[theme music]
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¤¤
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[jungle sounds]
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>> Welcome to It Is Written
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Canada.
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Thank you for joining us.
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The arrival of the Khmer Rouge
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in April of 1975
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marked the beginning
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of a horrific era
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in Cambodian history.
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>> The Khmer Rouge
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told the people of Cambodia
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to leave their cities
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to save themselves
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from an American bombing
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that was never planned,
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with the promise that the
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Cambodian people could return
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within three days.
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However, the people were
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never allowed to return
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to their homes.
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Anyone who did not leave
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the city was killed.
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>> The prisoners in the camps
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were subjected to
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grueling conditions,
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working up to 90 hours a week
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in the boiling heat,
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pouring rain, and little to
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no food, only a bit of
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watered down rice porridge.
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The leader of the Khmer Rouge,
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communist dictator Pol Pot,
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communist dictator Pol Pot,
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was the one who was held
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responsible for perpetrating
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the Cambodian genocide,
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killing more than
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two million people, targeting
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intellectuals, Muslims,
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Christians, Vietnamese, Thai,
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Christians, Vietnamese, Thai,
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Chinese and other religious,
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ethnic and non-Khmer people
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who lived in the country.
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From 1975 to 1979, more than
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a quarter of the Cambodian
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population perished through
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executions, overwork, starvation
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and disease.
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>> Today, our special guest
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is Dr. Sereivudh Ly,
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who miraculously survived the
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Cambodian killing fields
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and has agreed to share
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his story with us
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on It Is Written Canada.
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>> Dr. Ly, thank you for joining
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us on It Is Written Canada.
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>> Thank you, Mike, for the
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time, for the invitation
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for me to be here,
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it's an honour to share.
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>> Dr. Ly, you were quite young,
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you were in your early teens
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when this happened, when the
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Khmer Rouge came in.
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Take us back to that time.
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It was a very dark time.
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What do you remember?
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What happened?
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[DR. LY] When the Khmer Rouge
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came in, in 1975, the darkest...
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...part of my life.
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I lose my both two sister and
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two brother and my both parents
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were killed by the Khmer Rouge
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during that time.
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And because he used to be
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a captain in the army,
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and so in the government
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during that time, when they
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found out he was an official...
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...from the government before.
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So they kill him,
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they slaughter him, yeah.
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I believe that the leading of
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God that we went to visit
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my grandmas in the different
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province, and then the airport
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was bombed, we cannot fly back.
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And from there we separate.
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And I never heard from them
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since that time until now.
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>> Yeah, it's a miraculous thing
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that you escaped.
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Were you safe where you were?
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>> Not really.
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Because when in that city
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they all forced us out,
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to get out also.
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So we had to walk out from
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the city because they told us
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that only three days,
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you can take whatever you can
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you can take whatever you can
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take, but only three days.
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So in the chaos,
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you can see
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everyone had to come out from
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their house at the same time.
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The road, it fill up
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with people.
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It's not just the one who can
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walk, but the one in hospital,
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they have to move out with
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the hospital bed also
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with the family.
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And if no family to push
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them out, they just killed them
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along the road there.
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Yeah.
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[RENÉ] So, Dr. Ly, you had to
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leave once again.
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What did you take with you
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when you left?
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>> They told us just to take
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what we can take.
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Don't take too much because
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only three days you will
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come back to your place.
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So I took some of my uniform,
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student uniform with me.
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Those clothes that able to
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for me to exchange to get
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some rice, some food to eat
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along the way.
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And I, one thing I remember
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so well with the small ax,
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so well with the small ax,
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because I have two sister and
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my grandma, and I was
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a young boy, and want to
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take them so I take.
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I need to take this with me.
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[MIKE] You took an ax?
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>> Yeah, take an ax with me
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just in case it's something
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I can protect them, right?
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But never knowing that ax,
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it helped me when we get to
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the place in the jungle...
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...where they set us,
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...where they set us,
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a lot of land in the bush
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and they step ten step for
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and they step ten step for
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each family, take this,
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your plant.
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And then whatever you have,
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you had to cut the tree,
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cut the bush, everything.
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So you can make a hut to stay.
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The small ax that I have, that
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what I able to for me to cut.
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So the first two week of one,
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I think almost two week,
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we don't have anything
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to sleep under.
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So we sleep open field
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because I cannot cut anything
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too much.
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>> So you were leaving the city
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and people were getting on
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the back of a truck.
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>> I lift up my grandmas and
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my sister go up on the truck,
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and then suddenly the
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Khmer Rouge came around.
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The driver came around with
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a rifle and pointed to me,
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"You get you got down."
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Because I'm trying to hang,
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to go up with them already.
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And they said, "No.
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Get down and walk."
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I said, "Why?
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It's not fair.
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Why the people can ride on the
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truck, I cannot ride?"
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"I said I told you to get down
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and walk.
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Do you want to die now?"
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I said no.
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Okay, I bring my grandma and
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my sister back down and-
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but in my heart, I'm not happy
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because it's not fair.
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It's not right.
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But- and then he look at me
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as he know that I'm angry.
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But he said to me, "When you go
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to where you want to go,
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the village that where you stay,
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you plant two trees, the front
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tree and the back tree."
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I don't understand,
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what does it mean?
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Why I need to plant and cut
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a tree, when I plant this...
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I don't understand that until
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a couple maybe a year later,
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I begin to understand what
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the meaning, what he's
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trying to say.
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But why I'm share this story?
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Because I feel like God have
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sent that guy to
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save my life.
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And we walk away, just only
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my family and then I later on
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see one family come along.
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And then after we move out
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about a kilometre, we begin
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to see dead people
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along the highway
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and I begin to realize.
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I put the picture together,
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that's the reason why the truck
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had come back so quickly
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because they told us about
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50 kilometres, how can it
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come back in less than
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half an hour?
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Now I put the picture together,
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begin to realize that
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I'd been saved.
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[MIKE] So all those people
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on that truck...
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[DR. LY] They were killed
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along the way there.
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[MIKE] Right.
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>> That's why when they
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bring the people out,
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the truck coming back
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in less than half an hour,
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the same truck, because
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remember watching
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the license plate.
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You can say that it's a
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accident or miracle.
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To me, now I know the Lord.
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God have send people to help.
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>> So, Dr. Ly, what kind of
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lessons did you learn
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while you were surviving?
