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>>Eric Flickinger: Welcome
to "Sabbath School" brought
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to you by It Is Written.
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Glad to have you
with us this week.
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We are looking at lesson number
seven, "The Problem of Evil."
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How do we reconcile the problem
of evil with a God who is God?
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Well, that's what
we're looking at this week.
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We're glad that you're here.
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Let's begin with prayer.
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Father, we ask that you
will guide our discussion,
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guide our study today as we look
more deeply into your character
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and your love for humanity.
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We ask your blessing on our
time together and we thank you.
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In Jesus's name, amen.
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Well, in addition to being glad
that you are here, we are also
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glad that the author of
this quarter's "Sabbath School"
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lesson is here.
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That is John Peckham.
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He is an associate
editor of the "Adventist Review"
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and also a research professor
at the Theological Seminary
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at Andrews University.
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John, welcome back once again.
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>>John Peckham: Thank you.
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>>Eric: So this week we're
looking at the problem of evil.
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We're getting down
into the meat of things.
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We've been kind of
leading this direction.
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Now we're dealing
with the problem of evil.
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We have this concept
that God is sovereign.
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He's
all-powerful, He's all-knowing,
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He's all-loving,
He's all justice,
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He's all these things,
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and yet we have
the existence of evil.
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How do we deal with this?
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>>John: Yeah, there's a lot
of approaches to the problem
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of evil, right?
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And the problem of evil is
typically laid out this way.
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It's typically based on these
omni-characteristics of God.
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God is all-powerful,
God is entirely good,
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He's all-knowing,
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and yet there's
evil in the world.
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And many philosophers, including
many atheists, have said these
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things just don't
fit together, right?
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One of these four
promises must be false.
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Either God is not entirely good,
or God is not all powerful,
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or God is not all knowing, or
there's not evil in the world.
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And they say, "Well, obviously
there's evil in the world."
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Therefore, the
argument for a long time was God
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does not exist.
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There's a lot of ways of
trying to resolve this problem.
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There are some who are
willing to say things like,
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"Oh, maybe God just
isn't powerful enough to deal
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with evil."
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But that's not a live option.
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For me, based on what the Bible
teaches, Jeremiah 32:17 says,
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"There's nothing
too hard for the Lord."
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It's clear he's all powerful.
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It's not a live option to
say, "Oh, he's not really good
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or he's caught by surprise."
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So, there must be some other
ways of addressing this problem.
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And scripture actually presents
a number of different ways.
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Doesn't answer all of
our questions, but provides
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a framework that we're gonna
be unpacking not just this week,
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but in the weeks to come about
these pieces of the puzzle that
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help us have a framework
for understanding how there
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could be so much evil and
suffering in a world where
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God is sovereign
and God is the ruler.
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>>Eric: So, in order to start
unpacking this, I wanna read
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a Bible verse here
and we're going to look
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at several of them.
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But from the book of Job,
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chapter 30 and verse number 26,
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it says, "But when I looked
for good, evil came to me;
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and when I waited for
light, then came darkness."
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So how does this verse help
us to understand the presence
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of evil in the world?
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>>John: Yeah, this and many
other verses in the Bible show
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us that the problem of evil is
not just an academic question.
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It's not just a modern
or contemporary question.
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The problem of evil is stated
directly in the Bible itself,
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even by
faithful servants of God.
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This is Job who's a
faithful servant of God
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who's undergoing
really unthinkable suffering
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and unthinkable
loss in the story.
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He's lost family members.
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He's lost prosperity.
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He's even afflicted
himself and this is all coming
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from an enemy, but
Job doesn't know this.
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And his friends are telling him,
"God must be doing this to you.
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He must be judging
you because these things
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wouldn't be happening to
you unless you deserve them
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because God is just."
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But Job knows
that's not the case.
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He doesn't deserve
what is happening to him.
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So he's wrestling with this.
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And he never comes to the point
to actually curse God or sin.
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But he has big questions.
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"I looked for
good and evil came."
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In other places, he says
that it's almost like God
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has become cruel to him.
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So he's wrestling
with this problem.
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And many biblical authors
wrestle with this problem
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throughout scripture.
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You have the psalmist in
Psalm 73 who looks around
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and he looks at the
prosperity of the wicked.
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Things seem to go well for them.
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And those who are following God,
they seem to be downtrodden.
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And he says, "Where is justice?"
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This troubles him deeply.
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And I would say to you,
if you're watching this,
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if you've wrestled with
this problem, you're not alone.
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This is a major
problem in scripture.
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You have the innocent suffering.
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You have John the Baptist
who Jesus calls a prophet
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greater than any other prophet
or at least there was no other
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prophet greater than him and yet
we know the end of his story.
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First he's languishing
in prison for his preaching,
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preparing the
way for the Messiah.
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He languishes in prison so
much so that he wonders if Jesus
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really is the Messiah after all.
