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>> Welcome to
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It Is Written Canada.
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Thank you for joining us.
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Perhaps you voice the complaint,
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I just don't feel heard.
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We all crave the connection
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that comes from at least
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one person giving us
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a listening ear.
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This kind of deep listening,
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healthy listening, is a skill.
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>> How do we listen in a way
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that enhances connection
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with the people we love?
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What listening habits
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have we fallen into that are
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destroying that connection?
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The way we listen to those
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we love can profoundly determine
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the level of connection
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we enjoy with them.
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>> Today on
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It Is Written Canada,
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our special guest is
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Pastor Bill Spangler,
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who has led churches in
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the maritime Provinces,
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British Columbia and Alberta,
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retiring from ministry
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in 2020.
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He has a Bachelor's of Theology,
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a masters of Divinity degree,
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and has trained and is certified
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as a family mediator
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and life coach.
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>> Bill is married to
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Gwen Yosako, and they are
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parents to two daughters
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and enjoy two grandchildren.
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Bill is the author of the book,
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Lessons From the Wilderness,
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a catalog of life lessons
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that are useful to anyone
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seeking personal growth
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and skills for
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making relationships work.
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>> Pastor Bill Spangler,
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thank you for joining us again
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on It Is Written Canada.
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>> It's my privilege to be here
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again one more time.
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>> Pastor Bill, in the book
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that you wrote,
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Lessons From the Wilderness,
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there's a whole chapter about
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listening.
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Why is listening so important?
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Aren't we all good listeners?
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>> Interesting question, René,
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and I called that chapter,
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"Ears Are For More Than
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Holding Up Our Glasses."
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Listening is very crucial
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to good relationships.
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So we do learn life lessons
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as we go, life skills as we go.
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We grow up.
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We learn by the knocks of life
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and by interacting with kids
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in school and with
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our teenage peers and our
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parents and our siblings.
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We learn all kinds of things.
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And there is no place to go
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that I'm aware of
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where we get a degree in
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life skills.
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We can get a degree in
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all manner of careers and...
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...things to do.
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But I don't know where to get
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a certificate on life skills.
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And listening is probably one of
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the most crucial life skills
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that there is.
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I think that listening
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will determine whether we are
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really connected with the people
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that matter to us, or whether
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we're living in a relationship
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that is just kind of surface.
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It all depends on how safe
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we make it for others
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or how safe they make it for us.
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Some people we like to talk to
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and can talk to easily,
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and some people we would
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never share our hearts with.
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I have friends that no matter
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how many months it is between
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seeing them, we can just sort of
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pick up right where we were
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because we know that
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relationship is safe and
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strong and solid
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and other relationships,
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"How's the weather?" and,
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you know, and that kind of
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thing and we leave it at that
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because there is no depth there
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by choice or whatever reason.
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So our safety level
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is often dependent upon
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how we listen.
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So I learned these lessons
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when I was studying to be
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a life coach and it was
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new to me.
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And I was an adult and thinking
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that I knew how to listen.
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Boy, did I have lots to learn.
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So here's what I learned.
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There's a level one listening.
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So level one listening is
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not bad, it just doesn't
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offer depth
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in connection.
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It's the kind of listening
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that we do when we need details.
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So we need to know...
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...can you take the children
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to school on Thursday?
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Can you pick them up
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after school early on Thursday?
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Oh, okay.
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What time do I need to do?
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What time is the
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dental appointment?
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What do I need to pick up
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at the store?
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It's just the details
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that I need to know because
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I'm going to be responsible to
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follow through on those things.
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But often what happens,
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we get talking to somebody and
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we listen to them
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at level one.
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And so they will say something
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to us, and
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a level one responds
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in a way that is
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all about me.
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So Mike says something to me
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and my response is he's maybe
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starting to tell me a story.
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Maybe he's telling me a story
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about something that
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he's going through, or something
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that one of his family members
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are going through
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or there's something hard
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and I'll quickly deflect it,
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you know, or I'll have another,
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I'll have a response that
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I have a better story than that,
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you know.
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I just found out that my-
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he might say, "I've just
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found out that my mother
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was diagnosed with cancer."
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"Oh, well, what kind of
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cancer was it?"
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"Well, it's this kind of-"
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"Oh, it's okay.
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It'll be fine, because
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my uncle had that and
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he's fine today,
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so don't worry about it.
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It's fine."
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That's level one.
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I'm telling
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my perspective
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I'm making about me
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and my story, and it minimizes
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his story.
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Level one listening judges.
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You know, somebody
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makes a statement and says
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whatever, and I respond
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by saying, "Well, I don't think
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that's a good idea.
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I think that's crazy.
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I don't know why you would
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think that.
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How did you ever come up with
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an idea like that?"
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Well, it backs them up then
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and they don't want to
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say anymore because
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they share their ideas and
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dreams to be responded to,
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not to be shut down.
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So when we get to know people
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early in a relationship,
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like I got to know my wife
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skating around a skating rink.
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We skated for a long time
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that night, just chatting and
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getting to know each other and
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finding out about her siblings
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and my siblings and my parents
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and her parents and
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that kind of thing.
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There was nothing in-depth
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in that conversation.
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It was all level one, because
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that's how relationships start.
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But then if we want more,
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we have to do
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something different.
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Level one
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is really a kind of a
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selfish way to listen.
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I need the details.
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I need the story.
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I need to have you know
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where I'm at.
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And sometimes, like I said,
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it's necessary, but often
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it's very destructive to
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going to any depth in
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the relationship that
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we might want.
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>> So because I'm so intuitive,
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I'm guessing that because
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there's a level one,
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there's a level two.
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>> There is a level two, Mike.
