[theme music]
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¤¤
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[birds chirping]
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>> Welcome to
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It Is Written Canada.
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Thank you for joining us.
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Dr. Sereivudh Ly miraculously
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survived the Cambodian
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killing fields while he was
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in his early teens.
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Working in brutal labour camps,
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deep in the Cambodian jungle,
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young Sereivudh's life was
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unexplainably spared
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time and again.
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Yet once he was set free,
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he did not want to live.
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>> He was filled with anger,
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bitterness, and hatred.
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Suffering from PTSD,
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he needed help.
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It was at a refugee camp
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just across the Thai border,
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where Dr. Ly found hope
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and healing.
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>> Dr. Sereivudh Ly,
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thank you for joining us
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on It Is Written Canada.
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>> Thank you very much for
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inviting me back again.
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Thank you.
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>> So, Dr. Ly, you went through
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so much brutality and
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witnessed so much killing
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of friends and just people
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everywhere.
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You were filled with rage.
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You didn't wanna live.
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What changed?
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What happened?
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How did you change?
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>> Because the bitterness,
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the anger problem I have
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and the guilt I have,
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why I'm alive,
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why my parents not...
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...I become rebellious,
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become- don't know what to do
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and no meaning of life.
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So I fled with my friend
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to refugee camp.
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That where I met Jesus
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and when I began to read
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the Bible, that when
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I begin to discover
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who I am again.
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And that lead me to the change
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that I have.
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>> So that was a very
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dangerous journey from
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just going into the
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refugee camp.
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Did they welcome you in?
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>> No.
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You know, a long story there,
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just across the border,
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you had to cross a landmine
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both sides of the border.
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And you had to walk after
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one another, and the dead bodies
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were stuck in the tree.
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The clothes blowed,
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landmine blowed.
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But make a story short,
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when I get into the camp,
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I'm not welcome because
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the camp already closed.
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No register for a new refugee.
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So I have to learn to live,
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I?he illegal refugee hiding.
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I?he illegal refugee hiding.
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So I had to go to the refugee,
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the legal one, to do something
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for them, work for them
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taking care of their children.
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They give some food left for me.
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And then I have to ask them
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if I can get permission to
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dig the ground, because
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every week the Thai soldiers
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come and checking ID
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for everyone, because if you're
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legal, you have ID to wear and
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illegal, you'd ask and have.
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So we had to hide.
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So ask them to dig the ground
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and when they come to check
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to cover for us.
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We're hiding in there.
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>> You dug a hole in the ground
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and you were...
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>> And then cover it,
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make two hole for the air
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coming through.
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But- because we are illegal.
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That in '83 when I arrive in
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refugee camp until '84
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before I become registered...
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...me, become a legal refugee.
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>> Where did you meet Jesus?
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How did you meet Jesus there?
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>> You just remember the
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timeframe.
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You see, when I got there
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in September '83,
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until August '84
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when I become...
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Yeah, July '84 when I was
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baptized, in August
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they register us
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to be a legal one.
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So almost a year's time
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that living with hopeless
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that living with hopeless
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helplessness and angry
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all the time.
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And especially when I'm
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see people happy, I'm not happy.
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As I share with you,
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my friend said, "Let's go
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to church to find."
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So we went to one of the church
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which is worship on Sunday,
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and listen, but my heart
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is full of bitterness.
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So I listen.
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They always point out that
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the Buddhist people will
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go to hell and these people
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is bad.
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And I don't like this,
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even though I'm angry.
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So I left and we went to
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the other church.
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It's the other denomination.
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And the priest can speak
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Cambodian language very well.
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So we sit and waiting for him
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to finish the sermon.
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And at the end of the sermon,
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he gave us money at the door.
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Everyone at hundred buck.
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When my turn came, I said,
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"I don't want money.
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I'm not come here to
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take the money."
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He said, "All you,
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all of you like that
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because you come here,
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just want to get the money.
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Okay, go take it."
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I said no, I just throw it away.
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I don't want to take it
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because you cannot buy me.
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So from there...
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[MIKE] They were kind of
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bribing you in a sense, okay.
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>> That's how they
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practice there.
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When they promote that,
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if the people come attending
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the service, the whole service,
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at the end of service,
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you get the money.
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[MIKE] I see.
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[DR. LY] I didn't know that
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when I came in, right?
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So...
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...so I was upset.
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I said, "I, you know,
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I don't need to believe in God.
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I don't need to be
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bought by this."
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So I left.
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I said no more with God.
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[MIKE] But you had no money.
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Why didn't you just take it?
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>> For me, I'm so proud
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at that time because
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I still confuse my identity.
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I said, "I survive from
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killing field, I don't need
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your money.
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I can survive here, too."
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Right?
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So at the place where I
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stay in the hut there
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at the end, there's a church,
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Adventist church.
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And every morning on Sabbath
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they're singing so happy.
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I walked past and I said,
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"Why these people so happy?"
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And inside of me is jealousy.
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I said, "No, you should not
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be happy."
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So I bothered them by push
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the stick that
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hold the window up
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like this, when it fall,
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it make a sound.
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So they interrupt the service.
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They run out up to me.
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They try to shoo me out.
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It's, "Go away, go away!"
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right, because bother them.
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When they do that, I'm happy.
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[chuckles]
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Because what I interrupt them,
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now not happy like me.
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So sometime I keep coming
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to do it once, twice,
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or three time
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until I get tired and move on
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to bother somebody else.
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One day, one Sabbath,
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I do it again.
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And I didn't know the pastor
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preaching inside and the pastor
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ran up to me.
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He said, "Brother, stop, stop!
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Come!"
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Because usually people
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come up to me, shoo me out
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and throw a rock or anything.
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And that pastor said,
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"Come, come!
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After my sermon we can talk.
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Okay, come in, come in."
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So I said, okay,
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if they invite me properly,
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I'm going.
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I'm going to sit
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at the back there.
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So at the end of sermon
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with my friend, I said,
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"Watching these people,
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you know, they preach that
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don't worry about, you know,
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what your challenge now.
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God will bless you.
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You'll be safe.
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Don't worry about death.
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Don't worry about death.
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All those things.
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I said watch with them because
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after 6:00 the Thai soldiers
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not protect them anymore.