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And in the end, in
this life, he is beheaded.
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And so suffering often comes.
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Darkness often comes especially
to those who are following God.
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And this is again not
just an academic issue,
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not just a contemporary problem,
it's a problem the authors
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of scripture
themselves are wrestling with.
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>>Eric: So we've
touched here in the book of Job
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on that and over in Psalms
as well, but if we come over
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to the New Testament,
you mentioned we're dealing
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with this now.
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It was an issue back
in the Old Testament.
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In the New Testament, even
with Jesus's cry of abandonment
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on the cross, "My God, My
God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
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How do we understand this,
the relationship between God
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and suffering,
between God and evil?
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What does that look like?
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>>John: Yeah, yeah, there's
at least a couple of things
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that I would want
to say here clearly.
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First of all, you can see
from this case and many others
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that the theology of
Job's friends was dead wrong.
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Their theology was,
if you're suffering,
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you must deserve it.
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If you're suffering because God
is all-powerful and God is just,
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that must mean that God is
judging you or God has brought
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this against you.
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We know clearly that's not
the case in the book of Job.
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It was not the case
for John the Baptist.
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And ultimately, the ultimate
example of innocent suffering
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is Jesus.
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He had done no sin
or evil His entire life.
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There was no sin in Him.
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He was utterly perfect.
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And yet, there He is at the
end, suffering and even dying
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on the cross.
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The greatest suffering inflicted
on Him is not even the physical
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suffering, but the sins
of the weight of the world
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on His shoulders, this is
the ultimate unjust suffering.
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And so we can see very clearly
that we cannot make the mistake
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of Job's friends of thinking
if someone is suffering,
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then they must have deserved it.
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And we know that in this world,
the righteous often suffer.
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This world is not fair.
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But it's not because God is
unfair, it's because there's
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much more going
on behind the scenes.
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Evil and injustice
has been introduced
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from elsewhere.
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But before we leave Jesus cry
of dereliction, there is hope
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even in that cry
because when Jesus says,
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"My God, My God, why
have you forsaken me?"
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He's actually
quoting from a psalm
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and it's Psalm 22.
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And that psalm ends in triumph.
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So even though He's crying,
why have you forsaken me?
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He knows in the end
there will be triumph
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because God is good.
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And this is true also for
those who suffer innocently
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throughout scripture.
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It was not the end of the story
for John the Baptist, it was not
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the end of the story for Christ.
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It will not be the end
of the story for anyone who
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suffers innocently, anybody who
is in Christ by faith will rise
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again even as He did and
God will make all things right.
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Now that still leaves us
with questions in the meantime,
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but we have a hope.
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>>Eric: And we're
gonna be continuing to delve
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into that as you've mentioned.
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I wanna touch for a minute
or two here, maybe a little bit
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longer, on this idea, the
skeptical theist perspective.
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It kind of
emphasizes human limitations
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and understanding God's reasons.
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How can that be both comforting
and challenging in the context
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of this problem of evil?
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>>John: Yeah, so the skeptical
theist is a way of responding
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to the problem of evil that is
actually probably not very well
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named because if you hear
the phrase skeptical theist,
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you probably think this is about
a theist, somebody who believes
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in a creator God, but
they're skeptical about Him.
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But that's actually not
where the skepticism is.
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The skeptical theist is
skeptical that you and I,
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with our relatively small
brains are capable of being
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in a position of understanding
why God has done what he
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has done or why God has
refrained from doing things
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that we might
think that He should do.
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And the skeptical
theist says, "You know what?
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"We're not in a position to
make those kinds of judgments.
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"There are many things we don't
know and we shouldn't expect
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to actually be in
that kind of a position."
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And so they would say something
like, "Even if we don't know any
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"of the reasons that
God might have for the way
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"that he is acting in the
world or refraining from acting,
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"it doesn't follow
from that that he doesn't
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have good reasons."
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Just because I can't see
those good reasons doesn't mean
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that He doesn't have them.
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And one particular philosopher,
he uses an example of these bugs
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that in some parts of America
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are called noceums
because they're so small,
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you know, noceum,
but they bite you.
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And the fact that you
can't see them doesn't mean
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they're not there, right?
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They're really there.
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And he says, similarly, the fact
that you can't always see God's
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reasons doesn't
mean they're not there.
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And actually, I would suggest
that this line of thought
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actually has biblical
roots, at least a version of it.
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I wouldn't say everything
they say, but a version of it is
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embedded in many stories,
including the story of Job.
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Like the way God responds
to Job in Job 38, for instance,
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is very instructive here.
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>>Eric: So let's look at
Job 38 and verse number 2.
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In Job 38, verse 2 it says,
"Who is this who darkens counsel
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by words without knowledge?"
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It's like a well-known verse.
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>>John: It's a well-known verse.
