associate grief
00:00:01.23\00:00:03.70
with death.
00:00:03.70\00:00:05.97
But we know that there are over
00:00:05.97\00:00:07.54
43 different types of grief.
00:00:07.54\00:00:10.47
So when you actually put
00:00:10.47\00:00:11.84
all of them together,
00:00:11.84\00:00:12.81
that's compounded grief.
00:00:12.81\00:00:14.58
And all of that can happen
00:00:14.58\00:00:16.08
in a very short period of time.
00:00:16.08\00:00:18.11
[theme music]
00:00:18.11\00:00:21.08
¤¤
00:00:21.08\00:00:24.09
[gentle music]
00:00:56.22\00:00:59.19
¤¤
00:00:59.19\00:01:02.16
>> Welcome back to
00:01:02.59\00:01:03.99
It Is Written Canada.
00:01:03.99\00:01:05.66
Thank you for joining us.
00:01:05.66\00:01:08.13
In 1969,
00:01:08.13\00:01:09.83
Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
00:01:09.83\00:01:12.23
first identified the
00:01:12.23\00:01:13.87
five stages of dying
00:01:13.87\00:01:15.70
in her groundbreaking book
00:01:15.70\00:01:17.74
on death and dying.
00:01:17.74\00:01:20.04
As a psychiatrist, she saw that
00:01:20.04\00:01:22.18
patients who were dying
00:01:22.18\00:01:23.61
appeared to go through
00:01:23.61\00:01:25.11
common experiences
00:01:25.11\00:01:26.98
or stages.
00:01:26.98\00:01:29.22
Working with David Kessler,
00:01:29.22\00:01:31.39
these five experiences were
00:01:31.39\00:01:33.29
adapted to people
00:01:33.29\00:01:35.26
who are grieving.
00:01:35.26\00:01:37.16
>> The five stages of grief they
00:01:37.16\00:01:38.79
identified are, number one,
00:01:38.79\00:01:40.23
denial, shock, and disbelief
00:01:40.23\00:01:42.30
that the death has occurred.
00:01:42.30\00:01:43.67
Number two, anger that
00:01:43.67\00:01:45.27
someone we love is
00:01:45.27\00:01:46.80
no longer here with us.
00:01:46.80\00:01:49.14
Number three, bargaining.
00:01:49.14\00:01:50.51
All the what ifs
00:01:50.51\00:01:51.54
and the regrets.
00:01:51.54\00:01:52.54
And then fourthly, depression,
00:01:52.54\00:01:54.31
sadness from the loss.
00:01:54.31\00:01:55.41
And finally, acceptance.
00:01:55.41\00:01:56.78
Acknowledging the reality
00:01:56.78\00:01:58.71
of the loss.
00:01:58.71\00:02:00.85
>> Today we will be talking to
00:02:00.85\00:02:02.65
Pastor Emile Maxi, a certified
00:02:02.65\00:02:05.59
grief recovery specialist.
00:02:05.59\00:02:08.16
>> Pastor Emile Maxi, thank you
00:02:08.16\00:02:09.92
so much for joining us on
00:02:09.92\00:02:11.26
It Is Written Canada today.
00:02:11.26\00:02:12.63
>> It is a pleasure.
00:02:12.63\00:02:14.10
>> Pastor Maxi,
00:02:14.10\00:02:15.03
I want to begin with those
00:02:15.03\00:02:16.03
five stages of grieving.
00:02:16.03\00:02:17.13
Is it true that people
00:02:17.13\00:02:18.63
go through them in a
00:02:18.63\00:02:20.44
consecutive order?
00:02:20.44\00:02:21.67
They start off with anger and
00:02:21.67\00:02:23.97
then they're at denial
00:02:23.97\00:02:25.91
and then bargaining, depression,
00:02:25.91\00:02:27.71
and then finally acceptance.
00:02:27.71\00:02:29.48
Is it pretty neat like that?
00:02:29.48\00:02:31.45
>> No, not quite.
00:02:32.65\00:02:35.38
In fact,
00:02:35.38\00:02:37.35
the Five Stages of Grief
00:02:37.35\00:02:39.25
actually helps us
00:02:39.25\00:02:40.99
to have a sense of the
00:02:40.99\00:02:42.09
dynamics of grief.
00:02:42.09\00:02:43.93
But...
00:02:43.93\00:02:44.83
...we all experience grief
00:02:45.73\00:02:47.50
in different ways, so therefore
00:02:47.50\00:02:49.30
we do not
00:02:49.30\00:02:51.37
follow the
00:02:51.37\00:02:54.00
grieving method based on
00:02:54.00\00:02:57.01
the stages as proposed.
00:02:57.01\00:02:59.74
>> Pastor Emile,
00:03:00.21\00:03:01.21
does everyone experience
00:03:01.21\00:03:04.21
some kind of grief?
00:03:04.21\00:03:06.55
Because they are some people
00:03:06.55\00:03:08.25
that have never lost
00:03:08.25\00:03:09.48
a loved one before.
00:03:09.48\00:03:10.79
>> That's a good question.
00:03:12.75\00:03:13.82
Quite often we
00:03:13.82\00:03:14.82
associate grief
00:03:14.82\00:03:17.19
with death.
00:03:17.19\00:03:19.43
But for those of us who are
00:03:19.43\00:03:20.66
associated with the
00:03:20.66\00:03:21.86
Grief Recovery Institute
00:03:21.86\00:03:24.50
of the U.S., we know that there
00:03:24.50\00:03:26.00
are over 43 different types
00:03:26.00\00:03:28.24
of grief.
00:03:28.24\00:03:29.74
So just a few of them...
00:03:29.74\00:03:32.61
...separation is one,
00:03:33.48\00:03:35.64
divorce is another,
00:03:35.64\00:03:37.48
moving is another,
00:03:37.48\00:03:40.15
loss of job is another...
00:03:40.15\00:03:43.02
...loss of health is another,
00:03:44.42\00:03:46.52
retirement is another.
00:03:46.52\00:03:49.29
So when you look at the
00:03:49.29\00:03:51.13
43 different types of grief,
00:03:51.13\00:03:54.60
then it's quite extensive.
00:03:54.60\00:03:56.90
>> So could a person go through
00:03:56.90\00:03:58.43
a compound grief experience,
00:03:58.43\00:04:00.60
like one would trigger
00:04:00.60\00:04:01.64
a whole lot of other
00:04:01.64\00:04:02.70
experiences and you could
00:04:02.70\00:04:04.27
have them all within a within
00:04:04.27\00:04:06.01
a short space of time?
