(inspirational theme music)
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>>Welcome to "Sabbath School,"
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brought to you by It Is Written.
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We're delighted
to have you with us,
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as we begin a brand new quarter,
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and the subject that
we're looking at this quarter
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is a fascinating one.
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It is one about which there is
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a great deal of
misunderstanding.
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There is some
apprehension, and yet
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there's also a lot of
peace and encouragement.
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This quarter, we're
looking at the subject
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of "Death, Dying,
and the Future Hope."
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And here on our
"Sabbath School" program,
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we are delighted
to have the author
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of this quarter's
lesson, Dr. Alberto Timm.
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He is an associate director
of the Ellen G. White Estate.
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Dr. Timm, welcome. We're
delighted to have you with us.
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>>I am very
delighted to be with you.
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It's a pleasure for me
to be able to join you.
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>>So this is an interesting
subject, the subject of death.
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A lot of people wonder about it.
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A lot of people worry about it.
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A lot of people feel that
they've pretty well got it down
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and understand it and have
it all figured out and so forth,
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and yet it is a subject
that we wanna spend some time on
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because even when we think
we've got it all figured out,
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there may be some things
for us to learn and maybe
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some things that we could
share with others, as well.
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So give us an idea
of kind of the scope
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of where we're going
to be going this quarter.
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We've got 13 weeks
ahead of us, 13 lessons,
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13 studies on this subject.
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What are some things that
we're going to be covering,
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and why is this so important?
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>>Actually, we are covering
many different subjects,
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especially when it
comes to the theories
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that are available today.
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There are many different
perspectives that we have,
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and world
religions around the globe
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have proposed
different approaches to it,
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different
understandings of what happens
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when somebody dies.
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But what we really want
to do is to cover the Bible,
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what the Bible has to say,
and how the Bible explains it
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within the
framework of the great
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cosmic historical controversy
between good and evil.
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And I think that this is a
major topic for us to understand
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due to the many
different expressions
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of mysticism, spiritualism,
different theories that we have
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since the most remote
times of human history.
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So I think that we need, really,
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to have a clear understanding
of the Bible concept
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of this topic in a time
where we have a huge mosaic
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of philosophical and ideological
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proposition expressions.
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>>So we're
launching into this right now,
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and we're kind of
studying, at least loosely,
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the "Sabbath
School" Adult Sabbath School
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Bible Study Guide, the
quarterly studies, as it were,
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but this didn't just happen.
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I mean, a quarterly
didn't just appear one day.
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It had an origin. So how
far back does this lesson go?
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When did it kind of
start coming into being?
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What was the impetus that
caused it to be and so forth?
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Give us a little history.
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>>Well, some four years, I
don't know exactly the date,
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but my friend Cliff
Goldstein asked me to write
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a Sabbath school quarterly,
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and we discussed
a few possibilities,
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and finally he said, "I
want you to write on this topic,
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the state of the dead."
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And then I asked him,
"But why do you want me
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to do something on this matter?"
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He said,
"Because there is a need.
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"Many people worldwidely
are really having doubts,
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"asking questions. They
are faced with this kind of...
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"even near-death experiences
that are available today--
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"or very much
popular in our days--
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"and other kinds of experiences.
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"People in
different places of the world
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"have influences from
different world religions
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"that do not fit with the Bible,
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"and we need a solid
ground from the Bible
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to understand this topic."
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So that was the
beginning of the whole process.
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And of course, it
took time, really,
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to dig into it from a
historical perspective
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a little bit and
also from the biblical,
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what the Bible has to say.
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>>So it's been
several years in the making.
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It's a subject that
has plagued humanity
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with
misconceptions over the years,
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and misconceptions
still exist today,
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different mindsets,
different worldviews,
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different
philosophies, as you mention,
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and our first lesson
here really kind of lays
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the framework or the
groundwork or the foundation
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for where we're
gonna be going over
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the course of the
next several weeks.
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It's called "Rebellion
in a Perfect Universe."
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So God, we know, is good.
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What he makes is
good, good, and very good.
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He knows the end
from the beginning,
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but yet we have
this problem of sin;
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we have this problem of death
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that we see in existence today.