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And this is God who's responding
to Job because Job has been
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raising all kinds of questions
for what was happening to him.
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Job was suffering innocently.
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He didn't deserve it, but he
actually is so concerned and his
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friends are saying
it's God who did this.
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He's like, well, I would like
to have an audience with God.
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I'd almost even like to bring
God on trial to answer for this.
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And so he calls on God
throughout the book of Job,
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mostly a dialogue
with Job's friends.
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But finally at the end, God
appears out of the whirlwind
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and he says this
in one translation,
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one translation
says it this way.
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It's like a contemporary
English Version, I think.
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It says, God says to
Job, "Why do you talk so much
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when you know so little?"
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In other words, it's like, you
don't know what you don't know.
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There was so much more going
behind the scenes that you don't
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see that it really
should bring him to humility.
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And that was his response.
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He repents in dust and
ashes, recognizes I have spoken
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of that which I
did not understand.
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And it's a wonderful
lesson for us as well.
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Even in our darkest times when
we can't see away, we can't see
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the light, we should remember
there are many things that we
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don't know.
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And we shouldn't make
the mistake of Job's friends
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who talked way too much about
things they didn't know about.
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>>Eric: Yeah, a lesson for us,
hopefully one that we can learn.
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We are looking at
the problem of evil.
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As I mentioned, we're getting
right into the thick of some
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of the things that
people have big deep serious
00:11:35.19\00:11:37.66
questions about.
00:11:37.69\00:11:39.76
We have the quarterly,
the lesson study, but we also
00:11:39.79\00:11:42.13
have a companion book
that goes into greater detail.
00:11:42.16\00:11:45.27
deeper detail.
00:11:45.30\00:11:46.63
Tell us a little bit
about what's in there.
00:11:46.67\00:11:48.70
>>John: Yeah, in that
companion book, we walk through
00:11:48.74\00:11:52.51
multiple chapters that
are laying out an approach
00:11:52.54\00:11:54.98
to the problem of evil
that I call a theodicy of love,
00:11:55.01\00:11:57.75
but in very understandable,
00:11:57.78\00:11:59.65
accessible ways that you
can actually share with somebody
00:11:59.68\00:12:02.68
who is wrestling
with this problem.
00:12:02.72\00:12:04.35
It's the biggest problem
that most people who are atheist
00:12:04.39\00:12:07.92
or agnostic about God, this
is what they cite most commonly
00:12:07.96\00:12:12.03
for why they have
trouble believing in God.
00:12:12.06\00:12:14.46
And so it is a huge question
that demands not just pat
00:12:14.50\00:12:18.67
answers, but actually
biblical and thorough answers
00:12:18.70\00:12:21.74
that provides a framework.
00:12:21.77\00:12:23.10
And I get a chance
in the companion volume
00:12:23.14\00:12:25.54
to break that down.
00:12:25.57\00:12:26.94
And over multiple chapters, I
lay out seven points over time
00:12:26.98\00:12:31.21
that add up to what I believe
is a coherent way of approaching
00:12:31.25\00:12:34.32
this from the Bible.
00:12:34.35\00:12:35.65
>>Eric: So, very,
very valuable book.
00:12:35.68\00:12:37.55
And if you know someone who
might fall into that atheist
00:12:37.59\00:12:41.86
or agnostic or skeptical
framework, this would be
00:12:41.89\00:12:46.19
a fantastic book.
00:12:46.23\00:12:47.60
I'm not gonna suggest plan
A that you just buy the book
00:12:47.66\00:12:51.03
and give it to them.
00:12:51.07\00:12:52.40
Plan A, I'm gonna say you
buy the book and you read it
00:12:52.43\00:12:54.20
yourself so that you can
understand these concepts
00:12:54.24\00:12:57.61
and relate them to them.
00:12:57.64\00:12:58.94
Now, if you wanna buy
them a copy of the book too,
00:12:58.97\00:13:00.61
God bless you, I don't think
God's gonna fault you for that.
00:13:00.64\00:13:03.21
But don't go the
easy route and not read it
00:13:03.24\00:13:05.41
and understand it yourself.
00:13:05.45\00:13:06.82
Pick that book up and you
will be able to understand
00:13:06.85\00:13:09.28
the answers to these
questions more clearly yourself
00:13:09.32\00:13:12.65
and be able to express them to
those individuals that you come
00:13:12.69\00:13:16.26
in contact with and will help
them to be able to understand
00:13:16.29\00:13:19.56
the answers to
these questions as well.
00:13:19.59\00:13:21.26
You can find that
book at itiswritten.shop.
00:13:21.30\00:13:24.10
Again, itiswritten.shop.
00:13:24.13\00:13:26.94
We're going to be back in
just a moment as we continue our
00:13:26.97\00:13:29.54
journey through looking at
the God of love and justice.
00:13:29.57\00:13:32.71
We'll be right back.
