has messed up the
atmosphere and so it has bumped
00:38:02.91\00:38:05.76
off the way of
measuring the consistent numbers
00:38:05.80\00:38:09.13
in the atmosphere.
00:38:09.16\00:38:10.35
So they can only go
older than 50 or 100 years.
00:38:10.38\00:38:13.63
It's got to be older to get
past that, the change in the
00:38:13.66\00:38:17.26
atmosphere, so it is assuming
the atmosphere stays the same.
00:38:17.30\00:38:20.87
Now the flood account,
the flood would have been most
00:38:20.90\00:38:23.63
definitely changing the
carbon levels in the atmosphere.
00:38:23.67\00:38:26.36
And we will talk a
little bit about that so it sets
00:38:26.39\00:38:28.10
the clock a little bit off.
00:38:28.13\00:38:29.75
Well I'm giving
you a lot in a hurry.
00:38:29.79\00:38:32.71
I did one thing that every
guy that has ever been born
00:38:32.74\00:38:36.58
wants to do, and that is on
my 25th wedding anniversary I
00:38:36.61\00:38:40.41
walked were
lava was flowing out.
00:38:40.44\00:38:43.90
I played in the lava, isn't
that what everyone wants to do?
00:38:43.94\00:38:48.42
Guys, is that not cool?
00:38:48.46\00:38:49.94
That is so awesome.
00:38:49.98\00:38:51.42
We went to Hawaii for
our wedding anniversary,
00:38:54.53\00:38:56.90
which is not a bad
idea, right ladies?
00:38:56.93\00:38:59.10
Hawaii is good for wedding
anniversaries and that will work
00:38:59.14\00:39:02.50
It happened we scheduled
our days on the big Island and
00:39:02.54\00:39:05.87
Kilauea beckoned.
00:39:05.90\00:39:07.86
Kilauea is still
erupting after all these years.
00:39:07.90\00:39:10.46
The longest continuous
eruption in the world.
00:39:10.49\00:39:12.98
I am not sure what the
years are now, I want to say
00:39:13.02\00:39:15.51
30 or 40, something like
that, it's been a few years
00:39:15.55\00:39:18.01
that it has been erupting.
00:39:18.04\00:39:19.50
The stuff was flowing down
the side of the hill so I took
00:39:19.54\00:39:22.71
out to find it and the
Park Ranger said it is up there
00:39:22.75\00:39:25.88
where you see the
vent, but mirages from heat,
00:39:25.92\00:39:28.52
that is where it is.
00:39:28.56\00:39:29.53
I'm going to go there, so I
walked miles up there and it
00:39:29.56\00:39:32.01
took me quite a while, but
I found a place where it was
00:39:32.05\00:39:34.46
coming out and I
took a long stick.
00:39:34.50\00:39:36.89
I will tell you
what lava is hot.
00:39:36.93\00:39:39.25
I knew what you have
heard is true, lava is hot.
00:39:39.29\00:39:42.91
That is as close as I could
get and I was really feeling
00:39:42.94\00:39:45.84
it there and you'll see it
set my walking stick on fire.
00:39:45.87\00:39:48.71
One of the things I wanted
to do just for the fun of it,
00:39:48.74\00:39:51.89
and probably entirely
illegal, was I brought a little
00:39:51.92\00:39:55.04
bit of lava back with me.
00:39:55.07\00:39:56.59
I got my stick and stuck
it to this metal cup and put
00:39:56.62\00:40:01.78
it in there and walkout with it.
00:40:01.82\00:40:03.79
If you're in a national
Park you are not supposed to do
00:40:03.82\00:40:06.87
that, but anyway there is
acres of it being formed as we
00:40:06.90\00:40:09.91
speak and I think
they won't be short.
00:40:09.94\00:40:11.65
I'd stuck it in here and I would
really like to know what the
00:40:14.71\00:40:17.62
Potassium Argon
dating is on this.
00:40:17.65\00:40:19.66
We will talk a little
now about how they date lava.
00:40:19.70\00:40:23.88
I was there when it was
born so I think I know the date.
00:40:23.92\00:40:27.11
I'm not sure what the science
would be as they look at it.