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>> So what does level two
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look like, Bill?
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>> So level two listening
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goes to a different place.
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Level one you start talking
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and I make the conversation
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all about me.
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Level two, you start talking
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and I click in and I make the
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conversation all about you.
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What it is you're
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talking to me about.
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So I picture it this way.
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If I want to do good
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level two listening,
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when somebody starts to speak,
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I picture them as picking up
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the microphone
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and I let them talk as long as
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they have the microphone.
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The only thing I will ask
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or interject is
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just something for clarity
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to know more about what it is
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that you're talking about,
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what it is that you're
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experiencing.
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I make the
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level one conversation
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all about me,
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but at level two,
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I make it all about you
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and what's happening to you.
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So let's go back to this story.
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"My mother just got diagnosed
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and it doesn't look good."
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"Oh, man...
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...that must be tough.
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What's that like for you?
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What's happening with you?
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How is she doing?
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What are you learning
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through all of this?"
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Those kinds of questions that
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go to your heart and go to
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your experience and it has
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nothing to do with me
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or what I want to know.
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Even my curiosity.
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Level one listening would be
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the question that says,
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"Oh, what kind of cancer
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does she have?"
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That's not necessary
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for me to know.
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You told me that she's
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diagnosed, that's your story.
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If you want to tell me
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what it is,
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that's also your story.
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I don't get to ask the details
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in level two listening,
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I wanna ask about
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your experience.
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I wanna ask about your heart.
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I wanna ask about your emotions.
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I wanna ask about your struggle.
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I wanna ask about your learning
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and how this is impacting you.
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So if I go back to the story of
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me skating all evening
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with my wife...
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...I want that relationship
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to go deeper.
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So then at some point
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in some level,
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we started to talk about things
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that were involving our dreams
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or our goals or the things
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that matter to us,
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the things that are
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important to us,
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the things that make us happy.
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The- our walk with God.
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Things that are deeper than
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just the surface stuff.
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And here's what makes
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conversations really work.
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If you start opening up to me
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about something going on in your
00:10:44.27\00:10:46.71
experience, if I...
00:10:46.71\00:10:48.74
...push back on that right away,
00:10:50.78\00:10:52.38
the conversation will shut down
00:10:52.38\00:10:53.98
and you'll say,
00:10:53.98\00:10:55.22
"Well, I'm not doing that again.
00:10:55.22\00:10:56.52
I'm just gonna go to level one.
00:10:56.52\00:10:57.85
I'll stay at level one.
00:10:57.85\00:10:58.89
It's safe down there.
00:10:58.89\00:10:59.89
We can talk about
00:10:59.89\00:11:00.99
the weather there.
00:11:00.99\00:11:01.99
We can talk about
00:11:01.99\00:11:03.02
the news there.
00:11:03.02\00:11:04.03
We can talk about
00:11:04.03\00:11:05.29
the simple things there."
00:11:05.29\00:11:07.86
But if I wanna get into
00:11:07.86\00:11:08.83
a relationship,
00:11:08.83\00:11:11.03
there is a time that I have to
00:11:11.03\00:11:12.47
test the dreams, passions,
00:11:12.47\00:11:14.94
goals, vision.
00:11:14.94\00:11:16.40
And this is where we make it
00:11:16.40\00:11:18.67
safe for the people that
00:11:18.67\00:11:20.51
matter to us.
00:11:20.51\00:11:22.01
If we help them
00:11:22.01\00:11:23.14
explore that goal
00:11:23.14\00:11:24.98
and explore that vision,
00:11:24.98\00:11:26.51
explore that dream,
00:11:26.51\00:11:28.45
make it safe for them,
00:11:28.45\00:11:30.59
even if we don't agree...
00:11:30.59\00:11:32.95
...it can make
00:11:34.09\00:11:35.19
all the difference
00:11:35.19\00:11:36.22
in the world and how that
00:11:36.22\00:11:37.76
relationship builds.
00:11:37.76\00:11:39.79
When we feel heard...
00:11:39.79\00:11:41.36
...when we start to talk.
00:11:42.76\00:11:44.53
When we feel like it's safe,
00:11:44.53\00:11:47.04
we open up our hearts.
00:11:47.04\00:11:49.30
So...
00:11:49.30\00:11:50.24
...parents to children.
00:11:51.07\00:11:53.14
Children can say things that
00:11:53.14\00:11:55.48
in our experience,
00:11:55.48\00:11:57.38
we have already learned
00:11:57.38\00:11:58.45
that's not gonna to work.
00:11:58.45\00:12:00.75
We've already learned
00:12:00.75\00:12:01.82
that's not safe.
00:12:01.82\00:12:03.22
We've already learned
00:12:03.22\00:12:04.29
there's danger here.
00:12:04.29\00:12:06.45
But if we respond
00:12:06.45\00:12:07.52
to our children that way,
00:12:07.52\00:12:09.92
they may back away and never...
00:12:09.92\00:12:12.19
...trust us again with
00:12:13.70\00:12:14.86
some of their deeper stuff
00:12:14.86\00:12:16.56
or their questions.
00:12:16.56\00:12:18.03
Children can come to parents
00:12:18.03\00:12:20.04
and start saying, You know what?
00:12:20.04\00:12:22.04
I'm having questions about...
00:12:22.04\00:12:23.51
...this.
00:12:24.47\00:12:25.47
I'm having questions about God.
00:12:25.47\00:12:27.44
I'm having questions about
00:12:27.44\00:12:28.61
church or something where the
00:12:28.61\00:12:30.21
values that have been built into
00:12:30.21\00:12:32.08
that family have been strong.
