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>> Welcome to
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It Is Written Canada.
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Thank you for joining us.
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I know you probably believe in
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life after death,
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but what about life after debt?
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Is there life after debt?
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>> The truth is
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that most Canadians
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don't see a time in their lives
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when they will be able to
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live without debt.
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Car payments, credit card
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payments, student loans...
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The list goes on and on.
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Is it possible to really live
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and not be in debt?
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Our special guest
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on It Is Written Canada today,
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Sven Tornlov, believes that
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it is not only possible...
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...Sven believes that we are not
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really living until
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we are out of debt.
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>> When it comes to finances,
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Sven Tornlov is a
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financial expert who we trust.
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Sven is the Associate Treasurer
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and Planned Giving Director of
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the Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in the British Columbia
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and Yukon Conference.
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He has a bachelor's degree in
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business administration
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from Walla Walla University.
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>> Sven, thank you so much
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for joining us on
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It Is Written Canada.
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>> Thank you for the invite
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and for being able to talk about
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subjects that I'm
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passionate about.
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>> And finances is a big one.
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So, and you're really
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good at it.
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So debt, when you talk about
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debt, some people think like
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you just have to, you're always
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gonna have payments.
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Is there life after debt
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and what would that look like?
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>> So debt, you're right,
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is very debilitating.
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And I would like to frame that,
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you know, with a verse from
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the Bible.
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And...
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...it's found in Philippians...
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...4...
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...verses 6 and 7.
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And this is the framework
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I think we need to always keep,
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you know, our finances into
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perspective, especially with
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talking about debt.
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Yeah, there is.
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There is life after debt.
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But to get over that hump,
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to climb that mountain
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can be a very painful process.
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>> Sven, where does a person
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start when they want to
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get out of debt?
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>> When a person wants to
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get out of debt, I think it is a
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very calculated,
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systematic process that a person
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has to follow if they are truly
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in earnest and sincere
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in wanting to get out of debt.
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So number one, before a person
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can think about
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getting out of debt,
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you need to stop going further
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into debt.
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So if you're going into debt,
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you know, because of your
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credit cards,
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you have to figure out a plan,
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you know, through your budget
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and systematically stop
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going further into debt.
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So if we're talking about,
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you know, owning a home
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or owning a vehicle, you know,
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there's an asset that is
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against that debt.
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So really, I don't think we're
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talking about that type of debt.
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Now, there are, you know,
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pitfalls of buying
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too much of a house or buying
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too much of a car.
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You know, when I buy a car,
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at times, at the very beginning,
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the bank might own 95% of that
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car, and I own 5% equity share,
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right?
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And then as time goes on,
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at year three or whatever,
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we might be equal partners,
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50-50, and so forth.
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That's not the debt that we're
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talking about.
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I think we're talking about
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uninsured debt.
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Debt where I have accumulated...
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...by purchasing consumable
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items and then not paying off
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my monthly credit card.
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>> It is possible to
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live without debt.
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Under certain circumstances,
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it's hard to avoid specifically,
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let's say, for students that are
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coming out of medical school.
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They're coming out of school
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with a lot of debt, right,
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and it's gonna take some time
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to pay that off.
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But as long as you're diligent
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and you're consistent and
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you're frugal with your money
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while paying off debt, it is
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possible to come out of it.
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You know, there is talk
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in the Bible about
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serving two masters, right?
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It's not possible.
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It's either God
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or something else.
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And sometimes we can think of
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that something else as
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the love for money.
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But a master in your life
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can also be debt.
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It's something that looms
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over your head.
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It's something that consumes
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your thoughts.
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Your every decision really
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will start to revolve around
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paying off the money
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that you're in debt with, right?
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So you want to be really careful
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within all your means and
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within all possibility
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to stay away from it.
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So the concept is to spend less
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than you make, right?
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It sounds easy.
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It sounds, Okay, I can do that,
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right?
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But sometimes the easiest
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lessons are the hardest
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to implement.
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You know, God tells us
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to love your neighbour.
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And we hear that and we think,
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Okay, I can do that.
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That's super easy.
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I mean, how hard can it be?
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And the second that you actually
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have to put that intentionality,
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that time to really love
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your neighbour, like what does
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that look like?
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Sometimes you can live for years
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in a neighbourhood and
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never have to talk to our
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neighbours once, right?
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But God tells us these things,
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and He gives us these tips
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in the Bible.
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So, you know, spend less
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than you're making.
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And that is a possibility.
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You just have to really
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ground yourself when it comes to
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your spending habits and
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check yourself.
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Be accountable with yourself.
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And if that calls for having a
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person be accountable with you,
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whether that's your spouse,
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your parent, a trusted mentor.
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Ask for help.
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Ask people to call you out
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when they see you spending on
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things that you don't need.
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You know we're our
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brother's keeper.
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So really be on the lookout
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within the people that you love
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and in your spaces, to be
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careful with the way that you
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spend your money so you don't
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fall into that trap of debt.
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[SVEN] So now I need to go to
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the next phase.
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Can I, by some means,
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Can I, by some means,
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increase my income
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so that I can start paying back
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the debt.
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So can I start- can I increase
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my income somehow?
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And for some people, that is
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difficult by the type of job
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they have.
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But if they are maybe
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self-employed or if their
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employer allows them
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to work overtime,
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or if they work in the trades,
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you know, they might pick up
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something in the evening
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or on the weekends,
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do do side jobs, you know,
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so now they've increased income.
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So if you can do that,
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wonderful, if you can't, well
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now let's look at the other side
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of the equation.
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What about reducing expenses?
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Really go through a needs versus
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wants analysis.
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I think that is so important.
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You know, go to every room
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in your house,
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physically go there
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and just put your hand
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and point, is that a want
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or is that a need?
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Is that a want
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or is that a need?
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Now, when I go to
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my wife's closet, now I want to
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stay married and so I don't
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wanna be too finger-pointing,
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but it's pretty easy for me
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to point out my wife's wants.
