>> If you had to say
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goodbye to her
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for a little while,
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but in the end, everthing was
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going to be okay,
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would that be all right
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with you?
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That question was
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deep.
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It was thought provoking,
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but it was also reassuring.
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[theme music]
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¤¤
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[calm music]
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¤¤
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>> Welcome to
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It Is Written Canada.
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Thank you for joining us.
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Some losses in life
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are self-inflicted,
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and some losses come
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at us unexpectedly.
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What do we do
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when we are faced with the loss
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of a loved one?
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When life is totally
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out of control?
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What do we need to know
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about God at times like these?
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>> Why does He choose
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to not answer prayer sometimes?
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And how do we handle
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the loss of a child
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when we stand helplessly by?
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What does God want us to know
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about Him
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at times like these?
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Today on It Is Written Canada,
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our special guest is
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Pastor Bill Spangler, who knows
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all about loss.
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He has led churches
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in the maritime provinces,
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British Columbia and Alberta,
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retiring from ministry
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in 2020.
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He has a bachelor's degree of
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theology and a master's degree
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in divinity, and has trained
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and is certified
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as a family mediator
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and life coach.
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>> Bill is married to
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Gwen Yosako and they are parents
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to two daughters
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and enjoy two grandchildren.
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and enjoy two grandchildren.
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Bill is the author of the book
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Lessons From the Wilderness,
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a catalog of life's lessons
00:02:27.54\00:02:29.84
that are useful to anyone
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seeking personal growth and
00:02:31.78\00:02:34.25
skills for making relationships
00:02:34.25\00:02:35.98
skills for making relationships
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work.
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>> Bill, thank you for
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joining us on
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It Is Written Canada today.
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>> It's my privilege
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to be here again.
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Thank you for inviting me.
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>> Pastor Bill, in your book,
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you speak about
00:02:48.50\00:02:50.30
different losses
00:02:50.30\00:02:51.63
that you experienced throughout
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your wilderness journey.
00:02:53.84\00:02:55.74
Can you tell us about
00:02:55.74\00:02:57.41
a loss that you suffered
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that had nothing to do with
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you causing it?
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>> Yeah, the sad reality of
00:03:04.41\00:03:05.95
life on planet Earth is that
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we all deal with loss.
00:03:07.68\00:03:09.15
Loss comes unexpectedly,
00:03:10.92\00:03:12.75
abruptly.
00:03:12.75\00:03:14.32
Sometimes we see it coming
00:03:14.32\00:03:15.72
and we can't stop it.
00:03:15.72\00:03:17.13
And so losses come in a
00:03:18.69\00:03:19.96
variety of things.
00:03:19.96\00:03:21.00
And so I think it's a good topic
00:03:21.00\00:03:22.36
to talk about.
00:03:22.36\00:03:23.80
I was fortunate, we were
00:03:25.10\00:03:27.00
fortunate enough to have
00:03:27.00\00:03:28.74
two girls.
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Like every family, we-
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pastor's family, we moved around
00:03:33.11\00:03:34.64
a bit and they had to face...
00:03:34.64\00:03:36.85
...changing schools and
00:03:38.05\00:03:39.41
changing homes, and-
00:03:39.41\00:03:41.02
but they weathered it well.
00:03:41.02\00:03:42.38
They were great.
00:03:42.38\00:03:44.39
And as they got older and
00:03:44.39\00:03:46.29
graduated from high school,
00:03:46.29\00:03:47.76
went on to college,
00:03:47.76\00:03:49.86
Karen became,
00:03:49.86\00:03:51.19
our younger daughter,
00:03:51.19\00:03:52.33
became a graphic design artist.
00:03:52.33\00:03:54.83
And Kristen, our older daughter,
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went to school to become a nurse
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and spent time
00:04:00.57\00:04:02.80
working with children
00:04:02.80\00:04:04.04
in hospital at
00:04:04.04\00:04:05.91
Loma Linda, California,
00:04:05.91\00:04:07.24
and then moved to
00:04:07.24\00:04:08.01
and then moved to
00:04:08.01\00:04:09.51
Seattle, Washington,
00:04:09.51\00:04:10.58
where she was a nurse at the
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Seattle Children's Hospital.
00:04:13.48\00:04:15.48
She did a lot of IV therapy.
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She was a specialist at that.
00:04:18.05\00:04:19.22
She was a specialist at that.
00:04:19.22\00:04:20.76
And they would call her to do
00:04:20.76\00:04:23.12
IVs on little preemie babies.
00:04:23.12\00:04:25.56
And...
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...one woman described it as
00:04:28.66\00:04:30.60
Kristen could put
00:04:30.60\00:04:31.87
an IV into a rock if she had to.
00:04:31.87\00:04:34.04
She was just an expert
00:04:34.04\00:04:36.27
at finding those
00:04:36.27\00:04:37.27
tiny little veins and
00:04:37.27\00:04:39.67
make it work and
00:04:39.67\00:04:40.94
I heard good stories about
00:04:40.94\00:04:43.48
some of the work that she did.
00:04:43.48\00:04:44.88
So as life
00:04:46.18\00:04:47.75
goes along,
00:04:47.75\00:04:49.32
one day, we woke up
00:04:49.32\00:04:51.19
to a new reality.
00:04:51.19\00:04:52.72
She had some tests done
00:04:54.02\00:04:56.83
for something that was
00:04:56.83\00:04:57.93
a concern to her
00:04:57.93\00:04:59.76
and came to the hotel
00:04:59.76\00:05:01.20
where we were staying in Seattle
00:05:01.20\00:05:03.00
and announced that,
00:05:03.00\00:05:05.67
"The test didn't go well.
00:05:05.67\00:05:07.40
I have more tests
00:05:07.40\00:05:08.90
this afternoon.
00:05:08.90\00:05:09.97
But it doesn't look good."
00:05:12.07\00:05:14.81
So we waited around
00:05:14.81\00:05:15.88
for the next 24 hours
00:05:15.88\00:05:17.55
to see what would happen.
00:05:17.55\00:05:18.71
And she...
00:05:18.71\00:05:20.58
...came the next morning
00:05:21.68\00:05:22.85
as a result of
00:05:22.85\00:05:23.99
getting those test results
00:05:23.99\00:05:25.59
and...
00:05:25.59\00:05:26.62
...she told us that,
00:05:28.06\00:05:29.39
"I have stage four cancer."
