>> Would you please
00:00:05.20\00:00:06.20
clean up your piles?
00:00:06.20\00:00:07.64
They're everywhere!
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Would you stop being so lazy
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and just get something done?
00:00:10.71\00:00:12.41
I don't get why
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you just can't care about
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anybody other than yourself.
00:00:15.84\00:00:17.71
You're so selfish.
00:00:17.71\00:00:19.08
[theme music]
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¤¤
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>> Welcome to
00:01:07.30\00:01:08.26
It Is Written Canada.
00:01:08.26\00:01:09.40
Thank you for joining us.
00:01:09.40\00:01:11.47
Imagine a satisfied couple.
00:01:11.47\00:01:13.23
They both say that
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they are satisfied
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and by everybody's observation,
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including their own,
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they have a great relationship.
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So here's a question.
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What percentage
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of their problems
00:01:24.41\00:01:25.98
do you think
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they should be able
00:01:27.12\00:01:28.42
to solve?
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>> This is clearly not a couple
00:01:29.38\00:01:31.09
who are struggling.
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So most people say
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that they think they should be
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able to solve 90 to
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100% of their problems.
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However, longitudinal studies
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reveal that couples tend to have
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the same ongoing conflicts
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throughout their marriage,
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regardless of how happy
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they say they are.
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>> Research reveals that
00:01:55.41\00:01:57.05
69% of all
00:01:57.05\00:01:59.51
conflicts in marriage
00:01:59.51\00:02:01.05
are never solved.
00:02:01.05\00:02:02.88
So here's the question again.
00:02:02.88\00:02:04.19
What percent of problems
00:02:04.19\00:02:06.99
will a happy couple
00:02:06.99\00:02:09.06
be able to solve?
00:02:09.06\00:02:10.66
And you've got it,
00:02:10.66\00:02:11.66
31%.
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>> When we share this finding
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with many married couples,
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they see this as very hopeful
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because they realize
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that you don't have to
00:02:22.97\00:02:24.11
solve all your problems
00:02:24.11\00:02:26.11
to have a great relationship.
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>> Marlon and Doreen Cliff
00:02:28.68\00:02:30.45
are our special guests on
00:02:30.45\00:02:32.61
It Is Written Canada today.
00:02:32.61\00:02:34.88
They are certified
00:02:34.88\00:02:36.48
Gottman Educators for
00:02:36.48\00:02:38.55
the Seven Principles for
00:02:38.55\00:02:40.09
Making Marriage Work.
00:02:40.09\00:02:41.66
Certified Prepare Enrich
00:02:41.66\00:02:43.59
Facilitators, Caring for the
00:02:43.59\00:02:45.73
Heart Ministries Lay Counselors,
00:02:45.73\00:02:48.43
and marriage wellness coaches.
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>> Marlon and Doreen,
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welcome to It Is Written Canada.
00:02:53.13\00:02:55.77
>> Thank you.
00:02:56.64\00:02:57.37
It's great to be here.
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>> Yes.
00:02:58.27\00:02:59.11
>> Marlon, Doreen, let's begin
00:02:59.11\00:03:00.28
with this question.
00:03:00.28\00:03:01.28
Can you tell us or give us
00:03:01.28\00:03:02.98
some examples of
00:03:02.98\00:03:04.98
perpetual problems that
00:03:04.98\00:03:07.22
typical couples experience?
00:03:07.22\00:03:09.55
>> Sure.
00:03:09.55\00:03:10.32
So in some cases,
00:03:10.32\00:03:11.72
some people are more social and
00:03:11.72\00:03:13.89
some are not.
00:03:13.89\00:03:15.66
>> And some like camping and
00:03:15.66\00:03:18.46
others like five-star resorts.
00:03:18.46\00:03:20.46
>> And some like more
00:03:21.60\00:03:22.76
physical intimacy and some like
00:03:22.76\00:03:24.73
less physical intimacy.
00:03:24.73\00:03:26.40
>> Some are savers,
00:03:26.40\00:03:27.74
some are spenders.
00:03:27.74\00:03:28.97
>> Mmm.
00:03:28.97\00:03:30.07
Some like to travel
00:03:30.07\00:03:31.17
and some like to stay at home.
00:03:31.17\00:03:33.34
>> So there's many different
00:03:33.34\00:03:35.64
perpetual problems within
00:03:35.64\00:03:37.05
relationships.
00:03:37.05\00:03:38.68
But as we coach couples,
00:03:38.68\00:03:40.12
there's always a top three.
00:03:40.12\00:03:42.48
Finances,
00:03:42.48\00:03:44.32
physical intimacy,
00:03:44.32\00:03:46.55
and then adventure.
00:03:46.55\00:03:48.66
>> So, Marlon and Doreen,
00:03:48.66\00:03:50.76
did you have
00:03:50.76\00:03:52.23
any of these perpetual problems
00:03:52.23\00:03:54.46
in your marriage?
00:03:54.46\00:03:55.83
>> We had a lot of them, René,
00:03:55.83\00:03:57.40
yes, many of them.
00:03:57.40\00:03:59.03
>> We did, yeah.
00:03:59.03\00:04:00.77
The biggest one for us,
00:04:00.77\00:04:02.87
one of the biggest we'll pick on
00:04:02.87\00:04:04.57
is travel.
00:04:04.57\00:04:06.34
I was that little girl who would
00:04:06.34\00:04:08.64
sit with the Atlas open
00:04:08.64\00:04:10.11
on my lap, and I would be
00:04:10.11\00:04:11.75
pinpointing all the areas
00:04:11.75\00:04:13.88
that I wanted to travel.
00:04:13.88\00:04:16.12
And I was just dreaming about
00:04:16.12\00:04:17.99
travel, being a missionary.
00:04:17.99\00:04:20.12
But I never had this
00:04:20.12\00:04:21.26
conversation with Marlon
00:04:21.26\00:04:23.49
about what he liked
00:04:23.49\00:04:25.53
about travel,
00:04:25.53\00:04:26.53
even if he even liked it.
00:04:26.53\00:04:27.96
I wasn't sure.
00:04:27.96\00:04:29.50
>> So Marlon, why did you not
00:04:29.50\00:04:31.07
like traveling?
00:04:31.07\00:04:33.10
>> For me, I had an emotional
00:04:33.10\00:04:34.70
disconnection to travel.
00:04:34.70\00:04:35.80
So when we talk about travel,
00:04:35.80\00:04:37.34
it actually triggered fear
00:04:37.34\00:04:38.71
and anxiety in me.
00:04:38.71\00:04:39.87
So I'd actually become anxious.
00:04:39.87\00:04:41.98
A matter of fact, we even had,
00:04:41.98\00:04:43.14
in our fifth year of marriage,
00:04:43.14\00:04:44.78
we had a mission trip planned
00:04:44.78\00:04:46.21
to Belize.
00:04:46.21\00:04:47.45
And we had it all,
00:04:47.45\00:04:48.88
it was all booked, we had
00:04:48.88\00:04:49.98
a plan, we got the training.
00:04:49.98\00:04:51.49
We're getting ready to go
00:04:51.49\00:04:52.55
and we're packed.
00:04:52.55\00:04:53.66
The week before,
00:04:53.66\00:04:54.89
I became so anxious
00:04:54.89\00:04:57.36
that I actually gave my ticket
00:04:57.36\00:04:58.93
to another person
00:04:58.93\00:05:00.46
and my wife traveled without me.