00:40:27.14\00:40:30.36
This was a picture I took
up close with this stuff oozing
00:40:30.40\00:40:33.64
out, very interesting, it
is just amazing as you look
00:40:33.68\00:40:36.86
through some cracks in the
rock and see the rivers flowing
00:40:36.89\00:40:40.00
underneath more rapidly.
00:40:40.03\00:40:41.86
Very interesting.
00:40:41.89\00:40:43.81
The way that
they date things is:
00:40:43.84\00:40:46.19
most radiometric dating
that dates into the millions of
00:40:49.74\00:40:53.82
years is done off of
lava, almost all, 80% or so.
00:40:53.86\00:40:58.11
As you will see in a minute.
00:40:58.14\00:40:59.37
Potassium 40 to Aragon
40 is generally the method
00:40:59.41\00:41:03.18
used for dating rocks.
00:41:03.22\00:41:05.40
Now the potassium to Aragon
half-life is 1 in a quarter
00:41:05.44\00:41:08.90
billion years, so has
lots of age, its a long scale.
00:41:08.94\00:41:12.37
Remember carbon-14 is
only 57 hundred years.
00:41:12.41\00:41:14.95
We have a long one here
that breaks down very slowly,
00:41:14.98\00:41:18.15
so it is good for
very old age supposedly.
00:41:18.19\00:41:21.41
Here are probably the most
common ways of dating for long
00:41:21.44\00:41:25.50
ages, not carbon-14, but for
long ages, millions of years.
00:41:25.54\00:41:29.43
Potassium argon has pretty
much been used for 80% of the
00:41:29.46\00:41:33.32
time, I'm not
sure that is true now.
00:41:33.35\00:41:35.12
Isochron dating is more common,
but I think they still use
00:41:35.16\00:41:38.18
Potassium Argon as
something of a base.
00:41:38.22\00:41:40.90
Now here is the issue, again
the lava are in these layers.
00:41:40.93\00:41:45.80
These layers date out to
millions of years in between the
00:41:45.84\00:41:50.68
fossils according to
the method that we saw.
00:41:50.71\00:41:53.52
Lava flows date
to millions of years.
00:41:53.55\00:41:55.48
That is the issue of trying to
figure out how, if the biblical
00:41:55.51\00:41:59.65
account is correct and if
the fossil record being present
00:41:59.68\00:42:03.20
because of a flood, how are
we getting dates like this in
00:42:03.23\00:42:06.71
between the layers?
00:42:06.74\00:42:08.11
A tough question, I told
you it was a tough question.
00:42:08.15\00:42:11.32
Now here's the other thing
that is over on the other side
00:42:11.35\00:42:14.49
of the coin, issues for dating.
00:42:14.53\00:42:16.25
We are going to take
a look at Radiometric
00:42:16.29\00:42:18.24
dating anomalies.
00:42:18.28\00:42:19.67
Radiometric dating does
not always agree with itself.
00:42:19.70\00:42:22.60
It is just one issue, one
answer, it is not a complete one
00:42:22.64\00:42:26.08
It is a partial one.
00:42:26.12\00:42:27.97
Here is an example
of dates not agreeing.
00:42:28.00\00:42:30.32
This is a cutaway and it
shows where they dated from two
00:42:33.82\00:42:36.97
different places of rock.
00:42:37.00\00:42:38.81
At the top they dated a flow
that came down at the side of
00:42:38.85\00:42:41.87
the canyon there and they
got these differences of years.
00:42:41.90\00:42:44.89
MY means 1 million years.
00:42:44.92\00:42:49.72
So here is one that is
only 100,000 years, oh that is
00:42:49.75\00:42:55.22
17 million years, so
that is quite a range there.
00:42:55.25\00:43:00.68
100 thousand to 17 million.
00:43:00.71\00:43:02.96
Here are billions of years
this is just on the top and it
00:43:02.99\00:43:06.74
is a tremendous difference
in the different methods of
00:43:06.78\00:43:10.49
dating the same rock.
00:43:10.52\00:43:12.23
Then just for interest they
dated the Cárdenas basalt way
00:43:12.26\00:43:16.17
down at the bottom, and they
got years they were actually
00:43:16.20\00:43:20.08
for the most part
younger than the rocks on top.
