Participants: John Bradshaw
Series Code: IIWR
Program Code: IIWR000004A
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01:30 ♪[Theme music]♪
01:40 ♪[Theme music]♪ 01:49 >>John: Welcome to this special broadcast from It Is Written. 01:52 I'm John Bradshaw. 01:53 And this is 500, 01:56 an in-depth look at the Protestant Reformation, 01:58 which in 2017 is 500 years old. 02:04 In our last program, 02:06 we looked at the ministry and the life of the great English 02:08 reformer and Bible translator William Tyndale, 02:12 and at how the Bible was absolutely central 02:15 to the Protestant Reformation. 02:18 This time, our program is 02:19 “Rome and the Reformation.” 02:21 We'll look at the role of the Roman Catholic Church which, 02:24 after all, was the central focus of the Reformation. 02:28 My special guest later in the program will be 02:31 Professor of Near-Eastern Studies and Archaeology at 02:34 Southern Adventist University, Dr. Michael Hasel. 02:37 Dr. Hasel, thanks for being here. 02:39 >>Dr. Hasel: It's great to be with you. 02:40 >>John: I'm looking forward to this in-depth look 02:42 at Rome's role in the Reformation. 02:45 Do you think many people today are conscious 02:49 that 500 years ago Rome was front and center 02:53 in the religious world and really brought about such 02:55 profound changes in the 02:57 religious and political landscape? 02:59 >>Dr. Hasel: I think some are. 03:00 And I think, um, a lot has changed in those 500 years, 03:04 and yet we're seeing changes here again today 03:07 that seems to be moving back into the direction 03:09 of what happened 500 years ago. 03:11 >>John: Thanks for being here. 03:12 In a few moments we'll look at this in depth. 03:15 Our program “Rome and the Reformation” 03:17 took us to some fascinating locations, 03:19 including, unsurprisingly, Rome. 03:22 And to the Vatican City. 03:24 As a former Roman Catholic, this program was important to me. 03:29 I was raised as a Roman Catholic in a Roman Catholic family, 03:32 in a town where the Catholic church 03:34 was the most prominent church in town. 03:37 The mayor of the town attended our church, 03:39 as did anyone who was really anyone. 03:43 I was convinced as a Roman Catholic 03:45 I was part of the largest church on the planet. 03:47 We had the pope. 03:49 We had St. Peter's. 03:51 When Pope John Paul the Second visited New Zealand, 03:54 I made something of a pilgrimage, 03:56 traveling many hours from where I was living at the time, 03:59 to the largest city in New Zealand, 04:01 to a mass mass. 04:04 Tens of thousands of people had gathered together 04:06 at the Auckland Domain to see Pope John Paul the Second, 04:10 and I was part of that. 04:12 As a younger child, 04:14 there was a time that I did not miss mass 04:16 a single day in two and half years. 04:20 And when I say a single day, 04:21 I mean a single day and not a single Sunday. 04:23 It was quite a streak of church attendance. 04:26 And, and as an altar boy, 04:28 I was very close to the heart and the life of the church. 04:32 And I was glad to be. 04:35 But perhaps what I had 04:36 was something of a Martin Luther moment, 04:39 when as a Roman Catholic child 04:42 I started to spot what I considered to be 04:45 some inconsistencies in my faith. 04:49 And it might be that that's how the Reformation began. 04:54 We're familiar with the story now, 04:55 and we'll look at it again and again during 500, 04:59 that as a Roman Catholic priest Martin Luther 05:02 discovered what he believed to be inconsistencies in his faith. 05:07 And this led him to deep study of the Bible, 05:11 and then the realization that much of what his church 05:13 was teaching was not consistent with the Word of God. 05:17 Hence, the reformation was born. 05:20 In this program, “Rome and the Reformation,” 05:23 we'll take you to some impressive locations. 05:26 We'll visit the Vatican City. 05:28 We'll go to St. Peter's Basilica. 05:31 And when you visit monuments like St. Peter's, 05:33 you start to understand why the Roman Catholic faith 05:37 is so influential, 05:39 so dominant in the minds and thinking of so many people. 05:41 St. Peter's is impressive. 05:44 The architecture is splendid. 05:47 The monuments to the great heroes of the 05:50 Roman Catholic Church of the past are there for all to see. 05:54 So when we look at Rome and the Reformation, 05:57 what do we look at? 05:59 We look at a system that for hundreds of years 06:02 was the dominant force, religiously and politically, 06:07 throughout the entire world. 06:09 We look at a system that came to the place where it was, 06:12 at least others believed, in desperate need of reform. 06:16 And it was the reform of the Roman Catholic Church 06:21 that led people like Martin Luther and others; 06:24 Ulrich Zwingli, 06:25 John Knox, 06:26 John Calvin, 06:27 William Farel, 06:28 many others besides, 06:30 to go to the Bible and discover what the Bible 06:32 had to say in terms of faith and practice. 06:35 And it's worth asking the question today: 06:38 the Reformation which 500 years ago 06:41 had such a profound influence on the Roman Catholic Church, 06:44 what effect does it have on the Roman Catholic Church today? 06:49 Is Rome dominant today as it was 500 years ago? 06:52 And if not as it was 500 years ago, 06:56 how does Rome impact the world today, 07:00 politically as well as religiously? 07:05 And so in just a few moments, “Rome and the Reformation,” 07:09 filmed on location in Europe. 07:12 And after “Rome and the Reformation,” 07:14 I'll be back again to speak with Dr. Michael Hasel of 07:16 Southern Adventist University. 07:17 Don't go away. 07:18 We'll be right back.” 07:19 ♪[Music]♪ 07:26 >>John: Who is the mystery beast of Revelation? 07:29 The Book of Revelation speaks of a power 07:31 of tremendous religious and political significance 07:33 that will rise up in Earth's last days. 07:36 Find out who it is by receiving this free offer, 07:39 “The Mystery Beast of Revelation.” 07:42 Call us on 800-253-3000, 07:45 or visit us online at itiswritten.com. 07:49 Or you can write to the address on your screen. 07:51 I'd like you to receive our free offer, 07:54 “The Mystery Beast of Revelation.” 07:55 ♪[Music]♪ 07:56 Thank you for remembering that It Is Written exists 07:59 due to the gracious support of people like you. 08:02 It's your support that makes it possible for It Is Written 08:05 to share Jesus and the great truths of the Bible 08:08 with the world. 08:09 You can send your tax-deductible gift 08:11 to the address on your screen 08:13 or you can support It Is Written through our website 08:16 itiswritten.com. 08:18 Thanks for your generous support. 08:20 Our number is 800-253-3000 08:23 and our web address is itiswritten.com. 08:27 >>John: This is It Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw. 08:31 Thanks for joining me in Rome. 08:33 ♪[Music]♪ 08:35 3 million people call this city home. 08:39 It's one of the most visited cities in the world. 08:43 And has some of the planet's most 08:45 recognizable tourist attractions. 08:49 20 million people visit Rome every year. 08:53 4 million alone visit the Colosseum. 