00:05:00.46\00:05:02.83
>> This crushed me
00:05:02.83\00:05:04.80
because I was so looking forward
00:05:04.80\00:05:06.84
to traveling with Marlon
00:05:06.84\00:05:08.47
and seeing the world together,
00:05:08.47\00:05:10.57
helping people in other part of
00:05:10.57\00:05:12.17
the world together.
00:05:12.17\00:05:13.58
So it really impacted me
00:05:13.58\00:05:15.58
at that point.
00:05:15.58\00:05:16.98
>> So some of my fears and
00:05:16.98\00:05:18.01
anxieties came from, you know,
00:05:18.01\00:05:19.51
I was six, my parents separated
00:05:19.51\00:05:20.95
and they got a divorce.
00:05:20.95\00:05:22.22
And so one of them lived
00:05:22.22\00:05:23.99
12 hours away.
00:05:23.99\00:05:25.02
So I would go back and forth.
00:05:25.02\00:05:27.09
So when I was going
00:05:27.09\00:05:28.09
back and forth, one parent
00:05:28.09\00:05:29.16
would be sad and crying and
00:05:29.16\00:05:31.43
the other person would be happy.
00:05:31.43\00:05:32.59
Then when I would go back,
00:05:32.59\00:05:33.63
one person, the other person
00:05:33.63\00:05:34.73
would be crying.
00:05:34.73\00:05:35.70
So it always created this
00:05:35.70\00:05:37.20
travel, just had this anxiety
00:05:37.20\00:05:38.83
and stress that I wasn't
00:05:38.83\00:05:39.90
aware of in our relationship,
00:05:39.90\00:05:40.94
how it impacted me,
00:05:40.94\00:05:41.94
until later on, until after
00:05:41.94\00:05:43.20
we repaired it and we started
00:05:43.20\00:05:44.24
having that dialog,
00:05:44.24\00:05:46.34
uncovering and what we're
00:05:46.34\00:05:47.51
talking about.
00:05:47.51\00:05:48.61
>> So when does
00:05:48.61\00:05:51.08
a- ongoing perpetual problems,
00:05:51.08\00:05:52.85
when does it become
00:05:52.85\00:05:53.95
destructive to the relationship?
00:05:53.95\00:05:56.79
>> Yeah, when it turns into
00:05:56.79\00:05:57.79
gridlock and we no longer accept
00:05:57.79\00:05:59.49
influence from one another,
00:05:59.49\00:06:00.96
it turns into a gridlock
00:06:00.96\00:06:02.06
where we become positional
00:06:02.06\00:06:03.76
instead of, I guess, really
00:06:03.76\00:06:05.86
understanding what the dream is,
00:06:05.86\00:06:07.50
what the need is,
00:06:07.50\00:06:08.86
and to really learn to
00:06:08.86\00:06:10.63
appreciate what's important
00:06:10.63\00:06:12.27
to the other person.
00:06:12.27\00:06:13.34
[RENÉ] Marlon and Doreen,
00:06:13.34\00:06:14.67
can you give us
00:06:14.67\00:06:16.00
a practical way
00:06:16.00\00:06:17.91
of how we can overcome
00:06:17.91\00:06:20.38
gridlock in our relationships?
00:06:20.38\00:06:23.04
>> So gridlock is two people.
00:06:23.58\00:06:25.81
They have their fists closed.
00:06:25.81\00:06:27.65
So what is inside the fist?
00:06:27.65\00:06:29.52
>> Well, it's either a dream
00:06:29.52\00:06:31.35
or a desire.
00:06:31.35\00:06:32.89
Maybe a need.
00:06:32.89\00:06:35.19
>> Yeah, so if we have our,
00:06:35.19\00:06:36.73
both have our fist closed,
00:06:36.73\00:06:38.39
we can't really discover and
00:06:38.39\00:06:39.93
uncover that underlying need
00:06:39.93\00:06:42.20
or desire for travel
00:06:42.20\00:06:44.43
or whatever it was in her case.
00:06:44.43\00:06:46.27
So we kept our fist closed.
00:06:46.27\00:06:48.07
So the only way to,
00:06:48.07\00:06:50.11
is to open up
00:06:50.11\00:06:51.17
where we can both can open up
00:06:51.17\00:06:52.94
and understand and look inside
00:06:52.94\00:06:54.48
and discovered and uncover
00:06:54.48\00:06:55.48
what is that need?
00:06:55.48\00:06:56.71
What is that dream?
00:06:56.71\00:06:58.05
What is the desire?
00:06:58.05\00:06:59.05
So once we...
00:06:59.05\00:06:59.75
>> Maybe a fear.
00:06:59.75\00:07:00.92
>> Or maybe a fear.
00:07:00.92\00:07:02.18
Or in a lot of cases,
00:07:02.18\00:07:04.15
in many couples that we talk to,
00:07:04.15\00:07:06.55
we're in gridlock.
00:07:06.55\00:07:07.86
What if one person
00:07:07.86\00:07:10.09
or both people decide not to
00:07:10.09\00:07:12.73
open up or to
00:07:12.73\00:07:14.86
go from gridlock to exploration?
00:07:14.86\00:07:17.57
So sometimes in the relationship
00:07:17.57\00:07:19.67
only one person chooses.
00:07:19.67\00:07:21.97
So in my case, I chose to
00:07:21.97\00:07:23.64
open up and started to
00:07:23.64\00:07:26.07
dialog and to understand
00:07:26.07\00:07:27.41
what her dream was.
00:07:27.41\00:07:28.54
What was her need?
00:07:28.54\00:07:29.58
What was I not meeting?
00:07:29.58\00:07:31.58
And eventually, as I started to
00:07:31.58\00:07:33.95
care about her heart,
00:07:33.95\00:07:35.18
care about her needs,
00:07:35.18\00:07:36.45
care about her desires,
00:07:36.45\00:07:37.92
she eventually opened up
00:07:37.92\00:07:39.29
as well.
00:07:39.29\00:07:40.12
>> I did.
00:07:40.12\00:07:40.96
>> And then we could
00:07:40.96\00:07:41.99
actually then have that
00:07:41.99\00:07:43.02
conversation of dialog,
00:07:43.02\00:07:44.56
and then we could start meeting
00:07:44.56\00:07:45.66
and understanding each other's
00:07:45.66\00:07:46.76
needs and desires and dreams.
00:07:46.76\00:07:48.80
>> So what kind of questions
00:07:48.80\00:07:50.20
were you asking each other
00:07:50.20\00:07:51.63
so that you could be opening up?
00:07:51.63\00:07:53.03
Or what was happening
00:07:53.03\00:07:54.97
to create that safe place
00:07:54.97\00:07:56.94
or that safe space?
00:07:56.94\00:07:58.44
>> So it was learning and
00:07:58.44\00:08:00.11
understanding, you know,
00:08:00.11\00:08:01.31
what is it in your childhood
00:08:01.31\00:08:02.54
that you desire so much
00:08:02.54\00:08:04.21
to travel?
00:08:04.21\00:08:05.45
So tell me a little bit about
00:08:05.45\00:08:06.41
why do you like to travel
00:08:06.41\00:08:07.38
so much?
00:08:07.38\00:08:08.12
Why is it so important to you?
00:08:08.12\00:08:09.18
>> You know, I discovered that
00:08:09.18\00:08:10.65
for me, travel was kind of a
00:08:10.65\00:08:13.22
part of my spirituality
00:08:13.22\00:08:13.79
part of my spirituality
00:08:13.86\00:08:15.49
and who I was because
00:08:15.49\00:08:18.16
I love to see
00:08:18.16\00:08:19.46
what God has made for me.