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The foreigner, whoever in
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refugee camp will get killed.
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Because in refugee camp
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you get killed easily.
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They can preach that,
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but they don't suffer.
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They can go to sleep well
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in the air conditioning.
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We are in the mess up here.
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So that day
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I watched that pastor.
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He didn't go.
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The rest of them gone,
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he still with us.
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He still come back
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to sit with me, with my friends,
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three, four, five of us.
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We drinking all the time.
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We sit down and talk and said,
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how you doing?
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And how your family,
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all the stuff going on?
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And then he bring some
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food in his truck
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to come to eat together.
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and then by 8:00, almost 9:00,
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he's still with us.
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It's dark already, right?
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In that and that area,
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it's after six, it's dark.
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So I was wonder why this guy
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not afraid of dying.
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We could kill him.
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But he stayed with us.
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So from that day, open my eyes.
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I want to know more.
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Why this guy have that courage.
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I want to have that courage.
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Not afraid of dying.
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[MIKE] So he wasn't afraid
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of dying, he shared his food
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with you...
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>> And the week after, he bring,
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he share the Bible, he gave me
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the Bible.
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So from there, what I read,
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you know, because I'm still
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stuck in the culture that
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we came from.
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In Cambodian culture, if you're
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not Buddhist, you're no longer
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Cambodian, right?
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So I don't want to believe,
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but I want to see
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is there any good thing
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in the Bible.
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I look all the whole thing,
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I said, "Oh yeah,
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the book of Proverbs, it's good.
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A lot of counsel.
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That good.
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I can use it for my life because
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no parent, I don't have anybody
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give me advice.
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So I read the book of Proverbs.
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Interesting, one by one verse,
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all the way, all the end.
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I say, "Okay, what else
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I can read?"
00:09:24.16\00:09:25.16
I read Ecclesiastes.
00:09:25.16\00:09:26.96
Ecclesiastes answer my question
00:09:26.96\00:09:28.80
to see the vanity
00:09:28.80\00:09:30.30
during the killing field,
00:09:30.30\00:09:32.03
you know, when I evacuated
00:09:32.03\00:09:33.40
from the city, people carry
00:09:33.40\00:09:34.67
the money and they get died
00:09:34.67\00:09:36.07
because they don't want to
00:09:36.07\00:09:37.07
drop the money.
00:09:37.07\00:09:38.47
I see vanity.
00:09:38.47\00:09:39.74
I said, yeah.
00:09:39.74\00:09:40.61
That more- made me
00:09:40.61\00:09:41.51
more interested to read
00:09:41.51\00:09:42.44
the Bible again.
00:09:42.44\00:09:43.45
So after that I don't know
00:09:43.45\00:09:45.38
what to read.
00:09:45.38\00:09:46.38
I read the book of Job.
00:09:46.38\00:09:48.05
The book of Job answer all
00:09:48.05\00:09:49.62
my question doubting about God.
00:09:49.62\00:09:51.22
Where is God
00:09:51.22\00:09:52.29
when the suffering happen?
00:09:52.29\00:09:53.92
And the book of Job answer me,
00:09:53.92\00:09:55.36
all, the whole thing.
00:09:55.36\00:09:56.73
>> So you could see
00:09:56.73\00:09:57.49
what was behind the scene...
00:09:57.49\00:09:58.43
>> Yeah, I can see
00:09:58.43\00:09:59.13
the big picture now,
00:09:59.13\00:10:00.03
because what I've been through
00:10:00.03\00:10:01.66
and God have revealed that
00:10:01.66\00:10:03.83
it's not Him.
00:10:03.83\00:10:04.83
It's not that He not doing
00:10:04.83\00:10:06.20
anything, He do something.
00:10:06.20\00:10:08.24
So after that I read the gospel,
00:10:08.24\00:10:10.57
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
00:10:10.57\00:10:13.04
I can experience
00:10:13.04\00:10:14.01
the love of God.
00:10:14.01\00:10:14.94
And then the book of Romans,
00:10:14.94\00:10:16.91
especially Romans 5:9.
00:10:16.91\00:10:18.91
It's- God love us
00:10:18.91\00:10:20.68
while we still sinner.
00:10:20.68\00:10:22.08
While I'm still hating Him,
00:10:22.08\00:10:23.65
He's love me.
00:10:23.65\00:10:25.25
>> Dr. Ly, did the pastor
00:10:25.25\00:10:27.02
do Bible studies with you?
00:10:27.02\00:10:29.66
>> Not really, because he come
00:10:29.66\00:10:31.73
once a month, not every week.
00:10:31.73\00:10:33.66
But if you talk about
00:10:34.60\00:10:35.73
Bible study, there's a couple,
00:10:35.73\00:10:37.77
did Bible study with me before
00:10:37.77\00:10:39.47
that incident, before I met
00:10:39.47\00:10:40.94
the pastor.
00:10:40.94\00:10:42.14
And that from the church,
00:10:42.14\00:10:43.20
Adventist, too.
00:10:43.20\00:10:44.11
And the key thing that,
00:10:44.11\00:10:45.24
the reason why I baptized
00:10:45.24\00:10:46.78
is not just only for salvation
00:10:46.78\00:10:48.78
to go to heaven.
00:10:48.78\00:10:50.21
My reason I was baptized,
00:10:50.21\00:10:52.05
I just want to get healed
00:10:52.05\00:10:54.72
from my bitterness,
00:10:54.72\00:10:56.42
my problem I have
00:10:56.42\00:10:57.82
and unforgiving the grudges.
00:10:57.82\00:10:59.62
Every time people mention about
00:10:59.62\00:11:01.09
Khmer Rouge, it boiling
00:11:01.09\00:11:02.36
inside of me, right?
00:11:02.36\00:11:04.46
So...but after baptised,
00:11:04.46\00:11:06.09
I don't see miracle.
00:11:06.09\00:11:07.36
>> You were still
00:11:08.26\00:11:09.16
feeling bitter.
00:11:09.16\00:11:10.07
>> I still feeling bitter,
00:11:10.07\00:11:11.03
just feeling the same thing.
00:11:11.03\00:11:12.03
So I came to the...
00:11:12.03\00:11:13.44
...the elders and the pastor.