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And hence when she goes to the
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garage, it's pretty easy
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for my wife to point out
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my wants versus my needs.
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And so really doing a really
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strong wants versus needs
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analysis and reducing
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some expenses in your budget.
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As a quick sidebar, you know,
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when my daughter was
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four years old, my wife had just
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given birth to our second child.
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And so my daughter and I,
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we had the opportunity to go
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grocery shopping together.
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And I wanted to teach her
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needs versus wants.
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And so it was always a special
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time for her and I to go.
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And so this one time we were
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at Superstore, and I had
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pumped her up all the way to
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Superstore that we were gonna
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get absolutely everything
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that she needed.
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She was so excited because she
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knows, even at four years old,
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that there's an aisle
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at Superstore, which is called
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the junk food aisle.
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Now, we don't indulge on that
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aisle very much, but I think
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that's where her mind was going,
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everything we needed.
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And so she said- I said, "Well,
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let's go there first.
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I'll follow you."
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And so right away we went
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to that aisle and her eyes
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were huge and she said,
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"Really, Dad?
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Everything we need?"
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And I said, "Yeah."
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So I mean, she didn't load
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the cart, but sure, she took
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a couple bags of chips off.
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There was a thing of pop,
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you know, she put that in the
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buggy, and then we got down to
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where the candy was and the
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chocolate bars, and she put
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a few things in there, and she
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just couldn't believe
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that we were getting everything
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that she needed.
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We got to the end of the aisle
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and I knelt down beside her,
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and she still remembers this,
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I mean, this is a scar that
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she has to bear.
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And I put my arm around her
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and I said, "Sweetie,
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do we need this?
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Or do we want this?"
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So I pulled out the piece of
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paper that mom had made
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for our list of groceries
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that we needed,
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and she had a few tears.
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And together we put the wants
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back on the shelves.
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And so for her
00:10:09.94\00:10:10.97
at a very young age to do that
00:10:10.97\00:10:12.54
needs versus wants analysis.
00:10:12.54\00:10:14.21
You know, when we go to the
00:10:14.21\00:10:15.48
grocery store now,
00:10:15.48\00:10:17.28
it's a challenge because if I
00:10:17.28\00:10:19.25
see something that I want,
00:10:19.25\00:10:21.38
she's very quick to point out,
00:10:21.38\00:10:23.45
"Dad, I don't think that's on
00:10:23.45\00:10:25.22
Mom's list of needs."
00:10:25.22\00:10:26.65
[laughs]
00:10:26.65\00:10:27.59
So what do you do?
00:10:27.59\00:10:28.49
You have to honour it.
00:10:28.49\00:10:29.46
You have to put it back,
00:10:29.46\00:10:30.66
and then you have to tell
00:10:30.66\00:10:31.53
your wife, you know, just
00:10:31.53\00:10:32.49
put a few what's on that list,
00:10:32.49\00:10:34.00
you know?
00:10:34.00\00:10:34.83
Come on.
00:10:34.83\00:10:35.60
So go to that wants and needs
00:10:35.60\00:10:37.10
versus analysis in your own home
00:10:37.10\00:10:39.13
and reduce your expenses.
00:10:39.13\00:10:42.10
That is gonna free up money
00:10:42.10\00:10:43.47
at the end of the month that
00:10:43.47\00:10:44.54
you can then start paying down
00:10:44.54\00:10:46.64
more of what you owe.
00:10:46.64\00:10:47.41
more of what you owe.
00:10:47.41\00:10:48.68
[DENNIS] Small changes bring
00:10:49.34\00:10:51.65
big results,
00:10:51.65\00:10:53.65
and it's pretty exciting
00:10:53.65\00:10:55.85
to see the transformation
00:10:55.85\00:10:57.05
that's possible.
00:10:57.05\00:10:58.25
Take the receipts,
00:10:58.25\00:10:59.42
put it in a basket,
00:10:59.42\00:11:02.09
write down where you spent.
00:11:02.09\00:11:04.43
Everybody knows
00:11:04.43\00:11:06.13
the income they're gonna get.
00:11:06.13\00:11:07.30
That's the easiest part.
00:11:07.30\00:11:09.26
Most people don't know
00:11:09.26\00:11:11.10
where they spend their money.
00:11:11.10\00:11:13.07
So by just doing it
00:11:13.07\00:11:14.47
one week, one day at a time...
00:11:14.47\00:11:17.14
...then all of a sudden you're
00:11:18.34\00:11:19.37
building on something
00:11:19.37\00:11:20.38
so that now you have a picture.
00:11:20.38\00:11:21.51
And when they do that,
00:11:21.51\00:11:23.61
they always come back and say,
00:11:23.61\00:11:25.05
"I had no idea."
00:11:25.05\00:11:26.45
If you were to look forward
00:11:26.45\00:11:27.62
over the next five, ten,
00:11:27.62\00:11:29.42
15 years
00:11:29.42\00:11:31.12
of the things in life
00:11:31.12\00:11:32.79
that were most important
00:11:32.79\00:11:34.96
for you that you want to achieve
00:11:34.96\00:11:37.13
that if you didn't,
00:11:37.13\00:11:39.36
you don't wanna kick yourself
00:11:39.36\00:11:40.40
in the bum.
00:11:40.40\00:11:41.33
You'd be just devastated
00:11:41.33\00:11:42.90
for not being able to
00:11:42.90\00:11:44.67
achieve these particular events
00:11:44.67\00:11:47.17
in your life.
00:11:47.17\00:11:48.87
What would that look like?
00:11:48.87\00:11:50.37
Make a list.
00:11:51.57\00:11:53.48
Put a date.
00:11:53.48\00:11:55.41
And then prioritize them.
00:11:55.41\00:11:57.08
The second part of
00:11:58.41\00:11:59.41
the exercise...
00:11:59.41\00:12:00.52
...is once you have
00:12:01.62\00:12:02.98
those priorities...