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>> Authorities, responsibility
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and accountability.
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You know, during that time,
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during those three year,
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eight months, 20 days,
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I have authority to disobey
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or to obey what they
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tell me to do.
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And usually they tell you
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to do this, a certain thing.
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When you're done, you're free
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to find food, find something
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to eat.
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But if you're not done,
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you don't have food.
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We all have authority to choose
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to disobey or to obey.
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And when I obey, that's what
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make me survive.
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Even though my friend
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complaining, I keep,
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calm him down.
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Don't complain.
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Let's just do it
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Let's just do it
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and if we survive from
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the morning to the evening,
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we have one day.
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Because that time I tell
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my friend and said, you know,
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"Look at the sunrise and sunset.
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That tell- that helped me.
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That gave me hope.
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Because the sunset and sunrise
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never stop, regardless what
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never stop, regardless what
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people die around me.
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So I tell myself, if I
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just don't complain, just obey,
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do my job, responsibility they
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give to me.
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Cut the ten tree, or clear these
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ten trunk, all those things,
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just keep doing.
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When we obey and responsible,
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we give authority properly and
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responsible properly,
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we will survive.
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And that's what I call
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accountability.
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Because at the end,
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if I don't finish,
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I don't have food.
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Many time I don't have food.
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Because I was child,
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but I was tall.
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So they not put me in
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the children group, they put me
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to that, the youth group,
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the older group.
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So the old group
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make longer thing.
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The child, it can stay in
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village, but now I'm in a mobile
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in the field working with adults
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One time we wake up
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in the middle of the night.
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in the middle of the night.
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We just came back from the field
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and we have only
00:09:42.51\00:09:43.68
two set of clothes.
00:09:43.68\00:09:44.58
One dry and one wet, right?
00:09:44.58\00:09:46.61
So we came into the,
00:09:46.61\00:09:48.35
where we're supposed to sleep
00:09:48.35\00:09:50.45
from the raining.
00:09:50.45\00:09:51.52
You know, raining there,
00:09:51.52\00:09:52.09
You know, raining there,
00:09:52.09\00:09:52.52
it like monsoon.
00:09:52.52\00:09:53.82
It never stop.
00:09:53.82\00:09:55.89
So we change the clothes and
00:09:55.89\00:09:57.59
we go to sleep in the hammock.
00:09:57.59\00:09:59.56
Just about ten minute,
00:09:59.56\00:10:00.76
they whistle to get out again.
00:10:00.76\00:10:03.40
So many people do not get out
00:10:03.40\00:10:05.37
because we are so tired.
00:10:05.37\00:10:07.57
And everyone said,
00:10:07.57\00:10:09.30
"I'm not well, I'm sick."
00:10:09.30\00:10:10.41
This one sick, this one sick.
00:10:10.41\00:10:11.91
My friend with me, we sleep
00:10:11.91\00:10:14.11
almost side by side.
00:10:14.11\00:10:15.98
He said, "I'm not going either.
00:10:15.98\00:10:17.48
I'm sick."
00:10:17.48\00:10:18.48
And I almost say I'm sick, too.
00:10:18.48\00:10:20.62
Because we're so tired, right?
00:10:20.62\00:10:22.62
But that night, I don't know why
00:10:22.62\00:10:25.39
I said no, I'm gonna go
00:10:25.39\00:10:27.39
even though it gonna be
00:10:27.39\00:10:28.89
wet again, cold again,
00:10:28.89\00:10:30.33
because we just dry up and
00:10:30.33\00:10:31.86
able to sleep a little bit.
00:10:31.86\00:10:33.40
So I get out.
00:10:33.40\00:10:34.73
And that night, that day
00:10:34.73\00:10:35.86
when I came back, all my-
00:10:35.86\00:10:37.20
all the people were killed.
00:10:37.20\00:10:38.77
All my- one of my friends
00:10:38.77\00:10:39.80
were killed on that, too.
00:10:39.80\00:10:41.37
>> A lot of things were
00:10:41.37\00:10:42.40
happening to you.
00:10:42.40\00:10:43.57
You were- it wasn't-
00:10:43.57\00:10:45.77
We get this idea that there
00:10:45.77\00:10:46.84
were labour camps.
00:10:46.84\00:10:47.94
The whole country
00:10:47.94\00:10:49.98
was a labour camp.
00:10:49.98\00:10:51.45
>> Yeah.
00:10:51.45\00:10:51.91
>> So they were working
00:10:52.01\00:10:52.85
out in the jungle,
00:10:52.85\00:10:53.78
and you were working out
00:10:53.78\00:10:54.75
in the jungle, and there was
00:10:54.75\00:10:55.68
pouring rain and then
00:10:55.68\00:10:58.29
boiling heat.
00:10:58.29\00:10:59.72
And you don't get much to eat.
00:10:59.72\00:11:01.96
So you got sick.
00:11:01.96\00:11:03.96
You got sick twice.
00:11:03.96\00:11:05.36
>> Yeah.
00:11:05.36\00:11:06.36
>> Why didn't they just
00:11:06.36\00:11:07.40
leave you to die?
00:11:07.40\00:11:08.16
Why didn't they get-
00:11:08.16\00:11:08.96
Why did they send you
00:11:08.96\00:11:09.80
to the hospital?
00:11:09.80\00:11:10.73
>> Usually they kill you
00:11:10.73\00:11:12.33
because, the slogan of
00:11:12.33\00:11:14.97
what they said, you know,
00:11:14.97\00:11:16.54
if you cannot work, kill you,
00:11:16.54\00:11:19.04
it's not loss.
00:11:19.04\00:11:21.48
Keep you, it's not beneficial
00:11:21.48\00:11:23.08
for the government,
00:11:23.08\00:11:24.05
for the country.
00:11:24.05\00:11:25.05
So just kill.
00:11:25.05\00:11:27.02
Most of my friend die
00:11:27.02\00:11:28.08
because of that.
00:11:28.08\00:11:29.78
But many time I work
00:11:29.78\00:11:32.05
until I fell, fainted,
00:11:32.05\00:11:34.56
and fall down.
00:11:34.56\00:11:36.69
Even you sick, even I'm sick,
00:11:36.69\00:11:38.19
I won't tell them I'm sick
00:11:38.19\00:11:39.63
because sick people, no use.
00:11:39.63\00:11:41.86
They will kill you.