08:56 That's 11,000 a day. 08:58 [Vehicle sounds] 09:01 Legend has is that Rome was founded in 753 B.C. 09:05 Which means people have been living here 09:07 almost 3 thousand years; most likely a lot longer. 09:12 Rome was home to the emperors, 09:14 Constantine, 09:15 and Trajan, 09:16 and Nero, 09:17 and others. 09:18 The Olyimpc games were held here in 1960, 09:21 Rome was bombed during Word War II, 09:24 history oozes from the pores of the eternal city. 09:33 The Roman empire which ruled for around 600 years 09:37 was governed from Rome. 09:39 As well as being the capital of Italy today, 09:42 Rome was the capital of the Roman empire, 09:44 and for half a millenium was the largest city in the world. 09:48 The Roman empire stretched all the way from Hadrian's wall 09:52 in the north of England, 09:53 across Europe and north Africa to the Persian Gulf. 09:57 But visit Rome and there's no escaping an obvious fact, 10:01 the city is dominated by a certain entity which happens 10:04 to be the largest Christian denomination in the world. 10:08 St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican city 10:11 is one of the largest church buildings in the world. 10:14 It's not a cathedral, 10:16 the cathedral of the pope of Rome, 10:17 who also happens to be the Bishop of Rome 10:20 is the archbasilica of St. John Lateran; 10:23 which is about 3 miles from here. 10:25 And the faithful come here from all over the world 10:28 to visit shrines and cathedrals and Holy sites 10:31 that are important to their faith. 10:38 Rome claims that it is the one true church founded by Jesus, 10:43 and that the pope is St. Peter's successor. 10:48 But while the church of Rome has occupied the place 10:50 of greatest influence of any church in the world 10:53 for well over a thousand years, 10:56 there was a time when its influence and supremacy 10:59 was jeopardized. 11:06 When the Protestant Reformation challenged 11:08 the authority of the established church 500 years ago, 11:11 it took on what had become the most powerful institution 11:14 in western civilization. 11:18 So how did the church become so powerful? 11:22 Well when the Roman empire collapsed 11:23 in the 5th century A.D. 11:25 an enormous power vacuum was created in Europe. 11:29 By that time, Christianity had been established 11:31 as the state religion of the Roman empire. 11:35 That had been so for more than 150 years. 11:38 There was only one power that could provide 11:41 any measure of stability, 11:44 one historian put it this way. 11:47 “With the breakup of the Roman bureaucracy the structure of 11:50 daily life was threatened with disintegration. 11:53 The only trace left of the Roman organism 11:56 was the Catholic Church, 11:58 and the only men with administrative experience 12:02 were the bishops.” 12:03 Another historian wrote: 12:05 “The reins and skills of government were 12:08 handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; 12:12 the lost power of the broken sword was rewon 12:16 by the magic of the consoling word; 12:19 the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries 12:22 of the Church moving in all directions 12:25 along the Roman roads, 12:27 and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, 12:30 again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome.” 12:41 The transition from ancient to medieval Christianity 12:44 began in earnest with the conversion 12:47 of the emperor Constantine. 12:49 Which was almost certainly only a nominal conversion. 12:52 Constantine's arch, built more than 1700 years ago, 12:56 very near the Colliseum, 12:58 commemorates the victory that brought Constantine to power 13:01 in 312 A.D. 13:06 Constantine claimed that he'd received a vision from God 13:10 assuring him that he would triumph 13:11 which led him to embrace Christianity, 13:14 which until that time had been a persecuted sect. 13:17 Christianity became the means through which Constantine 13:20 brought peace and unity to the empire. 13:24 But that peace and unity came at a high price. 13:29 As the church found acceptance with kings and emporers, 13:32 Christianity itself underwent a metamorphisis. 13:36 It began to resemble less and less the early Christan church, 13:40 and was influenced more and more, by Paganism. 13:44 Keep in mind that the Roman emporers including Constantine, 13:48 had been Pagans. 13:49 As you might imagine, it would've been difficult at best 13:54 for Constantine's new found faith not to have been 13:57 influenced by his Pagan background. 14:00 Turned out to be impossible. 14:02 Centuries before Jesus had said of the Pharisees: 14:06 “In vain they worship Me, 14:08 teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.” 14:11 Matthew 15:9. 14:12 Throughout western Christianity, 14:14 Paganism and the faith of Jesus along with church and state, 14:18 were blended together. 14:20 The Roman empire was a Pagan empire, 14:23 when it embraced Christianity 14:25 it didn't rid itself of Pagan influences. 14:29 Instead, it embraced them and absorbed them. 14:34 As a result, the church lost the power of the Gospel. 14:39 The story is told that Pope Julius the second 14:41 was once speaking with the scholar Erasmus here in Rome. 14:45 He referred to the church's great wealth 14:47 and then referenced Peter's statement in Acts chapter 3: 14:51 “Silver and gold have I none.” 14:53 The pope turned to the scholar and he said, 14:56 “well we cannot say that now, can we?” 14:58 And the scholar replied by saying. 15:00 “no we cannot. 15:01 And neither can we say, rise up and walk.” 15:05 Back with more in just a moment. 15:07 [Music] 15:13 >>John: I'm John Bradshaw from It Is Written, 15:16 inviting you to join me for 500, 15:19 nine programs produced by it Is Written 15:21 taking you deep into the Reformation. 15:25 This is the 500th anniversary of the beginning 15:28 of the Reformation, 15:29 when Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses 15:31 to the door of the Castle church in Wittenberg, Germany. 15:34 We'll take you to Wittenberg, 15:36 and to Belgium, 15:37 to England, 15:37 to Ireland, 15:39 to Rome, 15:40 to the Vatican City, 15:41 and introduce you to the people who created the Reformation, 15:44 who pushed the Reformation forward. 15:46 We'll take you to sites all throughout Europe 15:48 where the reformers lived and, in some cases, died. 15:51 We'll bring you back to the United States 15:52 and take you to a little farm in upstate New York, 15:55 and show you how God spread the Reformation here. 15:58 Don't miss 500. 16:00 You can own the 500 series on DVD. 16:04 Call us on 888-664-5573, 16:08 or visit us online at itiswritten.shop. 16:14 >>John: Thanks for joining me on It Is Written. 16:17 The New Testament church had very little wealth 16:20 and absolutely no political power. 16:23 But it did have what the apostle Paul described as 16:26 “the power of God to salvation.” 16:29 And the book of Acts says that that power 16:31 “turned the world upside down.” 16:34 But when the church compromised with the world 16:36 in order to receive favor and protection, 16:39 that primitive power of the Gospel was lost. 16:43 ♪[Music]♪ 16:49 But civil and ecclesiastical power soon fell into the hands 16:53 of the church as Europe searched for stability. 