00:11:15.90\00:11:17.94
They said, "You know,
00:11:17.94\00:11:19.27
we pray for you and your faith
00:11:19.27\00:11:21.28
will be strong and
00:11:21.28\00:11:22.98
you're able to do that."
00:11:22.98\00:11:24.18
But it not happen.
00:11:24.98\00:11:27.52
Let me share, can I share
00:11:28.08\00:11:29.58
the Bible with you?
00:11:29.58\00:11:30.82
You know, one time
00:11:30.82\00:11:32.95
when I opened the Bible
00:11:32.95\00:11:34.42
in the book of Mark,
00:11:34.42\00:11:36.29
the gospel of Mark,
00:11:36.29\00:11:37.93
chapter 11.
00:11:37.93\00:11:39.73
The Bible said, "Therefore
00:11:40.83\00:11:42.06
I say to you, whatever things
00:11:42.06\00:11:43.67
you ask when you pray,
00:11:43.67\00:11:45.30
believe that you have
00:11:45.30\00:11:46.27
received them,
00:11:46.27\00:11:47.24
you will have them."
00:11:47.24\00:11:48.40
That moment when I said,
00:11:49.90\00:11:51.54
"God, I believe You
00:11:51.54\00:11:52.61
that You can heal me."
00:11:52.61\00:11:53.54
I kneel down and pray.
00:11:53.54\00:11:55.34
And then while I finish
00:11:55.34\00:11:56.58
the prayer, reading more
00:11:56.58\00:11:57.71
in verse 25, "Whenever you stand
00:11:57.71\00:12:01.02
praying, if you have anything
00:12:01.02\00:12:02.65
against anyone, forgive him
00:12:02.65\00:12:04.92
that your Father in heaven
00:12:04.92\00:12:06.19
may also forgive you
00:12:06.19\00:12:07.69
your trespasses."
00:12:07.69\00:12:09.69
Twenty-six, "But if you do not
00:12:09.69\00:12:11.26
forgive, neither will your
00:12:11.26\00:12:12.99
Father in heaven forgive
00:12:12.99\00:12:14.13
your trespasses."
00:12:14.13\00:12:15.56
That moment I said, "Lord,
00:12:15.56\00:12:17.93
I want to forgive these people
00:12:17.93\00:12:18.77
I want to forgive these people
00:12:18.77\00:12:19.37
that who killed my parents,
00:12:19.47\00:12:20.44
who almost killed me.
00:12:20.44\00:12:22.00
Those people who abuse and who,
00:12:22.00\00:12:24.57
you know, even beat me
00:12:24.57\00:12:26.24
several time during
00:12:26.24\00:12:27.54
the killing field.
00:12:27.54\00:12:29.31
That the process, the first
00:12:29.31\00:12:29.88
That the process, the first
00:12:29.98\00:12:30.85
decision I make.
00:12:30.85\00:12:31.98
And then I start making that.
00:12:31.98\00:12:34.35
And later on, I begin to read
00:12:34.35\00:12:35.52
the Book of Romans.
00:12:35.52\00:12:36.82
It telling more about, you know,
00:12:36.82\00:12:39.25
Romans 8:28.
00:12:39.25\00:12:41.42
You know, "Everything works for
00:12:41.42\00:12:42.72
good for those who love God
00:12:42.72\00:12:43.99
and for those who called
00:12:43.99\00:12:45.06
according to His purpose."
00:12:45.06\00:12:47.30
Right?
00:12:47.86\00:12:48.63
So those- that how the process
00:12:48.63\00:12:50.20
of my healing start at the time.
00:12:50.20\00:12:52.47
>> So you made that decision.
00:12:52.47\00:12:54.24
What did that look like for you?
00:12:55.17\00:12:56.81
That- was it a continuous
00:12:56.81\00:12:58.27
decision?
00:12:58.27\00:12:59.37
[DR. LY] It continue.
00:12:59.37\00:13:01.08
The emotion will pop up and
00:13:01.08\00:13:02.98
I will go back to read
00:13:02.98\00:13:04.68
that text again and kneel down
00:13:04.68\00:13:06.25
to pray.
00:13:06.25\00:13:07.32
And from there
00:13:07.32\00:13:09.08
I- the less painful
00:13:09.08\00:13:11.25
when the...
00:13:11.25\00:13:12.52
...the story pop back
00:13:13.05\00:13:14.32
into my thinking, my thought.
00:13:14.32\00:13:16.06
It's no more pain
00:13:16.06\00:13:17.09
the same way before.
00:13:17.09\00:13:18.19
It less and less.
00:13:18.19\00:13:19.83
Without forgiveness,
00:13:19.83\00:13:20.86
I would not be functioning
00:13:20.86\00:13:21.86
the way I am today.
00:13:21.86\00:13:23.63
Yeah.
00:13:23.63\00:13:24.60
Forgiveness at the core.
00:13:24.60\00:13:26.13
And then also, I had to forgive
00:13:27.64\00:13:29.17
myself also.
00:13:29.17\00:13:30.87
Not just only those who
00:13:30.87\00:13:32.04
killed my parents, but
00:13:32.04\00:13:33.31
had to forgive myself.
00:13:33.31\00:13:34.71
Those are the hardest
00:13:34.71\00:13:35.58
forgiveness to forgive yourself
00:13:35.58\00:13:37.91
because you cannot get back
00:13:37.91\00:13:39.08
the parents, you know,
00:13:39.08\00:13:41.82
because the guilt that I have
00:13:41.82\00:13:43.52
if I were with my parents,
00:13:43.52\00:13:44.99
I may able to protect them,
00:13:44.99\00:13:47.12
not allow them to die.
00:13:47.12\00:13:48.62
But when I met Jesus and
00:13:48.62\00:13:50.46
accept Him as my Lord,
00:13:50.46\00:13:52.86
I can forgive that.
00:13:52.86\00:13:54.13
Because now I cannot say
00:13:54.13\00:13:55.43
to myself who I am
00:13:55.43\00:13:57.03
that say I cannot forgive myself
00:13:57.03\00:13:59.47
when God forgive me already.
00:13:59.47\00:14:01.87
>> So what you're saying is that
00:14:01.87\00:14:03.41
forgiveness isn't just
00:14:03.41\00:14:04.94
a one-time decision,
00:14:04.94\00:14:07.81
it's a process.