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How do we explain
this good and evil,
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this right and wrong that
we see in the world today,
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sometimes even a
blending of the two?
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Somehow sin happened--I
don't know if that's the word
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that I feel
completely comfortable with,
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but I lack a
better one at the moment.
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How did this begin?
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Why are we in the situation
that we're in right now?
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>>Some people
believe that evil started
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in the Garden of Eden.
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But you have to remember
that at the Garden of Eden,
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there was, prior to
the fall of Adam and Eve,
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there was a serpent,
and then comes the question,
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"And what was the
origin of the serpent
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tempting Adam and Eve?"
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So it brings us
back into some kind of--
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I don't know if we
should call it a proto-history--
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but prior to human history,
there was something going on.
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Of course, there
are different theories.
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For instance, some people say
that evil is just an illusion.
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There is no evil, as such.
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Other ones say that God
and evil are co-eternal,
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so they did not
have a beginning,
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and some people
even arguing this way:
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If there is good,
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for good to be
considered as such,
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to be good, it has to always
exist in contrast to evil.
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So evil would be
co-eternal with good.
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And other ones even argue
that God is the source of both,
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good and evil.
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But if we study the
Bible, and we have many passages
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that deal with this,
the Bible is very clear
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of saying that
evil is not eternal.
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It had a beginning, and
the beginning took place
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with an angel in
heaven called Lucifer,
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who rebelled against
God and who really was
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the beginning of
everything and even convinced
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other angelic beings, and
finally it came to this earth.
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So this is just a framework
for us to start our discussion.
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>>You speak of
Lucifer kind of being part
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of the origin of evil.
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Our memory verse for this
week is from the book of Isaiah.
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It's Isaiah, chapter
14 and verse number 12.
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I'm gonna go ahead
and read that here.
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Isaiah 14, verse 12 says,
"How you are fallen from heaven,
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"O Lucifer, son of the morning!
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"How you are cut
down to the ground,
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you who weakened the nations!"
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So here's this
picture of Lucifer,
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a perfect being, God
created a perfect being,
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but then something happened.
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What kind of evidence do
we have in the Bible of--
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or do we have evidence in
the Bible of what happened
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or why it
happened or how it happened
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or what, how
did sin get in here?
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How did rebellion have
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an initial starting point
or something along those lines?
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>>When it comes
to the beginning,
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and you remember that neither
of us was alive when it came
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into existence, so we are
dependent of the eyewitnesses,
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and no better than
God himself, who was there
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when these things happened.
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And actually, we have
three key Bible passages
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that help us to
understand the origin of evil.
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And one of those is
Ezekiel, chapter 28.
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And that chapter is
a very significant one.
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In there, it speaks
about the earthly king of Tyre.
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And that king was
considered himself,
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he was
considering himself as a god,
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somebody that really was
very powerful and who really
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ended up very
proud of his beauty,
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his power, his
whatever else you want to add.
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But it's very interesting,
the movement in this chapter--
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and you can study it later on--
00:10:06.10\00:10:08.34
I am referring to
Ezekiel, chapter 28,
00:10:08.34\00:10:12.21
and this earthly
king then later on
00:10:12.21\00:10:16.34
assumes as a symbol, as a type,
00:10:16.34\00:10:20.38
as a figure of
an angelical being.
00:10:20.38\00:10:25.22
So, this earthly king
represented an angelic being,
00:10:25.22\00:10:29.89
and that being really
was very proud of himself,
00:10:29.89\00:10:33.73
of his beauty,
his wisdom, and so on.
00:10:33.73\00:10:38.77
And there you see immediately
00:10:39.67\00:10:41.50
that kind of change from the
earthly to the heavenly realms.
00:10:41.50\00:10:46.47
You have something similar
also in Isaiah, chapter 14.
00:10:47.94\00:10:50.91
And there now is the king of
Babylon, another earthy king,
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and he also was a
symbol of Lucifer.
00:10:57.12\00:11:01.02
Either it starts
with a human being,
00:11:01.02\00:11:04.36
and then it moves
to angelical being.