00:13:32.74\00:13:34.44
>>male announcer: More
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00:14:08.64\00:14:12.75
>>Eric: Welcome
back to "Sabbath School"
00:14:12.78\00:14:14.08
brought to you by It Is Written.
00:14:14.12\00:14:16.22
We're looking at
lesson number seven,
00:14:16.25\00:14:17.85
seven of 13, as we take
a look at the God of love
00:14:17.89\00:14:21.32
and the God of justice.
00:14:21.36\00:14:23.06
And John, as we delve
back into this, I wanna look
00:14:23.09\00:14:27.30
at the subject, the
concept of free will.
00:14:27.36\00:14:29.56
And I'm going to read to
you a quote from C. S. Lewis
00:14:29.60\00:14:32.73
that you mentioned in,
let's see, this is Wednesday's
00:14:32.77\00:14:36.60
lesson, and it's
about midway down the page.
00:14:36.64\00:14:39.94
It says this, here's what he
writes: "Free will, though it
00:14:39.97\00:14:43.31
"makes evil possible, is
also the only thing that makes
00:14:43.35\00:14:46.82
"possible any love or
goodness or joy worth having.
00:14:46.85\00:14:50.85
"A world of automata--of
creatures that work like
00:14:50.89\00:14:54.66
"machines--would
hardly be worth creating.
00:14:54.69\00:14:57.83
"The happiness which God designs
for His higher creatures is
00:14:57.86\00:15:01.63
"the happiness of being freely,
voluntarily united to Him
00:15:01.66\00:15:05.90
"and to each other...
00:15:05.93\00:15:07.27
And for that they must be free."
00:15:07.30\00:15:10.14
So he's talking here a
little bit about free will
00:15:10.17\00:15:16.28
and the concept
of evil coexisting.
00:15:16.31\00:15:19.21
Unpack that for us.
00:15:19.25\00:15:20.65
>>John: Yeah, C.S. Lewis puts
very eloquently an idea that is
00:15:20.68\00:15:24.82
held by many
theologians and I think
00:15:24.85\00:15:26.45
it has very
strong biblical basis.
00:15:26.49\00:15:28.12
We're actually gonna talk about
the biblical basis for this
00:15:28.16\00:15:30.46
next week, in next
week's lessons, that God grants
00:15:30.49\00:15:34.30
creatures free will,
precisely because free will is
00:15:34.36\00:15:36.77
necessary for love.
00:15:36.80\00:15:39.57
But the issue with that
is, if God grants creatures
00:15:39.60\00:15:41.67
free will, then it's
not up to Him what they do
00:15:41.70\00:15:44.87
with that free will.
00:15:44.91\00:15:46.24
That means they
can use that free will
00:15:46.27\00:15:47.91
to do evil things.
00:15:47.94\00:15:49.48
And this is
actually put on the table.
00:15:49.51\00:15:51.78
It's been put on
the table in scripture.
00:15:51.81\00:15:54.08
It's put on the table
in the Christian tradition.
00:15:54.12\00:15:56.25
And in more recent
decades, it was put on the table
00:15:56.28\00:15:58.89
in a very robust philosophical
form by a Christian philosopher
00:15:58.92\00:16:03.16
by the name of Alvin Plantinga,
a world-class philosopher,
00:16:03.19\00:16:06.16
and he laid this out, something
called the free will defense.
00:16:06.19\00:16:08.60
And he takes that problem of
evil we saw at the beginning,
00:16:08.63\00:16:10.97
how can God be
all-powerful and entirely good
00:16:11.00\00:16:14.34
and all-knowing and yet
there's evil in the world.
00:16:14.37\00:16:16.34
And he says, "Well, if
God grants free will and he
00:16:16.37\00:16:18.97
"has a good reason for granting
free will, then it's not up
00:16:19.01\00:16:22.64
to God whether
evil is introduced."
00:16:22.68\00:16:25.75
And he lays that out in very
precise arguments so strongly
00:16:25.78\00:16:30.72
that even most atheist
philosophers have recognized
00:16:30.75\00:16:34.19
that the so-called
logical problem of evil has been
00:16:34.22\00:16:36.56
resolved by the
free will defense.
00:16:36.59\00:16:38.33
Now that doesn't necessarily
make them believers of course
00:16:38.36\00:16:41.16
and they would say there's
too much evil in the world they
00:16:41.20\00:16:43.67
move to another form
of the problem called
00:16:43.70\00:16:45.17
the evidential problem of evil.
00:16:45.20\00:16:46.60
"Okay, maybe you can have
some evil because of free will,
00:16:46.63\00:16:49.04
but why is there so much?"
00:16:49.07\00:16:50.41
But the reason I raise that is
because this free will defense
00:16:50.44\00:16:53.27
is very important.
