Participants:
Series Code: IIWC
Program Code: IIWC202423S
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00:05 >> Would you please
00:06 clean up your piles? 00:07 They're everywhere! 00:09 Would you stop being so lazy 00:10 and just get something done? 00:12 I don't get why 00:14 you just can't care about 00:15 anybody other than yourself. 00:17 You're so selfish. 00:21 [theme music] 00:24 ♪♪ 01:07 >> Welcome to 01:08 It Is Written Canada. 01:09 Thank you for joining us. 01:11 Imagine a satisfied couple. 01:13 They both say that 01:14 they are satisfied 01:15 and by everybody's observation, 01:17 including their own, 01:19 they have a great relationship. 01:21 So here's a question. 01:23 What percentage 01:24 of their problems 01:25 do you think 01:27 they should be able 01:28 to solve? 01:29 >> This is clearly not a couple 01:31 who are struggling. 01:32 So most people say 01:34 that they think they should be 01:36 able to solve 90 to 01:38 100% of their problems. 01:40 However, longitudinal studies 01:43 reveal that couples tend to have 01:46 the same ongoing conflicts 01:49 throughout their marriage, 01:51 regardless of how happy 01:53 they say they are. 01:55 >> Research reveals that 01:57 69% of all 01:59 conflicts in marriage 02:01 are never solved. 02:02 So here's the question again. 02:04 What percent of problems 02:06 will a happy couple 02:09 be able to solve? 02:10 And you've got it, 02:11 31%. 02:14 >> When we share this finding 02:16 with many married couples, 02:18 they see this as very hopeful 02:21 because they realize 02:22 that you don't have to 02:24 solve all your problems 02:26 to have a great relationship. 02:28 >> Marlon and Doreen Cliff 02:30 are our special guests on 02:32 It Is Written Canada today. 02:34 They are certified 02:36 Gottman Educators for 02:38 the Seven Principles for 02:40 Making Marriage Work. 02:41 Certified Prepare Enrich 02:43 Facilitators, Caring for the 02:45 Heart Ministries Lay Counselors, 02:48 and marriage wellness coaches. 02:51 >> Marlon and Doreen, 02:53 welcome to It Is Written Canada. 02:56 >> Thank you. 02:57 It's great to be here. 02:58 >> Yes. 02:59 >> Marlon, Doreen, let's begin 03:00 with this question. 03:01 Can you tell us or give us 03:02 some examples of 03:04 perpetual problems that 03:07 typical couples experience? 03:09 >> Sure. 03:10 So in some cases, 03:11 some people are more social and 03:13 some are not. 03:15 >> And some like camping and 03:18 others like five-star resorts. 03:21 >> And some like more 03:22 physical intimacy and some like 03:24 less physical intimacy. 03:26 >> Some are savers, 03:27 some are spenders. 03:28 >> Mmm. 03:30 Some like to travel 03:31 and some like to stay at home. 03:33 >> So there's many different 03:35 perpetual problems within 03:37 relationships. 03:38 But as we coach couples, 03:40 there's always a top three. 03:42 Finances, 03:44 physical intimacy, 03:46 and then adventure. 03:48 >> So, Marlon and Doreen, 03:50 did you have 03:52 any of these perpetual problems 03:54 in your marriage? 03:55 >> We had a lot of them, René, 03:57 yes, many of them. 03:59 >> We did, yeah. 04:00 The biggest one for us, 04:02 one of the biggest we'll pick on 04:04 is travel. 04:06 I was that little girl who would 04:08 sit with the Atlas open 04:10 on my lap, and I would be 04:11 pinpointing all the areas 04:13 that I wanted to travel. 04:16 And I was just dreaming about 04:17 travel, being a missionary. 04:20 But I never had this 04:21 conversation with Marlon 04:23 about what he liked 04:25 about travel, 04:26 even if he even liked it. 04:27 I wasn't sure. 04:29 >> So Marlon, why did you not 04:31 like traveling? 04:33 >> For me, I had an emotional 04:34 disconnection to travel. 