00:11:04.36\00:11:07.23
So that kind of
transition in the chapter
00:11:07.23\00:11:10.90
is very significant and we
have to take into consideration.
00:11:10.90\00:11:15.20
But then you go to chapter
12 of the book of Revelation.
00:11:15.20\00:11:20.08
In there it says that
there was actually some kind
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of war in heaven,
00:11:24.48\00:11:26.45
not only a clash of
ideas, of ideologies,
00:11:26.45\00:11:30.12
but it was really an
actual war, the chapter says.
00:11:30.12\00:11:33.79
And there was
Michael fighting against
00:11:33.79\00:11:37.79
this Lucifer or dragon,
the old serpent, and finally
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he was expelled from heaven.
00:11:42.73\00:11:45.27
So that was
basically the beginning of it.
00:11:45.27\00:11:48.00
It was in the heavenly
courts that it happened,
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and it then later on
spread to this earth.
00:11:51.71\00:11:55.08
>>And so we're living in
the middle of that right now,
00:11:56.54\00:11:58.51
and, Alberto, you made
mention of Ezekiel, chapter 28.
00:11:58.51\00:12:01.95
I'm gonna read just a
couple of short passages here.
00:12:01.95\00:12:04.25
They're fascinating.
00:12:04.25\00:12:05.79
In Ezekiel 28, it
says in verse number 12,
00:12:05.79\00:12:08.42
"You were the seal of
perfection"--the seal of
00:12:08.42\00:12:13.13
perfection-- "full of
wisdom and perfect in beauty."
00:12:13.13\00:12:16.56
Then drop down
to verse number 14.
00:12:16.56\00:12:18.80
It says, "You were the
anointed cherub who covers;
00:12:18.80\00:12:21.17
"I established you; you were
on the holy mountain of God;
00:12:21.17\00:12:24.61
"you walked back and forth in
the midst of the fiery stones.
00:12:24.61\00:12:27.94
"You were perfect in your ways
00:12:27.94\00:12:30.78
"from the day you were created,
00:12:30.78\00:12:33.55
till iniquity was found in you."
00:12:33.55\00:12:36.02
We're gonna come back
in just a couple of minutes
00:12:36.02\00:12:39.39
and look at this
concept of perfection
00:12:39.39\00:12:43.12
that God had
brought into existence,
00:12:43.12\00:12:46.23
and Lucifer here
was a perfect being,
00:12:46.23\00:12:50.40
and yet somehow in the
midst of this perfection,
00:12:50.40\00:12:53.77
somehow
imperfection reared its head,
00:12:53.77\00:12:57.07
and we're gonna dig
into that when we come back
00:12:57.07\00:12:59.14
in just a
moment, but before we go
00:12:59.14\00:13:00.81
to our quick break,
I wanna encourage you
00:13:00.81\00:13:03.14
if you are interested
or if you know someone
00:13:03.14\00:13:05.98
who is really interested
in digging into this subject
00:13:05.98\00:13:08.85
more deeply, I wanna
encourage you to pick up
00:13:08.85\00:13:11.39
the companion book to this
quarter's Bible study guide.
00:13:11.39\00:13:14.52
It is called "On Death,
Dying, and the Future Hope,"
00:13:14.52\00:13:18.36
and of course the
author is Dr. Alberto Timm,
00:13:18.36\00:13:21.73
who is our guest here
on "Sabbath School" today.
00:13:21.73\00:13:24.80
You can pick that
up at itiswritten.shop.
00:13:24.80\00:13:28.20
Again, that's itiswritten.shop.
00:13:28.20\00:13:30.57
The name of the companion book,
00:13:30.57\00:13:31.64
"On Death, Dying,
and the Future Hope."
00:13:31.64\00:13:34.71
We're going to be
back in just a moment
00:13:34.71\00:13:36.61
as we look more
deeply into this concept
00:13:36.61\00:13:39.38
of perfection and how
imperfection came from it.
00:13:39.38\00:13:43.45
We'll be right back.