00:08:19.46\00:08:20.96
So I wanted to explore
00:08:20.96\00:08:22.36
all different parts of the world
00:08:22.36\00:08:24.10
and really see what
00:08:24.10\00:08:24.43
and really see what
00:08:24.63\00:08:26.00
was there for me to see.
00:08:26.00\00:08:28.34
But part of it was my belief
00:08:28.34\00:08:31.14
of my spirituality,
00:08:31.14\00:08:32.34
where I believe that
00:08:32.34\00:08:34.58
living out my faith
00:08:34.58\00:08:36.31
was to help others.
00:08:36.31\00:08:38.18
So my dream to do mission work
00:08:38.18\00:08:40.72
in combination with travel
00:08:40.72\00:08:43.15
was really a huge dream for me
00:08:43.15\00:08:45.32
to live out my faith
00:08:45.32\00:08:47.52
and put it in action
00:08:47.52\00:08:48.92
and help others.
00:08:48.92\00:08:50.03
>> So how does it make you feel
00:08:50.03\00:08:51.66
when we travel or
00:08:51.66\00:08:52.73
when you travel?
00:08:52.73\00:08:54.30
>> Ahh.
00:08:54.30\00:08:55.46
It fulfills my soul
00:08:55.46\00:08:58.43
and my purpose in life.
00:08:58.43\00:09:00.87
>> I knew it was important,
00:09:00.87\00:09:01.80
but I didn't realize
00:09:01.80\00:09:02.67
how important.
00:09:02.67\00:09:03.54
And it was part of your
00:09:03.54\00:09:04.44
spiritual belief or your beliefs
00:09:04.44\00:09:05.47
and values to travel
00:09:05.47\00:09:06.84
do mission work and just to,
00:09:06.84\00:09:08.88
and to travel with me.
00:09:08.88\00:09:10.08
I didn't realize how
00:09:10.08\00:09:11.18
important it was so, you know,
00:09:11.18\00:09:12.28
will you forgive me for that?
00:09:12.28\00:09:14.22
For not traveling with you?
00:09:14.22\00:09:16.15
>> I will, but you know,
00:09:16.15\00:09:17.52
I wanna go further and I wanna
00:09:17.52\00:09:18.95
understand you, too.
00:09:18.95\00:09:20.96
What's stopping you
00:09:20.96\00:09:22.32
from traveling?
00:09:22.32\00:09:23.39
>> Hmmm.
00:09:23.39\00:09:24.59
Well, really it's sometimes
00:09:24.59\00:09:26.09
I just fear.
00:09:26.09\00:09:27.10
Fear and anxiety.
00:09:27.10\00:09:28.10
I get anxious when we travel.
00:09:28.10\00:09:29.90
When I get close,
00:09:29.90\00:09:30.67
it sounds good and I want to
00:09:30.67\00:09:31.67
do it, but then when we
00:09:31.67\00:09:32.60
get close to the date,
00:09:32.60\00:09:33.64
it just- the anxiety and fear
00:09:33.64\00:09:34.64
builds up in me where I just...
00:09:34.64\00:09:36.27
Yeah, I just got blocked.
00:09:36.87\00:09:38.21
But you know, the Bible says
00:09:38.21\00:09:39.37
perfect love casts out all fear.
00:09:39.37\00:09:41.64
And when I started
00:09:41.64\00:09:42.68
loving my wife and started
00:09:42.68\00:09:43.71
caring about her,
00:09:43.71\00:09:44.75
the love for her was greater
00:09:44.75\00:09:46.18
than the fear that I had
00:09:46.18\00:09:47.75
and I was able to overcome
00:09:47.75\00:09:48.95
by love.
00:09:48.95\00:09:49.95
>> So are we talking about
00:09:49.95\00:09:51.12
negative interactions.
00:09:51.12\00:09:53.29
Are all negative interactions
00:09:53.29\00:09:56.12
equally corrosive?
00:09:56.12\00:09:57.63
Or are there some
00:09:57.63\00:09:59.63
negative interactions that are
00:09:59.63\00:10:00.96
more corrosive than others?
00:10:00.96\00:10:03.20
>> So Dr. John Gottman
00:10:03.20\00:10:04.07
>> So Dr. John Gottman
00:10:04.07\00:10:04.50
identified four horsemen
00:10:04.70\00:10:06.20
of the apocalypse,
00:10:06.20\00:10:07.64
and those four are,
00:10:07.64\00:10:09.10
the first one is criticism...
00:10:09.10\00:10:11.51
[DOREEN] The second one is
00:10:11.51\00:10:12.51
defensiveness.
00:10:12.51\00:10:14.01
[MARLON] And the third one is
00:10:14.01\00:10:16.18
being contemptuous
00:10:16.18\00:10:17.38
or being contempt.
00:10:17.38\00:10:19.18
[DOREEN] And then the fourth one
00:10:19.18\00:10:20.25
is stonewalling or just
00:10:20.25\00:10:22.02
checking out and shutting down.
00:10:22.02\00:10:24.85
>> So, Marlon, you mentioned
00:10:24.85\00:10:26.52
the first horseman.
00:10:26.52\00:10:28.02
So let's take a look at
00:10:28.02\00:10:29.12
the first horseman, which is
00:10:29.12\00:10:30.66
criticism.
00:10:30.66\00:10:32.23
Can you tell us how criticism
00:10:32.23\00:10:34.60
differs from complaining?
00:10:34.60\00:10:37.13
>> Mmm, sure we can talk about
00:10:37.13\00:10:38.67
criticism and a difference
00:10:38.67\00:10:40.40
between a complaint.
00:10:40.40\00:10:41.40
>> Yeah, so criticism is really
00:10:41.40\00:10:43.74
where you're attacking
00:10:43.74\00:10:45.31
your partner's character,
00:10:45.31\00:10:47.88
who they are, whereas
00:10:47.88\00:10:50.61
a complaing is expressing
00:10:50.61\00:10:52.71
a need.
00:10:52.71\00:10:53.78
Now, I was the queen
00:10:53.78\00:10:55.75
of criticism. [laughs]
00:10:55.75\00:10:58.12
I had it down pat
00:10:58.12\00:10:59.95
so well.
00:10:59.95\00:11:01.39
And I am sad to say
00:11:01.39\00:11:03.73
that I really crushed
00:11:03.73\00:11:05.13
my husband's heart
00:11:05.13\00:11:06.49
with criticism routinely.
00:11:06.49\00:11:08.43
You see, I really, I needed
00:11:09.33\00:11:10.73
a man of action.
00:11:10.73\00:11:12.50
And because I was thinking about
00:11:12.50\00:11:15.14
how I did not appreciate
00:11:15.14\00:11:16.74
my husband, it moved me
00:11:16.74\00:11:18.87
into a negative perspective,
00:11:18.87\00:11:20.68
which then piled on
00:11:20.68\00:11:22.04
the bitterness and resentment
00:11:22.04\00:11:23.45
towards my husband.
00:11:23.45\00:11:25.21
So those two are
00:11:25.21\00:11:26.72
very strongly connected.
00:11:26.72\00:11:28.42
If you feel bitterness
00:11:28.42\00:11:29.65
and resentment,
00:11:29.65\00:11:30.75
usually we're critical.
00:11:30.75\00:11:32.89
So this is how I would act out.
00:11:32.89\00:11:34.96
Now...
00:11:35.79\00:11:36.96
...the antidote for criticism
00:11:37.63\00:11:39.96
is that gentle start up,
00:11:39.96\00:11:41.50
which we talked about
00:11:41.50\00:11:42.50
in another episode,
00:11:42.50\00:11:43.50
which is so important.
00:11:43.50\00:11:45.90
So this is how we can do
00:11:45.90\00:11:47.47
a re-do in this situation.