00:05:29.39\00:05:31.16
And, of course, none of us were
00:05:33.03\00:05:34.46
prepared for that.
00:05:34.46\00:05:36.00
That was in August of 2018.
00:05:36.00\00:05:38.13
We didn't know what that meant.
00:05:39.43\00:05:40.64
We didn't know where it went
00:05:40.64\00:05:42.04
from there.
00:05:42.04\00:05:43.04
We didn't know what
00:05:43.04\00:05:44.07
the future held or anything.
00:05:44.07\00:05:45.61
It was just all so fresh.
00:05:45.61\00:05:47.18
But the first day when she came
00:05:48.48\00:05:50.68
and told us that
00:05:50.68\00:05:53.21
the test didn't go well,
00:05:53.21\00:05:54.75
I have more tests to take
00:05:54.75\00:05:56.38
this afternoon,
00:05:56.38\00:05:57.95
at that very same time, in the
00:05:57.95\00:05:59.52
middle of that conversation,
00:05:59.52\00:06:01.59
I had a
00:06:01.59\00:06:03.32
thought go through my mind
00:06:03.32\00:06:04.69
that I don't know that
00:06:04.69\00:06:06.70
it was a voice,
00:06:06.70\00:06:08.20
but it was such a
00:06:08.20\00:06:09.26
clear, ringing message that I
00:06:09.26\00:06:10.97
take it that it was from God.
00:06:10.97\00:06:12.43
I immediately felt it was
00:06:12.43\00:06:13.84
God speaking to me.
00:06:13.84\00:06:15.17
And the message was this:
00:06:16.77\00:06:18.84
"You've been praying
00:06:18.84\00:06:19.87
for this girl.
00:06:19.87\00:06:21.71
Trust Me.
00:06:21.71\00:06:22.91
I've got this."
00:06:22.91\00:06:24.85
That was the
00:06:24.85\00:06:26.25
clear, clear sentence
00:06:26.25\00:06:28.12
in my mind.
00:06:28.12\00:06:30.22
So I didn't know
00:06:30.22\00:06:31.59
if that "I've got this" message
00:06:31.59\00:06:34.16
was, "I'm going to heal her..."
00:06:34.16\00:06:37.06
...or if the message was,
00:06:38.33\00:06:40.33
"I've got this," meaning
00:06:40.33\00:06:43.26
"Don't worry.
00:06:43.26\00:06:44.47
Everything is in My control."
00:06:44.47\00:06:46.43
So I took courage from that
00:06:48.14\00:06:50.14
that I shared with the family
00:06:50.14\00:06:52.11
immediately afterwards.
00:06:52.11\00:06:53.61
I said, "I just feel
00:06:53.61\00:06:55.71
very strongly to tell you this.
00:06:55.71\00:06:58.61
So let's find out
00:06:58.61\00:06:59.68
where this goes."
00:06:59.68\00:07:02.15
So three weeks later,
00:07:02.15\00:07:03.99
I was back in Seattle
00:07:03.99\00:07:06.49
for her first...
00:07:06.49\00:07:08.26
...chemo infusion.
00:07:09.52\00:07:11.83
I stayed around with her
00:07:11.83\00:07:12.96
for a couple days to make sure
00:07:12.96\00:07:14.36
that she was okay.
00:07:14.36\00:07:16.56
And we went for a lunch
00:07:16.56\00:07:18.17
before I got on the airplane
00:07:18.17\00:07:19.50
to go home and had a
00:07:19.50\00:07:21.07
great, great chat,
00:07:21.07\00:07:23.24
just about
00:07:23.24\00:07:25.67
reality of life and...
00:07:25.67\00:07:27.48
...she was so optimistic.
00:07:29.78\00:07:31.51
"I'm going to beat this.
00:07:31.51\00:07:33.01
Everything is going to be
00:07:33.01\00:07:34.25
good because I'm going to
00:07:34.25\00:07:35.78
do what it takes to beat this.
00:07:35.78\00:07:37.62
I'm going to be
00:07:37.62\00:07:38.65
a cancer survivor,"
00:07:38.65\00:07:39.69
was her message.
00:07:39.69\00:07:41.39
And we sat in the window of a
00:07:41.39\00:07:42.62
little cafe that she liked and
00:07:42.62\00:07:44.59
watched people on the street
00:07:44.59\00:07:46.06
and she was just very
00:07:46.06\00:07:48.46
philosophical about life and...
00:07:48.46\00:07:51.17
...you know, she's facing
00:07:52.27\00:07:53.37
the battle of her
00:07:53.37\00:07:54.54
whole journey.
00:07:54.54\00:07:55.94
And she pointed to a lady
00:07:55.94\00:07:58.14
on the street.
00:07:58.14\00:07:59.14
I still distinctly
00:07:59.14\00:08:00.28
remember this.
00:08:00.28\00:08:01.58
And that lady was struggling
00:08:01.58\00:08:03.24
with something,
00:08:03.24\00:08:05.01
a health issue of some kind,
00:08:05.01\00:08:06.68
and she said,
00:08:06.68\00:08:08.75
"I have no right
00:08:08.75\00:08:10.12
to judge that lady.
00:08:10.12\00:08:11.32
I don't know her story.
00:08:11.32\00:08:13.19
I just need to love people.
00:08:13.19\00:08:15.02
I need to love her, too."
00:08:15.02\00:08:17.06
And that was her message
00:08:17.06\00:08:18.93
that was awakening within her.
00:08:18.93\00:08:20.96
So she took all the treatment
00:08:22.46\00:08:23.80
that she was scheduled to take.
00:08:23.80\00:08:26.50
She changed her lifestyle.
00:08:26.50\00:08:28.64
She did everything
00:08:28.64\00:08:29.64
that she could to
00:08:29.64\00:08:31.94
take care of her health.
00:08:31.94\00:08:34.58
As I said, that was in August.
00:08:34.58\00:08:37.01
At Christmas time, we were
00:08:37.01\00:08:38.21
all together and she said,
00:08:38.21\00:08:40.75
"Let's not spend money on
00:08:40.75\00:08:42.02
ourselves this Christmas.
00:08:42.02\00:08:43.15
Let's make memories.
00:08:43.15\00:08:44.92
Let's do something for
00:08:44.92\00:08:45.95
somebody else."