00:13:43.45\00:13:44.72
(inspirational theme music)
00:13:44.72\00:13:47.19
>>[Melissa Bradshaw]
If you enjoy coloring,
00:13:48.29\00:13:49.96
then you're going to love the
Buried Treasure Coloring Book
00:13:49.96\00:13:52.69
from My Place With Jesus.
00:13:52.69\00:13:54.63
The Buried
Treasure Coloring Book
00:13:54.63\00:13:56.16
has more than
just pictures to color.
00:13:56.16\00:13:58.37
You'll also
enjoy activity pages,
00:13:58.37\00:14:00.67
each accompanied by
their very own audio story.
00:14:00.67\00:14:03.57
>>[John Bradshaw] "Mr.
Dixon came across a small
00:14:03.57\00:14:05.94
well-weeded rice patch
out in the middle of a field."
00:14:05.94\00:14:10.15
>>[Melissa] Get
ahead of a rainy day
00:14:10.15\00:14:11.78
or a relaxing
evening as a family
00:14:11.78\00:14:13.72
and order the Buried
Treasure Coloring Book
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from It Is Written.
00:14:16.38\00:14:17.92
>>[John Bradshaw] More
and more people are watching
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They're watching their
favorite It Is Written programs,
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>>Welcome back
to "Sabbath School,"
00:14:54.02\00:14:55.46
brought to you by It Is Written.
00:14:55.46\00:14:57.63
We are continuing our
study into a brand new quarter
00:14:57.63\00:15:01.76
looking at "Death,
Dying, and the Future Hope,"
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and we left off
with this question
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about if God
created everything perfect,
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including
Lucifer, what happened?
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So, how do we
understand this concept
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of evil in a perfect universe?
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Alberto, can you
help us to understand that
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a little bit better?
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>>I don't, can't
help you to understand
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for one simple
reason. (chuckles)
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Evil is something
absolutely mysterious.
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There is no way for us to
explain the origin of evil.
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We can, of course, say we
know with whom it started.
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Basically, it was in heaven,
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but the evil really
exists but has no way
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to be explained as such.
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It has a
mysterious, unreasonable
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understanding and beginning.
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In this way, some theologians--
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and I refer, for
instance, to Berkouwer,
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is a Dutch theologian. He even
says that there is no reason,
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there is no way
of explaining it,
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and Ellen White says,
"If we would be able to find
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"a reasonable way
of explaining evil,
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we would end up justifying
the existence of evil."
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So it has no
reason to exist as such.
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It is absolutely mysterious.
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What we know is that
God created human beings,
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including Lucifer and the
rebellious angels, with free
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will, and they misused
free will, but how it happened
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is something that's
absolutely unexplainable.
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>>I think for dealing with
something that is unexplainable,
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you did an excellent job
of explaining that concept.
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It's something that,
if we could explain it,
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somehow it would cease
to--it would seem like,
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as you said, it
would seem justifiable,
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because we could say,
"Okay, now I understand why."
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But there is no
understanding why.
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It simply is, and
it came into being.
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But let's step
back just a little bit.
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We know that Lucifer rebelled.
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He became Satan, he
became the adversary,
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he became the devil, a
perfect angel God created,
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and he rebelled,
but then sometimes
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people ask the
question, "But didn't God know
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"that Lucifer would rebel?
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"If God knows the
end from the beginning,
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"if he knew what
was going to happen,
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"why did he create
Lucifer to begin with?
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"Or why did he create
Lucifer with the ability
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to do what he did? Why
didn't God just not create him
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and save us all
this pain and anguish?"
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How would you answer someone
who asked a question like that?
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>>There are several elements
that we have to bring together
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to understand
this matter better.
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One of those is
the very nature of God.
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God is love, and
you know that love
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cannot live in isolation.
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Love only exists if
it's expressed to somebody,
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and to express it,
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the person has to
be receptive to love,
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should respond also, and this
does not happen with machines
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or what--things--or if somebody
would not have free will,
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would not work either.
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So God created beings,
angelical beings in heaven,
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and human beings
also, capable of responding.
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But granting free will to
somebody always face the risk,
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and that was the case of God.
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But at the same
time, God is love,
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and he would like
to face this risk.
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Of course, God knows
the end from the beginning,
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and God was not
taken by surprise.