00:11:47.47\00:11:49.40
>> And we do a lot of re-dos
00:11:49.40\00:11:50.64
in our relationship now.
00:11:50.64\00:11:51.97
Thank God for re-dos.
00:11:51.97\00:11:53.44
>> Yeah.
00:11:53.44\00:11:54.41
Honey...
00:11:55.11\00:11:55.94
>> Yes, Dear?
00:11:55.94\00:11:56.81
>> I know I've been really busy
00:11:56.81\00:11:57.88
lately and I so appreciate
00:11:57.88\00:11:59.71
that you're so hard working.
00:11:59.71\00:12:02.05
I really just need to
00:12:02.05\00:12:03.92
have that light bulb
00:12:03.92\00:12:04.99
in the hallway changed.
00:12:04.99\00:12:06.89
Could we take time to do it
00:12:06.89\00:12:08.16
together tonight?
00:12:08.16\00:12:10.03
>> Sure, you know, I just
00:12:10.03\00:12:10.99
have to finish this email
00:12:10.99\00:12:11.99
and give me about five minutes
00:12:11.99\00:12:13.03
and then we can go change it.
00:12:13.03\00:12:14.10
>> Thank you.
00:12:14.10\00:12:15.00
>> Mmm, you're welcome.
00:12:15.00\00:12:16.06
>> So you can see his response
00:12:16.06\00:12:18.13
from that gentle start up.
00:12:18.13\00:12:19.97
And I showed an appreciation.
00:12:19.97\00:12:22.54
Appreciation is so key.
00:12:22.54\00:12:24.44
And this is the one thing
00:12:24.44\00:12:25.47
we stop doing.
00:12:25.47\00:12:27.64
So learning to put
00:12:27.64\00:12:28.68
an appreciation in with
00:12:28.68\00:12:30.71
your complaint or your request
00:12:30.71\00:12:33.42
is very, very key.
00:12:33.42\00:12:35.05
[RENÉ] Then once you have that
00:12:35.05\00:12:36.72
gentle startup where you're
00:12:36.72\00:12:38.42
saying, "I feel," "I need,"
00:12:38.42\00:12:40.86
now Marlon is feeling
00:12:40.86\00:12:42.66
appreciated and you're becoming
00:12:42.66\00:12:45.33
a man of action
00:12:45.33\00:12:46.90
for what you need.
00:12:46.90\00:12:48.23
>> Yes, and I've created that
00:12:48.23\00:12:50.43
safe space with no criticism,
00:12:50.43\00:12:53.40
because once I criticize,
00:12:53.40\00:12:55.10
what's the other person's
00:12:55.10\00:12:56.17
response?
00:12:56.17\00:12:57.04
[MIKE] Mmm, so...
00:12:57.04\00:12:58.71
What? Defensiveness.
00:12:58.71\00:13:00.18
So I was gonna ask that
00:13:00.18\00:13:01.31
question, why is defensiveness
00:13:01.31\00:13:02.48
the next horseman?
00:13:02.48\00:13:03.91
>> Mmm.
00:13:03.91\00:13:04.85
>> Yes.
00:13:04.85\00:13:05.48
>> So defensiveness is when
00:13:05.48\00:13:06.68
we feel attacked,
00:13:06.68\00:13:08.25
we try to protect ourselves
00:13:08.25\00:13:10.15
by attacking back.
00:13:10.15\00:13:11.52
So we become defensive
00:13:11.52\00:13:12.59
and we start blaming
00:13:12.59\00:13:14.86
the other person instead of
00:13:14.86\00:13:16.19
accepting responsibility,
00:13:16.19\00:13:17.39
which is the antidote.
00:13:17.39\00:13:18.46
[MIKE] Mm-hmm.
00:13:18.46\00:13:19.16
So you're saying,
00:13:19.16\00:13:20.20
It's not me, it's you," right?
00:13:20.20\00:13:22.73
"You're the problem, not me."
00:13:22.73\00:13:24.87
Defensiveness is another way of
00:13:24.87\00:13:26.57
saying Why are you
00:13:26.57\00:13:28.34
picking on me all the time?
00:13:28.34\00:13:29.37
So you become the victim, right?
00:13:29.37\00:13:31.87
I'm just never good enough,
00:13:31.87\00:13:33.41
you know, I'm the one who's...
00:13:33.41\00:13:34.74
Yeah.
00:13:34.74\00:13:35.31
>> And I struggle with that
00:13:35.41\00:13:36.34
emotionally, not being
00:13:36.34\00:13:37.38
good enough, not being...
00:13:37.38\00:13:38.61
You know, so that would drive
00:13:38.61\00:13:39.85
my- those feelings of rejection,
00:13:39.85\00:13:42.22
not being good enough.
00:13:42.22\00:13:43.32
So then I would just become
00:13:43.32\00:13:44.62
more and more defensive
00:13:44.62\00:13:45.92
and attack back.
00:13:45.92\00:13:48.02
>> Yeah, and I constantly
00:13:48.02\00:13:49.72
felt like I wasn't being heard
00:13:49.72\00:13:51.99
in that I wasn't important
00:13:51.99\00:13:53.40
and my needs
00:13:53.40\00:13:54.36
didn't mean anything to him.
00:13:54.36\00:13:56.40
So that was kind of the story
00:13:56.40\00:13:57.87
I kept telling myself,
00:13:57.87\00:13:59.07
that I'm not important to him.
00:13:59.07\00:14:00.50
So I would just try to
00:14:00.50\00:14:01.50
speak louder so he could
00:14:01.50\00:14:02.60
hear me better.
00:14:02.60\00:14:04.17
And it just gave
00:14:04.17\00:14:06.24
the opposite effect.
00:14:06.24\00:14:07.41
And that's often what happens,
00:14:07.41\00:14:09.18
what we intend to
00:14:09.18\00:14:10.78
get their attention,
00:14:10.78\00:14:12.65
actually, we get the
00:14:12.65\00:14:13.68
opposite response.
00:14:13.68\00:14:15.82
>> Doreen, you mentioned that
00:14:15.82\00:14:17.22
the antidote for criticism
00:14:17.22\00:14:19.25
was the gentle startup.
00:14:19.25\00:14:20.96
So what is the antidote
00:14:20.96\00:14:22.56
for defensiveness?
00:14:22.56\00:14:23.76
>> Accepting responsibility.
00:14:24.89\00:14:27.13
I would- did not accept
00:14:27.13\00:14:28.20
responsibility for my part
00:14:28.20\00:14:30.00
in the action, so...
00:14:30.00\00:14:31.23
Accepting responsibility
00:14:31.23\00:14:32.73
looks totally different
00:14:32.73\00:14:34.00
for my part of the
00:14:34.00\00:14:36.24
interaction or the conflict.
00:14:36.24\00:14:37.61
So in this example...
00:14:37.61\00:14:39.31
So let's try that again.
00:14:39.31\00:14:40.61
>> Yeah.
00:14:40.61\00:14:41.88
Honey, I asked you to change
00:14:41.88\00:14:43.55
the light bulb a long time ago.
00:14:43.55\00:14:46.48
How come you never do
00:14:46.48\00:14:47.85
what I ask you to do?
00:14:47.85\00:14:49.65
Like you just- you don't care
00:14:49.65\00:14:51.15
about what's important to me.
00:14:51.15\00:14:53.32
>> You know, Honey,
00:14:53.32\00:14:54.22
you're right.
00:14:54.22\00:14:55.09
I'm sorry.
00:14:55.09\00:14:55.92
I completely forgot about it.
00:14:55.92\00:14:57.69
No excuses.