00:43:20.11\00:43:22.50
So there's something not quite
right with the clock there.
00:43:22.53\00:43:26.57
This is just one illustration,
having said that, we still
00:43:26.61\00:43:30.62
have some challenges.
00:43:30.65\00:43:32.13
Mount Saint Helens
lava was formed in 1986.
00:43:32.17\00:43:34.56
You would say oh
wait a minute 1980.
00:43:34.59\00:43:36.17
The lava flowed in 86, we
got some lava but it didn't make
00:43:36.20\00:43:41.22
the news so much.
00:43:41.25\00:43:42.41
Millions of years, see the
domes that were formed from then
00:43:42.45\00:43:46.18
are giving quite a bit older
dates in the millions of years.
00:43:46.21\00:43:49.91
We know obviously
that that cannot be so.
00:43:49.95\00:43:53.54
Sometimes there is a
problem with radiometric dating.
00:43:53.57\00:43:56.29
Here's the sense some matrix
and based on the level that it
00:43:56.32\00:43:59.44
is on the geological column.
00:43:59.48\00:44:01.26
It is assumed to be
225 million years old.
00:44:01.30\00:44:06.30
Here is a piece of wood
fragment that was inside the
00:44:06.33\00:44:10.94
sandstone encircled
and it was carbon dated to
00:44:10.97\00:44:14.31
much more recent.
00:44:14.34\00:44:16.06
We have many kinds of things
like that, it is almost when
00:44:16.10\00:44:18.47
you have a piece of
carbon in some layer that it is
00:44:18.51\00:44:21.72
going to date differently.
00:44:21.76\00:44:23.28
Here is another one from
the Jurassic period and yet
00:44:23.31\00:44:27.54
20,000 years to 28,000 years
this carbonized tree stump.
00:44:27.57\00:44:30.98
Sometimes we get that, but
now let's take a look at some
00:44:31.01\00:44:34.39
other issues and
that is living fossils.
00:44:34.42\00:44:37.73
I have a few things to
show you from up front here.
00:44:37.77\00:44:40.77
First of all living
fossils are always a challenge.
00:44:40.80\00:44:43.77
Here's a great
story from recent history,
00:44:43.80\00:44:48.87
reasonably recent
history, here's a Coelacanth.
00:44:48.91\00:44:51.28
Here is a copy of the same thing
00:44:51.32\00:44:54.70
you see up there basically.
00:44:54.74\00:44:56.10
That is an impression of
what was thought to be a 410
00:44:56.13\00:45:00.18
million-year-old,
that's 80% of the
00:45:00.22\00:45:03.23
geological column almost.
00:45:03.27\00:45:05.07
410 million-year-old fossil
of an interesting looking,
00:45:05.10\00:45:09.57
an archaic looking fish called
Coelacanth, and they lasted
00:45:09.60\00:45:12.91
for hundreds of millions of
years according to the standard
00:45:12.95\00:45:16.74
chronology up until almost the
end of the Cretaceous period.
00:45:16.77\00:45:20.53
That is the period when
the dinosaurs disappeared.
00:45:20.56\00:45:24.16
They would talk about here is
evolution, because if you look
00:45:31.96\00:45:37.15
at the two lower fins there,
they have a pair of fins that
00:45:37.18\00:45:42.09
looked like something that
would grow into feet over a
00:45:42.12\00:45:46.05
few years so it looked
like it was on its way to land
00:45:46.08\00:45:49.97
dwelling kind of animal.
00:45:50.00\00:45:51.87
So they were all excited
about this and felt this was
00:45:51.91\00:45:54.64
evolution in Variety.
00:45:54.68\00:45:59.11
Of course you know the story
in 1938 of Margaret Latimer.
00:45:59.14\00:46:03.63
Marjorie Latimer a museum
director down in South Africa.
00:46:03.66\00:46:07.26
She heard that a local
fisherman caught an interesting
00:46:07.30\00:46:10.86
Fish and she checked
it out and acquired it.
00:46:10.90\00:46:14.46
She tried terribly to find
a freezer, or a refrigerator
00:46:14.50\00:46:19.30
big enough to put it in.