00:11:41.86\00:11:43.16
So you pretend that you're okay,
00:11:43.16\00:11:44.83
but you still working.
00:11:44.83\00:11:45.80
So two time that I've just faint
00:11:45.80\00:11:48.70
and unconscious
00:11:48.70\00:11:51.31
and wake up, I in hospital.
00:11:51.31\00:11:54.34
>> So they sent you
00:11:55.38\00:11:56.18
to the hospital?
00:11:56.18\00:11:56.95
>> They send me to hospital.
00:11:56.95\00:11:57.91
And my, even my sister all,
00:11:57.91\00:11:59.51
every one of them, they thinking
00:11:59.51\00:12:01.15
that I'm already killed.
00:12:01.15\00:12:03.15
And nobody know because
00:12:03.15\00:12:04.15
at that time, no communication.
00:12:04.15\00:12:06.72
You cannot traveling from one
00:12:06.72\00:12:07.89
village to the other.
00:12:07.89\00:12:09.19
You don't know what's going on.
00:12:09.19\00:12:11.29
And so both of my sisters
00:12:11.29\00:12:13.03
thinking that I would die.
00:12:13.03\00:12:14.93
So they put me in hospital
00:12:14.93\00:12:16.30
for three month.
00:12:16.30\00:12:18.30
That's the time I see how the
00:12:18.30\00:12:19.80
people take out at night.
00:12:19.80\00:12:21.50
One night, I see people would
00:12:21.50\00:12:23.17
take out from hospital.
00:12:23.17\00:12:24.94
When you get well and
00:12:24.94\00:12:26.24
you not go back, they take you
00:12:26.24\00:12:28.11
to kill also.
00:12:28.11\00:12:30.05
So that night,
00:12:30.05\00:12:32.15
I see how people,
00:12:32.15\00:12:33.88
how they brought people
00:12:33.88\00:12:34.88
to get killed, hand tied
00:12:34.88\00:12:36.92
at night time.
00:12:36.92\00:12:37.89
They always kill people
00:12:37.89\00:12:38.72
at night, they always
00:12:38.72\00:12:39.62
bring people at night,
00:12:39.62\00:12:40.69
not in daytime.
00:12:40.69\00:12:42.32
>> So you saw
00:12:42.32\00:12:43.26
a lot of attrocities?
00:12:43.26\00:12:44.19
>> I saw that, yeah.
00:12:44.19\00:12:45.46
And then the other time I, so
00:12:45.46\00:12:47.46
when I get well a little bit,
00:12:47.46\00:12:48.93
I said, "Oh I'm okay,
00:12:48.93\00:12:50.03
I'm go back to work now,"
00:12:50.03\00:12:51.57
because I see how they
00:12:51.57\00:12:52.87
kill people.
00:12:52.87\00:12:53.74
When you get well,
00:12:53.74\00:12:54.70
you stay longer, they kill you.
00:12:54.70\00:12:56.64
So I got back just only I think
00:12:56.64\00:12:59.21
a few day, I faint again,
00:12:59.21\00:13:01.14
I fell down again.
00:13:01.14\00:13:02.81
So this time they test me.
00:13:02.81\00:13:04.65
One of the lady, of the
00:13:04.65\00:13:05.71
Khmer Rouge lady, they bring,
00:13:05.71\00:13:07.68
you know, the condensed meal.
00:13:07.68\00:13:09.98
They test people before.
00:13:09.98\00:13:11.15
I didn't know that until
00:13:11.15\00:13:12.25
I went to the hospital.
00:13:12.25\00:13:13.66
If you drink that,
00:13:13.66\00:13:14.69
it mean you pretend to be sick.
00:13:14.69\00:13:16.26
So they just take you
00:13:16.26\00:13:17.19
to be killed.
00:13:17.19\00:13:18.19
>> Dr. Ly, this is so awful.
00:13:18.19\00:13:21.00
You are
00:13:21.00\00:13:22.40
in and out of hospital.
00:13:22.40\00:13:24.13
You're obeying and told
00:13:24.13\00:13:25.57
what you- doing what you were
00:13:25.57\00:13:27.67
told to do.
00:13:27.67\00:13:29.07
You're just living from sunset
00:13:29.07\00:13:31.87
to sunrise.
00:13:31.87\00:13:33.21
And where were your sisters and
00:13:34.04\00:13:36.58
your grandmother at this time?
00:13:36.58\00:13:37.95
Because it sounds like
00:13:37.95\00:13:39.18
you were separated.
00:13:39.18\00:13:40.35
Were they together?
00:13:40.35\00:13:41.72
>> No, they were not together
00:13:42.52\00:13:43.82
either, because after we
00:13:43.82\00:13:45.82
evacuated, go to the place
00:13:45.82\00:13:47.39
where we stayed, they start to
00:13:47.39\00:13:48.66
separate us.
00:13:48.66\00:13:49.82
The men to a men group and
00:13:49.82\00:13:51.43
women to a woman group.
00:13:51.43\00:13:52.83
The younger to a younger
00:13:52.83\00:13:54.46
and the older, like my grandma,
00:13:54.46\00:13:56.46
they allowed to stay
00:13:56.46\00:13:57.40
in the village.
00:13:57.40\00:13:58.20
[MIKE] And there was no way
00:13:58.20\00:13:59.13
of communicating.
00:13:59.13\00:13:59.93
You probably thought they
00:13:59.93\00:14:01.00
were dead, they probably thought
00:14:01.00\00:14:01.94
you were dead, you know...
00:14:01.94\00:14:02.97
>> So, Dr. Ly,
00:14:02.97\00:14:04.21
what do you think
00:14:04.21\00:14:06.31
motivated the Khmer Rouge to...
00:14:06.31\00:14:09.21
...to be so evil?
00:14:09.78\00:14:11.18
>> Now, when I come to this side
00:14:12.11\00:14:14.05
of the world and when I met
00:14:14.05\00:14:15.82
Jesus and learn the scripture,
00:14:15.82\00:14:17.45
I believe it one of the thing
00:14:17.45\00:14:19.25
that make us to do
00:14:19.25\00:14:20.79
those kind of thing, it
00:14:20.79\00:14:22.62
identity confusion
00:14:22.62\00:14:24.59
or identity crisis.
00:14:24.59\00:14:27.13
You know, that the three words.