04:35 So when we talk about travel, 04:37 it actually triggered fear 04:38 and anxiety in me. 04:39 So I'd actually become anxious. 04:41 A matter of fact, we even had, 04:43 in our fifth year of marriage, 04:44 we had a mission trip planned 04:46 to Belize. 04:47 And we had it all, 04:48 it was all booked, we had 04:49 a plan, we got the training. 04:51 We're getting ready to go 04:52 and we're packed. 04:53 The week before, 04:54 I became so anxious 04:57 that I actually gave my ticket 04:58 to another person 05:00 and my wife traveled without me. 05:02 >> This crushed me 05:04 because I was so looking forward 05:06 to traveling with Marlon 05:08 and seeing the world together, 05:10 helping people in other part of 05:12 the world together. 05:13 So it really impacted me 05:15 at that point. 05:16 >> So some of my fears and 05:18 anxieties came from, you know, 05:19 I was six, my parents separated 05:20 and they got a divorce. 05:22 And so one of them lived 05:23 12 hours away. 05:25 So I would go back and forth. 05:27 So when I was going 05:28 back and forth, one parent 05:29 would be sad and crying and 05:31 the other person would be happy. 05:32 Then when I would go back, 05:33 one person, the other person 05:34 would be crying. 05:35 So it always created this 05:37 travel, just had this anxiety 05:38 and stress that I wasn't 05:39 aware of in our relationship, 05:40 how it impacted me, 05:41 until later on, until after 05:43 we repaired it and we started 05:44 having that dialog, 05:46 uncovering and what we're 05:47 talking about. 05:48 >> So when does 05:51 a─ ongoing perpetual problems, 05:52 when does it become 05:53 destructive to the relationship? 05:56 >> Yeah, when it turns into 05:57 gridlock and we no longer accept 05:59 influence from one another, 06:00 it turns into a gridlock 06:02 where we become positional 06:03 instead of, I guess, really 06:05 understanding what the dream is, 06:07 what the need is, 06:08 and to really learn to 06:10 appreciate what's important 06:12 to the other person. 06:13 [RENÉ] Marlon and Doreen, 06:14 can you give us 06:16 a practical way 06:17 of how we can overcome 06:20 gridlock in our relationships? 06:23 >> So gridlock is two people. 06:25 They have their fists closed. 06:27 So what is inside the fist? 06:29 >> Well, it's either a dream 06:31 or a desire. 06:32 Maybe a need. 06:35 >> Yeah, so if we have our, 06:36 both have our fist closed, 06:38 we can't really discover and 06:39 uncover that underlying need 06:42 or desire for travel 06:44 or whatever it was in her case. 06:46 So we kept our fist closed. 06:48 So the only way to, 06:50 is to open up 06:51 where we can both can open up 06:52 and understand and look inside 06:54 and discovered and uncover 06:55 what is that need? 06:56 What is that dream? 06:58 What is the desire? 06:59 So once we... 06:59 >> Maybe a fear. 07:00 >> Or maybe a fear. 07:02 Or in a lot of cases, 07:04 in many couples that we talk to, 07:06 we're in gridlock. 07:07 What if one person 07:10 or both people decide not to 07:12 open up or to 07:14 go from gridlock to exploration? 07:17 So sometimes in the relationship 07:19 only one person chooses. 07:21 So in my case, I chose to 07:23 open up and started to 07:26 dialog and to understand 07:27 what her dream was. 07:28 What was her need? 07:29 What was I not meeting? 07:31 And eventually, as I started to 07:33 care about her heart, 07:35 care about her needs, 07:36 care about her desires, 07:37 she eventually opened up 07:39 as well. 07:40 >> I did. 07:40 >> And then we could 07:41 actually then have that 07:43 conversation of dialog, 07:44 and then we could start meeting 07:45 and understanding each other's 07:46 needs and desires and dreams. 07:48 >> So what kind of questions 07:50 were you asking each other 07:51 so that you could be opening up? 07:53 Or what was happening 07:54 to create that safe place 07:56 or that safe space? 