00:08:45.95\00:08:47.69
She was just in a whole new
00:08:47.69\00:08:49.16
She was just in a whole new
00:08:49.16\00:08:49.82
space of life and wanted to
00:08:49.82\00:08:52.46
do what we could to...
00:08:52.46\00:08:54.10
...connect as a family
00:08:56.10\00:08:57.20
and be together.
00:08:57.20\00:08:58.63
She had a good spirit
00:08:58.63\00:08:59.73
about it all, she...
00:08:59.73\00:09:01.14
...she was struggling,
00:09:02.24\00:09:03.64
but I didn't know it.
00:09:03.64\00:09:05.41
If she cried herself to sleep
00:09:05.41\00:09:07.34
at night, I didn't know that.
00:09:07.34\00:09:09.68
Because with me, with all of us,
00:09:09.68\00:09:11.91
she was always as optimistic as
00:09:11.91\00:09:14.08
she could possibly be.
00:09:14.08\00:09:15.18
Some days were harder than
00:09:15.18\00:09:16.32
others, sure, but
00:09:16.32\00:09:17.59
she had a good spirit.
00:09:17.59\00:09:18.95
But the sad story is that
00:09:20.56\00:09:22.46
13 months after her diagnosis,
00:09:22.46\00:09:24.56
she passed away.
00:09:24.56\00:09:27.13
September of 2019.
00:09:27.13\00:09:29.20
And we were left to
00:09:30.67\00:09:33.77
deal with that.
00:09:33.77\00:09:35.87
Another incident that happened
00:09:35.87\00:09:38.07
about a month before she
00:09:38.07\00:09:39.44
passed away.
00:09:39.44\00:09:41.08
I was awake in the night
00:09:41.08\00:09:42.98
and I was thinking about her,
00:09:42.98\00:09:44.38
of course, and I
00:09:44.38\00:09:45.78
was praying about it and
00:09:45.78\00:09:48.05
another clear message,
00:09:48.05\00:09:49.28
sort of the same as
00:09:49.28\00:09:50.32
the first one, it was just
00:09:50.32\00:09:51.55
a thought that was so
00:09:51.55\00:09:52.69
ringing clear that I knew
00:09:52.69\00:09:54.79
it wasn't from me,
00:09:54.79\00:09:56.69
but I don't know
00:09:56.69\00:09:57.69
that it was a voice.
00:09:57.69\00:09:58.69
It was just so clear.
00:09:58.69\00:10:00.80
And the question was,
00:10:00.80\00:10:03.60
If you had to say goodbye to her
00:10:03.60\00:10:05.60
for a little while,
00:10:05.60\00:10:07.44
but in the end, everything was
00:10:07.44\00:10:09.14
going to be okay,
00:10:09.14\00:10:11.51
would that be all right
00:10:11.51\00:10:12.54
with you?
00:10:12.54\00:10:14.28
And in the context
00:10:14.28\00:10:15.81
of everything,
00:10:15.81\00:10:17.25
that question was
00:10:17.25\00:10:19.95
deep...
00:10:19.95\00:10:20.95
...it was thought provoking,
00:10:21.75\00:10:23.92
but it was also reassuring.
00:10:23.92\00:10:25.59
I took from that that
00:10:27.62\00:10:29.09
we may lose her here...
00:10:29.09\00:10:31.19
...but that it's going to be
00:10:32.19\00:10:34.86
okay in the end.
00:10:34.86\00:10:36.46
And so are you
00:10:36.46\00:10:38.63
able to
00:10:38.63\00:10:40.90
see that on the other side,
00:10:40.90\00:10:43.10
and if you have to
00:10:43.10\00:10:45.91
experience the loss of her
00:10:45.91\00:10:47.58
for a little while,
00:10:47.58\00:10:49.74
could you be peaceful
00:10:49.74\00:10:50.78
about that?
00:10:50.78\00:10:51.78
There was a song that
00:10:53.08\00:10:54.72
came to me during
00:10:54.72\00:10:57.12
her sickness.
00:10:57.12\00:10:58.39
She loved music and she was
00:10:58.39\00:11:00.16
always sending us,
00:11:00.16\00:11:01.86
"Listen to this song,
00:11:01.86\00:11:02.86
listen to this song."
00:11:02.86\00:11:03.89
And it was always some
00:11:03.89\00:11:05.23
uplifting about her
00:11:05.23\00:11:08.06
walk with the Lord and
00:11:08.06\00:11:10.77
this song came to me
00:11:10.77\00:11:12.80
one night I was awake and
00:11:12.80\00:11:14.60
searching for music,
00:11:14.60\00:11:15.97
and I found a song called
00:11:15.97\00:11:18.51
"Even If."
00:11:18.51\00:11:19.81
And it brought me such courage
00:11:19.81\00:11:22.71
because it was a question-
00:11:22.71\00:11:24.58
sorry, it was not a question,
00:11:24.58\00:11:25.95
it was a statement of...
00:11:25.95\00:11:27.92
...somebody saying,
00:11:29.12\00:11:31.25
"Lord, I want You to do this.
00:11:31.25\00:11:33.29
I need You to do this.
00:11:33.29\00:11:35.39
But even if You don't,
00:11:35.39\00:11:37.49
my hope is still
00:11:37.49\00:11:39.09
only in You.
00:11:39.09\00:11:40.43
That's the only place I have."
00:11:40.43\00:11:42.76
And...
00:11:42.76\00:11:43.67
...so when I heard that
00:11:44.57\00:11:46.00
question, if you had to
00:11:46.00\00:11:47.10
give her up for a little while,
00:11:47.10\00:11:49.57
but in the end, everything was
00:11:49.57\00:11:51.11
going to be okay, would that be
00:11:51.11\00:11:53.17
all right with you?
00:11:53.17\00:11:54.41
That song just blends so nicely
00:11:55.74\00:11:57.88
with that question, that
00:11:57.88\00:12:00.45
I can't control everything,
00:12:00.45\00:12:02.75
but even if You don't
00:12:02.75\00:12:04.55
come through and do the things
00:12:04.55\00:12:05.79
that I want You to do,
00:12:05.79\00:12:07.92
I still can only
00:12:07.92\00:12:09.46
cling to You.
00:12:09.46\00:12:10.43
I can still only
00:12:10.43\00:12:12.09
hang onto You.
00:12:12.09\00:12:13.83
So she...
