Hello I'm Stan Hudson
speaker for In the Beginning.
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Today we look at one of
the most favorite topics that
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everybody seems to have
and that is on dragons and
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dinosaurs and we hope you enjoy.
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Thank you,
thank you Dr. Johnson.
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It is good to be here.
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We are always wondering
when you have the night off,
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you wonder if your attendance
will be up, so we were
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sneaky with that giveaway,
making sure you'd be here.
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So thank you, it is not
very difficult to get people
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to come to a talk on dinosaurs.
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Everybody loves
dinosaurs, right?
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Everybody loves dinosaurs,
we got some young fans
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here who would
Amen that all day long.
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So today we are going
to talk about dinosaurs.
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So In the Beginning, in
the beginning of course we will
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talk tonight about
Dinosaurs and Dragons.
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Well the book of Revelation,
the book of endings mentions
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a Dragon, a big Dragon.
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The word dragon there
comes from a Greek word very
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similar and it is "drakon".
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Drakon simply
means large reptile.
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So when you think about
Dragon, you are going to be able
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by the end of tonight think
about dinosaurs as a roughly
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synonymous word for Dragon.
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The Greek drakon.
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So you can see may
be some similarities.
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Now I thought about how
am I going to go through the
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topic of dinosaurs, and
I thought of this subtitle.
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A Modern History of Dinosaurs.
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I like that so much, I just
think that is a clever title.
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So I give myself a little
smiley face because I love that.
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A Modern History of Dinosaurs
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we are actually going to
go through the history of the
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discovery of dinosaur bones.
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How people began to understand
them in the setting of the
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last few hundred years.
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It was Sir Robert Plot who
was the first discoverer and
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publisher of dinosaur bone.
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He was head of the
chemistry department at Oxford
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University and came across
this bone that he described,
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this was the first time a
bone was written about and
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studied by a scientist that
we know was a dinosaur bone.
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However he did not know
quite what it was, it was found
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in England and so take a
guess as to how he identified
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this bone?
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What do you think he
might have guessed it was?
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Well, not a Dragon, no.
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That's right, very good, a
bone from an elephant brought to
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Britain by the Romans.
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That was not a bad guess,
such a big and large bone.
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It would be very similar
to this bone right here from
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roughly the same place,
the leg of a Duckbill Dinosaur.
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And that is exactly what
he saw, very similar to this
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chunk right here.
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We will talk about
this as we go along.
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And I have some as you can
see and fossils to show you.
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It was Edward Hitchcock who in:
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What he thought at the
time of these footprints,
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that were visible to townspeople
in the area, turned out
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to be a huge, a huge deposit
of dinosaur footprints, and
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this comes from the same
basic formation in Connecticut.
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You can see the three
toes of this dinosaur.
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He thought they were giant
birds, you see the earliest
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encounter with fossil
evidence led people down various
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guesses as to what they were.
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You know, elephant
bones, bird tracks, and so on.
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We began to figure that
the things we were looking at
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were something different
and part of that happened in
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1825 in Great Britain.
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A Dr. Gideon Mantell, a
physician, began to assemble
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some bones that he had found,
and others, he liked to dig in a
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Tinet Forest in England.
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He found this
tooth, a beautiful tooth.
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He asked some of his friends,
tell me what this tooth is from?
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They said well, I'm not sure,
but it looks like the tooth
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of an iguana, accept it
is 20 times the normal size.
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20 times the normal size.
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So based on that found
in 1822 and written in 1825,
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they began to identify
dinosaurs, what would become
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dinosaurs, and these are
the first artists renderings.
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Iguanodon's tooth an
iguanodons were estimated by
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the tooth size, if it is a
20x tooth that means we are
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talking about a
60 foot long iguana.
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That would be something they're
not quite ready to imagine.
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It was a difficult thing to
picture in many peoples minds.
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These are the first pictures
of what they thought dinosaurs
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might have looked like.
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Now, incidentally, Iguana
has gone through evolution,
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excuse me, of artist renderings
for a number of years it
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began to look like that
with more fossil evidence
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and more skeletons being found.
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Now today this is the most
modern view of what an Iguanodon
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looks like, or looked like.
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The same for a Megalosaurus
that has gone through a
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transformation with more
fossils being found, this is
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now what they
think it looks like.
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Great Britain was
finding, look at the years 1859.
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What is significant about that?
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What happened, Darwin's
great book Origin of Species was
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being published in 1859.
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So a lot of things are
coming together now for the
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scientific world on the
subject of origins and it points
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to a very interesting past.
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It was Sir Richard Owen,
if it weren't for Darwin,
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probably would have been the
most famous British naturalist
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of the 19th century.
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He pretty much set up the
British Museum the way it is
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with all the
wonderful natural displays.
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Guess what those
words put together mean?
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Deinos and Saurus
equals awesome lizard.
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I know you have heard terrible
lizard, but terrible has
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lost its meaning, awesome
is what we are talking about.
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It's fabulous lizard and of
course that makes Dinosauria!
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Incidentally Richard
Owen was not a evolutionist.
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I just thought I would throw
that out, to coin the term.
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At least he had
some problems with it,
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he was a Darwin antagonist.
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Dr. Joseph Leidy, now let's
move the story to the United
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States because the
British were finding fossils.
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But let's face it, if you
really want to find some good
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fossils, some good dinosaurs,
come to United States.
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We got the good ones here.
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Isn't that right?
Well a lot of them anyway.
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Dr. Joseph Leidy was
invited to take a look at some
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bones that were being
found in mud pit in Haddonfield,
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New Jersey in the 1850s.
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He took a look at the bones,
Dr. Leidy was a curator of
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the Academy of Natural
Sciences in Philadelphia.
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He was taking a look at these
bones that were being found
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in Haddonfield and recognize
them as a new animal because
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it was huge, just huge.
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They unearthed the fossil
itself and the skeleton and it
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was the first skeleton of a
dinosaur ever found anywhere
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in the world, this
was the first skeleton.
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He was
approximately 2/3 complete.
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It didn't have a skull
unfortunately, so they had to
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make one out of papier-mâché.
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Nevertheless they mounted it
and put it on public display at
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that Academy of Natural
Science in Philadelphia.
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They could not deal with
the crowds who were paying
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to come in, there
were so many people that
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wanted to see this.
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For 15 years this was
the only dinosaur on display,
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skeleton on
display, in the entire world.
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So you can imagine people
came from around the world
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just to see this thing.
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It was propped up as a
two legged Bipedal dinosaur
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and it was designed by a
rather famous British man
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who is good at
putting displays together.
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He was quite a sensational
thing as you can imagine.
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You really put
dinosaurs on the map.
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This is an early depiction
of what the duckbill dinosaur,
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this is a
second-generation picture.
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The first ones
were a little different.
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You saw that skull were
shorter because it was an iguana
00:09:09.11\00:09:12.36
shaped skull, because they
thought they were looking at
00:09:12.39\00:09:14.63
an iguana type critter.
00:09:14.66\00:09:16.52
They eventually found some
skull fragments and made this
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image and it looks
quite a bit different today.
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Now about the same time,
we are rushing through history
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now, in the 1850s Archaeopteryx
was found in Germany.
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The Archaeopteryx was a
famous fossil, of what appeared
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to be, an ancestor of birds.
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It is somewhat different because
it has claws on the wings.
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It had teeth, a beak and
a fairly substantial tail.
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Some of those things
are not totally unique to
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Archaeopteryx but it was
different enough looking thing
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that they assumed this was
once again evidence and Charles
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Darwin is right, birds
have evolved and changed over
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the years and so on.
00:10:02.31\00:10:04.13
This is a really beautiful
specimen here from the stone
00:10:04.16\00:10:08.27
limestone of Germany.
00:10:08.30\00:10:10.59
The famous place where they
find fabulous ancient fossils.
00:10:10.62\00:10:15.37
The public was interested
in such things, we will
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talk about bird dinosaur
evolution in a little bit.
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Early public display of dinosaur
skeletons started to pack
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people in and it began to
be a tremendous market for
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dinosaurs to be
displayed in museums.
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Museums were catching on
and this is America, let's face
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it, we want our institutions
to make money and looking
00:10:36.76\00:10:39.99
for ways we can do that.
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So they were suddenly
sending out treasure hunters,
00:10:41.62\00:10:44.67
dinosaur hunters all
over Montana, Wyoming, Utah,
00:10:44.70\00:10:48.97
Colorado to try and
find some of these bones.
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South Dakota and they did,
they started to find fabulous
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dinosaur skeletons.
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They began to make world
tours in the whole world was
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beginning to find out about
this display in Paris on the
00:11:02.20\00:11:05.42
right, and I believe this
is the original Hadrosaurs,
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I think this was in the
1870s and was going to Europe on
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display for people to see.
00:11:12.99\00:11:15.27
They made a tour, a world tour.
00:11:15.30\00:11:16.94
They were beginning to
imagine how these dinosaurs were
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in size in
comparison to mankind.
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That is sensational
stuff, just blowing people away.
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You are used to dinosaurs
now because you have read and
00:11:27.11\00:11:30.56
it's all well-documented,
but imagine never,
00:11:30.59\00:11:33.12
ever imagining
anything like these existed,
00:11:33.15\00:11:35.70
and then suddenly the
stories are starting to come out
00:11:35.73\00:11:40.22
and the evidence is starting
to build that at one time
00:11:40.25\00:11:42.94
there was tremendous
sized animals walking on
00:11:42.97\00:11:46.45
the face of the earth.