00:16:53.31\00:16:54.61
If we recognize that God
grants creatures free will,
00:16:54.64\00:16:58.28
then that means there
are gonna be some things
00:16:58.31\00:17:00.35
in the world that are
not up to God to prevent.
00:17:00.38\00:17:03.75
In the same way that you can't
make a square circle, God can't
00:17:03.79\00:17:07.69
create a free being and
then at the same time withhold
00:17:07.72\00:17:10.29
freedom from them to do what
he might not want them to do.
00:17:10.33\00:17:14.56
And so this is known
as the free will defense.
00:17:14.60\00:17:17.10
And it's actually, I
think, the second part
00:17:17.13\00:17:19.93
after understanding there
are many things we don't know,
00:17:19.97\00:17:22.87
we should also recognize
00:17:22.90\00:17:24.74
that God doesn't always get what
he wants and this is because God
00:17:24.77\00:17:27.91
grants freedom and that's
why there is evil in the world.
00:17:27.94\00:17:30.51
>>Eric: So that helps us
understand from one perspective
00:17:30.55\00:17:34.95
the existence of evil.
00:17:34.98\00:17:36.28
It has to do with free will.
00:17:36.32\00:17:38.82
There's another angle
that I wanna kind of take this
00:17:38.85\00:17:42.49
from and that's the
sanctuary and judgment.
00:17:42.52\00:17:44.89
This theme in the Bible that,
of course, we have a better
00:17:44.93\00:17:48.80
understanding than
perhaps some others.
00:17:48.83\00:17:50.97
How does this
concept of the sanctuary
00:17:51.00\00:17:53.03
and the judgment
theme offer a response
00:17:53.07\00:17:56.07
to the problem of evil?
00:17:56.10\00:17:58.91
And how might this perspective
influence a believer's trust
00:17:58.94\00:18:04.31
in God?
00:18:04.35\00:18:05.68
>>John: Yeah, so if you look
at the history of the Bible,
00:18:05.71\00:18:07.95
you find actually that according
to the Bible, the problem
00:18:07.98\00:18:10.62
of evil begins in the
sanctuary and is dealt
00:18:10.65\00:18:12.69
with through the sanctuary.
00:18:12.72\00:18:14.39
When I say it begins in the
sanctuary, actually the fall
00:18:14.42\00:18:18.46
of the being we know now as
Satan who was a perfect angel
00:18:18.49\00:18:21.23
who fell from heaven.
00:18:21.26\00:18:22.60
This is just
described as a covering cherub
00:18:22.63\00:18:24.37
in the most holy place in
the book of Ezekiel and he falls
00:18:24.40\00:18:28.30
from that height and introduces
evil into the universe and God
00:18:28.34\00:18:31.34
is dealing with this problem
through the sanctuary system all
00:18:31.37\00:18:34.38
throughout the entire
story in a way that upholds love
00:18:34.41\00:18:38.65
without compromising justice.
00:18:38.68\00:18:40.75
God will not do anything
that undermines love, which is
00:18:40.78\00:18:42.85
why he grants
freedom, but he also cannot
00:18:42.88\00:18:44.65
compromise his justice.
00:18:44.69\00:18:45.99
And this is what is taking
place in the sanctuary system.
00:18:46.02\00:18:48.66
And to see this, I want us
to see what is said in Psalm 73.
00:18:48.69\00:18:53.43
In Psalm 73, I mentioned this,
I kind of summarized before how
00:18:53.46\00:18:56.36
you have the psalmist who's
really troubled by the evil he
00:18:56.40\00:18:59.57
sees in the
world, the injustice,
00:18:59.60\00:19:02.37
the seeming unfairness.
00:19:02.40\00:19:03.71
In fact, just at the beginning
of Psalm 73, he says, first
00:19:03.74\00:19:06.01
of all, he says,
"Truly God is good to Israel,
00:19:06.04\00:19:08.31
"to such as our pure in heart.
00:19:08.34\00:19:10.65
"But as for me, my
feet had almost stumbled;
00:19:10.68\00:19:14.08
"my steps had nearly slipped.
00:19:14.12\00:19:16.15
"For I was
envious of the boastful,
00:19:16.18\00:19:18.65
when I saw the
prosperity of the wicked."
00:19:18.69\00:19:21.32
And he goes on throughout this
to say, "Where is the justice?"
00:19:21.36\00:19:24.49
And this troubles him, right?
00:19:24.53\00:19:26.09
He almost slips, he
says, "Because of his envy."
00:19:26.13\00:19:28.50
Why are the wicked prospering?
00:19:28.53\00:19:31.20
Where is justice?
00:19:31.23\00:19:32.57
And in fact, we see that
sometimes justice is delayed,
00:19:32.60\00:19:35.57
but justice will not
ultimately be denied.