16:57 The Emperor Justinian, 16:58 who had ruled what was once the eastern half of the Roman Empire 17:01 became the champion for Roman Christianity. 17:05 The Emperor became the defender of the church, 17:08 and set about to destroy by military means 17:11 the theological enemies of the church. 17:14 Tribes such as the Heruli, 17:16 the Ostrogoths and the Vandals were subdued and conquered. 17:21 One historian reflected upon these conquests. 17:25 “The Church, with the shadow of the ancient authority behind it, 17:29 was the only symbol left of imperial Rome, 17:32 and its bishop, 17:33 the Pope, 17:34 was the city's only recourse for leadership and protection, 17:38 The Roman Empire in Europe would be replaced 17:40 by the spiritual empire, 17:42 which came to be temporal as well, 17:45 whose reigning seigneur was the bishop of Rome.” 17:51 There were some colorful characters associated with 17:53 the papacy in the Middle Ages. 17:56 Pope Gregory the Seventh, who reigned in the 11th century, 18:00 forced the German Emperor Henry IV 18:03 to wait outside in the snow for three days 18:07 before agreeing to see him and reconcile him to the church. 18:12 Now, you might not expect things to be done that way today, 18:14 but in the medieval church, that's how things were done. 18:17 ♪[Music]♪ 18:22 Pope Sixtus the Fourth, 18:24 famous for building the Sistine Chapel in Rome, 18:26 which was named for him, reigned in the 15th century. 18:32 He was also deeply involved in the politics 18:34 of the Italian States, 18:37 and in 1476 he was involved in a conspiracy 18:40 to assassinate an Italian statesman and his brother, 18:44 whose family at the time were rulers in the city of Florence. 18:48 Other popes such as Alexander the Sixth and Julius the Second 18:52 kept mistresses and fathered illegitimate sons, 18:55 and even maneuvered these illegitimate sons 18:58 into positions of influence. 19:00 [Crowd noises] 19:13 Of course they weren't all bad, 19:15 and you can't judge an entire organization 19:17 by a few rotten eggs. 19:19 But it was a system that dictated to countries, 19:22 manipulated states, 19:24 and believed that the line separating church and state 19:27 should simply disappear. 19:29 And it helps us to understand why the Reformation 19:32 should take place at all. 19:34 The system was simply broken. 19:37 In time, the papacy got to the place 19:39 where tradition had authority over Scripture. 19:42 Pope Innocent III, who ruled between 1198 and 1216, 19:46 and was the most powerful of all of the medieval popes, 19:49 had this to say about his spiritual role: 19:53 "The successor of Peter is the Vicar of Christ; 19:56 he has been established as a mediator between God and man, 20:00 below God but beyond man, 20:03 less than God but more than man, 20:06 who shall judge all and be judged by no one." 20:10 And the church had tools at its disposal 20:13 to strike fear into the heart of people, 20:15 of people who were largely ignorant and, 20:18 when it came to the scriptures, completely illiterate. 20:22 The sentence of interdict, 20:23 a sort of censure the church placed upon dissenters, 20:26 meant that sins couldn't be forgiven, 20:29 the sacraments couldn't be dispensed, 20:31 prayers for the dead couldn't be heard. 20:33 Essentially, heaven was cut off for people 20:36 who were living in the affected area. 20:38 And when you consider that the church is the doorway to heaven, 20:41 well, when the church goes ahead and shuts that door, 20:45 you can imagine. 20:47 During the reign of Innocent III, 20:48 the nation of France was placed under interdict 20:51 as the pope tried to persuade the king 20:54 to take back his estranged wife. 20:57 During the 1400s, the city of Prague, 20:59 in what was then Bohemia and is now the Czech Republic, 21:02 suffered a similar fate during the ministry of John Huss. 21:06 [Sound of water] 21:12 And it got much worse than interdict. 21:15 Anyone living in the world dominated by the church 21:18 in the Middle Ages had to deal with some grim realities. 21:22 Under the influence of Saint Augustine, 21:25 the church accepted the theory that humanity's willpower 21:28 was so depraved that the use of force against heretics 21:33 and sinners was sometimes necessary. 21:36 As a result, the medieval church resorted to some of the most 21:40 brutal tactics ever seen in history as a means of 21:43 controlling the consciences of God's people. 21:46 Christians during these centuries 21:47 were burned at the stake, 21:49 tortured on the rack, 21:51 and a whole lot more, all in the name of God. 21:55 ♪[Music]♪ 22:03 One historian wrote, 22:04 “Compared with the persecution of heresy in Europe 22:07 from 1227 to 1492, 22:10 the persecution of Christians by Romans 22:12 in the first three centuries after Christ 22:15 was a mild and humane procedure. 22:19 Making every allowance required of an historian 22:22 and permitted to a Christian, we must rank the Inquisition, 22:26 along with the wars and persecutions of our time, 22:29 as among the darkest blots on the record of mankind, 22:33 revealing a ferocity unknown in any beast.” 22:37 ♪[Music]♪ 22:38 So you can understand why Wycliffe spoke out in England, 22:41 and why John Huss protested in what we know today to be 22:44 the Czech Republic, 22:46 why Calvin rose up in Geneva 22:48 and Knox in Scotland 22:49 and Zwingli in Zurich. 22:51 The church was broken, abusing its power, 22:55 choking off the Scriptures from the people, 22:57 and teaching falsehood in the place of truth. 23:03 Of course, church leaders today don't speak in quite the same 23:05 tone as Pope Innocent III did all those years ago. 23:09 But Rome still takes a hard line on how its teachings 23:12 are to be evaluated, 23:14 maintaining it holds a unique place among Christian faiths. 23:18 In 1997, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, 23:21 who went on to become Pope Benedict XVI, 23:24 said that the use of Scripture to evaluate Church teaching 23:27 “was one of the most dangerous currents 23:30 to flow out of the Vatican II Council.” 23:34 So what do you do when you're a church leader 23:37 and you discover that there are inconsistencies between 23:39 what the Bible teaches and what you hold to 23:42 be true as an organization? 23:44 Problem, or not? 23:46 We'll find out in just a moment. 23:49 ♪[Music]♪ 23:57 >>Announcer: In Matthew 4:4, the Word of God says, 24:00 "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, 24:03 but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'" 24:07 “Every Word” 24:08 is a one-minute, Bible-based daily devotional 24:10 presented by Pastor John Bradshaw, 24:12 and designed especially for busy people like you. 24:15 Look for Every Word on selected networks, 24:17 or watch it online every day on our website, 24:20 ItIsWritten.com. 24:22 Receive a daily spiritual boost. 24:24 Watch “Every Word.” 24:25 You'll be glad you did. 24:27 Here's a sample. 24:31 ♪[Theme music]♪ 24:36 >>John: Five hundred years after the Protestant Reformation 24:38 began on October 31, 1517, 24:42 we might be tempted to wonder what Luther and Knox 24:44 and Zwingli and Calvin 24:45 and Farel and Beza and the Huguenots 24:46 and the Anabaptists and so many others achieved. 