00:11:46.48\00:11:47.86
Incidentally what the
creationists do when they first
00:11:47.89\00:11:49.99
heard about these things?
00:11:50.02\00:11:51.55
They at first did not
know what to do with them.
00:11:51.58\00:11:55.07
In fact, maybe even at
the second didn't know what to
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do them and they started
to say things like these are
00:11:57.60\00:12:00.58
bones of the devil
created to make us doubt
00:12:00.61\00:12:03.38
the history of the Bible.
00:12:03.41\00:12:04.86
Things like this, they didn't
immediately have good answers.
00:12:04.89\00:12:07.88
Hopefully will give
you a little better answer
00:12:07.91\00:12:10.60
tonight than that.
00:12:10.63\00:12:12.05
The evidence was scant
but coming in truckloads and
00:12:13.81\00:12:18.20
was difficult to deny
that dinosaurs once lived.
00:12:18.23\00:12:21.97
Have you heard
of a brontosaurus?
00:12:22.00\00:12:24.55
You heard about the
brontosaurus in school.
00:12:24.58\00:12:27.67
You know some of the
history of the brontosaurus,
00:12:27.70\00:12:29.90
it is an interesting one.
00:12:29.93\00:12:31.35
An American natural history
Museum the Smithsonian was
00:12:31.38\00:12:34.10
the second institution to
have a dinosaur on display.
00:12:34.13\00:12:39.68
It also had its own Hadrosaurs
like Philadelphia had.
00:12:39.71\00:12:42.94
But when news came of
the bigger ones, the Jurassic
00:12:42.97\00:12:47.54
period dinosaurs, the big
four-legged, long necked big
00:12:47.57\00:12:51.45
gigantic
dinosaurs, they wanted one.
00:12:51.48\00:12:54.29
They finally found a
suitable one to put on display.
00:12:54.32\00:12:57.58
The problem is, they
call it the Brontosaurus,
00:12:57.61\00:13:00.20
like thunder lizard.
00:13:00.23\00:13:03.26
Brontosaurus was quite a
display, however the problem
00:13:03.29\00:13:08.43
was with the head.
00:13:08.46\00:13:09.73
Have you heard about this story?
00:13:09.76\00:13:11.27
The head of the Brontosaurus
was actually from another
00:13:11.30\00:13:13.77
animal and they
didn't realize that at first.
00:13:13.80\00:13:17.19
So they put it on this, they
didn't have an original head
00:13:17.22\00:13:20.01
to put with it, or somehow
misplaced it and ended up
00:13:20.04\00:13:24.00
putting on a Camarasaurus
head on Apatosaurus and somehow
00:13:24.03\00:13:31.58
coined the word Brontosaurus.
00:13:31.61\00:13:33.43
This day the Brontosaurus
is still thought by many people
00:13:33.46\00:13:35.52
to be a separate
kind of dinosaur.
00:13:35.55\00:13:37.47
It is actually a melting of two.
00:13:37.50\00:13:39.99
It is a glitch in the
history of dinosaur displays.
00:13:40.02\00:13:48.94
Here is a Camarasaurus,
I'm going to show you something
00:13:48.97\00:13:52.17
from a Camarasaurus.
00:13:52.20\00:13:53.64
that is a big
guy wouldn't you say?
00:13:53.67\00:13:55.21
He's one of the
big ones from Utah.
00:13:55.24\00:13:58.19
Most of them are found in
Utah on the Henry Mountains.
00:13:58.22\00:14:01.38
I want to show you what
I have here on the table.
00:14:01.41\00:14:04.04
You have been
wondering what it was.
00:14:04.07\00:14:06.47
But suspected that it
might be from a dinosaur.
00:14:06.50\00:14:09.14
That was a good guess.
00:14:09.17\00:14:11.15
This is actually part of
the fibula of a Camarasaurus.
00:14:11.18\00:14:15.95
When I say a Camarasaurus
I want you to understand that
00:14:15.98\00:14:19.88
this is from, they told
me this when I purchased it,
00:14:19.91\00:14:22.21
this was from a sub-adult.
00:14:22.24\00:14:25.39
Now a sub-adult
translate out to teenager.
00:14:25.42\00:14:28.57
I said I've got sub-adults too.
00:14:28.60\00:14:31.56
That is from a sub-adult
and if it were an adult you
00:14:31.59\00:14:35.60
would add another 50% on,
it would be about like this.
00:14:35.63\00:14:38.09
That gives you a little
bit idea how big of an animal.
00:14:38.12\00:14:41.07
When they started finding
bones like this you can imagine
00:14:41.10\00:14:43.77
how exciting that was, how
interesting that was to the
00:14:43.80\00:14:46.43
world to look at
things like this.
00:14:46.46\00:14:48.41
Camarasaurus fibula.
00:14:48.44\00:14:51.15
Camarasaurus, there he is
from a sub-adult being held
00:14:51.18\00:14:57.27
by a post-adult I think.
00:14:57.30\00:14:59.87
Then they found something.
00:14:59.90\00:15:01.42
In 1905 it came to the attention
of Harry Osborn, he was
00:15:01.45\00:15:08.99
a second-generation
American paleontologist.
00:15:09.02\00:15:12.74
Incidentally, paleontology
really took off in the United
00:15:12.77\00:15:15.81
States almost entirely because
we had the good dinosaurs here.
00:15:15.84\00:15:19.46
It wasn't because they had
the good brains here, we just
00:15:19.49\00:15:22.17
had better material to
look at, dig up and study.
00:15:22.20\00:15:24.75
So paleontology is probably
produce the most experts on
00:15:24.78\00:15:29.91
the subject that has been
produced in the United States.
00:15:29.94\00:15:31.95
Something they
had not seen before.
00:15:35.25\00:15:37.22
Do you know what that was?
00:15:37.25\00:15:38.83
Tyrannosaurus Rex,
which of course means
00:15:38.86\00:15:42.37
king tyrant lizard.
00:15:42.40\00:15:44.87
Now this is not a genuine
tooth because I can't afford
00:15:44.90\00:15:50.36
a genuine tooth because
everyone wants a T Rex tooth.
00:15:50.39\00:15:54.12
I'm terribly sorry you
are not getting a T Rex tooth
00:15:54.15\00:15:57.46
tonight, if I can't
have then you can have one.
00:15:57.49\00:16:00.13
But this is a museum
quality copy of a T Rex tooth.
00:16:00.16\00:16:04.17
About that much
stuck down below the gum.
00:16:04.20\00:16:06.85
You can see that is a
very serious looking guy and it
00:16:06.88\00:16:11.05
is definitely T Rex
because of the way it is fat,
00:16:11.08\00:16:14.03
T Rex teeth are fat.
00:16:14.06\00:16:15.99
Rafter teeth are fairly flat.
00:16:16.02\00:16:18.32
T Rex teeth are fat with
serrated edges on two sides,
00:16:18.35\00:16:21.48
opposite sides like that.
00:16:21.51\00:16:22.88
If anybody says I have
got a T Rex tooth that doesn't
00:16:22.91\00:16:25.80
have those two features
I just told you about, hold
00:16:25.83\00:16:28.64
onto your wallet
anyway let's keep going.
00:16:28.67\00:16:33.48
Let's take a look at T Rex.
00:16:33.51\00:16:35.71
This was a pretty good size one.
00:16:39.90\00:16:41.00
47 feet long and
181/2 feet high, so that is
00:16:41.03\00:16:44.81
100 year old picture.
00:16:44.84\00:16:46.38
It is one thing to see a
big dinosaur, it's another
00:16:46.41\00:16:52.07
one, to see a big
one with big teeth.
00:16:52.10\00:16:55.78
Do you
understand the difference?
00:16:55.81\00:16:57.86
Vegetarian versus carnivorous.
00:16:57.89\00:17:00.93
There is an impact in the image.
00:17:00.96\00:17:03.29
One thing we know is that
T Rex did eat Triceratops.
00:17:03.32\00:17:08.16
The reason we know that is
because we found some ground-up
00:17:08.19\00:17:11.71
Triceratops bits of
bone in the stomach cavity.
00:17:11.74\00:17:18.16
The rough area were
stomach cavity would be in a
00:17:18.19\00:17:20.38
skeleton of a T Rex.
00:17:20.41\00:17:22.29
It is still a big debate as
to whether it is a scavenger
00:17:22.32\00:17:26.35
or a predator.
00:17:26.38\00:17:28.10
Scientists now believe
this and wait a few months and
00:17:28.13\00:17:31.46
go back to the predator,
now they go back to scavenger.
00:17:31.50\00:17:35.09
I have seen about five or
six switches in the last few
00:17:35.12\00:17:38.82
years, so it is fair to
say it is inconclusive as to
00:17:38.86\00:17:41.98
whether it could run
very fast with those big legs.
00:17:42.02\00:17:45.11
What I used to tell
people is we know how fast the
00:17:45.14\00:17:48.79
Hadrosaurs ran, we know
they ran 25 miles an hour.
00:17:48.82\00:17:52.66
How do we know that?
00:17:52.69\00:17:53.66
Because T Rex could run 24.
00:17:53.67\00:17:55.64
that probably is this
good a way to tell it as any.