07:58 >> So it was learning and 08:00 understanding, you know, 08:01 what is it in your childhood 08:02 that you desire so much 08:04 to travel? 08:05 So tell me a little bit about 08:06 why do you like to travel 08:07 so much? 08:08 Why is it so important to you? 08:09 >> You know, I discovered that 08:10 for me, travel was kind of a 08:13 part of my spirituality 08:13 part of my spirituality 08:15 and who I was because 08:18 I love to see 08:19 what God has made for me. 08:20 So I wanted to explore 08:22 all different parts of the world 08:24 and really see what 08:24 and really see what 08:26 was there for me to see. 08:28 But part of it was my belief 08:31 of my spirituality, 08:32 where I believe that 08:34 living out my faith 08:36 was to help others. 08:38 So my dream to do mission work 08:40 in combination with travel 08:43 was really a huge dream for me 08:45 to live out my faith 08:47 and put it in action 08:48 and help others. 08:50 >> So how does it make you feel 08:51 when we travel or 08:52 when you travel? 08:54 >> Ahh. 08:55 It fulfills my soul 08:58 and my purpose in life. 09:00 >> I knew it was important, 09:01 but I didn't realize 09:02 how important. 09:03 And it was part of your 09:04 spiritual belief or your beliefs 09:05 and values to travel 09:06 do mission work and just to, 09:08 and to travel with me. 09:10 I didn't realize how 09:11 important it was so, you know, 09:12 will you forgive me for that? 09:14 For not traveling with you? 09:16 >> I will, but you know, 09:17 I wanna go further and I wanna 09:18 understand you, too. 09:20 What's stopping you 09:22 from traveling? 09:23 >> Hmmm. 09:24 Well, really it's sometimes 09:26 I just fear. 09:27 Fear and anxiety. 09:28 I get anxious when we travel. 09:29 When I get close, 09:30 it sounds good and I want to 09:31 do it, but then when we 09:32 get close to the date, 09:33 it just─ the anxiety and fear 09:34 builds up in me where I just... 09:36 Yeah, I just got blocked. 09:38 But you know, the Bible says 09:39 perfect love casts out all fear. 09:41 And when I started 09:42 loving my wife and started 09:43 caring about her, 09:44 the love for her was greater 09:46 than the fear that I had 09:47 and I was able to overcome 09:48 by love. 09:49 >> So are we talking about 09:51 negative interactions. 09:53 Are all negative interactions 09:56 equally corrosive? 09:57 Or are there some 09:59 negative interactions that are 10:00 more corrosive than others? 10:03 >> So Dr. John Gottman 10:04 >> So Dr. John Gottman 10:04 identified four horsemen 10:06 of the apocalypse, 10:07 and those four are, 10:09 the first one is criticism... 10:11 [DOREEN] The second one is 10:12 defensiveness. 10:14 [MARLON] And the third one is 10:16 being contemptuous 10:17 or being contempt. 10:19 [DOREEN] And then the fourth one 10:20 is stonewalling or just 10:22 checking out and shutting down. 10:24 >> So, Marlon, you mentioned 10:26 the first horseman. 10:28 So let's take a look at 10:29 the first horseman, which is 10:30 criticism. 10:32 Can you tell us how criticism 10:34 differs from complaining? 10:37 >> Mmm, sure we can talk about 10:38 criticism and a difference 10:40 between a complaint. 10:41 >> Yeah, so criticism is really 10:43 where you're attacking 10:45 your partner's character, 10:47 who they are, whereas 10:50 a complaing is expressing 10:52 a need. 10:53 Now, I was the queen 10:55 of criticism. [laughs] 10:58 I had it down pat 10:59 so well. 11:01 And I am sad to say 11:03 that I really crushed 11:05 my husband's heart 11:06 with criticism routinely. 11:09 You see, I really, I needed 11:10 a man of action. 