00:19:35.60\00:19:38.11
In the sanctuary
system, God makes a way to atone
00:19:38.14\00:19:42.08
for all sins for those who are
actually in Christ, but those
00:19:42.11\00:19:46.48
who reject that, justice
will also come on them as well.
00:19:46.51\00:19:51.45
And so justice
will come in the end.
00:19:51.49\00:19:54.69
All wrongs will be righted.
00:19:54.72\00:19:56.96
And the psalmist himself
actually sees this in Psalm 73.
00:19:56.99\00:20:01.76
He talks about how he was
troubled by the prosperity
00:20:01.80\00:20:05.57
of the wicked.
00:20:05.60\00:20:06.94
He says many other things.
00:20:06.97\00:20:09.40
But then he drops, if you
drop down to verse 16, verse 16
00:20:09.44\00:20:12.31
of Psalm 73, he says,
00:20:12.34\00:20:13.98
"When I thought
how to understand this,
00:20:14.01\00:20:16.68
"it was too painful
for me--until I went
00:20:16.71\00:20:20.88
into the sanctuary of God;
then I understood their end."
00:20:20.92\00:20:25.82
So he finds a
solution in the sanctuary.
00:20:25.85\00:20:29.92
And I would suggest also
that we also find the solution
00:20:29.96\00:20:33.46
in the sanctuary.
00:20:33.50\00:20:35.13
We find in the sanctuary system
the God who, among other things,
00:20:35.16\00:20:38.97
the God who Himself becomes
human in Christ, lowers himself
00:20:39.00\00:20:44.41
to suffer and even
die for the sins of others
00:20:44.44\00:20:47.71
even though he is
completely innocent.
00:20:47.74\00:20:49.71
He takes on his shoulders
responsibility, not culpability,
00:20:49.74\00:20:53.08
because He's not culpable,
but He takes responsibility
00:20:53.11\00:20:55.85
for all sin and evil.
00:20:55.88\00:20:57.19
And He doesn't just
sweep it under the rug.
00:20:57.22\00:20:59.55
No, He deals with it through
the sanctuary system in a way
00:20:59.59\00:21:03.86
that will not only be
just, not only resolve all
00:21:03.89\00:21:07.40
of the real problem of
evil, not just the theoretical
00:21:07.46\00:21:09.66
problem, but the actual
evil and suffering in the world,
00:21:09.70\00:21:12.43
but will do so in a way
that will inoculate the universe
00:21:12.47\00:21:15.50
from evil ever arising again.
00:21:15.54\00:21:19.37
And of course, we don't
have time here to unpack
00:21:19.41\00:21:21.61
these elements of
the sanctuary system.
00:21:21.64\00:21:24.15
But in that, we see the
character of God and what He
00:21:24.18\00:21:28.32
does to deal with all
of the evil in the world,
00:21:28.35\00:21:33.25
yet in a way that He doesn't
have to destroy the world,
00:21:33.29\00:21:36.09
but He can save everyone
who is willing to be saved.
00:21:36.12\00:21:39.63
>>Eric: So, understanding evil
in the context of the sanctuary
00:21:39.66\00:21:42.63
helps us or at least trying
to understand it in the context
00:21:42.66\00:21:46.10
of the sanctuary helps us to
get a little better grasp of it.
00:21:46.13\00:21:49.57
I wanna touch on one other thing
before we kind of close today,
00:21:49.60\00:21:52.74
and that's the
subject of humility.
00:21:52.77\00:21:55.21
Here we are trying to understand
this vast, deep, theological,
00:21:55.24\00:22:02.42
experiential concept.
00:22:02.45\00:22:05.99
And I say here, we are
trying to figure this out.
00:22:06.02\00:22:09.32
Sometimes we have a slightly
elevated view of ourselves
00:22:09.36\00:22:13.70
and our ability to grasp things.
00:22:13.73\00:22:15.40
How important is it for us
to be, to exercise a little bit
00:22:15.43\00:22:18.63
of humility when
we approach this?
00:22:18.67\00:22:21.34
>>John: Yeah, I would
say a lot of humility.
00:22:21.37\00:22:23.00
This is why the first
point, and for some, if no other
00:22:23.04\00:22:28.14
response to the problem of evil
is satisfying, it could even be
00:22:28.18\00:22:30.78
the last point is that there are
many things that we do not know.
00:22:30.81\00:22:36.12
And on some things we
should recognize we're not
00:22:36.15\00:22:38.75
in a position to know.
00:22:38.79\00:22:40.12
And therefore our answer
should be the same as the answer
00:22:40.16\00:22:43.63
that Job finally
arrived at when God says,
00:22:43.66\00:22:45.23
"Why do you talk so much
when you know so little?"
00:22:45.26\00:22:47.60
We should be humble
and recognize we don't know
00:22:47.60\00:22:50.33
what we don't know.
00:22:50.37\00:22:51.70
There are many
factors that we do not see.