00:18:01.01\00:18:06.54
You know there has only
been about 30 T Rex skeletons
00:18:06.57\00:18:08.90
have been found
around the world.
00:18:08.93\00:18:10.53
The ones that are
unquestionably a T Rex are
00:18:10.56\00:18:13.78
the ones in North America.
00:18:13.81\00:18:15.43
There is an animal that
has been found over here,
00:18:15.46\00:18:17.47
there are a few skeletons
over here that are similar
00:18:17.50\00:18:19.44
they argue that
they are the same animal,
00:18:19.47\00:18:22.38
it is pretty similar.
00:18:22.41\00:18:24.43
But only 30 T Rex
skeletons have been found.
00:18:24.46\00:18:27.40
How much of a bone mass, or
how many bones in a skeleton
00:18:27.43\00:18:31.83
qualifies to make it a skeleton
versus some bones together?
00:18:31.86\00:18:37.03
Do you know how much? 10%,
if you have 10% of the animal
00:18:37.06\00:18:41.42
left that qualifies in
scientific jargon as a skeleton.
00:18:41.45\00:18:45.90
You have found a skeleton.
00:18:45.93\00:18:47.60
Now I say that because
many people think when they find
00:18:47.63\00:18:49.73
a skeleton they have
pretty much all of it.
00:18:49.76\00:18:51.72
Far and away most dinosaurs
skeletons that exist are
00:18:51.75\00:18:55.39
just small pieces of it.
00:18:55.42\00:18:58.13
Which explains a little
bit about what happened to them
00:18:58.16\00:19:00.57
when they got covered up.
00:19:00.60\00:19:02.45
We will talk a little
more about that later.
00:19:02.48\00:19:04.04
There is only been
one absolutely for sure,
00:19:04.07\00:19:06.29
no questions
asked, baby T Rex found.
00:19:06.32\00:19:09.26
There is another species
of Tyrannosaurus called Nano-
00:19:09.29\00:19:13.85
Tyrannosaurus and there is
a big argument as to whether
00:19:13.88\00:19:16.89
that is a young T Rex or
a different smaller, dwarf
00:19:16.92\00:19:22.20
variety of T Rex,
something like that.
00:19:22.23\00:19:25.29
There is one, and now
there is potentially two T Rex
00:19:25.32\00:19:30.23
footprints that have been found.
00:19:30.26\00:19:31.64
There is the negative and
the positive and they are both
00:19:31.67\00:19:34.16
33 inches long and 28
inches wide and 9 inches deep.
00:19:34.19\00:19:38.72
It is in an unrevealed, to
still remain secret place in New
00:19:38.75\00:19:45.26
Mexico where they found this.
00:19:45.29\00:19:47.42
To make that kind of a
footprint you had to have a
00:19:47.45\00:19:52.76
pretty big foot
and a lot of weight.
00:19:52.79\00:19:55.06
Now this T Rex is on display
in South Dakota in Hill city
00:19:55.09\00:19:58.60
and it's name is Stan.
00:19:58.63\00:20:00.54
No really it is, now
you can see the resemblance.
00:20:00.57\00:20:03.84
up until a few years ago, Stan
was the king of T Rex skeletons.
00:20:07.70\00:20:12.98
It had 40+ percent of
the original bones together.
00:20:13.01\00:20:18.27
That was
considered quite a deal.
00:20:18.30\00:20:20.17
So Stan is on display in
South Dakota in Hill city,
00:20:20.20\00:20:23.53
in a little museum there.
00:20:23.56\00:20:25.09
That was until they
found Sue, you've heard of Sue?
00:20:25.12\00:20:29.74
Sue is on display at
Chicago's Field Museum.
00:20:29.77\00:20:38.49
That is the Queen
of dinosaur skeletons.
00:20:41.75\00:20:46.91
She was found over 90% complete.
00:20:46.94\00:20:49.47
So more than twice as
many bones that has been found
00:20:49.50\00:20:52.14
in any other T Rex.
00:20:52.17\00:20:53.72
They had a big fight
over who owned it and
00:20:53.75\00:20:55.31
millions of dollars and I
think the Chicago Field museum
00:20:55.34\00:20:59.18
paid, I believe
15 million for Sue.
00:20:59.21\00:21:01.75
I'm sure it is done very well.
00:21:01.78\00:21:04.32
When we talk about T Rex's
people have heard about the
00:21:04.35\00:21:07.31
sensational discovery of
just three years ago when they
00:21:07.34\00:21:10.34
found a bone, unlike this
bone here of T Rex however.
00:21:10.37\00:21:15.35
A femur, a leg bone.
00:21:15.38\00:21:17.01
They broke it to move and
that is not unusual because,
00:21:17.04\00:21:20.54
because if you come up
and take a look at this it's
00:21:20.57\00:21:22.45
cracked a lot.
00:21:22.48\00:21:24.10
It is not unusual because
the dinosaur bones were often
00:21:24.13\00:21:26.48
covered in mud or mud sludge
and when those things dried
00:21:26.51\00:21:30.02
out and compacted it
would crack a lot of the bones.
00:21:30.05\00:21:32.74
So a lot of times the dinosaur
bones are found cracked.
00:21:32.77\00:21:35.24
So they don't think anything
of breaking them apart to
00:21:35.27\00:21:39.04
just transport them and then
glue them back together again.
00:21:39.07\00:21:41.10
So they broke open this
T Rex femur to move it and
00:21:41.13\00:21:44.82
suddenly somebody was noticing
there was soft tissue inside.
00:21:44.85\00:21:49.56
I was the first time
it had been documented,
00:21:49.59\00:21:53.48
although there
has been some other.
00:21:53.51\00:21:56.15
Don't be surprised if
you go to museum now with
00:21:56.18\00:22:00.36
dinosaurs in the back and
they are cracking them open.
00:22:00.39\00:22:02.80
I'm just kidding, but I
think there is some effort to
00:22:02.83\00:22:05.22
look for this, this
would be sensational.
00:22:05.25\00:22:07.78
Soft tissue, still flexible,
what appears to be blood
00:22:07.81\00:22:11.51
cells depends upon your
interpretation, but it appears
00:22:11.54\00:22:14.80
to be the remnant of
blood cells still left.
00:22:14.83\00:22:18.37
This is sensational stuff,
it is sensational for a lot
00:22:18.40\00:22:21.99
of reasons, it's sensational
if you are an evolutionist
00:22:22.02\00:22:24.60
because now you have a
chance to understand and study
00:22:24.63\00:22:26.65
dinosaurs even more closely.
00:22:26.68\00:22:28.92
It's sensational for a
creationist who might not
00:22:28.95\00:22:31.55
believe in the 65 million years
required for T Rex bone to be
00:22:31.58\00:22:35.95
found like this good of shape.
00:22:35.98\00:22:38.20
There is no known explanation
for preservation of that
00:22:38.23\00:22:43.71
quality, you can pretty
well sealed it in lead and I
00:22:43.74\00:22:47.22
don't think it
would be quite this good.
00:22:47.25\00:22:49.48
This throws into
question the subject of dating.
00:22:49.51\00:22:52.80
We will talk about dating
tomorrow, a big problem for
00:22:52.83\00:22:55.97
creationist is
dating, and we will talk
00:22:56.00\00:22:57.58
about that tomorrow.
00:22:57.61\00:22:58.90
I will be very honest with
you, very frank with you about
00:22:58.93\00:23:01.93
the challenges we have
on this into the aisle.
00:23:01.96\00:23:04.38
I had the privilege of
going on a dinosaur dig.
00:23:04.41\00:23:08.72
I hope that everybody
here gets a chance, some day,
00:23:08.75\00:23:12.62
to go on a dinosaur dig.
00:23:12.65\00:23:14.26
It is a lot of fun.
00:23:14.29\00:23:15.51
I joined a university group
one summer about two years ago.
00:23:15.54\00:23:19.30
In northeastern Wyoming,
the least populated county of
00:23:19.33\00:23:27.03
the least populated
state of the 48 states.
00:23:27.06\00:23:30.27
But there are a
bazillion rabbits there.
00:23:30.30\00:23:33.12
We went on this very desolate,
it's on the edge of the
00:23:33.15\00:23:37.74
Badlands in South Dakota,
near the South Dakota border.
00:23:37.77\00:23:40.68
There we had a chance to
be involved with a number of
00:23:40.71\00:23:45.88
people that were Christians.
00:23:45.91\00:23:47.69
There was prayer in
the morning and we had our
00:23:47.72\00:23:49.16
worship and so forth.
00:23:49.19\00:23:50.91
Off we went to the sites
and here I am cleaning off,
00:23:50.94\00:23:55.05
almost all the bones that
were found were Hadrosaurs
00:23:55.08\00:23:58.16
called the Edmontosaurus
which is like this,
00:23:58.19\00:24:01.63
something like this guy.
00:24:01.66\00:24:03.14
A little bit bigger however,
it would be 30 feet from
00:24:03.17\00:24:05.61
head to toe, head to tail.
00:24:05.64\00:24:08.20
A lot of the bones from
that guy were found there.
00:24:08.23\00:24:12.00
This is a rib bone of a
Hadrosaurs that I'm cleaning off
00:24:12.03\00:24:14.70
There was about
an 18 inch layer.
00:24:14.73\00:24:18.29
This is called the Lance Creek
formation which is absolute
00:24:18.32\00:24:21.05
tip top of the Cretaceous.