00:12:02.98\00:12:04.39
...and then now look
00:12:05.22\00:12:07.82
at your current spending,
00:12:07.82\00:12:10.59
and then ask the question,
00:12:10.59\00:12:12.23
are the things that I'm
00:12:12.23\00:12:13.70
spontaneously purchasing now...
00:12:13.70\00:12:16.60
...am I willing to postpone
00:12:17.47\00:12:19.57
these are things I said
00:12:19.57\00:12:20.64
were so important
00:12:20.64\00:12:22.80
based upon what I'm
00:12:22.80\00:12:23.94
spending today.
00:12:23.94\00:12:25.57
In other words, I'm not-
00:12:25.57\00:12:27.21
we're not telling the person no.
00:12:28.18\00:12:30.21
What we're really saying is
00:12:31.55\00:12:34.52
direct your money to what's
00:12:34.52\00:12:36.45
most important to you.
00:12:36.45\00:12:39.02
Now, all of a sudden,
00:12:39.02\00:12:40.82
when it comes time to deciding
00:12:40.82\00:12:43.02
how you wanna spend your money,
00:12:43.02\00:12:45.73
you now actually have a guide
00:12:45.73\00:12:48.43
of why you're making the
00:12:48.43\00:12:50.93
decisions you're making
00:12:50.93\00:12:53.54
versus having absolutely no
00:12:53.54\00:12:56.04
thought or idea around it.
00:12:56.04\00:12:57.77
Start first with where you
00:12:58.64\00:12:59.71
wanna be...
00:12:59.71\00:13:00.91
...and then come back with those
00:13:01.48\00:13:02.84
priorities and look at
00:13:02.84\00:13:05.15
where you are.
00:13:05.15\00:13:06.28
And if you're still short,
00:13:07.28\00:13:09.72
then look at...
00:13:09.72\00:13:11.22
...what are some opportunities
00:13:12.72\00:13:13.96
to potentially make some
00:13:13.96\00:13:15.46
additional money.
00:13:15.46\00:13:17.03
Write them down step by step.
00:13:17.03\00:13:19.73
Now put a time frame
00:13:19.73\00:13:21.93
of what those steps are.
00:13:21.93\00:13:24.07
So now you're putting it into
00:13:24.07\00:13:26.00
small little steps
00:13:26.00\00:13:28.37
that you now can follow
00:13:28.37\00:13:30.04
for the first time.
00:13:30.04\00:13:31.51
But you're always doing it
00:13:31.51\00:13:33.58
in the context of where
00:13:33.58\00:13:35.61
you want to be.
00:13:35.61\00:13:37.91
And that totally
00:13:37.91\00:13:40.22
changes the framework...
00:13:40.22\00:13:43.08
...and it makes you feel better.
00:13:44.32\00:13:46.25
>> We've all heard the analysis
00:13:48.82\00:13:50.23
of, Okay, I have a number of
00:13:50.23\00:13:51.86
places and where I have debts,
00:13:51.86\00:13:53.19
where I carry debts,
00:13:53.19\00:13:54.30
you may be a line of credit,
00:13:54.30\00:13:55.33
maybe through a credit card.
00:13:55.33\00:13:57.13
Which one do I pay off first?
00:13:57.13\00:13:59.67
Do I pay off the largest debt
00:13:59.67\00:14:01.60
first, do I pay off the
00:14:01.60\00:14:02.80
smallest one first?
00:14:02.80\00:14:03.81
Do I pay off the one with the
00:14:03.81\00:14:04.84
largest amount of increase
00:14:04.84\00:14:06.44
or the smallest amount of
00:14:06.44\00:14:07.51
the increase?
00:14:07.51\00:14:08.48
And, you know, there is
00:14:08.48\00:14:10.98
a theoretical, a mathematical
00:14:10.98\00:14:12.61
answer to that question,
00:14:12.61\00:14:13.98
but I think it has to go
00:14:13.98\00:14:15.32
further than that.
00:14:15.32\00:14:16.69
It has to be, you know,
00:14:16.69\00:14:17.95
what type of personality
00:14:17.95\00:14:19.09
are you, what suits you best?
00:14:19.09\00:14:21.29
If you are a type of
00:14:21.29\00:14:22.32
personality where at the end of
00:14:22.32\00:14:23.76
the day, you don't need to see
00:14:23.76\00:14:25.76
how much fence you've built,
00:14:25.76\00:14:27.96
then you need to pay off
00:14:27.96\00:14:29.40
the debt that has the highest
00:14:29.40\00:14:30.63
interest rate on it.
00:14:30.63\00:14:32.07
Because mathematically you will
00:14:32.07\00:14:33.23
pay that off first.
00:14:33.23\00:14:34.37
But if you're the type of person
00:14:34.37\00:14:35.90
that takes gratification
00:14:35.90\00:14:37.77
in seeing that mile of fence
00:14:37.77\00:14:39.97
that you built that day,
00:14:39.97\00:14:42.38
then you need these rewards.
00:14:42.38\00:14:44.51
And so you should be paying off
00:14:44.51\00:14:46.38
the smallest debt first,
00:14:46.38\00:14:47.65
regardless of the interest rate,
00:14:47.65\00:14:49.18
so that you have these successes
00:14:49.18\00:14:51.32
along the way.
00:14:51.32\00:14:52.95
Because that is key.
00:14:52.95\00:14:53.99
Because at the end of the day,
00:14:53.99\00:14:55.22
what do we want?
00:14:55.22\00:14:56.09
What do we want to accomplish?
00:14:56.09\00:14:57.09
>> We want to get out of debt.
00:14:57.09\00:14:58.29
>> Exactly.
00:14:58.29\00:14:59.03
We want to get out of debt.
00:14:59.03\00:15:00.06
So that's why it's called
00:15:00.06\00:15:01.23
personal finance.
00:15:01.23\00:15:02.93
What's personal for you
00:15:02.93\00:15:04.37
is different than for me.