00:22:51.73\00:22:54.00
And I think we can learn
a lesson from Job's friends.
00:22:54.04\00:22:58.24
And in fact, a couple of lessons
that I would want to emphasize
00:22:58.27\00:23:00.98
here for us today.
00:23:01.01\00:23:02.41
First of all, we've talked a lot
about maybe helping other people
00:23:02.44\00:23:05.05
wrestle with these things,
helping people see a framework.
00:23:05.08\00:23:07.25
One thing we should be careful
of is that when somebody is
00:23:07.28\00:23:10.05
going through very acute
suffering, often that's the last
00:23:10.09\00:23:13.19
time that it would be
helpful to give them kind of
00:23:13.22\00:23:15.62
a theoretical framework
to think about suffering.
00:23:15.66\00:23:17.76
At that time, they really need
somebody to draw near to them
00:23:17.79\00:23:20.63
and give them tangible care.
00:23:20.66\00:23:22.36
And there may be another time
where they're ready to wrestle
00:23:22.40\00:23:24.27
with the cognitive dissonance
and they're trying to ask
00:23:24.30\00:23:26.20
questions and
that's when this kind of
00:23:26.23\00:23:28.04
discussion can be helpful.
00:23:28.07\00:23:29.40
But usually in the
time of acute suffering,
00:23:29.44\00:23:31.17
it's not helpful at all.
00:23:31.21\00:23:32.57
And we actually see
that in the book of Job,
00:23:32.61\00:23:34.61
even though Job's friends
end up in the wrong place,
00:23:34.64\00:23:37.71
they start off really well.
00:23:37.75\00:23:39.41
Most people don't realize that
for the text says, "For a week,
00:23:39.45\00:23:43.45
they sat with Job in
silence and they comforted him."
00:23:43.49\00:23:46.65
And they were doing really well
until they opened their mouth
00:23:46.69\00:23:50.79
to try to explain
what was happening.
00:23:50.83\00:23:52.26
And when they did and they
said, "You must deserve this,"
00:23:52.29\00:23:54.96
they actually caused more harm
because they spoke about things
00:23:55.00\00:23:58.83
that they really didn't know
what they were talking about.
00:23:58.87\00:24:00.97
And if we're being honest
with ourselves, we can help see
00:24:01.00\00:24:03.77
a framework of God's goodness
and justice in spite of evil.
00:24:03.81\00:24:06.27
But when it comes to
why something is happening
00:24:06.31\00:24:08.41
to somebody who's suffering,
unless we're a prophet,
00:24:08.44\00:24:10.88
we don't really know.
00:24:10.91\00:24:12.25
And we shouldn't speculate
and say, "Oh, this happened
00:24:12.28\00:24:13.58
because of this, this
happened because of that."
00:24:13.62\00:24:14.92
Often we're just
heaping suffering on people
00:24:14.95\00:24:16.82
when we do that.
00:24:16.85\00:24:18.15
So we should
refrain from doing that.
00:24:18.19\00:24:19.85
And in all of this, we
should remember the humility
00:24:19.89\00:24:22.52
that the Bible teaches.
00:24:22.56\00:24:24.36
I wanna tell just a
brief story before I mention
00:24:24.39\00:24:29.70
the biblical teaching.
00:24:29.73\00:24:31.03
I remember very distinctly
a number of years ago,
00:24:31.07\00:24:33.34
my son wasn't
even two years old yet.
00:24:33.37\00:24:35.67
And my wife and I
discovered that he might have
00:24:35.70\00:24:38.87
a life-threatening condition.
00:24:38.91\00:24:40.44
So we rushed him to the
emergency room and he needed
00:24:40.48\00:24:44.18
to have a blood draw so that
they could see whether there
00:24:44.21\00:24:47.98
needs to be life-saving
intervention right away.
00:24:48.02\00:24:51.19
And he was frantic, you know.
00:24:51.22\00:24:52.52
He couldn't speak.
00:24:52.55\00:24:55.19
He probably couldn't understand
much of what we were saying.
00:24:55.22\00:24:57.53
And I remember the nurse saying
to my wife and I, you know,
00:24:57.56\00:25:00.66
hold down his arms and his legs
so that I can actually stick him
00:25:00.70\00:25:04.17
with a needle to
do the blood draw.
00:25:04.20\00:25:05.83
And I will never
forget the look in his eyes.
00:25:05.87\00:25:13.84
"Daddy, why are
you doing this to me?
00:25:13.88\00:25:17.61
"Daddy this hurts.
00:25:17.65\00:25:19.21
"Why are you hurting me?
00:25:19.25\00:25:20.55
Why are you letting me be hurt?"
00:25:20.58\00:25:22.15
And there was nothing that I
could have said to my son Joel
00:25:22.18\00:25:25.85
in that moment that would have
explained to him why I was doing
00:25:25.89\00:25:28.69
what I was doing.