00:14:07.81\00:14:09.18
So talk us a little bit through
00:14:09.18\00:14:11.08
that process.
00:14:11.08\00:14:12.25
>> Sure, yeah.
00:14:12.25\00:14:13.45
It's a process, it's a
00:14:13.45\00:14:14.52
decision-making every time that
00:14:14.52\00:14:16.75
the emotion, the thought coming,
00:14:16.75\00:14:18.82
the pain coming back to you.
00:14:18.82\00:14:21.16
So you have to make
00:14:21.16\00:14:22.19
that decision.
00:14:22.19\00:14:23.09
That what I keep making
00:14:23.09\00:14:24.09
that decision when the
00:14:24.09\00:14:26.96
feeling of pain coming back,
00:14:26.96\00:14:28.86
I just kneel down and said,
00:14:28.86\00:14:30.10
"God, I want You to forgive me.
00:14:30.10\00:14:32.70
And now You said, if I want Your
00:14:32.70\00:14:35.14
forgiveness, I had to forgive
00:14:35.14\00:14:37.91
other and forgive myself."
00:14:37.91\00:14:39.51
And, but at the time,
00:14:39.51\00:14:40.94
I don't understand the whole
00:14:40.94\00:14:42.51
concept of forgiveness like
00:14:42.51\00:14:43.88
what I know now.
00:14:43.88\00:14:45.75
After I came to Canada, learning
00:14:45.75\00:14:47.45
all this thing, it, forgiveness,
00:14:47.45\00:14:49.62
it two separate thing
00:14:49.62\00:14:51.25
between forgiveness and
00:14:51.25\00:14:53.09
reconciliation.
00:14:53.09\00:14:54.56
The reconciliation is when you
00:14:54.56\00:14:56.56
make a decision to go back to
00:14:56.56\00:14:58.36
rebuild relationship with
00:14:58.36\00:15:00.10
the one that who offend you
00:15:00.10\00:15:01.70
or wrong you
00:15:01.70\00:15:02.96
and the person will be-
00:15:02.96\00:15:05.07
build the bridge back to you
00:15:05.07\00:15:06.63
and relationship will be back.
00:15:06.63\00:15:08.90
But forgiveness, you do not have
00:15:08.90\00:15:10.81
obligation to reconcile.
00:15:10.81\00:15:13.81
Only when you want to
00:15:14.64\00:15:17.18
build relationship back.
00:15:17.18\00:15:19.08
You see, when God-
00:15:19.08\00:15:20.55
God forgive us...
00:15:20.55\00:15:21.82
...but God want us to heal.
00:15:22.55\00:15:24.92
That's why He want us to confess
00:15:24.92\00:15:26.59
and repent and reconcile
00:15:26.59\00:15:27.89
back to Him.
00:15:27.89\00:15:29.02
That's why He called us today
00:15:29.02\00:15:30.36
as God's ambassador to
00:15:30.36\00:15:31.49
spread this news.
00:15:31.49\00:15:32.53
If you want the people to
00:15:32.53\00:15:33.53
get healed, you should
00:15:33.53\00:15:34.50
reconcile with them.
00:15:34.50\00:15:35.83
[MIKE] Ahh.
00:15:35.83\00:15:36.46
>> That's why Jesus reconciled
00:15:36.46\00:15:37.93
with us after He forgive, right?
00:15:37.93\00:15:40.44
After he died on the cross,
00:15:40.44\00:15:41.84
He implore, He invite us to be
00:15:41.84\00:15:44.14
reconciled with Him.
00:15:44.14\00:15:45.64
He ready to accept us any time.
00:15:45.64\00:15:47.74
>> So what you're saying
00:15:47.74\00:15:48.78
is that when Jesus was
00:15:48.78\00:15:50.35
dying on the cross, He said,
00:15:50.35\00:15:52.41
"Father, forgive them.
00:15:52.41\00:15:53.42
They don't know
00:15:53.42\00:15:54.42
what they're doing."
00:15:54.42\00:15:55.48
They weren't asking for
00:15:55.48\00:15:57.09
forgiveness, but He was
00:15:57.09\00:15:59.52
forgiving them.
00:15:59.52\00:16:01.42
So forgiveness is
00:16:01.42\00:16:03.29
we release
00:16:03.29\00:16:05.33
any feelings of revenge or grief
00:16:05.33\00:16:07.60
or anger or grudges
00:16:07.60\00:16:09.13
against people, but they
00:16:09.13\00:16:11.57
have to choose to come back,
00:16:11.57\00:16:13.44
right, to have a reconciliation.
00:16:13.44\00:16:15.60
So if they still have that
00:16:15.60\00:16:16.64
bitterness in their heart,
00:16:16.64\00:16:17.74
it doesn't mean they're
00:16:17.74\00:16:18.67
gonna be reconciled
00:16:18.67\00:16:19.67
unless they choose that.
00:16:19.67\00:16:20.91
>> Yeah.
00:16:20.91\00:16:21.91
When you forgive it mean you
00:16:21.91\00:16:23.65
love the person and you don't-
00:16:23.65\00:16:25.78
you hate sin, what they did
00:16:25.78\00:16:27.52
to you.
00:16:27.52\00:16:28.35
So when you separate sin from
00:16:28.35\00:16:30.15
sinner, you not only help
00:16:30.15\00:16:32.55
the person, you help yourself
00:16:32.55\00:16:34.52
because you're not allow the sin
00:16:34.52\00:16:36.06
that they committed to affect
00:16:36.06\00:16:37.39
your life.
00:16:37.39\00:16:38.49
You have heard the saying
00:16:39.73\00:16:40.83
that says when you not forgive,
00:16:40.83\00:16:43.10
it like you drink poison,
00:16:43.10\00:16:44.53
hoping the other one die
00:16:44.53\00:16:46.50
because the effect of sin.
00:16:46.50\00:16:48.14
And that's what Jesus did to us.
00:16:48.14\00:16:50.14
Even though He was not affect
00:16:50.14\00:16:51.57
with the sin of us, but He
00:16:51.57\00:16:52.81
had to die on the cross for us,
00:16:52.81\00:16:55.48
right, because our sin.
00:16:55.48\00:16:56.98
In the other text in 1 John 1:9
00:16:56.98\00:16:58.95
said we have to confess.