00:04:06.01\00:04:07.58
>> Absolutely.
00:04:07.58\00:04:09.58
In fact, let me say, somebody
00:04:09.58\00:04:11.55
who is going through divorce,
00:04:11.55\00:04:13.72
for instance, would experience
00:04:13.72\00:04:15.88
a compound grief as a result of
00:04:15.88\00:04:18.25
the divorce would be one grief
00:04:18.25\00:04:19.85
and having to leave that home...
00:04:19.85\00:04:21.66
...is another, and having to
00:04:22.92\00:04:24.43
relocate is another,
00:04:24.43\00:04:26.39
and having to live
00:04:26.39\00:04:28.90
a new life without a spouse
00:04:28.90\00:04:31.00
and possibly
00:04:31.00\00:04:33.54
the children,
00:04:33.54\00:04:34.60
without the children,
00:04:34.60\00:04:35.64
that is another.
00:04:35.64\00:04:37.57
So when you actually
00:04:37.57\00:04:38.57
put all of them together,
00:04:38.57\00:04:39.84
that's compounded grief
00:04:39.84\00:04:41.61
and all of that can happen
00:04:41.61\00:04:43.21
in a very short period of time.
00:04:43.21\00:04:45.15
>> So as a grief recovery
00:04:45.15\00:04:46.35
specialist, how would you
00:04:46.35\00:04:47.48
deal with compounded grief?
00:04:47.48\00:04:49.28
>> When you actually look at
00:04:50.72\00:04:52.39
compounded grief because it is
00:04:52.39\00:04:54.19
so complicated and complex,
00:04:54.19\00:04:56.29
so it is impossible to
00:04:56.29\00:04:58.69
deal with all
00:04:58.69\00:05:00.10
at the same time.
00:05:00.10\00:05:01.60
So within the context of
00:05:01.60\00:05:03.87
the grief recovery method...
00:05:03.87\00:05:06.07
...for us as grief recovery
00:05:07.00\00:05:08.34
specialist, we would look at...
00:05:08.34\00:05:10.14
...over a period of time.
00:05:11.81\00:05:13.11
Right?
00:05:13.11\00:05:13.71
And...
00:05:13.71\00:05:14.58
...not once,
00:05:14.94\00:05:17.05
but all the time.
00:05:17.05\00:05:18.25
So we would begin with
00:05:18.25\00:05:20.12
what we call the
00:05:20.12\00:05:21.12
dawn of conscious memory,
00:05:21.12\00:05:23.02
which is translated by way of a
00:05:23.02\00:05:25.15
Loss History Graph.
00:05:25.15\00:05:26.25
It is a line
00:05:26.25\00:05:28.26
that the person would draw,
00:05:28.26\00:05:29.79
and on that line
00:05:29.79\00:05:30.83
a person would put the year
00:05:30.83\00:05:33.16
that the losses occurred
00:05:33.16\00:05:35.03
and for each year the person
00:05:35.03\00:05:37.33
would, or for each loss,
00:05:37.33\00:05:38.73
the person would draw a line.
00:05:38.73\00:05:41.07
The length of the line
00:05:41.07\00:05:42.30
would determine the
00:05:42.30\00:05:43.30
intensity of the loss.
00:05:43.30\00:05:45.57
Right?
00:05:45.57\00:05:46.34
And based on that,
00:05:47.08\00:05:47.84
And based on that,
00:05:47.84\00:05:48.31
we address one at a time
00:05:48.44\00:05:50.88
until we get to help the person
00:05:50.88\00:05:52.71
to address all the
00:05:52.71\00:05:54.65
"unresolved emotional issues"
00:05:54.65\00:05:56.35
associated to that grief.
00:05:56.35\00:05:57.99
>> So you start with
00:05:57.99\00:05:58.99
the longest line.
00:05:58.99\00:06:00.09
You start with the
00:06:00.09\00:06:01.16
most intense grief first.
00:06:01.16\00:06:03.29
>> That is correct.
00:06:03.29\00:06:04.49
>> So, Pastor Emile,
00:06:05.39\00:06:07.40
I guess the question for
00:06:07.40\00:06:08.60
Mike and I is why?
00:06:08.60\00:06:11.17
Why did you become
00:06:11.17\00:06:13.40
a certified grief recovery
00:06:13.40\00:06:15.47
specialist?
00:06:15.47\00:06:16.60
>> Because all of us,
00:06:18.04\00:06:19.54
we experience grief.
00:06:19.54\00:06:21.21
All of us, 100% of us.
00:06:23.08\00:06:25.65
So for me,
00:06:25.65\00:06:27.58
it was based on
00:06:27.58\00:06:29.08
all the issues that I
00:06:29.08\00:06:31.22
had gone through in my life.
00:06:31.22\00:06:32.99
And, most of which...
00:06:32.99\00:06:35.36
...actually, I would say,
00:06:36.66\00:06:39.63
were inflicted on me
00:06:39.63\00:06:41.00
by my father.
00:06:41.00\00:06:42.40
Right?
00:06:42.40\00:06:43.37
And so when I
00:06:43.37\00:06:46.33
was growing up,
00:06:46.33\00:06:48.04
I went through a lot.
00:06:48.04\00:06:50.47
From, I was
00:06:50.47\00:06:52.87
five years old when I
00:06:52.87\00:06:53.91
lost my mother
00:06:53.91\00:06:54.98
and my father went into...
00:06:54.98\00:06:56.78
...addiction, by drinking
00:06:58.15\00:07:00.85
and alcohol
00:07:00.85\00:07:02.38
and smoking
00:07:02.38\00:07:04.59
and all the emotional pain that
00:07:04.59\00:07:06.65
he inflicted on me.
00:07:06.65\00:07:08.46
So I grew up way into my
00:07:08.46\00:07:10.93
adulthood with all these
00:07:10.93\00:07:12.83
unresolved emotional issues
00:07:12.83\00:07:15.70
in my life that caused grief.
00:07:15.70\00:07:18.70
And one thing that is
00:07:18.70\00:07:19.97
very important in
00:07:19.97\00:07:21.00
grief recovery, we say,
00:07:21.00\00:07:23.61
because we are all traumatized
00:07:23.61\00:07:25.71
by one way or another,
00:07:25.71\00:07:28.54
so we say
00:07:28.54\00:07:30.65
so we say
00:07:30.65\00:07:31.58
trauma is what happened,
00:07:31.58\00:07:33.78
grief is what lingers.