00:25:28.72\00:25:30.06
But what I was doing
was for his best good.
00:25:30.09\00:25:32.06
It was the only
avenue available to me.
00:25:32.09\00:25:35.60
But there was no
explanation that would suffice,
00:25:35.63\00:25:38.27
but I did have a good reason
for doing what I was doing.
00:25:38.30\00:25:40.60
And if there's that
much distance between myself
00:25:40.64\00:25:43.57
and my good intentions and
my two-year-old son who couldn't
00:25:43.61\00:25:45.74
understand them, there's
even greater distance between us
00:25:45.77\00:25:48.88
and the
all-knowing, perfectly wise,
00:25:48.91\00:25:50.61
perfectly good
God of the universe.
00:25:50.65\00:25:52.31
And this is just what
the prophet Isaiah says
00:25:52.35\00:25:53.98
when he says, when God himself
says in Isaiah, "For My thoughts
00:25:54.02\00:25:57.69
are not your thoughts and
My ways are not your ways."
00:25:57.72\00:26:00.82
His ways are
much higher than ours.
00:26:00.86\00:26:03.06
And we should always remember
this, that there are many things
00:26:03.09\00:26:05.83
we do not know and we
shouldn't expect to be
00:26:05.86\00:26:08.23
in a position to know.
00:26:08.26\00:26:09.93
>>Eric: So, a healthy
dose of humility would serve us
00:26:09.96\00:26:12.43
well when we come up
against things like this.
00:26:12.47\00:26:15.04
And there's probably a few
other areas of the Bible where
00:26:15.07\00:26:17.27
that humility would
come in handy as well.
00:26:17.31\00:26:18.61
>>John: That's
right. There's a lot.
00:26:18.64\00:26:20.58
>>Eric: And so, we hope
and trust that this has been
00:26:20.61\00:26:23.98
a blessing to you.
00:26:24.01\00:26:25.35
It may have
generated some more questions.
00:26:25.38\00:26:26.72
That's okay.
00:26:26.75\00:26:28.05
Bible study
frequently does that.
00:26:28.08\00:26:30.05
But in the midst of
those questions that are being
00:26:30.09\00:26:32.19
generated, there are also
going to be a lot of answers
00:26:32.22\00:26:34.42
that we're going to be finding.
00:26:34.46\00:26:36.52
John, give us a
little perspective.
00:26:36.56\00:26:39.19
Where are we going?
00:26:39.23\00:26:40.70
Broad strokes,
umbrella perspective,
00:26:40.73\00:26:43.83
where are we going
with the rest of our
00:26:43.87\00:26:45.17
studies together?
00:26:45.20\00:26:46.50
>>John: Yeah, yeah, in the
coming weeks, we're gonna talk
00:26:46.53\00:26:47.84
more about this
idea of free will,
00:26:47.87\00:26:49.80
the fact that if God's
all-powerful, does he make
00:26:49.84\00:26:52.14
everything
happen the way he wants?
00:26:52.17\00:26:53.48
Does everything
happen according to his will
00:26:53.51\00:26:55.21
or is there
something else going on, right?
00:26:55.24\00:26:56.88
This idea of free will and how
it plays in the problem of evil.
00:26:56.91\00:26:59.58
And that will answer some of
our questions, but it will also
00:26:59.61\00:27:02.08
raise more questions like
you said, 'cause we'll realize
00:27:02.12\00:27:04.79
that just free will doesn't
seem to be enough to answer
00:27:04.82\00:27:06.99
all of our questions.
00:27:07.02\00:27:08.36
And for that, there's
much more to the story.
00:27:08.39\00:27:10.03
And we're gonna delve
into what we often refer
00:27:10.06\00:27:11.86
to as the great controversy
00:27:11.89\00:27:13.19
or the cosmic
conflict motif of scripture.
00:27:13.23\00:27:16.40
And there's many parts
of scripture that peels back
00:27:16.43\00:27:19.03
the curtain on what's
going on behind the scenes.
00:27:19.07\00:27:21.07
So we can see a
much larger framework
00:27:21.10\00:27:23.71
for this cosmic battle.
00:27:23.74\00:27:25.91
And that's one of the
reasons why our world looks
00:27:25.94\00:27:27.84
like a war zone
is because it is one.
00:27:27.88\00:27:29.78
And we're going to
see some of these pieces
00:27:29.81\00:27:31.41
together in the coming weeks.
00:27:31.45\00:27:32.78
And we're looking
forward to having you join us
00:27:32.81\00:27:34.98
on that journey.
00:27:35.02\00:27:36.35
We're going to be back again
next week with lesson number 8
00:27:36.38\00:27:39.22
here on "Sabbath
School", brought to you by
00:27:39.25\00:27:41.19
It Is Written.
00:27:41.22\00:27:42.69
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...
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