00:16:58.95\00:17:00.68
>> You have to make
00:17:00.68\00:17:01.68
the choice...
00:17:01.68\00:17:02.58
[DR. LY] Yeah.
00:17:02.58\00:17:03.42
...to let go and to let God
00:17:03.42\00:17:06.19
forgive you and
00:17:06.19\00:17:08.29
work His forgiveness through you
00:17:08.29\00:17:10.33
in the lives of others.
00:17:10.33\00:17:12.03
>> I want to add on that,
00:17:12.03\00:17:13.19
because if you do not accept
00:17:13.19\00:17:14.86
God forgiveness for you,
00:17:14.86\00:17:16.36
you cannot forgive others.
00:17:16.36\00:17:18.53
You can give to others only
00:17:18.53\00:17:20.00
what you have.
00:17:20.00\00:17:21.14
When you say, I cannot forgive,
00:17:21.14\00:17:22.30
this one is so hard, then you
00:17:22.30\00:17:24.11
have to ask question,
00:17:24.11\00:17:25.81
who God is in your life.
00:17:25.81\00:17:27.21
Did God forgive you?
00:17:27.21\00:17:28.84
And is God able to forgive
00:17:28.84\00:17:30.25
this person or not?
00:17:30.25\00:17:31.91
God forgive all
00:17:31.91\00:17:33.45
and who we are that say
00:17:33.45\00:17:34.72
we cannot forgive?
00:17:34.72\00:17:35.65
>> So one of the things that
00:17:35.65\00:17:36.75
I found interesting is that
00:17:36.75\00:17:37.92
you did your doctorate
00:17:37.92\00:17:39.05
on forgiveness, and you
00:17:39.05\00:17:40.56
found out that there were
00:17:40.56\00:17:42.56
nonbelievers, many who were
00:17:42.56\00:17:45.09
studying about forgiveness
00:17:45.09\00:17:47.03
and how when you forgive,
00:17:47.03\00:17:48.40
you're healed.
00:17:48.40\00:17:49.43
[DR. LY] Yeah, the reason why
00:17:49.43\00:17:50.47
I'm go back to take
00:17:50.47\00:17:51.53
my doctor degree,
00:17:51.53\00:17:52.57
not because I want to have
00:17:52.57\00:17:53.64
a title, but when I talk with
00:17:53.64\00:17:55.17
one person who not able to
00:17:55.17\00:17:57.04
forgive their member,
00:17:57.04\00:17:58.07
his member, the 70-years-old
00:17:58.07\00:18:00.74
member that who not able
00:18:00.74\00:18:01.94
to forgive.
00:18:01.94\00:18:02.88
I was shocked to know that
00:18:02.88\00:18:04.25
the pastor not forgive.
00:18:04.25\00:18:06.05
So...but when I talk to him,
00:18:06.05\00:18:08.12
he will not listen to me because
00:18:08.12\00:18:09.48
he said, "Who are you?
00:18:09.48\00:18:10.82
You just start ministry.
00:18:10.82\00:18:12.02
I'm in ministry 35 years
00:18:12.02\00:18:13.82
before you."
00:18:13.82\00:18:15.06
That reason why I go back to
00:18:15.06\00:18:16.52
take my doctor degree.
00:18:16.52\00:18:18.39
Come back to the story is,
00:18:18.39\00:18:19.83
when I start my doctor degree,
00:18:19.83\00:18:21.63
in that time, research study
00:18:21.63\00:18:23.26
on forgiveness,
00:18:23.26\00:18:24.67
non-religious study
00:18:24.67\00:18:27.60
only around about 200, 300
00:18:27.60\00:18:29.57
research study because the
00:18:29.57\00:18:31.27
outside world do not believe
00:18:31.27\00:18:32.44
that forgiveness have some
00:18:32.44\00:18:33.54
effect with the physical,
00:18:33.54\00:18:35.61
with the relationship.
00:18:35.61\00:18:37.31
But just from 2005 to '11...
00:18:38.48\00:18:41.48
...at the end when I graduate,
00:18:42.28\00:18:44.59
it more than,
00:18:44.59\00:18:46.12
I think, three, four thousand
00:18:46.12\00:18:47.89
research study unforgiveness.
00:18:47.89\00:18:49.96
It's not based on Scripture,
00:18:49.96\00:18:54.00
research.
00:18:54.00\00:18:55.20
And one research that I read,
00:18:55.20\00:18:56.50
you know, I don't remember
00:18:56.50\00:18:58.47
the number, it's maybe around
00:18:58.47\00:18:59.73
seven to one thousand people
00:18:59.73\00:19:01.84
who have cancer,
00:19:01.84\00:19:03.00
they traced back to four year,
00:19:03.00\00:19:04.87
five year before that,
00:19:04.87\00:19:07.11
most of them 90%,
00:19:07.11\00:19:09.08
even more,
00:19:09.08\00:19:10.35
they have the incident that
00:19:10.35\00:19:11.98
happen in their life that they
00:19:11.98\00:19:13.35
still hold, they cannot forgive.
00:19:13.35\00:19:15.38
Divorce or inheritance
00:19:15.38\00:19:18.02
or fighting or boss,
00:19:18.02\00:19:20.52
cheating or whatever.
00:19:20.52\00:19:22.12
Most of them.
00:19:23.76\00:19:25.06
And it was shock
00:19:25.99\00:19:27.23
when I read that.
00:19:27.23\00:19:28.60
Well, let me share with one
00:19:28.60\00:19:29.63
verse if don't mind,
00:19:29.63\00:19:31.60
because I like to share
00:19:31.60\00:19:32.73
the Word of God, because only
00:19:32.73\00:19:34.17
the Word of God that led me
00:19:34.17\00:19:35.50
to this level I am today.
00:19:35.50\00:19:38.01
Hebrews 12, you know, this my
00:19:38.01\00:19:39.87
favourite text.
00:19:39.87\00:19:40.94
This one of my text
00:19:40.94\00:19:42.14
in my research.
00:19:42.14\00:19:43.38
"Pursue peace with all people...
00:19:43.38\00:19:45.65
...and holiness..."
00:19:46.68\00:19:49.08
You see, unforgiveness is not
00:19:50.59\00:19:52.42
holiness, right?