00:07:33.78\00:07:35.62
So as a result of that,
00:07:36.69\00:07:37.89
we are all living with grief.
00:07:37.89\00:07:39.72
So in my case, because I was
00:07:39.72\00:07:41.92
living with grief and
00:07:41.92\00:07:43.86
causing me to be grieving
00:07:43.86\00:07:46.03
all the time, you know,
00:07:46.03\00:07:47.50
as much as you would not
00:07:47.50\00:07:48.53
be able to tell externally,
00:07:48.53\00:07:50.30
but inside I was dying.
00:07:50.30\00:07:52.73
So I had to find a way to
00:07:52.73\00:07:54.60
deal with my own
00:07:54.60\00:07:56.24
personal issues.
00:07:56.24\00:07:58.27
And I went through
00:07:58.27\00:07:59.77
grief recovery,
00:07:59.77\00:08:01.24
not to help others,
00:08:01.24\00:08:02.44
but to help myself.
00:08:02.44\00:08:03.78
>> So your dad's drinking
00:08:04.95\00:08:07.88
and his response
00:08:07.88\00:08:09.38
to his own grief
00:08:09.38\00:08:10.85
caused him to take out that
00:08:10.85\00:08:12.59
pain that he was feeling on you.
00:08:12.59\00:08:14.42
>> That is correct.
00:08:15.22\00:08:17.03
When you actually look at it,
00:08:17.03\00:08:18.46
it is that when we have
00:08:18.46\00:08:19.63
unresolved emotional issues,
00:08:19.63\00:08:21.83
when we don't deal with them,
00:08:21.83\00:08:23.40
when we don't address them,
00:08:23.40\00:08:24.70
we end up
00:08:24.70\00:08:26.17
inflicting pain
00:08:26.17\00:08:28.30
on others.
00:08:28.30\00:08:29.47
Like in the case of my father,
00:08:29.47\00:08:31.27
because he had his own
00:08:31.27\00:08:33.07
unresolved emotional issues
00:08:33.07\00:08:35.21
and he did not know how to
00:08:35.21\00:08:36.95
deal with them, so therefore he
00:08:36.95\00:08:38.78
inflicted them on me.
00:08:38.78\00:08:40.88
So...
00:08:40.88\00:08:41.92
And again, that's where we talk
00:08:42.68\00:08:44.12
about intergenerational trauma.
00:08:44.12\00:08:46.39
So if I am not careful,
00:08:46.39\00:08:48.72
so the likelihood of me
00:08:48.72\00:08:50.33
inflicting the same
00:08:50.33\00:08:52.16
emotional pain on my children
00:08:52.16\00:08:54.50
would become greater.
00:08:54.50\00:08:56.33
So as a result of that,
00:08:56.33\00:08:58.77
I had to be able to look at that
00:08:58.77\00:09:01.34
square in the face and
00:09:01.34\00:09:02.80
realize that, yes,
00:09:02.80\00:09:05.37
I was
00:09:05.37\00:09:08.34
suffering,
00:09:08.34\00:09:09.74
emotionally suffering.
00:09:09.74\00:09:11.68
And that affected the
00:09:12.71\00:09:13.78
quality of my life,
00:09:13.78\00:09:15.42
and I had to deal with them
00:09:15.42\00:09:17.59
for myself.
00:09:17.59\00:09:18.72
>> Before...
00:09:21.09\00:09:22.39
...Emile did the grief recovery
00:09:23.49\00:09:26.43
course...
00:09:26.43\00:09:27.46
...I would say that...
00:09:29.53\00:09:31.10
...he buried himself in
00:09:32.53\00:09:33.87
a lot of work in order to cover
00:09:33.87\00:09:36.10
all of that
00:09:36.10\00:09:38.64
grief that he was going through.
00:09:38.64\00:09:41.11
He thought that work was
00:09:41.11\00:09:42.48
more important than spending
00:09:42.48\00:09:44.65
a lot of time
00:09:44.65\00:09:46.25
with the kids and family.
00:09:46.25\00:09:48.68
>> You went into grief recovery
00:09:49.62\00:09:51.55
for yourself.
00:09:51.55\00:09:52.85
And how are you different?
00:09:52.85\00:09:55.36
I mean, if you were to
00:09:55.36\00:09:56.39
assess yourself,
00:09:56.39\00:09:57.43
how were you different before
00:09:57.43\00:09:58.69
and now, after?
00:09:58.69\00:10:00.06
>> You know, one of the terms
00:10:00.73\00:10:03.23
that we use in grief recovery
00:10:03.23\00:10:05.10
and of course, are developed by
00:10:05.10\00:10:06.40
the grief recovery method.
00:10:06.40\00:10:07.60
If you were to look at the
00:10:07.60\00:10:08.80
handbook, for instance,
00:10:08.80\00:10:09.84
which we use
00:10:09.84\00:10:11.01
in grief recovery,
00:10:11.01\00:10:12.04
The Grief Recovery Handbook...
00:10:12.04\00:10:14.11
...there is a term that is used,
00:10:15.41\00:10:16.85
STERBS, Short-Term
00:10:16.85\00:10:18.41
Energy-Relieving Behaviour.
00:10:18.41\00:10:20.35
So when we are grieving,
00:10:21.42\00:10:24.15
we developed mechanisms
00:10:24.15\00:10:26.55
to be able to deal with them.
00:10:26.55\00:10:28.32
For somebody it might be
00:10:28.32\00:10:30.79
drinking like in the case
00:10:30.79\00:10:32.26
of my father, right?
00:10:32.26\00:10:33.93
That was the way for him to
00:10:33.93\00:10:35.23
pacify his pain,
00:10:35.23\00:10:36.46
his emotional pain.
00:10:36.46\00:10:38.17
So when you look at it,
00:10:38.17\00:10:40.00
it is anything that
00:10:40.00\00:10:41.37
helps you to
00:10:41.37\00:10:43.37
pacify the pain so that
00:10:43.37\00:10:45.07
you don't feel it that much.
00:10:45.07\00:10:47.51
And for me,
00:10:47.51\00:10:49.91
one of my
00:10:49.91\00:10:52.21
STERBs, I know for sure,
00:10:52.21\00:10:54.28
was work.