00:14:57.69\00:14:59.79
I should have done it.
00:14:59.79\00:15:00.96
I will go do it right now.
00:15:00.96\00:15:02.60
I'm so sorry.
00:15:02.60\00:15:03.33
>> Really?
00:15:03.33\00:15:03.97
>> Yes.
00:15:03.97\00:15:04.57
>> Okay.
00:15:04.57\00:15:05.30
Well, can I come help you?
00:15:05.30\00:15:07.04
>> Sure, if you'd like.
00:15:07.04\00:15:07.90
That would be fine.
00:15:07.90\00:15:08.74
>> Because I really wanna
00:15:08.74\00:15:09.57
make sure it gets done.
00:15:09.57\00:15:10.87
>> And then you can protect me.
00:15:10.87\00:15:11.87
Hold the ladder for me.
00:15:11.87\00:15:12.91
>> Yes, I'd be happy to do that.
00:15:12.91\00:15:15.08
But you can see how
00:15:15.08\00:15:16.28
we kind of used a bit of humour
00:15:16.28\00:15:18.15
to diffuse it.
00:15:18.15\00:15:18.98
I said, "I really want to
00:15:18.98\00:15:19.98
make sure it gets done,"
00:15:19.98\00:15:21.22
and he didn't take it
00:15:21.22\00:15:22.55
defensively because he was
00:15:22.55\00:15:24.75
owning up to his
00:15:24.75\00:15:26.29
part to play in it.
00:15:26.29\00:15:28.06
And you know, that really
00:15:28.06\00:15:29.39
diffused me.
00:15:29.39\00:15:31.33
So I'm like, Okay,
00:15:31.33\00:15:32.33
he's hearing me.
00:15:32.33\00:15:33.43
I don't need to be critical now.
00:15:33.43\00:15:35.73
>> Any of us can break that
00:15:35.73\00:15:36.90
crazy cycle, we get in that
00:15:36.90\00:15:37.97
crazy cycle of criticism,
00:15:37.97\00:15:40.30
defend.
00:15:40.30\00:15:41.20
It's like, you know,
00:15:41.20\00:15:42.34
playing tennis,
00:15:42.34\00:15:43.37
serving back and forth,
00:15:43.37\00:15:44.64
and it keeps getting
00:15:44.64\00:15:45.54
escalated to escalate,
00:15:45.54\00:15:46.51
which will lead to contempt,
00:15:46.51\00:15:47.41
which we'll be talking
00:15:47.41\00:15:48.28
about next.
00:15:48.28\00:15:49.14
But any of us can break
00:15:49.14\00:15:50.08
the cycle.
00:15:50.08\00:15:50.75
So Doreen can break the cycle
00:15:50.75\00:15:51.78
by using a gentle start up,
00:15:51.78\00:15:52.98
instead of hard startup.
00:15:52.98\00:15:54.25
Or I could end the cycle
00:15:54.25\00:15:55.75
of responding with
00:15:55.75\00:15:57.02
accepting responsibility
00:15:57.02\00:15:58.65
instead of responding with
00:15:58.65\00:15:59.65
defensiveness.
00:15:59.65\00:16:00.52
>> So when you accept
00:16:00.52\00:16:01.56
responsibility, you're saying
00:16:01.56\00:16:02.56
you're sorry.
00:16:02.56\00:16:03.46
And some people, I mean, I just
00:16:03.46\00:16:04.53
talked to someone the other day
00:16:04.53\00:16:05.56
who said, "My dad has never said
00:16:05.56\00:16:07.86
he was sorry for anything."
00:16:07.86\00:16:09.03
And we think,
00:16:09.03\00:16:10.87
Oh, that's a sign of
00:16:10.87\00:16:12.57
strength, but it's actually
00:16:12.57\00:16:13.94
a sign of weakness.
00:16:13.94\00:16:14.97
It's fear.
00:16:14.97\00:16:15.90
It's fear of vulnerability.
00:16:15.90\00:16:17.01
It's fear of saying, Hey, I am
00:16:17.01\00:16:18.57
responsible, because as soon as
00:16:18.57\00:16:20.08
I say I'm responsible,
00:16:20.08\00:16:21.51
I'm sorry, then it's like you
00:16:21.51\00:16:23.28
give the other person
00:16:23.28\00:16:24.35
a measure of strength over you,
00:16:24.35\00:16:26.38
but you actually became
00:16:26.38\00:16:28.02
more gentle when you took
00:16:28.02\00:16:29.42
responsibility and said sorry.
00:16:29.42\00:16:31.05
So...yeah.
00:16:31.05\00:16:32.02
>> It completely diffuses
00:16:32.02\00:16:33.89
the the feelings
00:16:33.89\00:16:36.06
in the room.
00:16:36.06\00:16:37.23
Yeah.
00:16:37.23\00:16:38.33
>> Doreen, the third horsemen
00:16:38.33\00:16:40.63
of the apocalypse according to
00:16:40.63\00:16:42.43
Gottman is contempt.
00:16:42.43\00:16:44.73
What is so terrible
00:16:45.67\00:16:47.44
about contempt?
00:16:47.44\00:16:49.17
>> Oh, contempt is like
00:16:49.17\00:16:51.11
criticism on steroids.
00:16:51.11\00:16:53.78
And he says that
00:16:53.78\00:16:55.71
contempt is the number one
00:16:55.71\00:16:57.65
predictor of divorce.
00:16:57.65\00:16:59.78
So all of these four things,
00:16:59.78\00:17:02.15
the criticism, defensiveness,
00:17:02.15\00:17:03.79
contempt, stonewalling,
00:17:03.79\00:17:05.82
they're things that
00:17:05.82\00:17:07.46
cause a relationship to
00:17:07.46\00:17:08.82
eventually come to an end.
00:17:08.82\00:17:09.92
But contempt is one that
00:17:09.92\00:17:12.63
predicts it will come to an end.
00:17:12.63\00:17:15.50
And sad to say,
00:17:15.50\00:17:17.37
I was contemptuous.
00:17:17.37\00:17:19.73
Which, you know, it makes sense
00:17:19.73\00:17:21.90
because at 24 years,
00:17:21.90\00:17:24.01
our relationship did come
00:17:24.01\00:17:25.61
to an end
00:17:25.61\00:17:27.18
and I was just done.
00:17:27.18\00:17:28.64
I was tired of this, and I had
00:17:28.64\00:17:31.01
started to speak like I was
00:17:31.01\00:17:33.35
more superior than Marlon.
00:17:33.35\00:17:36.22
Put him down so he was
00:17:36.22\00:17:38.02
lower than me.
00:17:38.02\00:17:39.75
And I just treated him
00:17:39.75\00:17:42.06
like he was disgusting to me.
00:17:42.06\00:17:44.66
And I feel such
00:17:44.66\00:17:45.96
remorse for it
00:17:45.96\00:17:47.76
because it really impacted
00:17:47.76\00:17:50.30
his heart and we've had to do
00:17:50.30\00:17:51.67
a lot of repair
00:17:51.67\00:17:53.34
around this contempt that
00:17:53.34\00:17:55.24
happened in our relationship.
00:17:55.24\00:17:57.51
>> It's kind of my way
00:17:57.51\00:17:58.47
or the highway, right?
00:17:58.47\00:17:59.47
>> Very much so, yeah.
00:17:59.47\00:18:01.74
>> The way you did things
00:18:01.74\00:18:03.14
was the right way.
00:18:03.14\00:18:04.21
Mine was the wrong way.
00:18:04.21\00:18:05.91
Even having devotions
00:18:05.91\00:18:06.98
with our kids,
00:18:06.98\00:18:07.92
Well, you didn't do that right.