00:19:52.42\00:19:53.32
Because you?boiling
00:19:53.32\00:19:54.22
inside of you, angry also.
00:19:54.22\00:19:55.96
You cannot sleep,
00:19:55.96\00:19:56.89
you cannot eat.
00:19:56.89\00:19:58.76
He said, "Pursue peace with
00:19:58.76\00:20:00.66
all people, holiness, without
00:20:00.66\00:20:02.60
which no one will see the Lord."
00:20:02.60\00:20:04.50
If you don't have that,
00:20:05.50\00:20:07.54
you don't see the Lord.
00:20:07.54\00:20:08.90
You don't have peace, you don't
00:20:08.90\00:20:10.01
have mind to read the Bible.
00:20:10.01\00:20:12.24
But the verse 15 is
00:20:12.24\00:20:13.61
powerful to me.
00:20:13.61\00:20:14.78
"Looking carefully lest anyone
00:20:14.78\00:20:16.91
fall short of the grace of God,
00:20:16.91\00:20:19.25
lest any root of bitterness
00:20:19.25\00:20:20.85
springing up cause trouble,
00:20:20.85\00:20:23.25
by this many become defiled."
00:20:23.25\00:20:25.39
So when we not forgive,
00:20:26.19\00:20:28.29
we said God's grace not enough
00:20:28.29\00:20:30.39
for that person, right?
00:20:30.39\00:20:32.96
We said God not able to
00:20:32.96\00:20:34.83
forgive them.
00:20:34.83\00:20:35.63
That's why we don't forgive.
00:20:35.63\00:20:37.00
And at the same time,
00:20:37.00\00:20:37.97
what affect here?
00:20:37.97\00:20:39.00
Affect here is the root of
00:20:39.00\00:20:40.54
bitterness grow, but in the
00:20:40.54\00:20:42.44
Greek word and springing up,
00:20:42.44\00:20:43.71
it not just grow slowly,
00:20:43.71\00:20:45.57
it multiply big time.
00:20:45.57\00:20:48.01
And then everyone around us
00:20:48.98\00:20:50.55
defiled.
00:20:50.55\00:20:51.95
So when you not forgive,
00:20:51.95\00:20:53.11
not just affect your health,
00:20:53.11\00:20:54.78
but affect your family, your
00:20:54.78\00:20:56.18
marriage, your relationship,
00:20:56.18\00:20:57.49
everyone that you talk to
00:20:57.49\00:20:58.85
or you connect to.
00:20:58.85\00:21:00.12
We have the power, you know.
00:21:00.12\00:21:02.22
So that the reason why I believe
00:21:02.22\00:21:03.79
that forgiveness is the key
00:21:03.79\00:21:05.89
to get the healing,
00:21:05.89\00:21:06.93
to get to healthy life,
00:21:06.93\00:21:08.63
and joyful, thankful.
00:21:08.63\00:21:11.53
You see, the Bible said
00:21:11.53\00:21:12.77
to be thankful in everything.
00:21:12.77\00:21:14.67
Now, I understand that.
00:21:14.67\00:21:16.34
Yeah.
00:21:16.34\00:21:17.14
>> That's beautiful.
00:21:17.91\00:21:18.87
What a beautiful testimony.
00:21:18.87\00:21:20.41
[DR. LY] Thank you.
00:21:20.41\00:21:21.74
>> Dr. Ly, I just have
00:21:21.74\00:21:22.78
one question for you.
00:21:22.78\00:21:23.98
How did you end up in Canada?
00:21:23.98\00:21:26.51
How did you come here?
00:21:26.51\00:21:27.85
[DR. LY] It's a miracle.
00:21:27.85\00:21:28.82
It's a long story
00:21:28.82\00:21:29.78
with that, too.
00:21:29.78\00:21:30.69
But, make a story short,
00:21:30.69\00:21:32.22
I was sponsored by one couple
00:21:32.22\00:21:34.52
from other denominations,
00:21:34.52\00:21:36.49
from other faith, and because
00:21:36.49\00:21:39.06
of my student, I was a teacher
00:21:39.06\00:21:40.93
and leader in the church after
00:21:40.93\00:21:43.00
I was baptized
00:21:43.00\00:21:44.27
in the refugee camp,
00:21:44.27\00:21:45.33
and most of my students were
00:21:45.33\00:21:46.43
sponsored by that denomination.
00:21:46.43\00:21:48.57
They came to Canada and they
00:21:48.57\00:21:50.54
gave my name to that couple,
00:21:50.54\00:21:52.01
because that couple looking for
00:21:52.01\00:21:53.44
somebody to help form
00:21:53.44\00:21:55.08
the Cambodian group
00:21:55.08\00:21:56.61
that they were sponsor
00:21:56.61\00:21:57.61
to become a church.
00:21:57.61\00:21:59.01
So he asking me if I want
00:21:59.01\00:22:00.68
to come, but my hope is
00:22:00.68\00:22:02.42
to go to Australia because
00:22:02.42\00:22:03.55
I have sponsorship to go
00:22:03.55\00:22:04.55
Australia from the Adventist
00:22:04.55\00:22:06.02
church there, because they
00:22:06.02\00:22:08.19
want me to be the leader
00:22:08.19\00:22:09.29
in that, the group that
00:22:09.29\00:22:10.43
go there.
00:22:10.43\00:22:11.66
So make story short, I was
00:22:11.66\00:22:13.26
rejected by Canadian,
00:22:13.26\00:22:14.50
by Australian, by French,
00:22:14.50\00:22:16.90
by U.S.,
00:22:16.90\00:22:18.03
all four country.
00:22:18.03\00:22:19.10
Most people just sleep
00:22:19.10\00:22:20.57
and not eat if you were rejected
00:22:20.57\00:22:22.60
by that- like that.
00:22:22.60\00:22:24.51
I was rejected today,
00:22:24.51\00:22:26.04
I go back to teach tomorrow
00:22:26.04\00:22:28.08
in the class and my students
00:22:28.08\00:22:29.48
wonder, "Oh, you come back
00:22:29.48\00:22:30.68
to teach?
00:22:30.68\00:22:31.48
What going on?
00:22:31.48\00:22:32.48
You're not...?"
00:22:32.48\00:22:33.45
I said "No, my life now
00:22:33.45\00:22:34.58
it belong to God.