00:14:27.13\00:14:29.20
If you want, if I can share with
00:14:29.20\00:14:30.57
the three word that learned,
00:14:30.57\00:14:31.63
when you have identity crisis,
00:14:31.63\00:14:33.94
when you have identity crisis,
00:14:33.94\00:14:34.67
three things will happen
00:14:34.67\00:14:35.67
in your life.
00:14:35.67\00:14:36.67
One is fear.
00:14:36.67\00:14:37.97
The other one you can be
00:14:37.97\00:14:39.24
prideful, pride.
00:14:39.24\00:14:41.01
And the third one, you can be
00:14:41.01\00:14:42.18
so selfish.
00:14:42.18\00:14:43.35
You see, they evacuate us out
00:14:44.01\00:14:47.02
because they are afraid that
00:14:47.02\00:14:48.45
the people like me,
00:14:48.45\00:14:49.68
like my group, my people
00:14:49.68\00:14:51.22
will fight back with them.
00:14:51.22\00:14:52.69
So that's why they kill
00:14:52.69\00:14:55.09
the intellect, they kill
00:14:55.09\00:14:56.22
the student, even myself,
00:14:56.22\00:14:58.46
I had to pretend that
00:14:58.46\00:14:59.46
I could not read.
00:14:59.46\00:15:01.10
My cousin who wear glasses,
00:15:01.10\00:15:02.90
he was killed on the spot.
00:15:02.90\00:15:04.33
[MIKE] Because he wore glasses.
00:15:04.33\00:15:05.87
They thought he was intelligent.
00:15:05.87\00:15:06.87
>> Yeah.
00:15:06.87\00:15:07.70
So I think because
00:15:07.70\00:15:09.14
identity crisis, they think that
00:15:09.14\00:15:11.37
they don't need anybody.
00:15:11.37\00:15:12.71
They can make right- the slogan,
00:15:12.71\00:15:14.74
they said if they have rights,
00:15:14.74\00:15:16.51
they have everything.
00:15:16.51\00:15:17.61
So if I say the evil,
00:15:17.61\00:15:19.08
it come from
00:15:19.08\00:15:20.55
confused identity.
00:15:20.55\00:15:22.28
So you fear and then you become
00:15:22.28\00:15:24.22
so prideful if you able to do
00:15:24.22\00:15:26.25
what succeed that you have.
00:15:26.25\00:15:28.32
>> So when you're living
00:15:28.32\00:15:29.52
that way, you're in total fear
00:15:29.52\00:15:31.26
all the time.
00:15:31.26\00:15:32.39
You're just like anything
00:15:32.39\00:15:34.56
could end your life
00:15:34.56\00:15:36.53
at any time.
00:15:36.53\00:15:37.80
[DR. LY] Any time.
00:15:37.80\00:15:38.67
If somebody mentioned your name,
00:15:38.67\00:15:40.00
call your name, it just stuck
00:15:40.00\00:15:42.34
you right where you-
00:15:42.34\00:15:43.27
You're gonna be killed now.
00:15:43.27\00:15:44.21
We're gonna catch you, they-
00:15:44.21\00:15:45.44
because you have seen that.
00:15:45.44\00:15:47.61
Sometime you're working around
00:15:47.61\00:15:49.31
and you call, they call
00:15:49.31\00:15:50.51
this name come up to see them.
00:15:50.51\00:15:53.15
They kill.
00:15:53.15\00:15:54.18
When we come back to eat at
00:15:54.18\00:15:55.55
lunch time, they are all killed.
00:15:55.55\00:15:57.22
One time my friend work with me,
00:15:57.22\00:15:59.12
we- he...
00:15:59.12\00:16:00.99
...he the one who dig
00:16:01.49\00:16:02.56
the ground and I take the,
00:16:02.56\00:16:03.96
I carry the ground to
00:16:03.96\00:16:05.66
fill the river.
00:16:05.66\00:16:07.13
And we take turns, right?
00:16:07.13\00:16:08.76
So while we doing that,
00:16:08.76\00:16:10.67
he's talking, he not dig
00:16:10.67\00:16:12.80
the ground to put the dirt
00:16:12.80\00:16:15.10
on my basket.
00:16:15.10\00:16:16.81
He's talking, you know, "I don't
00:16:16.81\00:16:18.31
want to live anymore,
00:16:18.31\00:16:19.47
we're so tired," you know,
00:16:19.47\00:16:20.78
this kind of thing.
00:16:20.78\00:16:22.24
But the Khmer Rouge saw him,
00:16:22.24\00:16:24.38
they came around and said,
00:16:24.38\00:16:25.38
"Why are you not working?"
00:16:25.38\00:16:27.28
And I keep telling my friend,
00:16:27.28\00:16:28.38
"Just keep doing that.
00:16:28.38\00:16:29.38
Even you talking,
00:16:29.38\00:16:30.42
just keep doing that."
00:16:30.42\00:16:31.82
He said, "I don't care anymore.
00:16:31.82\00:16:32.95
I can die today and who care?"
00:16:32.95\00:16:35.16
And then the Khmer Rouge
00:16:35.16\00:16:36.32
came in, they said, "Why are you
00:16:36.32\00:16:37.96
not doing the work?
00:16:37.96\00:16:39.06
Why you stop?
00:16:39.06\00:16:40.03
why are you talking?"
00:16:40.03\00:16:41.00
And he look at the
00:16:41.00\00:16:42.00
Khmer Rouge, he said,
00:16:42.00\00:16:43.43
"Why are you not working?
00:16:43.43\00:16:44.73
You just standing."
00:16:44.73\00:16:45.93
It's the wrong word to answer,
00:16:47.64\00:16:49.00
right, so he put, pull out
00:16:49.00\00:16:50.77
my stick that I carried
00:16:50.77\00:16:52.14
the bucket and
00:16:52.14\00:16:54.54
banged with him,
00:16:54.54\00:16:55.54
beat him right there,
00:16:55.54\00:16:56.58
tied him up.
00:16:56.58\00:16:58.58
And imagine I was standing there
00:16:58.58\00:17:00.72
with him and shaking like this.
00:17:00.72\00:17:03.32
I thought he gonna come back
00:17:03.32\00:17:04.59
to take me, too, because
00:17:04.59\00:17:07.29
I work together with my friend,
00:17:07.29\00:17:08.62
right?