00:10:54.28\00:10:57.29
Right?
00:10:57.29\00:10:57.85
And it's so happens that
00:10:57.85\00:11:00.26
as part of the STERBs,
00:11:00.26\00:11:02.16
workaholism is one of them.
00:11:02.16\00:11:04.39
Right?
00:11:04.39\00:11:04.99
You bury yourself in work
00:11:04.99\00:11:06.96
to the point where
00:11:06.96\00:11:09.43
that's your best way to pacify,
00:11:09.43\00:11:11.90
right, your emotional pain
00:11:11.90\00:11:14.40
so that by the time you
00:11:14.40\00:11:15.64
come to the point where
00:11:15.64\00:11:17.87
it's time to stop working,
00:11:17.87\00:11:19.17
you crash.
00:11:19.17\00:11:21.08
Right?
00:11:21.08\00:11:21.74
And it's so happens that
00:11:21.74\00:11:23.04
many of us experience that.
00:11:23.04\00:11:25.21
But unfortunately,
00:11:25.21\00:11:27.95
STERBs do not help us
00:11:27.95\00:11:30.15
address the problem.
00:11:30.15\00:11:32.32
So one of the things that we do
00:11:32.32\00:11:33.82
in grief recovery is to
00:11:33.82\00:11:35.52
convert the STERBs
00:11:35.52\00:11:37.26
to long term,
00:11:37.26\00:11:38.89
the short-term energy-relieving
00:11:38.89\00:11:40.46
behaviours to long-term
00:11:40.46\00:11:41.93
energy-relieving behaviours.
00:11:41.93\00:11:43.80
And when I was
00:11:44.90\00:11:46.80
able to deal with
00:11:46.80\00:11:48.14
my STERBs...
00:11:48.14\00:11:50.24
...I realized that
00:11:51.77\00:11:53.01
there was a change.
00:11:53.01\00:11:54.01
In fact, I'll tell you this,
00:11:54.01\00:11:55.48
when I did
00:11:55.48\00:11:56.81
the grief recovery
00:11:56.81\00:11:58.81
for myself
00:11:58.81\00:11:59.85
and my grief recovery specialist
00:11:59.85\00:12:02.12
went through the,
00:12:02.12\00:12:04.49
you know, the steps with me.
00:12:04.49\00:12:07.36
So with that, we look at,
00:12:07.36\00:12:09.89
we start with the basic,
00:12:09.89\00:12:11.46
the foundation so that at least
00:12:11.46\00:12:13.46
we can help
00:12:13.46\00:12:15.36
the "griever," quote-unquote,
00:12:15.36\00:12:17.53
the griever understand
00:12:17.53\00:12:19.70
the myths
00:12:19.70\00:12:21.67
that society
00:12:21.67\00:12:23.64
has passed on to us,
00:12:23.64\00:12:26.04
you know?
00:12:26.04\00:12:27.64
So therefore we look at
00:12:27.64\00:12:29.61
how can we
00:12:29.61\00:12:31.08
demystify those,
00:12:31.08\00:12:33.18
right, in order for them to
00:12:33.18\00:12:34.95
understand the real concept
00:12:34.95\00:12:36.65
of grief.
00:12:36.65\00:12:37.89
And then we look at
00:12:37.89\00:12:40.16
the dawn of conscious memory
00:12:40.16\00:12:42.92
by way of that
00:12:42.92\00:12:44.09
Loss History Graph,
00:12:44.09\00:12:45.43
okay, and we look at that from
00:12:45.43\00:12:48.10
as early as you can recall.
00:12:48.10\00:12:50.17
Two years or five years
00:12:50.17\00:12:51.53
or the different events that you
00:12:51.53\00:12:53.37
had in your life up to today.
00:12:53.37\00:12:56.14
Right?
00:12:57.14\00:12:57.84
And then we look at...
00:12:57.84\00:12:59.51
...the...
00:13:02.31\00:13:03.31
...the process that is
00:13:04.45\00:13:05.65
most difficult,
00:13:05.65\00:13:07.35
right,
00:13:07.35\00:13:08.78
is the recovery component,
00:13:08.78\00:13:10.49
right?
00:13:10.49\00:13:11.09
In the recovery component,
00:13:11.09\00:13:12.95
we look at the apologies,
00:13:12.95\00:13:15.82
the forgiveness and the
00:13:15.82\00:13:17.76
significant emotional
00:13:17.76\00:13:19.06
statements, right?
00:13:19.06\00:13:20.83
The things that we wished were
00:13:20.83\00:13:22.56
said or were never said,
00:13:22.56\00:13:24.40
the things that we wished were
00:13:24.40\00:13:25.97
done or never done.
00:13:25.97\00:13:27.57
And as a result of that,
00:13:27.57\00:13:28.64
because of the absence of these
00:13:28.64\00:13:31.01
or the presence thereof,
00:13:31.01\00:13:33.41
therefore that
00:13:33.41\00:13:34.84
causes us to be
00:13:34.84\00:13:36.71
constantly in pain, because
00:13:36.71\00:13:38.51
each time we remember the pain,
00:13:38.51\00:13:40.55
each time we remember the things
00:13:40.55\00:13:41.85
that the person said to us,
00:13:41.85\00:13:43.49
that devalued us,
00:13:43.49\00:13:45.09
that affected us emotionally,
00:13:45.09\00:13:47.16
then it causes grief,
00:13:47.16\00:13:48.72
it causes emotional pain.
00:13:48.72\00:13:50.53
Then we address that.
00:13:50.53\00:13:51.99
And one of the things that
00:13:53.03\00:13:54.93
we also like to look at,
00:13:54.93\00:13:56.90
regardless of what happens
00:13:56.90\00:13:58.53
to you...
00:13:58.53\00:13:59.60
...it is extremely important
00:14:02.44\00:14:04.74
for you to move on
00:14:04.74\00:14:07.08
from
00:14:07.08\00:14:08.44
your state of grief
00:14:08.44\00:14:10.45
to a state of recovery.
00:14:10.45\00:14:12.15
You have got to take at least
00:14:12.15\00:14:13.48
1% responsibility as to how you
00:14:13.48\00:14:16.15
allow it to affect you.