00:12:32.08\00:12:33.98
But now all of a sudden,
00:12:33.98\00:12:34.98
a child comes and, "I'm having
00:12:34.98\00:12:36.72
questions about this."
00:12:36.72\00:12:38.32
Level one listening
00:12:38.32\00:12:39.82
will immediately shut that down.
00:12:39.82\00:12:42.19
"Well come on.
00:12:42.19\00:12:43.19
You know what we believe.
00:12:43.19\00:12:44.26
You know what's right.
00:12:44.26\00:12:45.26
You know what the Bible says.
00:12:45.26\00:12:46.29
You know..."
00:12:46.29\00:12:47.30
That's all level one.
00:12:47.30\00:12:49.23
Level two says, "Wow.
00:12:49.23\00:12:52.10
So let's talk.
00:12:52.10\00:12:54.00
Let's hear this."
00:12:54.00\00:12:55.57
And even if when the child
00:12:55.57\00:12:58.57
expresses their heart
00:12:58.57\00:12:59.91
and lets their heart bleed...
00:12:59.91\00:13:02.04
...even then,
00:13:04.35\00:13:05.35
when we don't agree,
00:13:05.35\00:13:06.75
how we manage it from there
00:13:06.75\00:13:08.95
is very, very important.
00:13:08.95\00:13:11.89
I think of an illustration
00:13:11.89\00:13:13.02
of a little child
00:13:13.02\00:13:14.09
coming home from school,
00:13:14.09\00:13:16.16
throwing his books down and
00:13:16.16\00:13:17.26
throwing his backpack down.
00:13:17.26\00:13:19.03
"I'm never going back to school
00:13:19.03\00:13:20.50
again!"
00:13:20.50\00:13:22.06
And if a parent is at level one,
00:13:22.06\00:13:24.30
they'll say something like,
00:13:24.30\00:13:26.77
"Well, of course you are.
00:13:26.77\00:13:27.80
We paid good money for you
00:13:27.80\00:13:28.87
to go to this school and
00:13:28.87\00:13:29.87
you're gonna to keep going.
00:13:29.87\00:13:30.91
So just go to your room and
00:13:30.91\00:13:32.21
have a glass of orange juice and
00:13:32.21\00:13:34.11
and I'll bring it to you
00:13:34.11\00:13:35.34
and a cookie, and you'll
00:13:35.34\00:13:36.71
feel better in a little while.
00:13:36.71\00:13:37.71
When you change your attitude,
00:13:37.71\00:13:39.21
and, you know, you can
00:13:39.21\00:13:40.62
come back out."
00:13:40.62\00:13:42.12
That's level one.
00:13:42.12\00:13:44.05
Level two would say,
00:13:44.05\00:13:46.42
"Wow, sounds like somebody
00:13:46.42\00:13:47.72
had a bad day.
00:13:47.72\00:13:49.06
Why don't you go put your books
00:13:50.63\00:13:52.03
away and all them get a cookie
00:13:52.03\00:13:54.30
and some juice, and we'll talk."
00:13:54.30\00:13:56.87
And the child comes back.
00:13:56.87\00:13:58.03
"Well, what was so hard
00:13:58.03\00:13:59.07
about today?"
00:13:59.07\00:14:00.14
"Well, you know, this happened,"
00:14:00.14\00:14:01.97
and let the parent explore
00:14:01.97\00:14:04.94
what's going on with the child.
00:14:04.94\00:14:07.21
That's the difference
00:14:07.21\00:14:08.78
in relationships
00:14:08.78\00:14:10.28
that will happen based on
00:14:10.28\00:14:12.21
how well we listened to them.
00:14:12.21\00:14:15.15
>> So, Pastor Bill,
00:14:15.15\00:14:16.12
it sounds like really
00:14:16.12\00:14:18.02
when we're using level two
00:14:18.02\00:14:20.62
listening, it's really
00:14:20.62\00:14:22.36
all about the talker,
00:14:22.36\00:14:24.29
the one that's
00:14:24.29\00:14:25.36
doing the talking.
00:14:25.36\00:14:26.83
It's all about them.
00:14:26.83\00:14:28.36
And all about
00:14:28.36\00:14:29.40
really reaching their heart.
00:14:29.40\00:14:31.07
Like you said, there's that
00:14:31.07\00:14:32.50
emotional connection
00:14:32.50\00:14:34.67
that we are fulfilling or
00:14:34.67\00:14:37.57
forming once we
00:14:37.57\00:14:40.44
are practicing listening
00:14:40.44\00:14:42.34
on a level two, because it's
00:14:42.34\00:14:44.08
not about me, it's about
00:14:44.08\00:14:46.21
the talker.
00:14:46.21\00:14:47.92
>> That's exactly what
00:14:47.92\00:14:48.92
level two is.
00:14:48.92\00:14:50.15
It's letting the conversation
00:14:50.15\00:14:51.95
unfold.
00:14:51.95\00:14:52.99
It has nothing to do with
00:14:52.99\00:14:54.02
whether I agree.
00:14:54.02\00:14:55.89
I can listen to somebody at
00:14:55.89\00:14:57.39
level two and not agree with
00:14:57.39\00:14:59.66
anything they're telling me.
00:14:59.66\00:15:01.50
But if I'm a good listener,
00:15:01.50\00:15:03.50
I can stay focused on them.
00:15:03.50\00:15:06.00
I can check in with them
00:15:06.00\00:15:07.40
in my own head and say, "Okay,
00:15:07.40\00:15:09.20
go to level two here
00:15:09.20\00:15:10.74
and pay attention."