11:12 And because I was thinking about 11:15 how I did not appreciate 11:16 my husband, it moved me 11:18 into a negative perspective, 11:20 which then piled on 11:22 the bitterness and resentment 11:23 towards my husband. 11:25 So those two are 11:26 very strongly connected. 11:28 If you feel bitterness 11:29 and resentment, 11:30 usually we're critical. 11:32 So this is how I would act out. 11:35 Now... 11:37 ...the antidote for criticism 11:39 is that gentle start up, 11:41 which we talked about 11:42 in another episode, 11:43 which is so important. 11:45 So this is how we can do 11:47 a re-do in this situation. 11:49 >> And we do a lot of re-dos 11:50 in our relationship now. 11:51 Thank God for re-dos. 11:53 >> Yeah. 11:55 Honey... 11:55 >> Yes, Dear? 11:56 >> I know I've been really busy 11:57 lately and I so appreciate 11:59 that you're so hard working. 12:02 I really just need to 12:03 have that light bulb 12:04 in the hallway changed. 12:06 Could we take time to do it 12:08 together tonight? 12:10 >> Sure, you know, I just 12:10 have to finish this email 12:11 and give me about five minutes 12:13 and then we can go change it. 12:14 >> Thank you. 12:15 >> Mmm, you're welcome. 12:16 >> So you can see his response 12:18 from that gentle start up. 12:19 And I showed an appreciation. 12:22 Appreciation is so key. 12:24 And this is the one thing 12:25 we stop doing. 12:27 So learning to put 12:28 an appreciation in with 12:30 your complaint or your request 12:33 is very, very key. 12:35 [RENÉ] Then once you have that 12:36 gentle startup where you're 12:38 saying, "I feel," "I need," 12:40 now Marlon is feeling 12:42 appreciated and you're becoming 12:45 a man of action 12:46 for what you need. 12:48 >> Yes, and I've created that 12:50 safe space with no criticism, 12:53 because once I criticize, 12:55 what's the other person's 12:56 response? 12:57 [MIKE] Mmm, so... 12:58 What? Defensiveness. 13:00 So I was gonna ask that 13:01 question, why is defensiveness 13:02 the next horseman? 13:03 >> Mmm. 13:04 >> Yes. 13:05 >> So defensiveness is when 13:06 we feel attacked, 13:08 we try to protect ourselves 13:10 by attacking back. 13:11 So we become defensive 13:12 and we start blaming 13:14 the other person instead of 13:16 accepting responsibility, 13:17 which is the antidote. 13:18 [MIKE] Mm-hmm. 13:19 So you're saying, 13:20 It's not me, it's you," right? 13:22 "You're the problem, not me." 13:24 Defensiveness is another way of 13:26 saying Why are you 13:28 picking on me all the time? 13:29 So you become the victim, right? 13:31 I'm just never good enough, 13:33 you know, I'm the one who's... 13:34 Yeah. 13:35 >> And I struggle with that 13:36 emotionally, not being 13:37 good enough, not being... 13:38 You know, so that would drive 13:39 my─ those feelings of rejection, 13:42 not being good enough. 13:43 So then I would just become 13:44 more and more defensive 13:45 and attack back. 13:48 >> Yeah, and I constantly 13:49 felt like I wasn't being heard 13:51 in that I wasn't important 13:53 and my needs 13:54 didn't mean anything to him. 13:56 So that was kind of the story 13:57 I kept telling myself, 13:59 that I'm not important to him. 14:00 So I would just try to 14:01 speak louder so he could 14:02 hear me better. 14:04 And it just gave 14:06 the opposite effect. 14:07 And that's often what happens, 14:09 what we intend to 14:10 get their attention, 14:12 actually, we get the 14:13 opposite response. 14:15 >> Doreen, you mentioned that 14:17 the antidote for criticism 14:19 was the gentle startup. 14:20 So what is the antidote 14:22 for defensiveness? 14:24 >> Accepting responsibility. 14:27 I would─ did not accept 14:28 responsibility for my part 14:30 in the action, so... 14:31 Accepting responsibility 14:32 looks totally different 14:34 for my part of the 14:36 interaction or the conflict. 14:37 So in this example... 