00:46:19.34\00:46:20.68
She couldn't find it and
the thing was decaying, so she
00:46:20.71\00:46:23.72
reluctantly had it stuffed.
00:46:23.75\00:46:26.86
All the innerds were
lost, by the time science found
00:46:26.90\00:46:30.28
out about it they were
deeply unhappy because they
00:46:30.32\00:46:33.67
lost the rest of the fish.
00:46:33.70\00:46:34.70
It was obvious they have
found a Coelacanth, a living
00:46:34.73\00:46:38.45
Coelacanth and it made the
news and to this day they keep
00:46:38.49\00:46:42.17
finding Coelacanths
around the Comoros Islands in
00:46:42.21\00:46:45.19
Madagascar and South
the Indian Ocean on the east
00:46:45.22\00:46:48.17
side of Southern Africa.
00:46:48.20\00:46:50.45
They have been finding
literally I think now the number
00:46:50.48\00:46:53.84
up to hundreds of finding
these including they have
00:46:53.87\00:46:56.94
video taped them and
interestingly they have seen
00:46:56.98\00:46:59.98
them along the bottom of the
ocean where they feed and live.
00:47:00.01\00:47:04.67
They noted that what they
use these fins for are swimming.
00:47:04.71\00:47:09.34
It is just a thought!
00:47:11.62\00:47:13.30
So they are not
walking along the bottom.
00:47:13.33\00:47:18.35
So that is interesting and
here's a living fossil, probably
00:47:18.38\00:47:20.78
the most famous
example of a living fossil.
00:47:20.82\00:47:23.10
Again it hasn't changed hardly
at all in 400 million years.
00:47:23.13\00:47:29.26
That's according to
the standard chronology.
00:47:29.29\00:47:31.43
That is quite an
interesting living fossil.
00:47:31.47\00:47:33.57
Have you ever
been to Massachusetts
00:47:33.61\00:47:35.71
and seen these things?
00:47:35.74\00:47:37.51
There on the beach and
they give me the jitters.
00:47:37.54\00:47:40.20
Anyway a horseshoe crab today
and here's a Horseshoe Crab
00:47:40.23\00:47:44.31
fossil supposedly
400 million years old.
00:47:44.34\00:47:47.19
It hasn't changed too much,
it looks primitive and old.
00:47:47.23\00:47:49.77
It looks weird, like a
space crab or something.
00:47:49.80\00:47:52.47
But anyway it hasn't changed
much in the fossil records.
00:47:54.20\00:47:57.27
So consider
another living fossil.
00:47:57.31\00:48:00.21
Now they just
recently found this ant.
00:48:00.25\00:48:03.09
They had a couple and they
fell apart before they could
00:48:03.12\00:48:07.43
study it, and then
somebody else found one about
00:48:07.47\00:48:09.89
three or four years ago.
00:48:09.93\00:48:11.24
A graduate student found
one of these blind funny looking
00:48:11.27\00:48:17.02
ants and the name of
this ant in Latin now.
00:48:17.06\00:48:22.61
Is Ant from Mars, because
it is such an unusual looking
00:48:22.64\00:48:26.44
ant and the significance
of this ant is that this is a
00:48:26.48\00:48:30.29
virtual clone of what
they thought the oldest known
00:48:30.33\00:48:34.11
fossilized record of ants were.
00:48:34.14\00:48:37.68
They thought they were extinct,
this kind of ant yet after
00:48:37.71\00:48:41.42
120 million years
they found one alive.
00:48:41.46\00:48:46.72
So here is another living
fossil recently found, and it
00:48:46.75\00:48:49.82
hadn't changed significantly
in 120 million years.
00:48:49.86\00:48:54.69
Gingko Tree leaves, I don't
know if you know what a Gingko
00:48:54.73\00:49:00.07
tree looks like,
everybody likes ginkgo trees.
00:49:00.11\00:49:03.23
Here is a Gingko tree fossil
that is supposedly 50 million
00:49:03.27\00:49:06.91
years old, A fossil impression
that I am holding right
00:49:06.95\00:49:10.56
here is very
similar to the one up there.