00:18:07.92\00:18:08.92
Or needs to be- you need to
00:18:08.92\00:18:09.95
do this better to change this.
00:18:09.95\00:18:11.25
And she was like, coming down.
00:18:11.25\00:18:12.59
I was like, I didn't know
00:18:12.59\00:18:13.56
what I was doing.
00:18:13.56\00:18:14.52
So eventually I just said,
00:18:14.52\00:18:15.56
"Okay, well, then you do it."
00:18:15.56\00:18:16.86
So I stopped having
00:18:16.86\00:18:18.03
family devotions with
00:18:18.03\00:18:19.16
my children.
00:18:19.16\00:18:20.10
>> And this is really what
00:18:20.10\00:18:21.63
a lot of content look like
00:18:21.63\00:18:22.96
in our relationship.
00:18:22.96\00:18:24.93
And it revolved around Marlon
00:18:24.93\00:18:27.77
being a man of action for me.
00:18:27.77\00:18:29.64
And I would shut him down.
00:18:29.64\00:18:30.74
I wouldn't give him
00:18:30.74\00:18:31.77
the opportunity.
00:18:31.77\00:18:33.04
So I would criticize
00:18:33.04\00:18:34.84
and when he didn't do things
00:18:34.84\00:18:36.11
for me, then I became
00:18:36.11\00:18:37.71
contemptuous.
00:18:37.71\00:18:39.55
So, Honey...
00:18:39.55\00:18:40.72
>> Yes?
00:18:40.72\00:18:41.75
>> Would you please clean up
00:18:41.75\00:18:43.22
your piles?
00:18:43.22\00:18:44.15
They're everywhere.
00:18:44.15\00:18:45.15
They're on the coffee table,
00:18:45.15\00:18:46.19
the table, you know,
00:18:46.19\00:18:47.22
on the stairs all the way up
00:18:47.22\00:18:48.92
to our bedroom.
00:18:48.92\00:18:49.96
They're everywhere!
00:18:49.96\00:18:51.46
Would you stop being so lazy
00:18:51.46\00:18:53.03
and just get something done?
00:18:53.03\00:18:54.50
I don't get why
00:18:57.03\00:18:59.03
you just can't care about
00:18:59.03\00:19:00.57
anybody other than yourself.
00:19:00.57\00:19:02.57
You're so selfish.
00:19:03.44\00:19:04.71
>> So that would go on.
00:19:06.27\00:19:07.58
And I noticed that Marlon got
00:19:07.58\00:19:10.01
a little quiet there.
00:19:10.01\00:19:11.71
>> We're holding hands now,
00:19:11.71\00:19:13.48
but we probably shouldn't have
00:19:13.48\00:19:14.55
been back then.
00:19:14.55\00:19:15.55
We wouldn't be holding hands,
00:19:15.55\00:19:16.72
right, we would be,
00:19:16.72\00:19:18.29
you know, that chasm
00:19:18.29\00:19:19.95
of emotional disconnect
00:19:19.95\00:19:22.19
just got worse and worse
00:19:22.19\00:19:23.99
because I didn't
00:19:23.99\00:19:25.73
create a safe place for him
00:19:25.73\00:19:28.46
to be able to fulfill my needs.
00:19:28.46\00:19:30.97
It was constant criticism
00:19:30.97\00:19:32.47
which turned to contempt
00:19:32.47\00:19:34.57
all the time.
00:19:34.57\00:19:35.90
And what I was thinking
00:19:35.90\00:19:38.34
is not the positive things
00:19:38.34\00:19:41.34
about Marlon,
00:19:41.34\00:19:42.94
but I was thinking about
00:19:42.94\00:19:43.95
the negative things.
00:19:43.95\00:19:45.11
So the antidote for contempt
00:19:45.11\00:19:47.92
is to put that positivity
00:19:47.92\00:19:49.75
into your relationship,
00:19:49.75\00:19:50.95
to appreciate
00:19:50.95\00:19:53.02
your husband
00:19:53.02\00:19:54.46
or your wife or your child.
00:19:54.46\00:19:56.52
You know, putting that
00:19:56.52\00:19:57.56
positivity into their-
00:19:57.56\00:19:58.89
retraining your
00:19:58.89\00:20:00.93
thought process
00:20:00.93\00:20:02.23
when you start to think
00:20:02.23\00:20:03.43
negatively about that person,
00:20:03.43\00:20:05.40
to say, Okay, there are
00:20:05.40\00:20:06.97
good things and this is
00:20:06.97\00:20:08.54
what I appreciate about him.
00:20:08.54\00:20:11.17
So I had to retrain my brain.
00:20:11.17\00:20:13.17
I had given Marlon a list.
00:20:14.28\00:20:15.88
He asked for reasons why I was
00:20:15.88\00:20:17.68
gonna leave the relationship.
00:20:17.68\00:20:19.31
And I didn't wanna
00:20:20.25\00:20:21.18
give them to him.
00:20:21.18\00:20:22.15
I said, "No, I've told you
00:20:22.15\00:20:23.12
a thousand times,
00:20:23.12\00:20:24.05
You should know
00:20:24.05\00:20:24.95
why I'm leaving."
00:20:24.95\00:20:26.99
Before I left, I decided to
00:20:26.99\00:20:28.29
give him this list
00:20:28.29\00:20:29.69
of all the reasons
00:20:29.69\00:20:31.03
why I was leaving.
00:20:31.03\00:20:32.89
But later on
00:20:32.89\00:20:35.00
I decided to take that same list
00:20:35.00\00:20:37.83
and on the other side of
00:20:37.83\00:20:39.00
each page, write the positive.
00:20:39.00\00:20:41.14
And at that moment
00:20:42.00\00:20:43.74
I realized
00:20:43.74\00:20:45.47
how much positivity there was
00:20:45.47\00:20:48.44
in our relationship.
00:20:48.44\00:20:49.74
>> Amen.
00:20:49.74\00:20:50.71
>> And how much I appreciated
00:20:50.71\00:20:53.45
about him that it
00:20:53.45\00:20:55.25
jarred me for a moment
00:20:55.25\00:20:56.79
to think, What am I doing?
00:20:56.79\00:20:58.45
You know, so appreciating,
00:20:59.65\00:21:02.39
sharing that fondness and
00:21:02.39\00:21:03.66
admiration for the other person
00:21:03.66\00:21:06.23
is so key to do that
00:21:06.23\00:21:08.36
thought turnaround
00:21:08.36\00:21:10.87
in that moment.
00:21:10.87\00:21:12.53
>> So that thought turnaround,
00:21:12.53\00:21:14.27
for some couples when we say
00:21:14.27\00:21:15.90
have that thought turnaround
00:21:15.90\00:21:17.04
and now start-
00:21:17.04\00:21:18.07
You can write them down
00:21:18.07\00:21:19.54
and sometimes the hand can write
00:21:19.54\00:21:21.81
what the mouth can't speak.
00:21:21.81\00:21:23.51
And you start speaking it
00:21:23.51\00:21:25.05
and then some couples say,
00:21:25.05\00:21:26.41
"Well, this just feels phony
00:21:26.41\00:21:28.45
because I just can't get it out.
00:21:28.45\00:21:29.78
It just doesn't seem right,
00:21:29.78\00:21:31.32
like, to do this."
00:21:31.32\00:21:32.35
What do you say to them?