00:15:04.37\00:15:07.24
And so your strategy is gonna be
00:15:07.24\00:15:09.77
different than mine,
00:15:09.77\00:15:10.77
just as long as it works for you
00:15:10.77\00:15:12.54
and you stick to it
00:15:12.54\00:15:13.58
and you adhere to that strategy.
00:15:13.58\00:15:15.14
>> I believe there's two main
00:15:16.24\00:15:17.75
ways that you can look at it.
00:15:17.75\00:15:19.25
These are very broad concepts,
00:15:19.25\00:15:21.15
and I would definitely suggest,
00:15:21.15\00:15:22.92
you know, like looking at
00:15:22.92\00:15:24.15
your specific situation.
00:15:24.15\00:15:25.69
But the two ways are
00:15:25.69\00:15:27.32
what's called a debt snowball
00:15:27.32\00:15:29.19
and a debt avalanche.
00:15:29.19\00:15:30.93
So with the snowball effect,
00:15:30.93\00:15:32.59
that's paying off
00:15:32.59\00:15:33.70
your smaller debts first.
00:15:33.70\00:15:35.23
So sometimes we can think that
00:15:35.23\00:15:36.80
that's more psychologically
00:15:36.80\00:15:38.50
satisfying because you're able
00:15:38.50\00:15:39.67
to check things off your list
00:15:39.67\00:15:41.00
faster, you're able to pay off
00:15:41.00\00:15:42.44
things faster.
00:15:42.44\00:15:43.74
And this could be a good
00:15:43.74\00:15:45.07
decision if you only have
00:15:45.07\00:15:46.54
a few small debts,
00:15:46.54\00:15:47.71
like credit card.
00:15:47.71\00:15:48.74
That's something you can pay off
00:15:48.74\00:15:49.91
right away.
00:15:49.91\00:15:51.01
But when it comes to larger
00:15:51.01\00:15:52.98
amounts of debt, that's what's
00:15:52.98\00:15:54.38
called the debt avalanche.
00:15:54.38\00:15:55.92
So you're trying to pay off
00:15:55.92\00:15:57.55
areas in your life that you
00:15:57.55\00:15:59.22
have debt with that have
00:15:59.22\00:16:00.59
higher interest rates.
00:16:00.59\00:16:02.09
So yes, this may take longer,
00:16:02.09\00:16:04.03
but in the long run, you're
00:16:04.03\00:16:05.13
getting rid of the biggest thing
00:16:05.13\00:16:06.33
that you owe first, and then
00:16:06.33\00:16:07.60
you're making your way down to
00:16:07.60\00:16:08.90
your smaller debts after.
00:16:08.90\00:16:10.57
But once again, it really
00:16:10.57\00:16:11.67
depends on your situation, what
00:16:11.67\00:16:13.20
you can handle in the meantime,
00:16:13.20\00:16:15.04
and what season of life
00:16:15.04\00:16:16.17
you're in, how much you're
00:16:16.17\00:16:17.44
making at that time, if your
00:16:17.44\00:16:18.94
spouse has additional debt,
00:16:18.94\00:16:20.38
now you're married and
00:16:20.38\00:16:21.58
now the two of you have debt.
00:16:21.58\00:16:22.78
So it really just depends on
00:16:22.78\00:16:24.85
your specific situation
00:16:24.85\00:16:27.02
and just turn to God
00:16:27.02\00:16:28.22
for guidance, turn to people
00:16:28.22\00:16:29.38
that can help you out.
00:16:29.38\00:16:30.69
>> So once you've now
00:16:32.49\00:16:34.66
maximized your income,
00:16:34.66\00:16:35.89
minimized your expenses,
00:16:35.89\00:16:37.33
you know which debts you wanna
00:16:37.33\00:16:38.99
pay off and you're
00:16:38.99\00:16:39.89
paying them off.
00:16:39.89\00:16:40.76
But let's say you're still
00:16:40.76\00:16:41.80
not able to pay off your debt.
00:16:41.80\00:16:44.17
What is your next step?
00:16:44.17\00:16:45.23
Where do you turn to next?
00:16:45.23\00:16:46.57
Well, you might what's called
00:16:46.57\00:16:48.44
an informal proposal.
00:16:48.44\00:16:50.84
You might call up some of your
00:16:50.84\00:16:52.31
creditors and say, you know,
00:16:52.31\00:16:54.38
"Hey, I owe on my credit card
00:16:54.38\00:16:56.98
and you're charging me
00:16:56.98\00:16:58.95
20% interest in round numbers."
00:16:58.95\00:17:00.78
It's even more than 20%
00:17:00.78\00:17:02.02
if you carry a balance.
00:17:02.02\00:17:03.99
And you can say to them,
00:17:03.99\00:17:05.12
you know, "I really want to
00:17:05.12\00:17:06.19
pay you back, but if you could
00:17:06.19\00:17:07.39
reduce that interest rate,
00:17:07.39\00:17:09.49
that will help me."
00:17:09.49\00:17:11.43
You turn your credit card over,
00:17:11.43\00:17:12.63
there's 1-800 number you call
00:17:12.63\00:17:14.93
in an absolute moment
00:17:14.93\00:17:16.73
without even hesitation,
00:17:16.73\00:17:18.97
they will reduce the amount of
00:17:18.97\00:17:19.97
interest that you have to pay.
00:17:19.97\00:17:22.14
And so you should all be
00:17:22.14\00:17:23.34
doing that if you're
00:17:23.34\00:17:24.24
carrying a balance.
00:17:24.24\00:17:25.17
Right away, they will
00:17:25.17\00:17:26.04
reduce that.
00:17:26.04\00:17:26.84
Why?
00:17:26.84\00:17:27.71
Because they want you to be able
00:17:27.71\00:17:29.71
to pay it off.
00:17:29.71\00:17:30.71
It's beneficial to them.
00:17:30.71\00:17:31.68
>> Absolutely.
00:17:31.68\00:17:32.31
It's in their best interest.
00:17:32.31\00:17:33.31
>> It's in their best interest.
00:17:33.31\00:17:34.28
That's right.