14:39 So let's try that again. 14:40 >> Yeah. 14:41 Honey, I asked you to change 14:43 the light bulb a long time ago. 14:46 How come you never do 14:47 what I ask you to do? 14:49 Like you just─ you don't care 14:51 about what's important to me. 14:53 >> You know, Honey, 14:54 you're right. 14:55 I'm sorry. 14:55 I completely forgot about it. 14:57 No excuses. 14:59 I should have done it. 15:00 I will go do it right now. 15:02 I'm so sorry. 15:03 >> Really? 15:03 >> Yes. 15:04 >> Okay. 15:05 Well, can I come help you? 15:07 >> Sure, if you'd like. 15:07 That would be fine. 15:08 >> Because I really wanna 15:09 make sure it gets done. 15:10 >> And then you can protect me. 15:11 Hold the ladder for me. 15:12 >> Yes, I'd be happy to do that. 15:15 But you can see how 15:16 we kind of used a bit of humour 15:18 to diffuse it. 15:18 I said, "I really want to 15:19 make sure it gets done," 15:21 and he didn't take it 15:22 defensively because he was 15:24 owning up to his 15:26 part to play in it. 15:28 And you know, that really 15:29 diffused me. 15:31 So I'm like, Okay, 15:32 he's hearing me. 15:33 I don't need to be critical now. 15:35 >> Any of us can break that 15:36 crazy cycle, we get in that 15:37 crazy cycle of criticism, 15:40 defend. 15:41 It's like, you know, 15:42 playing tennis, 15:43 serving back and forth, 15:44 and it keeps getting 15:45 escalated to escalate, 15:46 which will lead to contempt, 15:47 which we'll be talking 15:48 about next. 15:49 But any of us can break 15:50 the cycle. 15:50 So Doreen can break the cycle 15:51 by using a gentle start up, 15:52 instead of hard startup. 15:54 Or I could end the cycle 15:55 of responding with 15:57 accepting responsibility 15:58 instead of responding with 15:59 defensiveness. 16:00 >> So when you accept 16:01 responsibility, you're saying 16:02 you're sorry. 16:03 And some people, I mean, I just 16:04 talked to someone the other day 16:05 who said, "My dad has never said 16:07 he was sorry for anything." 16:09 And we think, 16:10 Oh, that's a sign of 16:12 strength, but it's actually 16:13 a sign of weakness. 16:14 It's fear. 16:15 It's fear of vulnerability. 16:17 It's fear of saying, Hey, I am 16:18 responsible, because as soon as 16:20 I say I'm responsible, 16:21 I'm sorry, then it's like you 16:23 give the other person 16:24 a measure of strength over you, 16:26 but you actually became 16:28 more gentle when you took 16:29 responsibility and said sorry. 16:31 So...yeah. 16:32 >> It completely diffuses 16:33 the the feelings 16:36 in the room. 16:37 Yeah. 16:38 >> Doreen, the third horsemen 16:40 of the apocalypse according to 16:42 Gottman is contempt. 16:45 What is so terrible 16:47 about contempt? 16:49 >> Oh, contempt is like 16:51 criticism on steroids. 16:53 And he says that 16:55 contempt is the number one 16:57 predictor of divorce. 16:59 So all of these four things, 17:02 the criticism, defensiveness, 17:03 contempt, stonewalling, 17:05 they're things that 17:07 cause a relationship to 17:08 eventually come to an end. 17:09 But contempt is one that 17:12 predicts it will come to an end. 17:15 And sad to say, 17:17 I was contemptuous. 17:19 Which, you know, it makes sense 17:21 because at 24 years, 17:24 our relationship did come 17:25 to an end 17:27 and I was just done. 17:28 I was tired of this, and I had 17:31 started to speak like I was 17:33 more superior than Marlon. 17:36 Put him down so he was 17:38 lower than me. 17:39 And I just treated him 17:42 like he was disgusting to me. 17:44 And I feel such 17:45 remorse for it 17:47 because it really impacted 17:50 his heart and we've had to do 17:51 a lot of repair 17:53 around this contempt that 17:55 happened in our relationship. 17:57 >> It's kind of my way 17:58 or the highway, right? 