00:17:08.62\00:17:09.86
But they didn't come back
00:17:09.86\00:17:11.13
because it's not my
00:17:11.13\00:17:12.86
responsibility.
00:17:12.86\00:17:13.76
I'm just waiting to be ready
00:17:13.76\00:17:14.96
to carry.
00:17:14.96\00:17:15.96
But he the one who had to
00:17:15.96\00:17:17.17
put the dirt on my...
00:17:17.17\00:17:18.43
...basket, right?
00:17:19.30\00:17:21.44
So when I came back
00:17:21.44\00:17:22.70
at lunchtime, they tell us that
00:17:22.70\00:17:25.34
anyone want clothes?
00:17:25.34\00:17:27.41
And they take the clothes
00:17:27.41\00:17:28.51
that my friend's clothes.
00:17:28.51\00:17:30.21
They all- before they kill,
00:17:30.21\00:17:31.51
they take the clothes out,
00:17:31.51\00:17:32.55
right, they give the clothes
00:17:32.55\00:17:33.55
to the people.
00:17:33.55\00:17:35.28
>> So, Dr. Ly,
00:17:35.28\00:17:37.42
anyone who
00:17:37.42\00:17:38.49
did not identify with
00:17:38.49\00:17:40.26
their worldview was an enemy
00:17:40.26\00:17:42.86
and they had to
00:17:42.86\00:17:43.86
exterminate them.
00:17:43.86\00:17:44.86
>> Yeah.
00:17:44.86\00:17:46.03
Because they thinking they are
00:17:46.03\00:17:47.40
the victim of the persecution
00:17:47.40\00:17:49.43
of the previous government.
00:17:49.43\00:17:51.27
So it kind of revenge
00:17:51.27\00:17:53.64
to kill the new people
00:17:53.64\00:17:55.67
or to persecute them,
00:17:55.67\00:17:57.84
to make them more hard living.
00:17:57.84\00:17:59.44
Right?
00:17:59.44\00:18:00.51
So when you do not have a clear,
00:18:01.38\00:18:03.88
do not know your identity,
00:18:03.88\00:18:05.35
you tend to fall into those
00:18:05.35\00:18:07.32
fear and pride and selfishness,
00:18:07.32\00:18:09.28
right?
00:18:09.28\00:18:10.52
So they tend to do the same.
00:18:10.52\00:18:12.39
Like for me, too, at that time,
00:18:12.39\00:18:14.92
I'm just fearful all the time
00:18:14.92\00:18:16.59
because I'm confused.
00:18:16.59\00:18:17.96
Who I am?
00:18:17.96\00:18:18.99
Why I'm second class
00:18:18.99\00:18:20.23
and this one is first class?
00:18:20.23\00:18:21.60
They have more right?
00:18:21.60\00:18:22.93
I have only porridge,
00:18:22.93\00:18:24.03
water, porridge.
00:18:24.03\00:18:25.90
So identity confusion
00:18:25.90\00:18:28.70
can create chaos,
00:18:28.70\00:18:30.24
that why we have...
00:18:30.24\00:18:31.64
And, you know, that's why
00:18:31.64\00:18:33.71
revenge and when you're
00:18:33.71\00:18:35.78
thinking that you are a victim,
00:18:35.78\00:18:36.98
you will fight back.
00:18:36.98\00:18:38.18
>> And that doesn't have to
00:18:38.18\00:18:38.91
just happen in Cambodia,
00:18:38.91\00:18:40.15
it can happen...
00:18:40.15\00:18:40.85
[DR. LY] Anywhere.
00:18:40.85\00:18:41.58
>> Here in Canada, anywhere
00:18:41.58\00:18:42.52
in the world where you see
00:18:42.52\00:18:43.82
that you're a victim,
00:18:43.82\00:18:44.89
where you see, and you wannna
00:18:44.89\00:18:45.99
get revenge, or you're in a
00:18:45.99\00:18:47.46
position of pride and you have
00:18:47.46\00:18:49.39
control over someone else
00:18:49.39\00:18:50.73
or whatever it is,
00:18:50.73\00:18:52.26
your differences
00:18:52.26\00:18:54.23
cause you to see other people
00:18:54.23\00:18:56.56
as an enemy.
00:18:56.56\00:18:57.37
[DR. LY] Yeah.
00:18:57.37\00:18:58.17
Because you're afraid the people
00:18:58.17\00:18:59.33
will take your, what you have.
00:18:59.33\00:19:01.34
[MIKE] Got ya.
00:19:01.34\00:19:02.07
>> Because, you know,
00:19:02.07\00:19:03.44
in the Bible talk about that,
00:19:03.44\00:19:04.67
those three things so clearly
00:19:04.67\00:19:05.94
with fear and pride
00:19:05.94\00:19:07.84
and selfishness when you're
00:19:07.84\00:19:09.28
not knowing that who you are,
00:19:09.28\00:19:11.78
why you exist here for,
00:19:11.78\00:19:13.75
you are thinking that I
00:19:13.75\00:19:14.82
have actually to gather power.
00:19:14.82\00:19:17.05
I gather thing.
00:19:17.05\00:19:17.95
That what they do.
00:19:17.95\00:19:19.19
So anyone feel, if they feel
00:19:19.19\00:19:21.16
threatened by someone,
00:19:21.16\00:19:22.16
they just kill them.
00:19:22.16\00:19:23.02
[MIKE] Yes.
00:19:23.02\00:19:23.66
So your true identity is what?
00:19:23.66\00:19:25.96
>> True identity is you are
00:19:25.96\00:19:26.76
>> True identity is you are
00:19:26.76\00:19:27.83
the creature that God create.
00:19:27.83\00:19:29.60
You are not God.
00:19:29.60\00:19:30.60
Because a lot of time people
00:19:30.60\00:19:32.07
during that time, they think
00:19:32.07\00:19:33.13
they are God like Pol Pot
00:19:33.13\00:19:34.54
and other leader.
00:19:34.54\00:19:35.94
They think everyone should
00:19:35.94\00:19:37.41
worship them, right?
00:19:37.41\00:19:39.07
So that problem, it exists
00:19:39.07\00:19:41.71
today in real world that
00:19:41.71\00:19:43.75
we live today here,
00:19:43.75\00:19:44.71
anywhere in the world.
00:19:44.71\00:19:46.25
Because when we confuse
00:19:46.25\00:19:47.48
our identity,
00:19:47.48\00:19:48.88
we're trying to be God.