00:17:34.28\00:17:35.08
And so you need to do that.
00:17:35.08\00:17:37.19
So if you still are feeling
00:17:37.19\00:17:39.95
that you, you know,
00:17:39.95\00:17:41.46
cannot pay, you don't see light
00:17:41.46\00:17:42.82
at the end of the tunnel,
00:17:42.82\00:17:44.96
then from an informal proposal
00:17:44.96\00:17:46.90
you move to the formal proposal.
00:17:46.90\00:17:50.17
And this is where you need to
00:17:50.17\00:17:51.17
engage with a credit counselling
00:17:51.17\00:17:52.97
society.
00:17:52.97\00:17:54.04
Now there are a number of them.
00:17:54.04\00:17:55.34
You can look them up
00:17:55.34\00:17:56.27
on the internet.
00:17:56.27\00:17:57.27
If you live in a larger centre,
00:17:57.27\00:17:59.04
you know, of 100,000 plus
00:17:59.04\00:18:01.08
population, you're probably
00:18:01.08\00:18:02.24
gonna have three or four or five
00:18:02.24\00:18:04.15
options to choose from.
00:18:04.15\00:18:06.65
And they are very powerful.
00:18:06.65\00:18:08.75
And they will take a look
00:18:08.75\00:18:10.02
at your income and expense,
00:18:10.02\00:18:11.89
they'll look at your debt.
00:18:11.89\00:18:13.62
And they will then
00:18:13.62\00:18:16.09
make that phone call
00:18:16.09\00:18:17.59
to your creditors.
00:18:17.59\00:18:19.43
And there's a formula
00:18:19.43\00:18:20.83
that is set out that
00:18:20.83\00:18:22.06
everyone has to be able to
00:18:22.06\00:18:23.33
become, you know, debt free.
00:18:23.33\00:18:24.57
Light at the end of the tunnel
00:18:24.57\00:18:25.50
in five years.
00:18:25.50\00:18:26.80
And so they have, you know,
00:18:26.80\00:18:28.70
if you have four people
00:18:28.70\00:18:29.77
living in your family or
00:18:29.77\00:18:30.77
five or two or one,
00:18:30.77\00:18:32.71
you know, how much disposable
00:18:32.71\00:18:33.98
income do you have to have
00:18:33.98\00:18:35.91
and how much then are they
00:18:35.91\00:18:37.85
going to garnish
00:18:37.85\00:18:39.61
to pay off your debts?
00:18:39.61\00:18:40.72
And sometimes, if you're
00:18:40.72\00:18:41.85
a long ways into debt,
00:18:41.85\00:18:44.12
it might be that they're gonna
00:18:44.12\00:18:45.32
offer your people that you owe
00:18:45.32\00:18:48.26
$0.50, $0.70, $0.80
00:18:48.26\00:18:50.23
on the dollar.
00:18:50.23\00:18:51.86
And they will accept it
00:18:51.86\00:18:53.43
because, you know, it's better
00:18:53.43\00:18:55.40
to receive $0.80 on the dollar
00:18:55.40\00:18:57.07
than for you to
00:18:57.07\00:18:58.50
go to the final step,
00:18:58.50\00:19:00.37
which is declaring bankruptcy
00:19:00.37\00:19:01.77
and they don't get anything.
00:19:01.77\00:19:02.90
So I think that
00:19:02.90\00:19:05.01
if you are in serious problems,
00:19:05.01\00:19:08.01
but number one, you have to have
00:19:08.01\00:19:10.08
stopped going further into debt.
00:19:10.08\00:19:12.28
You engage a credit counselling
00:19:12.28\00:19:13.68
society, but then you must
00:19:13.68\00:19:16.65
adhere to it, because
00:19:16.65\00:19:18.09
read the fine print.
00:19:18.09\00:19:19.12
There are definite
00:19:19.12\00:19:21.09
pros and cons to it,
00:19:21.09\00:19:22.22
definite significant things
00:19:22.22\00:19:24.16
that you are then
00:19:24.16\00:19:25.33
signing your name to which
00:19:25.33\00:19:26.53
you are going to adhere to.
00:19:26.53\00:19:27.93
But you will become debt free.
00:19:27.93\00:19:29.83
[ANNA] There are some steps
00:19:32.00\00:19:33.03
that people can take for
00:19:33.03\00:19:34.64
staying out of debt.
00:19:34.64\00:19:35.77
Some things that I do is
00:19:35.77\00:19:37.44
especially at this young age,
00:19:37.44\00:19:38.81
you know, coming out of
00:19:38.81\00:19:39.94
university and just previously
00:19:39.94\00:19:41.84
being in school, you have so
00:19:41.84\00:19:43.55
much freedom with your time,
00:19:43.55\00:19:45.85
your independence, right,
00:19:45.85\00:19:46.98
you're really getting into
00:19:46.98\00:19:48.35
the groove of being an adult
00:19:48.35\00:19:49.75
and you're seeing, okay,
00:19:49.75\00:19:50.99
I have money coming into my
00:19:50.99\00:19:52.29
bank account now, what can I
00:19:52.29\00:19:53.82
do with it, right?
00:19:53.82\00:19:55.19
But it doesn't have to be money
00:19:55.19\00:19:57.13
that is spent.
00:19:57.13\00:19:58.09
Not everything you make
00:19:58.09\00:19:59.09
needs to be put out, right?
00:19:59.09\00:20:00.96
So there's lots of free things
00:20:00.96\00:20:02.36
that you can do to have
00:20:02.36\00:20:03.40
a good time with your friends,
00:20:03.40\00:20:04.67
with your family.
00:20:04.67\00:20:06.00
You can go out in nature,
00:20:06.00\00:20:07.24
go for a hike, you can have
00:20:07.24\00:20:08.90
game nights, you know,
00:20:08.90\00:20:10.31
you can do some DIY craft nights
00:20:10.31\00:20:12.21
with your friends, cook together
00:20:12.21\00:20:13.71
instead of eating out, right?