00:14:16.15\00:14:17.45
>> Pastor Emile, can you give us
00:14:20.19\00:14:22.46
a couple of strategies
00:14:22.46\00:14:24.16
that worked for you and
00:14:24.16\00:14:26.49
for people who you are helping
00:14:26.49\00:14:28.46
to recover from grief?
00:14:28.46\00:14:30.13
>> That's a good question.
00:14:31.67\00:14:33.17
You know, part of the
00:14:34.70\00:14:35.80
grief recovery method,
00:14:35.80\00:14:38.27
strategy,
00:14:38.27\00:14:39.97
is to be able to help
00:14:39.97\00:14:42.21
the griever
00:14:42.21\00:14:43.75
to be able to
00:14:43.75\00:14:45.68
practically deal with
00:14:45.68\00:14:47.55
whatever that they are grieving.
00:14:47.55\00:14:50.19
So hence,
00:14:52.69\00:14:54.99
one of the strategies
00:14:54.99\00:14:56.39
that we use is what we call the
00:14:56.39\00:14:58.73
recovery component.
00:14:58.73\00:15:00.66
In the recovery component,
00:15:00.66\00:15:03.06
which I use,
00:15:03.06\00:15:04.60
not just when I was
00:15:04.60\00:15:05.83
dealing with,
00:15:05.83\00:15:07.37
let's say, for instance,
00:15:07.37\00:15:09.34
the abuses...
00:15:09.34\00:15:11.94
...from my father
00:15:13.34\00:15:15.21
and all the things that I was
00:15:15.21\00:15:17.25
dealing with as a result of
00:15:17.25\00:15:18.61
all the atrocities inflicted
00:15:18.61\00:15:21.28
on me by him.
00:15:21.28\00:15:23.52
Writing is not just
00:15:24.85\00:15:27.76
therapy,
00:15:27.76\00:15:29.16
it is therapeutic.
00:15:29.16\00:15:31.26
Right?
00:15:31.26\00:15:32.29
So in the recovery component,
00:15:32.29\00:15:34.20
we look at three steps.
00:15:34.20\00:15:37.17
We look at apologies,
00:15:37.17\00:15:38.57
we look at forgiveness,
00:15:38.57\00:15:39.63
and we look at significant
00:15:39.63\00:15:41.27
emotional statements, okay.
00:15:41.27\00:15:43.84
Because...
00:15:43.84\00:15:44.84
...yes, we talked about...
00:15:46.04\00:15:47.64
...the STERBs, right,
00:15:50.11\00:15:52.05
the short-term energy-relieving
00:15:52.05\00:15:53.78
behaviours that we all use
00:15:53.78\00:15:56.08
in order to pacify our pain.
00:15:56.08\00:15:58.32
But we want to convert those
00:15:58.32\00:16:00.22
short-term energy-relieving
00:16:00.22\00:16:01.99
behaviours into long-term
00:16:01.99\00:16:04.66
energy-relieving behaviours.
00:16:04.66\00:16:06.49
And that is by way of
00:16:06.49\00:16:08.33
expressing the deep-seated
00:16:08.33\00:16:11.10
emotional issues that we have,
00:16:11.10\00:16:13.03
that we fail to address.
00:16:13.03\00:16:16.00
And we do that by, number one,
00:16:16.00\00:16:18.57
whatever we need to
00:16:18.57\00:16:21.34
apologize for, okay,
00:16:21.34\00:16:24.05
if there is any
00:16:24.05\00:16:25.58
reason to,
00:16:25.58\00:16:27.25
we release that
00:16:27.25\00:16:29.45
and by way of writing, okay.
00:16:29.45\00:16:31.55
And the second is
00:16:31.55\00:16:33.02
by way of
00:16:33.02\00:16:35.32
granting forgiveness.
00:16:35.32\00:16:37.29
Because you cannot heal
00:16:38.89\00:16:41.00
until you really
00:16:41.00\00:16:42.56
extend compassion.
00:16:42.56\00:16:43.67
And compassion
00:16:43.67\00:16:45.80
is expressed by way of
00:16:45.80\00:16:47.64
granting forgiveness.
00:16:47.64\00:16:49.94
Whatever you did to me,
00:16:49.94\00:16:52.54
I choose to
00:16:52.54\00:16:54.54
forgive you so that I myself
00:16:54.54\00:16:56.44
can be free, right?
00:16:56.44\00:16:58.51
And that is very important.
00:16:58.51\00:17:00.15
And the third is
00:17:00.15\00:17:03.08
significant emotional
00:17:03.08\00:17:04.19
statements.
00:17:04.19\00:17:05.15
The things that I wished
00:17:05.15\00:17:06.79
I had said
00:17:06.79\00:17:09.16
or the thing I wish
00:17:09.16\00:17:11.09
that you had said
00:17:11.09\00:17:13.26
or the thing that I wished
00:17:13.26\00:17:15.56
you did not say, right?
00:17:15.56\00:17:18.13
So therefore,
00:17:18.13\00:17:19.77
in the
00:17:19.77\00:17:21.50
significant emotional statement,
00:17:21.50\00:17:23.41
so I address you
00:17:23.41\00:17:26.07
and the beautiful thing
00:17:26.07\00:17:27.31
about this is that
00:17:27.31\00:17:29.08
this can be done whether
00:17:29.08\00:17:30.31
the person is dead or alive.
00:17:30.31\00:17:32.48
And you never have to
00:17:32.48\00:17:33.55
speak to the person.
00:17:33.55\00:17:35.08
Right?
00:17:35.08\00:17:35.82
It's all you
00:17:35.82\00:17:37.29
working on yourself
00:17:37.29\00:17:39.12
and addressing the deep-seated
00:17:39.12\00:17:41.66
emotional issues.
00:17:41.66\00:17:43.63
So by actually
00:17:43.63\00:17:45.79
releasing those,
00:17:45.79\00:17:47.40
you're able to say the things
00:17:47.40\00:17:49.33
that you wished
00:17:49.33\00:17:50.83
you had said,
00:17:50.83\00:17:51.80
but didn't have the courage
00:17:51.80\00:17:52.90
to say.
00:17:52.90\00:17:54.04
>> So, Pastor Maxi, when you're
00:17:54.04\00:17:56.71
talking about going through this
00:17:56.71\00:17:58.14
process of apologizing and
00:17:58.14\00:18:00.78
forgiving, take your own
00:18:00.78\00:18:02.61
example, like your own
00:18:02.61\00:18:03.95
experience with your father,
00:18:03.95\00:18:05.58
what kinds of things did you
00:18:05.58\00:18:06.75
say to him?