00:19:48.88\00:19:50.09
That's why we're upset,
00:19:50.09\00:19:50.95
we're angry.
00:19:50.95\00:19:51.95
I do not want to be angry
00:19:51.95\00:19:53.29
with anybody because everyone
00:19:53.29\00:19:55.16
is a victim from the sin,
00:19:55.16\00:19:57.23
from the devil.
00:19:57.23\00:19:58.69
Yeah.
00:19:58.69\00:19:59.23
So that's why if we know God,
00:19:59.39\00:20:00.96
we can forgive each other,
00:20:00.96\00:20:02.26
we can love each other,
00:20:02.26\00:20:03.67
and we can sympathize to each
00:20:03.67\00:20:05.10
other because each one of us
00:20:05.10\00:20:07.00
are victim from the sin.
00:20:07.00\00:20:09.17
>> So, Dr. Ly, on top of
00:20:10.24\00:20:12.44
all this hard work that you're
00:20:12.44\00:20:13.84
experiencing, starvation...
00:20:13.84\00:20:16.21
...being very, very sick,
00:20:17.45\00:20:19.58
there was a time when you
00:20:19.58\00:20:20.82
lost your eyesight.
00:20:20.82\00:20:22.28
Can you tell us about that?
00:20:22.28\00:20:23.75
>> I remember that it, one day
00:20:23.75\00:20:26.39
I wake up and
00:20:26.39\00:20:28.72
go out to work,
00:20:28.72\00:20:29.99
I could not see because when
00:20:29.99\00:20:31.29
we go out to work,
00:20:31.29\00:20:32.33
it's before sunrise, the dawn.
00:20:32.33\00:20:34.00
Like, you can see the light up,
00:20:34.00\00:20:36.77
up on the tree,
00:20:36.77\00:20:38.17
the top on the tree.
00:20:38.17\00:20:39.37
But at the bottom, from the tree
00:20:39.37\00:20:40.77
down to the ground I cannot see.
00:20:40.77\00:20:42.50
It's dark.
00:20:42.50\00:20:44.04
So I walk in and I fall into
00:20:44.04\00:20:46.37
the, from the night,
00:20:46.37\00:20:48.78
fall into the water because
00:20:48.78\00:20:50.41
water cover all the ground.
00:20:50.41\00:20:52.15
And people are thinking,
00:20:53.01\00:20:53.95
laughing at me and said,
00:20:53.95\00:20:54.92
"Oh, what, you walk sleeping
00:20:54.92\00:20:57.39
or something?
00:20:57.39\00:20:58.35
That why you fell down?"
00:20:58.35\00:20:59.72
I said, "No, I cannot see."
00:20:59.72\00:21:00.89
They don't believe me.
00:21:00.89\00:21:01.92
"No, we can see you.
00:21:01.92\00:21:02.96
Why you cannot see?"
00:21:02.96\00:21:04.26
So I walk and fall down
00:21:04.26\00:21:05.66
walk, fell down
00:21:05.66\00:21:06.93
and get wet.
00:21:06.93\00:21:08.36
You know, who want to pretend
00:21:08.36\00:21:09.73
to be, cannot see, fall down
00:21:09.73\00:21:11.57
in the water at- before sunrise
00:21:11.57\00:21:14.47
and it cold, wind,
00:21:14.47\00:21:16.27
get wet, right away.
00:21:16.27\00:21:17.54
Nobody want to do that.
00:21:17.54\00:21:19.14
Later on, some of my friend
00:21:19.14\00:21:21.88
believe that and so they
00:21:21.88\00:21:23.71
hold my hand, said jump
00:21:23.71\00:21:25.78
from the dike.
00:21:25.78\00:21:26.82
Sometimes they break the dike
00:21:26.82\00:21:27.98
to let the water flow
00:21:27.98\00:21:29.22
so we had the jump from
00:21:29.22\00:21:30.32
the other side to the other.
00:21:30.32\00:21:32.42
So we kept-
00:21:32.42\00:21:33.59
And one time I was suffer for
00:21:33.59\00:21:35.92
I think a couple months
00:21:35.92\00:21:38.43
at least.
00:21:38.43\00:21:39.29
I don't remember, but
00:21:39.29\00:21:40.36
a couple months like that.
00:21:40.36\00:21:41.70
So I sometime when we eat
00:21:41.70\00:21:43.50
on the table and
00:21:43.50\00:21:45.73
because we come back,
00:21:45.73\00:21:46.77
it almost night already
00:21:46.77\00:21:49.14
and they play with me,
00:21:49.14\00:21:51.51
they take the food away,
00:21:51.51\00:21:52.61
you know, this kind of thing.
00:21:52.61\00:21:54.08
Anyway, but...
00:21:54.08\00:21:55.51
But one day, one of the
00:21:55.51\00:21:57.08
Khmer Rouge who cooking,
00:21:57.08\00:21:58.45
who cooked the food
00:21:58.45\00:21:59.75
because my people, people
00:21:59.75\00:22:01.42
like me, cannot allow to be
00:22:01.42\00:22:02.72
in the kitchen.
00:22:02.72\00:22:03.55
Only their people,
00:22:03.55\00:22:04.59
only the Khmer Rouge people,
00:22:04.59\00:22:05.82
right, cooking.
00:22:05.82\00:22:07.06
Lot of time they eat it first
00:22:07.06\00:22:08.92
and whatever left over,
00:22:08.92\00:22:09.96
the water that left,
00:22:09.96\00:22:11.16
that for us.
00:22:11.16\00:22:12.19
So that day, one of
00:22:12.19\00:22:14.20
Khmer Rouge,
00:22:14.20\00:22:15.20
he see my suffering.
00:22:15.20\00:22:16.67
So he pulled me to a side
00:22:16.67\00:22:18.67
from the group, "Come here,
00:22:18.67\00:22:20.67
come here," and then I go
00:22:20.67\00:22:21.70
with him.
00:22:21.70\00:22:22.60
He just give me a piece of
00:22:22.60\00:22:24.87
chicken liver.
00:22:24.87\00:22:26.54
Just small piece.
00:22:26.54\00:22:28.04
I would say this piece,
00:22:28.04\00:22:29.34
this much and said, "Take,
00:22:29.34\00:22:31.28
eat this."