00:12:13.83\00:12:14.93
...passed away at
00:12:16.30\00:12:17.40
40 years of age.
00:12:17.40\00:12:19.13
Not long before she passed away,
00:12:19.13\00:12:20.70
she said...
00:12:20.70\00:12:21.77
"I always hoped that,
00:12:23.47\00:12:24.51
of course, that I would get more
00:12:24.51\00:12:26.04
years, 60s and 70s, at least.
00:12:26.04\00:12:28.88
I guess I'm only gonna get
00:12:30.45\00:12:31.61
about 40.
00:12:31.61\00:12:32.65
But I have watched
00:12:33.52\00:12:35.92
kids pass away at ten."
00:12:35.92\00:12:38.62
And so her work with children...
00:12:38.62\00:12:41.32
...saw loss as
00:12:42.72\00:12:45.86
families went through that
00:12:45.86\00:12:46.86
experience with their children.
00:12:46.86\00:12:48.76
She was aware of those things.
00:12:48.76\00:12:51.27
She was a nurse with feelings,
00:12:51.27\00:12:53.74
but she also had strength.
00:12:53.74\00:12:56.07
And she did her work well.
00:12:56.07\00:12:58.84
And so she sort of took it
00:12:58.84\00:13:01.38
philosophically like
00:13:01.38\00:13:03.38
this is my story,
00:13:03.38\00:13:05.15
and I get 40 years.
00:13:05.15\00:13:07.28
Well, we continued to hope,
00:13:07.28\00:13:08.55
of course,
00:13:08.55\00:13:10.65
that something would change.
00:13:10.65\00:13:12.45
In fact, I still remember even
00:13:12.45\00:13:15.12
the morning
00:13:15.12\00:13:16.29
or the noon, she passed away
00:13:16.29\00:13:17.69
at noon.
00:13:17.69\00:13:18.79
That morning
00:13:18.79\00:13:20.50
I was thinking...
00:13:20.50\00:13:21.83
...That door could open
00:13:23.93\00:13:25.50
into this hospital room
00:13:25.50\00:13:27.57
and a doctor that we've
00:13:27.57\00:13:28.64
never seen before could come in
00:13:28.64\00:13:30.97
and take her by the hand
00:13:30.97\00:13:32.24
and say, "Little girl,
00:13:32.24\00:13:33.94
get up,"
00:13:33.94\00:13:35.81
just like Jesus did.
00:13:35.81\00:13:38.18
I'm saying that that would be
00:13:38.18\00:13:39.35
Jesus.
00:13:39.35\00:13:40.22
He could come in
00:13:40.22\00:13:41.58
and do that if He chose to.
00:13:41.58\00:13:43.12
And I was hoping that He would.
00:13:44.79\00:13:46.59
But it didn't happen.
00:13:48.16\00:13:49.92
And she went to sleep.
00:13:49.92\00:13:51.39
So there's a loss that
00:13:53.03\00:13:55.80
we had no control over.
00:13:55.80\00:13:58.37
We just had to deal with it.
00:13:58.37\00:14:00.57
We just had to work with it.
00:14:00.57\00:14:02.27
And...
00:14:02.27\00:14:03.30
...I recognize that
00:14:03.97\00:14:06.01
I'm not the first father
00:14:06.01\00:14:07.34
or we weren't the first parents
00:14:07.34\00:14:08.61
to lose a child,
00:14:08.61\00:14:10.18
and we won't be the last.
00:14:10.18\00:14:11.85
And it's life on planet Earth.
00:14:11.85\00:14:14.68
It's existing here
00:14:14.68\00:14:16.95
where we don't wanna be
00:14:16.95\00:14:18.89
in a place where we have to
00:14:18.89\00:14:20.69
go to hospitals like that,
00:14:20.69\00:14:22.29
or go to graveyards or
00:14:22.29\00:14:24.09
say goodbye when we don't-
00:14:24.09\00:14:25.23
when we're not ready to.
00:14:25.23\00:14:26.46
It's not fair,
00:14:26.46\00:14:28.96
but it is what it is.
00:14:28.96\00:14:31.27
And so...
00:14:31.27\00:14:32.37
...finding strength
00:14:33.23\00:14:34.30
in God that...
00:14:34.30\00:14:35.57
...even if
00:14:36.84\00:14:38.14
it doesn't change,
00:14:38.14\00:14:39.94
I still cling to You.
00:14:39.94\00:14:41.61
That's what we're left with.
00:14:41.61\00:14:43.61
And that's what's given us
00:14:43.61\00:14:44.88
a hope and a strength.
00:14:44.88\00:14:46.18
>> Bill, I'm so sorry.
00:14:49.18\00:14:50.19
It's very-
00:14:50.19\00:14:51.35
death is very painful.
00:14:51.35\00:14:53.09
And...
00:14:53.09\00:14:54.09
...I know it was very hard
00:14:54.69\00:14:56.02
for me because I lost my dad
00:14:56.02\00:14:58.99
last year in August.
00:14:58.99\00:15:01.40
And...
00:15:01.40\00:15:02.40
...I had to see my mom,
00:15:03.10\00:15:04.77
you know, go through the
00:15:04.77\00:15:05.83
grieving process.
00:15:05.83\00:15:07.67
And I spoke to someone
00:15:07.67\00:15:08.97
and they said, "You know, when
00:15:08.97\00:15:10.57
you lose a spouse,
00:15:10.57\00:15:12.94
it's almost like you have to
00:15:12.94\00:15:14.41
rewrite your future
00:15:14.41\00:15:16.28
because you were looking
00:15:16.28\00:15:17.28
forward to spending
00:15:17.28\00:15:18.31
your future together."
00:15:18.31\00:15:19.35
So you have to change and,
00:15:19.35\00:15:21.58
you know, navigate a new future.
00:15:21.58\00:15:24.12
And then for those of us
00:15:24.79\00:15:26.59
who have lost parents,
00:15:26.59\00:15:28.66
it's like a part of your
00:15:28.66\00:15:30.66
past is gone,
00:15:30.66\00:15:32.23
you know, because they were
00:15:32.23\00:15:33.26
so much a part of your past.
00:15:33.26\00:15:35.63
But when you lose a child,
00:15:35.63\00:15:37.83
it's so painful because
00:15:37.83\00:15:40.37
now your future
00:15:40.37\00:15:42.20
and your past is gone,
00:15:42.20\00:15:43.77
you know?