00:18:06.75\00:18:07.82
What kind of things did you
00:18:07.82\00:18:09.08
apologize for?
00:18:09.08\00:18:10.19
Ask for forgiveness for?
00:18:10.19\00:18:12.29
How did that look?
00:18:12.29\00:18:13.46
>> You know, I would say,
00:18:14.49\00:18:17.13
like in my case...
00:18:17.13\00:18:18.46
...because of the
00:18:20.03\00:18:22.56
horrible things that
00:18:22.56\00:18:23.67
my father did to me,
00:18:23.67\00:18:26.03
there are certain things that
00:18:26.03\00:18:27.34
each time they come to my mind,
00:18:27.34\00:18:29.00
it's like,
00:18:29.00\00:18:30.27
it doesn't matter when,
00:18:30.27\00:18:31.27
even now...
00:18:31.27\00:18:33.68
...just thinking about them
00:18:34.48\00:18:36.31
causes me to choke, right?
00:18:36.31\00:18:39.11
After living
00:18:39.11\00:18:40.75
for years
00:18:40.75\00:18:42.22
with trauma
00:18:42.22\00:18:44.59
and with grief,
00:18:44.59\00:18:46.42
with emotional issues
00:18:46.42\00:18:47.86
inflicted on me by my father.
00:18:47.86\00:18:49.39
So actually, when he died...
00:18:49.39\00:18:51.96
...I saw the casket going down,
00:18:54.10\00:18:56.90
and in my head, I was actually
00:18:56.90\00:18:59.60
playing the things that I wished
00:18:59.60\00:19:01.37
that he had said to me
00:19:01.37\00:19:04.37
or I had said to him.
00:19:04.37\00:19:06.47
So now, because these things
00:19:06.47\00:19:08.91
were not released,
00:19:08.91\00:19:11.75
so they were internal
00:19:11.75\00:19:13.31
so they caused grief.
00:19:13.31\00:19:16.28
So I did not understand
00:19:16.28\00:19:18.72
how to release those
00:19:18.72\00:19:20.19
until I went through
00:19:20.19\00:19:21.39
grief recovery.
00:19:21.39\00:19:22.99
And then my grief recovery
00:19:22.99\00:19:24.23
specialist at the time said,
00:19:24.23\00:19:26.03
"Well, you have got to
00:19:26.03\00:19:27.23
release them.
00:19:27.23\00:19:28.20
Until you release them,
00:19:28.20\00:19:29.30
you will not be healed."
00:19:29.30\00:19:30.73
So...
00:19:32.33\00:19:33.30
...I spoke about the
00:19:33.80\00:19:36.34
recovery component, right?
00:19:36.34\00:19:38.47
The recovery components,
00:19:38.47\00:19:39.84
there are three of them
00:19:39.84\00:19:41.21
and I made mention of that.
00:19:41.21\00:19:42.88
The apologies, the forgiveness,
00:19:42.88\00:19:45.55
and the significant emotional
00:19:45.55\00:19:47.48
statement, but the one that is
00:19:47.48\00:19:49.52
the most important for me is
00:19:49.52\00:19:51.25
the recovery letter.
00:19:51.25\00:19:54.09
The recovery letter is
00:19:54.09\00:19:55.76
a letter that I,
00:19:55.76\00:19:57.86
that I would write to my father
00:19:57.86\00:19:59.43
to express
00:19:59.43\00:20:01.50
the same three components,
00:20:01.50\00:20:04.17
but I verbalize them
00:20:04.17\00:20:07.40
in writing
00:20:07.40\00:20:08.50
as if I'm writing to him,
00:20:08.50\00:20:10.37
as if he is in front of me.
00:20:10.37\00:20:11.77
So in that...
00:20:13.24\00:20:14.88
...I said something like,
00:20:16.64\00:20:18.55
"Dad...
00:20:18.55\00:20:19.55
...I would like to...
00:20:22.42\00:20:23.79
...thank you...
00:20:25.32\00:20:26.49
...for...
00:20:27.46\00:20:28.62
...having brought me
00:20:29.62\00:20:30.63
into this life.
00:20:30.63\00:20:31.73
I'm very sorry
00:20:34.66\00:20:36.80
for the fact that
00:20:36.80\00:20:37.83
our relationship was not what
00:20:37.83\00:20:40.27
I would have liked it to be.
00:20:40.27\00:20:41.74
I would have liked to learn how
00:20:43.37\00:20:45.41
to be a father, how to be a son,
00:20:45.41\00:20:47.48
how to be a husband,
00:20:47.48\00:20:49.91
how to be a good citizen.
00:20:49.91\00:20:52.08
But I understand that
00:20:53.42\00:20:55.92
you were not able to offer that
00:20:55.92\00:20:57.22
to me.
00:20:57.22\00:20:58.32
I...
00:20:59.22\00:21:00.36
...choose to forgive you
00:21:01.42\00:21:03.56
for all the
00:21:03.56\00:21:04.56
emotional pain...
00:21:04.56\00:21:05.76
...inflicted on me.
00:21:07.03\00:21:08.40
But I realize that they have
00:21:10.70\00:21:12.77
been causing me much pain
00:21:12.77\00:21:14.34
and suffering.
00:21:14.34\00:21:15.80
The time has come for me to
00:21:15.80\00:21:18.04
let them go
00:21:18.04\00:21:19.14
so that I can live...
00:21:19.14\00:21:20.34
...the life that God created me
00:21:21.98\00:21:23.31
to live.
00:21:23.31\00:21:24.91
So I choose to forgive you.
00:21:24.91\00:21:26.45
I...
00:21:28.22\00:21:29.18
...I know
00:21:31.12\00:21:32.29
it might be difficult...
00:21:32.29\00:21:33.66
...but I understand
00:21:34.89\00:21:35.92
at the same time
00:21:35.92\00:21:37.46
that until
00:21:37.46\00:21:39.13
I forgive,
00:21:39.13\00:21:40.86
I cannot live."
00:21:40.86\00:21:42.00
So the
00:21:43.40\00:21:45.80
significant emotional
00:21:45.80\00:21:47.04
statements are the things that
00:21:47.04\00:21:49.87
I wished I had said to my father
00:21:49.87\00:21:52.21
but never got to say,
00:21:52.21\00:21:54.01
or I wished my father would have
00:21:54.01\00:21:56.44
said to me but never got to say.