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He knew that Lucifer
would rebel, but even so,
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he faced the
risk and created him,
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because God's foreknowledge,
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or his knowledge of the future,
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is absolute but
is not causative.
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Some people say, "Well,
if God knew and created,
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then he's responsible for evil."
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Not the case. For one reason,
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because he was the one
that would have to pay the price
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for the rebellion of Lucifer,
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and that is what
he paid on the cross
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through the life and
death of Jesus Christ.
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But remember,
God knows the future.
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It's something
like let's suppose
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that you decide to get married.
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You know that sometimes
marriage does not work,
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but for the sake of love,
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because you love somebody,
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even knowing that
there are possibilities,
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you want to face the risk.
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>>So God didn't, God's
not responsible for evil.
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He's not responsible for death.
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He's not responsible for sin.
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But Lucifer exercised
his freedom to choose,
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and he exercised it,
we might say, poorly,
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and as a result of
that, we live in the world
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that we live in today.
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Let's take a
look at evil, at sin,
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at death from a slightly
different perspective here.
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God is eternal.
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He had no
beginning, and he has no end.
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We live in a
universe that, at least as far
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as we're aware, had
some sort of a beginning.
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It's continuing through the
time that we're in right now,
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and something's going to
happen to it in the future.
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What about evil?
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How does evil fit
into this cosmic timeline
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that we find ourselves in?
We know that it had a beginning,
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because we read
about that in the Bible,
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in the several
passages you talked about,
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in Ezekiel and Isaiah
and Revelation, chapter 12.
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Evil had a beginning.
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Is it reasonable
to hope, dare we hope,
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that evil is also going
to have an end at some point?
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>>Definitely so,
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because evil was
never a part of God's plan.
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Some people claim that
evil is part of God's plan
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through
predestination because then
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he could show his love,
but God does not need evil
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to show his love
because he could really show
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his love, and he did so prior
to the rebellion of Lucifer,
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his angels, and then
later on human beings as well.
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But there is one crucial
point in this whole discussion.
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Within this great controversy
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between God and
Satan, good and evil,
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Satan decided to
accuse God of being unjust,
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that his own model of government
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would be far better than God.
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God was very much
into follow his own agenda,
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his rules, and so on,
and then Lucifer showed up
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offering some
better form of government.
00:22:43.22\00:22:47.03
And that was the
beginning of evil,
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and throughout human
history, you could ask
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the question, for
instance, "But, okay,
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"that God
allowed evil to appear,
00:22:57.11\00:23:00.71
but why did he not
stop it immediately
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or in the past?"
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Well, we don't have
answers to all the questions
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that we raise because we
are in a mysterious topic,
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and we can only study mysteries
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as long as the Bible takes us.
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But what we know is
that God allowed evil
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to continue throughout
human history because evil
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has to mature and
show its very nature.
00:23:29.60\00:23:34.21
And I think that
we are living today
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in one of the most crucial
moments of human history,
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where our society, our world,
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our political systems
are really almost collapsing.
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And it will come to a
point where it really would be
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either God
intervenes in human history,
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or humanity will out
to destroy or self-destroy
00:23:55.93\00:24:00.07
themselves, I
mean, the human race.
00:24:00.07\00:24:04.97
But, as I mentioned
before, God never planned
00:24:06.27\00:24:09.98
evil to exist. He
only allowed it to exist.
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So, since it's not
part of God's plan,
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definitely he's
planning to put an end on it,
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and he knows exactly when,
00:24:23.02\00:24:25.43
and human history is a
long process where good
00:24:25.43\00:24:29.00
and evil is
struggling, and each one,
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good and evil, is
demonstrating their own nature,
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and finally evil
will be destroyed.
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And this is the topic
that we'll be studying
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throughout this quarter.
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>>So that's encouraging.
00:24:44.08\00:24:45.45
We know that evil is
going to one day be destroyed.
00:24:45.45\00:24:48.15
The bad news is, if
we can call it bad news--
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I think it's
appropriate--right now
00:24:50.85\00:24:52.55
we're living in a
world that seems to be
00:24:52.55\00:24:55.09
just inundated
with evil and sin.