00:15:43.77\00:15:45.04
And so it's very, very painful.
00:15:45.04\00:15:47.64
>> It's just not right.
00:15:47.64\00:15:50.11
It's not the way it was ever
00:15:50.11\00:15:51.68
designed to be.
00:15:51.68\00:15:52.71
>> Yeah, mm-hmmm.
00:15:52.71\00:15:54.85
But like you said,
00:15:54.85\00:15:55.88
we have hope that
00:15:55.88\00:15:58.85
we're gonna be together again.
00:15:58.85\00:16:01.12
>> Yeah.
00:16:01.12\00:16:01.79
So, René, those two statements,
00:16:01.79\00:16:04.63
"You've been praying for this.
00:16:04.63\00:16:06.03
Trust me, I've got this."
00:16:06.03\00:16:08.03
"If you have to say goodbye
00:16:09.40\00:16:10.67
for a little while,
00:16:10.67\00:16:11.73
but everything's gonna be okay.
00:16:11.73\00:16:13.03
Would that be okay?"
00:16:13.03\00:16:14.37
Those two things
00:16:14.37\00:16:15.37
go together to me,
00:16:15.37\00:16:17.01
telling me that God is saying...
00:16:17.01\00:16:18.81
"...I know what you're gonna
00:16:20.11\00:16:21.14
go through, but hang on.
00:16:21.14\00:16:22.74
I've got this.
00:16:22.74\00:16:23.75
Even if...
00:16:23.75\00:16:24.78
I've got this.
00:16:25.35\00:16:26.31
Everything is in My hands."
00:16:26.31\00:16:28.52
>> Thank you Bill, so...
00:16:31.92\00:16:33.32
...in your book,
00:16:34.36\00:16:36.22
you speak about,
00:16:36.22\00:16:37.69
you know, when we
00:16:37.69\00:16:38.69
experience these losses
00:16:38.69\00:16:40.73
and on this wilderness journey,
00:16:40.73\00:16:42.70
there's some days that
00:16:42.70\00:16:44.47
are really dark
00:16:44.47\00:16:46.37
and some days are less dark,
00:16:46.37\00:16:48.34
and some days are good
00:16:48.34\00:16:50.41
and some days are not so good.
00:16:50.41\00:16:52.77
How did you navigate
00:16:52.77\00:16:54.98
all those changes,
00:16:54.98\00:16:56.31
the ups and downs
00:16:56.31\00:16:57.45
and the roller coaster?
00:16:57.45\00:16:58.98
>> Well,
00:17:00.75\00:17:02.22
René, for me,
00:17:02.22\00:17:03.89
understanding the big picture
00:17:03.89\00:17:06.82
of where...
00:17:06.82\00:17:07.86
...God is and God's plan
00:17:09.29\00:17:11.16
for this world and the fact that
00:17:11.16\00:17:12.59
we're completely off track is
00:17:12.59\00:17:14.10
what keeps me grounded,
00:17:14.10\00:17:16.03
in that He had a plan,
00:17:16.03\00:17:17.93
and He has a plan,
00:17:17.93\00:17:20.37
and we're on a detour
00:17:20.37\00:17:22.00
of His original plan.
00:17:22.00\00:17:23.54
So many philosophical
00:17:26.84\00:17:29.58
or spiritual journeys
00:17:29.58\00:17:32.18
are a quest for
00:17:32.18\00:17:33.75
how to find God.
00:17:33.75\00:17:35.82
"I gotta do this.
00:17:35.82\00:17:37.12
I have to do this.
00:17:37.12\00:17:38.49
I have to go here.
00:17:38.49\00:17:39.72
I have to do these checklists,
00:17:39.72\00:17:42.46
so that I can find God,"
00:17:42.46\00:17:44.63
whereas the Bible tells
00:17:44.63\00:17:46.09
the story of God coming
00:17:46.09\00:17:47.40
to find us
00:17:47.40\00:17:49.26
and to be with us.
00:17:49.26\00:17:50.60
In fact, the Bible says that
00:17:50.60\00:17:52.83
He became flesh and
00:17:52.83\00:17:54.54
dwelt among us.
00:17:54.54\00:17:55.57
Or in some more modern versions
00:17:55.57\00:17:58.34
of the Bible, it says
00:17:58.34\00:17:59.37
He made His home with us.
00:17:59.37\00:18:01.74
So He's telling us by that
00:18:02.51\00:18:04.38
that I know you're going through
00:18:04.38\00:18:06.48
hard times.
00:18:06.48\00:18:07.58
I know that there's grief.
00:18:07.58\00:18:09.38
I know this isn't the way
00:18:09.38\00:18:10.79
I wanted it or you want it,
00:18:10.79\00:18:13.05
but I'm not gonna let you
00:18:13.05\00:18:14.06
do it alone.
00:18:14.06\00:18:15.19
I'm gonna come and be with you.
00:18:15.19\00:18:17.66
So He came to this world
00:18:17.66\00:18:19.73
and He put on flesh,
00:18:19.73\00:18:21.03
and He walked among us,
00:18:21.03\00:18:22.10
and He got tired, and He got
00:18:22.10\00:18:23.53
sleepy, and He got hungry,
00:18:23.53\00:18:25.07
and He was bullied,
00:18:25.07\00:18:27.67
and He was...
00:18:27.67\00:18:28.97
...harassed and
00:18:29.64\00:18:30.87
all the things that
00:18:30.87\00:18:32.61
go through life.
00:18:32.61\00:18:33.61
And His loved ones died.
00:18:33.61\00:18:36.41
And He saw friends that
00:18:36.41\00:18:38.71
their loved ones died
00:18:38.71\00:18:39.91
and He experienced death.
00:18:39.91\00:18:42.15
So He knows what we're
00:18:42.15\00:18:43.18
going through.
00:18:43.18\00:18:44.25
And He's saying,
00:18:44.25\00:18:45.92
"You're not gonna do this alone.
00:18:45.92\00:18:47.86
I'm here.
00:18:47.86\00:18:49.29
I'm with you.
00:18:49.29\00:18:50.29
I get it."
00:18:50.29\00:18:52.19
And...
00:18:52.19\00:18:53.16
...He resurrected
00:18:53.63\00:18:55.50
some people.
00:18:55.50\00:18:56.63
Not everybody that died,
00:18:56.63\00:18:58.17
but He resurrected some.