00:24:21.08\00:24:23.45
This is the very
last dinosaurs covered up.
00:24:23.48\00:24:25.99
Just above the area that I
am digging there are no more
00:24:26.02\00:24:30.35
dinosaur bones found anywhere,
for that matter on that
00:24:30.38\00:24:33.66
same level all over the world.
00:24:33.69\00:24:35.29
We will talk about that when
we talk about the geological
00:24:35.32\00:24:37.36
column another night to come.
00:24:37.39\00:24:39.54
So in this 18 inches or so layer
you almost can't put a shovel in
00:24:39.57\00:24:47.91
without hitting something.
00:24:47.94\00:24:49.20
It is that thick, but
they are all individual bones.
00:24:49.23\00:24:52.84
They are disarticulated,
not parts of skeletons.
00:24:52.87\00:24:55.89
They are all in the mud stone.
00:24:55.92\00:24:59.58
So they were transported
there from some other area.
00:24:59.61\00:25:03.09
Here's the thing that is
really interesting about this
00:25:03.12\00:25:06.60
site, this Lance Creek site.
00:25:06.63\00:25:08.26
I asked Dr. Chadwick, who
was in charge of this dig,
00:25:08.29\00:25:12.82
I said I am seeing this
layer over on that side of the
00:25:12.85\00:25:16.90
canyon, and it's a little
over there and over there.
00:25:16.93\00:25:20.20
I said have you
surveyed those areas too?
00:25:20.23\00:25:22.52
Yep we sure have, they
have the same density of bones.
00:25:22.55\00:25:26.04
Have you estimated what
we are talking about here?
00:25:26.07\00:25:29.12
Yes, in just this area
somewhere between 20 and 30,000
00:25:29.15\00:25:34.07
Hadrosaurs are represented.
00:25:34.10\00:25:36.42
Between 20 and 30,000
Hadrosaurs because the density
00:25:36.45\00:25:40.56
is consistent
wherever they have surveyed.
00:25:40.59\00:25:42.69
I want to show you
what they do at this site.
00:25:42.72\00:25:46.54
Here are some of the bones
for the days dig we dug up.
00:25:46.57\00:25:50.37
They are large bones
because it was a large animal.
00:25:50.40\00:25:52.54
What they do is take a
GPS, global positioning system,
00:25:52.57\00:25:58.23
put it on the corner of
the bones they find before they
00:25:58.26\00:26:01.02
are removed from the area.
00:26:01.05\00:26:02.45
They take a photograph of
the bone uncovered and drop
00:26:02.48\00:26:08.03
it into a computer.
00:26:08.06\00:26:11.51
This gives you an idea
if you remove all the dirt,
00:26:11.54\00:26:13.25
this is to scale what this
area looks like in terms of
00:26:13.28\00:26:17.15
dinosaur bones.
00:26:17.18\00:26:18.50
Look at how many there
are there, they are all just
00:26:18.53\00:26:19.89
disarticulated, they all
washed in from some other area.
00:26:19.92\00:26:22.45
They somehow got
transported in, quite something.
00:26:22.48\00:26:26.03
This is an Edmontosaurus
here, it gives you some idea
00:26:26.06\00:26:28.75
of the size, especially if
it is standing up on its rear
00:26:28.78\00:26:33.11
20 to 30,000 of
these in this area.
00:26:33.14\00:26:37.35
When I was digging there
I had a chance to dig up a
00:26:37.38\00:26:43.13
a vertebrae, and they are
really mean people I was working
00:26:43.16\00:26:48.20
with because they
wouldn't let me take it home.
00:26:48.23\00:26:50.00
So I was able eventually
to locate one somewhere else.
00:26:50.03\00:26:55.31
This is a
vertebrae of a Edmontosaurus.
00:26:55.34\00:27:00.12
You can see the channel
here on the backbone of the
00:27:00.15\00:27:06.01
vertebrate, if you
can imagine another one of
00:27:06.04\00:27:08.46
these right here in the spike of
the tail would go right there.
00:27:08.49\00:27:12.03
This is a Caddo-vertebrae,
in other words on the tail.
00:27:12.06\00:27:15.27
right there where the
little bump is on that guy.
00:27:15.30\00:27:19.45
It is a little bit
deformed but not too bad.
00:27:19.48\00:27:22.76
I finally got one like I dug up.
00:27:24.63\00:27:27.84
Footprints are
also fossil evidence.
00:27:27.87\00:27:31.23
Any trace of living
things is considered a fossil.
00:27:31.26\00:27:36.35
It doesn't have to be a
bone, just an animal had
00:27:36.38\00:27:39.43
been there evidence.
00:27:39.46\00:27:41.34
So fossils include
footprints, and you can see a
00:27:41.37\00:27:44.27
three toed one there.
00:27:44.30\00:27:45.65
This is the place in the Paluxy
River Valley, near Keen Texas.
00:27:45.68\00:27:50.73
Again if you are ever
around Fort Worth, and I know
00:27:50.76\00:27:53.76
you are probably
planning a trip as we speak.
00:27:53.79\00:27:55.81
If you go to Fort Worth,
Southwest of Fort Worth there
00:27:55.84\00:28:00.34
is a state park
there like no other.
00:28:00.37\00:28:02.87
Because you can go down
into this Creek bed and frolic
00:28:02.90\00:28:08.20
in the water with the
kids and everyone else.
00:28:08.23\00:28:10.30
You are standing among
dinosaur footprints, as clear
00:28:10.33\00:28:13.42
as anything, all around you.
00:28:13.45\00:28:15.22
There are not
many state parks that
00:28:15.25\00:28:16.73
I can think of like that.
00:28:16.76\00:28:18.23
So three toed dinosaurs
are all over the place.
00:28:18.26\00:28:22.15
It is this place where some
creationists have made claims
00:28:22.18\00:28:26.24
that there are human footprints
alongside of dinosaurs
00:28:26.27\00:28:29.83
footprints, you may have
heard those claims before.
00:28:29.86\00:28:31.87
This is a sensational claim.
00:28:31.90\00:28:33.80
You will see before the
evening is over that I actually
00:28:33.83\00:28:37.00
believe there is good evidence
that dinosaurs and humans
00:28:37.03\00:28:40.17
coexisting, but I did
not consider this that good.
00:28:40.20\00:28:43.82
You have to study the
footprints very carefully.
00:28:43.85\00:28:48.54
What this is thought of is
that this is human footprints,
00:28:48.57\00:28:51.21
whereas this is clearly
three toed dinosaurs going off
00:28:51.24\00:28:54.71
there, so looks like the
same strata and of course that
00:28:54.74\00:28:57.77
would be good evidence for
humans and dinosaurs together.
00:28:57.80\00:29:00.10
The problem is, as you
study these narrow prints, they
00:29:00.13\00:29:03.33
appear to be deformed
perhaps by water or something.
00:29:03.36\00:29:06.57
They just made a sensational
find in Utah of hundreds and
00:29:06.60\00:29:12.91
hundreds of dinosaur footprints
in a not very hiked to
00:29:12.94\00:29:19.50
area in a park there.
00:29:19.53\00:29:21.17
Now they are talking about
documenting and I wanted to
00:29:21.20\00:29:24.66
show you a good place where
you see three toed dinosaur,
00:29:24.69\00:29:28.10
that's clearly three toed.
00:29:28.13\00:29:29.53
Well what is this and this,
so you can see when water was
00:29:29.56\00:29:33.75
washing in there all these
footprints were being made.
00:29:33.78\00:29:36.18
You will see later that there
is talk and I believe these
00:29:36.21\00:29:41.53
were all made in
water conditions.
00:29:41.56\00:29:43.44
You will see that water
had a tendency to wash them out
00:29:43.47\00:29:47.26
misshapen them a little bit.
00:29:47.29\00:29:49.11
That is probably
what has been done here.
00:29:49.14\00:29:53.02
One of the things that
is very interesting about
00:29:53.05\00:29:54.68
Edmontosaurus is they
have been finding them recently
00:29:54.71\00:29:57.30
a few of them with, with
all the things I show my science
00:29:57.33\00:30:01.74
friends this is one
thing they will gasp at.
00:30:01.77\00:30:04.28
So this is pretty cool, you
don't find these very often.
00:30:04.31\00:30:08.12
This is actually a skin
impression from an Edmontosaurus
00:30:08.15\00:30:11.59
This is a skin impression.
00:30:11.62\00:30:13.41
Now what happens for dinosaur
to leave a skin impression?
00:30:13.44\00:30:16.26
It means that when they
died, the material or mud,
00:30:16.29\00:30:19.75
the material that covered
around it and it's so made a
00:30:19.78\00:30:24.04
good impression that when
the dinosaur skin deteriorated
00:30:24.07\00:30:29.00
it left this mold and you
can actually see the shape of
00:30:29.03\00:30:32.46
the scales of
the dinosaur in here.
00:30:32.49\00:30:35.43
If you ever had a
question as to whether they were
00:30:35.46\00:30:37.95
reptiles, that solves
it a little bit for you.
00:30:37.98\00:30:41.97
It has clearly reptile skin.
00:30:42.00\00:30:43.95
They don't find these very
often and you may have heard
00:30:43.98\00:30:47.17
they recently found mummified,
they call it mummified.
00:30:47.20\00:30:50.72
I am not sure if I
would use the term.