00:24:55.09\00:24:58.09
So we've looked briefly at
Lucifer's rebellion in heaven.
00:24:58.09\00:25:01.66
What lessons can we
learn about Lucifer's rebellion
00:25:01.66\00:25:06.57
in heaven that we could
apply to our lives to help us
00:25:06.57\00:25:09.97
not head that same direction?
00:25:09.97\00:25:12.57
>>Well, there are
different explanations to why
00:25:12.57\00:25:15.51
or the way how Lucifer
really started his rebellion,
00:25:15.51\00:25:19.61
but I like a thought
that is that he actually lost,
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in a mysterious way,
as we mentioned before,
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his thankfulness to God. He
was no longer thankful to God.
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And in other words, he
considered himself more
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important that God really
considered him, or than he was,
00:25:38.10\00:25:42.87
so proudness was a
key element in his nature.
00:25:42.87\00:25:47.94
And I tell you
something, in life,
00:25:48.98\00:25:50.71
the worst thing that
can happen to you and to me
00:25:50.71\00:25:54.25
is if we start
considering us as more important
00:25:54.25\00:25:58.35
than we are,
than we actually are.
00:25:58.35\00:26:01.76
And sometimes we believe, "Well,
00:26:01.76\00:26:03.83
"I should have more recognition,
00:26:03.83\00:26:05.69
be more recognized in
my work here and there."
00:26:05.69\00:26:08.83
I always say the following:
00:26:08.83\00:26:11.30
When I was a teacher,
a professor of theology,
00:26:11.30\00:26:15.50
I used to say,
"Well, prepare yourself
00:26:15.50\00:26:19.37
"the more you can, to the most,
00:26:19.37\00:26:24.28
but don't expect too much and
you will never be frustrated."
00:26:24.28\00:26:28.75
It does not mean that
you cannot have ideals,
00:26:28.75\00:26:32.02
but remember,
proudness is the worst thing
00:26:32.02\00:26:36.22
that can happen in
your life and in my life.
00:26:36.22\00:26:41.03
But one thing that
amazes me from all this
00:26:41.03\00:26:45.33
is that even knowing
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the nature of Satan,
00:26:48.30\00:26:52.97
God decided to
create him because he loves
00:26:52.97\00:26:56.48
not only his own
friends but even his enemies,
00:26:56.48\00:27:00.92
and this is the pattern
of love that we should have.
00:27:00.92\00:27:05.25
God loves even his enemies,
and I tell you something.
00:27:05.25\00:27:08.86
You might be
surprised about this.
00:27:08.86\00:27:10.96
He loves his
greatest enemy, that is Satan,
00:27:10.96\00:27:14.83
and this is the
pattern, as I mentioned, of love
00:27:14.83\00:27:17.87
that Christ in the sermon
on the mountain mentioned,
00:27:17.87\00:27:20.90
that we should have as well.
00:27:20.90\00:27:23.64
>>Dr. Timm, I wanna
thank you for joining us today
00:27:23.64\00:27:26.78
on our study through
the Sabbath school lesson,
00:27:26.78\00:27:29.48
and we, of course, are going
to be welcoming you back again
00:27:29.48\00:27:32.58
next week and the week after
00:27:32.58\00:27:34.48
and the week after
as we continue looking
00:27:34.48\00:27:36.69
at "Death, Dying
and the Future Hope."
00:27:36.69\00:27:39.09
And we also hope that you
will join us week after week
00:27:39.09\00:27:42.39
as we continue to
find encouragement and hope
00:27:42.39\00:27:46.83
in God's Word as we unpack
it and learn more about him
00:27:46.83\00:27:50.00
and his plan for
your life. God bless you.
00:27:50.00\00:27:52.87
Have a wonderful day,
and we'll look forward
00:27:52.87\00:27:54.47
to seeing you again next
time on "Sabbath School,"
00:27:54.47\00:27:57.21
brought to you by It is Written.
00:27:57.21\00:27:59.47
(inspirational theme music)
00:27:59.47\00:28:03.71
(music ends)
00:28:26.33\00:28:28.94