00:15:10.74\00:15:12.41
And it can happen easily,
00:15:12.41\00:15:15.28
even if everything they're
00:15:15.28\00:15:16.78
saying, I have a
00:15:16.78\00:15:17.81
whole different worldview
00:15:17.81\00:15:19.08
or a whole different perspective
00:15:19.08\00:15:20.45
on the very same topic.
00:15:20.45\00:15:22.05
That happened to me
00:15:22.05\00:15:23.05
just recently.
00:15:23.05\00:15:24.02
I guess maybe that's why
00:15:24.02\00:15:25.02
I'm saying it.
00:15:25.02\00:15:26.02
It just, within the last week,
00:15:26.02\00:15:27.46
a lady began to share with me
00:15:27.46\00:15:29.16
some of her philosophical views
00:15:29.16\00:15:31.43
on God and
00:15:31.43\00:15:33.43
the spiritual nature
00:15:33.43\00:15:34.46
of the world.
00:15:34.46\00:15:35.56
And, I have a biblical
00:15:35.56\00:15:37.13
worldview, and some of the
00:15:37.13\00:15:38.73
things she was saying
00:15:38.73\00:15:40.17
would not be backed up
00:15:40.17\00:15:41.30
by the Scripture.
00:15:41.30\00:15:42.60
But I just thought, in my head
00:15:42.60\00:15:44.31
I said, "Stay at level two,"
00:15:44.31\00:15:46.07
and I and I connected in
00:15:46.07\00:15:47.84
and let her talk.
00:15:47.84\00:15:48.88
And in the end, I said to her,
00:15:48.88\00:15:51.65
"What I really appreciate
00:15:51.65\00:15:52.95
about you and me is that
00:15:52.95\00:15:54.45
we can agree to disagree.
00:15:54.45\00:15:55.88
And I would disagree for these
00:15:55.88\00:15:57.42
reasons, but we can still
00:15:57.42\00:15:58.89
be friends."
00:15:58.89\00:16:00.36
That's what level two is
00:16:00.36\00:16:01.42
all about, and that's where
00:16:01.42\00:16:02.72
connections really happen.
00:16:02.72\00:16:04.89
>> So someone may be listening
00:16:04.89\00:16:06.16
to this and thinking, "Okay,
00:16:06.16\00:16:08.43
I'm a level two listener.
00:16:08.43\00:16:10.73
Do I ever have anything to say?"
00:16:10.73\00:16:13.00
>> Yes, the level two listener
00:16:14.17\00:16:16.34
does get a chance
00:16:16.34\00:16:17.41
to say something. [laughs]
00:16:17.41\00:16:19.54
So level two listening,
00:16:19.54\00:16:21.98
if you're talking to me
00:16:21.98\00:16:23.35
about something that's going on
00:16:23.35\00:16:24.68
in your life, in your
00:16:24.68\00:16:25.75
experience, with your children,
00:16:25.75\00:16:27.15
with your relationship,
00:16:27.15\00:16:28.35
with whatever, I can ask
00:16:28.35\00:16:30.69
lots of questions along the way,
00:16:30.69\00:16:32.39
but the questions will all be
00:16:32.39\00:16:34.02
about, "Tell me more.
00:16:34.02\00:16:36.36
Could you say that
00:16:36.36\00:16:37.39
in different words?
00:16:37.39\00:16:38.63
Help me understand
00:16:38.63\00:16:39.69
what you meant when you said..."
00:16:39.69\00:16:41.70
All my talking, all my questions
00:16:41.70\00:16:43.63
will be about exploring
00:16:43.63\00:16:46.13
that person's thoughts.
00:16:46.13\00:16:48.17
Then when the
00:16:48.17\00:16:50.11
story is out
00:16:50.11\00:16:51.81
and when the,
00:16:51.81\00:16:54.34
maybe the energy
00:16:54.34\00:16:55.38
around the topic is beginning to
00:16:55.38\00:16:56.95
wane a little bit,
00:16:56.95\00:16:58.45
then it would be very possible
00:16:58.45\00:17:00.35
for you to become
00:17:00.35\00:17:02.08
the talker,
00:17:02.08\00:17:03.65
take the mic and say things
00:17:03.65\00:17:06.35
like, "I really appreciate
00:17:06.35\00:17:08.02
what you said.
00:17:08.02\00:17:09.46
I want to share
00:17:09.46\00:17:10.93
some of my thoughts
00:17:10.93\00:17:11.99
on that topic.
00:17:11.99\00:17:13.19
This is what I have learned."
00:17:13.19\00:17:15.63
If I take the mic and say,
00:17:15.63\00:17:18.33
"Well, I've listened to what
00:17:18.33\00:17:19.33
you said and I don't agree with
00:17:19.33\00:17:20.47
any of it," now I've gone
00:17:20.47\00:17:22.34
right back to level one again.
00:17:22.34\00:17:24.71
But it's very reasonable
00:17:24.71\00:17:26.74
and right that I should be
00:17:26.74\00:17:28.38
able to share my perspective
00:17:28.38\00:17:29.81
on something.
00:17:29.81\00:17:31.25
However,
00:17:31.25\00:17:32.75
if my goal in
00:17:32.75\00:17:34.92
beginning to talk now
00:17:34.92\00:17:36.58
is about proving to you that
00:17:36.58\00:17:38.22
you're wrong and that I'm right,
00:17:38.22\00:17:40.69
I'm going to wash out
00:17:40.69\00:17:41.76
the whole conversation.
00:17:41.76\00:17:43.12
I think that we would
00:17:44.96\00:17:47.03
do very well if we would
00:17:47.03\00:17:48.40
just remember, I acknowledge
00:17:48.40\00:17:50.03
your position.
00:17:50.03\00:17:51.90
This is my position.