00:22:31.28\00:22:32.31
"Oh, thank you," because never
00:22:32.31\00:22:34.05
have that for many, many,
00:22:34.05\00:22:37.02
almost 2 or 3 years already.
00:22:37.02\00:22:38.85
So I eat that.
00:22:38.85\00:22:40.62
The next day I wake up,
00:22:40.62\00:22:42.92
I can see again.
00:22:42.92\00:22:44.59
>> Wow. Did you ever feel like
00:22:44.59\00:22:46.03
giving up?
00:22:46.03\00:22:47.03
>> Many time.
00:22:47.03\00:22:48.53
Especially when one time
00:22:48.53\00:22:49.96
my friend was
00:22:49.96\00:22:51.93
hanging himself.
00:22:51.93\00:22:53.27
One of my friend hang himself.
00:22:53.27\00:22:55.20
We, because we talk
00:22:55.20\00:22:56.44
all the time.
00:22:56.44\00:22:58.21
Because they all complaining,
00:22:58.21\00:22:59.27
everyone complaining and said,
00:22:59.27\00:23:01.44
"Why we still try to live?
00:23:01.44\00:23:03.41
Because this suffering
00:23:03.41\00:23:04.71
never end."
00:23:04.71\00:23:05.88
But I keep telling them, I said,
00:23:05.88\00:23:07.55
"You don't know, tomorrow can be
00:23:07.55\00:23:09.32
different because you look
00:23:09.32\00:23:10.29
at the sunrise."
00:23:10.29\00:23:11.25
I always expect the sunrise
00:23:11.25\00:23:12.85
tomorrow gonna be
00:23:12.85\00:23:13.82
beautiful colour,
00:23:13.82\00:23:14.76
different from yesterday.
00:23:14.76\00:23:15.89
It never be the same."
00:23:15.89\00:23:17.49
So I tried to assure him.
00:23:17.49\00:23:19.09
But one night he, one day
00:23:19.09\00:23:20.90
he was hang and he died.
00:23:20.90\00:23:23.40
And a few days after that,
00:23:23.40\00:23:26.20
we were assigned to clear
00:23:26.20\00:23:27.80
the trunk of the tree.
00:23:27.80\00:23:29.67
So they just count one, two,
00:23:29.67\00:23:30.87
three, four, five, ten,
00:23:30.87\00:23:32.24
it yours.
00:23:32.24\00:23:33.24
They don't care big or small,
00:23:33.24\00:23:34.74
right?
00:23:34.74\00:23:35.41
Like what I'm saying, because
00:23:35.41\00:23:36.75
I'm choose obey and responsible
00:23:36.75\00:23:38.81
even nobody there, I'm still
00:23:38.81\00:23:40.22
doing the work.
00:23:40.22\00:23:41.65
So that day I remember
00:23:41.65\00:23:44.19
still grieving that my friend
00:23:44.19\00:23:45.62
was just die a few days ago,
00:23:45.62\00:23:47.89
I said, "I'm gonna, you know...
00:23:47.89\00:23:50.33
...it's no use to
00:23:51.03\00:23:52.06
fight with this."
00:23:52.06\00:23:53.36
So I look at- I look up
00:23:54.10\00:23:56.20
to the star and the moon that
00:23:56.20\00:23:58.03
shining already, said,
00:23:58.03\00:23:59.60
"You know, if there's a god,
00:23:59.60\00:24:01.80
you have to do something."
00:24:01.80\00:24:03.37
The Khmer Rouge in the bush,
00:24:03.37\00:24:04.87
he stand up from the bush.
00:24:04.87\00:24:07.08
He said, "Go to eat."
00:24:07.08\00:24:08.58
He watching me, I don't know
00:24:10.28\00:24:11.41
how long he watching me
00:24:11.41\00:24:12.71
in the bush, but he see
00:24:12.71\00:24:15.08
how I did.
00:24:15.08\00:24:16.65
That's why that Khmer Rouge,
00:24:16.65\00:24:17.79
that's the leader, the one that
00:24:17.79\00:24:18.95
sent me to hospital.
00:24:18.95\00:24:20.46
Yeah, because he have seen
00:24:20.46\00:24:21.56
how I work already.
00:24:21.56\00:24:23.36
So that night, from that night,
00:24:23.36\00:24:25.39
I was start thinking,
00:24:25.39\00:24:27.76
is there a god?
00:24:27.76\00:24:29.20
>> So, Dr. Ly, you are
00:24:29.20\00:24:31.87
filled with so much bitterness
00:24:31.87\00:24:34.00
and anger and you don't want to
00:24:34.00\00:24:36.74
live anymore.
00:24:36.74\00:24:37.87
How did you...
00:24:38.71\00:24:39.77
...how did you change?
00:24:40.18\00:24:41.34
Like, how did you even possibly
00:24:41.34\00:24:43.88
begin to heal from that?
00:24:43.88\00:24:45.51
>> It's a long story, but
00:24:46.31\00:24:47.95
I can give you a short one.
00:24:47.95\00:24:49.52
When I arrived in refugee camp,
00:24:49.52\00:24:51.45
that's when I met Jesus.
00:24:51.45\00:24:53.49
And then one pastor give me
00:24:53.49\00:24:55.19
the Bible, that's when I start
00:24:55.19\00:24:56.83
reading the Bible, begin to
00:24:56.83\00:24:58.56
understand all the suffering,
00:24:58.56\00:25:00.93
the answer to my suffering,
00:25:00.93\00:25:02.90
you know?
00:25:02.90\00:25:03.87
>> Dr. Ly, I wonder if you can
00:25:03.87\00:25:04.93
come back next week and share
00:25:04.93\00:25:06.84
your conversion story.
00:25:06.84\00:25:08.87
Because that is obviously
00:25:08.87\00:25:11.71
very intriguing.
00:25:11.71\00:25:12.94
And we look forward to that.
00:25:12.94\00:25:14.94
>> Dr. Ly, before we go,
00:25:14.94\00:25:16.48
I wonder if you could pray
00:25:16.48\00:25:17.95
for our viewers?
00:25:17.95\00:25:19.28
>> Sure, yeah.
00:25:19.28\00:25:20.08
I can do that.
00:25:20.08\00:25:21.02
Let's do that.