00:30:50.75\00:30:52.10
I do Bible studies and think
of Egyptians and those kinds
00:30:52.13\00:30:57.29
of things are mummies to me and
the skin will still be there.
00:30:57.32\00:31:00.07
What they call mummified
is if the skin is preserved so
00:31:00.10\00:31:04.62
very well it is like
that or many times better.
00:31:04.65\00:31:08.58
The cast is so good and
the original skin is actually
00:31:08.61\00:31:13.47
gone I think,
as I understand it.
00:31:13.50\00:31:15.69
They say it is iron hard.
00:31:15.72\00:31:17.67
They get to see organs and
everything of the dinosaur.
00:31:17.70\00:31:20.85
It is really
sensational some of the finds.
00:31:20.88\00:31:23.41
They found about six or
seven, what they would term as
00:31:23.44\00:31:27.12
mummified dinosaurs, so far,
they are that well preserved.
00:31:27.15\00:31:32.10
When we talk about eggs,
everybody is curious about
00:31:32.13\00:31:36.94
dinosaur eggs.
00:31:36.97\00:31:38.57
This is a genuine dinosaur
egg from China legally exported.
00:31:38.60\00:31:43.48
People always ask
about dinosaur eggs.
00:31:43.51\00:31:48.69
Is there one in there?
00:31:48.72\00:31:51.20
What is very interesting
about dinosaur eggs is that 99
00:31:51.23\00:31:55.73
point and then some percent
of dinosaur eggs do not have
00:31:55.76\00:32:00.17
embryo preserved in there.
00:32:00.20\00:32:03.29
There is just a
handful that have been found.
00:32:03.32\00:32:05.58
When they find one with
bones in it they are quite
00:32:05.61\00:32:08.27
excited, but for whatever
reason they weren't preserved,
00:32:08.30\00:32:11.35
or weren't
fertilized or something.
00:32:11.38\00:32:13.10
Dinosaur eggs are
quite interesting.
00:32:13.13\00:32:16.20
You know when you look
at dinosaur egg, again I am
00:32:16.23\00:32:18.06
sharing with you what I
could think of as a kid.
00:32:18.09\00:32:21.20
In my minds eye I thought
about dinosaur egg is probably
00:32:21.23\00:32:24.24
be in roughly the size
of a Volkswagen beetle.
00:32:24.27\00:32:27.04
That was my image of
what they must surely be.
00:32:27.07\00:32:30.80
But the fact of the matter is
there aren't too many dinosaur
00:32:30.83\00:32:33.98
bones are much bigger than this.
00:32:34.01\00:32:36.11
The predator ones are a
little longer and narrow.
00:32:36.14\00:32:38.33
They are not always sure
which dinosaur to tie these to
00:32:38.36\00:32:45.39
because it is rarely a
dinosaur laying next to with the
00:32:45.42\00:32:48.64
egg, but they are pretty
sure this is a Hadrosaurs.
00:32:48.67\00:32:53.56
Not unlike the
pictures there from China.
00:32:53.59\00:32:57.06
They found quite a
few of these in China.
00:32:57.09\00:32:58.62
But they are all
small, pretty small.
00:32:58.65\00:33:00.99
Not much bigger than
that which means all dinosaurs
00:33:01.02\00:33:03.45
started off fairly small.
00:33:03.48\00:33:06.36
If you ever get a chance
to go up to Drumheller, which
00:33:08.14\00:33:10.60
is not that terribly far
from here, you must go to this
00:33:10.63\00:33:13.29
museum, it is a
world-class dinosaur museum.
00:33:13.32\00:33:16.12
One of the things I really
like about it is when you went
00:33:16.15\00:33:20.79
in the Tyrone museum on
the left-hand side as your just
00:33:20.82\00:33:23.90
going in, there was a plaque
with an inscription that said,
00:33:23.93\00:33:28.44
"speak to the earth
and you it will tell you. "
00:33:28.47\00:33:31.26
It was a quotation from Job
and I thought that was cool.
00:33:31.29\00:33:36.16
They are open-minded, of course
millions of years all over
00:33:36.19\00:33:38.97
the place, but
beautiful dinosaurs skeletons.
00:33:39.00\00:33:41.80
Fabulous display, a
real world-class museum.
00:33:41.83\00:33:44.54
I can't think of any
better any better than this.
00:33:44.57\00:33:47.38
Unfortunately they took
that down, I don't know if they
00:33:47.41\00:33:50.68
had pressure later because
the last time I went they didn't
00:33:50.71\00:33:53.60
have the Job
inscription up anymore.
00:33:53.63\00:33:55.41
Does the Bible tell us
anything about dinosaurs?
00:33:58.14\00:34:00.69
First of all you will not
find the word dinosaur in the
00:34:00.72\00:34:03.52
Bible, not if it was coined
in 1842 it will not be in the
00:34:03.55\00:34:08.62
Bible, but it are ready
hinted that a dragon isn't a
00:34:08.65\00:34:11.44
terribly different
word than dinosaur.
00:34:11.47\00:34:13.64
Let's take a look to see
if the Bible tells us anything
00:34:13.67\00:34:15.82
about dinosaurs.
00:34:15.85\00:34:17.20
If you look at the Genesis
creation account is that God
00:34:17.23\00:34:20.17
created, on the fifth day,
create a great sea creatures.
00:34:20.20\00:34:24.01
The word for creatures
there is tanninim a Hebrew word.
00:34:24.04\00:34:26.76
Tanninim is generally
translated in the Old Testament
00:34:26.79\00:34:31.49
as a reptile, that
is the usual definition.
00:34:31.52\00:34:34.80
That is the usual translation.
00:34:34.83\00:34:36.41
So you might say
great sea reptiles.
00:34:36.44\00:34:39.77
Of course every time God
made something, in the creation
00:34:39.80\00:34:41.80
account, He pronounces it good.
00:34:41.83\00:34:43.96
When you start to suggest
to some Christians that maybe
00:34:43.99\00:34:48.38
God created dinosaurs, there
is a little hesitation there.
00:34:48.41\00:34:51.08
Hey wait a minute why
would God do? He wouldn't have?
00:34:51.11\00:34:53.50
I don't think so, but we
want to take a look at the
00:34:53.53\00:34:58.72
biblical record and see.
00:34:58.75\00:35:00.45
It says that God created
great sea reptiles, tanninim.
00:35:00.48\00:35:05.78
How interesting, but when
people asked the question,
00:35:05.81\00:35:09.82
is there anything in the
Bible about dinosaurs they
00:35:09.85\00:35:11.63
always talk about Job.
00:35:11.66\00:35:13.12
There's two animals
mentioned in the book of Job.
00:35:13.15\00:35:14.71
One is a leviathan.
00:35:14.74\00:35:16.20
It says.
00:35:16.23\00:35:18.43
Now when you take a look, I
was very curious at the Word
00:35:42.83\00:35:46.27
leviathan, I wanted to know
if there was any hint in Hebrew
00:35:46.30\00:35:49.34
as to what the
animal might have been.
00:35:49.37\00:35:51.46
In my studies on at the
only place I found a root word,
00:35:51.49\00:35:56.13
a hint of a root word in there,
is a word that means boil.
00:35:56.16\00:36:00.42
To stir or boil something.
00:36:00.45\00:36:03.26
I'm thinking, to me, that's
probably for my sake and is
00:36:03.29\00:36:08.03
open for interpretations.
00:36:08.06\00:36:10.77
At least for me I think
that it is establishing that it
00:36:10.80\00:36:13.85
is a crocodile, a crocodile
would boil the water's as it
00:36:13.88\00:36:17.16
turns and thrashes about.
00:36:17.19\00:36:19.32
That's apparent in the
root word, but that's just me.
00:36:19.35\00:36:22.45
However, let's go and
take a look at the behemoth.
00:36:22.48\00:36:25.77
The word
behemoth is simply beast.
00:36:31.54\00:36:33.52
Now what in the world is this?
00:36:47.70\00:36:50.00
God is speaking to Job and
saying Job listen, I am the
00:36:50.03\00:36:52.14
Creator and have
things under control.
00:36:52.17\00:36:54.46
Let Me tell you about
some of the animals I made.
00:36:54.49\00:36:56.33
You know some of them, but
this is a pretty impressive
00:36:56.36\00:36:59.04
one, Behemoth.
00:36:59.07\00:37:01.84
Now about this animal, it
is generally thought, the most
00:37:01.87\00:37:06.85
common
interpretation is hippopotamus.
00:37:06.88\00:37:09.48
It says the now his strength
is in his hip and his powers
00:37:09.51\00:37:12.20
in his stomach muscles.
00:37:12.23\00:37:13.73
Okay, he has a powerful
body, and moves his tail like a
00:37:13.76\00:37:16.58
cedar, have you ever
seen a hippopotamus tail?
00:37:16.61\00:37:19.27
Is that little
thing in the back there.
00:37:19.30\00:37:23.79
It doesn't quite have the
impact of a cedar tree being
00:37:23.82\00:37:26.75
swayed back and forth.
00:37:26.78\00:37:28.67
His bones are like beams of
bronze and his ribs are like
00:37:28.70\00:37:30.92
bars of iron, he is the
first in the ways of God.
00:37:30.95\00:37:33.69
That last phrase to me is
an interesting phrase and I
00:37:33.72\00:37:36.43
tried to unpack
that one as well.
00:37:36.46\00:37:38.13
It was like first, first
things made, what does the
00:37:38.16\00:37:42.08
word first there suggest?