00:17:51.90\00:17:54.24
If I acknowledge your position,
00:17:54.24\00:17:55.87
but this is my position,
00:17:55.87\00:17:58.14
now I've washed it out.
00:17:58.14\00:17:59.84
If I acknowledge your position,
00:17:59.84\00:18:01.88
period.
00:18:01.88\00:18:03.08
This is my position.
00:18:03.08\00:18:04.68
Now I'm allowing your position
00:18:04.68\00:18:06.25
to stand, I'm allowing your
00:18:06.25\00:18:07.52
perspective to be real,
00:18:07.52\00:18:09.05
can be on the table,
00:18:09.05\00:18:10.35
and I'm going to add mine.
00:18:10.35\00:18:12.25
So they're both equivalent,
00:18:12.25\00:18:14.12
they're both valid,
00:18:14.12\00:18:16.39
but I haven't...
00:18:16.39\00:18:17.93
...washed it out by
00:18:19.03\00:18:21.70
pushing it away.
00:18:21.70\00:18:23.03
>> Pastor Bill, this reminds me
00:18:24.00\00:18:25.60
of a book that Mike and I read,
00:18:25.60\00:18:27.67
and the book was entitled
00:18:27.67\00:18:29.24
“Doing Life with Your
00:18:29.24\00:18:30.41
Adult Children”
00:18:30.41\00:18:32.04
by Jim Byrnes.
00:18:32.04\00:18:33.64
And he mentioned something
00:18:33.64\00:18:35.31
over there, and it says,
00:18:35.31\00:18:37.41
he says that when we give
00:18:37.41\00:18:40.22
our adult children,
00:18:40.22\00:18:41.75
this with our adult children,
00:18:41.75\00:18:43.75
when we give them
00:18:43.75\00:18:45.05
unsolicited advice,
00:18:45.05\00:18:47.49
they see it as criticism
00:18:47.49\00:18:50.13
and they're gonna shut down.
00:18:50.13\00:18:52.43
And so this reminds me when
00:18:52.43\00:18:54.66
we're giving unsolicited advice,
00:18:54.66\00:18:57.43
we are speaking more,
00:18:57.43\00:18:59.63
maybe because of our experience
00:18:59.63\00:19:01.74
and we don't want them to
00:19:01.74\00:19:02.77
make the same mistakes
00:19:02.77\00:19:03.84
as what we did.
00:19:03.84\00:19:04.94
So when we're giving
00:19:04.94\00:19:06.04
unsolicited advice,
00:19:06.04\00:19:07.54
we are actually being
00:19:07.54\00:19:08.64
a level one listener.
00:19:08.64\00:19:09.91
>> Absolutely at level one.
00:19:09.91\00:19:11.28
>> Yeah, and so they're
00:19:11.28\00:19:12.51
feeling like, "Wow.
00:19:12.51\00:19:14.28
We're feeling criticized.
00:19:14.28\00:19:15.92
We're feeling condemn.
00:19:15.92\00:19:17.02
We're feeling judged."
00:19:17.02\00:19:18.05
And so...
00:19:18.05\00:19:18.99
...they just shut down, right?
00:19:19.59\00:19:20.92
>> So the level of connection
00:19:20.92\00:19:22.52
grows higher and higher
00:19:22.52\00:19:24.03
and higher.
00:19:24.03\00:19:25.09
We think about a deep connection
00:19:25.09\00:19:26.06
and higher is deep
00:19:26.06\00:19:27.66
in this illustration,
00:19:27.66\00:19:29.26
we go higher and higher and
00:19:29.26\00:19:30.47
higher towards what I would call
00:19:30.47\00:19:32.27
in-to-me-see, or "intimacy"
00:19:32.27\00:19:34.74
spelled differently.
00:19:34.74\00:19:36.04
We all want to be seen into.
00:19:36.04\00:19:38.54
We all want to be known
00:19:38.54\00:19:39.94
in our hearts.
00:19:39.94\00:19:41.34
and that happens when we listen
00:19:41.34\00:19:43.85
or when we are listened to.
00:19:43.85\00:19:46.15
So if two people have learned to
00:19:46.15\00:19:47.82
listen deeply to each other,
00:19:47.82\00:19:49.88
the depth of in-to-me-see
00:19:49.88\00:19:51.45
can grow to a place that is
00:19:51.45\00:19:53.56
unbelievably rewarding.
00:19:53.56\00:19:56.29
>> That's very important
00:19:56.29\00:19:57.86
understanding that in-to-me-see,
00:19:57.86\00:19:59.73
but who allows you to see
00:19:59.73\00:20:00.96
into me is me.
00:20:00.96\00:20:02.36
And if you shut down
00:20:02.36\00:20:03.60
the conversation by the way
00:20:03.60\00:20:05.10
you're listening, then I'm
00:20:05.10\00:20:06.63
gonna quit...
00:20:06.63\00:20:07.60
>> Exactly.
00:20:07.60\00:20:08.37
>> ...showing you into me, yep.
00:20:08.37\00:20:09.77
>> Exactly.
00:20:09.77\00:20:10.61
If I don't make it safe
00:20:10.61\00:20:11.67
for you to talk,
00:20:11.67\00:20:12.84
you're never going to share
00:20:12.84\00:20:13.98
your heart with me.
00:20:13.98\00:20:15.08
>> Right.
00:20:15.08\00:20:15.81
>> And so people have
00:20:15.81\00:20:18.41
phoned me after reading the book
00:20:18.41\00:20:20.28
and saying, "Pastor Bill,
00:20:20.28\00:20:22.98
you nailed me.
00:20:22.98\00:20:24.02
I'm a level one listener.