00:22:34.58\00:22:35.62
If God want me to go, I will go.
00:22:35.62\00:22:36.92
If not, that's okay.
00:22:36.92\00:22:38.95
And so that's how I came.
00:22:38.95\00:22:40.89
We make arrangement.
00:22:40.89\00:22:43.39
I told him that I'm a leader of
00:22:43.39\00:22:45.39
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:22:45.39\00:22:47.00
but I can come and help you.
00:22:47.00\00:22:48.60
So that what I came.
00:22:48.60\00:22:50.00
Four years I help them
00:22:51.53\00:22:52.97
translate their sermon.
00:22:52.97\00:22:54.60
The pastor preach on Sunday,
00:22:54.60\00:22:56.67
I translate for them, I go to
00:22:56.67\00:22:58.01
church on Saturday.
00:22:58.01\00:22:59.87
I try to convert them, they try
00:22:59.87\00:23:01.34
to convert me at the same time.
00:23:01.34\00:23:03.18
There's a story on that.
00:23:03.18\00:23:04.51
I think I share with you before.
00:23:04.51\00:23:06.82
They even- because of that
00:23:06.82\00:23:08.48
pastor, that's why I went
00:23:08.48\00:23:09.58
to school today.
00:23:09.58\00:23:10.72
[MIKE] So did you come to Canada
00:23:11.42\00:23:13.86
wanting to become a pastor?
00:23:13.86\00:23:15.49
[DR. LY] No.
00:23:15.49\00:23:16.66
I was running away for the
00:23:16.66\00:23:17.89
four years because I don't
00:23:17.89\00:23:19.59
believe that I can qualify
00:23:19.59\00:23:20.90
to be a pastor with my
00:23:20.90\00:23:22.16
imperfection, my rebellious
00:23:22.16\00:23:25.17
attitude that I used to have
00:23:25.17\00:23:26.40
before.
00:23:26.40\00:23:27.34
So I make excuse.
00:23:27.34\00:23:29.30
But because of the pastor
00:23:29.30\00:23:31.37
of the church that I?elping
00:23:31.37\00:23:33.68
to translate his sermon,
00:23:33.68\00:23:35.18
he said, "You need to go
00:23:35.18\00:23:36.48
to school."
00:23:36.48\00:23:38.31
I said, "I cannot because
00:23:38.31\00:23:40.05
my English is not good."
00:23:40.05\00:23:41.75
So he tricked me to go to
00:23:41.75\00:23:43.05
that school one day and
00:23:43.05\00:23:45.65
take the test.
00:23:45.65\00:23:46.62
I passed the test.
00:23:46.62\00:23:47.56
He said, "Now you can come."
00:23:47.56\00:23:48.49
I said, "No, I cannot come
00:23:48.49\00:23:49.66
because I don't have money.
00:23:49.66\00:23:51.83
So the week after he brought me
00:23:51.83\00:23:53.90
to meet a few people that in
00:23:53.90\00:23:56.77
the headquarter of that church.
00:23:56.77\00:23:58.47
So read the paper on the table,
00:23:58.47\00:24:01.44
if you agree, just sign
00:24:01.44\00:24:02.60
all of them.
00:24:02.60\00:24:03.84
So I read it, it's scholarship
00:24:03.84\00:24:05.31
for four years to go to that
00:24:05.31\00:24:06.31
university and four years salary
00:24:06.31\00:24:08.28
when I come back to take care of
00:24:08.28\00:24:10.08
the group that I arranged.
00:24:10.08\00:24:11.31
I form, I have them.
00:24:11.31\00:24:12.95
And that moment I have
00:24:13.75\00:24:15.15
no more excuse.
00:24:15.15\00:24:16.12
I told the pastor, said,
00:24:16.12\00:24:17.55
"Can I pray?
00:24:17.55\00:24:18.52
Can I think about that
00:24:18.52\00:24:19.42
one week?"
00:24:19.42\00:24:20.36
So we came back
00:24:20.36\00:24:22.12
and I told pastor, "I need to
00:24:22.12\00:24:23.96
ask you, I can make appointment
00:24:23.96\00:24:25.46
to see you.
00:24:25.46\00:24:26.29
One question that if you can
00:24:26.29\00:24:27.30
answer me, I will go to
00:24:27.30\00:24:29.33
the school.
00:24:29.33\00:24:31.00
Where in the Bible that...
00:24:31.00\00:24:32.47
...the Bible said we need to
00:24:33.97\00:24:35.20
change from Sabbath to Sunday...
00:24:35.20\00:24:37.47
...worship?"
00:24:38.37\00:24:39.71
Because that's all I know when
00:24:39.71\00:24:41.48
I came out from refugee to here.
00:24:41.48\00:24:43.35
I don't know much theology
00:24:43.35\00:24:44.55
at the time.
00:24:44.55\00:24:45.95
So he go around all, give all
00:24:45.95\00:24:47.65
reason from Old Testament,
00:24:47.65\00:24:48.85
everything.
00:24:48.85\00:24:49.72
I still said no, it's not...
00:24:49.72\00:24:51.22
...it's not..."
00:24:51.85\00:24:52.79
And finally he said,
00:24:52.79\00:24:54.02
"Sereivudh, you are right.
00:24:54.02\00:24:55.62
It's nowhere in the Bible
00:24:55.62\00:24:56.79
to change that."
00:24:56.79\00:24:58.43
I said, "So why, Pastor,
00:24:58.43\00:25:00.30
why you still in the church?
00:25:00.30\00:25:02.36
Why you not obey the law?
00:25:02.36\00:25:04.77
He said, "Sereivudh,
00:25:04.77\00:25:06.60
I've been in this church
00:25:06.60\00:25:08.07
since I were born.
00:25:08.07\00:25:09.14
My great grandfather,
00:25:09.14\00:25:10.37
my grandfather in this.
00:25:10.37\00:25:12.07
And now I only ten more years
00:25:12.07\00:25:13.81
to retire.
00:25:13.81\00:25:14.84
You want me to quit on this?
00:25:14.84\00:25:16.54
Look at my children in school
00:25:16.54\00:25:17.91
right now, and my retirement."
00:25:17.91\00:25:20.68
I said, okay.