00:37:42.11\00:37:44.92
Again as studied the
sources on this and the scholars
00:37:44.95\00:37:48.75
that have looked at this
verse, you could translate this
00:37:48.78\00:37:51.66
to a modern language
which is something like this.
00:37:51.69\00:37:54.41
He is the king of beasts,
he is the most prominent.
00:37:54.44\00:37:57.74
He stands first
among all the animals.
00:37:57.77\00:38:00.40
King, prominent, first.
00:38:00.43\00:38:03.22
Well if that is the
case, it doesn't sound like a
00:38:03.25\00:38:06.97
hippopotamus to
me, but dinosaur maybe.
00:38:07.00\00:38:10.36
A big huge
four-legged, okay possibly.
00:38:10.39\00:38:13.93
This is the one place
that I am open to the idea
00:38:13.96\00:38:17.71
of a description of
some fabulous animal we are
00:38:17.74\00:38:21.29
finding the bones of,
first of the ways of God.
00:38:21.32\00:38:23.96
Let's talk about the
story, is there any evidence of
00:38:23.99\00:38:31.17
evolution in the animal
world found in the Bible?
00:38:31.20\00:38:36.04
You might be surprised to
hear that I actually believe
00:38:36.07\00:38:38.79
there was some
evolution but not in the way
00:38:38.82\00:38:40.59
we are used to hearing it.
00:38:40.62\00:38:42.48
In this story in involving
a serpent, Eve, and the
00:38:42.51\00:38:46.33
tree of knowledge of
good and evil and so forth.
00:38:46.36\00:38:49.54
We don't think it was a
serpent as such, but something
00:38:49.57\00:38:53.59
much more attractive to Eve
before any scary animal like
00:38:53.62\00:38:57.66
we think a snake as being today.
00:38:57.69\00:38:59.48
I think of something
between a parrot and a panda,
00:38:59.51\00:39:02.35
I don't know what it would be.
00:39:02.38\00:39:03.59
Something in the tree that
is attractive and cuddly that
00:39:03.62\00:39:08.55
would draw a
woman over to see it.
00:39:08.58\00:39:10.17
Whatever it originally was it
was not a scary looking snake.
00:39:10.20\00:39:14.04
We know by what God
said that the snake changed.
00:39:14.07\00:39:16.56
So there are two things
there I want you to see.
00:39:23.22\00:39:25.77
Number one, you are
cursed more than other animals,
00:39:25.80\00:39:29.09
suggesting that the animal
world is now affected by what
00:39:29.12\00:39:32.35
has taken place here.
00:39:32.38\00:39:33.38
If all cattle are affected,
but especially the serpent,
00:39:35.93\00:39:39.89
what does that mean?
00:39:39.92\00:39:41.99
Please notice He goes on
to say now you're going to eat
00:39:42.02\00:39:45.86
dust, as if it
didn't eat dust before.
00:39:45.89\00:39:49.27
So some kind of transformation,
some kind of demotion,
00:39:49.30\00:39:52.13
some kind of, can I
say it? De-evolution.
00:39:52.16\00:39:55.47
Downward, debasing took
place that the serpent was
00:39:55.50\00:40:01.12
changed in form.
00:40:01.15\00:40:02.48
It is
interesting to me that we are
00:40:02.51\00:40:03.55
talking about a reptile.
00:40:03.58\00:40:04.85
That a reptile has changed
from something better that
00:40:04.88\00:40:07.98
it was, to
something now inferior.
00:40:08.01\00:40:10.56
It suggests that all
animals are affected as well.
00:40:10.59\00:40:14.38
To me that is open that
door for some kind of change in
00:40:14.41\00:40:17.91
the reptile family, at least.
00:40:17.94\00:40:20.97
Let's take a look at Genesis
6 and get an idea of how,
00:40:23.77\00:40:27.25
maybe dinosaurs, if God
made good ones, how they may
00:40:27.28\00:40:31.05
have been affected.
00:40:31.08\00:40:32.49
Now on two nights from now
I'm going to talk about the
00:40:53.18\00:40:56.17
flood, the
evidence for the flood.
00:40:56.20\00:40:57.90
Remember was a geology
student and to me that was very
00:40:57.93\00:41:00.24
interesting stuff.
00:41:00.27\00:41:01.90
Please notice this, it is
saying that God could have
00:41:01.93\00:41:06.80
if God was going to destroy
the planet and start it over
00:41:06.83\00:41:11.69
again, and it was just
people He was worried about,
00:41:11.72\00:41:14.80
He could have figured some
way to do it with just people
00:41:14.83\00:41:17.36
and not affect the animal world.
00:41:17.39\00:41:20.20
It is clear by the description
of Scripture that the
00:41:20.23\00:41:24.25
condition included
animals were a problem too.
00:41:24.28\00:41:27.26
Something had gone
haywire in the animal world.
00:41:27.29\00:41:29.41
It says all flesh, that
were clearly means more than
00:41:29.44\00:41:33.30
people, all flesh had
gone bad, gotten corrupted.
00:41:33.33\00:41:37.02
The world's particular condition
was what God was worried about.
00:41:37.05\00:41:40.04
It was a violent
world, it was turning violent.
00:41:40.07\00:41:43.27
So was not just human
violence, violence in the human
00:41:43.30\00:41:50.32
world but also the
animal world apparently.
00:41:50.35\00:41:52.46
Because God decided to destroy
the animal world, and start
00:41:52.49\00:41:55.56
over with animals from the ark.
00:41:55.59\00:41:58.15
We will talk about that
again in a night or two.
00:41:58.18\00:42:00.84
Do we see violence
in the fossil record?
00:42:00.87\00:42:03.40
Of course we do, we
see a very violent world.
00:42:03.43\00:42:05.51
Besides T Rex, which
is frightening enough.
00:42:05.54\00:42:08.04
What about other critters,
do we see other animals?
00:42:08.07\00:42:10.65
Take a look at this guy,
this guy clearly is designed
00:42:10.68\00:42:16.98
for a paddle or something.
00:42:17.01\00:42:19.07
He clearly has got some
kind of defense mechanism
00:42:19.10\00:42:22.66
working for him there.
00:42:22.69\00:42:24.12
They have only found one
skeleton of this and bits and
00:42:24.15\00:42:26.46
pieces of others.
00:42:26.49\00:42:27.98
It is enough to reveal this
interesting looking critter.
00:42:28.01\00:42:31.60
It looks like the animal
lived in a violent world.
00:42:31.63\00:42:36.03
The Stegosaurus has got
the defenses of bony structures
00:42:36.06\00:42:39.12
and a spike on his tail.
00:42:39.15\00:42:41.18
You would say that whatever
world these animals lived in
00:42:41.21\00:42:43.13
was a violent world.
00:42:43.17\00:42:44.83
Of course we see something
that has been comically referred
00:42:44.86\00:42:48.59
to a Pachycephalosaurus, a
nice way of saying bonehead.
00:42:48.62\00:42:52.80
Or thick head we believe
he ran around knocking things
00:42:52.83\00:42:58.63
with his very thick skull.
00:42:58.66\00:43:00.50
Again with all the horns
it looks like a violent world
00:43:00.53\00:43:03.22
besides just T Rex.
00:43:03.25\00:43:05.13
Violence
apparently filled the earth.
00:43:05.16\00:43:08.93
It was a dinosaury,
dinosaur world I guess.
00:43:08.96\00:43:13.32
You can see the bite marks
on the trilobites, there are
00:43:13.35\00:43:16.78
a lot of interesting
evidence of violent world.
00:43:16.81\00:43:19.22
I know people are asking
about, there is a question
00:43:21.54\00:43:25.07
I had a couple nights ago
about this as to whether God.
00:43:25.10\00:43:28.22
This was somebody
talking to me afterwards.
00:43:28.25\00:43:30.73
Long sharp teeth, surely
these were always carnivorous.
00:43:30.76\00:43:35.50
Did God design
carnivorous teeth?
00:43:35.53\00:43:38.02
Was God making animals that kill
animals in the Garden of Eden?
00:43:38.05\00:43:42.97
Was that original or
did something else happened?
00:43:43.00\00:43:45.44
Take a look at
these two bear skulls.
00:43:45.47\00:43:46.89
If you look at the canines
on these guys, this is always
00:43:46.92\00:43:52.68
an indicator to scientist
that these are meat eaters.
00:43:52.71\00:43:55.99
Yet on the left is a panda bear
and on the right is grizzly bear
00:43:56.02\00:44:00.38
A panda bear uses
canines to do what?
00:44:00.41\00:44:03.39
What do they eat?
00:44:03.42\00:44:04.70
They eat bamboo and only
bamboo, that is the only thing
00:44:04.73\00:44:07.28
they eat, never less scientists
will look at this and say those
00:44:07.31\00:44:11.55
are clearly meat eaters,
there is no other option here.
00:44:11.58\00:44:14.31
So a panda bear used to be
a carnivorous animal before
00:44:14.34\00:44:17.96
it evolved to a
bamboo eating animal.
00:44:17.99\00:44:20.20
That is the statement on this.
00:44:20.23\00:44:22.53
Can you see a panda
bear running something down?
00:44:22.56\00:44:25.13
the fact of the matter is
you can have sharp teeth and
00:44:32.17\00:44:34.97
do very well on
a vegetarian diet.