00:20:13.71\00:20:15.24
There's always an alternative
00:20:15.24\00:20:16.61
for spending money.
00:20:16.61\00:20:17.95
And some things a person can
00:20:17.95\00:20:19.61
even do is, you know, look into
00:20:19.61\00:20:20.95
doing some side hustles as well.
00:20:20.95\00:20:23.18
Something I do to even increase
00:20:23.18\00:20:24.85
my income a little bit is I do
00:20:24.85\00:20:26.82
collaborations with different
00:20:26.82\00:20:28.06
companies.
00:20:28.06\00:20:28.89
I do some media work for them.
00:20:28.89\00:20:31.13
Some of these companies,
00:20:31.13\00:20:32.16
you know, I've never met them
00:20:32.16\00:20:33.29
face to face, but they're
00:20:33.29\00:20:34.36
reliable brands.
00:20:34.36\00:20:35.40
And, you know, that's a couple
00:20:35.40\00:20:36.50
extra hundred dollars that I can
00:20:36.50\00:20:37.80
put towards groceries,
00:20:37.80\00:20:39.43
towards my rent.
00:20:39.43\00:20:40.50
And it's really about looking at
00:20:40.50\00:20:42.44
what you love to do and
00:20:42.44\00:20:44.31
somehow being able to even
00:20:44.31\00:20:45.64
monetize that, right?
00:20:45.64\00:20:46.88
There's, especially in today's
00:20:46.88\00:20:48.71
day and age with social media,
00:20:48.71\00:20:49.84
there's so many ways that
00:20:49.84\00:20:50.91
you can make money, but in
00:20:50.91\00:20:52.91
an honest way, right?
00:20:52.91\00:20:54.32
So just look for those ways
00:20:54.32\00:20:55.68
that you can save your money
00:20:55.68\00:20:58.12
and don't feel as if everything
00:20:58.12\00:20:59.82
that comes in needs to be
00:20:59.82\00:21:01.09
spent out.
00:21:01.09\00:21:02.16
>> Sven, what does the Bible say
00:21:03.56\00:21:05.69
about debt?
00:21:05.69\00:21:07.40
>> You know all the references
00:21:07.40\00:21:08.70
in the Bible regarding debt,
00:21:08.70\00:21:10.67
aren't- they don't paint
00:21:10.67\00:21:11.90
a pretty picture.
00:21:11.90\00:21:14.00
But I would like to give you a
00:21:14.00\00:21:15.30
little saying first, you know,
00:21:15.30\00:21:16.94
before we dive into what
00:21:16.94\00:21:18.04
the Bible says.
00:21:18.04\00:21:18.67
And I don't know who to give
00:21:18.67\00:21:19.74
credit to, this little saying,
00:21:19.74\00:21:21.64
but I think it kind of gives
00:21:21.64\00:21:22.68
a nice framework.
00:21:22.68\00:21:24.21
That, it says that
00:21:24.21\00:21:26.45
people spend money
00:21:26.45\00:21:27.48
they haven't earned
00:21:27.48\00:21:29.52
to buy things
00:21:29.52\00:21:31.09
they don't want
00:21:31.09\00:21:32.55
to impress people
00:21:32.55\00:21:33.69
they don't like.
00:21:33.69\00:21:35.22
[laughs]
00:21:35.22\00:21:36.16
So that gives us
00:21:36.16\00:21:37.36
a little framework.
00:21:37.36\00:21:38.36
So the Bible, you know, context,
00:21:38.36\00:21:40.46
kind of run along
00:21:40.46\00:21:41.46
the same lines.
00:21:41.46\00:21:42.66
And, you know,
00:21:42.66\00:21:44.73
it's a form of bondage,
00:21:44.73\00:21:46.84
you know, to someone else who
00:21:46.84\00:21:48.67
that you own money to.
00:21:48.67\00:21:50.47
And if we look again,
00:21:50.47\00:21:53.21
you know, into the Bible and
00:21:53.21\00:21:55.44
if we turn to
00:21:55.44\00:21:57.98
Proverbs 22, verse 7,
00:21:57.98\00:22:00.88
it reads...
00:22:00.88\00:22:01.92
You know, so when you have to
00:22:10.09\00:22:11.46
borrow money, it shows
00:22:11.46\00:22:13.09
a lack of contentment
00:22:13.09\00:22:14.73
and it also presumes
00:22:14.73\00:22:16.16
upon the future.
00:22:16.16\00:22:18.17
If you go into debt,
00:22:18.17\00:22:20.74
you are presuming, and they are
00:22:20.74\00:22:22.77
as well, who've loaned you
00:22:22.77\00:22:23.71
the money, that you're gonna
00:22:23.71\00:22:24.74
be able to pay that off.
00:22:24.74\00:22:26.17
>> And you really become chained
00:22:26.84\00:22:28.34
to your debts, right?
00:22:28.34\00:22:29.68
Every decision you make
00:22:29.68\00:22:30.91
is revolved around it.
00:22:30.91\00:22:32.61
It's not freeing, right?
00:22:32.61\00:22:34.52
So you feel as if
00:22:34.52\00:22:36.55
everything that you do
00:22:36.55\00:22:38.09
revolves around it.
00:22:38.09\00:22:39.29
You know, you feel like you
00:22:39.29\00:22:40.39
have to keep more for yourself
00:22:40.39\00:22:41.62
and that you don't have enough
00:22:41.62\00:22:42.66
to give to others.
00:22:42.66\00:22:44.16
And that can really put you
00:22:44.16\00:22:45.63
in that imprisonment of
00:22:45.63\00:22:47.50
just thinking about your money
00:22:47.50\00:22:49.06
all the time.
00:22:49.06\00:22:50.17
Whereas your mind should be
00:22:50.17\00:22:51.37
geared towards heavenly things
00:22:51.37\00:22:52.80
and towards helping
00:22:52.80\00:22:53.87
other people.
00:22:53.87\00:22:54.94
So really take the time to think
00:22:54.94\00:22:56.67
about where your money is going.