00:21:56.44\00:21:58.45
So I release those statements
00:21:58.45\00:22:01.25
either on my part, right,
00:22:01.25\00:22:03.59
to him
00:22:03.59\00:22:05.12
thinking that is in front of me.
00:22:05.12\00:22:06.92
Right?
00:22:06.92\00:22:07.76
And this to me is very powerful.
00:22:07.76\00:22:09.99
And of course, I- we usually
00:22:09.99\00:22:11.76
refer to
00:22:11.76\00:22:13.73
the things that
00:22:13.73\00:22:15.10
or the process of grief recovery
00:22:15.10\00:22:17.50
as tools.
00:22:17.50\00:22:19.73
These are tools that are
00:22:19.73\00:22:21.07
placed in our hands to be able
00:22:21.07\00:22:22.60
to help us address the things
00:22:22.60\00:22:23.97
that happened in our lives
00:22:23.97\00:22:25.47
or the things that happened
00:22:25.47\00:22:26.61
in our lives.
00:22:26.61\00:22:27.61
So as a result of that,
00:22:27.61\00:22:28.94
I am looking at...
00:22:28.94\00:22:30.65
...the fact that life is
00:22:33.18\00:22:34.52
difficult.
00:22:34.52\00:22:35.72
And, from one grief
00:22:35.72\00:22:37.62
to another,
00:22:37.62\00:22:39.02
and when we have the tool,
00:22:39.02\00:22:40.49
we are able to know
00:22:40.49\00:22:42.22
when to use them
00:22:42.22\00:22:43.39
when things are thrown at us.
00:22:43.39\00:22:45.46
>> So after you went through
00:22:45.46\00:22:46.80
all of that, there must have
00:22:46.80\00:22:47.86
been a lot of tears.
00:22:47.86\00:22:49.16
And that was holding you back,
00:22:51.00\00:22:53.44
as you said.
00:22:53.44\00:22:54.60
How did you feel after that was
00:22:54.60\00:22:56.10
all gone after you went through
00:22:56.10\00:22:57.87
that process?
00:22:57.87\00:22:58.97
>> I would say grief recovery is
00:23:00.04\00:23:01.61
probably one of the best things
00:23:01.61\00:23:02.68
that I did for myself
00:23:02.68\00:23:04.65
because it helped
00:23:04.65\00:23:07.32
me to address
00:23:07.32\00:23:08.98
the unresolved
00:23:08.98\00:23:10.99
emotional issues
00:23:10.99\00:23:12.95
in my life.
00:23:12.95\00:23:14.79
Because I work on myself
00:23:14.79\00:23:17.26
constantly and daily,
00:23:17.26\00:23:19.13
I'll tell you this,
00:23:19.13\00:23:20.13
I have a peace that I cannot
00:23:20.13\00:23:21.16
explain to anybody,
00:23:21.16\00:23:23.20
I cannot explain to anybody,
00:23:23.20\00:23:25.60
which I didn't have before.
00:23:25.60\00:23:27.17
And that peace gives me
00:23:27.17\00:23:28.97
a sense of calm...
00:23:28.97\00:23:31.11
...right, that...
00:23:32.24\00:23:33.98
...allows me to live
00:23:36.48\00:23:38.08
the way that God intended me,
00:23:38.08\00:23:39.88
for me to live.
00:23:39.88\00:23:41.12
>> Since he did that course,
00:23:42.75\00:23:44.55
like a lot of things
00:23:44.55\00:23:45.65
have changed in him.
00:23:45.65\00:23:47.12
There's just this peace
00:23:47.12\00:23:48.86
that he has,
00:23:48.86\00:23:49.99
this aura of peace that he has.
00:23:49.99\00:23:52.56
He's able to sit with his girls
00:23:53.43\00:23:55.70
and talk with them
00:23:55.70\00:23:57.03
just about any topic that
00:23:57.03\00:23:59.27
you can think of.
00:23:59.27\00:24:00.37
He is able to now sit
00:24:00.37\00:24:02.40
and discuss,
00:24:02.40\00:24:04.31
agree to disagree,
00:24:04.31\00:24:06.31
and have that relationship
00:24:06.31\00:24:09.34
that he had.
00:24:09.34\00:24:10.61
But I must say that
00:24:10.61\00:24:12.78
with all the grief
00:24:12.78\00:24:15.52
that he went through,
00:24:15.52\00:24:17.12
one would think that a man
00:24:17.12\00:24:19.75
who goes through that trauma,
00:24:19.75\00:24:21.52
especially with his father,
00:24:21.52\00:24:23.36
would be abusive,
00:24:23.36\00:24:24.93
would be...
00:24:24.93\00:24:25.93
...arrogant, aggressive
00:24:26.96\00:24:29.33
and all of that.
00:24:29.33\00:24:30.40
I never experienced that.
00:24:30.40\00:24:32.10
And what I admire about Emile
00:24:32.10\00:24:34.87
is that he was always looking
00:24:34.87\00:24:36.44
for ways to better himself.
00:24:36.44\00:24:38.04
It's a work in progress.
00:24:39.07\00:24:41.08
But because he has overcome
00:24:42.11\00:24:43.81
most of what he went through,
00:24:43.81\00:24:46.25
through going through this
00:24:46.25\00:24:47.55
process of grief recovery,
00:24:47.55\00:24:50.35
he is now able to
00:24:50.35\00:24:52.29
pass this on to others
00:24:52.29\00:24:54.49
and to help others.
00:24:54.49\00:24:55.92
>> Whatever
00:24:56.86\00:24:59.03
is causing your grief,
00:24:59.03\00:25:00.70
whether it is death of a
00:25:00.70\00:25:02.36
loved one, whether it is
00:25:02.36\00:25:04.07
separation or divorce or moving,
00:25:04.07\00:25:07.04
or a loss of health
00:25:07.04\00:25:08.34
or retirement or loss of pet,
00:25:08.34\00:25:10.44
and the list goes on,
00:25:10.44\00:25:12.87
I would say...
00:25:12.87\00:25:14.01
...it is a choice.
00:25:15.88\00:25:17.08
Healing yourself from any
00:25:18.08\00:25:19.85
emotional pain is a choice.
00:25:19.85\00:25:21.75
You have got to choose...