00:21:32.35\00:21:33.66
>> Yeah, so that's a
00:21:33.66\00:21:34.66
good suggestion to start by
00:21:34.66\00:21:36.76
writing it out
00:21:36.76\00:21:38.56
and then getting to the point
00:21:38.56\00:21:40.53
where you're starting to
00:21:40.53\00:21:41.56
speak it and it does feel
00:21:41.56\00:21:43.33
very clunky because we're not
00:21:43.33\00:21:45.47
used to doing it.
00:21:45.47\00:21:46.50
I felt very phony
00:21:46.50\00:21:48.44
when I started to express
00:21:48.44\00:21:49.97
this appreciation.
00:21:49.97\00:21:51.94
But over time,
00:21:51.94\00:21:53.31
we're kind of
00:21:53.31\00:21:55.01
rewiring the neural pathways
00:21:55.01\00:21:56.75
of our brain.
00:21:56.75\00:21:57.85
We're creating- our brains are
00:21:57.85\00:21:58.91
neuroplastic,
00:21:58.91\00:22:00.62
so we can change
00:22:00.62\00:22:02.18
the brain, which is beautiful,
00:22:02.18\00:22:04.32
that God's given that us-
00:22:04.32\00:22:05.85
us that ability.
00:22:05.85\00:22:07.69
So, so important to take that
00:22:07.69\00:22:09.59
step and be vulnerable.
00:22:09.59\00:22:11.96
It feels vulnerable
00:22:11.96\00:22:13.73
to start giving appreciation.
00:22:13.73\00:22:16.03
>> And even in addition to that,
00:22:16.70\00:22:18.27
even receiving
00:22:18.27\00:22:20.40
appreciation or admiration
00:22:20.40\00:22:21.84
can feel a little bit awkward
00:22:21.84\00:22:23.67
at first, right?
00:22:23.67\00:22:24.57
Or maybe, you know,
00:22:24.57\00:22:25.51
I tell my wife, oh,
00:22:25.51\00:22:26.54
how beautiful she looked.
00:22:26.54\00:22:27.48
She said, "Oh, you're so
00:22:27.48\00:22:28.78
delirious."
00:22:28.78\00:22:29.84
So sometimes we're not even
00:22:29.84\00:22:30.85
comfortable accepting
00:22:30.85\00:22:32.55
the admiration and fondness
00:22:32.55\00:22:33.58
to say thank you.
00:22:33.58\00:22:34.62
[DOREEN] Yeah, we just let
00:22:34.62\00:22:35.58
the appreciation bounce off
00:22:35.58\00:22:36.95
our heart.
00:22:36.95\00:22:37.72
>> Because it's so foreign to us
00:22:37.72\00:22:38.59
and we feel, well, maybe it's
00:22:38.59\00:22:39.55
not genuine.
00:22:39.55\00:22:40.39
She doesn't really- she's just
00:22:40.39\00:22:41.39
saying that.
00:22:41.39\00:22:42.29
But again, you know, sometimes,
00:22:42.29\00:22:43.93
you know, our feelings,
00:22:43.93\00:22:46.33
if we allow our feelings to
00:22:46.33\00:22:47.30
control us and we don't
00:22:47.30\00:22:48.16
regulate that, see, our feelings
00:22:48.16\00:22:50.23
will follow action.
00:22:50.23\00:22:51.73
So if we do the action, we speak
00:22:51.73\00:22:53.00
the words, our feelings change.
00:22:53.00\00:22:54.90
You know, we become-
00:22:54.90\00:22:56.07
by beholding we become changed.
00:22:56.07\00:22:57.17
As I beheld the beauty
00:22:57.17\00:22:59.37
and I beheld all the
00:22:59.37\00:23:00.44
good qualities in her,
00:23:00.44\00:23:01.44
I started to believe it and
00:23:01.44\00:23:03.21
started to speak it.
00:23:03.21\00:23:04.25
And it just, it reinforced
00:23:04.25\00:23:05.41
those thoughts so it became
00:23:05.41\00:23:06.88
natural.
00:23:06.88\00:23:07.62
>> It did.
00:23:07.62\00:23:08.45
And I felt it as well,
00:23:08.45\00:23:10.42
that it was genuine from him
00:23:10.42\00:23:12.72
over time.
00:23:12.72\00:23:14.12
>> Stonewalling is the
00:23:14.62\00:23:16.52
fourth horsemen of the
00:23:16.52\00:23:18.33
apocalypse, and it usually
00:23:18.33\00:23:20.83
is a response to contempt.
00:23:20.83\00:23:23.30
Can you tell us a little bit
00:23:23.30\00:23:24.70
more about stonewalling, Marlon?
00:23:24.70\00:23:26.87
>> Yeah, sure.
00:23:26.87\00:23:27.60
So when we were doing
00:23:27.60\00:23:28.97
the example previously
00:23:28.97\00:23:30.31
about the piles, when she was
00:23:30.31\00:23:32.14
acting contemptuous toward me,
00:23:32.14\00:23:34.18
what was I, what was my
00:23:34.18\00:23:35.21
physical language expressing?
00:23:35.21\00:23:37.35
It was, I was looking down.
00:23:37.35\00:23:39.01
I was checking out emotionally.
00:23:39.01\00:23:41.55
Sometimes we'd actually
00:23:41.55\00:23:42.58
check out physically.
00:23:42.58\00:23:43.49
I'd actually leave the house.
00:23:43.49\00:23:44.82
Would go for a walk so that
00:23:44.82\00:23:45.99
I could get away from it.
00:23:45.99\00:23:47.39
But whether we're checking out
00:23:47.39\00:23:48.46
emotionally or physically,
00:23:48.46\00:23:50.03
it's just withdrawing from it
00:23:50.03\00:23:51.69
because we're trying to
00:23:51.69\00:23:52.63
protect our hearts
00:23:52.63\00:23:53.53
so we can protect from the,
00:23:53.53\00:23:54.50
you know, this aggressive attack
00:23:54.50\00:23:56.13
and making our feelings of
00:23:56.13\00:23:57.73
low self-worth even go lower.
00:23:57.73\00:24:00.57
So, you know, this is an issue,
00:24:00.57\00:24:02.37
especially with men.
00:24:02.37\00:24:03.57
Research has shown that
00:24:03.57\00:24:04.71
85% of men actually are
00:24:04.71\00:24:07.58
the stonewallers
00:24:07.58\00:24:08.61
in the relationship.
00:24:08.61\00:24:09.44
They're the ones that are
00:24:09.44\00:24:10.35
checking out emotionally
00:24:10.35\00:24:11.68
or physically.
00:24:11.68\00:24:12.55
So it was something that
00:24:12.55\00:24:13.82
I was doing and part of the
00:24:13.82\00:24:15.42
relationship was a problem.
00:24:15.42\00:24:16.75
I would just withdraw.
00:24:16.75\00:24:17.72
So the antidote for that is
00:24:17.72\00:24:18.15
So the antidote for that is
00:24:18.39\00:24:19.15
actually what they call
00:24:19.15\00:24:20.79
self-soothing,
00:24:20.79\00:24:22.09
where I would learn to
00:24:22.09\00:24:23.99
manage or regulate my emotions
00:24:23.99\00:24:26.96
by doing, maybe I?o for
00:24:26.96\00:24:28.10
a 20-minute walk,
00:24:28.10\00:24:29.13
and research is shown
00:24:29.13\00:24:30.37
that when we start flooding,
00:24:30.37\00:24:32.00
when our heart rate goes above
00:24:32.00\00:24:33.27
95 to 100 beats per minute,
00:24:33.27\00:24:35.40
you know, the hormones, cortisol
00:24:35.40\00:24:37.01
and adrenaline and start to go
00:24:37.01\00:24:38.07
and it kind of washes out
00:24:38.07\00:24:39.31
that frontal lobe and we don't
00:24:39.31\00:24:40.71
become rational anymore.