00:22:56.67\00:22:58.71
Think about the question, okay,
00:22:58.71\00:23:00.81
do I really need this?
00:23:00.81\00:23:02.31
Is this something that is
00:23:02.31\00:23:03.35
adding value to my life,
00:23:03.35\00:23:05.01
or is it just giving me
00:23:05.01\00:23:06.05
happiness for a few moments?
00:23:06.05\00:23:08.25
Or am I doing this just because
00:23:08.25\00:23:09.55
I see other people doing it?
00:23:09.55\00:23:11.02
There are some red flags that
00:23:11.02\00:23:12.72
people can recognize
00:23:12.72\00:23:13.89
when they're starting to
00:23:13.89\00:23:14.89
fall into the debt trap.
00:23:14.89\00:23:16.32
So some of them could be
00:23:16.32\00:23:17.69
maxing out your credit card
00:23:17.69\00:23:19.16
limit every single month,
00:23:19.16\00:23:20.93
finding that you're not paying
00:23:20.93\00:23:22.20
off your credit card on time,
00:23:22.20\00:23:24.17
and realizing as well that
00:23:24.17\00:23:25.97
you're not putting money towards
00:23:25.97\00:23:27.30
your savings or towards
00:23:27.30\00:23:28.57
your retirement.
00:23:28.57\00:23:29.74
You're starting to see that
00:23:29.74\00:23:30.74
there isn't that much of a
00:23:30.74\00:23:31.81
margin between what you're
00:23:31.81\00:23:33.27
making versus what you're
00:23:33.27\00:23:34.74
spending and putting out.
00:23:34.74\00:23:36.31
So some habits that you can even
00:23:36.31\00:23:38.18
build with that is, you know,
00:23:38.18\00:23:40.42
if you're going to spend
00:23:40.42\00:23:41.52
with your credit card,
00:23:41.52\00:23:42.48
let's say you're buying gas
00:23:42.48\00:23:44.22
to put into your car, okay,
00:23:44.22\00:23:45.62
spend with your credit card,
00:23:45.62\00:23:46.92
but when you go home,
00:23:46.92\00:23:47.96
pay it off right away.
00:23:47.96\00:23:49.16
Don't let it linger in there
00:23:49.16\00:23:50.39
for a long time.
00:23:50.39\00:23:51.39
You know, my mom always says
00:23:51.39\00:23:52.93
what you can do today,
00:23:52.93\00:23:54.13
don't wait for tomorrow.
00:23:54.13\00:23:55.26
And there's so much value
00:23:55.26\00:23:56.67
in that lesson, right?
00:23:56.67\00:23:57.73
It's pay off what you can today
00:23:57.73\00:24:00.10
and don't let it linger
00:24:00.10\00:24:01.47
and build up later on, right?
00:24:01.47\00:24:03.81
Just handle the things you can
00:24:03.81\00:24:05.11
right now.
00:24:05.11\00:24:05.81
right now.
00:24:05.81\00:24:06.61
[SVEN] So you need to be very,
00:24:06.61\00:24:09.11
you know, conscious when you
00:24:09.11\00:24:11.08
decide to go into debt,
00:24:11.08\00:24:12.38
especially for those
00:24:12.38\00:24:13.98
consumable items that
00:24:13.98\00:24:16.99
you are taking, again, a massive
00:24:16.99\00:24:19.15
analysis on needs versus wants.
00:24:19.15\00:24:21.66
>> Sven, I really like
00:24:21.66\00:24:22.72
what you're sharing with us.
00:24:22.72\00:24:23.89
It's so very practical
00:24:23.89\00:24:25.69
and advice from the Bible.
00:24:25.69\00:24:27.36
And that idea that the
00:24:27.36\00:24:29.63
borrower is slave to the lender,
00:24:29.63\00:24:32.33
servant to the lender,
00:24:32.33\00:24:33.57
that's not a good place to be.
00:24:33.57\00:24:35.80
You feel like you're not
00:24:35.80\00:24:37.01
in control.
00:24:37.01\00:24:38.01
Someone else is in control
00:24:38.01\00:24:39.17
of your finances.
00:24:39.17\00:24:40.18
Any other thoughts,
00:24:40.18\00:24:41.24
other pitfalls that you can see
00:24:41.24\00:24:43.45
that for you, this is really
00:24:43.45\00:24:46.18
important that we
00:24:46.18\00:24:47.22
stay out of debt?
00:24:47.22\00:24:48.32
>> There are.
00:24:48.88\00:24:49.78
There are other pitfalls,
00:24:49.78\00:24:51.09
you know, when we are in debt.
00:24:51.09\00:24:52.25
We lose the joy
00:24:52.25\00:24:54.56
of being able to give.
00:24:54.56\00:24:56.36
You know, there are so many
00:24:56.36\00:24:57.66
opportunities and so many
00:24:57.66\00:24:59.79
people and organizations
00:24:59.79\00:25:01.03
in need.
00:25:01.03\00:25:01.96
And we hear an emotional appeal,
00:25:01.96\00:25:04.83
you know, whether it be to help
00:25:04.83\00:25:06.13
a student through school
00:25:06.13\00:25:07.70
or any other type of a,
00:25:07.70\00:25:09.87
you know, missionary project.
00:25:09.87\00:25:12.24
And we're in debt.
00:25:12.24\00:25:15.14
We then can't
00:25:15.14\00:25:17.31
participate in
00:25:17.31\00:25:19.95
the joy of giving.
00:25:19.95\00:25:21.45
And I think there is a huge joy,
00:25:21.45\00:25:23.39
you know, in giving.
00:25:23.39\00:25:25.62
And so to have that opportunity,
00:25:25.62\00:25:27.26
then I think it strengthens
00:25:27.26\00:25:29.66
our budget and our financial
00:25:29.66\00:25:31.73
responsibility to be able to
00:25:31.73\00:25:34.40
have that opportunity.
00:25:34.40\00:25:35.93
>> That's very good insight.