17:59 >> Very much so, yeah. 18:01 >> The way you did things 18:03 was the right way. 18:04 Mine was the wrong way. 18:05 Even having devotions 18:06 with our kids, 18:07 Well, you didn't do that right. 18:08 Or needs to be─ you need to 18:09 do this better to change this. 18:11 And she was like, coming down. 18:12 I was like, I didn't know 18:13 what I was doing. 18:14 So eventually I just said, 18:15 "Okay, well, then you do it." 18:16 So I stopped having 18:18 family devotions with 18:19 my children. 18:20 >> And this is really what 18:21 a lot of content look like 18:22 in our relationship. 18:24 And it revolved around Marlon 18:27 being a man of action for me. 18:29 And I would shut him down. 18:30 I wouldn't give him 18:31 the opportunity. 18:33 So I would criticize 18:34 and when he didn't do things 18:36 for me, then I became 18:37 contemptuous. 18:39 So, Honey... 18:40 >> Yes? 18:41 >> Would you please clean up 18:43 your piles? 18:44 They're everywhere. 18:45 They're on the coffee table, 18:46 the table, you know, 18:47 on the stairs all the way up 18:48 to our bedroom. 18:49 They're everywhere! 18:51 Would you stop being so lazy 18:53 and just get something done? 18:57 I don't get why 18:59 you just can't care about 19:00 anybody other than yourself. 19:03 You're so selfish. 19:06 >> So that would go on. 19:07 And I noticed that Marlon got 19:10 a little quiet there. 19:11 >> We're holding hands now, 19:13 but we probably shouldn't have 19:14 been back then. 19:15 We wouldn't be holding hands, 19:16 right, we would be, 19:18 you know, that chasm 19:19 of emotional disconnect 19:22 just got worse and worse 19:23 because I didn't 19:25 create a safe place for him 19:28 to be able to fulfill my needs. 19:30 It was constant criticism 19:32 which turned to contempt 19:34 all the time. 19:35 And what I was thinking 19:38 is not the positive things 19:41 about Marlon, 19:42 but I was thinking about 19:43 the negative things. 19:45 So the antidote for contempt 19:47 is to put that positivity 19:49 into your relationship, 19:50 to appreciate 19:53 your husband 19:54 or your wife or your child. 19:56 You know, putting that 19:57 positivity into their─ 19:58 retraining your 20:00 thought process 20:02 when you start to think 20:03 negatively about that person, 20:05 to say, Okay, there are 20:06 good things and this is 20:08 what I appreciate about him. 20:11 So I had to retrain my brain. 20:14 I had given Marlon a list. 20:15 He asked for reasons why I was 20:17 gonna leave the relationship. 20:20 And I didn't wanna 20:21 give them to him. 20:22 I said, "No, I've told you 20:23 a thousand times, 20:24 You should know 20:24 why I'm leaving." 20:26 Before I left, I decided to 20:28 give him this list 20:29 of all the reasons 20:31 why I was leaving. 20:32 But later on 20:35 I decided to take that same list 20:37 and on the other side of 20:39 each page, write the positive. 20:42 And at that moment 20:43 I realized 20:45 how much positivity there was 20:48 in our relationship. 20:49 >> Amen. 20:50 >> And how much I appreciated 20:53 about him that it 20:55 jarred me for a moment 20:56 to think, What am I doing? 20:59 You know, so appreciating, 21:02 sharing that fondness and 21:03 admiration for the other person 21:06 is so key to do that 21:08 thought turnaround 21:10 in that moment. 21:12 >> So that thought turnaround, 21:14 for some couples when we say 21:15 have that thought turnaround 21:17 and now start─ 21:18 You can write them down 21:19 and sometimes the hand can write 21:21 what the mouth can't speak. 