00:44:35.00\00:44:37.04
When you look at a grizzly
bear, you know grizzly bears
00:44:37.07\00:44:39.07
and their habitats and so forth.
00:44:39.10\00:44:40.80
A grizzly bear is
capable of being vegetarian.
00:44:40.83\00:44:44.29
It is true that certain
times of the year when food is
00:44:44.32\00:44:47.33
tougher and berries are
harder to find, the fish are
00:44:47.36\00:44:51.93
plentiful and an
easy source of food.
00:44:51.96\00:44:53.95
But grizzly bears are capable of
being vegetarian, even in nature
00:44:53.98\00:44:58.13
It is possible to have
very sharp teeth and not,
00:44:58.16\00:45:01.59
necessarily, have
to be carnivorous.
00:45:01.62\00:45:04.31
At least that is
the evidence from some.
00:45:04.34\00:45:06.23
People wonder about
the size of dinosaurs.
00:45:06.26\00:45:08.74
Let me give you a little
bit of a sense of how big we
00:45:11.51\00:45:16.09
are talking
there, that's pretty big.
00:45:16.12\00:45:18.69
On the Supersaurus they've
only found a couple bones
00:45:18.72\00:45:21.88
from and I personally am
thinking a lot of these guys
00:45:21.91\00:45:25.39
are more or
less the same animal.
00:45:25.42\00:45:27.22
Now what people don't know is
the typical size of a dinosaur,
00:45:30.52\00:45:33.39
dinosaur, a typical size of
a dinosaur is actually much,
00:45:33.42\00:45:35.95
much smaller.
00:45:35.98\00:45:37.14
The average size
is like dog size.
00:45:37.17\00:45:38.96
When you talk to dinosaur
fans they always think they
00:45:38.99\00:45:43.83
are big, incidentally,
here is a good trivia question.
00:45:43.86\00:45:46.49
I don't think it's in
your workbook, but nevertheless
00:45:46.52\00:45:49.53
it is a good question.
00:45:49.56\00:45:51.16
What is the anatomical
difference between a dinosaur
00:45:51.19\00:45:55.04
and a reptile?
00:45:55.07\00:45:56.48
It is very simple.
00:45:56.51\00:45:57.75
Anatomical difference between
a dinosaur and a reptile?
00:45:57.78\00:46:00.76
Somebody said hips,
very good, that's it, hips.
00:46:03.71\00:46:06.72
Not size, I always have
people shout out size first.
00:46:06.75\00:46:09.28
How disappointing, you
guys are too on this stuff.
00:46:09.31\00:46:12.46
It's the hips, it's basically
reptile hips have the legs
00:46:12.49\00:46:16.36
go out side ways and they have a
tendency to do this to get along
00:46:16.39\00:46:19.67
Where as dinosaur legs are
angled downward whether two
00:46:19.70\00:46:23.12
or four-legged, they tend
to go straight down and are
00:46:23.15\00:46:25.48
off the ground.
00:46:25.51\00:46:26.60
That is pretty much the
difference between a dinosaur
00:46:26.63\00:46:28.54
and a reptile, size aside.
00:46:28.57\00:46:32.25
They were finding from the
beginning, in the middle 1800s,
00:46:38.36\00:46:42.83
they began to
find flying dinosaurs.
00:46:42.86\00:46:46.33
Pterodactyloids and so forth.
00:46:46.36\00:46:48.46
This was a sensational
find as well and these were
00:46:48.49\00:46:51.95
different enough from birds
that they had to wonder what
00:46:51.98\00:46:55.37
exactly they were,
they were flying reptiles.
00:46:55.40\00:46:57.99
They had the skin folds
and so forth, we found evidence
00:46:58.02\00:47:00.43
of the folds as well,
along with the bones and skin.
00:47:00.46\00:47:04.77
When we talk about
dinosaur to bird evolution,
00:47:04.80\00:47:09.76
this is a very hot, hot topic.
00:47:09.79\00:47:12.81
In-house, among the
evolutionists discussing this.
00:47:12.84\00:47:18.27
This gets sometimes heated.
00:47:18.30\00:47:21.12
Two theories of dinosaurs
assuming you believe dinosaurs
00:47:21.15\00:47:23.79
evolved into birds.
00:47:23.82\00:47:25.34
The two theories
are something like this.
00:47:25.37\00:47:27.18
They start his
large brown bipeds.
00:47:27.21\00:47:30.35
Roughly looking like
ostriches, something like that.
00:47:33.81\00:47:36.27
Eventually getting
longer wings and so forth.
00:47:36.30\00:47:38.80
Starting from the ground and
learning how to fly basically.
00:47:38.83\00:47:41.96
The problem with that is,
when you look at large brown
00:47:41.99\00:47:44.60
bipeds, they have large legs,
small forearms and heavy tails.
00:47:44.63\00:47:48.43
They should have small
legs, big forearms that would
00:47:48.46\00:47:53.41
become wings, and small
tails that would not be so heavy
00:47:53.44\00:47:58.94
to drag to keep you from flying.
00:47:58.97\00:48:01.26
There's a problem with
that and some people argue that
00:48:01.29\00:48:03.56
is good enough evidence
to go with another theory.
00:48:03.59\00:48:05.87
The other theory is small
crocodiles from the trees.
00:48:05.90\00:48:08.46
They use the word crocodile
more, so they think it is
00:48:08.49\00:48:12.62
something that looked more like
a crocodile perched in trees.
00:48:12.65\00:48:14.28
From that it would somehow
have folds in the wings, like
00:48:14.31\00:48:20.85
the Pterodactyloids
had, skin folds become wings.
00:48:20.88\00:48:26.32
Again that is a
little bit of a stretch.
00:48:26.35\00:48:29.68
Also lung problems,
dinosaur lungs to bird lungs.
00:48:29.71\00:48:34.80
They are finding some
reptiles now they feel have some
00:48:34.83\00:48:38.38
Bird like lungs, but feathers.
00:48:38.41\00:48:41.57
Take a look at this.
00:48:41.60\00:48:42.57
I appreciate Dr. David
Mentons talks on the subject.
00:48:42.58\00:48:46.15
I find them very interesting.
00:48:46.18\00:48:47.88
But he jokes around with this.
00:48:47.91\00:48:50.77
The top picture is a microscope
picture of scales on the reptile
00:48:50.80\00:48:55.42
and below it are electron
microscope look at a feather.
00:48:55.45\00:49:01.30
The top was supposed to
have evolved into the bottom.
00:49:01.33\00:49:04.81
The top of course is
just simply folds of skin.
00:49:04.84\00:49:08.45
The bottom is like a hair
follicle that comes out of
00:49:08.48\00:49:12.17
the skin, beneath
the surface of the skin.
00:49:12.20\00:49:14.46
It is hard to imagine
what the midway steps would be
00:49:14.49\00:49:21.34
between folded
scales and feathers.
00:49:21.37\00:49:24.83
That issue is one of the
challenges of trying to imagine,
00:49:24.86\00:49:28.76
this is incidentally
where the money is, or a least a
00:49:28.79\00:49:31.39
good chunk of the
money for research.
00:49:31.42\00:49:33.43
It's a hot topic
for evolutionists from
00:49:33.46\00:49:36.70
dinosaurs to birds.
00:49:36.73\00:49:38.33
Okay let's take a look
at the question about birds.
00:49:38.36\00:49:41.51
Evolution from dinosaurs, a
little bit challenging because
00:49:41.54\00:49:44.64
feathered birds are found all
the way back to mid Jurassic.
00:49:44.68\00:49:47.95
Then you have dinosaurs
and of course you have flying
00:49:49.76\00:49:53.87
dinosaurs and then you
have the land dinosaurs.
00:49:53.91\00:49:58.65
Land dinosaur
started mid Triassic level.
00:49:58.69\00:50:01.74
Flying dinosaurs not too much
after that, but you see that
00:50:01.77\00:50:05.45
the feathered birds tend to
go back further than would be a
00:50:05.48\00:50:09.13
comfortable fit, or easy
evolution, you would like
00:50:09.16\00:50:12.20
to think that they weren't
all going together but that one
00:50:12.23\00:50:17.12
would be a little
more, or a little higher up.
00:50:17.16\00:50:19.62
It would fit better in the
imagination of how dinosaurs
00:50:19.66\00:50:23.59
evolved into feathered birds
if there was a little more,
00:50:23.63\00:50:27.53
like you say the
birds are too far down.
00:50:27.57\00:50:30.75
They keep finding birds,
especially in China right now.
00:50:30.78\00:50:34.26
When they find birds they
can to find birds that look just
00:50:34.30\00:50:37.39
like birds, for the most
part there is a couple of really
00:50:37.42\00:50:40.66
interesting oddball ones,
but most birds they are finding
00:50:40.70\00:50:43.90
look like birds.
00:50:43.94\00:50:45.25
Everything is very
similar to modern birds.
00:50:45.29\00:50:49.29
It is a little bit of a
challenge, it is probably one of
00:50:49.32\00:50:51.91
the better
theories that they have.
00:50:51.95\00:50:53.59
What happened to dinosaurs,
well the theory is right now
00:50:53.62\00:50:57.46
probably a meteor strike
is the best answer for what
00:50:57.49\00:51:01.26
happened to dinosaurs, and
actually that is a pretty good
00:51:01.29\00:51:04.37
guess, that is a
pretty good guess.