00:25:20.68\00:25:21.85
I can- I have nothing to say.
00:25:21.85\00:25:23.65
Then he bless me.
00:25:23.65\00:25:24.79
He said, "Okay, I know you want
00:25:24.79\00:25:26.62
to do the right thing.
00:25:26.62\00:25:27.66
You can go, I bless you."
00:25:27.66\00:25:29.56
He bought the commentaries and
00:25:29.56\00:25:30.93
give me a Bible and commentary
00:25:30.93\00:25:32.56
as a gift.
00:25:32.56\00:25:33.53
That when I went to CUC
00:25:33.53\00:25:35.80
at the time.
00:25:35.80\00:25:36.73
>> And you studied and you
00:25:36.73\00:25:37.60
became a pastor.
00:25:37.60\00:25:38.67
[DR. LY] Yeah.
00:25:38.67\00:25:39.43
>> We've come to the end of our
00:25:39.43\00:25:40.57
time with you together, Dr. Ly.
00:25:40.57\00:25:42.70
I wonder if you could pray.
00:25:42.70\00:25:44.57
Pray for our viewers.
00:25:44.57\00:25:45.71
Maybe they're listening to this
00:25:45.71\00:25:47.01
now and they're saying, "Hey,
00:25:47.01\00:25:48.01
I need to forgive."
00:25:48.01\00:25:48.98
>> Yep.
00:25:48.98\00:25:49.68
Let's pray.
00:25:49.68\00:25:50.65
Heavenly Father, Lord,
00:25:50.65\00:25:52.05
we thank You
00:25:52.05\00:25:53.31
for privilege today.
00:25:53.31\00:25:55.02
And I'm so thankful for Mike
00:25:55.02\00:25:57.25
and René able to,
00:25:57.25\00:25:59.29
we can have this time together
00:25:59.29\00:26:01.26
and especially the audience that
00:26:01.26\00:26:02.66
you have brought to listen to
00:26:02.66\00:26:04.36
this interview, Lord.
00:26:04.36\00:26:05.89
It nothing accidentally
00:26:06.76\00:26:08.46
on this earth, so I just want to
00:26:08.46\00:26:10.37
pray that- so I pray that
00:26:10.37\00:26:11.47
pray that- so I pray that
00:26:11.47\00:26:11.83
You bless each family who listen
00:26:12.17\00:26:13.84
to this broadcast.
00:26:13.84\00:26:16.20
Each person that who going
00:26:16.20\00:26:17.67
through difficulty, do not know
00:26:17.67\00:26:19.31
how to forgive.
00:26:19.31\00:26:20.68
Lord, I pray that You reveal
00:26:20.68\00:26:21.91
to them the same way You have
00:26:21.91\00:26:23.21
done to me.
00:26:23.21\00:26:24.08
And thank You.
00:26:24.08\00:26:25.15
We know that You are sovereign.
00:26:25.15\00:26:27.38
You still listen to our call.
00:26:27.38\00:26:29.55
You still send the people
00:26:29.55\00:26:30.82
in our life and nothing
00:26:30.82\00:26:32.55
impossible for us to get healed.
00:26:32.55\00:26:34.62
We pray in Jesus name, amen.
00:26:34.62\00:26:36.59
[MIKE & RENÉ] Amen.
00:26:36.59\00:26:37.56
>> Dr. Ly, thank you so much
00:26:38.56\00:26:40.13
for joining us on
00:26:40.13\00:26:41.70
It Is Written Canada.
00:26:41.70\00:26:43.00
and sharing your
00:26:43.00\00:26:44.07
miraculous story.
00:26:44.07\00:26:45.63
>> Thank you very much for
00:26:45.63\00:26:46.63
opportunity to share, too.
00:26:46.63\00:26:48.10
>> Friends, I hope you have been
00:26:48.97\00:26:50.27
inspired by Dr. Sereivudh Ly's
00:26:50.27\00:26:52.24
experience of how he was able
00:26:52.24\00:26:54.68
to forgive the Khmer Rouge.
00:26:54.68\00:26:57.18
Yet you may be still struggling
00:26:57.18\00:26:59.58
to forgive someone
00:26:59.58\00:27:01.22
who has harmed you deeply.
00:27:01.22\00:27:03.39
When emotions run too deep
00:27:04.29\00:27:06.69
and forgiveness feels like
00:27:06.69\00:27:08.56
an impossibility,
00:27:08.56\00:27:10.23
what do you do?
00:27:10.23\00:27:11.59
>> Our free offer for you is
00:27:12.86\00:27:15.16
What To Do When You Can't
00:27:15.16\00:27:17.03
Forgive.
00:27:17.03\00:27:18.37
This little booklet will provide
00:27:18.37\00:27:20.34
practical answers that will
00:27:20.34\00:27:22.24
help you forgive when you feel
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like you just can't forgive.
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Before you go, we would like to
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thank all of you who have
00:27:30.18\00:27:31.81
supported the ministry of
00:27:31.81\00:27:33.42
It Is Written Canada
00:27:33.42\00:27:34.88
with your prayers
00:27:34.88\00:27:36.42
and financial contributions.
00:27:36.42\00:27:38.39
Without your support,
00:27:39.29\00:27:40.96
this television ministry
00:27:40.96\00:27:42.86
could not have reached
00:27:42.86\00:27:43.99
so many people
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for so many decades.
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>> Yes, thank you.
00:27:47.50\00:27:48.80
And we would like to invite you
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to also follow us on Instagram
00:27:51.00\00:27:53.40
and Facebook and subscribe to
00:27:53.40\00:27:55.14
our YouTube channel, and also
00:27:55.14\00:27:56.74
listen to our podcasts.
00:27:56.74\00:27:58.57
And if you go to our website,
00:27:58.57\00:28:00.38
you can see our latest programs.
00:28:00.38\00:28:02.81
>> Friends, to be honest,
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Jesus is offering you a life
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that is beyond our ongoing
00:28:07.48\00:28:09.58
struggles with the pain,
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suffering, and sorrows
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of this life.
00:28:13.79\00:28:15.02
We would like to recommend
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you open the Bible,
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where it is recorded that Jesus
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Himself found His assurance
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to defeat the devil
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through the word of His Father
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when He declared...
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[uplifting music]
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[jungle sounds]
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¤¤
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