00:49:10.59\00:49:12.00
Right here is a leaf
from a living Gingko tree,
00:49:12.03\00:49:17.71
can you see that?
00:49:17.74\00:49:18.99
It is very, very similar.
00:49:19.03\00:49:20.94
It fits in there real well,
not a lot of change in Gingko
00:49:20.98\00:49:24.87
leaves in all the years,
and even the earliest ones that
00:49:24.90\00:49:28.59
date up to 270 million years
are very similar to the ones
00:49:28.63\00:49:32.29
that are 50 million
years old in the fossil record
00:49:32.32\00:49:34.53
according to the
standard chronology.
00:49:34.57\00:49:36.99
So we have these kinds of
living fossils, even all the
00:49:37.02\00:49:39.77
changes that have taken place
in terms of the environment
00:49:39.81\00:49:42.53
world it seems like
they haven't changed much.
00:49:42.56\00:49:45.10
Now let me give you a story
that is very interesting it
00:49:45.14\00:49:47.46
has to do with a pine tree.
00:49:47.50\00:49:49.43
This is in Australia not
terribly far from Sydney.
00:49:49.47\00:49:54.69
This is one of
the parks there called
00:49:54.72\00:49:57.29
Wollemi National Park in
Australia and there are a number
00:49:57.32\00:50:00.90
of canyons and deep areas
in which you can climb down in
00:50:00.93\00:50:04.48
and see these
different kinds of habitats.
00:50:04.51\00:50:07.04
It is a quite a bit of
different habitats there.
00:50:07.08\00:50:09.23
Well about 14 years ago one
of the Park Rangers, a young
00:50:09.27\00:50:13.16
man named David Noble was
walking and hiking and thought
00:50:13.19\00:50:16.69
he would check out a few areas
that he had been into before.
00:50:16.72\00:50:20.63
When he got down into the
park in a certain area he found
00:50:20.66\00:50:24.54
some trees that he
had never seen before.
00:50:24.57\00:50:27.01
He wasn't sure
exactly what they were.
00:50:27.05\00:50:29.42
As it turned out he unwittingly
discovered and brought
00:50:29.46\00:50:33.35
some samples back and showed
it to some other scientists.
00:50:33.38\00:50:37.05
He came back with what appeared
to be what is now called
00:50:37.09\00:50:40.73
the Wollemi Pine.
00:50:40.76\00:50:42.41
The Wollemi Pine, here is
one right here, a genuine one.
00:50:42.44\00:50:45.19
A living fossil, how about that?
00:50:45.23\00:50:49.14
This is from the ones found
in Australia only 14 years ago.
00:50:49.18\00:50:53.35
As it stands today there
are only 100 living mature
00:50:53.39\00:50:57.09
trees left standing in
this park and a very well-kept
00:50:57.12\00:51:01.26
secret area, but this
tree was not known to exist yet
00:51:01.29\00:51:05.39
here it is a living
fossil that has been discovered.
00:51:05.43\00:51:10.81
It is an unusual tree,
but beautiful and they are
00:51:10.85\00:51:15.10
propagating them now and
selling them to people who
00:51:15.13\00:51:19.34
are interested in that.
00:51:19.38\00:51:20.89
It is a beautiful living
fossil, but up to 14 years ago
00:51:20.93\00:51:24.57
as far as people
knew, they were all fossils.
00:51:24.60\00:51:28.26
But apparently there they are.
00:51:28.30\00:51:30.62
So we have examples that
are being found almost regularly
00:51:30.65\00:51:33.74
now, living fossils that
haven't apparently changed.
00:51:33.77\00:51:36.05
It is an issue
for dating the Earth.
00:51:36.09\00:51:38.27
What other issues do we
have for dating the Earth?
00:51:38.30\00:51:40.36
Miracles of preservations.
00:51:40.40\00:51:42.05
Miracles that should not
be easily explained if you
00:51:42.09\00:51:45.74
have the Uniformitarian model.
00:51:45.78\00:51:47.43
These are some fossil
leaves that are from Australia
00:51:47.47\00:51:50.17
that date to be 60 million
years old and still had some
00:51:50.21\00:51:52.87
flexibility to them,
still had some feel to them.