21:23 And you start speaking it 21:25 and then some couples say, 21:26 "Well, this just feels phony 21:28 because I just can't get it out. 21:29 It just doesn't seem right, 21:31 like, to do this." 21:32 What do you say to them? 21:33 >> Yeah, so that's a 21:34 good suggestion to start by 21:36 writing it out 21:38 and then getting to the point 21:40 where you're starting to 21:41 speak it and it does feel 21:43 very clunky because we're not 21:45 used to doing it. 21:46 I felt very phony 21:48 when I started to express 21:49 this appreciation. 21:51 But over time, 21:53 we're kind of 21:55 rewiring the neural pathways 21:56 of our brain. 21:57 We're creating─ our brains are 21:58 neuroplastic, 22:00 so we can change 22:02 the brain, which is beautiful, 22:04 that God's given that us─ 22:05 us that ability. 22:07 So, so important to take that 22:09 step and be vulnerable. 22:11 It feels vulnerable 22:13 to start giving appreciation. 22:16 >> And even in addition to that, 22:18 even receiving 22:20 appreciation or admiration 22:21 can feel a little bit awkward 22:23 at first, right? 22:24 Or maybe, you know, 22:25 I tell my wife, oh, 22:26 how beautiful she looked. 22:27 She said, "Oh, you're so 22:28 delirious." 22:29 So sometimes we're not even 22:30 comfortable accepting 22:32 the admiration and fondness 22:33 to say thank you. 22:34 [DOREEN] Yeah, we just let 22:35 the appreciation bounce off 22:36 our heart. 22:37 >> Because it's so foreign to us 22:38 and we feel, well, maybe it's 22:39 not genuine. 22:40 She doesn't really─ she's just 22:41 saying that. 22:42 But again, you know, sometimes, 22:43 you know, our feelings, 22:46 if we allow our feelings to 22:47 control us and we don't 22:48 regulate that, see, our feelings 22:50 will follow action. 22:51 So if we do the action, we speak 22:53 the words, our feelings change. 22:54 You know, we become─ 22:56 by beholding we become changed. 22:57 As I beheld the beauty 22:59 and I beheld all the 23:00 good qualities in her, 23:01 I started to believe it and 23:03 started to speak it. 23:04 And it just, it reinforced 23:05 those thoughts so it became 23:06 natural. 23:07 >> It did. 23:08 And I felt it as well, 23:10 that it was genuine from him 23:12 over time. 23:14 >> Stonewalling is the 23:16 fourth horsemen of the 23:18 apocalypse, and it usually 23:20 is a response to contempt. 23:23 Can you tell us a little bit 23:24 more about stonewalling, Marlon? 23:26 >> Yeah, sure. 23:27 So when we were doing 23:28 the example previously 23:30 about the piles, when she was 23:32 acting contemptuous toward me, 23:34 what was I, what was my 23:35 physical language expressing? 23:37 It was, I was looking down. 23:39 I was checking out emotionally. 23:41 Sometimes we'd actually 23:42 check out physically. 23:43 I'd actually leave the house. 23:44 Would go for a walk so that 23:45 I could get away from it. 23:47 But whether we're checking out 23:48 emotionally or physically, 23:50 it's just withdrawing from it 23:51 because we're trying to 23:52 protect our hearts 23:53 so we can protect from the, 23:54 you know, this aggressive attack 23:56 and making our feelings of 23:57 low self-worth even go lower. 24:00 So, you know, this is an issue, 24:02 especially with men. 24:03 Research has shown that 24:04 85% of men actually are 24:07 the stonewallers 24:08 in the relationship. 24:09 They're the ones that are 24:10 checking out emotionally 24:11 or physically. 24:12 So it was something that 24:13 I was doing and part of the 24:15 relationship was a problem. 24:16 I would just withdraw. 24:17 So the antidote for that is 24:18 So the antidote for that is 24:19 actually what they call 24:20 self-soothing, 24:22 where I would learn to 24:23 manage or regulate my emotions 24:26 by doing, maybe I葫o for 24:28 a 20-minute walk, 24:29 and research is shown 24:30 that when we start flooding, 24:32 when our heart rate goes above 24:33 95 to 100 beats per minute, 24:35 you know, the hormones, cortisol 24:37 and adrenaline and start to go 24:38 and it kind of washes out 24:39 that frontal lobe and we don't 24:40 become rational anymore. 