00:18:58.17\00:19:00.04
Which tells us,
00:19:00.04\00:19:01.47
"I have the ability to do that.
00:19:01.47\00:19:04.04
So when I promise you
00:19:04.04\00:19:05.31
that your girl will come back,"
00:19:05.31\00:19:07.41
He's not saying,
00:19:07.41\00:19:09.11
"You can hope that I'm
00:19:09.11\00:19:10.35
strong enough to do this."
00:19:10.35\00:19:11.58
He's already proved that
00:19:11.58\00:19:12.95
He is strong enough to do that.
00:19:12.95\00:19:15.32
And so
00:19:16.25\00:19:18.05
I journey through
00:19:18.05\00:19:20.36
this part of
00:19:20.36\00:19:21.96
our lives
00:19:21.96\00:19:23.76
with a courage and a strength
00:19:23.76\00:19:25.46
that Jesus identifies with me.
00:19:25.46\00:19:27.76
He's not asking me to come to
00:19:29.40\00:19:30.67
heaven and find Him,
00:19:30.67\00:19:31.77
He came from heaven to earth
00:19:31.77\00:19:33.67
to show Himself and to
00:19:33.67\00:19:36.27
give Himself and to say,
00:19:36.27\00:19:38.97
"Bill, trust Me,
00:19:38.97\00:19:40.28
I've got this."
00:19:40.28\00:19:42.01
That's what has given me
00:19:42.01\00:19:44.38
a strength beyond anything else.
00:19:44.38\00:19:46.68
And I think also
00:19:46.68\00:19:48.48
I've already
00:19:48.48\00:19:49.78
sort of touched on it, but
00:19:49.78\00:19:51.85
if we can step back from
00:19:51.85\00:19:54.36
the graveside of our loved ones
00:19:54.36\00:19:56.39
or the hospital bed of our
00:19:56.39\00:19:57.93
loved ones, and instead of
00:19:57.93\00:20:00.13
shaking our fist at God
00:20:00.13\00:20:01.53
and saying, "Why don't You
00:20:01.53\00:20:03.23
hear my prayer?"
00:20:03.23\00:20:06.17
step back one step and say,
00:20:06.17\00:20:08.07
"It's bigger than me.
00:20:08.07\00:20:09.80
It's bigger than my family.
00:20:09.80\00:20:12.07
It's bigger than my Kristen.
00:20:12.07\00:20:14.14
It's...
00:20:14.14\00:20:15.08
It's a world gone wrong.
00:20:15.78\00:20:18.11
It's a...
00:20:18.11\00:20:19.18
...chaotic mess here.
00:20:20.38\00:20:22.38
And He's going to fix it."
00:20:22.38\00:20:25.19
So He told a parable of a...
00:20:25.19\00:20:27.46
...a man who planted seeds
00:20:29.26\00:20:30.53
in his field,
00:20:30.53\00:20:31.89
and his friends came and said,
00:20:31.89\00:20:33.73
"I thought you planted
00:20:33.73\00:20:34.76
good seeds in your field."
00:20:34.76\00:20:35.80
"Well, I did."
00:20:35.80\00:20:37.20
"Well, there's weeds coming up."
00:20:37.20\00:20:39.70
And he said,
00:20:39.70\00:20:41.40
"An enemy did this."
00:20:41.40\00:20:42.80
So when He created the world,
00:20:44.21\00:20:45.64
He created it perfect,
00:20:45.64\00:20:46.81
He created it for...
00:20:46.81\00:20:48.28
...for us to live forever,
00:20:49.24\00:20:50.91
to never see death,
00:20:50.91\00:20:52.01
to never see cancer,
00:20:52.01\00:20:53.95
to never see crash,
00:20:53.95\00:20:55.95
to never see any disease.
00:20:55.95\00:20:57.95
But an enemy came and deceived
00:20:59.65\00:21:01.82
and got us going on
00:21:01.82\00:21:03.53
the wrong direction.
00:21:03.53\00:21:06.06
And, so they said, "Well,
00:21:06.06\00:21:07.56
should we pull the weeds out?"
00:21:07.56\00:21:09.60
"No, let them grow
00:21:09.60\00:21:11.30
till the end, and in the end,
00:21:11.30\00:21:12.87
we're gonna put the weeds
00:21:12.87\00:21:13.97
in one place
00:21:13.97\00:21:14.97
and the wheat in another place,
00:21:14.97\00:21:16.94
and then everything will be
00:21:16.94\00:21:18.14
separated forever."
00:21:18.14\00:21:19.54
So I'm, we are,
00:21:20.68\00:21:23.24
all of us,
00:21:23.24\00:21:24.71
waiting for that day
00:21:24.71\00:21:26.45
when one day
00:21:26.45\00:21:27.45
it's going to be all over.
00:21:27.45\00:21:29.58
But in the meantime,
00:21:29.58\00:21:31.12
there may be another trip
00:21:31.12\00:21:32.82
to a graveyard.
00:21:32.82\00:21:34.16
There may be another trip
00:21:34.16\00:21:35.39
to a hospital.
00:21:35.39\00:21:36.52
We don't know, we don't know.
00:21:38.29\00:21:41.20
Our our greatest strength
00:21:41.20\00:21:43.23
would be to just to hang on
00:21:43.23\00:21:44.53
to the one who said,
00:21:44.53\00:21:46.20
"Trust Me,
00:21:46.20\00:21:47.60
I've got this."
00:21:47.60\00:21:49.20
That's what I think
00:21:49.20\00:21:50.67
the message for us that Jesus
00:21:50.67\00:21:53.17
wanted to bring to us is,
00:21:53.17\00:21:54.71
"I'm with you.
00:21:54.71\00:21:55.88
It's not easy.
00:21:55.88\00:21:57.68
There's gonna be tears.
00:21:57.68\00:21:59.11
I'm with you.
00:21:59.11\00:22:00.52
But one day
00:22:00.52\00:22:02.65
all tears will be wiped away."
00:22:02.65\00:22:04.52
And we just wait for that.
00:22:04.52\00:22:07.12
>> Thank you, Bill.
00:22:07.12\00:22:08.09
This grief and this
00:22:08.09\00:22:10.03
sorrow, it goes on,
00:22:10.03\00:22:12.59
and we're in this
00:22:12.59\00:22:13.63
wilderness experience.