24:50 Today it would seem that the protest is over. 24:52 Even though the most influential church in the world 24:55 offers indulgences, 24:56 hears confessions, 24:57 teaches justification by faith and works, 25:00 considers Mary the queen of Heaven, 25:02 where're the Protestants today? 25:04 Protestants are being welcomed back into the church of Rome, 25:06 and many see this as positive. 25:08 It's been said it's more important 25:10 to be divided by truth than it is to be united by error. 25:14 Paul said in II Timothy 4, verse 2, 25:17 “Preach the word; be instant in season, 25:19 out of season; reprove, rebuke, 25:21 exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.” 25:23 The Word. 25:24 Anything less will never do. 25:27 I'm John Bradshaw for It Is Written. 25:28 Let's live today by every Word. 25:30 ♪[Music]♪ 25:34 >>John: By the time of the Reformation, 25:35 the church of Rome had become by far 25:38 not only the most powerful church on the planet, 25:41 but also the most powerful political entity. 25:44 And that happened as Rome filled a vacuum left 25:47 by the failed Roman Empire. 25:49 It was basically thrust into that role. 25:51 That could have been a wonderful opportunity 25:53 for church leaders to elevate the gospel and the message 25:56 of Christ's righteousness and grace and mercy. 26:02 But traditions started coming into the church 26:04 a lot like a rising tide creeping up a beach. 26:07 One of the unique teachings that the Reformers were up against 26:10 was that of the Magisterium, 26:12 the “teaching office” of the church, 26:14 the church's ability to decide what's true and what is not. 26:19 It's said that Jesus Christ is the source 26:22 of all of the church's teachings, 26:24 but that those teachings rest upon Scripture AND 26:28 “sacred tradition.” 26:30 In other words, 26:31 our traditions provide us with a source of unerring truth, 26:34 and we know that to be true because we say it is true. 26:39 And we can say it's true because God has given us 26:42 the authority to do that. 26:43 And we know He's given us that authority because we say so. 26:49 ♪[Music]♪ 26:58 The teachings of the Magisterium are said to be 27:00 “the prime, God-given means of finding the truth.” 27:04 But appealing to the Bible as your authority 27:08 only gets you someplace if people accept 27:11 that the Bible is authoritative. 27:13 Now, do the teachings of the church 27:15 ever contradict the teachings of the Bible? 27:17 Yes, at times they do. 27:19 But that's okay, because the church says it's okay. 27:25 Even Pope John Paul II admitted 27:26 that he was contradicting the teachings of Jesus. 27:31 "Have no fear when people call me the Vicar of Christ, 27:34 when they say to me 'Holy Father' 27:37 or 'Your Holiness,' 27:38 or use terms similar to these, 27:40 which seem even inimical to the gospel. 27:44 Christ Himself declared, 27:46 'Call no one on earth your father; 27:48 you have but one father in heaven. 27:50 Do not be called Master; 27:52 you have but one Master, the Messiah' (Matthew 23:9-10). 27:57 These expressions, nevertheless, 27:59 have evolved out of a long tradition, 28:02 becoming part of common usage. 28:04 One must not be afraid of these words either.” 28:08 Modern popes have also made it clear that people must confess 28:12 their sins to a priest to receive God's forgiveness. 28:18 “Rebuffing a belief widely shared by Protestants 28:21 and a growing number of Roman Catholics, 28:23 Pope John Paul II on Tuesday dismissed the 28:27 'widespread idea that one can obtain forgiveness 28:30 directly from God,' 28:32 and exhorted Catholics to confess more often 28:34 to their priests.” 28:37 The Apostle John wrote, 28:38 “If we confess our sins, 28:40 He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins 28:44 and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 28:49 And the Reformers knew that, 28:52 and were determined that people could find forgiveness in Christ 28:55 rather than through a church and its sacraments. 28:59 One of the practices that spurred Martin Luther 29:01 to write his 95 theses was the selling of indulgences. 29:06 But even though the selling of indulgences 29:08 virtually kick-started the Reformation, 29:10 things haven't changed. 29:12 "Pope John Paul II announced yesterday 29:14 that throughout the millennium celebration, 29:17 penitents who do a charitable deed or give up cigarettes 29:20 or alcohol for a day can earn an 'indulgence' 29:24 that will eliminate time in purgatory." 29:27 This was reported in the New York Times: 29:30 “In recent months dioceses around the world 29:33 have been offering Catholics a spiritual benefit 29:35 that fell out of favor decades ago, the indulgence, 29:40 a sort of amnesty from punishment in the afterlife, 29:43 and reminding them of the church's clout 29:45 in mitigating the wages of sin. 29:48 “The fact that many Catholics under 50 have never sought one, 29:51 and never heard of indulgences 29:53 except in high school European history 29:55 (Martin Luther denounced the selling of them in 1517 29:59 while igniting the Protestant Reformation), 30:02 simply makes their reintroduction more urgent 30:05 among church leaders bent on restoring fading traditions 30:09 of penance in what they see as a self-satisfied world.” 30:15 So the issues that were raised by the Protestant Reformers 30:19 still exist today, 30:21 emphasized by a headline that appeared on the front page 30:23 of the Los Angeles Times back in the year 2000: 30:27 "Vatican Declares Catholicism Sole Path to Salvation." 30:33 The Secretary of the World Council of Churches 30:35 at the time said this in response: 30:38 “It's realistic to acknowledge that this is the official 30:40 Catholic position and we cannot simply wish it away.” 30:45 Men like John Huss and his colleague Jerome in Bohemia, 30:48 Louis de Berquin in France, 30:50 William Tyndale of England, 30:52 Ridley, 30:53 Latimer and Cranmer in England, 30:55 Patrick Hamilton and George Wishart in Scotland, 30:57 and millions of others during those dark, 30:59 blood-stained centuries, gave their lives, 31:02 in the words of the apostle John, 31:04 “for the Word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ” 31:08 (Revelation. 1:2). 31:11 There's a remarkable story told about a Dutch Anabaptist 31:13 named Dirk Willems, 31:16 who was condemned to die by the church 31:18 for refusing to adhere to the church's teachings, 31:20 specifically on infant baptism. 31:23 But Willems managed to escape from where he was being held, 31:27 and he crept across the frozen ice covering a moat. 31:31 A prison guard noticed what was going on and pursued Willems, 31:34 but he fell through that thin ice into the frigid waters. 31:38 He cried help for help. 31:40 There was nobody to help him 31:41 except for the escaping Dirk Willems, 31:44 who did not want to see the man perish. 31:47 He went back and rescued the man, 31:49 but he paid a high price for his bravery. 31:54 He was recaptured, 31:55 put in prison again, 31:57 and was burned at the stake by the church. 