24:41 So that's the, you know, 24:42 we halt, we take a break 24:44 from the conflict 24:45 and we step back 24:47 and maybe I'll go for a walk 24:48 or listen to some relaxing music 24:50 or something. 24:51 Something to─ or read something 24:52 from the Bible, meditation, 24:54 you know, so that my mindset 24:55 can change and reset 24:57 so that I can come back 24:59 and have that conversation in a 25:01 logical, emotionally controlled 25:04 situation. 25:05 [DOREEN] So when women get to 25:07 the point where they stonewall, 25:09 research has shown that 25:10 it's over 25:11 it's over. 25:12 Because women don't normally 25:13 stonewall. 25:14 So I started to stonewall 25:17 and I started to withdraw 25:18 and I started to withdraw 25:20 and not be in 25:23 the world of 25:24 the Cliff family anymore. 25:25 I would take care of the 25:26 children, but we did everything 25:28 separately and I started to 25:30 just stonewall Marlon. 25:31 I wouldn't speak to him. 25:33 I wouldn't do anything with him. 25:35 I just did things with the kids. 25:38 So at that point, 25:41 our relationship did 25:42 come to an end once I 25:43 started to stonewall. 25:44 >> Mmm. 25:45 And we've come to the end of 25:48 our time together, 25:50 unfortunately. 25:51 But you've really 25:53 outlined very nicely for us 25:55 how conflict is inevitable, 25:57 but combat is optional. 26:00 And you don't have to get 26:01 into that. 26:02 >> Marlon and Doreen, 26:03 thank you so much for joining us 26:05 on It Is Written Canada today. 26:07 >> You're welcome. 26:08 >> Thank you. 26:09 >> Friends, we live in 26:11 challenging times. 26:12 Our lives are saturated 26:14 by information, activities, 26:15 and senseless expectations. 26:18 So the stresses of life 26:20 make healthy relationships 26:23 more difficult to achieve 26:25 and sustain. 26:27 So our free offer 26:28 for you is 26:30 Hope For Today's Families. 26:33 >> Husbands and wives, 26:34 as well as parents and children 26:37 and other family members 26:39 live under the same roof 26:41 but tend to communicate poorly 26:44 at best. 26:46 Many want the stability 26:47 of a strong family life, 26:49 but don't know how to 26:51 attain it. 26:52 >> Hope For Today's Families 26:54 will help you build 26:56 strong relationships 26:58 with those around you. 27:00 Show how husbands and wives 27:02 can draw closer emotionally, 27:04 spiritually, financially, 27:06 and intellectually. 27:08 >> And it will also help you 27:10 to communicate more effectively, 27:12 understand and heal the roots 27:14 of violence, prevent distress 27:17 and divorce, or live happily 27:19 as a single person. 27:21 >> Before you go, we would 27:23 like to thank all of you 27:25 who have supported the ministry 27:27 of It Is Written Canada 27:28 with your prayers 27:29 and financial contributions. 27:31 Without your support, 27:32 this television ministry 27:35 could not have reached 27:37 so many people 27:38 for so many decades. 27:40 >> And we would also like to 27:42 invite you to follow us on 27:44 Instagram and Facebook, 27:46 and subscribe to our 27:47 YouTube channel, and also 27:50 listen to our podcasts. 27:52 And if you go to our website, 27:54 you can see our latest programs. 27:58 >> Friends, to be honest, 27:59 Jesus is offering you a life 28:01 that is beyond our 28:03 ongoing struggles with pain, 28:06 suffering, and the sorrows 28:08 of this life. 28:09 We would like to recommend 28:11 that you open the Bible 28:13 where it is recorded that 28:15 Jesus Himself found 28:16 His assurance to defeat 28:18 the devil through the Word 28:20 of His Father 28:21 when He declared... 28:31 [gentle music] 28:34 ♪♪ |
Revised 2025-03-05