00:25:21.02\00:25:22.08
Oh, heavenly Father, Lord,
00:25:22.08\00:25:23.28
we thank You so much for
00:25:23.28\00:25:24.82
the privilege that we're able to
00:25:24.82\00:25:26.49
talk and sharing together
00:25:26.49\00:25:28.26
in this moment.
00:25:28.26\00:25:29.72
Lord, You have kept me alive
00:25:29.72\00:25:31.63
until now because You have
00:25:31.63\00:25:33.33
a purpose for those who
00:25:33.33\00:25:35.10
listening, who are watching
00:25:35.10\00:25:36.36
at this moment, Lord.
00:25:36.36\00:25:38.17
I just want to lift each one
00:25:38.17\00:25:39.53
of them up to You.
00:25:39.53\00:25:41.07
Some of them maybe go through
00:25:42.54\00:25:43.81
the same what I have
00:25:43.81\00:25:44.81
gone through in my life.
00:25:44.81\00:25:46.81
With the parent who drunk,
00:25:46.81\00:25:48.21
who abuse, or
00:25:48.21\00:25:51.01
sometimes they go through
00:25:51.01\00:25:52.15
some story like what
00:25:52.15\00:25:53.25
I have gone through, the abuse
00:25:53.25\00:25:54.62
of the leadership of the people.
00:25:54.62\00:25:57.05
Lord, I pray that You bless them
00:25:57.05\00:25:58.55
specially.
00:25:58.55\00:25:59.62
Do miracle in them.
00:25:59.62\00:26:00.99
Those who go through the dramas
00:26:00.99\00:26:03.69
and have the symptom a different
00:26:03.69\00:26:05.76
sickness, Lord, I pray that
00:26:05.76\00:26:07.10
You do the same
00:26:07.10\00:26:08.43
that You have done with me.
00:26:08.43\00:26:10.10
You have healed me.
00:26:10.10\00:26:11.40
So I pray that You bless
00:26:11.40\00:26:12.53
and heal them also.
00:26:12.53\00:26:14.14
And those who go through
00:26:14.14\00:26:15.17
difficulty and be their life,
00:26:15.17\00:26:16.30
Lord, grant them hope to know
00:26:16.30\00:26:18.04
that it's nothing impossible
00:26:18.04\00:26:19.44
for You to do because
00:26:19.44\00:26:20.71
for You to do because
00:26:20.71\00:26:21.74
You always hear.
00:26:21.74\00:26:23.04
So I pray that You open, reveal
00:26:23.04\00:26:25.41
to them, and as they open
00:26:25.41\00:26:26.98
their heart to You.
00:26:26.98\00:26:28.15
And we thank You for
00:26:28.15\00:26:29.08
Your love and Your grace
00:26:29.08\00:26:30.02
upon them.
00:26:30.02\00:26:30.82
We pray it in Jesus' name,
00:26:30.82\00:26:32.25
amen.
00:26:32.25\00:26:33.46
[calm music]
00:26:33.46\00:26:36.46
¤¤
00:26:36.46\00:26:39.46
>> Friends, as Dr. Ly confessed,
00:26:40.60\00:26:42.43
it was the message of the Bible,
00:26:42.43\00:26:44.83
God's Holy Word that changed
00:26:44.83\00:26:47.27
his life.
00:26:47.27\00:26:48.34
>> So we want to help you
00:26:48.84\00:26:50.41
to experience the
00:26:50.41\00:26:51.51
life transforming messages
00:26:51.51\00:26:53.38
of the Bible, help you
00:26:53.38\00:26:55.38
understand it and become wise
00:26:55.38\00:26:57.65
in your walk with God.
00:26:57.65\00:26:59.78
>> Our free offer is our
00:26:59.78\00:27:01.58
Bible study guides.
00:27:01.58\00:27:03.75
>> Our free Bible study guides
00:27:03.75\00:27:05.45
will help you to learn
00:27:05.45\00:27:07.26
what the Bible teaches
00:27:07.26\00:27:08.96
and how the Bible has verifiable
00:27:08.96\00:27:11.33
answers to life's existential
00:27:11.33\00:27:13.09
questions, including God's will
00:27:13.09\00:27:15.90
for your life.
00:27:15.90\00:27:17.03
[RENÉ] Practical answers that
00:27:17.03\00:27:18.57
make sense and will give you
00:27:18.57\00:27:20.40
assurance for the present
00:27:20.40\00:27:22.60
and the future.
00:27:22.60\00:27:24.24
>> Before you go, we would like
00:27:24.24\00:27:25.57
to thank all of you who have
00:27:25.57\00:27:27.14
supported the ministry of
00:27:27.14\00:27:28.34
It Is Written Canada
00:27:28.34\00:27:29.58
with your prayers and
00:27:29.58\00:27:30.98
financial contributions.
00:27:30.98\00:27:33.11
Without your support, this
00:27:33.11\00:27:34.78
television ministry could not
00:27:34.78\00:27:36.72
have reached so many people
00:27:36.72\00:27:38.79
for so many decades.
00:27:38.79\00:27:40.76
>> Yes.
00:27:40.76\00:27:41.62
Thank you.
00:27:41.62\00:27:42.69
And we would also like to invite
00:27:43.36\00:27:45.09
you to follow us on Instagram
00:27:45.09\00:27:47.20
and Facebook and subscribe
00:27:47.20\00:27:49.03
to our YouTube channel,
00:27:49.03\00:27:51.40
and also listen to our podcasts.
00:27:51.40\00:27:53.84
And if you go to our website,
00:27:55.00\00:27:57.21
you can see our latest programs.
00:27:57.21\00:27:59.57
>> Friends, to be honest,
00:28:00.41\00:28:02.21
Jesus is offering you a life
00:28:02.21\00:28:04.68
that is beyond our ongoing
00:28:04.68\00:28:07.28
struggles with pain, suffering,
00:28:07.28\00:28:09.78
and sorrows of this life.
00:28:09.78\00:28:12.19
We would like to recommend
00:28:12.95\00:28:15.16
that you open this book,
00:28:15.16\00:28:16.59
the Bible, where it is recorded
00:28:16.59\00:28:18.63
that Jesus Himself found
00:28:18.63\00:28:20.26
His assurance to defeat
00:28:20.26\00:28:22.06
the devil through the Word of
00:28:22.06\00:28:23.90
His Father when He declared...
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[uplifting music]
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[birds chirping]
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[uplifting music continues]
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¤¤
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