00:22:13.63\00:22:15.10
Does it ever come to an end?
00:22:15.10\00:22:16.67
And when do we know
00:22:16.67\00:22:18.60
that it's come to an end?
00:22:18.60\00:22:20.04
>> Yeah.
00:22:20.04\00:22:21.37
My personal
00:22:21.37\00:22:22.34
wilderness journey...
00:22:22.34\00:22:23.54
...I don't know
00:22:24.67\00:22:25.74
when it comes to an end.
00:22:25.74\00:22:26.81
I...
00:22:26.81\00:22:27.71
...entered this, due to
00:22:28.51\00:22:30.25
experiences in my life,
00:22:30.25\00:22:31.55
I'm going, navigating not quite
00:22:31.55\00:22:34.05
the life I expected
00:22:34.05\00:22:35.22
and wanted, chose,
00:22:35.22\00:22:36.92
but by choices,
00:22:36.92\00:22:39.69
I ended up where
00:22:39.69\00:22:41.29
I'm learning these lessons that
00:22:41.29\00:22:43.46
I'm experiencing.
00:22:43.46\00:22:45.23
I don't know when that actually
00:22:45.23\00:22:46.83
ends, because I think that
00:22:46.83\00:22:48.13
we are all learning lessons
00:22:48.13\00:22:50.90
all the time
00:22:50.90\00:22:52.33
from everything that we...
00:22:52.33\00:22:53.94
...experience.
00:22:55.77\00:22:57.17
Moses had a distinct end to his.
00:22:57.17\00:22:59.27
God came to him
00:22:59.27\00:23:00.31
at a burning bush and said,
00:23:00.31\00:23:02.11
"I have a job for you to do and
00:23:02.11\00:23:03.31
it's not here in the wilderness.
00:23:03.31\00:23:04.95
Go to Egypt."
00:23:04.95\00:23:06.11
And he...
00:23:06.11\00:23:07.25
...wasn't sure that that was
00:23:08.25\00:23:09.45
what he wanted to do
00:23:09.45\00:23:10.45
at that point, but...
00:23:10.45\00:23:11.72
...that was a distinct end
00:23:12.82\00:23:14.22
to his.
00:23:14.22\00:23:15.22
I'm not sure
00:23:15.22\00:23:16.59
where the distinct end
00:23:16.59\00:23:17.93
to my journey is,
00:23:17.93\00:23:19.73
but I know that for all of us,
00:23:19.73\00:23:21.26
for you, for your family,
00:23:21.26\00:23:22.86
for everyone watching,
00:23:22.86\00:23:24.80
for everyone in the world,
00:23:24.80\00:23:27.74
the wilderness of planet Earth
00:23:27.74\00:23:30.61
will come to an end.
00:23:30.61\00:23:31.77
Jesus promised that, "I will
00:23:31.77\00:23:34.24
come again and I will
00:23:34.24\00:23:36.01
receive you unto Myself."
00:23:36.01\00:23:38.08
And the Bible tells us
00:23:38.08\00:23:40.52
happily that
00:23:40.52\00:23:42.95
there is a new place,
00:23:42.95\00:23:44.79
a new future,
00:23:44.79\00:23:45.92
and we will put on immortality,
00:23:45.92\00:23:48.02
and we will live forever.
00:23:48.02\00:23:50.19
So we enter this
00:23:50.19\00:23:53.03
journey of
00:23:53.03\00:23:55.83
life on planet Earth
00:23:55.83\00:23:57.00
not being the way we wanted it,
00:23:57.00\00:23:59.37
but there is an end to that.
00:23:59.37\00:24:00.70
So that's the ultimate end
00:24:00.70\00:24:02.14
to it all.
00:24:02.14\00:24:03.27
I'd like to think that
00:24:03.27\00:24:04.34
there would be a day when we
00:24:04.34\00:24:05.37
get to a certain age where
00:24:05.37\00:24:07.01
all pain goes away.
00:24:07.01\00:24:09.78
But I am not sure that
00:24:09.78\00:24:11.48
that's realistic.
00:24:11.48\00:24:13.18
>> Thank you for that.
00:24:13.18\00:24:14.15
Any final thoughts
00:24:14.15\00:24:16.35
that you have for
00:24:16.35\00:24:17.95
our viewers
00:24:17.95\00:24:19.39
regarding those who may be
00:24:19.39\00:24:21.12
right now going through grief
00:24:21.12\00:24:22.86
and loss.
00:24:22.86\00:24:24.13
What would you say to them?
00:24:24.13\00:24:25.69
>> I would say two things.
00:24:25.69\00:24:27.46
Number one, God sees you.
00:24:27.46\00:24:29.26
He knows you.
00:24:30.33\00:24:31.33
He knows what you're
00:24:31.33\00:24:32.40
experiencing.
00:24:32.40\00:24:33.77
I like to say He knows your DNA,
00:24:33.77\00:24:36.37
and He knows your address,
00:24:36.37\00:24:38.47
and He knows your feelings,
00:24:38.47\00:24:39.71
and He knows your emotions.
00:24:39.71\00:24:42.44
And He says, "I get it."
00:24:42.44\00:24:44.58
I went there to be with you.
00:24:44.58\00:24:46.35
I journeyed
00:24:46.35\00:24:48.88
that journey with you,
00:24:48.88\00:24:50.39
and I'm still with you today."
00:24:50.39\00:24:52.39
That's one thing,
00:24:52.39\00:24:53.42
that you are not alone.
00:24:53.42\00:24:55.39
And then secondly,
00:24:55.39\00:24:56.73
"I have a plan," God says,
00:24:56.73\00:24:58.46
"I have a plan.
00:24:58.46\00:24:59.83
One day
00:24:59.83\00:25:01.03
it's all gonna be behind us,
00:25:01.03\00:25:02.60
and it'll be only the future,
00:25:02.60\00:25:04.20
and we'll look back and think,
00:25:04.20\00:25:06.77
"Well, here we are.
00:25:06.77\00:25:07.87
I guess that chapter is over
00:25:07.87\00:25:09.50
and this is the new one.
00:25:09.50\00:25:10.67
Let's continue and keep going."
00:25:10.67\00:25:13.04
So both ways, God gives us hope.
00:25:13.04\00:25:15.84
I'm with you
00:25:15.84\00:25:17.55
and it's going to get better.
00:25:17.55\00:25:19.85
>> Thank you.