00:25:35.93\00:25:38.33
I really like that.
00:25:38.33\00:25:40.00
So, Sven, thank you very much
00:25:40.00\00:25:41.70
for sharing all that you have
00:25:41.70\00:25:43.44
shared with us.
00:25:43.44\00:25:44.41
And we've come to the end of our
00:25:44.41\00:25:45.84
time together.
00:25:45.84\00:25:46.91
I wonder if you could
00:25:46.91\00:25:48.21
pray for our viewers.
00:25:48.21\00:25:49.61
There might be someone who is
00:25:49.61\00:25:51.25
really struggling, many who are
00:25:51.25\00:25:53.82
struggling out there,
00:25:53.82\00:25:54.85
but someone who's listening
00:25:54.85\00:25:55.88
today and saying, "Hey, I need
00:25:55.88\00:25:58.85
this to be applied in my life
00:25:58.85\00:26:01.19
so that I can have that hope,
00:26:01.19\00:26:02.62
I can have that peace,
00:26:02.62\00:26:04.03
I can have that patience,
00:26:04.03\00:26:05.39
that God is with me."
00:26:05.39\00:26:06.73
Maybe you can pray for them
00:26:06.73\00:26:07.76
right now.
00:26:07.76\00:26:08.66
>> Sure.
00:26:08.66\00:26:09.60
Dear Father, at this time,
00:26:11.50\00:26:13.57
as people are listening
00:26:13.57\00:26:15.80
and they are in debt, Lord,
00:26:15.80\00:26:17.67
just give them the peace.
00:26:17.67\00:26:18.27
just give them the peace.
00:26:18.34\00:26:19.41
Come over them and wrap
00:26:19.41\00:26:20.51
Your arms around them,
00:26:20.51\00:26:22.01
that they know that with
00:26:22.01\00:26:23.21
Your help, Lord,
00:26:23.21\00:26:24.68
all things are possible.
00:26:24.68\00:26:26.18
Please bless us.
00:26:26.18\00:26:27.25
Give the desire
00:26:27.25\00:26:28.28
and give us the willpower
00:26:28.28\00:26:30.12
to stick to it, Lord.
00:26:30.12\00:26:31.55
Your name I pray.
00:26:31.55\00:26:32.65
Amen.
00:26:32.65\00:26:33.49
>> Sven, thank you so much for
00:26:34.46\00:26:35.96
joining us on
00:26:35.96\00:26:37.03
It Is Written Canada today.
00:26:37.03\00:26:39.26
>> You're welcome.
00:26:39.26\00:26:40.30
Thank you.
00:26:40.30\00:26:41.10
>> So don't allow the pressures
00:26:41.56\00:26:43.26
of the world, especially,
00:26:43.26\00:26:45.13
and the pressures of the people
00:26:45.13\00:26:46.37
around you, even the people
00:26:46.37\00:26:47.74
that you respect, to impact
00:26:47.74\00:26:50.27
your decision in terms of
00:26:50.27\00:26:51.54
what you're spending, right?
00:26:51.54\00:26:52.61
At the end of the day,
00:26:52.61\00:26:53.84
it's between you and God as to
00:26:53.84\00:26:55.78
where you're putting His
00:26:55.78\00:26:56.81
resources that He has
00:26:56.81\00:26:57.88
blessed you with.
00:26:57.88\00:26:58.95
>> Friends, our free offer is
00:27:00.52\00:27:02.25
a most powerful little book
00:27:02.25\00:27:04.85
on how Christians
00:27:04.85\00:27:05.99
relate to money.
00:27:05.99\00:27:07.69
It is entitled Jacob's Pillow,
00:27:07.69\00:27:10.03
written by our friend,
00:27:10.03\00:27:12.23
Shawn Boonstra.
00:27:12.23\00:27:13.46
>> Jacob's Pillow is a treasure
00:27:14.66\00:27:16.77
of practical advice and
00:27:16.77\00:27:18.47
instruction from God's Word
00:27:18.47\00:27:20.84
and includes a simple
00:27:20.84\00:27:22.54
budget outline in the back.
00:27:22.54\00:27:24.97
>> Before you go, we would
00:27:25.74\00:27:27.11
like to thank all of you
00:27:27.11\00:27:29.38
who have supported the ministry
00:27:29.38\00:27:30.78
of It Is Written Canada
00:27:30.78\00:27:31.85
with your prayers and
00:27:31.85\00:27:32.98
financial contributions.
00:27:32.98\00:27:34.92
Without your support,
00:27:34.92\00:27:36.08
this television ministry
00:27:36.08\00:27:38.02
could not have reached
00:27:38.02\00:27:39.52
so many people
00:27:39.52\00:27:40.92
for so many decades.
00:27:40.92\00:27:42.62
>> Yes, thank you.
00:27:43.63\00:27:45.86
And we would also like to invite
00:27:45.86\00:27:47.83
you to follow us on Instagram
00:27:47.83\00:27:50.07
and Facebook and subscribe
00:27:50.07\00:27:52.47
to our YouTube channel,
00:27:52.47\00:27:54.44
and also listen to our podcasts.
00:27:54.44\00:27:57.74
And if you go to our website,
00:27:57.74\00:28:00.11
you can see our latest programs.
00:28:00.11\00:28:03.04
>> Friends, if you want
00:28:03.04\00:28:04.38
the kind of wisdom that
00:28:04.38\00:28:06.01
God longs to give you,
00:28:06.01\00:28:08.35
even in the financial areas
00:28:08.35\00:28:10.99
of your life, we recommend that
00:28:10.99\00:28:12.72
you open the Bible where it is
00:28:12.72\00:28:14.86
recorded that Jesus found
00:28:14.86\00:28:17.09
His assurance to defeat
00:28:17.09\00:28:18.99
the devil through
00:28:18.99\00:28:20.06
the Word of His Father,
00:28:20.06\00:28:21.73
when He declared...
00:28:21.73\00:28:22.90
[uplifting music]
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