00:51:04.41\00:51:06.25
I actually believe that
there may be evidence that would
00:51:06.29\00:51:10.03
fit along with the
biblical account on this.
00:51:10.07\00:51:12.47
This is some KT
material, it comes from Canada.
00:51:12.50\00:51:14.83
This little bit of rock
comes from the area right where
00:51:14.87\00:51:18.17
the arrows are pointing,
where it is believed that
00:51:18.21\00:51:21.68
whatever happened to make
that layer right there is what
00:51:21.72\00:51:24.95
killed the dinosaurs.
00:51:24.98\00:51:26.60
What they find in this material
is iridium, iridium is not
00:51:26.63\00:51:31.02
a commonly
occurring material on earth.
00:51:31.06\00:51:35.16
It is pretty much meteorites
and that area there is like
00:51:35.20\00:51:38.44
160 or so times the
average amount of iridium.
00:51:38.48\00:51:41.99
So it is a very highly
concentrated that is consistent
00:51:42.02\00:51:45.03
with an asteroid.
00:51:45.06\00:51:46.46
So the question is did an
asteroid strike cause the demise
00:51:46.49\00:51:52.73
of the dinosaurs?
00:51:52.76\00:51:53.88
One thing I like to point
out is, a few years ago they
00:51:53.91\00:51:57.71
didn't, the geological world
was not all that excited to
00:51:57.75\00:52:01.51
talk about
catastrophes in any form.
00:52:01.55\00:52:03.99
They preferred Uniformitarian
models and we will talk
00:52:04.03\00:52:07.09
about that, in other words long
ages, the same things you see
00:52:07.13\00:52:10.75
going on today pretty much is
what we used to have back then.
00:52:10.79\00:52:14.80
But now it is pretty well and
accepted thing that what took
00:52:14.84\00:52:18.82
out the dinosaurs was a
catastrophe of some kind.
00:52:18.85\00:52:21.87
It was a worldwide
catastrophe because wherever
00:52:21.90\00:52:24.85
dinosaurs were, and whatever
continent we are talking
00:52:24.88\00:52:27.19
about, they all
landed at that same layer.
00:52:27.22\00:52:29.80
That KT boundary,
Cretaceous on the bottom and the
00:52:29.83\00:52:33.59
Tertiary above, and that
little line is pretty much where
00:52:33.62\00:52:36.65
you do not find dinosaurs above.
00:52:36.68\00:52:38.71
Incidentally, that is an
issue for creationist too,
00:52:38.74\00:52:41.56
that it is the second
thing we will talk about, the
00:52:41.60\00:52:44.35
second problem for creationist
and that is fossil order.
00:52:44.38\00:52:47.33
In other words how things are
found only in certain layers.
00:52:47.36\00:52:50.28
A worldwide
flood is a challenge.
00:52:50.31\00:52:52.59
They find these big guys,
these big four-legged Sauropod
00:52:52.62\00:53:00.28
type of dinosaurs,
they are huge things.
00:53:00.31\00:53:02.81
Dinosaur national Monument
in eastern Utah and western
00:53:02.84\00:53:07.85
Colorado you will
find some marvelous things.
00:53:07.88\00:53:10.53
Question that people ask
is, I know this looks pretty
00:53:10.56\00:53:14.49
mythical, but take a look
at this picture of the ark.
00:53:14.52\00:53:18.38
What people ask me, Stan do
you think there were dinosaurs
00:53:18.41\00:53:23.57
that somehow snuck on the ark?
00:53:23.60\00:53:25.94
Before I answer that yes or
no or up or down, with just a
00:53:25.97\00:53:31.08
reminder that dinosaur
started off small so they don't
00:53:31.12\00:53:36.19
have to be adults right?
00:53:36.23\00:53:37.68
They could be little babies.
00:53:37.71\00:53:39.09
Anyway with that thought
I want you to take a look at
00:53:39.13\00:53:42.67
some other evidence.
00:53:42.70\00:53:44.29
The Grand Canyon carving
discovered in 1924 without any
00:53:44.33\00:53:48.40
chance of it being, remember a
T Rex had been only found about
00:53:48.44\00:53:52.81
19 years prior to this.
00:53:52.85\00:53:56.66
So there's no graffiti chances
to speak of in this part of
00:53:56.69\00:54:00.23
the Grand Canyon's.
00:54:00.26\00:54:01.27
Somebody drew something that
looked like a T Rex dinosaur.
00:54:01.30\00:54:04.87
Again almost all cultures
have stories of dragons.
00:54:14.57\00:54:18.24
Their stories will
go something like this.
00:54:18.27\00:54:21.55
This is just generated
from hundreds of stories its
00:54:21.59\00:54:24.78
generated down to
a typical type story.
00:54:24.82\00:54:27.48
You have a community in the
hills, and over there in a cave,
00:54:27.51\00:54:32.41
or by a bridge or somewhere
off some distance from town
00:54:32.45\00:54:36.76
is this animal.
00:54:36.79\00:54:38.10
This animal is a
problem to the locals.
00:54:38.13\00:54:40.64
Sometimes it just scares
them, or it munches on somebody.
00:54:40.68\00:54:44.00
Sometimes it is a problem
or whatever, and they either
00:54:44.03\00:54:47.00
send a hero over there,
or they send the crowd, or
00:54:47.03\00:54:49.92
something to smash this animal,
and that's the end of them.
00:54:49.96\00:54:53.24
There is almost never
flocks or herds of them, or any
00:54:53.27\00:54:57.60
groups of them, it is
always a solitary animal.
00:54:57.63\00:54:59.97
It is a scary thing and they
take it out and it is no more.
00:55:00.00\00:55:04.99
It is a fairly consistent
thing with many of the Dragon
00:55:05.03\00:55:09.99
stories and human encounters.
00:55:10.02\00:55:11.84
I'm just thinking, is this
an ancient memories from all
00:55:11.88\00:55:15.30
these different cultures
in the days when humans and
00:55:15.33\00:55:18.72
dinosaurs coexisted?
00:55:18.76\00:55:20.34
It is a possibility.
00:55:20.38\00:55:21.90
Let me tell you what the
evolutionist answer to that
00:55:21.93\00:55:23.88
point is, they will say because
the question how is it everybody
00:55:23.91\00:55:28.95
thinks of them as big reptiles?
00:55:28.98\00:55:31.20
Why isn't there big bears,
or big coyotes, or big you know
00:55:31.24\00:55:35.15
they all seem to be pretty
consistent on big reptiles.
00:55:35.18\00:55:39.06
What is the deal there?
00:55:39.09\00:55:40.47
So here's the evolutionist's
usual answer is something
00:55:40.51\00:55:44.01
like this, people have found
bones over the centuries and as
00:55:44.04\00:55:47.92
they looked at the
bones they have imagined big
00:55:47.96\00:55:49.74
reptiles from that.
00:55:49.77\00:55:51.40
Now I do not know
if that is the answer.
00:55:51.44\00:55:54.24
To me that is a little weak
because if I saw a bone like
00:55:54.27\00:55:57.25
this, I wouldn't be thinking
reptile, I wouldn't be thinking
00:55:57.29\00:56:00.23
lizard, I would be
thinking something big.
00:56:00.27\00:56:02.08
But I'm not sure if I am
atomically could tell from a
00:56:02.11\00:56:05.36
bone or two that we were
talking about a big lizard.
00:56:05.40\00:56:09.47
To me I think you would
like to hear a little better
00:56:09.51\00:56:12.84
explanation than that, I
still think these may be the
00:56:12.88\00:56:16.18
remnants of ancient
memories of encounters.
00:56:16.21\00:56:19.96
They get embellished with
age and mythologized with a lot
00:56:20.00\00:56:22.74
things added from generation
to generation and centuries,
00:56:22.77\00:56:25.56
but I am wondering if
there is a kernel of consistency
00:56:25.59\00:56:28.34
that we find
from China to Europe,
00:56:28.37\00:56:30.59
from Africa to all points.
00:56:30.63\00:56:33.28
There are these
ancient stories of dragons.
00:56:33.32\00:56:36.66
I find them kind of interesting,
in fact the very oldest
00:56:36.69\00:56:40.73
depiction that seems to
be, at least one of the very
00:56:40.77\00:56:44.73
oldest depictions is found
on the Ishtar gate of Babylon.
00:56:44.77\00:56:48.81
Here's a picture of part
reptile, part bird, part lion
00:56:48.84\00:56:53.12
thing that might be considered
an early idea of dragon.
00:56:53.16\00:56:57.40
On the gates of Babylon,
which I find interesting.
00:56:57.43\00:56:59.66
So again going back to
that old Dragon, the devil as it
00:56:59.69\00:57:04.41
talks about in Revelation, I
am just wondering if we could
00:57:04.44\00:57:09.12
imagine the old Dragon
is being an old dinosaur?
00:57:09.16\00:57:13.45
Using deceptive powers in
these last days, maybe, to call
00:57:13.49\00:57:17.50
attention away from our Creator
God and the story of Genesis.
00:57:17.53\00:57:21.51
I am just wondering if
there is a certain amount of
00:57:21.55\00:57:23.47
coincidence in the imagery of
the Dragon being the deceiver.
00:57:23.50\00:57:29.40
Okay, that is it and I
hope you enjoyed our talk today.
00:57:29.43\00:57:32.83
Thank you very, very much.
00:57:32.86\00:57:34.85