00:25:19.85\00:25:21.25
>> Thank you so much
00:25:21.25\00:25:22.28
for that, Bill.
00:25:22.28\00:25:23.75
So we have come to
00:25:23.75\00:25:25.62
the end of our program
00:25:25.62\00:25:27.52
with you, but before we
00:25:27.52\00:25:29.49
let you go, I wonder if you
00:25:29.49\00:25:31.29
could pray for our viewers?
00:25:31.29\00:25:33.46
There may be someone
00:25:33.46\00:25:34.56
who is experiencing pain,
00:25:34.56\00:25:37.17
who is grieving a loss, who...
00:25:37.17\00:25:39.97
...has a loved one that is sick
00:25:41.14\00:25:43.37
and that is not doing well.
00:25:43.37\00:25:44.97
So could you please
00:25:44.97\00:25:46.44
pray for them?
00:25:46.44\00:25:47.44
>> I will.
00:25:47.44\00:25:48.48
Father in heaven, thank You
00:25:48.48\00:25:49.88
so much that
00:25:49.88\00:25:51.58
when we go through dark moments,
00:25:51.58\00:25:54.05
wilderness valleys,
00:25:54.05\00:25:56.38
that we don't do it
00:25:56.38\00:25:58.42
by ourselves.
00:25:58.42\00:26:00.12
You are a God who loves to...
00:26:00.12\00:26:02.69
...be with...
00:26:03.99\00:26:05.29
...dwell among us,
00:26:06.46\00:26:08.13
experience what we experience...
00:26:08.13\00:26:10.37
...and assure us that
00:26:11.80\00:26:13.23
we are not alone.
00:26:13.23\00:26:14.47
So to anyone today
00:26:14.47\00:26:16.50
who doesn't know how to get up
00:26:16.50\00:26:18.34
in the morning because of loss
00:26:18.34\00:26:19.94
and because of fear and
00:26:19.94\00:26:22.61
because of grief,
00:26:22.61\00:26:24.08
I just pray for a measure of
00:26:24.08\00:26:25.61
strength from Your hand to them
00:26:25.61\00:26:27.75
that they will be able to say,
00:26:27.75\00:26:30.15
"Even if it doesn't work out
00:26:30.15\00:26:32.65
or hasn't worked out
00:26:32.65\00:26:34.06
the way I want,
00:26:34.06\00:26:36.02
my hope is still in You
00:26:36.02\00:26:37.49
because You are the one that's
00:26:37.49\00:26:38.89
going to bring an end to this.
00:26:38.89\00:26:40.86
We pray, Father, that that day
00:26:40.86\00:26:42.33
would be sooner than later.
00:26:42.33\00:26:43.80
We are tired.
00:26:43.80\00:26:45.23
We are ready to be with You.
00:26:45.23\00:26:46.97
May it happen soon.
00:26:46.97\00:26:48.24
Thank You for the promise.
00:26:48.24\00:26:49.97
In Jesus' name, amen.
00:26:49.97\00:26:51.77
>> Amen, amen.
00:26:51.77\00:26:53.58
Bill, thank you once again
00:26:53.58\00:26:55.08
for joining us on
00:26:55.08\00:26:56.08
It Is Written Canada.
00:26:56.08\00:26:57.31
>> My pleasure to be here.
00:26:58.31\00:27:00.08
>> Friends, whenever life
00:27:03.25\00:27:04.92
doesn't make sense or you're
00:27:04.92\00:27:06.76
feeling down and discouraged
00:27:06.76\00:27:09.12
or even overwhelmed with grief,
00:27:09.12\00:27:11.86
we recommend and you pick up
00:27:11.86\00:27:13.86
this little book,
00:27:13.86\00:27:15.23
Help In Daily Living.
00:27:15.23\00:27:18.13
>> If you're feeling like
00:27:18.13\00:27:19.50
the wheels are falling off
00:27:19.50\00:27:22.00
and your life is
00:27:22.00\00:27:23.07
becoming unglued,
00:27:23.07\00:27:24.11
or if your wheels are
00:27:24.11\00:27:25.67
simply spinning and you're
00:27:25.67\00:27:27.41
not getting anywhere,
00:27:27.41\00:27:28.81
you will find solutions
00:27:28.81\00:27:30.88
in this little book,
00:27:30.88\00:27:32.05
our free offer,
00:27:32.05\00:27:33.11
Help In Daily Living.
00:27:33.11\00:27:34.92
>> Before you go,
00:27:36.65\00:27:37.89
we would like to thank
00:27:37.89\00:27:39.75
all of you who have
00:27:39.75\00:27:40.82
supported the ministry of
00:27:40.82\00:27:42.19
It Is Written Canada
00:27:42.19\00:27:44.03
with your prayers and
00:27:44.03\00:27:45.86
financial contributions.
00:27:45.86\00:27:48.23
Without your support,
00:27:48.23\00:27:50.30
this television ministry
00:27:50.30\00:27:52.43
could not have reached
00:27:52.43\00:27:53.94
so many people
00:27:53.94\00:27:55.60
for so many decades.
00:27:55.60\00:27:58.01
>> Yes, thank you.
00:27:58.01\00:27:59.47
And we would like to invite you
00:27:59.47\00:28:01.71
to follow us on Instagram and
00:28:01.71\00:28:03.58
Facebook and subscribe to
00:28:03.58\00:28:05.21
our YouTube channel,
00:28:05.21\00:28:06.61
and also listen to our podcasts.
00:28:06.61\00:28:09.12
And if you go to our website,
00:28:09.12\00:28:10.79
you can see our latest programs.
00:28:10.79\00:28:13.66
>> Friends, if you want the
00:28:17.33\00:28:18.83
kind of healing
00:28:18.83\00:28:20.03
Pastor Bill Spangler
00:28:20.03\00:28:21.46
experienced, we recommend
00:28:21.46\00:28:23.73
you open the Bible
00:28:23.73\00:28:25.87
where it is recorded that
00:28:25.87\00:28:27.54
Jesus found His assurance
00:28:27.54\00:28:29.44
to defeat the devil
00:28:29.44\00:28:31.24
through the Word of His Father
00:28:31.24\00:28:33.34
when He declared...
00:28:33.34\00:28:34.88
[calm music]
00:28:46.62\00:28:49.62
¤¤
00:28:49.62\00:28:52.66