00:20:24.02\00:20:25.25
I didn't realize
00:20:25.25\00:20:26.69
what a poor listener that I am."
00:20:26.69\00:20:28.72
And I'm glad that people
00:20:30.26\00:20:32.39
come to that awareness
00:20:32.39\00:20:33.73
and realize that there is
00:20:33.73\00:20:35.13
a different way to do this.
00:20:35.13\00:20:37.40
>> So, Pastor Bill,
00:20:37.40\00:20:38.67
what practical steps can we take
00:20:38.67\00:20:41.40
or can we do
00:20:41.40\00:20:42.87
to really become
00:20:42.87\00:20:44.64
a level two listener?
00:20:44.64\00:20:46.61
>> It's about reminding
00:20:46.61\00:20:47.64
ourselves as we're
00:20:47.64\00:20:48.64
talking to people,
00:20:48.64\00:20:50.11
go to level two.
00:20:50.11\00:20:51.45
Stay in level two.
00:20:51.45\00:20:53.58
Think in level two.
00:20:53.58\00:20:55.18
Give them the honour.
00:20:55.18\00:20:57.15
Give them the mic.
00:20:57.15\00:20:59.05
Recognize that they're
00:20:59.05\00:21:01.02
telling a story that they
00:21:01.02\00:21:02.19
need to be able to express.
00:21:02.19\00:21:04.96
There's an acronym that says,
00:21:06.03\00:21:08.06
“Wait,” W-A-I-T:
00:21:08.06\00:21:10.93
Why Am I Talking?
00:21:10.93\00:21:12.93
If we could use that discipline,
00:21:14.37\00:21:16.67
we could be good
00:21:16.67\00:21:17.67
level two listeners.
00:21:17.67\00:21:18.97
Well, why am I talking?
00:21:18.97\00:21:20.44
Why do I need to say
00:21:20.44\00:21:21.58
what I'm about to say?
00:21:21.58\00:21:23.35
Is it going to enhance
00:21:23.35\00:21:24.75
the conversation
00:21:24.75\00:21:26.61
with Mike or with René or with
00:21:26.61\00:21:28.48
whoever I'm talking to?
00:21:28.48\00:21:29.92
Is it gonna help them develop
00:21:29.92\00:21:31.45
their story and their thoughts?
00:21:31.45\00:21:33.46
If it's for any other reason...
00:21:33.46\00:21:35.92
...I just wanna insert a joke
00:21:36.83\00:21:38.09
because I'm a funny guy,
00:21:38.09\00:21:39.39
or I just want to deflect
00:21:39.39\00:21:41.60
what you just said or whatever.
00:21:41.60\00:21:43.83
If I'm taking away from
00:21:43.83\00:21:44.93
your story, then it's gone to
00:21:44.93\00:21:46.43
level one.
00:21:46.43\00:21:48.20
So it's a discipline.
00:21:48.20\00:21:49.24
It's learning, but it's not
00:21:49.24\00:21:50.57
hard, it's just the discipline
00:21:50.57\00:21:52.34
of paying attention.
00:21:52.34\00:21:54.34
This person has the mic.
00:21:54.34\00:21:56.18
Let them talk.
00:21:56.18\00:21:57.38
Help me develop their story.
00:21:58.48\00:22:00.18
>> Okay, and...
00:22:01.15\00:22:02.32
...what about level three
00:22:03.45\00:22:05.69
of listening?
00:22:05.69\00:22:06.72
Because it's a level three,
00:22:06.72\00:22:07.76
right?
00:22:07.76\00:22:08.36
>> There is a level three.
00:22:08.36\00:22:09.46
We stop at level three,
00:22:09.46\00:22:10.56
but there is a three.
00:22:10.56\00:22:11.89
Level three pays attention to
00:22:11.89\00:22:14.40
the body language,
00:22:14.40\00:22:16.26
the unspoken words
00:22:16.26\00:22:18.20
in the conversation,
00:22:18.20\00:22:20.54
the things that are happening.
00:22:20.54\00:22:21.80
It could be the look
00:22:21.80\00:22:23.27
on a person's face.
00:22:23.27\00:22:25.01
It could be if they
00:22:25.01\00:22:26.14
roll their eyes at us.
00:22:26.14\00:22:27.34
It could be if we see
00:22:27.34\00:22:28.44
a tear develop,
00:22:28.44\00:22:29.51
it could be if they're smiling
00:22:29.51\00:22:31.85
or if they've lost their smile.
00:22:31.85\00:22:33.85
We're paying attention
00:22:33.85\00:22:35.38
to the atmosphere
00:22:35.38\00:22:37.35
within the conversation.
00:22:37.35\00:22:39.85
So let me give an illustration.
00:22:39.85\00:22:41.52
I came home, Gwen, my wife,
00:22:41.52\00:22:43.49
was, there was tears
00:22:43.49\00:22:45.63
and she was home alone
00:22:45.63\00:22:46.80
and there's tears
00:22:46.80\00:22:47.86
and her face is red and
00:22:47.86\00:22:50.23
I said, "Oh...
00:22:50.23\00:22:51.57
...what's happening?
00:22:52.60\00:22:53.70
What's going on?"
00:22:53.70\00:22:55.37
And she said, "Oh, it's
00:22:55.37\00:22:57.37
that time of year
00:22:57.37\00:22:59.44
when Kristen died and
00:22:59.44\00:23:02.11
I've just been thinking
00:23:02.11\00:23:03.14
a lot about her
00:23:03.14\00:23:04.91
and remembering
00:23:04.91\00:23:07.02
those last few days."
00:23:07.02\00:23:09.55
And so level one listening
00:23:09.55\00:23:11.29
would say, "Yeah, well, that's
00:23:11.29\00:23:13.29
three years ago.