32:01 See, these great men and women of faith 32:03 believed the words of Jesus found in Revelation 2, verse 10, 32:06 where Jesus said, 32:07 “Be faithful unto death, 32:10 and I will give you the crown of life.” 32:15 This was the world into which 32:17 the Protestant Reformers were born. 32:21 They rose up to oppose something God 32:23 had never intended would be created: 32:25 a system of salvation based on works and not grace, 32:30 where the only freedom believers had was that 32:33 given them by the church. 32:34 A powerful system that, 32:37 believing it was doing the work of God, 32:39 was prepared to use force to get its way. 32:45 But the dark clouds that held back the light of truth, 32:48 the unholy alliance of church and state, 32:53 couldn't endure forever. 32:55 The corruption and cruelty of the Renaissance church 32:58 was like the hour before the dawn. 33:02 The morning sun would soon drive away the darkness. 33:07 Grace and truth would break forth. 33:10 ♪[Music]♪ 33:14 In Old Testament times, 33:15 God's people suffered for many years 33:17 under the heavy hand of Egyptian slavery. 33:21 But then there was a miraculous breakthrough, 33:23 and God delivered His people, 33:24 opening up the Red Sea 33:27 and guiding them to the Promised Land. 33:30 Well, there would be a miraculous breakthrough again. 33:33 The light of God's Word was going to shine. 33:35 God's plans would not be frustrated. 33:39 A new day would dawn for believers everywhere. 33:42 God's work was not done. 33:44 Great days were ahead. 33:45 ♪[Music]♪ 33:53 >>John: Who is the mystery beast of Revelation? 33:55 The Book of Revelation speaks of a power of tremendous 33:58 religious and political significance that will rise up 34:01 in Earth's last days. 34:03 Find out who it is by receiving this free offer, 34:06 “The Mystery Beast of Revelation.” 34:08 Call us on 800-253-3000, 34:11 or visit us online at itiswritten.com. 34:15 Or you can write to the address on your screen. 34:18 I'd like you to receive our free offer, 34:20 “The Mystery Beast of Revelation.” 34:23 >>John: Thank you for remembering that It Is Written 34:25 exists due to the gracious support of people like you. 34:29 It's your support that makes it possible for It Is Written 34:31 to share Jesus and the great truths of the Bible 34:34 with the world. 34:36 You can send your tax-deductible gift 34:38 to the address on your screen, 34:39 or you can support It Is Written through our website, 34:42 itiswritten.com. 34:45 Thanks for your generous support. 34:46 Our number is 800-253-3000, 34:49 and our web address is 34:50 itiswritten.com. 34:53 >>John: Welcome back to 500, brought to you by It Is Written. 34:56 I'm John Bradshaw. 34:58 And my guest for “Rome and the Reformation” 35:01 is a professor of Near-Eastern and Archaeological Studies at 35:04 Southern Adventist University, Dr. Michael Hasel. 35:06 Dr. Hasel, thanks for joining me. 35:08 >>Dr. Hasel: It's great to be with you. 35:09 >>John: So Rome and the Reformation. 35:10 Without the Roman Catholic Church, of course, 35:12 there'd be no object to reform or of reform. 35:16 What was the Roman Catholic Church like 35:19 in Martin Luther's day? 35:20 How would you describe it? 35:22 >>Dr. Hasel: It was powerful. 35:23 It, uh, was not only powerful religiously, 35:27 but temporally in terms of its power over Europe and over the, 35:32 the, political sphere in that part of the world. 35:35 So it, it, put in place kings, it took kings down. 35:40 Um, it was not only a church that encompassed 35:44 all of Europe and other parts of the world, 35:47 but in that time it was an entity that really shaped 35:52 the destiny and the future of Europe in so many ways. 35:55 >>John: How did the church impact, 35:56 let's say, the daily lives of people. 35:58 If you were a citizen of, well, 36:00 in Rome or someplace within the boundaries of the Roman Empire, 36:05 uh, in a nuts-and-bolts sort of a way, 36:10 how was the average person really impacted by, by Rome? 36:14 >>Dr. Hasel: Well, the individual person 36:18 would have been very affected because salvation 36:20 was through the church. 36:22 And so, depending on where you were in society, 36:26 at all levels of society, 36:28 um, the church had a huge role to play, 36:31 not only in the political sphere, 36:33 but also in the personal sphere. 36:35 If a person, um, wanted to be buried, for example, 36:39 after death, where would they be buried? 36:41 They would be buried in the, in the church cemetery. 36:43 If somehow that person was not able to be buried 36:46 in the church cemetery because of something he did or she did, 36:49 um, that was the same as not being able to, to attain heaven. 36:55 So this was a really serious situation 36:58 where the church not only, um, controlled politically, 37:02 but really controlled the destiny of individuals, 37:04 and, in a sense, 37:06 held that over individuals as well, 37:08 could hold that power over individuals as well. 37:10 And did, very effectively, to kings and to others who, 37:14 who wanted to maybe go in a different direction. 37:16 >>John: For a Christian today, 37:17 that, it seems to me that's hard to imagine, 37:20 particularly for a Protestant. 37:22 I think for a non-Christian, 37:23 perhaps that idea is probably repulsive. 37:25 It's hard to imagine for most people today 37:29 a church being that powerful: 37:30 to set up kings and to take them down, 37:33 and to essentially, 37:35 um, possess the keys to heaven for you and me. 37:38 How did the Roman church get to that point? 37:42 >>Dr. Hasel: Um, a long process, of course. 37:45 The church began, of course, within the first century, 37:49 the second century, the third century, 37:50 with various, uh cities and eventually there were bishops 37:54 that were placed in charge of these cities, 37:56 leaders that would lead those cities. 37:58 Uh, when Constantine came to power in the fourth century, 38:01 he moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Constantinople, 38:05 to what is today Istanbul, the eastern church. 38:08 So you have a division, 38:09 then, eventually, between the eastern church 38:10 and the western church. 38:12 And that movement of power to the east, 38:15 uh, caused the western church, or Rome, 38:18 to become more powerful. 38:20 The bishop of Rome there became more and more powerful. 38:24 And with time, uh, that, that continued 38:28 to have an influence in Europe, 38:30 uh, in the succeeding centuries, because, of course, 38:33 Constantinople eventually fell. 38:35 Byzantium fell, uh, to the Turks, 38:38 and to the Ottoman Empire and others that came along. 38:41 And so you had this vacuum 38:43 and the papacy generally rose to power. 38:47 Uh, and that brought together in time both a, 38:51 a temporal power that is a worldly power, 38:56 a political power, and a religious power 38:58 that began to work in unison together. 39:01 >>John: For any government to have power, though, 39:03 that power has to be ceded to them or granted them 39:05 by the people. 39:06 >>Dr. Hasel: Sure. 39:07 >>John: No one's in power without vote. 39:09 And it's not that people voted back then, but, 39:12 but you have power if you have influence. 