00:51:52.91\00:51:55.96
Of course you know about
the soft tissue that they found
00:52:03.71\00:52:05.29
in there which is a
difficult issue to explain how
00:52:05.32\00:52:08.25
well it is preserved after
supposedly 65 million years
00:52:08.28\00:52:11.17
of being buried.
00:52:11.21\00:52:12.44
Again it is very difficult
to explain if you have the
00:52:12.47\00:52:15.02
standard model and
looking through standard glasses
00:52:15.05\00:52:17.56
of the Uniformitarian model.
00:52:17.60\00:52:18.80
They have found what they
call mummies, again I have a
00:52:18.84\00:52:21.98
problem with calling it a
mummy myself because I think
00:52:22.01\00:52:25.12
of skin, like an
Egyptian mummy or Inca mummy
00:52:25.15\00:52:27.74
or something like
that, that are still present.
00:52:27.77\00:52:30.29
These are molds and are
perfectly beautiful and they
00:52:30.32\00:52:35.12
don't quite get it either so
I can understand why they call
00:52:35.15\00:52:37.37
it a mummy and it
is well preserved.
00:52:37.40\00:52:39.70
A Edmontosaurus found in
1912 and they found another
00:52:39.74\00:52:42.62
one more recently, a
few years ago, and they are
00:52:42.66\00:52:45.51
calling it Leonardo.
00:52:45.54\00:52:46.81
But anyway Leonardo is on
display too and remarkable
00:52:46.84\00:52:51.71
preserved specimen and
harder to explain if you believe
00:52:51.74\00:52:55.99
in 65 million years as
the absolute, most recent
00:52:56.02\00:52:59.37
they could be.
00:52:59.41\00:53:00.38
So these are some issues.
00:53:00.39\00:53:02.35
So Uniformitarianism,
again everything that should
00:53:02.39\00:53:05.43
be measured at current
rates, but if you use the same
00:53:05.46\00:53:08.88
model to look at various
other issues of dating you would
00:53:08.92\00:53:12.30
come up with more recent dates.
00:53:12.34\00:53:14.17
Here are just a few of
them that I threw up there and I
00:53:14.20\00:53:16.70
wish we had time
to talk about them.
00:53:16.74\00:53:18.44
But here are some of the
things that if you go with the
00:53:18.47\00:53:21.69
Uniformitarian model we
would give it a different age.
00:53:21.72\00:53:24.91
A much younger
age for most of these.
00:53:24.94\00:53:26.78
So the issue of aging is
still around, their are a lot of
00:53:26.82\00:53:30.41
conflicting things
that depends on the glasses
00:53:30.44\00:53:33.03
you are looking through.
00:53:33.06\00:53:34.22
Here is a natural gas pipe
that is only a couple years old,
00:53:34.25\00:53:37.99
fairly new and found out
they were getting gas through it
00:53:38.03\00:53:40.88
like they should have been
and opened it and found this
00:53:40.92\00:53:43.78
crystallization that had
gone in there, it must have been
00:53:43.82\00:53:48.19
heavily chemical, mineral
gas that was being caught up.
00:53:48.22\00:53:52.22
But look how quickly it filled
in a short amount of time.
00:53:52.26\00:53:57.44
We know that coal, we
know that oil, petrification or
00:53:57.48\00:54:02.63
things becoming rock,
rockification, Opal and
00:54:02.66\00:54:06.43
stalactites can be made
more quickly than probably
00:54:06.46\00:54:10.66
standardly been talked about.
00:54:10.70\00:54:12.30
Let me talk about the
stalactites for just a minute.
00:54:12.34\00:54:15.14
Have you ever been to
Yellowstone and then to Mammoth
00:54:15.18\00:54:18.27
Hot Springs, when you
come to the usual place, the
00:54:18.31\00:54:21.33
observation place there,
you see that the rock is growing
00:54:21.37\00:54:24.50
all around you.
00:54:24.53\00:54:25.69
If you go there and come
back a couple of years later
00:54:25.73\00:54:27.99
you will see this hot water
bringing these minerals over
00:54:28.03\00:54:30.26
rock and it is
growing as you watch.