00:23:13.29\00:23:14.39
We gotta move on."
00:23:14.39\00:23:16.69
But I went into level two
00:23:16.69\00:23:18.63
and I said, "Yeah, it's
00:23:18.63\00:23:20.66
that time of year, let's talk."
00:23:20.66\00:23:22.60
So we sat down and we began to
00:23:22.60\00:23:24.03
talk, reminisce about
00:23:24.03\00:23:26.70
our memories of that week and...
00:23:26.70\00:23:29.44
But then we began to remember
00:23:29.44\00:23:31.11
other things and what a joy
00:23:31.11\00:23:33.41
she was to us
00:23:33.41\00:23:34.44
and the fun things.
00:23:34.44\00:23:37.41
And pretty soon we're laughing.
00:23:37.41\00:23:39.45
And because I just let her heart
00:23:39.45\00:23:41.75
be real
00:23:41.75\00:23:43.22
in that moment.
00:23:43.22\00:23:44.75
And that's what
00:23:44.75\00:23:45.79
level two listening does,
00:23:45.79\00:23:47.72
it pays attention to the
00:23:47.72\00:23:49.49
level three that's going on
00:23:49.49\00:23:51.06
and then slips into level two.
00:23:51.06\00:23:53.09
What's going on for you?
00:23:53.09\00:23:55.16
Now, if I said to you,
00:23:55.16\00:23:56.70
"I see the tear.
00:23:56.70\00:23:58.07
You always put tears in-
00:23:58.07\00:23:59.77
you always start crying
00:23:59.77\00:24:01.40
when you wanna manipulate
00:24:01.40\00:24:02.50
the conversation and
00:24:02.50\00:24:04.01
you're just trying to get
00:24:04.01\00:24:05.04
your own way again."
00:24:05.04\00:24:06.31
Okay, that's level one.
00:24:06.31\00:24:08.28
Level two just says,
00:24:08.28\00:24:10.15
"I see your tears.
00:24:10.15\00:24:11.51
What are the tears about?"
00:24:11.51\00:24:12.95
I think of a couple of stories
00:24:14.55\00:24:16.15
very briefly in the Bible.
00:24:16.15\00:24:18.49
The angel came to Zechariah and
00:24:18.49\00:24:20.59
said, "You're gonna have a son."
00:24:20.59\00:24:22.39
And he said, "Yeah, well,
00:24:23.49\00:24:24.76
how can this be?
00:24:24.76\00:24:25.83
I'm an old man and
00:24:25.83\00:24:26.83
my wife is an old woman."
00:24:26.83\00:24:29.06
And the angel said,
00:24:29.06\00:24:30.73
"You're gonna have a son
00:24:30.73\00:24:31.73
and you're not gonna talk
00:24:31.73\00:24:32.73
until that day."
00:24:32.73\00:24:33.80
An angel came to Mary and said,
00:24:35.20\00:24:36.87
"You're gonna have a son."
00:24:36.87\00:24:38.31
"Well, how can this be?
00:24:39.24\00:24:40.31
I'm a virgin.
00:24:40.31\00:24:41.58
I'm not married."
00:24:41.58\00:24:42.88
And, "Well, it's gonna be
00:24:43.71\00:24:45.11
like this."
00:24:45.11\00:24:46.15
And she said,
00:24:46.15\00:24:47.32
"May it be as you have said."
00:24:47.32\00:24:49.08
She was level two
00:24:50.62\00:24:53.09
thinking about, "Okay,
00:24:53.09\00:24:54.89
I don't understand,
00:24:54.89\00:24:55.99
but I hear you."
00:24:55.99\00:24:57.56
Whereas his question,
00:24:57.56\00:24:58.79
almost the very same question,
00:24:58.79\00:25:00.63
was almost defiant.
00:25:00.63\00:25:02.40
"This is crazy.
00:25:02.40\00:25:03.47
I don't know what you're saying.
00:25:03.47\00:25:04.53
I can't have a child."
00:25:04.53\00:25:06.27
And so we can even do
00:25:06.27\00:25:08.57
level two listening with God.
00:25:08.57\00:25:10.14
When we have to go through
00:25:10.14\00:25:11.21
hard times, "God, what do You
00:25:11.21\00:25:13.11
want to teach me here?
00:25:13.11\00:25:14.54
What's this about?"
00:25:14.54\00:25:15.58
Rather than, "God, why are You
00:25:15.58\00:25:17.25
asking me to go through this?
00:25:17.25\00:25:18.55
Why are You putting this on me?"
00:25:18.55\00:25:20.35
That's level one.
00:25:20.35\00:25:21.88
Level two listening with God
00:25:21.88\00:25:23.32
will take us into a place of
00:25:23.32\00:25:24.85
intimacy with Him as well.
00:25:24.85\00:25:26.89
Listening is such a
00:25:26.89\00:25:28.42
wonderful tool and life skill.
00:25:28.42\00:25:31.06
>> So, Bill, we've come to
00:25:31.06\00:25:32.56
the end of our time together,
00:25:32.56\00:25:33.66
I wonder if you can pray
00:25:33.66\00:25:34.63
for our viewers.
00:25:34.63\00:25:35.63
Maybe someone is just listening
00:25:35.63\00:25:36.87
to this kind of a conversation
00:25:36.87\00:25:39.00
for the first time and says,
00:25:39.00\00:25:40.14
"Whoa, this is something
00:25:40.14\00:25:41.44
I wasn't aware of.
00:25:41.44\00:25:43.00
Help me to be
00:25:43.00\00:25:44.14
a better listener."