00:25:21.75\00:25:23.52
...to let go
00:25:24.89\00:25:26.89
so that you can
00:25:26.89\00:25:28.09
be who God created you to be.
00:25:28.09\00:25:30.33
>> Thank you very much.
00:25:30.33\00:25:31.63
Before you go, I wonder if
00:25:31.63\00:25:32.99
you could pray.
00:25:32.99\00:25:34.00
Pray for our viewers.
00:25:34.00\00:25:35.06
There may be someone who's
00:25:35.06\00:25:36.56
listening, who is going through
00:25:36.56\00:25:38.07
grieving right now.
00:25:38.07\00:25:40.10
Pray for them that they can
00:25:40.10\00:25:41.60
experience this recovery,
00:25:41.60\00:25:43.61
this healing that you have
00:25:43.61\00:25:45.37
experienced and that God wants
00:25:45.37\00:25:47.04
them to experience.
00:25:47.04\00:25:48.61
>> I'll be happy to.
00:25:48.61\00:25:50.48
Father in heaven,
00:25:50.48\00:25:52.25
thank You so much for Your love.
00:25:52.25\00:25:54.65
Thank You so much for all that
00:25:54.65\00:25:55.95
You are to us.
00:25:55.95\00:25:57.69
At this moment, I want to
00:26:00.56\00:26:01.89
present before you
00:26:01.89\00:26:03.66
all those who are listening,
00:26:03.66\00:26:06.13
who might be experiencing grief
00:26:06.13\00:26:08.00
of whatever nature,
00:26:08.00\00:26:09.70
You know them by name and
00:26:09.70\00:26:10.97
by nature.
00:26:10.97\00:26:12.53
I'm asking You, heavenly Father,
00:26:12.53\00:26:13.70
that You would help them to
00:26:13.70\00:26:14.90
address the unresolved
00:26:14.90\00:26:16.34
emotional issues
00:26:16.34\00:26:19.34
of their lives.
00:26:19.34\00:26:20.71
May You send their way
00:26:21.71\00:26:22.94
someone who can be able to help.
00:26:22.94\00:26:25.51
May You give them the desire
00:26:25.51\00:26:26.92
to address these issues
00:26:26.92\00:26:28.42
so that they can live a life
00:26:28.42\00:26:30.85
that is free of...
00:26:30.85\00:26:33.25
...emotional pain,
00:26:34.39\00:26:36.26
so that they can be at peace
00:26:36.26\00:26:38.29
and receive the peace that
00:26:38.29\00:26:39.43
passes all understanding.
00:26:39.43\00:26:41.66
I ask that You will
00:26:41.66\00:26:42.73
stretch forth Your mighty hands
00:26:42.73\00:26:43.73
and pronounce a very special
00:26:43.73\00:26:45.03
blessing upon them now,
00:26:45.03\00:26:47.04
because I ask in Jesus' name.
00:26:47.04\00:26:49.94
Amen.
00:26:49.94\00:26:51.01
[MIKE & RENÉ] Amen.
00:26:51.01\00:26:52.04
>> Pastor Emile, thank you
00:26:52.97\00:26:54.21
so much for joining us on
00:26:54.21\00:26:55.81
It Is Written Canada.
00:26:55.81\00:26:57.18
>> It's my pleasure.
00:26:57.18\00:26:58.58
>> Friends, whenever life
00:27:01.22\00:27:02.52
doesn't make sense or I'm
00:27:02.52\00:27:04.25
feeling down and discouraged
00:27:04.25\00:27:06.32
or even feeling overwhelmed
00:27:06.32\00:27:08.52
with grief,
00:27:08.52\00:27:09.52
I pick up this little book,
00:27:09.52\00:27:10.86
Help In Daily Living.
00:27:10.86\00:27:12.93
And we would like to send
00:27:12.93\00:27:14.83
this book to you free of charge.
00:27:14.83\00:27:16.67
>> If you're feeling like the
00:27:17.70\00:27:19.17
wheels are falling off and
00:27:19.17\00:27:21.27
your life is becoming unglued,
00:27:21.27\00:27:23.84
or if your wheels are
00:27:23.84\00:27:25.04
simply spinning
00:27:25.04\00:27:26.54
and you're not getting anywhere,
00:27:26.54\00:27:28.64
you'll find solutions
00:27:28.64\00:27:30.55
in this little book,
00:27:30.55\00:27:32.05
our free offer,
00:27:32.05\00:27:33.45
Help In Daily Living.
00:27:33.45\00:27:35.45
>> Before you go, we would also
00:27:37.49\00:27:38.95
like to thank all of you
00:27:38.95\00:27:40.86
who have supported the ministry
00:27:40.86\00:27:42.19
of It Is Written Canada
00:27:42.19\00:27:43.19
with your prayers and
00:27:43.19\00:27:44.23
financial contributions.
00:27:44.23\00:27:45.96
Without your support,
00:27:45.96\00:27:47.50
this television ministry
00:27:47.50\00:27:48.96
could not have reached
00:27:48.96\00:27:50.27
so many people
00:27:50.27\00:27:51.57
for so many decades.
00:27:51.57\00:27:54.00
>> Yes, thank you.
00:27:54.00\00:27:56.00
And we would also like to
00:27:56.00\00:27:57.41
invite you to follow us on
00:27:57.41\00:27:59.21
Instagram and Facebook
00:27:59.21\00:28:01.64
and subscribe to our
00:28:01.64\00:28:02.91
YouTube channel
00:28:02.91\00:28:04.08
and also listen to our podcasts.
00:28:04.08\00:28:07.02
And if you go to our website,
00:28:07.02\00:28:09.22
you can see our latest programs.
00:28:09.22\00:28:11.62
>> Friends, if you want
00:28:14.19\00:28:15.22
the kind of healing that
00:28:15.22\00:28:16.26
Pastor Emile Maxi experienced,
00:28:16.26\00:28:18.09
we recommend that you open
00:28:18.09\00:28:20.33
the Bible, God's word,
00:28:20.33\00:28:22.50
where it is recorded that
00:28:22.50\00:28:23.73
Jesus found His assurance to
00:28:23.73\00:28:25.80
defeat the devil through
00:28:25.80\00:28:27.17
the Word of His Father
00:28:27.17\00:28:29.47
when He declared...
00:28:29.47\00:28:30.74
[gentle music]
00:28:41.02\00:28:43.99
¤¤
00:28:43.99\00:28:46.96