39:16 So what went on in the minds of the people, 39:19 that people said, yes, 39:21 Rome does have the keys to heaven. 39:23 Yes, my salvation does depend on a church. 39:28 Yes, they can lock me out of the church cemetery 39:32 and therefore out of heaven. 39:33 How do you think that process evolved 39:36 in the thinking of people, that masses said, 39:40 we agree, we go along with this, we believe that this is so? 39:46 >>Dr. Hasel: I think it was a combination of 39:48 the growth of the church, 39:50 the power of the church, 39:51 but also the enforcing of that power in, in many ways. 39:55 Um, when you have temporal and religious power combined, 39:58 today in this country we have a separation of church and state, 40:00 but in that time that was not the case, 40:03 you have also the ability for the church to enforce itself 40:06 and to enforce its influence and power, even militarily. 40:10 And so, uh, it was, um, it was very difficult 40:14 for kings to move off in different directions, 40:17 or people to move off in different directions, 40:18 when you have that kind of, of power 40:23 all concentrated into one entity, 40:26 that combined both the religious and the political. 40:28 >>John: And Rome did enforce its dogmas, didn't it? 40:30 >>Dr. Hasel: Oh, it did. Militarily. 40:32 I mean, we have, we have, of course, 40:33 the famous Crusades that still taint Christianity today, 40:36 when people think about the bloodbath that took place 40:39 in the Middle East and, 40:40 and the situations that took place there. 40:42 So we have this, this entire system, 40:46 and this system included, um, 40:49 sending armies to other parts of the world, 40:52 to conquer those parts of the world 40:53 in the name of Christendom, 40:55 and in the name of the power of God. 40:57 And this, this began to, to, of course, 41:01 shape the thinking of people as well, 41:04 who were involved in those, uh, Crusades, 41:06 but also how that affected them in their personal lives as well. 41:11 >>John: So what was the church like 41:12 that Martin Luther was a part of? 41:15 I mean, what did it look like from where, 41:17 where he found himself? 41:18 What was going on? 41:19 >>Dr. Hasel: Well, you're, you're in a feudal system, 41:23 and so you have in the Middle Ages, 41:25 you have a system where you have, 41:26 uh, the church, which is very powerful. 41:28 You have these expensive churches that are built, 41:30 these cathedrals that take a hundred years to build, 41:34 um, often on the backs of the people. 41:38 You have people that are taxed. 41:40 You have various ways in which those churches are built. 41:43 You have the indulgences, 41:44 and we'll talk about that a little bit later on, 41:46 that fund many of these projects. 41:49 And so you have this disparity in society in the feudal system. 41:53 You have the peasants, um, you have then various echelons. 41:58 You have the knights; 41:59 you have the feudal system all the way up to princes and kings. 42:03 Uh, you have emperors. 42:04 And then you have the church, which is behind the scenes, 42:07 also manipulating, controlling, and trying to, 42:10 uh, have its say in how these systems work, 42:13 and to influence its power, uh, through these systems as well. 42:18 So it's, it's a time of poverty; 42:21 it's a time of great wealth, on the other hand. 42:23 The disparity between wealth and poverty is great. 42:26 And I think it was something you, as a peasant, 42:30 you walk into one of these immense cathedrals, 42:32 as we still do today, and it was awe-inspiring, 42:35 and it gave the sense that God was, was present there. 42:38 >>John: So what do you think 42:39 was going through Martin Luther's mind? 42:41 He had the theses in one hand, 42:43 a hammer and a nail presumably in the other. 42:45 He's walking down the street 42:48 towards the door of the Castle church. 42:49 You can see it in your mind's eye right now. 42:53 And this young priest is coming up against the might 42:56 of the most powerful church the world has ever seen. 42:59 Did he really think, I'm going to change this church? 43:02 Or, what do you think he was pondering? 43:05 >>Dr. Hasel: I think he was probably thinking about 43:07 his own responsibilities as a professor and as a minister 43:12 of the gospel in that particular congregation. 43:15 And he saw what was happening with Tetzel 43:18 going around and selling these indulgences. 43:20 He saw people giving up precious funds that they had to live on, 43:25 in order to, to, to spring their relative out of purgatory, 43:30 something that he didn't believe in any longer 43:32 based on his study of scripture. 43:33 And so he wanted to warn them, 43:36 this is not, this is not biblical. 43:38 This is not, this is not something that is based 43:41 on a biblical teaching. 43:42 And so I think much of what was going through his mind was, 43:45 let, let me set the record straight here for the people 43:48 of this community. 43:49 I don't think he had an idea that it would have the impact 43:53 that it would have as that was published 43:55 and disseminated throughout Germany. 43:57 >>John: It speaks, I think, and this sounds unkind, 43:59 but if I can at least try to sound kind, 44:03 it speaks to the arrogance of the church. 44:05 The church that says we are so powerful 44:07 that if you give us money, 44:08 we have enough authority and influence 44:11 to get your soul out of purgatory, 44:13 or someone else's soul out of purgatory. 44:15 Incidentally, a place that doesn't even exist. 44:18 So Luther came up against a church that had, 44:21 that had teachings that spoke of the fact that the church 44:25 had wandered far from the Bible. 44:28 In just a moment, 44:29 we'll look at some more of the teachings of the church 44:31 in that day, 44:32 and the teachings of the Church of Rome today. 44:34 We'll be right back. 44:35 ♪[Music]♪ 44:42 >>John: I'm John Bradshaw from It Is Written, 44:44 inviting you to join me for 500, 44:48 nine programs produced by it Is Written 44:50 taking you deep into the Reformation. 44:53 This is the 500th anniversary 44:56 of the beginning of the Reformation, 44:57 when Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door 45:00 of the Castle church in Wittenberg, Germany. 45:03 We'll take you to Wittenberg, 45:04 and to Belgium, 45:05 to England, 45:06 to Ireland, 45:07 to Rome, 45:08 to the Vatican City, 45:09 and introduce you to the people who created the Reformation, 45:12 who pushed the Reformation forward. 45:14 We'll take you to sites all throughout Europe 45:16 where the reformers lived and, in some cases, died. 45:19 We'll bring you back to the United States 45:21 and take you to a little farm in upstate New York, 45:24 and show you how God spread the Reformation here. 45:27 Don't miss 500. 45:29 You can own the 500 series on DVD. 45:32 Call us on 888-664-5573, 45:37 or visit us online at itiswritten.shop. 45:42 >>John: Who is the mystery beast of Revelation? 45:45 The Book of Revelation speaks of a power of tremendous religious 45:48 and political significance that will rise up 45:50 in Earth's last days. 45:52 Find out who it is by receiving this free offer: 45:55 “The Mystery Beast of Revelation.” 