00:25:44.14\00:25:45.41
And maybe there's someone
00:25:45.41\00:25:46.44
who's actually wanting
00:25:46.44\00:25:48.54
others to listen to them
00:25:48.54\00:25:50.71
and for them to have someone
00:25:50.71\00:25:53.28
who's a real good listening ear.
00:25:53.28\00:25:55.22
>> Glad to.
00:25:56.02\00:25:57.19
Dear Father in Heaven,
00:25:57.19\00:25:58.32
thank You so much for
00:25:58.32\00:26:00.96
calling us to a place of
00:26:00.96\00:26:02.39
intimacy with You.
00:26:02.39\00:26:04.69
But may we turn that around
00:26:04.69\00:26:06.03
and give that gift to others,
00:26:06.03\00:26:07.76
the ones that we love.
00:26:07.76\00:26:09.60
Maybe there's people
00:26:09.60\00:26:10.63
listening today who have
00:26:10.63\00:26:11.73
struggled with a depth
00:26:11.73\00:26:13.60
of relationship.
00:26:13.60\00:26:14.87
I pray that You will
00:26:14.87\00:26:16.17
speak to them in a way that
00:26:16.17\00:26:17.44
they will listen deeper.
00:26:17.44\00:26:19.04
They will learn to relate
00:26:19.04\00:26:20.68
in a way that will build
00:26:20.68\00:26:22.11
confidence, build safety
00:26:22.11\00:26:24.48
so that the connection will be
00:26:24.48\00:26:26.45
deeper and stronger
00:26:26.45\00:26:27.55
in every way.
00:26:27.55\00:26:29.22
Most of all, may we be
00:26:29.22\00:26:30.69
good listeners of You.
00:26:30.69\00:26:32.32
Thank You for all You do for us.
00:26:32.32\00:26:33.92
In Jesus name, amen.
00:26:33.92\00:26:36.16
>> Amen.
00:26:36.16\00:26:37.23
Bill, thank you for
00:26:37.23\00:26:39.23
sharing with us
00:26:39.23\00:26:40.46
another one of the life lessons
00:26:40.46\00:26:42.40
that you learned through your
00:26:42.40\00:26:43.57
wilderness experience.
00:26:43.57\00:26:45.43
It's been such a pleasure
00:26:45.43\00:26:46.87
having you here today.
00:26:46.87\00:26:48.64
>> It's been my pleasure
00:26:48.64\00:26:49.64
to be here and I love
00:26:49.64\00:26:50.84
talking about these things.
00:26:50.84\00:26:52.27
[inspirational music]
00:26:52.27\00:26:55.28
¤¤
00:26:55.28\00:26:58.25
>> Friends, whenever life
00:27:05.89\00:27:07.66
doesn't make sense
00:27:07.66\00:27:08.96
or you are feeling down
00:27:08.96\00:27:10.36
and discouraged, misunderstood,
00:27:10.36\00:27:12.96
like no one is listening.
00:27:12.96\00:27:14.83
We recommend you pick up
00:27:14.83\00:27:16.53
this little book,
00:27:16.53\00:27:17.97
Help In Daily Living.
00:27:17.97\00:27:20.14
>> We would like to send
00:27:21.14\00:27:22.77
this book to you
00:27:22.77\00:27:23.84
free of charge if you're
00:27:23.84\00:27:25.44
feeling like the wheels are
00:27:25.44\00:27:27.24
falling off or your life is
00:27:27.24\00:27:29.48
becoming unglued, or if the
00:27:29.48\00:27:31.15
wheels are simply spinning
00:27:31.15\00:27:33.21
and you're not getting anywhere.
00:27:33.21\00:27:34.88
You will find solutions
00:27:34.88\00:27:36.79
in this little book,
00:27:36.79\00:27:37.99
our free offer,
00:27:37.99\00:27:39.19
Help In Daily Living.
00:27:39.19\00:27:40.92
>> Before you go, we would
00:27:41.69\00:27:43.16
like to thank all of you
00:27:43.16\00:27:44.89
who have supported the ministry
00:27:44.89\00:27:46.39
of It Is Written Canada
00:27:46.39\00:27:48.06
with your prayers
00:27:48.06\00:27:49.46
and financial contributions.
00:27:49.46\00:27:52.20
Without your support,
00:27:52.20\00:27:54.47
this television ministry
00:27:54.47\00:27:56.30
could not have reached
00:27:56.30\00:27:58.44
so many people
00:27:58.44\00:27:59.74
for so many decades.
00:27:59.74\00:28:01.94
>> Yes, thank you.
00:28:01.94\00:28:03.28
And we would like to invite you
00:28:03.28\00:28:05.11
to follow us on Instagram and
00:28:05.11\00:28:06.98
Facebook and subscribe to our
00:28:06.98\00:28:09.58
YouTube channel, and also
00:28:09.58\00:28:10.85
listen to our podcasts.
00:28:10.85\00:28:13.42
>> Friends, if you want to
00:28:13.42\00:28:14.89
develop the kind of
00:28:14.89\00:28:16.19
listening skills Jesus
00:28:16.19\00:28:17.93
demonstrated in His life,
00:28:17.93\00:28:20.40
we recommend you open the Bible
00:28:20.40\00:28:23.23
where it is recorded that
00:28:23.23\00:28:25.00
our Saviour found His assurance
00:28:25.00\00:28:27.27
to defeat the devil
00:28:27.27\00:28:29.24
through the Word of His Father
00:28:29.24\00:28:31.31
when He declared...
00:28:31.31\00:28:33.04
[uplifting music]
00:28:43.65\00:28:46.65
¤¤
00:28:46.65\00:28:49.62