00:24:40.71\00:24:41.78
So that's the, you know,
00:24:41.78\00:24:42.94
we halt, we take a break
00:24:42.94\00:24:44.61
from the conflict
00:24:44.61\00:24:45.91
and we step back
00:24:45.91\00:24:47.32
and maybe I'll go for a walk
00:24:47.32\00:24:48.38
or listen to some relaxing music
00:24:48.38\00:24:50.15
or something.
00:24:50.15\00:24:51.02
Something to- or read something
00:24:51.02\00:24:52.79
from the Bible, meditation,
00:24:52.79\00:24:54.36
you know, so that my mindset
00:24:54.36\00:24:55.76
can change and reset
00:24:55.76\00:24:57.89
so that I can come back
00:24:57.89\00:24:59.29
and have that conversation in a
00:24:59.29\00:25:01.60
logical, emotionally controlled
00:25:01.60\00:25:04.40
situation.
00:25:04.40\00:25:05.90
[DOREEN] So when women get to
00:25:05.90\00:25:07.30
the point where they stonewall,
00:25:07.30\00:25:09.37
research has shown that
00:25:09.37\00:25:10.64
it's over
00:25:10.64\00:25:11.31
it's over.
00:25:11.31\00:25:12.37
Because women don't normally
00:25:12.37\00:25:13.48
stonewall.
00:25:13.48\00:25:14.84
So I started to stonewall
00:25:14.84\00:25:17.81
and I started to withdraw
00:25:17.81\00:25:18.75
and I started to withdraw
00:25:18.75\00:25:20.42
and not be in
00:25:20.42\00:25:23.08
the world of
00:25:23.08\00:25:24.22
the Cliff family anymore.
00:25:24.22\00:25:25.65
I would take care of the
00:25:25.65\00:25:26.69
children, but we did everything
00:25:26.69\00:25:28.82
separately and I started to
00:25:28.82\00:25:30.56
just stonewall Marlon.
00:25:30.56\00:25:31.99
I wouldn't speak to him.
00:25:31.99\00:25:33.36
I wouldn't do anything with him.
00:25:33.36\00:25:35.86
I just did things with the kids.
00:25:35.86\00:25:37.80
So at that point,
00:25:38.60\00:25:41.00
our relationship did
00:25:41.00\00:25:42.07
come to an end once I
00:25:42.07\00:25:43.47
started to stonewall.
00:25:43.47\00:25:44.71
>> Mmm.
00:25:44.71\00:25:45.91
And we've come to the end of
00:25:45.91\00:25:48.84
our time together,
00:25:48.84\00:25:50.05
unfortunately.
00:25:50.05\00:25:51.25
But you've really
00:25:51.25\00:25:53.78
outlined very nicely for us
00:25:53.78\00:25:55.28
how conflict is inevitable,
00:25:55.28\00:25:57.65
but combat is optional.
00:25:57.65\00:26:00.39
And you don't have to get
00:26:00.39\00:26:01.52
into that.
00:26:01.52\00:26:02.22
>> Marlon and Doreen,
00:26:02.22\00:26:03.29
thank you so much for joining us
00:26:03.29\00:26:05.16
on It Is Written Canada today.
00:26:05.16\00:26:07.50
>> You're welcome.
00:26:07.50\00:26:08.26
>> Thank you.
00:26:08.26\00:26:09.26
>> Friends, we live in
00:26:09.86\00:26:11.37
challenging times.
00:26:11.37\00:26:12.80
Our lives are saturated
00:26:12.80\00:26:14.40
by information, activities,
00:26:14.40\00:26:15.97
and senseless expectations.
00:26:15.97\00:26:18.57
So the stresses of life
00:26:18.57\00:26:20.71
make healthy relationships
00:26:20.71\00:26:23.18
more difficult to achieve
00:26:23.18\00:26:25.31
and sustain.
00:26:25.31\00:26:27.22
So our free offer
00:26:27.22\00:26:28.78
for you is
00:26:28.78\00:26:30.12
Hope For Today's Families.
00:26:30.12\00:26:33.09
>> Husbands and wives,
00:26:33.09\00:26:34.89
as well as parents and children
00:26:34.89\00:26:37.29
and other family members
00:26:37.29\00:26:39.36
live under the same roof
00:26:39.36\00:26:41.63
but tend to communicate poorly
00:26:41.63\00:26:44.37
at best.
00:26:44.37\00:26:46.17
Many want the stability
00:26:46.17\00:26:47.87
of a strong family life,
00:26:47.87\00:26:49.87
but don't know how to
00:26:49.87\00:26:51.67
attain it.
00:26:51.67\00:26:52.94
>> Hope For Today's Families
00:26:52.94\00:26:54.64
will help you build
00:26:54.64\00:26:56.41
strong relationships
00:26:56.41\00:26:58.21
with those around you.
00:26:58.21\00:27:00.05
Show how husbands and wives
00:27:00.05\00:27:02.42
can draw closer emotionally,
00:27:02.42\00:27:04.45
spiritually, financially,
00:27:04.45\00:27:06.65
and intellectually.
00:27:06.65\00:27:08.52
>> And it will also help you
00:27:08.52\00:27:10.19
to communicate more effectively,
00:27:10.19\00:27:12.79
understand and heal the roots
00:27:12.79\00:27:14.83
of violence, prevent distress
00:27:14.83\00:27:17.10
and divorce, or live happily
00:27:17.10\00:27:19.90
as a single person.
00:27:19.90\00:27:21.80
>> Before you go, we would
00:27:21.80\00:27:23.77
like to thank all of you
00:27:23.77\00:27:25.67
who have supported the ministry
00:27:25.67\00:27:27.21
of It Is Written Canada
00:27:27.21\00:27:28.31
with your prayers
00:27:28.31\00:27:29.38
and financial contributions.
00:27:29.38\00:27:31.45
Without your support,
00:27:31.45\00:27:32.85
this television ministry
00:27:32.85\00:27:35.05
could not have reached
00:27:35.05\00:27:37.09
so many people
00:27:37.09\00:27:38.55
for so many decades.
00:27:38.55\00:27:40.86
>> And we would also like to
00:27:40.86\00:27:42.29
invite you to follow us on
00:27:42.29\00:27:44.13
Instagram and Facebook,
00:27:44.13\00:27:46.76
and subscribe to our
00:27:46.76\00:27:47.96
YouTube channel, and also
00:27:47.96\00:27:50.13
listen to our podcasts.
00:27:50.13\00:27:52.70
And if you go to our website,
00:27:52.70\00:27:54.74
you can see our latest programs.
00:27:54.74\00:27:57.34
>> Friends, to be honest,
00:27:58.37\00:27:59.51
Jesus is offering you a life
00:27:59.51\00:28:01.84
that is beyond our
00:28:01.84\00:28:03.95
ongoing struggles with pain,
00:28:03.95\00:28:06.48
suffering, and the sorrows
00:28:06.48\00:28:08.65
of this life.
00:28:08.65\00:28:09.98
We would like to recommend
00:28:09.98\00:28:11.29
that you open the Bible
00:28:11.29\00:28:13.46
where it is recorded that
00:28:13.46\00:28:15.02
Jesus Himself found
00:28:15.02\00:28:16.69
His assurance to defeat
00:28:16.69\00:28:18.23
the devil through the Word
00:28:18.23\00:28:20.16
of His Father
00:28:20.16\00:28:21.50
when He declared...
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[gentle music]
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¤¤
00:28:34.74\00:28:37.75