45:58 Call us on 800-253-3000, 46:01 or visit us online at itiswritten.com. 46:05 Or you can write to the address on your screen. 46:08 I'd like you to receive our free offer, 46:10 “The Mystery Beast of Revelation.” 46:13 >>John: Welcome back to 500 and “Rome and the Reformation,” 46:17 brought to you by It Is Written. 46:18 I'm John Bradshaw. 46:19 My guest, Dr. Michael Hasel of Southern Adventist University. 46:23 We've been speaking about the Roman Catholic Church, 46:25 what it was like in Luther's day. 46:26 Moments ago, we were discussing this teaching of indulgences 46:30 that, among others, spurred Luther to begin the Reformation. 46:36 In addition to the teaching of indulgences, 46:39 what were some of the key or some of the critical teachings 46:41 of the Church of Rome that spurred the Reformation 46:44 500 years ago? 46:46 >>Dr. Hasel: There were several teachings, I think, 46:47 that had crept into Rome and had become tradition, 46:50 uh, in the church that was very different from the Bible. 46:54 Rome taught that the church would be the key to salvation, 46:59 that it held the keys to salvation, 47:01 rather than Jesus Christ, or faith in Jesus Christ, 47:04 alone that would have that key to salvation. 47:06 So this was a very, very different concept. 47:08 The very concept of the Bible and the origin of the Bible 47:12 was also something that, uh, Rome had a different view on. 47:18 Um, if you think about it, the Council of Trent that came 47:20 as part of the counter-Reformation 47:22 reaffirmed the authority of the church 47:25 to not only believe in the Bible, but to change the Bible. 47:29 Their position was that the church created the Bible. 47:31 The Protestant position was that the Bible created the church. 47:35 So you had some very different concepts 47:37 even about scripture and where scripture came from. 47:41 You also had, uh, the concept of purgatory. 47:44 Purgatory was something that came as a result 47:47 of the church's teaching. 47:48 It was not found really in scripture. 47:50 Um, one of the issues at the Council of Trent 47:52 to reaffirm purgatory was to accept the apocryphal books 47:56 as part of the Bible, 47:57 in order to support the teaching of purgatory 48:00 out of one of the Maccabee's writing that was not part of the 48:04 original canon and not accepted today by Protestants, either. 48:07 >>John: Now, what about the priesthood? 48:08 What was the church's view on, on that? 48:11 >>Dr. Hasel: Well, it believed that the priests, 48:14 the priests that served in the church, 48:16 were the people who controlled, uh, the forgiveness of sins. 48:21 And so you had to come to confession to a priest 48:24 rather than directly go to, to Jesus, 48:27 who was our intercessor to the Father. 48:29 Um, when Luther saw that as he was reading 48:32 through Romans and Galatians, 48:34 he was quite, it was an aha moment for him. 48:38 It was a relief. 48:39 Because prior to that time he struggled 48:41 with the assurance of salvation, 48:43 and he struggled with being good enough, 48:45 and this whole concept that works and grace together 48:50 somehow were both important for salvation. 48:53 And so he, he really, um, tackled this issue head-on 48:58 in many of his writings. 49:00 And one of the things that he said again and again 49:03 was that the priesthood, 49:04 really, destroyed the biblical concept of the priesthood 49:07 of all believers, that we all have access through 49:10 our High Priest, Jesus Christ, to the forgiveness of sins, 49:13 simply by praying to Him directly. 49:15 >>John: Now, Luther is well known for his teaching 49:17 on justification by faith. 49:19 The church then didn't teach justification by faith, 49:22 and you just eluded to that. 49:24 But if you were to ask a Catholic scholar today, 49:29 that scholar would say, 49:30 indeed, the church does teach justification by faith. 49:34 And, it does. 49:38 So where's the problem with Rome's teaching 49:40 on justification by faith, 49:42 then, and presumably it is not changed now. 49:44 Rome will say, we teach justification by faith. 49:47 How does a Protestant answer that question? 49:49 >>Dr. Hasel: Well, I think Rome does teach 49:52 justification by faith. 49:54 But the question is, is it justification by faith alone? 49:57 >>John: There you go. 49:58 >>Dr. Hasel: And that's the question. 49:59 Because most of the time you have something added on, 50:03 and this is something that we find in Rome, 50:05 Rome's theology in general. 50:07 You have the Bible and tradition. 50:10 You have justification by faith and works. 50:14 And these elements, 50:16 we believe as Protestants in good works as well, 50:19 but we believe in a faith that works, 50:21 not a faith that is, uh, not works that, 50:26 that lead to faith and lead to salvation. 50:28 So it's by grace alone. 50:31 It's by faith alone. 50:33 It's by the Bible alone. 50:35 These were some of the pillars of the Protestant Reformation. 50:38 And some of the pillars that still are in contention today. 50:43 Even with the movement to try to bring reconciliation 50:47 between Protestantism and Catholicism, 50:49 and the documents that have been signed on justification by faith 50:53 there are still nuances of that 50:55 that are not properly understood or not properly resolved. 50:59 >>John: So other teachings of the church then, 51:01 that shaped the church, and gave rise to the Reformation, 51:05 what might some of those have been? 51:06 There's the role of Mary. 51:07 >>Dr. Hasel: The role of Mary, exactly. 51:08 So Mary, instead of praying directly, again, to Jesus, 51:13 through Jesus Christ to the Father, 51:16 a model, by the way that Jesus gave His disciples, 51:18 the Lord's Prayer, you have now prayers to Mary. 51:23 And it's very interesting, and you grew up as a Catholic. 51:26 I've visited many Catholic churches. 51:28 It's interesting; there's one church that I like to visit in, 51:31 in Israel when I'm there. 51:32 It's a church that is, uh, right at the Sea of Galilee, 51:36 and they have candles that are being lit. 51:39 And on one side you have candles that are being lit to Jesus, 51:41 and on the other side you have candles being lit to Mary. 51:43 It's interesting that nobody hardly goes to Jesus at all. 51:47 There are hardly any candles there. 51:49 Most of the people go to Mary, because she's the mother of God. 51:52 She's the soothing, loving, compassionate mother of God. 51:57 And so rather than following the compassionate Jesus, 52:00 uh, we have this, this deity, in a sense, this person. 52:06 And it's not only Mary; 52:07 it's the saints that are being prayed to. 52:10 It is, it is all of these things that have been put in place 52:13 which really baptized Pagan ideas of multiple gods 52:17 and brought those into the church. 52:20 >>John: So Paganism came into the church and affected 52:22 Catholicism then, and today. 52:25 I don't think that's a criticism; 52:26 that's just a fact, is it not? 52:27 >>Dr. Hasel: It's a fact. 52:27 It's a fact. 52:28 My wife is from Brazil, and we travel to Brazil, 52:30 and there in the state of Minas Gerais 52:32 we have beautiful Catholic, 52:34 baroque Catholic churches that were built in a time 52:37 in the 1700s when, um, much of the gold 52:40 that filled the churches and cathedrals in Europe 52:44 came from Brazil. 