00:54:30.29\00:54:32.91
There is a rapidness to it,
it depends on how much water
00:54:32.95\00:54:37.66
and heat but you can actually
make quite a difference in
00:54:37.70\00:54:41.27
the rock formation in a
fairly short amount of time.
00:54:41.30\00:54:44.84
Rapid formation
calcium carbonate rocks.
00:54:44.87\00:54:48.26
This is the stuff we are
talking about when we talk about
00:54:48.30\00:54:51.13
stalactites like this.
00:54:51.17\00:54:52.98
You've been to Carl's
caverns like this and you see a
00:54:53.01\00:54:56.50
little drop falling from the
stalactites and the usual way
00:54:56.54\00:55:00.83
we will say this cave has
taken 100,000 years to make.
00:55:00.87\00:55:04.79
Well it probably would have
if it came at that rate of one
00:55:04.82\00:55:08.71
little drop every little while.
00:55:08.74\00:55:10.56
But the question might be,
has it always been that rate?
00:55:10.59\00:55:13.20
That is the Uniformitarian
and way of looking at the rate.
00:55:13.24\00:55:15.88
What if there was a lot of
water earlier, much more rapid,
00:55:15.91\00:55:20.14
could it form, could draw
the mineral out dissolve it and
00:55:20.18\00:55:23.73
then reform it through the
stalactites, which is the way it
00:55:23.77\00:55:27.29
happened, or could
it be done rapidly?
00:55:27.33\00:55:29.58
Again it is a possibility
and it depends upon the glasses
00:55:29.62\00:55:33.17
you are looking through.
00:55:33.20\00:55:34.44
So remember when we talk
about decay, and we talked
00:55:34.48\00:55:38.18
about some of the issues
of things falling apart that
00:55:38.21\00:55:41.88
the Bible does talk
about, thinks falling apart.
00:55:41.91\00:55:45.30
So there is some
kind of decay going on.
00:56:02.18\00:56:04.86
It is a law that we
see on planet Earth.
00:56:04.89\00:56:07.50
The Bible even has a
reference to it that the whole
00:56:07.54\00:56:11.47
creation is groaning.
00:56:11.51\00:56:13.25
It is not the way it was
originally created, but it is
00:56:13.28\00:56:16.01
feeling the effects,
problems of this planet and it's
00:56:16.05\00:56:19.70
actually under a bondage
of corruption, it's groaning
00:56:19.74\00:56:23.02
into decay and looking
forward to a better world.
00:56:23.05\00:56:26.21
It's nice and on our last
talk we will talk about how
00:56:26.24\00:56:29.57
things end up, whether you
are looking at the Big Bang
00:56:29.60\00:56:33.55
theory or another theory,
but the good news is that for
00:56:33.58\00:56:37.50
some of us who
believe this, there is a place
00:56:37.53\00:56:39.73
coming that Jesus described.
00:56:39.76\00:56:42.36
A place where it says that
neither moth nor rust destroys.
00:56:42.40\00:56:46.17
So there is no more decay
either in the chemical or the
00:56:46.20\00:56:50.07
biological world in the
place that God has prepared.
00:56:50.11\00:56:53.95
So apparently He has
an intent on fixing things
00:56:53.98\00:56:57.20
that fall apart.
00:56:57.23\00:56:58.79
That is good news.
00:56:58.83\00:57:00.32
So when was the beginning?
00:57:00.35\00:57:04.53
It depends on how
you look at the data.
00:57:04.57\00:57:07.30
What glasses you look through.
00:57:07.34\00:57:09.76
Whether you are using just
observation or whether you will
00:57:09.80\00:57:12.69
add narrative also as well.
00:57:12.72\00:57:14.62
If it is an
authoritative source or not.
00:57:14.66\00:57:16.54
I would have to tell you that
if you didn't have narrative,
00:57:16.58\00:57:19.02
I think the data is
conflicting, but that is just my
00:57:19.06\00:57:22.77
feel about it and we
welcome your thoughts as well.
00:57:22.80\00:57:25.59
Thank you very much for
coming and I hope you enjoyed
00:57:25.62\00:57:28.38
the presentation.
00:57:28.41\00:57:30.09