52:45 And you see these baroque churches, 52:47 and there's one for the slaves, 52:48 and there's one for the, uh, the elite of the town. 52:52 And you look in the slave church, 52:54 you have all of these carved images of African religion. 52:58 We would even say Pagan religion that comes from Africa. 53:03 Um, and, you know, asking the person that is there, 53:06 where does this all come from, they said, oh, 53:07 this is simply adapted and adopted by the Catholic church 53:11 from the religious practices of the Africans 53:15 who came here as slaves and incorporated into church, 53:18 uh, into the church architecture, 53:20 into the church art, and so forth. 53:22 And into the church beliefs as well. 53:24 And you find this, 53:25 this melding and this syncretism with world religions 53:30 also in the church in history, as well as in more modern times. 53:34 >>John: So talk to me for a moment about the church today. 53:38 Five hundred years ago the church was in such dire 53:41 condition that Luther just had to, 53:45 and he nailed those protests to the wall, 53:48 to the door, I beg your pardon, 53:50 and the Reformation began. 53:51 And the church came, really, under some sort of attack, 53:54 and you understand how I mean that. 53:57 Back up 500 years, 54:00 and there's little about the church that has changed. 54:05 So what gave rise to the Reformation in 1517 54:10 exists today. 54:12 How does Rome affect the world today? 54:15 >>Dr. Hasel: I think there's been a shift in how Rome 54:18 has approached the issue of the Reformation, 54:21 and the Reformers, and the Reformation churches. 54:24 Um, for many years there was an inquisition, 54:27 there was a counter-Reformation, 54:30 there was theological arguments that were waged back and forth. 54:34 There were wars that were fought, 54:35 the 30-years war that decimated Europe. 54:38 There was a lot of conflict! 54:41 But since Vatican II there's been a shift, 54:44 and that shift has been very conciliatory. 54:47 We are not going now, 54:48 we're now going to open ourselves to all religions. 54:50 We're going to open ourselves to dialogue. 54:53 We're going to open ourselves to understand one another. 54:56 And there's been a trend in the last several years of the 54:59 pope asking forgiveness for not only various church entities, 55:04 Protestant church entities, 55:06 but also even for the Crusades 55:08 and to Muslim imams and various things. 55:13 So we have this, 55:14 this time now of what appears to be reconciliation. 55:17 And who wants to stand against that? 55:21 Protestantism has changed to such a degree over the years, 55:24 it's lost its fervor, 55:26 it's lost its, its righteous indignation 55:29 against some of these teachings. 55:30 And even within Protestantism, 55:32 you have a movement away from the Bible. 55:35 You have a very strong influence of secularism 55:37 and secular thinking, scientific thinking, 55:39 historical criticism that has undermined and undercut 55:43 true biblical teaching the way Luther 55:45 and the Reformers understood it. 55:46 And so today you have, 55:49 you have a change in Protestantism. 55:51 You have not much change in Catholicism 55:53 except in their approach. 55:55 Their teachings are the same, 55:57 and yet we're living in this ecumenical time 55:59 where people want to see change, 56:01 where people want to see the coming together. 56:03 And, and this is what is so dangerous. 56:06 >>John: Where do you think it's leading? 56:08 >>Dr. Hasel: I think it's leading to a resurgence 56:13 of Rome as the ultimate power again. 56:17 That deadly wound that Revelation 13 speaks about. 56:22 We are seeing it being healed before our eyes, I believe, 56:26 and all effort is being put in to that healing 56:30 and that bringing together where Rome, in a sense, 56:33 will become ascendant again. 56:34 It's very interesting how Rome 56:36 is approaching the churches as well. 56:38 It's approaching these churches as the mother church 56:40 welcome back its, well, its children that have gone astray. 56:46 And so, you know, it's very interesting that it still 56:50 plays the dominant power, 56:52 and it still plays the, the entity to which others 56:57 much come back to, 56:59 while giving the impression that it's being conciliatory. 57:03 I find that very interesting. 57:04 >>John: Is there still need for reformation? 57:06 >>Dr. Hasel: Absolutely. 57:07 There's need for reformation constantly 57:10 in the lives of each individual person, 57:12 but also, I think, corporately in our churches as well. 57:15 I think we have come a long ways from the Protestant Reformation, 57:19 from the fires that, that influenced people like Zwingli 57:23 and Calvin and Luther, um, Tyndale and Wesley as well. 57:28 I think this is a time where we need to think carefully 57:34 about the biblical teachings. 57:36 What does the Word really tell us today? 57:39 What did these Reformers die for, 57:42 for hundreds of years, as they were persecuted? 57:45 And what has really changed? 57:48 Has our attitude changed? 57:50 Has our perception changed? 57:51 Or are these issues still the same today, 57:53 and is it still time to stand up and to proclaim the Bible 57:57 as the Word of God? 57:58 >>John: Dr. Michael Hasel, thank you so much. 58:00 >>Dr. Hasel: Thank you. 58:01 >>John: Be sure to join me next time on 500. 58:04 Our program is “Here I Stand.” 58:06 We'll look at the life and ministry of Martin Luther, 58:09 who on October 31st, 1517, 58:14 strode down the street toward the door of the Castle church 58:17 in Wittenberg, Germany, 58:19 nailed his 95 theses to said door, 58:23 and the Protestant Reformation was born. 58:27 My guest will be Dr. Leslie Pollard, 58:29 the president of Oakwood University. 58:31 Be sure to join me then. 58:33 Let's pray together. 58:35 Our Father in Heaven, 58:37 we thank you that in your goodness 58:38 you have preserved your Word for us. 58:41 We thank you for Jesus, the Word made flesh. 58:44 We wish that He would live in our hearts, 58:46 and we pray you would make that so. 58:48 And we pray that our lives would be based on your Word. 58:53 We thank you that there were men and women of old 58:55 who dared to stand up for your Word. 58:57 They in many cases paid the ultimate price 59:00 so we could have delivered to us the freedom 59:04 that comes through knowing you personally through your Word. 59:10 So bless us, Lord, 59:11 I pray that any reform that must take place 59:13 in our own lives would happen, 59:15 so that we can be, by your grace, 59:17 everything that you wish we would be. 59:21 We thank you and ask your blessing, 59:22 and we pray together in Jesus' name, 59:24 Amen. 59:26 Thanks so much for joining me. 59:27 I look forward to seeing you again next time on 500. 59:30 Until then, remember: 59:31 "It Is Written. 59:33 Man shall not live by bread alone, 59:34 but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." 59:38 ♪[Theme music]♪ |
Revised 2017-10-20